The National Personnel Records Fire of 1973

[@danielcostello4041]

I joined the Navy in 1976. In the 80's I was looking for a copy of my record and they told me, "We had this fire." I told them the fire was three years BEFORE I joined, Go find my record.

[@Ancient_Yuletide_Carol]

This is infamous history inside the US military veterans community, but little known outside of it. Thank you for highlighting it!

[@realazduffman]

You got that right. I do legal research and found out about it by accident and thought I found some secret. Later talking to someone in the military they mentioned it and I was surprised how they knew about it.

[@Milkmans_Son]

@@martymethuselah Marty, the racist a-hole part of your personality makes it hard to want to help the ignorant part, but what can I say... I'm a helper. First, 10 seconds spent reading Yamasaki's wikipedia page would tell you nobody "made a deal" to trade an architectual firm for a get-out-of-internment-free card or any such nonsense. The firm he worked for in Detroit pulled some strings. Talent has it's privileges. Second, architects are not engineers. Architects are responsible for how the building or structure looks, engineers are responsible for how it functions (all of which has to comply with volumes of federal, state, and local laws/regulations). Third, wet roads do not cause rain.

[@steveclark4291]

@@realazduffman most of the veterans knew because when they tried to get their benefits ! No one could find them because of the fire ! Things like this can totally erase their military enlistment , where they was stationed whether during the wars or peace time !

[@realazduffman]

@@steveclark4291 I am sure that is the case. Just saying how unless you had reason to get a record you would have had no idea.

[@Milkmans_Son]

@@martymethuselah As usual, the morally superior never wrong super genius forgets to mention where he is from. Not that anybody cares.

[@jdinhuntsvilleal4514]

I WAS THERE. I was a 20 year old part-time summer hire at the record center that year. Part time meant that out of an 80 hour pay period, I worked 79, leaving a hour early every other Friday. I worked on the bottom floor in a department that was in process of converting these records to microfilm. My job was to review the film to ensure every page had been filmed properly. The next night my friends and I went to see the fire first hand. I knew a back way toward the center that emergency equipment wouldn't use. This is almost 24 hours after the fire started, and flames were still reaching 100 feet into the air. It was really a sight to behold. About a week after the fire the center put me to work moving office equipment over to unused warehouses on Goodfellow Blvd in St. Louis. I did that until time for me to return to college. Not mentioned in the video -- the 6th floor was never rebuilt, they just cleared it off. Also, if anyone is wondering why some of the pictures showed only 5 floors, it built on a sloop, so the north side of the building the 2nd floor was at ground level, and on the other side the 1st floor was at ground level.

[@johnvinga5446]

Great info. I happened to be at the Holiday Drive-In two blocks to the west. When the fire was reported, the fire trucks just kept coming east down Page Ave. Our group could see the smoke even in the darkness, but the flames were not yet pouring out of the windows or leaping into the sky. We knew it was a professional office building of some sort, but had no idea it was the critical military personnel records center for the entire nation. What a shame.

[@patriciamueller3986]

My father in law was in the air force. His records were lost which meant he had almost no proof of his service. That in turn impacted his ability to access benefits that he needed later in life. This was a disaster for all those who lost their records in this fire.

[@rpm12091]

The VA uses the fire to deny benefits to veterans, I was discharged in 1975 and they can't find my records because they were lost in the 1973 fire ,they can't figure out why I don't believe them.

[@uruiamnot]

Your father-in-law should have his DD-214 record of discharge. It's on him if he wants benefits.

[@patriciamueller3986]

@@uruiamnot will he was very ill in the middle of trying to get those benefits and passed away.

[@veeeforvendetta]

See my new post or read.. Here is why this was done..to destory evidence of debt..according to USC Title 50 sec.501-593. Soldiers & Sailors civil Relief Act .all DD214 aka.discharge certificates are Security Instruments certificates of debt. How do you get rid of evidence of debt.. destroy it as Rome (fire) did has London did 1666 (fire) This Federal Building housed military records of the Vietnam-Korean War veterans. Under title 50 civil Relief act.. all Soldiers and Sailors were to be paid by golden silver and patents of land..which was never done. This was done again .. at the Federal building in Oklahoma City where Kuwaiti Desert storm military records were housed. Then you have World Trade Tower..WW2 and non enlisted combatants..like Rosie the Riveter..these to would be entitle to the benifits..being party of the war efforts. (All military personnel are told to take their DD214 and record them at their country recorders for safe keeping) Go to this site and look a group 1. Esp. 2002-09-09a .. This instrument is a commercial Affidavit of Truth which has summary judgment defaulted over a hundred of prominent people thst took oaths and the president of the international court of justice. Default Archive History web.archive.org/web/20060527021708/catfreedom.org:80/Default/Default%20Archive%20History.htm.. See CAT. web.archive.org/web/20061210155543/catfreedom.org:80/CAT/LEE%20COUNTY%20FLORIDA%20CAT%2007-06-2004%20600%20DPI%20SCAN.pdf and web link archive. web.archive.org/web/20060418152514/catfreedom.com/

[@josephwonderless1258]

@@rpm12091 What about his military ID card?

[@Platyfurmany]

Of all the historical events you've covered, this one probably has had a more profound and personal effect on millions of Americans (veterans and their families) than any other historical event you've covered. Thank you for bringing light to this little known disaster!

[@mikecurtin9831]

One of my noncoms told me that when he first got to Germany (he'd already been in for 10+ years at that time) they told him that they'd lost his medical records and that he'd have to get all his shots again. He reached into his brief case and handed them a full set of his records. He told the medics, "If you lose these, I've got 3 more copies." Thanks for this video, it's the first time I've heard of this fire. Thumbs up to crush a troll.

[@wilsonle61]

My Dad's Air Force DD-214 (Record of Discharge) from the Air Force dated 1956 shows signs of burns and is stamped "Best copy available". I knew his records had been in the fire, but now I know the details. Thank you so much for another wonderful historical story.

[@charlie418791]

All my Old Man's WWII records were lost in this fire. I found out the hard way. Upon learning of it , I did some research on it. Glad you brought it up , HG.👍

[@kd5byb]

My father's records got destroyed in this fire too. He was Navy, serving about the time of the Korean War. He was proud to have served in the Navy and was left with lifetime knee issues from an accident while getting on board a landing craft. While he talked much about the Navy...as our family has both a Navy and Merchant Marine history...we never heard much detail about his service. After he passed, when I got that letter back saying his records had been lost in the fire...it was upsetting...as we'll never know. Thankfully, my father-in-law's records (career Army) did not get burned. After he passed we learned he had earned a silver star in Vietnam...

[@justingrey6008]

Let me join this club by saying my father's were lost in that fire as well

[@ralphcraig5816]

@@kd5byb While in Vietnam, at MACV HQ, I was privy to the filings from the guys in Awards & Decorations . I've read the stuff it takes to get a Silver Star, as Ringo sang years ago "It Don't Come Easy". Sorry sorry a hero is gone...

[@pamelahomeyer748]

Mine too

[@kkampy4052]

Mine too.

[@matthewronsson]

As a military recruiter (ret), I personally experienced Veterans records request coming back 'not found' or images like you showed here, microfiche copies of damaged documents that may or may not have that critical line(s) of information on them. People have house fires too, and imagine requesting records after that tragedy and 'no record found' is returned to you from NRPC: widows and orphans pensions are denied as well as critical health care from service-connected disabilities and diseases. If a 'file not found' is returned, then it is up to the Veterans or Widow(ers) to recreate their own service record at their own expense, too often at a time they are least able to do this for themselves.

[@maximummarklee]

A+! I was the program manager for the project to digitize operations at the NPRC and learned a great deal about its history. After the fire, they used Bobcat mini-dozers up on the 5th floor to clear the rubble off before installing a new roof on the 5th floor, which became the roof now. The entire of the records will NOT be digitized; they have an algorithm that predicts where the most records will be requested, which triggers them to be digitized from the original forms or microfiche. If the record cannot be found, they had an old PC there with a list of known records to have been lost in the fire, and then reconstructed from other sources like Social Security, the Armed Services branches, NIH, Bethesda Naval Hospital and other facilities. At the time I worked on the project in 1999 there were still records going back through the Civil War.

[@jennaolbermann7663]

As a family historian, I have run up against this problem in my research. It’s a terrible loss of information on so many levels.

[@christ186]

My dad was a WWII vet in the 6th Army. He went north through Italy. He never told me anything about his service, my older siblings heard very little. Just the funny stuff. I sent for his records and was given information about he fire and that his records were lost. Thanks History Guy for this episode, I guess knowing so many others are feeling the effect of this is in some way a strange comfort. I thoroughly enjoy your channel, please keep up the great work!

[@MrGameMeister]

Yup, my grandfather's Army service records for WW2 were destroyed in this fire. It's a shame, as we wanted to research a possible second purple heart that his letters home seemed to indicate. He was killed in October 1944 after having been awarded the Silver Star in action around the Vosges Mountains in France.

[@elvinpena8788]

Thank you History Guy. My dad's records where lost / damaged in that fire. He was a Korean War Vet and served in the Army from 1950 to 1954. Like most combat Vet's I know, he never spoke about anything service related; his records are lost forever and I have always wanted to know more about what happened on that fire incident.

[@Big_Un]

I was told that my fathers records had been lost in this fire. He served in the Army Air Corp / United States Air Force from 1939 to 1945ish but we've been unable to pin down dates and details due to the loss. Thank You HG for covering this story. You provided more details about this incident than we ever had before.

[@jordanulery524]

This fire delayed for years my grandmother collecting her husband’s pension. The only record of awards are photographs of grandpa in dress uniform, his brevet promotion congratulations from an old commander & friend (Patton, with whom he served in KY-Sicily), and ribbon bars/medals. Grandpa’s service extended from 1918 (enlisted on his 18th birthday in February/discharged in November) to 1975 USAR with a break after WW1 for college, commission in the Reserve, service at Ft Knox during The Depression and very active duty in WW2 (North Africa, Sicily, Italy), IG directed assignments work in Korea & Vietnam.

[@tophers3756]

I hope she received retroactive payouts.

[@Potato-Eye]

Thank you for his service. I hope his honor is upheld with the passing of time. My condolences

[@rebeccabeedy4015]

I lived 15 miles from the records facility and clearly remember this fire. It affected our lives - all the way down to traffic patterns - for a very long time. Even all these years later, I'm still being impacted as I do genealogical research. Thank you for covering this story so well. The fire was and is a tremendous loss to the nation and personally, as well.

[@brainfat1]

To paraphrase Sarah Palin, I almost literally can see it from my house. I still remember going to the drive-in west on Page to see Superman.

[@zalmaflash]

@@brainfat1 Holiday drive-in. I lived 2 blocks from the Airway drive-in. Remember this fire well.

[@johnvinga5446]

@@zalmaflash Myself and some buddies were at the Holiday Drive-In when the fire was reported. We remember coiuntless fire trucks zooming east on Page Ave. responding to the fire. Even though dark, smoke could be seen pouring from the building. We had no idea the building housed such vital records. I recall the St. Louis TV news being very critical of how the records were stored combined with the total lack of fire suppression technologies.

[@williamcarnell2251]

I live in Alton, Illinois about 25 miles north of downtown St. Louis and also on the Mississippi & Missouri rivers. On August 9, 1973 I was set to go to Lackland AFB for basic training and the day of this fire I watched it on TV news from almost constant coverage that day. As a result I saved a copy of every order, training document, promotion and other paperwork I thought important. I still have mine locked up in a fire safe in my bedroom. I love your videos, especially the one on our local icon the Alton Giant. Keep up the good work.

[@DrGonzo2781]

I routinely come across destroyed records as part of my job. This fire that happened all those years ago still impact veterans and their survivors in a very real and tangible way. Such a shame.

[@jeremiahjacobson8456]

My grandfather received a letter from an old Marine Corps buddy after this. It read something along the lines of: "As your records have been destroyed, you are to report for duty to officially complete your enlistment. Please bring with you a copy of the book 'How to be a Spy Behind Enemy Lines in North Vietnam'."

[@crazioma6648]

My dad's entire thirty-three year military service record was gone in a flash from this fire. Thank God he had always kept his own. He died in 1983 of glass embedded in his body in a 1944 explosion in Belgium, for which he got his second of four purple heart awards. If he had not diligently kept his own records my mom would have had little hope of getting his Veteran's benefits for a service connected death. The doctor who did his autopsy removed several thin shards of glass from his chest that had laid there for thirty-nine years, one that ultimately got into his heart and unexpectedly killed him. "Where else do you think this man got such bits of glass and metal into him - fishing?" he wrote. My dad's great organizing habits of a lifetime taught me to never let someone else keep such important matters.

[@johnvinga5446]

Amazing and touching history of your father.

[@marks.schwartz8468]

Thank you for covering this tragedy in such great detail.

[@f6was9]

I grew up a few blocks from there and my dad worked next door in the Army publications bldg. I Remember the fire well.people were finding partially burned records in their yards for weeks after the fire.

[@capt.stubing5604]

My uncle and namesake’s, CPL Alfred Sullivan, records were lost in this fire. He was killed, along with the entire crew of his B-17, in a crash in Japan in April of 1946. He was 20 years old. This fire has made piecing back together his service records for our family very difficult. But don’t give up. They deserve to be remembered. He is buried in a single plot with his entire crew at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery in St. Louis. I was able to visit with my son a few years ago when we finally found him. We were able to find out what happened to him by searching the names of the rest of the crew. Some of who’s records were found through various sources.

[@johnvinga5446]

Very touching story. Thanks for sharing.

[@walkingtrails7776]

Seriously, no one thought to make copies and put in different locations, knowing how important these documents were? Nothing but geniuses working here.

[@rickyrox341]

My Dad's Army records were lost in that fire and my Mom lost 7 years of spousal Radiation survivor benefits. He'd been in Hiroshima and when he died in 1978, more than half of his regiment, the 163rd, had died of Leukemia.

[@khausere7]

As a county Veterans Service Officer, I run into the issue of NPRC file requests regularly. Many of my veterans served from the late 60s and earlier, and if they didn't keep their own copies of their discharge forms it can be challenging to prove active service. Moreover, it can delay accessing VA benefits for months, if not years. We recently learned through Congressional inquiries the NPRC is only working at about 10% capacity because of COVID so the delays are even longer. Of course I had heard the story of the Fire of '73 but didn't know as much detail. Thank you for presenting this, because it allows me to more fully explain the tragedy to my aging veterans.

[@Andrew-13579]

Another piece of history I was completely unaware of. Thank you for reporting it to us. Fire sprinklers might do water damage to a small area, but that's better than losing a whole floor or entire building! It's 40-some years later, but in that time, I have never encountered a sprinkler being activated accidentally...not saying it hasn't happened. But I certainly have seen buildings without sprinklers gutted by fire.

[@Dave-in-MD]

That jeep with the monitor on the back was just too cool.

[@SquishyZoran]

And I think that’s a fire truck that even my mom would like! Lol

[@therogueadmiral]

Wait, what? I'm not sure what youre referring to, I must have missed it.

[@Dave-in-MD]

@@therogueadmiral Time stamp 4:03

[@therogueadmiral]

@@Dave-in-MD ah, I see now. Why do you call it a monitor? Also, thanks for the time stamp, I was just expecting a short description, or no response at all.

[@Dave-in-MD]

@@therogueadmiral Monitor or Deck Gun. It just refers to a large diameter nozzle mounted to a sturdy platform that can be trained and elevated. A single person can direct the stream where as if it was just a nozzle on the end of a hose it would require several people to control it.

[@Me2Lancer]

Thank you for sharing details of the record center fire. As a Vietnam Navy veteran who received my DD-214 in 1966 and Discharge in 1967 I was concerned. Fortunately, I have registered successfully with the VA. Prior to registration with the VA I was concerned.

[@stevetessier6568]

This video really hammered home the truth,in the words." Oh it's good enough for government work". My dad's entire Army service record. Was lost due to this insanity of no fire suppression system installation.And naturally no one was ever held accountable for their gross deriliction.

[@johnvinga5446]

Rarely is anyone in government held accountable for incompetence, negligence or corruption. Look what has happened to our government now--a weaponized DOJ, FBI, CIA, IRS, etc. against a conservative presidential candidate and later sitting president. Combine this with a no longer fair and unbiased news media, and our republic is in some serious jeopardy. If anyone thinks there is no deep state, he or she has not been paying attention, is in denial, or is at the very least tacitly supporting our loss of freedoms.

[@jamesbednar8625]

Great video!!! Well known incident within the military. This is the primary reason why I insisted and got 2 copies of all my records upon retirement way back in those ancient days of 2001. Since I work on a military installation, I always tell every soldier that I encounter that is getting out of the military for whatever reason to get copies of everything.

[@gregbrockway4452]

Thank you THG, I think that you just solved a riddle that has been bothering me for decades. Over 20 years ago I sent a request to the Veterans Administration asking for duplicates of my father’s service records. He was in World War 1 and passed away when I was very young. Never heard a peep from them, not even a “your request cannot be honored at this time”. Thank you so very much for clearing up this enigma for me.

[@phillipburroughs146]

I’ve said it in the past and I’ll say it again. I love your stories. These so-called “snippets“ that you review and disseminate are life lessons that are tantamount to who we are as Americans. You are the single most greatest “storyteller“ I’ve ever seen in my life. You are the modern “Paul Harvey”! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[@DaveC_TN]

My dad was a Korean War era dual-service Navy and Army Vet. He was dishonorably discharged because of fighting caused by a medical condition discovered in 1971. We were unable to get his discharge reversed and benefits restored for him because of this disaster. He passed without resolution to the wrongful discharge status and never received the benefits he earned and was entitled to because of this one event. I can't imagine how many others lost critical information that would have changed their lives because of poor decision making at the outset of building this records center. Glad they've got a more modern facility now and have digitized most records these days. At least I know my record is safe... Great presentation about this disaster!! Thank you for telling the stories of 'History that Deserves to be Remembered!'

[@danieltalbot8348]

As a former Fire Chief I found this video very interesting . The fear of flooding is a common misconception about fire sprinklers. The failure rate for sprinklers is less than one in one million . Another misconception is that when one head. activates, they all activete, I am sure a properly functioning sprinkler system would have suppressed the fire.

[@johnvinga5446]

Right you are.

[@kathytrieschmann9622]

I was a summer hire at The Military Personnel Records Center and noticed the air was hazy as we were signing out at the end of our shift. Along with 4 other friends, we went thru the stairwells, opening doors on each floor to see if anything was unusual . When we opened the door to the 6th floor, we saw the records stored in cardboard boxes on open file cabinets were on fire. We ran downstairs, reported tp the guard on duty, and fled the building. We watched the 6th floor burn . kt.

[@johnvinga5446]

Was the fire already out of control when you fled the building, or could some quick work with fire extinguishers have helped slow the inferno down a bit? I guess my real concern is did the guard get immediate help to try to suppress the fire or was it already a job for professional fire engine companies? As I wrote elsewhere on this site, I was at the Holiday Drive-In Movie Theater just a couple blocks away. I remember seeing the smoke pouring from the building and fire engine companies racing east down Page. The magnitude of the catastrophe wasn't evident until much later as we all know....

[@Jerry-rf8bn]

Thank you for posting this. I am an Air Force veteran (1964-1968) and all my records were lost in this fire. At the time, when the fire was reported, there was little detailed reporting about the incident so, your video really helped me understand the facts. Fortunately, except for my DD214 which I have in my home file, I have not needed to access my veteran records for any VA benefits except for the educational stipend which was used up prior to 1973.

[@leewilson1368]

Ask a government committee to design a task, a building, an outdoor toilet. The result will be disastrous and no government employee will ever be held accountable.

[@loriboufford6342]

No ill wished upon the Firefighters but it seems to me that if they would have notified all Army, Marines, Navy Air Force retired or active personnel within the US, because service knows no bounds, the fire would have been out lickety-split.

[@tony12165]

But at least the toilet would have sprinklers and fire suppression system

@@tony12165 Yes,but the cost to the taxpayer for a toilet standard flush type would be $1,000,000.00 and might even say Made In Mexico or China We have met the enemy and he is us Walt Kelly 1959 Pogo

[@wkdravenna]

Lee, I propose a $50,000 budget. You and I could use that money to study why people use restrooms and what color we should make them.

[@leewilson1368]

@@wkdravenna Never go "short" in the land of plenty. Spend $50 k on democrat lobbyists and get a $50 mil grant. We can split up the states we will cover. I'll take Hawaii and Florida. Plenty freaky in those corners!

[@MK0272]

I heard about a fire affecting military records and have long been curious about it. Thank you for doing this episode!

[@kenshores9900]

You summarized the extent of the loss and it’s significance. Good video.

[@evinchester7820]

I had been in the USAR for less than six months when I met a Korean War vet who had come to our HQ. I'd been in the Army and had decided to be a drilling Reservist. His records had been destroyed in that fire. It was the first I'd ever heard of it. Later I met another man who was full time Reserves. He had an older Sgt who told him to make copies of all his records. When he asked why he showed him his 201 file. It was burned around the edges. He told him how it had happened. After that, he kept a copy to be safe. Now, my stuff is digitized. I have my Medical records. I thought they had been lost. I now need to get a digital copy of my 201 file. Great video. And just FYI, I went by that place in St. Louis. IT IS HUGE. HUGE.....

[@muvs32pap]

Thank you 'The History Guy' for making this video to bring attention to this event that had such consequences for the country, and military veterans in particular. My father, was a Korean war Vet. and received two purple hearts during his service. One of the medals was from the lose of hearing due to infection. My father was quite hard of hearing from his early twenties on. After retiring he finally was able to receive some compensation but it was a demeaning affair for him. Due to his hearing lose he took me along to his deposition as a 16 year old. I was aware from experience from a young age how little our government truly cares for it's veterans. My father had some pretty horrible PTSD along with the hearing loss and the dept. of Vet. affairs were less than helpful. The fact that my fathers case was far from the worst is what is most upsetting for me. My father ask for no pity and raised me to ask for help from no government and no man. Rest in peace dad...I know he did the best he could with what he had. My thoughts are with all those who have personally struggled or have family members who have struggled with the government due to this event. Unfortunately , in my opinion, if it wasn't this fire it would have been something else.

[@roxismith6122]

Thank you for covering this tragedy. While working on my family tree I learned of this fire because my grandfather's military records from WWI were destroyed.

[@johncashwell1024]

As a vet, I understand just how important those records are to the service members, their families, genealogists, historians, and to our country. My grandfather served in the Pacific during WW2 and had enlisted in 1935. His records survived that fire but it took years before that fact was known. Luckily, he had already been going to the VA Medical Center at Fort Bragg so a few of his records were there so that he could receive his medical benefits. This devastating fire and irreplaceable loss of records served as a stern warning to the future and affected the way archives and artifacts were stored and protected from then on.

[@user-td1zo3tv9p]

What a terrible tragedy to have take place. Hopefully steps and measures have been taken to prevent such a tragedy from EVER happening again! Thank you, THG, for presenting this video snippet. These are ALWAYS appreciated and I look forward to my weekly dose of forgotten history. God Bless.

[@densealloy]

As a retired Marine, I made copies of my SRB and Medical File whenever I had access to them over the years because of this fire. I recently requested a copy from the national records and within a day I received a PDF of everything. They have learned from this tragedy but it was an expensive lesson.

[@fredsetser7222]

I remember this fire as I lived only a couple miles from it in Bridgeton. I remember going by the building as a 13 yr old and seeing all the damage done. This was a big story in the St. Louis area

[@johnvinga5446]

Yes, the fire was on the TV news and in the Post-Dispatch and Globe-Democrat for days. I recall the news being very critical of the insufficient safety measures in place to protect the records. KMOX-TV (now KMOV) reported some records were not put in the metal file cabinets until they were processed. So as records came into the facility, they were stored in cardboard boxes sitting out in passage ways until they could be placed into the metal file cabinets. It probably goes without saying these records would have fueled the fire very quickly.

[@ralphwallace2223]

My father’s records were totally destroyed in that fire from his service during WW II including serving under Patton in the Battle of the Bulge. Some months ago I had suggest to the History Guy to do this story. I don’t know if my suggestions were the impetus to do this, but this was a very complete discussion and very enlightening.

[@tophers3756]

Thanks for this. I live in St. Louis and have heard about the fire in passing through the years. While I knew the loss was catastrophic, I didn't know about the very involved, intensive recovery efforts.

[@johnvinga5446]

Just think about the money/labor/grief spent trying to recover/restore the millions of records lost compared to what it would have cost to have outfitted the building with the proper fire suppression. Typical government ineptitude and carelessness in protecting invaluable records of the millions of military personnel serving their country. Hope the new records center in Spanish Lake is far superior in day-to-day protection of people's vital records.

[@guyh.4553]

My dad's service records were all lost in this disaster. This is why I keep my own personal records secured privately & it's a good suggestion for all to do

[@RiverRev]

Thank you! My father's records were lost in this fire. When he was seeking benefits for our family while suffering from a terminal disease, his only proof of service was a DD-214 in his possession and the purple heart that he earned in combat. This fire was a major loss.

[@Dezmo888]

Hi. Fairly new fan here, thoroughly enjoying the videos. Id like to suggest a topic: the 1930s DKW RT125 motorcycle. Its blueprints were distributed copyright-free just after WWII, and the design served as the basis for several motorcycle company's initial offering, (Most notably, Yamaha and Suzuki) as well as copied by existing motorcycle companies (Harley Hummer, BSA Bantam, etc). Its a design that literally put millions of people the world over on 2 wheels, and kickstarted (no pun intended) an industry that the world sorely needed in its post-war bombed out state. I would be happy to provide details on the machine and the technology that made it special, as well as the many variations made of the design worldwide. And even history of the DKW company itself.

[@thomasmcgehrin4205]

My dads service records were destroyed that day. The only copy of his records is the dd14 that was sent to the post office when he started there. The rest of his record is gone.

[@sandracaster308]

Thomas McGehrin My dad’s and mine were also destroyed, I only have my dd214 that I got when I was discharged

[@LordDragon1965]

My father's records are gone, Air Force '50-'53 RIP 1999

[@briansmith9439]

Not necessarily. My grandfather's WWI records were lost in the fire but the Veterans Administration had a complete copy of his military records. It was at the last place he was treated at the VA. Once found, his file was transferred to the VA nearest to me and I was able to obtain photocopies of the more-than 400 pages going back to his US Army induction physical exam.

[@slowturtle6745]

As are my Fathers. A Korean War vet and my Grandfathers a WW1 vet. We had some luck with tracking state draft records and local archives but the official Gov records are gone.

[@steveclark4291]

@@briansmith9439 the thing of it is for some who was never treated at a VA facility then their records could gone for good . My dad tried to get his VA benefits many many years ago ! But some A-hole took his ID card and threw it in the trash saying that it wasn't any good ! He finally got his benefits about five years ago ! Sadly he passed away three years ago from Pancreatic Cancer ! He was a Korean War veteran !

[@rogerwhittle2078]

A tragedy indeed THG and thank you for making this episode. Although the records could not contain my family's records, I do know the sadness their loss can cause. Many British records were destroyed in a fire and others were destroyed in the Blitz. My Grandfather, an ambulanceman in the RAMC (Royal Army Medical Corps) served on the Somme and in Salonika and was wounded in both places. His records were destroyed in the Blitz and he died many years before I thought to ask him about it. A tiny bit of history that deserves to be remembered, but which has now gone forever. My sympathies for the family's of all the American Servicemen who have similarly 'disappeared'.

[@TNgrandee3]

Thank you so much, History Guy, for this video. This really hits home to me and my family. Both my paternal and maternal relative's last names begins with the letter "H". I had five uncles and my Dad in WWII and one uncle in the Korean conflict as well as later military service of my brothers and myself who lost our military records in this fire . All we have now are the records we were discharged with. I had trouble proving myself a veteran in order to get a Veterans ID because of this fire and I am sure many veterans have dealt with this tragedy for years.

[@jeffbangkok]

Sigh..This comes up frequently in the 8th Army air force Facebook group that my dad was in..History that touches many of us personally

[@bobbertee5945]

I recently tried to get some information on my grandfather's service, he served in the Army Air Corp in the Pacific during WW2, received notice back that his records were destroyed in the fire, my family doesn't really know much about his service, we know he was wounded at one time, where he enlisted and when and that's about it...…. he didn't speak about it...

[@mattkaustickomments]

Oh crud, I have a relative who was in the 8th... I wanted to request his records but doesn’t sound too promising, have you been to the 8th AF museum outside of Savannah, GA?

[@jeffreym.keilen1095]

About 8 years ago, I help a former girlfriend research her father's Army history. 99% of his records were lost in that fire. It was interesting that what she did get from them, were the actual burnt documents. She was very happy to get what she did. As a Cold War solder from the '80's, I was equally happy to get a full copy of my records. Just to have. I highly recomend ANY and ALL Veterans to get copies of their records,just incase something like this happens again. Thank you,History Guy for remembering this.👍🇺🇸

[@RBMD2A]

History Guy, as a former Department of Veterans Affairs employee I have had the opportunity to work with Veterans who lost records because of the fire. I have also seen records with char marks and even taught a class to my colleagues regarding the process of trying to obtain substitute evidence. I only wish there was more that could have been done.

[@clark57225]

Thank you for all that you did do. This video clearly demonstrates the dedication that records personnel brought to the task of preserving and restoring records. From the efforts of you and your colleagues, many millions of records were saved that might otherwise been abandoned as irrecoverable.

[@steveclark4291]

Thank you for doing the best that you could considering what happened !

[@tsette]

A few years back my dad and I checked to see if we could get my Grandfathers file. It was destroyed, but due to work done by the center they were able to determine his awards and other small bits of information. I feel that since all of the data is missing its hard to tell exactly what he did. It breaks my heart that this happened. Thanks for going over the story.

[@apo18llo]

Two of my great-grandfathers served in the army during World War One. It breaks my heart that their records are forever lost because of this fire.

[@ibapyba1542]

My wife's father had served in the Philippines during world war II. She discovered that his records had been lost due to a fire while she was researching her family history. This disturbed her as she had understood that he was a conscientious objector and yet was under the impression had he had also been awarded several medals. He had passed away before I had met her. Her mother had also passed before my wife had begun her research. I know that this loss effected her. Appreciate the info as now I can give her the exact details. Thank you.

[@chachadodds5860]

Sadly, the consequences of losing access to military benefits due to lack of proof of service, is the most disturbing, and shameful aspect of this "tragedy." There are still veterans suffering because of it.

[@qbertq1]

A few years after my father died, I wanted to see if I could retrieve his service records (he fought in the Korean War after graduating from Pennsylvania Military College). When I submitted the request, I got a response warning me that roughly 90% of the Army service records from that time had been destroyed in this fire. About 3 months later, I received a generic envelope in the mail. It contained my father's records. Thank you for this episose, HG.

[@MariaColon879]

I didn't know anything about this incident in history. I guess I just assumed that all records were maintained at the National Archives building in Washington DC. As one who comes from many family members who have served in the military from WWII to present, I will encourage my family to preserve and make copies of all known military records and to keep them in fireproof safe deposit boxes. Thank you so much for taking the time to bring us these precious tidbits of history!

[@steveg5933]

Thing is when records come up missing that fire is still blamed by the NPRC. I served in the Navy 1986-1996. There was some issues I was attempting to resolve regarding my service that only my service record could resolve. I was told by the VA that the Navy had my SRB. Navy said no it was at the NPRC. I called St. Louis and was told point blank it was destroyed in the fire. To which I replied then they must have figure out time travel. They would have needed to to jump to 96, then return back to 73. A full 13 YEARS before I joined the Navy. Oh and in 73 I was 8. It took 21 years and the help of my congressman to ultimately get a copy made from microfilm. The original has never been found

[@Pfsif]

All the government workers responsible for this tragedy were severely promoted.

[@knutdergroe9757]

I know you are sarcastic, and trying to make light..... The truth be told, WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, are responsible for the actions of our government. Good or Bad, we have allowed incompetence at every level. Stop electing Lawyers, Stop electing professional Politicians (anyone with two terms or more, in any elected office). Hold all politicians accountable, for the sins of bureaucracy. And last but not least, no Federal Judges or attorneys in any office after 12 years. No benefits (at least none better then Veterans and retired military) after leaving office for any of these idiots. Here is a Big one, Stop referring to your self as a Democrat or Republican, Conservative or liberal, How about AMERICAN. I THINK AT SHOULD BE THE PRIORITY.

[@dwarden3]

@@knutdergroe9757 Straight to the bone! The way it should be.

[@steveclark4291]

@@knutdergroe9757 I totally agree with you on everything you said !

[@vincentpellegrino789]

No Sprinklers. No fire suppression system. How the fire started????? Can you tell this was a Government-run Facility?

[@michaelmoffett7293]

Vincent Pellegrino wilfull ignorance is what it was. The worst kind of ignorance. Very typical of government agencies. I know, I have worked for three.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Fire and building codes are like airline regs. They are made based on blood and crashes. It was not till the MGM hotel fire in Las Vegas that codes got a big update.

[@bf1255]

Because the Triangle Shirtwaist fire was an absolute triumph for the private sector.

[@RyanB.-pk5qj]

B. It was also a hundred year BEFORE the government had its own fire disaster. So your argument is fucking stupid

[@loditx7706]

B. You are so right. A couple of knee jerk reactions, a few headlines, and all is forgotten or never known.

[@jamesa702]

my father's records are still and always uncertain behind a veil of smoke...

[@dimesonhiseyes9134]

A several years ago my employer had a pipe freeze and burst over a weekend. It flooded a basement and damaged personnel records for 10's of thousands of employees past and present. They almost immediately sent them to a company to freeze dry and recover. It has caused issues for years now.

[@Monster11B]

This is even well known about in later veteran circles. I heard about it in the 90's while serving. Thank you for bringing this back into focus. Your channel is a gem.

[@bradsavory9880]

Wow. What a story. It amazes me how well you do this.

[@chrisj197438]

The worst thing is that some honor flights will refuse veterans because their DD214 was destroyed in the fire. One man who was a D-Day veteran was recently denied a flight to Normandy because of this. He had to have friends raise the money for him to go and be a part of the 75th anniversary.

[@josi4251]

In the 1980's I was hired in the St. Louis area as a temp to make electronic/digital copies of military documents. It's a shame that this fire took place even though the same technology existed before the fire.

[@FlashintheBand86]

Thank you for sharing information about this devastating fire. My grandfather's WWI records and my father's Korean War records from the army were all lost. All we have is a few personal documents they had in their possession to prove they served. As a former archivist, I hope never see such a tragedy occur again.

[@oveidasinclair982]

The US is still suffering the effects from that fire due to the records loss

[@therugburnz]

I'm sure there are vets that have difficulty still as well as other people that lost there "I was a person before." records. I'm also concerned we still aren't sure how many records(&therefore people) are missing.

[@gusmc2220]

My dad still has trouble with his Vet benefits and stuff because of it.

[@0Hillbilly]

Yes, the VA is still today denying care and compensation to veterans who lost their records in that fire. The only way they can get any assistance is to have multiple witness sign notorized statements and provide proof the witness was there. Problem is the witness lost their records as well.

[@oldgundog4705]

This hit home for me. Truly educational! The total of my father's WW2, and service in Korea records consists of his personal picture album. When he requested information from his service records, all they were able to supply was a letter stating that he had been in the Army during those times.

[@lonestarpatriot5511]

Thank you for posting this video. My father died in 1994. He was buried with the American flag he served in the Navy. I have tried many times to track his paperwork down. Then i found out yrs ago this place burned.

[@lynnwood7205]

I kept my military records in a fire safe, however the high temperatures of the horizontal firestorm of the Camp Fire of 2018 in Paradise California incinerated them and the fire safe. The ones lost were important to me as matters of personal history but luckily I was already established or proven as a a veteran. But it hurts. I can only imagine the pain of so many others.

[@edwardlouisbernays2469]

@Linn Wood "Lynn" Wood is an American attorney and he kept mo his military records in a fire safe, however the high temperatures of the horizontal firestorm of the Camp Fire of 2018 in Paradise California incinerated them and the fire safe. Lin Wood conspiracy theorist. Following his graduation from law school in 1977, Wood worked as a personal injury lawyer, focusing on medical malpractice litigation. He became known as a "celebrity lawyer" specializing in defamation lawsuits. You apparently are no fool.

[@edwardlouisbernays2469]

Your name shows up on my Telephone often, did I sell you a Red Jazz Guitar? I have the Plate that covers Neck Adjuster hole for guitar, Custom Model,

[@lynnwood7205]

@@edwardlouisbernays2469 Thank you for your question but no I am not that Lynn Wood

[@RGC-gn2nm]

Always keep a copy. Since basic training that was beat into our heads.

[@jnichols3]

My father was in the AF in during the Korean War. I remember him mentioning that his records were lost during this event. While he still had his own copies of much of the paperwork, there were gaps. Because he had been involved in the handling of information that been considered "classified" at the time of his discharge (1956) he did not have complete paper copies of all his job duties. Information that would not be considered classified today was lost in 1973. Fortunately he had enough records that it did not effect his benefits, so he had no problems with the VA in the last few years of his life when he needed them most. I think that this was because he held on to all his personal records that he recieved while he was in the service. When he died in 2015 we still had that box and still have it today.

[@kevinjones893]

I lived 6 miles from the record center as a kid and I could see the smoke from my front porch. at the time my father said that's the federal records center burning, I had no idea what it was, funny I would end up working there 31 years later.

[@chelinfusco6403]

Wow. Lack of ventilation, firewalls and a to, to, to large of a building. Disaster waiting to happen and it did. My father-in-law's military records are gone. A lot of people affected.

[@dbcooper9935]

Thank you. I just learned about this event a few months ago when I requested my grandfather's WW2 service records. This would have been the most information about the man I never knew, but the gov't took that away. They were able to provide some info, thanks to the efforts you described, but ultimately, very little.

[@williamjohnson4475]

My dad's Army records were lost in the fire and it in the long run cost him a lot in the form of what he should have gotten thru the VA for his WWII injuries. As did a lot of WWII Vet's.

[@RegularJoe419]

I was 9yrs old when this happened and remember ashes floating down in my yard 3 miles north of there, my father worked for Alberici construction co and helped on renovating the building

[@cattitude16]

Thank you History Guy for a well done video on this records tragedy. I found out about it when trying to get my Dad’s WWII Army records years ago. All burned up.

[@timvest2192]

I think you history guy I first found out about this or heard of this in the late seventies when I was trying to retrieve some records of my own from the early 70s and was told that maybe they had been lost in the big st. Louis Records Center fire, which I thought was an urban legend, or simply a lie from the government, this was after all the post-watergate era. Ten years later I had an occasion to look for those records once again and this time they turned up so a happy ending for me. Thank you for adding some information to the retelling of my tale.

[@brachio1000]

Ten years ago, my father was suffering from dementia, and my mother had been diagnosed with the cancer that would eventually take her. She and I tried to get some help with my dad. The oh-so smug local Veterans' Affairs representative kept checking his watch during the brief conversation and seemed more than happy to tell us of this fire.

[@thesmiths2675]

The DOD has a time machine because even though this happened in 1973, military records all the way up to 2022 are still being destroyed by it.

[@johnvinga5446]

Yes, how very convenient an excuse this fire has turned out to be.

[@robertporterfield9578]

As a fire protection engineer, I have found that the attitudes that contributed to the record's loss is still prevalent; often based more on anecdote than facts regarding the issues of loss due to sprinkler system failures versus fire. Other prevalent attitudes are "there is nothing here that can burn" and "we've never had a fire." Some lessons take a long time to learn.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Would a CO2 or Halon system been a option to sprinklers?

[@user-td1zo3tv9p]

@@WALTERBROADDUS, probably but remember that those systems of fire suppression weren't in widespread use during that time period.

[@johns7734]

Robert Porterfield - Much of this is Hollywood's fault. How many movies have been made where a match held under one sprinkler head sets off the entire system flooding the entire building? In fire school, I was taught that it is exceedingly rare that any fire activates more than two sprinkler heads since the water is applied directly at the seat of the fire, usually while the fire is still in its incipient stages. A proper sprinkler system would probably have limited the damage to a few hundred to a few thousand records instead of millions.

[@johns7734]

@@WALTERBROADDUS - CO2 or Halon (no longer legal, but widely used at the time) work best in smaller rooms and areas where the suppressant can be contained and fresh air excluded. The way that the building appeared to be set up was with wide open areas with no fire walls or walls of any kind. The amount of CO2 needed to snuff out the fire would also have snuffed out the employees working in the area. Water sprinklers would have worked fine since the ceilings were low enough that the heat of any incipient fire would have triggered a sprinkler head and limited the fire's spread.

[@matthewronsson]

The gubbermint had archives but apparently no trained archivists. I have to wonder what facts were cited in the assertion that sprinklers were more dangerous/higher risk than fires.

[@williamshafer1996]

My father's records were lost in that fire. Thank you for bringing this to peoples attention. Great show.

[@steveclark4291]

Thank you for sharing this with us ! Being a veteran myself I'm grateful for your video !

[@BlindSpot1000]

My father served in the US Army Corp of Engineers during Korea. His records were among the many thousands that were destroyed. I remember his frustration in trying to piece together his Army service when he was in the Ohio Air National Guard. Those records were needed for his retirement and promotion points. He was able to piece together enough to satisfy the Air Guard, but we will never know the extent of his service due to the fire, especially as he passed in 1992. To this day we don't know with certainty the awards he received, his duty stations, or much of anything else pertaining to his Army service. It's something I want to pass on to my children and grandchildren along with my own service as part of our family history. His experience impressed upon me the value of keeping a personal copy of my own record of service.

[@johnkelley9877]

What a tragedy. Thanks for sharing this little known event that affected so many lives.

[@mikeharris50]

I am a retired navy veteran. A good friend of mine and shipmate when he retired was very fortunate to have saved his own copies of all of his personal records. This became invaluable in verifying he's retirement points. I suppose many others that did not have the foresight to save copies of their paperwork suffered in later years all because of this fire.

[@adrianlarkins7259]

I am amazed that in relatively modern times a building was erected to house millions of vital records WITHOUT proper fire safety equipment installed. It smacks of "corner cutting". The other thing was "too many eggs in one basket". All those records under one roof is not clever.

[@Dan-iv9tg]

Thank you sir, for satisfying a very real need that was previously satisfied by the history channel, before they somehow became a reality show medium. I very much enjoy your content, and hope you get a syndicated show soon. I would love to see some episodes about the Middle Ages and the Roman Empire.

[@fredkeele6578]

I worked in Overland Mo for couple years from 2014-2016. Remember seeing this building and wondered how many documents were housed there.

[@johnvinga5446]

The building has since been demolished, correct?