The Myth of Free Speech

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Күн бұрын

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@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

New Bespoke Post subscribers get 20% off their first box of awesome - go to bespokepost.com/wisecrack and enter code WISECRACK at checkout. Thanks to Bespoke Post for sponsoring!

@ryvyr 6 ай бұрын

Separating Telsa's objective benefit to world (I wish people would just stop the thoroughly debunked mass exploding and safety issues) from Elon, he especially frustrated because I can resonate with fellow aspie's cognitive process though many of his actions over past few years seem contemptable - including the "twitter is effectively the new townsquare (so let's further privatize and monetize it)" seizure of a large slice of global discourse.

@tubby1833 6 ай бұрын

Why did you change the title of the video?

@classicalmechanic8914 6 ай бұрын

This video proves freedom of speech is in danger. People in countries like China, Russia or North Korea do not have the right to free speech that is the reason why they are viewed as totalitarian states. It is lack of free speech that lead to totalitarian state, not the abundance of it. The author tries to convince the viewer that the reason democracy turns into tyranny is too much free speech based on one case from ancient Greece. He is unknowingly making an argument for totalitarianism based on too much free speech which is a huge logical fallacy. You cannot blame the consequence on the cause if the cause counters the consequence. Free market has always rewarded good ideas and rejected wrong ideas, because bad ideas did not work out long term. The problem is not with hate speech, because it is moderated and even free speech absolutists like Elon support moderation of hate speech. Problem is with the modern liberal world view of "We want free speech unless it contradict our narrative." which is exactly what communist parties in Russia, China and North Korea are doing to stay in power.

@ryvyr 6 ай бұрын

@@classicalmechanic8914 Do you suppose that there are additional qualifiers for those countries' circumstances apart from broad free speech?

@classicalmechanic8914 6 ай бұрын

@@ryvyr Of course there are other factors but free speech is the most essential for free society. If there is no free speech people cannot resist totalitarian regime, cannot organise protests against the regime, cannot criticize the regime without going to jail. This makes people afraid to express their opinion because it is against the opinion of the crowd around them. When you ask people about their opinion they will give different answers when they are alone and when they are in a group. Humans seek for approval rather than for truth because this is how evolution wired us to survive. Totalitarian regimes use these evolutional traits against people in order to make them obidient.

@jamalwest7658 6 ай бұрын

Show us on the doll where Outback Steakhouse hurt you

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

in the middle of the Bloomin' Onion

@Zahaqiel 6 ай бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU If it helps, Outback Steakhouse is not actually affiliated with the country of Australia, and Australians do not endorse it.

@SCPDrPrince 6 ай бұрын

pña😊@@Zahaqiel

@riverofpower5659 6 ай бұрын

Me with teary eyes: Points to the doll’s tummy and then points to the doll’s anus

@jamesterwilliger3176 6 ай бұрын

@@WisecrackEDUAustralian sex acts?

@MichaelSmith-rr7mo 6 ай бұрын

I may not like what the porn bot says but I will die to protect its freedom to say it

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

this is the way.

@MichaelSmith-rr7mo 6 ай бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU ASS IN BIO 💦💦💦🥵🥵🥵

@darlalathan6143 6 ай бұрын

Especially if it caters to my fetishes, lol!

@mooncalf191 6 ай бұрын

FREEDOM IN BIO!

@weatheranddarkness 6 ай бұрын

I think all of this comes down to the same reason debates are supposed to have moderators, camps have councillors, broadcasters have ombudsmen(people). It's not that freedom is the issue, it's that some level of mediation is almost always necessary when there are differences. It's why message boards invented the task of Moderator in the first place. You can't just let every discussion devolve into a flamewar, nobody benefits from that except the troll whose intent is to aggravate.

@stickdeck 6 ай бұрын

Great point

@andreww4751 6 ай бұрын

So you should just silence or ban whoever you deem a "troll" huh

@andreww4751 6 ай бұрын

So you think you should have in what is essentially a global town square have a daddy that just bans anyone who it deems "hateful" . Not Orwellian at all. And not easily abusable when you consider most people in power are corrupt and psychopaths. "You can't just let every discussion devolve into a flamewar" so you should control the discussions that all people have? The insanity of what i'm reading my god.

@lightupthedarkness6762 4 күн бұрын

Your error: "every discussion devolves into a flamewar"

@maestromarat6195 6 ай бұрын

Call me crazy but the philosophers and professors of Greek society saying that the philosophers and educated of society should rule might have an agenda with their opinions and maybe shouldn't be taken as doctrine.

@randyconrad4155 6 ай бұрын

That was a Plato thing. The concept of the philosopher king was first proposed by the Greek philosopher Plato in his dialogue, the Republic. It refers to a theoretical ruler who combines philosophical knowledge and temperament with political skill and power. So, like you're not wrong but you should read or like watch a couple KZbin videos more realistically, Plato's Republic. (Lmao, or this video. I answered before I got through more than a couple minutes)

@Wyvernnnn 6 ай бұрын

It clearly only works if the large majority of people have had an education

@AKen_Films 6 ай бұрын

Sure but when, at any point, in human history has there not been a leader that has ruled and made decisions based on their opinions or had an agenda with the power they where given?!

@rafaxd8178 6 ай бұрын

Indeed, Plato is the father of all tiranies

@Dug252 6 ай бұрын

The funny thing though is that most true philosophers would never want to lead according to Plato I believe, because they aren’t power hungry, they hunger for wisdom.

@mooncalf191 6 ай бұрын

Me, at title: wha? Me, at video: ah. Me, reading comments: HAhahaHAhahaha!

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

this is perfect.

@miabyte 6 ай бұрын

I read this in Tidus' voice.

@newb431 6 ай бұрын

@@WisecrackEDUeven funnier is how one sided your argument is

@mooncalf191 6 ай бұрын

@@newb431 You want him to argue multiple conflicting viewpoints, thereby saying absolutely nothing about anything? No thank you. You got a conflicting opinion, make your own video to balance this one out, my dude. Two sided arguments are for me in the cereal isle trying to choose between the frog one and the one Mikey likes. I'm glad to hear other's actual viewpoints, even when I disagree. Wasting time with mentioning every argument there is that conflicts your own would be dumb as hell, boring as crap, and two hours long. If your planning on writing a balanced, multiple-sided, well thought out essay on the topic, you could put it here in the comments for everyone to enjoy. I might even read it.

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

@@newb431 Sorry that you found it that way. I think at least in my mind, going back to ancient philosophy is a way to avoid contemporary dichotomies in culture. Especially as this is the tradition where most modern philosophical and political thought can trace its roots back to.

@tzgaming207 6 ай бұрын

As I get older, my present hang up with free speech is, what good is it, if there's no obligation or responsibility to truth & fact?

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

That's exactly what it's useful for. You gotta have people say outrageous crap so that the reasonable will tear it down. The problem isn't with the liar or fraudster, it's with the consumer of media. American students are discouraged from critical thinking or questioning authority, so many are susceptible to comforting lies. Thus the current power of the Republican party: their 40+ year assault on public education has led to red states filled with easily led voters with legitimate grievances (that can be blamed on politically convenient scapegoats.) Hope this helps, it's killing me.

@yol_n 6 ай бұрын

Who should be the arbiter to decide what's truthful and what's factual?

@tzgaming207 6 ай бұрын

@@yol_n I'm not saying there aren't issues with that standpoint, or that I have the answers, don't mistake me. What I will say, tho (& I don't mean that I think you're necessarily doing this, only that it follows the same pattern), is that your response is the tired, worn out, pat response of a conservative who regards the constitution & its amendments as infallible scripture, which eventually (typically) leads up to "you can't, you just need to let people say whatever they want in order to have 'true' freedom. So don't make any effort at all," because that's useful to the GOP (last bit is the quiet part said aloud). Unrestricted freedom of speech isn't defended by the Right for it's virtues, but for its capacity to sow confusion. So, do I have simple answers for complex questions? No, I do not, but I would caution against anyone who does. That's a red flag of a con job. I do believe those complex answers are out there, tho.

@xandercruz900 6 ай бұрын

@@tzgaming207 *worn out, pat response of a conservative who regards the constitutions & its amendments as infallible scripture* When you hear a prog use language like this, you NOW know why people so see them as that. Do you also feel the same about he 13th amendment, or just the two where people have the right to dissent and shoot back at the lefty-Fascism you secretly want to engage in?

@nathanielgarza9198 6 ай бұрын

@@tzgaming207 So although not perfect it allows an antagonist system where big brother and the little guys are in a big battle over placing legitimacy in their claims. Which usually involves actual objective evidence we have free speech as it is the greatest weapon against tyrants When we don’t have free speech big brother is gonna sow confusion like you said no consequences in order to make him look good

@josephfloyd4217 6 ай бұрын

Personally, I blame it all on Outback Steakhouse.

@Saint_nobody 6 ай бұрын

Wise choice. Would you want some of them blooming onions with that blame?

@CatchMeUp 6 ай бұрын

*has nothing whatsoever to do with Australia or Australian culture. We're still waiting for an apology.

@MisterTutor2010 6 ай бұрын

In the immortal words of Socrates: I drank what? :)

@chrisheist652 6 ай бұрын

Relax, it's just yogurt.

@jordanwaskelis4913 6 ай бұрын

Dude you win the day for that Real Genius reference.

@MrTheWeir 6 ай бұрын

Those who are interested in more on this topic, I highly recommend an older (pre-transition) Philosophy Tube video: "Brexit: What is Democracy?", in which Abigail describes the tensions inherent in democracy via references to the 2016 Brexit referendum and the movie "Arrival."

@ailo4x4 6 ай бұрын

I searched for your recommended video. It took me a minute to realise what you meant by (pre-transition) because I mistakenly thought I was still on Wisecrack, which is, after all, literally 'philosphy tube'. Then it clicked who Abigail is. Good recommendation, thanks!

@FacterinoCommenterino 6 ай бұрын

Today's Fact: In 2014, a man named Eric Garner died in New York City after being put in a chokehold by a police officer; years earlier, he had worked with the same officer to break up a fight in the same spot.

@lukidjano 6 ай бұрын

From choker to chokee

@zenleeparadise 6 ай бұрын

@@lukidjanothat's a completely inappropriate way to characterize this. He was a real person. He's dead. Have some respect. He did nothing wrong.

@MetallicReg 6 ай бұрын

@@zenleeparadiseWell no matter if he did something wrong - we kind of agree in the western countries, that the death penalty is obsolete and does not work in combination with human rights…. Oh sorry, it was in the US? Yea ignore that - does not extend to third world countries.

@zenleeparadise 6 ай бұрын

@@MetallicReg what are you even trying to say? This is incoherent gibberish that has nothing to do with the comment you're replying to.

@austinwitham109 6 ай бұрын

@@johnmclaughlin4802bullshit. Disproven and pathetic lie. Fucking hell how stupid do you have to be to believe this shit? Probably as worthless and stupid as you have to be to be a racist bootlicker

@GeraltofRivia22 5 ай бұрын

The entire concept of free speech exists to protect unpopular opinions. If you disagree, you don't believe in free speech, you believe in allowed speech.

@botanicalitus4194 5 ай бұрын

exactly. Its weird to me that a leftist of all people would be against it, since leftist ideas are often the underdog ideas and that free speech protects the most

@seanbrazell7095 6 ай бұрын

Let me dramatically simplify the issue: Garbage in, garbage out.

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

Yeah basically.

@Stryfe52 6 ай бұрын

Talking trash is always fun though

@LonkinPork 6 ай бұрын

"When you know that what you're saying is indefensible, all you can defend is your Right to say it." - paraphrased, but original author unknown

@samhwwg 6 ай бұрын

That sounds profound, but is actually completely garbage. Try saying that to the people who got rammed over by a tank in China because they fought for their rights to have a voice.

@LonkinPork 6 ай бұрын

@@samhwwg Context matters. Some people - i.e. most people that pay for Twitter - screech about their Free Speech solely because they don't like being called dumb when they say dumb shit.

@samhwwg 6 ай бұрын

@@LonkinPork Context does matter, but standards apply universally. If people say dumb things on the internet and face backlash from other internet users, fine. If the platform provider or the government steps in and say that this is unacceptable, then there’s a lurking danger. Free speech is very very very difficult to come by, but extremely easy to lose. I’m always for free speech for both side, provided that those are members of the public, not people in positions of power wielding the weapon of “misinformation” or “hate speech”.

@dejinn7765 6 ай бұрын

@sam: "If the platform provider or the government steps in..." - there's a huge difference between those 2 (the government vs a corporation that gives platforms). Free speech simply means the government cannot arrest or hurt you for saying what you want. By contrast the principle of free speech and free speech laws do not say that a corporation owes you a platform.

@xDCAxNexus 6 ай бұрын

Nice propaganda bud @@samhwwg and tell the civil rights movement how much free speech they has when they were (and are, it is not over) getting killed by both random citizens and the state in peaceful protests and direct action

@RodrigoBarbosaBR 6 ай бұрын

Jürgen Habermas is a philosopher that has some very good theories regarding speech and democracy. His discourse theory of democracy demands that everyone have equal communicative opportunities, and the only power allowed is the power of the best arguments. So the powered granted by the number of followers would not be allowed and would pollute democracy. Although it is virtually impossible to totally have the ideal speech situation, as defined by Habermas, it is a very good guide on what to safeguard against.

@matthewjohnson3656 6 ай бұрын

There are some problems with this: equal communicative opportunities is impossible to come by naturally because that would mean forcing people to listen to people they don’t want to or have no grounding. Imagine having to listen to a flat earther as if they are on the same level as a physicist? Also, people are able to use logical fallacies to communicate a false idea very quickly that takes far longer to debunk. There is the classic tactic of the “gishgallop” where a person shouts out a ton of arguments really fast with the presumption that if even a single one of these arguments stands- then the source is valid and right. But then it takes two hours answer 5 minutes worth of arguments, especially when the answers to these take huge foundational sources of knowledge to even understand. Equal communicative opportunities =\= equal powers of persuasion. People are not logical and are easily tricked and people know this and will take advantage.

@mjgould1192 6 ай бұрын

Who or what says what is the best argument? And whoever postures the best argument doesn’t actually mean it’s the best idea or concept. It would just be whoever is the best at argument and debate

@citizensnips2348 5 ай бұрын

Like you said, it's a good guide. An ideal doesn't have to be a goal or enforced with authority. The first problem I saw was that not everyone is equally capable or even able to argue critically. But we definitely need more proper discourse and less individual opinions.

@deletedaxiom6057 6 ай бұрын

"In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve" - Alexis de Tocqueville

@cmosarch5285 6 ай бұрын

Alexis de Tocqueville didn't say that.

@kennethquadra1644 6 ай бұрын

Nice joke

@Newton-Reuther 6 ай бұрын

"America isn't a democracy" -Every conservative 'free thinker'

@cmosarch5285 6 ай бұрын

@@Newton-Reuther MAGA folks say "America isn't a Democracy" because they haven't won the popular vote since Reagan. It's a modern thing. We're a representative democracy.

@cmosarch5285 6 ай бұрын

@@Newton-Reuther They say that because they haven't won the popular vote since Reagan.

@The_Infinite_Squirrel 6 ай бұрын

I don't agree with some of your conclusions, but you have the absolute right to express them.

@kellanaldous7092 6 ай бұрын

What better way to enjoy the outdoors than to buy a box of crap. Right...

@soufian2733 6 ай бұрын

I feel like we don’t mention enough how Elon’s idea that "free speech should only be restrained by law" doesn’t consider how different those laws are around the world and how easily mutable they are

@RockerTopper-hh3ru 6 ай бұрын

Easy solution, US tech platforms should enforce First Amendment speech norms globally and tell any countries that object because “mUh cEnSoRsHiP” to get stuffed. The American conception of freedom of speech as succinctly enshrined in the First Amendment and upheld by almost 250 years of legal precedent is truly one of this country’s greatest contributions to the betterment of the human condition.

@Petard01 6 ай бұрын

@@RockerTopper-hh3ru American exceptionalism in full display.

@cancerino666 6 ай бұрын

@@RockerTopper-hh3ruSo you are saying your american vote counts, but what people vote around the world doesn't? Spoken like a true fascist, it's your way or the highway.

@zoomingby 6 ай бұрын

It's cute that you think he cares about the adverse affects of things he deems important.

@dialecticalmonist3405 6 ай бұрын

@@Petard01If you don't believe in free speech, you have a garbage country and deserve to be dominated.

@Valzack 6 ай бұрын

This channel really went downhill.

@W-W-W-616 6 ай бұрын

Is the background music making you puke too? Irritating af.

@PizzaForkCooking 6 ай бұрын

My dude over here dead naming X like that.

@cmosarch5285 6 ай бұрын

😂

@andrewbenbow9257 6 ай бұрын

Ahhh... 'corporations are people my friend'.

@Rbedwards94 6 ай бұрын

His mama named him Twitter so that's what imma call him

@chloemchll3774 6 ай бұрын

Hey look… he’s called it “Twitter” for years and it’s hard for old people to change the habits they’ve had their whole lives…

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

With intention!

@omino23 6 ай бұрын

Its too bad that this youtube channel isn't worth subscribing to anymore. Waste of time.

@JazzyJonas 6 ай бұрын

Free speech is cool, but have you ever tried empathy?

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

We're adults, how about we do both? I vote empathy first, it should lead to less free speech problems.

@JazzyJonas 6 ай бұрын

@@NWPaul72 ⬆ This guy gets it.

@Stryfe52 6 ай бұрын

Wish more people had it

@Vontiri 6 ай бұрын

Understanding why people are drawn to ghoulish rhetoric isn't the same as allowing the rhetoric to flourish unchecked. Empathy is separate from pushing back. You do not have to give an inch, under any circumstances, to the rhetoric of racists, authoritarians, zealots and bigots.

@JazzyJonas 6 ай бұрын

@@Vontiri Ah, militant empathy lol No, I agree.

@YantisOm 6 ай бұрын

I was champing at the bit to fire back about this ridiculous misrepresentation of free speech absolutism, but then realized if i comment it will only strengthen engagement and make people think this video is worthy of debate! You're not going to get me that easily, Wisecrack! 😅

@singleflow 6 ай бұрын

I love how the defense against free speech is always about being able to say racist things. It's key to being able to speak freely to power. For instance, in America we can say our president looks like Winnie the Pooh without repercussions.

@Preetvnd 6 ай бұрын

People like Elon Musk and other techbros are cosplaying the roles of a philosopher, critical thinkers etc, because we as a society are beginning to realize the importance of humanities in the age of post-truth, also money is being made in the market place of ideas. They want their cut. But, the thing is these tech bros dont have a clue about how to do philosophy, or understand epistemology, sociology, psychology etc. So they end up looking like fools when they talk about these subjects. To them its all "woke' DEI' 'CRT' etc.

@lucascoval828 3 ай бұрын

Those three deserve their hate.

@SoylentSystem 6 ай бұрын

You have my support when the position of philosopher king opens up

@TopMusicChartsChannel 6 ай бұрын

His perspective is valid but it is incorrect. The correct logic will always trump flawed logic. Yes there are persuasive tactics but there will always be a way to expose them with logic just as he is attempting to do in this video. If someone is getting attention for crazy beliefs but they can defend their crazy beliefs when confronted in a debate, then most likely it isn't crazy. It could still be wrong but not crazy. Eventually over time if you keep debating them you will reach a logical dead end where they admit to being wrong and this applies to both sides. No one person will be 100% correct, so the only way is to try and search for the truth in perspectives other than your own. This is what makes free speech so important.

@derekkellogg8414 6 ай бұрын

@@TopMusicChartsChannel I mean, there are tons of studies across a variety of disciplines that directly contradict you. People who have 'crazy ideas' don't change those ideas no matter what or how many logical arguments are made. That just isn't how people behave, especially online. Also, 'free speech' is a reference to a legal right whose intent is to prevent authoritarianism. Trying to apply it to epistemology is a misapplication of the term's context.

@TopMusicChartsChannel 6 ай бұрын

@@derekkellogg8414 There is a distinction between followers and leaders. It's harder to change minds of followers, and more impactful to change minds of opinion leaders. And yes it is possible for people to be convinced through logical arguments. It's worrying to me that people can't see this. It's either debate or war. No communication

@JaceDeanLove 6 ай бұрын

@@TopMusicChartsChannel that's generally true, but if someone doesn't reach a belief using logic, logic can't change their mind

@maxamps45 6 ай бұрын

if speech isn't important to you, why censor them?

@Crazy_Diamond_75 6 ай бұрын

If speech _is_ important, why do so many use it irresponsibly?

@maxamps45 6 ай бұрын

@@Crazy_Diamond_75 hurt feelings is not valid

@MmKayUltra1 6 ай бұрын

I can only call my congressman (congress member?) And tell them that i don't want US arms to be given to countries that violate human rights because of free speech. I wish it worked better tho

@Sephiroth144 6 ай бұрын

I think Congressperson is the gender neutral term- though to be fair, "Congressman" tends to be factually correct more times than not.

@DickEnchilada 6 ай бұрын

@@Sephiroth144 gender neutrality is a spook

@MmKayUltra1 6 ай бұрын

@@Sephiroth144 if using the gender neutral form is somehow more cumbersome than the word congressman maybe woke has indeed gone too far.

@Sephiroth144 6 ай бұрын

@@MmKayUltra1 Referring specifically to the "congress member question mark" part; and the term Congressperson has been around long before some people got scared of and other people got excited by the word woke.

@catsmom129 6 ай бұрын

@@MmKayUltra1”Let’s judge the wisdom of ideas by how many syllables they have.” Um, no

@originaldarkwater 6 ай бұрын

Your biases in this video are very clear, which brings us to the age old question of regulating speech. Who exactly in in charge of what is deemed "worthy" speech or not? Of course Plato thought it should be philosopher-kings, because he was a philosopher. I'm sure you think that yourself and people who think like you would be the perfect ones to be in charge today. But it's clear that your idea of what constitutes fascism is pretty broad, to say the least. And yet, the idea that COVID started in a Wuhan lab came from such sources and was viciously denounced by "reasonable" people such as you think yourself to be for two years before CIA investigations turned it into the theory thought to be the most likely actual cause. Obviously Musk and other Tech giants think THEY should be in charge, but that's not it, either. (Musk's claims to being a free speech absolutist notwithstanding, he's had Tweets that are critical of him deleted off the platform in the past). So who is the arbiter of worthy speech? How can we come to a fair and balanced decision, there?

@SergioLopezPaco 6 ай бұрын

“Build a society with healthy speech” seems very much an euphemism for “controlled speech” because it’s impossible to agree on what healthy means. I miss Jared…

@danrandlehandle 6 ай бұрын

How bout don’t spread hate towards marginalised community’s

@ericburns469 6 ай бұрын

Two things of note: 1. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence. 2. The Paradox of Tolerance is something we should all familiarize ourselves with.

@yol_n 6 ай бұрын

I literally hear the paradox of tolerance everytime a leftist talks about elon. It's theirprogrammed NPC response.

@chebghobbi 6 ай бұрын

@@yol_nMaybe because it's a good argument?

@ericburns469 6 ай бұрын

@@yol_n But the real question is, do you understand it? You can disagree with the idea, but I’d love to hear a counterpoint if you have one.

@billyalarie929 6 ай бұрын

@@yol_n…..what exactly do you think this is? Wait. Are you lost? Do you need an adult?

@billyalarie929 6 ай бұрын

@@yol_nare you saying it’s NOT okay to want to curb your Elon like I’m in American History X whenever he opens his mouth about anything, at all, ever? I should be okay with him when he spews hatred so appalling that no human being should be allowed to roam in society with the attitudes and beliefs he arms himself with? Because you’re wrong.

@mr.jayjay2401 6 ай бұрын

Is this a breadtube channel now?

@varckk 6 ай бұрын

Yes, yes it is

@marnenotmarnie259 6 ай бұрын

was it not one before?

@Jawshuah 6 ай бұрын

Always has been

@Ford_prefect_42 6 ай бұрын

This was written by Henry after having to deal with that live stream comment section

@ethanwarren5258 6 ай бұрын

Speaking as a left-libertarian, this video is the single best example of the absolute contempt of the leftist intelligentsia for regular people I have ever seen. Democracy is not simply one idea for how to create a just society, it is the only just society which can exist. For I believe that any state which imposes laws on individuals who do not have a say in the policies of that state is fundamentally illegitimate.

@iExploder 6 ай бұрын

Define a regular person.

@Crazy_Diamond_75 6 ай бұрын

@@iExploder Why? They never used that phrase.

@RDAalltheway 6 ай бұрын

What a controversial title 😮

@davidhochstetler4068 6 ай бұрын

Anddddd it’s changed

@JohnaldV 6 ай бұрын

@@davidhochstetler4068What was it originally?

@davidhochstetler4068 6 ай бұрын

@@JohnaldV why free speech hurts democracy

@harley-owo 6 ай бұрын

Let Gina back on the Mandalorian and make her character a trans woman tbh. I don't know who wins from that compromise but it would be extremely funny.

@lucascoval828 3 ай бұрын

Pedro allowed back?

@WarrenPeaceOG 6 ай бұрын

I'm still impressed by Marshall McLuhan suggesting electronic media would shift us from a literate, visual culture back to an oral culture. I think all forms of televisual communication should most likely take the form and format of a zoom call, whether it's the product, or the marketing, or the finance meeting - everything is a zoom call. Everything is conversational. Free speech today is more like the freedom to shout a one liner across the bar than to revise our traditional moral framework in a written treatise

@johngaunce 6 ай бұрын

Being a _________ absolutist seems to be almost always misled at best. Ignoring all context in favor of a pre-determined principle seems to pretty consistently lead to problematic stances and the inability to engage in good faith dialogue.

@alexpkeaton4471 6 ай бұрын

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes." Obi-Wan stated absolutely.

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

There's two kinds of people in this world: those who believe there are two types of people and those who know better.

@ughh5050 6 ай бұрын

I am an in actual Awe and shock that this guy who I used to love watching and listening to is actually advocating against free speech. Moderation is censorship, because ultimately someone is deciding what needs to be moderated and what doesn't. there is no answer that doesn't exist in tension around this subject. As an American though, a persons right to feel comfortable does not exceed my right to free speech and that is the way it should be.

@catsmom129 6 ай бұрын

Context matters. A private group or forum can decide what their purpose is. They can say our house our rules. You’re still free to express yourself outside of that group. But if you come into a feminist club saying all women are evil, they have a right to kick you out. When it comes to large social media companies, I generally think it’s better to combat misinformation by pairing it with other information or context. Like when KZbin adds a link to the CDC on anything involving COVID. It’s not stopping free speech; it’s just letting people know that the information is contested, or not shared by mainstream science, or what have you.

@nates9105 6 ай бұрын

Right but just because you speak doesnt mean it has value or is reasonable.

@Crazy_Diamond_75 6 ай бұрын

So if you were to go around accusing minorities of going after women and children without any evidence to back you up, that should be perfectly okay?

@FeiFongWang 5 ай бұрын

Free speech doesn't work when the populace isn't educated sufficiently, and the US certainly isn't. It just serves to sow more confusion and falsehoods.

@chrispitchforth621 6 ай бұрын

Disney should bring Gina back, but make her character trans. Tell Gina she needs to live with trans women so she understands the role.

@magdielchavez9399 6 ай бұрын

The amount of censure is proportionally inverse to the community's criteria. If ideas that may be "controversial" are censored, it means that we belittle the audience; and even more worrying, who is the one who decides what is correct and what is not.

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

You can't know. You have to just try, then negotiate the consequences.

@grasshopper1153 6 ай бұрын

We are both the prisoners AND the guards

@AroundTheBlockAgain 3 ай бұрын

Cool comment bro, but we have to establish things like human rights (bodily autonomy, freedom of movement, freedom to peacefully assemble, protection from bigotry, protection from arbitrary deprivation of property, a right to a fair trial, innocent until proven guilty, right to seek asylum in a foreign state, etc) are not up for "controversial debate". That's why most of us decided that they're called human rights, after all. And yet when people bring up "controversial debates", it usually involves violating one or more of these.

@ashvio 6 ай бұрын

Funny seeing all these comments who clearly never watched the video. I guess the clickbaity title did too good a job.

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

It's very funny. As many of them are mad at things that don't even come up in the video.

@xandercruz900 6 ай бұрын

Judging how many people saw the title and are like "yeah! Free speech is stupid and we need to censor it", the clickbait worked in the wrong direction.

@ashvio 6 ай бұрын

@@xandercruz900 That's what I'm saying. The point of the clickbait is to drive engagement. People getting mad and commenting only boosts the video in the algorithm lol

@commentputter5283 6 ай бұрын

i, on the other hand, caught every outback steakhouse reference

@rand0mletters1 6 ай бұрын

@@ashvioit’s reasonable to dislike this video because it’s trash. Free speech isn’t something that the powerful lend to the masses like Elon Musk or any other technocrat. Free speech is a right that has to be protected from authoritarians that want control over acceptable speech. The central problem to solve isn’t democracy, free speech etc. it’s authoritarianism - which Plato felt grew naturally out of democracy. Which is why today we are a republic and not a democracy. However the challenge of this video that free speech is ‘bad for democracy’ is a severe bastardization of Plato - especially considering the section used in this video is about Socrates execution which happened as a result of his lack of free speech. It’s a tragic scene, authoritarians usurped power and when they couldn’t constrain the Socrates from saying what he wanted, they put him to death. Plato was upset that in democracy anyone could get power, not that speech lead to authoritarians….

@maxmillianwiegel1643 6 ай бұрын

How well did those places which abandoned free speech do? Oh wait, I know! My family’s from one! It was awful. Maybe you might want to talk to with the residents of Cuba, Eastern Europe, China, Vietnam, and the billions of people who share my family’s experience is from. But nah, that’s too much for you.

@HaNguyen-ri2sx 2 ай бұрын

I'm Vietnamese, what do you mean places like Vietnam abandoned free speech? Because that's simply not my experience at all.

@roscojenkins7451 6 ай бұрын

The biggest problem i see (in america at least) is that the average person is shut out of the political governance of of our nation. The only answer ever given to us is to vote... But we only get to vote for one of two corporate backed lobbyist owned political parties. Its created an election cycle that makes people vote AGAINST the candidate they hate more... We are held hostage by the status quo... We the people are pitted against eachother in the sake of keeping us separated and more easily controlled by the corporate class

@Scowleasy 6 ай бұрын

Lmao you do realize there are other elections outside of the president? And that voting is just the bare minimum you should be doing to be involved? Honestly, “I’m a gigantic baby that does nothing and complains about everything” is one of the most annoying types of people.

@rand0mletters1 6 ай бұрын

You drank the koolaid. Go outside look around. See everything - that’s your community where you live. That’s where your political power is. Get involved in civics close to home, where your opinion will actually matter. This is a republic, your presidential vote is actually the least important.

@roscojenkins7451 6 ай бұрын

@@rand0mletters1 i wasn't just talking about presidential vote. I'm fully aware I live in a local community and could potentially make my voice heard here... I feel like you completely missed what I was saying. My community has an almost non existent say in state or federal matters. You say I drank the Kool aid... When what I'm saying is so many HAVE drunken the Kool aid in fighting over which corporate backed political party candidate they'll vote against... Regardless of it being governor or state representative or congressman or president. Very few truly vote FOR any candidate. Most vote for the lesser of two evils. They know they won't have any representation but feel it'll be slightly worse if they vote for the other candidate... Democracy is a sham when the only ones guaranteed to win are fully owned and controlled by billionaires, corporate interests and even foreign governments. So no I didn't drink the Kool aid... I opened my eyes and looked at reality in front of my face

@rand0mletters1 6 ай бұрын

@@roscojenkins7451 you did. Think of America as an organism rotting from the inside out, the rot started with the American people. Americans are rotten. We buy things on credit we don’t need, we waste away hours watching reality television. How can I be mad at these billionaire technocrats when we gave them all our money and on credit! Imagine your body has sepsis and you’re beginning to see necrosis build as we are seeing in this country. Can you fix necrosis with a topical ointment? Does replacing the rotting leg remove the sepsis? No you have get antiobiotics flowing through the whole blood system. America flows upward, your community decides who represents your state, which decides who represents you federally which decides yadda yadda. Where do you think these politicians come from? They start at the state level. A future president is likely right now in a state congress. You aren’t vetting those people and you are surprised when the chaff drifts to the top when you never separated it from the wheat?

@darlalathan6143 6 ай бұрын

Very insightful!

@georgechyz 26 күн бұрын

The importance of free speech is not based on the value or accuracy of what is said, on the contrary, free speech is important because it gives people a way to verbally fight against totalitarian rule without having to resort to a physical revolution. Certainly censorship is an essential ingredient needed to successfully form a totalitarian dictatorship. That's why our first president, George Washington warned, "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

@Blue2x2x 6 ай бұрын

I feel Freespeech done a lot of good than bad. Without Freespeech, a lot of progressive changes we taken to granted wouldn't happen as fast aswe have right now. Feminism, Race relations, LGBTQ rights, would still be extremely censored because it disrupts the status quo by traditionally religious society. And i fear that if freespeech gets removed, how long will we able to retain the rights and freedoms we gained over the years. Like how RvW got overturned a couple of years ago. How would women get that right for abortion back? If feminism gets censored and Freespeech isn't there to uncensored it, it would be impossible and would be easier to just accept that right is gone. Freespeech is a 2-way street. Someone can scream out anti and hateful things, but also someone with the same right can scream out pro and supportive thing to counter the hateful speech. Resorting to censorship is leaving the opportunity to have the supportive stiff censored while the hateful speech run free. It takes a political document to change everything. I rather be called hateful names and able to keep my rights and freedoms, than having a chance that it get sripped away without a way to fight it.

@El_Rey_247 6 ай бұрын

I imagine lots of the dislikes are just from the title. "Was Free Speech A Mistake?" is an _incredibly_ bold choice. Personally, I would have taken it in a more political science direction, and how "free speech" isn't real. Rather, places that have "free speech" are constantly chipping away at what is "free", and places that have "protected speech" add to that definition what speech must be "protected". Personally, I think the latter is more useful for a society, since it makes people think about what deserves to be protected. The alternative, in a "free speech" space would be to make it more obvious what "punishable speech" is, and talk about speech in those terms. I think that could work, but that's not the experience I have had discussing speech. When "free speech" is your baseline, it can feel sacrilegious to mark _any_ speech as being unworthy of protection.

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

Yeah not a bad note. Looking like the title is putting lots of folks off. And I think your point is good, so if we change the title to something like that, thanks!

@Okgeneric 6 ай бұрын

As someone that supposedly reads philosophy it's mind bogglingly scary how you can't recognize the importance of the negative right to free speech. It isn't really as important about what you can and cannot say, what is allowed is always "good" according to your bondage: moderation constructs normativity, there is always a haunted negative of the normal that enchants formally well produced speech. The idea that you can just start "moderating" speech and that you have the audacity to trust some future abstract central governing authority...truly terrifying, stop harming the world and its truth with your criminal propaganda kthxbai

@Anti-CommunistCommunitarian 6 ай бұрын

He never said that there needs to be a central governing authority to regulate speech. There are other methods by which speech can be regulated. Furthermore, currently, speech is already constantly being regulated by multiple different people and organizations. For example, social media algorithms are shaping speech by encouraging certain kinds of speech over others.

@Okgeneric 6 ай бұрын

@@Anti-CommunistCommunitarian speech is already being governed by multiple entities. how is that going so far

@holynightwingfan4510 6 ай бұрын

As a braziliam who has seen the bad of both dicatorship and democracy: although free speech could be misused by uneducated or greedy individuals it's still far better to reserve that as an individual right than delivering it on a golden plate for a group of selected politicians that won't necessarily view their own people wellbeing in the first place, especially if they are corrupted, which unfortunately all of them are, being they more or less in some countries. This subject becomes even more fragile if we take how people are more sensitive nowdays and ruining people's lives out of simple misunderstandings. Free speech should be viewed as a right that comes with its good and bad sides. Even so, free speech in any country doesn't mean you can simply say anything without paying the price for it, that's why suing and arresting are there for. You are even free to steal and kill, but you are also responsible for carrying the consequences of your actions. The same is applied for your speech.

@lapearl521 6 ай бұрын

This comment is worth more than the video.

@rbgerald2469 6 ай бұрын

Free speech doesn't mean freedom from societal consequences

@holynightwingfan4510 5 ай бұрын

Thanks! I'm seeing this trend in USA trash talking free speech and these ppl don't have ANY idea of the negative consequences that could bring.

@holynightwingfan4510 5 ай бұрын

Exactly, but according to Wisecrack that's not the case and free speech should be controlled by a selected group of people.

@FrankJeeves 6 ай бұрын

Banning hate speech bans the abilty to know when the conditions of life can lead to people hating other groups so you never correct for those eras. Such as over favoring a group of people to the point they enact violence against others simple because they belong to a group. The presupposition of banning and curtailing speech is one persons sense of justice looks like to another just power hungry greed. People are far to willing to ascribe psychopathic tendencies to their opponents rather then genuinely felt sense of justice. In Jonthan Haidts examination of morality he found that left people only exhibit 2 morals where as Right exhibit 5 morals. The left cant fathom moral impulses of the right and ascribe selfishness to the right cause it does value anything the right values. And the right sees the left as either stupid or morally insufficient. Also nobody thinks their side has bad actors. The reality is all sides do and that is the game we play.

@Ford_prefect_42 6 ай бұрын

I'm so glad I'm not on social media anymore. KZbin is literally my only "social media" account and i mainly use it to watch cats

@Stryfe52 6 ай бұрын

Social media can be good if you’re just chatting with people or enjoying yourself, but otherwise yeah; 100% better to cut that shit off.

@Ford_prefect_42 6 ай бұрын

@@Stryfe52 I was on Facebook for that reason until the algorithm changed and all I saw were ads and posts for groups I wasn't a part of. I felt like the only thing Facebook wanted me to see were inflammatory posts from content farm pages. I hope it's changed. I do miss talking to my friends and seeing what they're up to. Not as many people text back but just about everyone would respond to a comment

@seanrevelle554 6 ай бұрын

@Ford_prefect_42 I just wanted to tell you that your KZbin name is awesome not sure if that is the right term but I have no idea what else to call it

@thejuiceking2219 6 ай бұрын

then how did you end up here?

@Ford_prefect_42 6 ай бұрын

@@thejuiceking2219 I said mainly for cats. Not exclusively. Though if wisecrack had cats this channel would be 80% more awesome

@jayashland4892 6 ай бұрын

@WisecrackEDU -- Your videos would be so much more interesting if you explored BOTH sides of the conversation. Anyone can make a video showcasing the flaws of capitalism, free speech, social media etc. Boring. Grapple with the many trade-offs that come with restricting speech, and why so many people feel that free speech is essential DESPITE the tradeoffs. Or is that just a massive blind-spot for you?

@jayashland4892 6 ай бұрын

@@Crabzula Yep.

@jayashland4892 6 ай бұрын

Also maybe give X credit for having open-soured the algorithm that curates your recommendations page -- and Musk frequently recommends using the chronological timeline to avoid algorithm bias. X is the only social media company I see taking steps to combat the shortcomings you point to in this video.

@saraidempsey3152 6 ай бұрын

In the add when you mentioned the "firestarter" I was lowkey kinda sad when you didn't make a prodigy joke.... I'm old lol

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

Ugh I really wanted to, but we assumed the sponsor probably didn't want us playing a clip of that music video.

@saraidempsey3152 6 ай бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU very understandable. I feel better knowing it crossed your mind 😂

@Stryfe52 6 ай бұрын

I’m the fire starter, twisted fire starter… ohh, ohh.

@catsmom129 6 ай бұрын

You mean child prodigy Drew Barrymore? Cuz she was the definitive firestarter. You may be old, but I may be older. 😂

@saraidempsey3152 6 ай бұрын

@@catsmom129 bahahaha okay... I stand corrected. Well played 😂🤣

@Touhou20246 6 ай бұрын

Oh I get now start a #payteachersmore and also start a #defundthemilitaryallovertheworld

@JacobBe5 6 ай бұрын

"Was Free Speech A Mistake?" Ahh, good ol Betteridge's law of headlines "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."

@dibadu234 6 ай бұрын

"which of these politicians stands up for baby seals?" "no"

@darkhobo 6 ай бұрын

@@dibadu234still true tho

@amberallen7809 6 ай бұрын

Maybe it's because our environment doesn't encourage it, but I'm realizing more and more when I talk to people IRL that a huge chunk of people just absolutely don't care to talk and think about topics more important than their next trip or the latest celebrity gossip or whatever. They agree that things are bad and getting worse, but they're content to post about their dissatisfaction on their chosen platform whenever they need to blow off steam, then immediately go back to whatever the latest tik tok trend is, and cite this belief that 'someone' will figure it out and it'll all be ok eventually. People have told me they would rather wait for someone else to figure it out than to engage with any idea/ problem themselves. The social internet has been the absolute worst thing for social and political engagement. Yes, movements like BLM spread because of social media, but they fizzle out just as quickly as they arise with little to no lasting impact, because too many people see posting stuff on social media as a greater form of activism than it really is. Social media has its place in social activism, but only as a tertiary tool, not as a primary means of carrying it out. Everyone shouting into the digital void is exactly what the tech oligarchy wants. It takes energy that could be directed at changing things (which would disrupt their power) and makes it basically harmless. Even better for them, it makes them money.

@heydude4193 6 ай бұрын

Constructive feedback: holy hell turn the music down

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

good note and we'll look into it.

@gabrielbarraza3432 6 ай бұрын

I am not built for social media. While I have my opinions and may say some controversial things and have strong opinions, I also have genuine curiosity and value discussion. I don't like, and don't want to engage in clickbait and engagement as commodity.

@jamesburrows3602 6 ай бұрын

Awesome Love this one keep up the great work! Do a philosophy of George Carlin Video please!

@chrisheist652 6 ай бұрын

Carlin supported free speech.

@SageWon-1aussie 6 ай бұрын

One of the few channels where the online discussion is as interesting as the video. Cheers!

@spicymickfool 6 ай бұрын

If a robust case for Free Speech were made loudly and continuously in a public forum so as to drown out all other speech, or repeatedly cut and pasted into a forum online, those drowned out have no free speech. On the other hand, if the Free Speech advocate is stopped, is his freedom compromised? A solution might be to let everyone have their say in turns.

@Crazy_Diamond_75 6 ай бұрын

Round Robin Speech.

@thisdudegotreal 6 ай бұрын

Having to explain the obvious to modern day baby brains. I can see why you been getting spicy with it. Its almost as tho people are misrepresenting the 1st amendment on purpose

@Sardonicus 6 ай бұрын

I only just started the vid but two quotes immediately come to mind. One is your boy Kierkegaard, and I am paraphrasing these from memory but "people demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use", and I forgot who said this other but it was someone like Thoreau or Emerson, but "democracy trades rule by the corrupt few for rule by the ignorant many".

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

Oh those are great thanks for sharing.

@TDrudley 6 ай бұрын

Freedom of thought is something that can't be taken away, luckily, but that thought is useless if you can't share it with others.

@michaelodonnell824 6 ай бұрын

As a European Citizen who visited the US in the early 2000s, I was amazed at the the lack of limits available under US "Free Speech". Incitement to Violence; Hate Speech, even Defamation are all defensible under US Free Speech beliefs. But the problem is that, while the old saying is that "Jaw, Jaw is better than War, War", as we Europeans discovered, to our cost, Jaw, Jaw ALWAYS precedes War, War; or atrocities, or Demonization and always it precedes Death Camps. Hitler came to prominence, not because of his Military record, but because of his ability to speak; likewise Mussolini. Of course, the irony is that once an Autocrat gets their hands on the levers of power, their first actions inevitably limit free speech - but without free speech, a democracy can never lead to Autocracy. One example, as a European, that I like is the Swedish Constitution, from the mid-1960s. The First article of the Swedish Constitution is the Right to Free Speech - BUT Journalists face Criminal prosecution for Defamation (not Civil Suits as might happen in the US). Moreover, the same Constitution that centres the Right to Free Speech also limits Hate Speech. Free Speech is not free - it has costs. The larger question, really, is who bears those costs?

@AR-vm7tk 6 ай бұрын

Why should we trust others with the power to decide which ideas are worthy for OUR consideration. Isn't the stop woke act a result of this line of thinking as well?

@PenclickProds 6 ай бұрын

Johnathan Haidt would be a great guest to discuss Social Media

@davidhochstetler4068 6 ай бұрын

“Giving the illusion that an idea is worthy of debate simply because it has high engagement” “Just gonna say controversial stuff to get money” Looks at the title of the video again

@davidhochstetler4068 6 ай бұрын

I appreciate Wisecracks right to make videos on whatever they want. I also miss when they were more balanced

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

I guess the difference would be that the posts that do it to get engagement are vapid and dumb and this is a 20 minute video that digs into the issues with research and the exploration of big ideas? So even if the spicy title gets you in the door, once you're in we're not just throwing BS at you.

@zacharybosley1935 6 ай бұрын

*looks at the content of the video

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

@@davidhochstetler4068 How is looking at what some of the most influential Greek philosophers said about speech and democracy not balanced?

@liamshope2838 6 ай бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU I guess in principal I agree with you,. But then again, are you the ultimate arbiter as to what correctly engages with big ideas and what is just vapid and dumb? A lot of bias just revealed in that statement right there. I'm a long time subscriber, but not anymore, though I'm sure that won't mean much to you as you gain more viewership by appealing to the status quo. This used to be a channel that would challenge the popular narrative, but who's content now boils down to the simple equation of "Liberal= Good, Conservative=Bad" which has become nauseating and tired ( even to a left leaning person such as myself). As much of your content critiques capitalist culture, you still are content creators, on a privately media platform, and have progressively capitulated to common views and taste to appease the majority of potential views, in order to increase the views, and therefore increase you ad revenue. The old saying is true then, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"

@getnohappy 6 ай бұрын

Why do "free market of ideas" people forget that free markets only work effectively when there are strict rules about truth and accuracy.

@weatheranddarkness 6 ай бұрын

"but free means no limits!"

@robertruiz4744 6 ай бұрын

Amen

@Rhetorical346 6 ай бұрын

what the fuck commie? Unfuck your head

@fredwelf8650 6 ай бұрын

Free means without censorship and with inclusion, everyone has a voice. The problem with truth is that each person has a viewpoint derived from many different streams of information. Truth refers to factual events but the causes and effects of those events are conjectural and multiple.

@robertruiz4744 6 ай бұрын

@@fredwelf8650 that’s the trick.. free became free when they realized no one knew what it meant and people in the name of safety would derived the wrong interpretation.. but fuck it. Those of us who get the joke laugh and exploit it bc “we are being fair”. The gift came in too late. Late enough for the average person to misinterpret it and early enough for us to get it to capitalize on it. You’re welcome algorithm. That’s something else for you. Just send me the damn fucking ticket and show me you are what I think you are

@yummyjackalmeat 6 ай бұрын

Musk is a modern day, real life Music Man aka Harold Hill. Throw in a little Bernie Madoff, PT Barnum, and Elizabeth Holmes and you have perfect replica of Elon Musk.

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

He lacks the charisma. He's Edison, but with less charm.

@BugsAGD 6 ай бұрын

I would say he is Patrick Bateman.

@lucascoval828 3 ай бұрын

@@BugsAGD He's too black to be Bateman.

@criticality2056 4 ай бұрын

Simplistic and biased. So Wisecrack slop as usual

@thatboii3094 4 ай бұрын

It wasn't like this when jarred was around... He started his own KZbin channel away from wisecrack bs

@criticality2056 4 ай бұрын

@@thatboii3094 yeah. This is why he left

@WisecrackEDU 4 ай бұрын

yeah definitely you for sure know what you're talking about

@criticality2056 4 ай бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU adorable. As vapid and mindless as your video.

@thatboii3094 4 ай бұрын

Your support of central governments and institutions is what bothers me@@WisecrackEDU

@Eltener123 6 ай бұрын

Yeah but Plato was also the guy who supported maintaining slavery

@cmosarch5285 6 ай бұрын

Tell me that you've never read Plato 😒 Aristotle thought slavery was natural and that humans came in two types - slaves and non-slaves.

@darlalathan6143 6 ай бұрын

@@cmosarch5285 I read Plato and agree that he said that. That's why I disagree with Plato.

@cmosarch5285 6 ай бұрын

@@darlalathan6143 You didn't read Plato Darla, because he never said that. Aristotle did.

@Eltener123 6 ай бұрын

@@cmosarch5285 Can you quote where slave owning Athenian aristocrat Plato ever wanted to abolish slavery or where he believed slavery should be abolished?

@cmosarch5285 6 ай бұрын

@@Eltener123 Can you show us a quote where Plato said anything about slavery?

@philipsimons752 Ай бұрын

Musk's idea of free speech absolutism reminds me of the episode of IASIP where Mac and Dennis introduce absolute freedom to the bar. And someone ends up shooting themselves in the basement.

@krock8422 6 ай бұрын

There has never been absolute free speech...ever. If you consider power dynamics there have never been a capitalist free market...ever. You can be absolutely free, or you can have a functional society. You can't have both.

@ApexEater 6 ай бұрын

Money is coerced into use through the same forces that the boundaries of speech are. Free speech, for whatever that means, has to be defined and enforced the same way blasphemy laws are. Absolute free speech contradicts the legal and market system by making fraud and slander on equal footing with investigation, objectivity and other honest pursuits that hold a non-autocratic society together. Democracy cannot live in a space where the criminals tame the legal institutions and make the laws. That's all speech online is being used for in the current model, to disconcert, confuse, slander, lie and undermine our more cooperative tendencies. Speech is being curated and targeted to manipulate groups in ways our founders never could have foreseen. Ultimately what really matters is the ability to openly criticize our leaders and to have a variety of media outlets and journalists to investigate, curate and collect our thoughts for us without retaliation. As long as that is not directly undermined, I think the current sick models of social media will be dropped eventually although I see people stay on Twitter even when it's blatantly manipulated to shove undesirables off into one corner of the internet while openly promoting not-C conspiracies all over the site.

@TheMysticshroom 6 ай бұрын

Michael, well of course I have to concede the point that the outback is a moral aberration The bloomin Onion is neutral at worst. Also it's tasty.

@duckshallrule6937 6 ай бұрын

I like the part where you constantly complain about how awful Twitter is throughout the video, but accidentally point out how much worse facebook is as an aside. The misinformation was inside you all along!

@JOZiable 6 ай бұрын

I like the part where you missed the point where both are bad and trying to turn it into a contest is distracting from the issue.

@duckshallrule6937 6 ай бұрын

I think social media is here to stay, so we should be encouraging the less harmful social media sites and discouraging the more harmful ones. If we do the opposite, such as in this video, we make the dystopia worse that much faster.@@JOZiable

@mavrickalexander 6 ай бұрын

Yeah change that title. Yall found out “freedom of speech hurts democracy” was a dumbass title. Ima watch this video but cant help but be skeptical and that this is dumb. Open mind, open mind, open mind.

@originaldarkwater 6 ай бұрын

"You'll never make me call it 'X', that's a letter, not a name": Proceeds to call it 'X' after calling it Twitter throughout the video.

@ionpop8 6 ай бұрын

I think the digital town square idea is fundamentally flawed in its current implementation. In a physical town square you need to take ownership of your actions and risk real consequences ranging from a warning to jail time, while in a digital town square you're anonymous and the worst punishment you can suffer is having your account suspended, which can be undone in 5 minutes by making another account. In a true digital town square you should: - be able to say anything without being silenced - be identifiable, so you can be held accountable, socially or legally, for anything you say

@catsmom129 6 ай бұрын

The flip side is that a physical town square might privilege the loud, the popular, or the intimidating folks. The social consequences you’re talking about mean that unpopular ideas might not get aired - even if they’re better supported by data. It can also mean people judging ideas based on the physical appearance of the speaker. So all the usual biases and prejudices influence which ideas get promoted.

@dangelo1369 6 ай бұрын

Once upon a time there were "Speaker Corners" in such places as 125th street and Lenox Ave in Harlem where anyone could get up on a soap box and speak. People like Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey gained followers from such. I believe that in London they have the same thing (although I don't recall specifically where in that city.) That might be in line with what you speak of.

@fromeveryting29 6 ай бұрын

It also assumes that the audience recieving the speech is perfectly rational, can’t be manipulated and that the best idea therefor will always win out. That is extremely extremely naive, and never happens. Most people are deeply irrational. Conservativism and fascism grows rapidly exactly because it appeals to insecurity and fear and turns people against each other and their own interests. The compelling ideas in a public forum are those delivered by a charismatic and skilled rhetorician who knows consciously or not what people are afraid of. Even ads appeal to these emotions. So what actually happens in an unmoderated public forum is that those with the most irrationally compelling ideas, often delivered charismatically and even with a money backed megaphone or stage, win out. While the actually good ideas are left in the margins, desperately trying to mediate and prevent the harm of the populist speaker. This is an ever looming flaw of democracy as well. Plato thought democracies would always be hijacked by demagouges who turn into tyrants. To protect democracy, we must not only protect the univeral right to speak, but also what quality og speech is productive and should be promoted. The forum should have rules, in other words, rules that must be enforced. Or else we have Hitlers and the like constantly and consistently commiting mass atrocities, rampant fascism, maybe even the very destruction of the eco system, like we see today. People who lie, harass, misrepresent should be punished and disallowed to speak until they can provide an actual good faith, honest, justified argument. Something I have never ever seen from the conservative right.

@Crazy_Diamond_75 6 ай бұрын

@@catsmom129 With the exception of "loud," those apply just as much to our digital space as well.

@Scowleasy 6 ай бұрын

It’s always amazing that the ones screaming about free speech the loudest are always the ones that want to be as hateful and vile as possible.

@justinrivera1618 6 ай бұрын

What’s wrong with being hateful and vile? Before you write me off understand I’m not necessarily agreeing with the Nazis but what I’m saying is people have a right to be hateful and vile and should express that in a way that doesn’t involve the physical destruction of another person.

@darlalathan6143 6 ай бұрын

@@justinrivera1618 Hateful and vile people historically have destroyed others physically, with lynchings, pogroms, and genocides.

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

Let them. It lets you know who to ignore. And which house gets the Easter eggs for Halloween.

@Scowleasy 6 ай бұрын

@@justinrivera1618 you mean like Libs of Tiktok, whose hate speech has directly inspired multiple bomb threats? Word have consequences dumbass.

@Stryfe52 6 ай бұрын

What if they aren’t vile and you just see them that way though, should they be silenced for that? I hate assholes too, but there’s not much that I hate as much as being misinterpreted(Not discrediting the fact that there are real asshats out there).

@litterbox2010 6 ай бұрын

"If it's legal to say" okay. but I got banned for saying cis.. ..about myself. I'm cis lmao.

@grasshopper1153 6 ай бұрын

this is the deal. moderators are out of control out on the Web.

@TDrudley 6 ай бұрын

I'm no fan of the "cis" thing, but, I am for free speech, so if you got banned on X for calling yourself cis, that's crazy and stupid. They say that you should know for what reason you get banned, or suspended, I would love to see a pic of the reason you got suspended, and if it's the cis thing, you should get reinstanted promptly. I myself got suspended for saying a "bad word" once and I just contacted them back, pointing out the context of the "bad word" and got promptly unsuspended, so, try that?

@theotherbk1819 6 ай бұрын

Nah dude you're a regular person who believes in basic biology but implements the silly change in language in order to normalize those types of people that believe in delusion. I'd personally say that it's a overcomplication of language to create the illusion that the basic knowledge of biology has changed and that men and women do not have differences or now have the ability to not have differences but if that were the case then there wouldn't be a need to add the trans or cis to the word women as it insinuates that that differs from regular women and how they are treated which is evident with the normalization individuals like the trans woman that sexually assaulted a baby at a daycare is a women then why did that person not face jail time due to identifying as a trans woman and not a cis woman which implies that trans women are not cis women which implies that trans women aren't women and that real women don't get any additional protection when commiting a crime as they are just cus women which means they are just humans that give birth and that's it but if you identify as trans you will get protection and attention and support from media. Just like with the boy who was let into the locker room for identified as trans who graped Scott Smith's daughter but was not punished and instead protected by police who simply moved him to another school where he got away with graping another minor in the girl's locker room at that school and the recent planet fitness situation where the women reporting a dude shaving in front of a 12 year old girl was the one that was punished or the fact that they covered up a dude who called himself a trans woman being allowed to expose himself to minors and employees in the women's showers as they did not report him based in the fact that he added the fact that he suddenly and instantly realized he changed his identity and gender so he called himself a transwoman so he could be allowed to do whatever he wanted without being reported on or punished. Those who do not have those trans identities but call themselves cis, which again normalizes a slur toward normal people and highlights trans not actually being the opposite gender, would more than likely face punishment. Sorry didn't mean to say all that but just wanted to say that changing language and calling normal people a word that is supposed to make them be just a human with one function actually states that trans people are still the way God made'm despite the mutilation and unnatural hormone pumping so that's probably why you can get banned for saying it cause it's like saying normal people aren't special and trans women means women not a cis woman so he's not actually women but in truth remains a man. But if ya call me one of the words that end with phobic or ist that's fine I'll keep relying on the GOAT Jesus to keep stating the facts of normal people being called normal people that will always be what they are and not what they will never be and praying for everybody regardless 👍

@theotherbk1819 6 ай бұрын

@nuke___8876 6 ай бұрын

Why would anyone that wants real debate do that in public on the internet? That's never how good debates were started in meatspace so what magic would make it work in cyberspace? It's much better to just write a 2 sentence idea on public websites and then go back to private discord/reddit groups where people are vetted before joining and moderation is enforced -- you know -- similar to real life. If I want a real debate on, how much gun control is a good amount, I don't scream on the streets -- I talk to people I know that span a variety of views.

@thebandwagoneffect 6 ай бұрын

Plato saying we should have philosopher kings vibes like engineers saying we should have engineer presidents because they’ll “engineer all the problems away.” 🤔

@DicePunk 6 ай бұрын

The "intolerant" in Karl Popper's Paradox of Tolerance refers to BOTH the free speech absolutists and the moral busybodies.

@zacharybosley1935 6 ай бұрын

Moral busybodies?

@DicePunk 6 ай бұрын

@@zacharybosley1935 silencing others voicing different opinions, even objectively harmful ones, is a form of puritanical intolerance. Being opposed to them should be encouraged, but silencing them is counter productive. Sunlight is a disinfectant, figuratively, and ideas suspected of wrongness should be publicly tested, not relegated to darkness, as it can flourish and grow in secret.

@kevintodd1222 4 ай бұрын

If I was going to have a debate with someone, add chickened out at the last minute and instead did everything I could to ban that person from the event, all because a combination of I didn't prepare well enough and I think that person was smarter than me, and then what if that person was caught lying once? So who is more dishonest? Them or me? My actions would have been another form of dishonesty after all. AND WHO GETS TO DECIDE???? SOMEONE BETTER THAN US?? AND WHO MIGHT THAT BE AND WHO DECIDES????

@Mastadonson 6 ай бұрын

It is not undemocratic nor anti-free speech to suppress or silence that speech that would take freedoms or democratic rights from others (hate speech, hate figures, hate groups, etc). The paradox of tolerance!

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

I disagree. I think that should someone with a platform lie or defame, the government should be responsible to counter that information, not suppress it. If it's gov't secrets, they shoulda got 'im before he left the building.

@Mastadonson 6 ай бұрын

@@NWPaul72 oh yeah I agree there. I don’t think the government should do much in the way of censorship at all, rather, it should be incumbent upon the polity as a whole to deplatform speech that is widely seen as hateful or violent. We’ve seen deplatforming work on people like Andrew Tate and Alex Jones before

@FrankJeeves 6 ай бұрын

Yeah it is. Don't we advocate for men not being able to protect humans when they're in the womb of women? While simultaneously doing nothing about the fact that men have to pay child support even if they've been raped by women? Don't we advocate for women having positions of power that can control War decisions despite the fact that they do not have to sign up for the draft and only males and trans women do. The left has no problem taking the right others away and they still call it free speech.

@StephenGleason0 6 ай бұрын

“It’s not anti-free speech to suppress or silence speech” You do not believe in free speech How does speech take away rights? What constitutes hate speech? Or hate figures? Or hate groups? You guys never think 3 steps ahead of the ideas you propose

@Mastadonson 6 ай бұрын

@@StephenGleason0 wait but you missed the last half of my sentence. I’m saying it’s PRO free speech to silence speech that would threaten taking free speech or right from others. For example, I think it’s totally fine to silence Nazis, because they would take speech and other rights from all kinds of people. It’s like being pro-peace. You can fight a war against a major power that threatens peace while being pro peace, because you have to defend it

@chrisdunker54 6 ай бұрын

I don't feel that free speech is the problem. Like anything it has to have boundaries and limitations. For instance, I'm allowed to be naked in my home as much as I want, but I cannot go outside in the buff. I'm not hurting anyone, but we as a society have determined that there is little reason to be outside naked, so we have forbade it and made it illegal. Further, I would say that there are two mindsets that are doing the most damage. 1) Fight Me- the notion that we feel so strongly about something that we don't care what other people think or have to say and we use this weaponized mindset to bludgeon our opponents till they either, break and turn away, or are destroyed and forced to pick up the pieces. 2) For The LOLs- people who post stupid things because they are going to illicit negative comments and since they don't care there is no constructive dialogue. We all need to realize that the first amendment only protects us from the government, not other citizens. Which is why you can still be sued by such people for 'speaking your mind. But more than that, we need to recognize that we shouldn't just say what's on our minds, and if we do take into consideration that everyone has their own opinion and it should be regarded as valid, at least until it is disproved.

@Chudchanning 6 ай бұрын

Wait, wasn't this video titled "free speech is a threat to democracy" earlier? Did you have remorse about that title or did you exploit the title to enhance clicks?

@TDrudley 6 ай бұрын

I guess he got some criticism on that one since it's literally untrue and the opposite of truth. You can't even have a democracy if the people aren't allowed to share their thoughts and ideas.

@Crazy_Diamond_75 6 ай бұрын

@@TDrudley How is it "literally untrue" or "the opposite" of truth? Do _all_ ideas and thoughts deserve to be shared?

@TDrudley 6 ай бұрын

@@Crazy_Diamond_75 No, but all have the right to be shared.

@TDrudley 6 ай бұрын

@@Crazy_Diamond_75 You can't have a democracy without free speech, so calling free speech a threat to democracy makes no sense.

@Crazy_Diamond_75 6 ай бұрын

@@TDrudley Why should targeted hate speech, or speech that calls for any exclusion of people from the democratic process, have the right to be shared?

@kevintodd1222 4 ай бұрын

Anyone who assumes, wants, thinks, free speech has anything to do with honesty or dishonesty should get a dictionary. Period. Anyone who argues that it SHOULD, is either stupid or a hypocrite. If you reply with something that suggests I need to explain it, just remember I'm not the one that said something so stupid. After all, the host's dishonesty shines through as much as Elon Musk's does; but God bless them both; they both have the right, with or without a piece of paper that says so.

@Vicioussama 6 ай бұрын

wtf kinda 1984 title is that?

@simpletown323 6 ай бұрын

It makes sense

@strengthmonk 6 ай бұрын

Did you watch the video?

@Saint_nobody 6 ай бұрын

@@strengthmonkno. I just went to the comment section. 😅

@MatthewMoreau 6 ай бұрын

It is. They torture us.

@Taycatte 6 ай бұрын

This one really brought out the gremlins, huh?

@arkology_city 6 ай бұрын

If you lose free speech, this channel would be the first to go.

@Taycatte 6 ай бұрын

@arkology_city Pointing out the flaws of a concept is not the same as advocating that the concept should be done away with. I can still support free speech generally while acknowledging it's shortcomings.

@robtron3 6 ай бұрын

True freedom of speech was the 2008 Xbox call of duty lobbies, followed by the formation of the bill of rights - both spaces would be considered too toxic for current Americans

@GreyKnight7777 6 ай бұрын

This video really gave me a craving for Outback Steakhouse.

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

Use code WISECRACK at the checkout of Outback for 20% off a confused look on your server's face.

@CriminallyCritical 6 ай бұрын

This was a great discussion of this topic! Excellent food for thought, with well organized ideas IMO, which is hard since, personally, this topic has me impaled (can I even say impaled in YT comments?) on proverbial fence posts. I suppose disinformation (i.e. people lying?) can't go away, but not allowing profiteering from misinformation can't be a bad starting point for addressing this... Happy Friday Wisecrack team.

@WisecrackEDU 6 ай бұрын

Thanks and appreciate it, hope you have a great Friday too!

@DrumWild 6 ай бұрын

I never took "free speech" to mean that we can say whatever we want, because of things like slander or a "call to action." Rather, I view free speech as a case of us having the freedom to criticize the government without the fear that we will be arrested for it. I view all of our rights as being cases of government restriction.

@ReaganRuinedEverything 6 ай бұрын

The reason you "took" it the way you did, is because that's actually how it's meant. You prolly just read the constitution, or parts of it and just remembered some of it lol. The "free speech absolutists" haven't read past "we the people" lol

@neigeepierrot4694 6 ай бұрын

I agree since though you have the right to free speech you can do so up to the point that you harm someone or if people disagree they can say this

@neigeepierrot4694 6 ай бұрын

@@ReaganRuinedEverythingtrue since many people don’t read up to that part or were never taught why certain things are harmful

@rscottclark 6 ай бұрын

Well, most people have extremely restricted speech for nearly half their waking life. At work. You can't say what you want there, and can get fired real quick for crossing any lines drawn by the employer and/or polite society. Strange that never seems to come up in conservative FS discourse......

@darlalathan6143 6 ай бұрын

I like the way you think!

@Entheos84 6 ай бұрын

Jordan simplifies Derrida, Foucault and Marx. Michael simplifies Jordan. And so humanity has lost the benefits of their minds working together forever.

@cerberus01 6 ай бұрын

Lesson I was taught young was "With freedom comes responsibility", yes it does sound a lot like "With great power comes great responsibility." The problem with today's society is that the world is full of irrational and irresponsible people that do not know what the power their words hold. "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me." This has been proven to be utter bull.

@darlalathan6143 6 ай бұрын

Yes! This! "Talk is cheap" is an excuse to verbally abuse and harass others with death threats, vicious lies, false advertising, and ethnic slurs.

@NWPaul72 6 ай бұрын

What if my words make you pick up a stick or vice versa? Words can definitely get your bones broken. But that's absolute freedom of speech for ya.

@Stryfe52 6 ай бұрын

“Stick and stones may break my bones but that shit really hurt me 😢”

@Stryfe52 6 ай бұрын

⁠⁠@@NWPaul72I always assumed that the point of the phrase was you shouldn’t take what people say - no matter how harsh - to heart. I can talk shit about your passed mom but at the end of the day it will still be your fault for turning to violence. God, I wish we had these kinds of discussions more

@cerberus01 6 ай бұрын

@@Stryfe52 some people need to learn that what you say possibly come with harsher consequences. I'd wager majority of mass shootings have originated with something someone said.

@colonelweird 6 ай бұрын

I wonder if it would possible to structure social media so that it encouraged good conversation and encouraged the kinds of virtue needed for democracy to work. The first step would be taking it out of the hands of for-profit entities. If it was seen as a public utility, how would the technology change? Could we have algorithms that promote thoughtfulness, kindness, compassion, and polite debates done in good faith?

@phleef 6 ай бұрын

I notice many who gripe about a lack of free speech actually have a problem with speech free from criticism.

@TheSundayShooter 6 ай бұрын

I notice many who gripe about a lack of speech free from hate actually have a problem with criticism

@Alverant 6 ай бұрын

@@TheSundayShooterI notice those saying people have a problem with criticism confuse actual criticism with using slurs, insults, and dehumanizing language.

@jeanivanjohnson 6 ай бұрын

silencing is not criticism.

@phleef 5 ай бұрын

@@jeanivanjohnson silencing by whom?

@jeanivanjohnson 5 ай бұрын

@@phleef i would told you if i could