The Myth of the "Lead Mare"

[@fburton8]

Great video, with lots of information. One thing you don't say explicitly, but rather tantalisingly imply throughout, is how these social structures and dynamics can or should inform the way we humans interact with and train horses. People can and will make their own interpretations. I guess one message is that casting yourself as "lead mare" is problematic, something I would wholeheartedly agree with. But what of the role of dominance? My personal view is that knowing about horse social interactions is an important part of understanding and appreciating the animal as a whole, but that attempting to apply this knowledge under the assumption that horses can, at least under some circumstances, view us as other horses is probably best avoided altogether and that we should instead concentrate on applying "learning theory" principles in as an effective and horse-friendly way that we can. (That was a bit long-winded, sorry!)

[@1Whipperin]

Thank you and keep up the good work. There are many such myths that need to be exposed in the horse world.

[@idabrinck-lund8755]

Excellent. FYI we are a group of building building Paddock Paradises, meaning walking paddock. In these groups we see horse behaviour change. For example... a very bossy horse can no longer agressively put another horse in ia corne r of a paddock because it is one big waling trail. So the horses being bullied, they just leave. This means the bossy horses ges left out. Again and again we have seen they realize they need to changebehaviour if they want to stay in the group. Also we see a very unclear hierachy. We know a horse A and B are leaders. But they seem to switch. For example they got our one day and suddenlyA absolutely changed into 2. Position while B absolutely was on 1. Position. Our lowers oldest ranking horse will lead when fireworks come up. As if she is the most experienced hence she leads. Also with fireworks we have seen very interesting behaviour. 2 or 3 tale in a watching position and seem to give messages to a second group. This second group is divided into two. One group is the scared group. They cannot help it but need to run. So lets say they create an A group thats keeps an eye, then a B group who take the lead of the c group. 3 Years in a row with new horses coming in we have seen the exact same bheaviour. Group c runs off, looks exchange between group A and B and group B runs after group C and then nicely circles in the group into a circle, keeping them safe. Wehaveseen group c circle and circle and B group patiently lets them run, but makes sure they stay in a circle. We have seen a horse believe itself to be an A, run off and then the group c ran off woth that horse, but because that horse ran away from the calm a leaders the group c switched back to believing original group a and b and was herded into control. I have experienced in that particular situation to be a part of group A. Changing the position of safety, thus getting the run off A horse to accept the position and then accepting the work of the other horses. This was such a succes that some days after when new fireworks occurred. Horse runoff A, suddenly was a B horse letting the old and the two leaders be the a team for that moment. We also observe this switch of babysitting and also teaching watch roles etc as you say. We have a mixed her from 2 to 19 with two mares and 5 geldings. In the every day we see a very compicated structure and have simply dropped the hierachy thinking. We see it more like people. The good argument wind. And typically the same horses havegold arguments. But what we do not see is a fight to become the leader. It seems in our flock that actually wveryone would prefer not to havethe job. Hence the taking turns on the particular topic in stead. On the other hand we do see the whole flock worry a lot when astrong horse gets sick. Hope you do some research into flock behaviour in paddock paradises versus ordinary paddocks. If you would liek to know why feel free to email me at [e-mail]

[@Nordic_Mechanic]

when a storm hit, ive seen the whole herd circle the foal, and move him away from the trees and kept close, protecting him from the wind and rain. Some tree broke and fell, but the horse had taken all the precautions already

[@roualla1]

Thank you. I'm french (i say that for you forgive my english...). You say harem is made with 1 to 5 stallions and their mares (how many ?). I learned (course of ethology) that a harem is made with 1 or 2 stallions not more and 1 to 5 mares ?

[@equinesciencetalkinternati9407]

Harems can vary a great deal in size - and as Laureen explains in the video, there can be up to 35 horse in a harem. However, harems are usually much smaller - as you say, more typically around 7 or 8 horses, and as Konstanze explains later in the video, as the group size increases, so does the chance that they will develop sub-goups or even split into completely separate groups. As with most scientific fields, new discoveries and observations are being made all the time, so we can't say for sure what the maximum size would be. I think what you learned is correct in as much as a harem is USUALLY one or two stallions and a few mares, but there are, of course, exceptions.

[@roualla1]

​@@equinesciencetalkinternati9407 Thank you. In a large harem with 5 stallions, I'm curious about how the sexual interactions go. Who copulates with whom? Do all stallions have access to mares? Or only 1 or 2? Do mares prefer one stallion over another? Are there any family ties between the stallions? Can we find out more with a new video or with references to articles that have appeared on this topic? Thank you very much !

[@equinesciencetalkinternati9407]

@@roualla1 Great questions! In a large harem with 5 stallions, I'm curious about how the sexual interactions go. Who copulates with whom? KK. The alpha stallion has 75% of the mating rights, the beta stallion about 25%, and the rest do not mate. Do all stallions have access to mares? KK No. Only the alpha and the beta stallion (see above) Do mares prefer one stallion over another? KK The alpha stallion is generally preferred Are there any family ties between the stallions? KK Stallions are usually unrelated, as members of horse groups generally are, because offspring disperse from their native harem at maturity and join other groups Can we find out more with a new video or with references to articles that have appeared on this topic? The most important references on this topic are: Linklater, W. L. (2000). Adaptive explanation in socio-ecology: lessons from the Equidae. Biol. Rev., 75(1), 1-20. Linklater, W. L., & Cameron, E. Z. (2000). Tests for cooperative behaviour between stallions. Anim. Behav., 60(6), 731-743. Linklater, W. L., Cameron, E. Z., Minot, E. O., & Stafford, K. J. (1999). Stallion harassment and the mating system of horses. Anim. Behav., 58(2), 295-306. Linklater, W. L., Cameron, E. Z., Minot, E. O., & Stafford, K. J. (2004). Feral horse demography and population growth in the Kaimanawa Ranges, New Zealand. Wildl. Res., 31(2), 119-128. Best wishes, Konstanze Krüger

[@roualla1]

@@equinesciencetalkinternati9407 Great ! Thanks a lot for your anwsers.

[@maximillian1109]

So basically, horse and human are very alike in how we act socially. Bet thats why we can work so well togeather. Just like how human and dog are so alike.