the Myth of Guitar Tuning with Tom Bukovac and Joe Glaser

Tuning is the one thing that will take down a player. There is an expectation for perfection, and it can destroy players mentality when they get to recording. Tom Bukovac and Joe Glaser break it all down for us. Perfection is boring, and intonation is a fallacy.
Watch the full video here: insideblackbir...
Hear more from Joe Glaser, Tom Bukovac, and other music industry legends at insideblackbir...
Subscribe on KZbin for more videos like this: ‪@insideblackbird‬
Shop Blackbird Merch: theblackbirdst...
Find Inside Blackbird Online
Instagram: / inside_blackbird
TikTok: / insideblackbird
Facebook: / insideblackbird
Twitter: / insideblackbird
#InsideBlackbird #TomBukovac #JoeGlaser

[@Guitargate]

THIS is the stuff that needs to be talked about. Instinctively avoiding a 3rd on top. Man, I can’t tell you how huge of a thing that is.

[@eastbaystreet1242]

Michael, would you have a second to explain what that means (avoiding the 3rd on top)? How do you do it? All of Joe and Tom's wisdom is so valuable - I would like to try to learn this. TIA

[@codyjackson3365]

Instead of playing the third note In a given chord or scale on the top string they’ll play it elsewhere on the neck in order to have it play in the “middle” of a chord.

[@eastbaystreet1242]

@@codyjackson3365 Thanks. Makes sense. But I will need an extra hand!

[@J.C...]

So what's a 3rd in top? Like in a triad where the 3rd is on the top string of the chord? Am I figuring this right? I don't know much theory but that seems like the logical answer?

[@J.C...]

Lmao didn't realize I just asked the same thing. Glad to know I figured it out. 😂

[@dezertson2011]

Hilariously, you don’t learn any of this when you first start learning guitar, and if your teacher is very traditional and theory oriented, you’ll be playing all the notes in a chord every time wondering why it sounds bad, or at least not like the artist played it, for years. New guitarist are very lucky to have the resources they have today and are able to learn about triads, double stops, and videos like this right from the get go.

[@justinguitarcia]

This is what makes some of the gospel singers so compelling imo, they will sing those natural overtones, the sweet ones, that ‘technically’ are out of tune if you were to measure in equal temperament. Same with bending or slide, its a super fine line between out of tune, in tune but out with the interval (like a third) and sweetened or in tune with the natural harmonic overtone

[@nedim_guitar]

Hey, you're on to something! I'm not a good singer, and from now on, I'm going to say that I'm doing these overtones and that's the reason I sound out of tune. 😂

[@TheSoundCoop]

This is just epic! Pure honesty. No BS. Two of the best 🙌♥️

[@stratcat9432]

Wow! This came out of nowhere and it's a fantastic conversation between two professors of the guitar. So much knowledge to unpack.

[@santosmadrigal3702]

I always say "when someone says they want to learn the guitar" learn how to tune it , and get really good at it .

[@davekiddie4467]

Not really

[@blindsidedka]

This topic has been discussed for several hundred years, so it didn't exactly come out of nowhere.

[@stratcat9432]

@blindsidedka The video, dozy one,not the topic.

[@anthonypanneton923]

really fascinating discussion. I'm almost 70 now, and I've been playing guitar since I was 13. I've never played anything perfect, but in the last year I've finally got to the point where sometimes I'm good with a track even if there's a blatant mistake in it, as long as I like the rest of it. I've realized that if I'm happy with something I played except for one (or even two) little hiccups - I'll just keep it now. Because those little mistakes and imperfections are what makes it human. it gives the music character. I remember back in the '60s people ragging on about The Rolling Stones' singing. But it sounds great! That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[@Tonetwisters]

Yessir! I'm nearly 76, been playing earnestly, since 1961, and actually started in 1959. These days guitar is more therapy than music; but I had the rare opportunity to spend time in my brother's 16-track analog MCI-equipped recording studio engineering, producing and playing ... I had lots of opportunity to get it wrong, but did a decent job overall! And had a LOT of joy in the process!

[@anthonypanneton923]

@@Tonetwisters It reminds me of a story I heard on a video from Tyrone Vaughan (Jimmie Vaughan's son). He told a story of his dad recording a guitar lead overdub, and after he got a take he liked, the engineer said "you were a little out of tune during that - you want to try it again?" And Vaughan replied, "no, that was the one."

[@someguywhosold9914]

Another thing I found over many years is some guitars like different tunings. I have a 50’s Stella 12 string i rebuilt the tuners and bridge. It still didnt’ hold tune well. Then I tuned it to open G, it loves it! My LP seems to like half step down. My Guild Acoustic has so far never been out of double drop D. I don’t know why some guitars like different tunings but have found it true!

[@mknow1]

Could have to do with natural resonant frequencies.

[@brutallyremastered4255]

Now that's a great point. I'm sure you're correct and it's just a matter of finding those tunings

[@paulndorosh]

Like in most situations...context is key. The out-of-tuneness of a guitar can add character, but can also ruin things. It all depends.

[@Alphyddan]

When in tune, you can always push the strings a little harder if you want that "movement". True Temperament was invented in Sweden so maby I´m biased, but i seriously can´t understand why this revolutionary invention isn´t more well known? Tradition, slander? Give it an hones try, you will thank me! :)

[@d.lafollette]

After studying classical guitar I've always tuned my guitar for the main key of each piece/song before playing it so that all the roots and 5ths of that key are in tune with each other everywhere possible on the neck. If those are in, the rest are are good as they're going to get. It makes a huge difference and eliminates "sour" notes in melodies and sustained chords as much as possible when changing keys from piece to piece.

[@rao4sos]

Paul Rothchild and I had a similar talk. He had just informed me he was giving up his side gig as musical instrument distributor of which I was his west coast rep..[Taylor, Alembic, Larrivee, Augustino, Travis Bean, Bartolini]. I trusted his advice and always took it, except once. He urged me not to work for Stills. "He's a great guy, but simply too demanding". After a few months I realized he was wrong. We got along beautifully. Then, under the hot lights of the Hollywood Bowl, he stopped mid tune, looked over at me and loudly asked, "Who tuned this guitar? Helen Keller?" I was mortified, but it still cracked me up. I turned to Slack, Finnigan's keyboard roadie "Guess what, you're our new guitar tuner." He didn't need a scope..his ears were perfect. Everyone was happy. Great channel here.

[@scottbaxendale323]

Jorma Kaukonen told me once that these very imperfections in the guitar are exactly what gives it it’s charm.

[@brutallyremastered4255]

He's so great.

[@kostisk8914]

Yessss! Just pulled the tuner off my board. Got room another transparent drive now!

[@GreenDistantStar]

I get the math of temper and intonation. Microtonal frets are one solution. I also get the frustration of losing tuning mid performance. The EverTone bridges seem to have sorted this problem out, so all hope is not lost.

[@thegatorgar6730]

Wish this was 20 minutes longer! Such goodness!

[@mattbender4135]

2 hours on the website!

[@calmthemonster]

Too much these days, music is losing the human in it. Too perfect is imperfect. Keep the soul.

[@louderthangod]

100%

[@ryangunwitch-black]

If you can make it with an AI, it wasn’t music in the first.

[@morninglory6616]

Man, I can’t agree more.

[@alexlifeson8946]

The Dream Theater effect. So perfect, or sounds terribly sterile

[@oliverchapman51177]

Tom Bukovac. There’s one. Robben Ford, Jack Pearson. Oh, I just heard Clapton the other night. He still had some juice during some moments. That guy, the whole package. Now he’s actually starting to look like that old blues man he sings like. He grew on me every year.

[@WickBeavers]

Buzz Feiten work for you? I have a nut on one of my guitars and it sure fixes things nicely. Even tuning a guitar without the Buzz Feiten System brings it closer to perfect. Tried it?

[@sao9995]

Two good dudes; they ain't nothing but interesting and kind. We love you guys.

[@tobe2056]

Man 100%! Great topic. I've had to 'educate' a lot of pple in the studio over that issue, over many years. Gits actually sound better with the normal tuning issue, if they're not wildly out. If it was pure, it wouldn't sound like a guitar anymore. But even if you get open strings spot on, a little pressure between the frets bends the string slightly sharp etc anyways. It's just unrealistic to expect perfect tuning. Even on a compensated saddle or Feiten set up. And that's ok. It's esp rough on acoustics, and esp with 12 strings or exotics, like a Coral Sitar. Fuggetaboutit. And if there's a modulated synth in the track, ughhh. I always tune to the track, rarely use a tuner anymore. Except as a starting point. Get it as close as possible, and hit record. I've had guys tho after the fact take single notes and retune them in melodyne. That's fun. 😅

[@5150show]

Absolutely interesting, thank you

[@nazfrde]

The problem with tuning is that the mathematical intervals are NOT equal, and can never be. The 440-hz difference from middle A to high A, for instance, cannot equally be divided by 12, at least not without using repeating decimals, which I'm pretty sure my electronic tuner can't use. Over the centuries, multiple methods of tuning, called temperaments, can been devised, tried and used. We've been using "equal" temperament for a few hundred years for 12-tone music, because it's a good compromise between simplicity and accuracy in terms of note values, but a compromise it is. Guitarists especially need to remember that just because two adjacent strings are in tune and in intonation, doesn't mean that any chord played on those two strings will be. And the higher up the scale one goes, the worse it gets, since the numerical value differences are greater.

[@davekiddie4467]

There are ways to overcome that

[@nickfry1026]

My friend, neighbor, jam partner and great bass player Rick Lojacono invented the Earvana string compensating nut. I don’t really understand the science behind it but it really does work. He personally put one on my Tele and you really don’t even notice it’s different from the stock nut and he didn’t have to alter the original nut slot.

[@kylemoran4343]

Awesome Joe ! 1:37 you mention Chuck Berry, and that was the first person that jumped into my brain, as uncle Larry was talking about the importance of in-tune. Chuck made $$$$ not knowing if he was in tune or out of tune (mostly out) Rock'N Roll, and WE LOVED IT !

[@MichaelAntus]

Thanks for the insight. Much respect...

[@TM-jo4wz]

One way to help. Tune open string. Tune 5th fret Tune at 10th or 12 fret. Then you can optimize the tuning. Plus a note has what is called a”node”. Meaning that when it sounds pure it could be sharp or flat and still sound pure. Tuning with a snark tuner. Just because it shows in tune doesn’t mean it is. That’s where the node comes in. When I tune a note I check other areas. In other words if I tune the E string I’ll check the A note on the E string. The tuner shows it’s out I correct it. The E string still shows in tune.

[@davewestner]

tuning well is SUCH an important skill that many guitarists don't know how to do. Can't just tune to the tuner and call it good. Tuner is just to get it close, then you gotta use the Mark 1 eardrum and do the rest by hand. There is a decent solution to the problem, which is microtonal fingerboards, but they really haven't caught on....very niche....but they do allow to get things more in tune because they have in between the notes frets.

[@howardledbetter5169]

I had the privilege of having a guitar done by Joe Glaser. The best thing I ever done still playing it. He is truly the man.

[@Disgustedbutnotyetamused]

Even temperament has blinded all our ears to real tuning and everybody is too damm reliant on electronic tuners.The guy that taught me the most about tuning used to call it sweetening. He would get the whole guitar in tune and then fine tune the overtones across the octaves by ear until the resonant frequencies were all working together. Biggest example of this was always the g string which is never in tune on the guitar. He would first "Sweeten" the high e and b strings and get them sounding right by tuning them against the d string fretted to e. Then fretting the e at the g he would micro adjust the g string up until the harmonics were sweet, checking it against the b string fretted to g as well. He would then apply the same cross checks across the whole guitar. Made all the world of difference. It would most likely fall apart if he was playing with a lot of weird key with tons of sharps and flats but for C, D, G, F, Em and Am it was god like and he had this old Martin that would sing..

[@curtisprincemusic]

I’ve always felt Tuning is relative. Relative to the relationship between each note being played and from which string it’s being played on. Relative to the voicing used. Relative to the other instruments being played at the same time. Relative to each individual instrument. Relative to what’s being said, and who’s listening. There’s experiments done on the outcomes of specific situations recreated digitally/perfectly, when someone was watching and when no one was watching, and the outcomes were different from each other. Could tuning be like that? Tuning is beautiful…

[@gtr1952]

OMG, I've had that same conversation 100 times in my 71 years on the planet. The guitar is not a perfect instrument, it can't be. Here's another one, the tall narrow frets allow better tuning than short fat ones. The fret itself takes up space on the board. LOL I gave up years ago, now its close enough for rock and roil!! LOL Peace... --gary

[@davekiddie4467]

But it is very possible to have your axe in perfect tune, from the first fret to the 24, you just can't do it yourself.

[@randalclarke5487]

I'm CONSTANTLY fine tuning, particularly as I use a capo a lot(so, sue me). My dad taught me early on to tune to a D or an A chord...another friend showed a trick that essentially tunes like a piano, and last- I retune the B and E sharp in the key of E, as they sound flat in the open E chord, so needless to say, im tuning ALL THE TIME and I play 250 gigs a year. There's just a big picture I hear, and it must be done

[@DaveElke]

The overtone series, important in EQ while recording and mixing also. Never considered the rub of the overtone and fretted third. Thanks Joe.

[@gitarmats]

So true... and once you start listening closely for it you can drive yourself nuts sometimes.

[@TheArchiveOfWonder]

Your point is well taken about many popular records being a little of of tune. That said though there is something extremely satisfying about a guitar where the G and D chords really jive well together, it's the acid test of guitar tuning in my opinion.

[@ata5855]

it's hard to get the open chords and fretted chords to be in tune and jibe at the same time

[@stevenjones6780]

Yes and then maybe tweak things a bit to get E (not minor) to sound better. My ear hears mainly 2 sets of "adjusted standard tuning" I wanna try to hit: G and D, then E and A, and sometimes C as a 3rd tonal center.

[@fyimediaworld]

Tuning on guitar is part of your unique sound. The way you're out of tune and how you choose notes and how you play those notes and when you play those notes. That's the whole thing.

[@kylerferrill8252]

Evh’s gtr tech said he had to set it up for what would sound out of tune for most players but Eddie’s playing was so heavy handed that’s what ‘in tune’ was for him

[@stevenjones6780]

Probably why some players just dont sound good together no matter what, or certain instruments with the wrong amp or effects. Maybe- and conversely- it's part of the legendary first "Train kept a rollin" Zeppelin session was so magic- for example...

[@CharlesWillisBonsai]

Once I'm up to pitch I always play a dmin7 chord and tweak the g and b strings to make it sound right. I know the g string is a little flat, but that's the only way that those what I call Van Halen chords are going to sound right.

[@TM-jo4wz]

Plus the position of the guitar is very important. It’s different sitting down as opposed to standing. Every time you move it changes the tuning. Added: A acoustic piano is not a source for tuning. Unless you tune to A440. Note. That’s A 4 A 0 is the first A on the piano. Second A is called A 1. The piano has a stretch in the tuning meaning the notes aren’t mathematically perfect. Around A 440 it’s very close. Bass gets flat Treble gets sharp. Using a guitar tuner you probably could get away with tuning a piano in the middle section.

[@jeffreyduncan989]

Nothing used to be perfectly in tune but digital/midi changed that… I’m glad to know the pros struggle with tuning also

[@stringbender57]

Extremely interesting discussion. This makes sense and answers a lot of questions.

[@swingarmer]

Great discussion about truth, limitation and acceptance.

[@floepiejane]

Nice ✌🏽🌻

[@innocentoctave]

This is accurate information, though I think that the exposition could be a little clearer. One consequence of this inharmonicity - every fundamental generating its own overtone series, with only the octave harmonics being perfectly in tune, and only with that fundamental - is that a guitar that is as close as possible to 'in tune' in one key may be significantly out of tune if the player modulates to a different key. As a result, all workable guitar tunings are compromises. It's also why tuning using harmonics sometimes doesn't work as well it should, theoretically.

[@onlyrick]

Something that I think is tangentially related is I get better results with a tuner if I tune to the third fret D on the B string instead of tuning to the open B. The other strings I tune open, but still wind up tweaking here and there.

[@mikelord9860]

Yeah that B string is a dilemma for me - if I play an Em and that open B is flat, UGH! I kinda hafta split the difference - either the B is on and the D is sharp or I'm eyeballin' the nut slot and how I can lower it some more. My 12-string gives me grief like this.

[@giulioluzzardi7632]

I had a Rickenbackef 12 string that actually stayed in tune with rusty strings and did'nt like new strings, it was like a piano, maybe because we used 12s on the top E?

[@J_Braz_]

I wasted years obsessing over my guitars action, neck relief, intonation, ECT. I learned now to keep my setup simple and consistent. By rules I keep my neck almost straight. String height about 2mm on the low e and 1.8 on the high e. Now I play instead of obsess.

[@timsmith190]

In Standard tuning we tune the major 3rd 13.69 cents sharp (just tuning would be 386.31, we tune to 400 cents about the unison note). Is this not the reason the major 3rd always sounds sharp?

[@peterpoirier269]

One way to test that the tuning (tempered) on guitar is imperfect. Tune a nice rich sounding major 3rd with the open G and B string. Now fret the the G string at the 4th fret. It will be quite out compared to the open B string.

[@christianboddum8783]

Just testing out an Earvana nut for the first time, hoping for a noticeable change...

[@MontyCantsin5]

How did it work out?

[@mahkyb]

I'm a producer but also a guitar player. When I started mixing acoustic guitars with all my piano/synth libraries the tuning issue started driving me mad. I actually began favoring my libraries and didn't use guitar if I didn't have too. Since then, I've split the difference by tolerating the limits of tuning and using Melodyne.

[@andym2612]

0:52 "Tuning is the one thing that will take a good man down." So true, it then leads to the rabbit hole of string gauge verses scale length and then guitar's intonation and/or action which could then lead you to potential of having to make truss rod adjustments. Does my head in.

[@DontWorryImAPilot]

I think tuning is definitely one of those "in the hands" things. I know that I have to have certain different finger pressures as I'm playing different sorts of chords and inversions. And it's different on each of my guitars. It's almost like it takes me a few minutes of playing to hear what the instrument is doing that day and then I can adjust and keep it in pretty good tune. I think of it like intonating on a fiddle or a trombone. Listen, get in tune, repeat the technique. Feel how it sounds. Make it sound like it's supposed to feel. Something I always do with clients in my studio: Tune the most soothing chord in the song/section as perfectly as possible. Make it sound as safe and "on" as you can because that's playing into the emotionality of that chord. Often it's the I chord of the key but not always. I have them play that chord and the part it's in at the tempo it's played in. I mute all but one string with one hand as they're strumming the part and I'll grab the tuning pegs with the other to get the only unmuted string to be in tune for the part. Then I unmute a different string and mute the previously unmuted string. The guitar gets into fantastic tune for the player, the part, and the tempo. Everything else might be a little wonky - that's the nature of guitar - but at least the song that's SUPPOSED to sound safe and calm actually does. Then - depending on the content of the song - the other ones that have some amount of out-of-tune tension are just serving to play into the emotionality of the rest of the song! Tuning it to tempo is important because on a guitar the pitch swings over time; in the milliseconds after the pick moves past the string it's a little sharp and falls flat over the sustain. If it's a slower part, tune to the sustain. A faster part gets tuned a little flat to keep the early sharpness of the notes in tune. The amount of pitch swing changes based on a million things like scale length, string gauge, tuning, etc. so be aware of that when tuning and thinking about they parts they're playing. At that point, no matter what's happening, that "most calm and soothing" chord is always serving the song and everything else falls where it may.

[@cpetty4305]

Thank you! imperfections are great in songs, human even!

[@m0j0b0ne]

One of the reasons many sampled guitars sound fake is because the sound designers went in and tuned every note. On a real guitar, there are at least five places to play any given note in the same octave and each will have a slightly different set of harmonics. That doesn't mean we can't play in tune; 'sweetening' offsets and the Feiten system can help, but it really just comes down to one's ear and one's instrument. I came to guitar from the saxophone, where again nearly none of the notes are perfectly in tune and the amount and direction of adjustment changes with the key. Tuning is applied with lip pressure on the fly; that's just how it's done.

[@lawrencemayfieldmusic8245]

Its hard to get TRULY tuned right just based on all the variables. between the action being to high, how the wood and frets are warping or wearing and a multitude of other things. I find that there is a sweet spot you can manage but you have to learn it on your specific guitar. The closer you get the better. But im convinced its impossible to completely have in tune open strings and fretting on certain spots. I always have to chrck if the string is sharp or too flat when i press on it on certain frets and when open to find the spot on a tuner that sounds passable for both.

[@rcameron4091]

I think tuning is a part of the art of playing , and can be as individual as the player . One issue I deal with living in Canada with four seasons is extreme climate change . I wasn't aware in the beginning . I keep all my guitars under climate control at home but make sure I tune several times before a performance . Enjoyed the vid

[@jsullivan2112]

An interesting fact about The Beatles too, they'd played the shit out of their guitars so much that by the time Get Back came along, John's Casino was virtually unplayable due to the lack of fret work and maintenance. When he tried using it for Imagine he couldn't stand it anymore. There's little record of any regular maintenance being done on their instruments.

[@Clayton-t5i]

I love this video. I do all my own guitars right out of the box. I play Epiphone '59's and I have a Slash and a 50's STD. I do nut micro filing slots if necessary, I file all the excess meat off the nut, so they look like a Custom shop Gibson nut, I do the action, intonation, and put graphite in the nut slots (just a smidge of pencil dust), and I get my guitars so all those 3rd's ,5th's , from stem to stern, are damn close, I especially want that "Hendrixy" thing spot on , like the open A string with the C# note at the 11th fret on the D, and the same with the E open string, D open string. I go OCD on that shit and I love doing it and play all those so called "nighmare " harmony notes and they're damn close.

[@Bangkokguitar]

The last sentence said it all, perfectly!

[@loudmindpro8864]

THANK YOU I REALLY THOUGHT I WAS LOSING A GOSH DANG MIND

[@MostlyElectrolytes]

I bought a Les Paul that Joe refretted, bone nut, etc., and it's no kidding the best playing thing I've ever touched.

[@solarismoon3046]

No - most people can't hear the difference. What is going on is multiple things - - - the neck has to be straight and the bridge needs to be only high enough for the strings to clear so that you don't hear choking out. Also the nut needs to be the same because if your guitar's not set up properly in both the action and intonation it won't sound right! It has absolutely nothing to do with the guitar itself in the make or model or the nature of the instrument. The heavier gauge strings will also have a more solid timbre than the lighter gauge strings will which it will throw off the sound of your guitar. I've been both a musician and luthier for over thirty years and I can't tell you how many guitars that I had to set up again because the owner had someone set it up but the way that the either whoever set it up liked or the manufacturers' recommendations. Too often it's not set to the way that the player prefers in action and this can affect your feel and the way that you play. It's not science it's simple logic and understanding along with experience that will show you the proper way to set up your guitar for optimal performance every time.

[@paultorbert6929]

This video, and those two Hero’s just told me “relax and look for a chord inversion that works better”….. Thanks Tom, Joe and Blackbird Studios !!!! Engineers, luthiers and session-musicians know all the “problem solving tricks” !!!! They should be running the world….😊😺🎸🎛🎹🎤🎶💛

[@mwyatt222]

This is why we have fan frets and multi-scale gtrs now. My Strandberg is perfectly pitched on every note. A zero fret also cures much of the gtrs shortcomings in tunability. lve always been aware of notes that were off slightly and annoyed. My Steinbergers l believe have the best tuning stability. l remember doing multiple gigs without having to retune the guitar and checking each note on my conn stroboscope and it being true the entire neck. theyre also a zero fret design. My old strats and gibsons are whacked even perfectly set-up and plekked. Theyre always off above the 12th fret slightly. Especially the B & G strings.

[@joeblechl8843]

In physics there is the Uncertainty principal; the more you know where a particle is the less you know its direction and velocity, and the more you know its direction and velocity, the less you know where it actually is. Says the more you know one thing the less you know the other. Can never know both at the same time. Also in physics, a type of fractal called Cantor dust, the more you slice down the middle there will always be more left to slice forever. Plus you look at thermodynamics the laws of heat.

[@siriusra2692]

...........Thank you guys........the best any guitarist can hope for is almost in tune...........if almost in tune was good enough for Classical Guitar virtuoso Andres Segovia .......the rest of us mere mortal guitarist don't have to sweat and worry about being a couple of cents out of tune........Jimi,Jeff and Allen didn't let it stop them......

[@Martos59]

I found this interesting and something we all struggle with. Foreigner’s It feels like the first time has the 3rd on the top for the main riff…. Play that and make it sound in tune… damn hard.

[@tylerholloway_gitpikin]

My first tuner was a fork. My teacher taught me to tune across the fretboard. I never really noticed my guitar being out of tune until I started using an electric tuner and then it drove me crazy. I looked up all the tuning tricks to try to get it right, flat the g string a semitone, etc. I finally went to an earvana nut and use hybrid across the fret board and octave tuning method. It's pretty dang close when I can hear it. On stage I'm sol.

[@davekiddie4467]

That only fixes the bottom of the neck, you need to have the bridge adjusted as well

[@tylerholloway_gitpikin]

@@davekiddie4467 oh yeah ... Intonation is on... I have played with a little bit of temper tuning as well. The Seymour Duncan site has an article on intonating the three piece tele bridge that is interesting. I have applied some of that theory too...

[@zummo61]

I’ve played for 50 years and being in tune comes down to the grip of the neck and the way you hold the guitar. You have to wrestle it to keep it in tune while you play. That’s part of the fun.

[@DSteinman]

Guitarists are always chosing voicings to avoid sour intervals! My buddy always mutes the lower 3rd in the open C shape, it's too muddy in that octave, and will do E shape bar chords without the A string for a chimier sound (of course, playing the root with thumb instead of actually barring!)

[@greyklopstock7155]

I remember seeing something where someone went through an old Van Halen record and while the video was made to showcase places where auto tune doesn't really add anything, it also showed something really cool with the guitar. The band would all tune to Eddie, and Eddie was human, so the tuning wouldn't always be perfect. But the band would be all with Eddie, and because in those days they didn't have the equipment and plugins and stuff readily available that could rapidly tell you "oh, this polyphonic instrument is however many cents off from perfectly in tune," it's just not something anyone ever concerned themselves with. Kinda like how in the tape days, you couldn't see a drum grid, or a piano roll like you can in a modern DAW. So the drummer would be playing to either a click/metronome or nothing at all. Guys like john Bonham might drag the beat A LITTLE, and it wasn't something that was "fixable," and because everyone is playing in lockstep with each other, it's just part of the vibe. But since the advent of quantization and drum grid and whatnot, people have the ability to fix those imperfections. And sometimes, we get caught up in fixing every little imperfection instead of just doing enough for it to not sound bad. Cause when you know you CAN make it perfect, it can sometimes be hard to not just default to making everything perfect

[@earlzedd5688]

I wonder if Taylor's V-Class bracing resolves the issues they're talking about.

[@gr500music6]

Fascinating and especially timely today, given the tyranny of tuning software. This discussion goes back (Bach?) to at least "The Well Tempered Clavier." Tuning is, as Tom points out, a matter of finding the best "least worst" tuning - not least of all because tunings can be tempered to be useful in a variety of keys. Many people are unaware that an F# and a Gb are not necessarily the same pitch in all situations (look it up, folks). Yes, they are the same key on a piano, so the pianist has no choice; but the actual pitch that key sounds is a matter of temperament of the instrument decided upon long ago. So it can be an additional abomination to auto-tune un-tempered instruments (like the human voice) which are capable of going exactly where the ear tells them the note is right for the key they're singing in. If it sounds good, it is good.

[@jamesha175]

i put a super deep scallop on one of my strat fingerboards and after some time with that i found myself inherently squeezing some notes into tune

[@darwinsaye]

It’s not just a guitar thing. The equal temperament that western music is built on is a compromised tuning system (well, they all are, really). Your thirds will always sound off if you listen for it. Even on a digital piano with it’s “perfect” tuning. Then you add the other idiosyncrasies of the guitar, where even simply fretting a note bends the string microtonally out of pitch… and you add to that the fact that different string gauges will bend out of pitch to different degrees, so when you fret a full chord, all your strings are bending out of tune each to a different degree. The mind filters most of it out as long as it’s not extreme, but once you really listen for it, and start hearing it, it’s really hard to Not hear it and let your mind ignore it like it normally should. Some days, even when I have everything tuned as perfectly as it ever could be (or even if I’m playing a perfectly tuned digital keyboard), I will be hearing those dissonant equal temperament compromises so clearly (especially the 3rds) that I have to just stop playing for the day.

[@jimmyhartman573]

i remember Edwrd VH saying it way back . . His guitars were never in tune , just strings relatively close to where it sounded good for the song being recorded .Mike Anthony just agreeing and tuning to whatever Edward was . .I love my Sg special and it's all about compromise with the wrap around , some fanger finagling and patience. . . Nice , i need to get some of my guitars up to Glaser soon , hate the 2 hour drive

[@stricknine8623]

This video absolutely made my day !!

[@roscoenyc]

Enjoyed this. The late great Jim Dickinson referred to tuning as a decadent European concept.

[@johng2880]

I'm reminded of the lovely, ethereal, somewhat out of tune sounds of the mellotron. It adds great character to those classic tracks from the 60s and 70s.

[@keithalanyoung]

Most non musicians ( and even many musicians, myself included ) simply won't notice and furthermore - don't care - if a few notes aren't perfectly in tune. It simply doesn't matter. For example: I remember, Brian May talking about some guitar harmonies at the end of Bohemian Rhapsody that always bothered him because he said they were out of tune. As a musician, I've listened to that song 1000 plus times and never noticed it. And now I know the bit he's talking about....It didn't spoil my enjoyment of the piece, one iota. We are talking "levels" of perfection here - and as they said at the beginning - Chuck Berry and The Beatles made music that appealed to People - not Studiophiles. Music isn't about perfection. It's about "what feels good to the Ears".

[@tommym321]

So the issue is for the player, more so than the casual listener. When I’m playing, I can immediately hear if I’m not perfectly in tune. It’s distracting and makes it harder to feel inspired.

[@ShawnTubbs]

Thirds on a guitar are a booger. Love this video!

[@TroubadourMusic]

Well I had recorded a guy once who refused to use a tuner because he was so good. He was horrible. But he was so offended that he refused. So there is getting it as close as you can and it will be what it is, but let's at least get it close. lol. Pianos are actually not tuned perfectly and if they were they would sound odd. Tuning is a great topic. There is no perfect, but close is perfectly good.

[@stringlocker]

Squeezing the strings too hard is my biggest tuning problem

[@dunxy]

I feel your pain

[@sixslinger9951]

I'm heavy handed too and really have to concentrate to be lighter but I like to dig in!

[@lorenzopiccone]

My fav RY Cooder song is "out of tune", thats the beauty of it.

[@NickBrightwell]

Great conversation and information. Is Joe related to Tompall?

[@philf4086]

The most information I got here was that there will be no humans around in 400 years. Thanks guys!

[@Gene_Cali]

Check back then.

[@sixslinger9951]

Hell, I'm not sure any humans will be here by 2050

[@johnmcevoy3598]

One thing that kills me is how you can tune one guitar for a certain kind of playing that simply will not work on another. It's almost as if the guitar is saying 'Hey, I am just not feeling that.'. Buzz Feiten did a great job imho of putting the guitar into its fewest awful combinations of notes. It seems like a BF guitar is a little dry, but you can push down or pull sideways the flat notes just sharp enough to make intervals thicken.

[@serenitynow66]

Mellow yellow I luv it!! . Awesome stuff Guyz . Yep lets not sweat the big stuff...lmao!!

[@leemichaels406]

I think after quite a few years of playing, I think I tend to slightly pull stuff in tune.

[@aminahmed2220]

What a fantastic video have a good weekend also stay safe

[@niguel4438]

My guitar was in tune when I bought it. But now? I’m taking it back! 🤪🎸

[@Dallascountryband]

Love this stuff, go as deep in the weeds as you like. Thanks Tom.

[@carlostorres1171]

The casual assertion that there will not be humans in 400 years sent me! 🤣👌🏼

[@robinmiller7958]

Avoiding the third does help enormously. Even on perfectly in tune instruments simply because of the nature of our western tuning scheme.

[@luijacat]

You must have got tom at a good time..no disagreement there ❤

[@Tonetwisters]

Fortunately, most of us don't have hearing that is "that good." Natural physics prevent many things from being perfect. I dealt with it back in the days of 35mm film photography. Hopefully, when the Millennium gets here, all that imperfection will be "FIXED"! But in the meantime, thank the Lord for guitars and tempered tuning and great tuners, and strings that get us close!

[@HenkJanDrums]

Ii really like that a guitar players tune guitars electronically at start but also extra during a session. With Melodyne exact tuning of recodings is possible. But all tuned 100% exact you take out a lot of the emotions and feel. Compared with drumming: a drummachine is exact, an amateur is just out of pocket/timing/rhyhm and a pro adds feeling and groove with the small deviations from exact. Loops recorded by pro drummers in pro studios do have that combination of feel and exact. In guitar licks i do like those small adjustments of guitar players to give tension and relief. I hate instruments just being out of tune: that really is a different thing than giving some extra tension and relief: out of tune is tension or just out of tune all over and never a relief or comfort.

[@CAGED1702]

"This instrument, the guitar, is never perfectly in-tune." ~ Wes Montgomery

[@oliverchapman51177]

I would of referenced Gordon Mote. He can whistle perfect pitch and relative pitch simultaneously, as he notices how bad you smell

[@blueishxx]

true but he's barely human more like tone god

[@Brookzplayzmuzic]

It's not about being in tube.. its about being in tune with eachother at the time

[@jaguarsunburst1570]

Great Job Man 🎸

[@JimmyDevere]

Get a strobotuner. Learn how to set up your guitar. Develop (or not depending on your talent) the "touch" that keeps it in tune. Don't hyper focus on it, but do play in tune.

[@dabidibup]

Use an electric tuner, then make sure all your chords sound good. The high strings will always need a little tweak. (Bend individual notes up and down) Play your E A and D shapes everywhere (use the octaves). Get used to what the chord sounds like, not each tuned string