The NEW ARGUMENT For LeBron Being THE GOAT

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🟣VID I REACTED TO: • They Can't Keep Gettin...

[@ToBeHonestWitchu]

Coming from someone who’s been watching the nba since 1981, watching the game’s greatest players play out their careers, i don’t have an issue with people who say that bron is the goat. I personally have mj, but if you think it’s bron i don’t laugh at it. What i do laugh at is people who put kobe over bron. That’s funny.

[@Theprophet004]

Finally a rational thinker it’s really all about what you value more from a player

[@L3FTANDRIGHTHAND0FG0D]

Facts

[@khalilwoodard3311]

Wow bro I fwu 😂 the most accurate

[@chaihavertz9203]

Facts. At the end of the day, its Bron , MJ and everybody else.

[@michaeld.wilkins7124]

How is Bron over Kobe

[@dadlessgamerGND]

If you switch the time they came in they both wouldn’t have the skill sets they ended up with. Prime example is the 3pt line. I’m not sure exactly when they implemented it but mj already had started mastering his game when it was invented. To say lebron would be chucking 3s in the 80s and 90s while mj would be taking long 2s in the 2010s is stupid honestly

[@shemgilbert1991]

Not too mention LeBron is a far better finisher than anything else and the 80/90's had the best big men we've ever seen outside of jokic and Howard. People act like LeBron would be running to the rim on Ewing,Duncan,Robinson,Shaq,ming,Hakeem,moutumbo, bol etc.

[@Robertedwinhouse38]

@@shemgilbert1991exactly. People act like mj’s 3 point shooting would translate to todays game. Makes no sense jordan would be derozan from 3

[@NBSTVMIR]

@@Robertedwinhouse38🤣🤣🤣🤣 right

[@dewanewelch1744]

​@@Robertedwinhouse38how would he be Deroxen from 3 when MJ is a avg 3 ball shooter and Derozen is a below avg 3 Ball shooter. Actually MJ 3 Ball got better in the playoffs and once again even better in the finals. Not a good comp.

[@Robertedwinhouse38]

@@dewanewelch1744 lol

[@patrick05Morgan]

4 championships in 21 soon to be 22 years is insane. At what point does your longevity work against you? At that point he’s just using more years to fill the stats because the lakers aren’t competing for a championship anymore.

[@ektran4205]

this guy doesn't account for the fts

[@countmusa1074]

Saying Kareem was lebron before Lebron when he wasnt even the best player on more than half of his championships is insane.

[@peewee0224]

The thing I hate the most about ring arguments. Sometimes some of these dudes weren’t even the best player on the championship team. Kareem, Steph, Kobe.

[@7Bobby7]

​@@peewee0224so you say, not gonna argue about it but those guys have never been carried in a title run they contribute whether you value that or not

[@peewee0224]

@@7Bobby7 I’m not saying they didn’t contribute I’m saying it’s dumb to say Kobe is better than lebron because 5>4 when for 2-3 rings he wasn’t the best player on that team.

[@LarryBrown-us8rg]

@@peewee0224 yes and by your logic curry been carried by Iggy since the best player won fmvp was Iggy. Did you know that role players won FMVP right? 😂😂

[@peewee0224]

@@LarryBrown-us8rg point to me when I said anything about finals mvp don’t worry I’ll wait.

[@CIavis]

Lebron and Kareem’s careers weren’t synonymous. The way that Jimmy disregards team compositions for eras always bothered me. ALSO NOT TOO MUCH ON TSO ITS BIG TSO AROUND THESE PARTS.

[@Nightmare-we8vm]

I hate the hypothetical order switch. LeBron was influenced by MJ. LeBron being directly influenced by players like Charles Barkley or Larry Bird would play differently.

[@TheMissiIe]

Lebron's longevity is insane, but even with the extra 7+ years, Jordan still accomplished more.

[@swisherodocus314]

That’s true but it is very clear that lebron had the tougher time of it you can’t even argue.

[@von1626]

I mean that’s fair but the discussion isn’t so simple as he accomplished more because you could easily add context in that argument.

[@swisherodocus314]

@@von1626 exactly

[@dacobylaw4721]

That's is why when it comes to the GOAT debate longevity rhymes with overrated.

[@vintagemonte]

Less talented era

[@dime1012]

Jordan the 🐐

[@illicitburn9386]

See the thing people don't really take into account is that being the skilled isn't the only part about the Goat debate its how the media persevere you. Kareem was bad with the media that's why he was never considered the Goat back then. The 90s was a perfect pot you had weaker comp, the league was shifting to be more international and there was no big name star everyone else was getting older so in comes Jordan who while the game was becoming the nba we know today MJ was the face of it so that's why people who don't watch basketball refers to MJ as the Goat cause everyone was saying it

[@simple45679]

You telling me legends like Bron, Kobe, Wade, or any perimeter player growing up wanting to "be like Mike" was just because of the media. Not because he played the best basketball ever seen, it was because of the media 💀

[@simple45679]

Larry Bird saying MJ was "god disguised as MJ" is just a media thing.

[@illicitburn9386]

@simple45679 yo reading comprehension is ass my guy. I said the media was part of it.

[@johnle1535]

Even in todays metric, Prime MJ over does Lebron prime. MJ is just a better player. All Lebron has is longevity… he can have that all he wants.

[@illicitburn9386]

@johnle1535 again yall reading comprehension is ass i never said anything about lerbon I just brought up that the Goat debate has as much to do with media and is the skill

[@dime1012]

Jordan never fumbled the bag in the Finals🤣💀

[@puncho8799]

Facts!!!! 💯

[@gorcsauce696]

The deadly Stockton 😂💀

[@lhype1748]

Cause he only got there 6 times😂

[@7Bobby7]

​​@@lhype1748lost his first two badly embarrassed his 5th I don't know by LeBrons 6th final it was clear he wasn't close to mj

[@puncho8799]

@@lhype1748 And won all 6-0 of them with 6 finals MVPs and 2 3peats 🐐

[@aaankms4450]

I dropped a like after the Bob Pettit, Giannis part. You deserved that one.

[@Klegend1750]

He definitely watched the video bc there’s no way

[@Nightmare-we8vm]

If MJ and LeBron swap but maintain their career feats, MJ blows LeBron out the water. Retiring after two 3peats in 8 years would make his trajectory insane in a what-if scenario.

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

Jordan obviously had the easier path lol, he was great but I don't think that man was truly battle tested like that in the 90's.

[@perqvalid8982]

as soon as solz said lebron his goat i knew he liked boys🤦🏾‍♂️

[@orignial]

Big O was averaging triple doubles before Magic and invented it

[@vectorz8821]

I don’t think that argument works in practicality, because it assumes that LeBron would come into the nba being the same player that he was as a rookie which he wouldn’t. There’s a number of factors you need to account for: How does LeBron grow up and what players does he take inspiration from? When does LeBron come into the league( he’s going to play at least 2 years in college)?, what team and coaching staff does he play for? Given that much of young LeBron’s game was based on athleticism I don’t think he changes too much from a scoring standpoint, but he isn’t going to be that same passing playmaking hub that we see him as now. I reckon he’s a lot more similar to say a Shawn Kemp or Karl Malone, with a bit more athletic pop. Not to mention that he doesn’t have the same options for player mobility and body management that he would today. You can’t just transplant guys from era to era because there are too many factors to account for here.

[@steviegreenthumb4720]

This could be said to take away from literally anyone in anything ever its not a sound criticism of the argument. Especially MJ.

[@TambayLogic]

@@steviegreenthumb4720 lebron saying he could have won scoring titles is a stretch because everyone was criticizing him because he lack efficiency in shooting in his cavs days.. while jordan was JORDAN from the moment he stepped foot in the NBA.. rookie jordan 28.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 2.4 steals and 0.8 blocks per game is = to prime lebron

[@steviegreenthumb4720]

@@TambayLogic everyone saying something doesn't mean it's true, past his second year his shot has been consistent. His stats have been virtually the same since then. Everyone STILL criticises LeBron for not being clutch despite being arguably the most clutch player ever.

[@TambayLogic]

@@steviegreenthumb4720 lebron didnt have a good jumper he developed it.. even on his miami days we still saw his weakness.. thats why he got stopped by barrea and the dallas.. Dallas series tells you why lebron isnt clutch at all.. and there are so many highlights where other players saved his ass in the last moments.. even last season you can still see lebron shit his pants in the last moments against nuggets.. he looked like a rookie in that series

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

​​@@TambayLogic "lebron never had a good jumper" yet he has more playoffs series shooting 3's at a higher percentage then Jordan while taking more shot attempts.

[@steviegreenthumb4720]

I agree with solz on that Harden shit, its so annoying to hear people say "if (x) never happened then (y) would have won that ring" and shit like that. There is NO RING IN HISTORY that is guaranteed if an event changed sports are just too wild, if KD didn't join the warriors Harden STILL has to get through Bron and Kyrie in the finals. Still has to get through Steph, Klay, Draymond warriors, still has to get through so much shit that its almost so silly to me that I have to laugh

[@ThatOldSchoolMagic]

If Lebron would have taken MJ's Place in History. Many things change of course. *There's a chance that Lebron's game and longevity may change due to the era difference as well as his mentality and the tech of the time to support him. *The bulls roster construction changes *Pippen probably no longer gets drafted *The pistons probably 3 peat in 91 or the Lakers win & Magic gets 6 If Lebron and the bulls don't win *The Knicks have another chance at a finals in 1992 or 93 *Lebron vs Hakeem in the Finals in 94 & 95? *Shaq & Penny have another chance to get to the finals in 96 *Allen Iverson probably doesn't get picked #1 due to the NBA's preference for Bigger players *Kobe's game is built off of someone else since there is no Jordan. *Depending on how good the bulls are and Bron's longevity, Utah has a chance at a ring in 97 and 98. *San Antonio's championship in 99 comes into question depending if Lebron ages faster in this time. *Lebron retires in 2000 with at best maybe 3-5 rings and 3-4 FMVPs.

[@ian_ford]

There is an interesting video from Jonny Arnett ("The ultimate Michael Jordan video") that honed in on MJ's performance at PG during the last ¼ of the 88-89 season. MJ's scoring dropped 9%, while his rebounds increased 17.4% and his assists 36% over the first ¾ of the season at SG. Where it really got interesting was using those averages across MJ's career, had he played PG from 89-2003, and his career averages would have been 27.4ppg, 7.3rb, 7.2ast. Which were eerily similar to LeBron James career averages of 27.2ppg, 7.5rb, 7.3ast. An educated guess based on a small sample size, yes. But it showed how even though high volume performers at PG and SG look equally dynamic to the naked eye, the mindset to execute both roles is entirely different. I would argue that the gap between switching from SG to PG is greater than an SG switching to any other Forward or C position on the floor. Like going from WR to QB. Because PG means you're responsible not just for your role but also ensuring every other position on the floor is in their role at all times. Which made what MJ did in 1989 that much more unreal.

[@MrSlashblade]

Johnny Arnett is quite literally the ultimate old head nut. At the end of the day with Scottie and eventually Rodman as well as Kukoc and the rest of the interior Jordan as a rebounder wouldn’t ever come close to the rebounder that he was in 89c as a playmaker again even when Scottie was a primary playmaker he never got to a consistent 7, so to expect that from Jordan is very unrealistic. Especially when the roster was built around supporting his scoring ability. If he’s just ratioing it that’s objectively a horrible level of prediction. It’s like anticipating how much money you need for Spain and basing it off of the Mexican peso to USD The reason why this experiment was never used again because it got figured out, not only were the bulls losing, Jordan playmaking went down by 4 assist from the beginning of the experiment, he just reverted back to being the scorer that he initially was, and it seem that it was highly ineffective. I also think people underestimate how much of the 1989 thing Jordan was already doing, he just quite literally wasn’t taking the ball from the backcourt other then that it stuck to him.

[@peewee0224]

Yes but the same goes for bron. If bron focused on scoring more he would have averages similar to mj that’s why the goat is based on what your preference is.

[@abtocool6350]

John actually did a video and said that if lebron averaged the same shot attempts as jordan he would pass him in and be first in ppg all time based off of statistical evidence, so essentially they both could have done what they have wanted.

[@Kidkinsey]

With doja and Nicki?!?! Absolutely disrespectful 😭😭 Nicki is LIKE THAT

[@tramainejohnson3702]

That’s cap nicki would still be better, nicki music actually reached men and women, but dojo cat devilish ways n only a few hit songs would be under lady Gaga and Miley Cyrus n plenty more at that time frame

[@davidstumpfl5889]

I honestly think that if LeBron came before MJ, it would be interesting to see how the media conversation shifts. LeBron is constantly being compared to someone else. What if MJ’s gambling scandal and his father’s murder happened in an age with KZbin and Twitter? Would he have been able to recover the way he did? Idk just interesting to consider

[@apexx_prime8313]

bruh... if a player had greatest finals performer label, two 3peats, wit mj stats in the 2010s SOCIAL MEDIA ERA they would EASILY be called the goat and anyone who said otherwise would be treated like a witch on trial.... Bron got called the goat for way less since 2014.... only advantage Bron would hav if they flipped is making the sport global and being the og face of nike

[@bernardjohnson6322]

What im saying im a mj h@ter make me believe lebron is better! I hear lebron fans dispite lebron playing in the worst conference in nba history he beat whoever was in front of him! But ur comeback is Jordan played against firemen thats why he won? But mj played who was in front of him! .....if its about rings its Russell not mj... ok but that would still put mj top 10 while lebron falls to 20-25! Jordan fans you can count on a few fingers the amount of teams that 3peat..it's just hard to do! Mj did this 2xs!....... i just want him to lose with no excuse! To the natural observers it doesn't look good!

[@anthonyyasona8237]

MJ is still the GOAT and Wilt is my 2nd for having the highest peak Top 5 1. MJ 2. Wilt 3. Kareem 4. LeBron 5. Russell

[@senseihimothy5899]

If LeBron came n had 2 face wut Jordan faced comin up,he would b stuck as fuck when it comes to Bird's Celtics,Bad Boy Pistons...he would try n join teams like he did but wit who back then?!?!😂😂😂😂

[@beepbop1185]

If anyone in this day and age wins 6 chips in 8 years they are the goat. So even if bron and Jordan career switched, recency bias would be out of the world, and that level of domination plus winning is Brady Like. Brady was even chasing Jordan during his career. If Bron won more of those finals especially in the heat cavs period he’d definitely be the goat. If he wins 2014 and 2015 that’s a 3peat with Miami and 2 in a row with Cleveland. Domination on multiple teams multiple times. But he won once in Cleveland in 4 tries and once in LA in 6. (Just bc it’s a bad team don’t mean he ain’t trying to win it all and he chose to go there ie. 2019 lakers) 2 in Miami in 4 tries. All taking him losses to get those wins, which is absolutely normal of anyone or any athlete but the GOAT is not normal. Absurd winning is part of goat status and Lebron has absurd chances at winning. But actually winning ain’t too absurd. 4 chips in 20 years is 20% 6 in 14 years is a way higher percentage.

[@fyks669]

lebron has just too much of everything accolades numbers CRAZIEST longevity just unheard of its just too much to say he isnt best or greatest

[@thecayonshow4569]

The first 5 minutes of this video is proof the GOAT debate is based purely on nostalgia and bias towards Jordan. Also people like to structure the debate comparing Jordan's career to Lebron's player ability. Horrible debate regardless of who has it.

[@limitedbom2206]

How can you actually think it's a good take to say "take his career and put him in the 80s and he'd be goat". First of all, he wouldn't develop the same. The game was completely different, your dribbling, your shooting, etc. are all not going to be as good as they are now. Your stats definitely won't be as good as now because it's the easiest it's ever been to get counting stats. You can't matchup hunt like now because there was no defense 3 in the key. You don't get to go 1 on 1 with a point guard and bully him for a free layup, a big is gonna contest you hard. If you take an all time great scorer from the 80s/90s and put them in todays game, their numbers will go up. No defense 3 in the key, no hand checking, basically no traveling or charges, their numbers will only go up. You can't just compare stat to stat, the game is too different to do that.

[@PrinceSolitude]

What I've always failed to understand was how getting to the finals is the same as actually winning the championship. Lebron is literally getting praised for getting to the finals alot but not actually winning more often than not.

[@chefboyikei6174]

Winning the finals odds the only thing harder than getting to the finals

[@lucidstudious750]

Because context matters. 1 carried an incompetent franchise to the finals, and the other took good team to its absolute peak This whole debate is Peak vs Longevity

[@MasteRgamer-mk5bp]

@@lucidstudious750 bro Jordan literally did both of things so what are you even talking about lil bro ⁉😭

[@lucidstudious750]

@@MasteRgamer-mk5bp no. Jordan had a competent front office that surrounded him with the right pieces. Bron didn't have anyone until kyrie

[@MasteRgamer-mk5bp]

@@lucidstudious750 yes. Kyrie and Bron didn't even play together until 2014 and by that point Lebron had already played for the heat so now you're just lying. Also, I think you've got Mj and bron confused when you were talking about their front offices.

[@michaelmayers3622]

Lebron also would have more consistent and healthier temates. People basically just gona flip the argument.lebron have better comp, coaching, cough punching players back then was real defense etc.

[@Mptappin12]

2:07 well first on the Nicki Minaj topic I think she’s still better but however, if they so did released in 2008 the debate is a lot closer. As far as a Lebron Jordan thing I think LeBron would be number one but not as number one as Jordan if you catch my drift

[@razorrrsixx]

Ok the first one is just dumb if bron came first there wouldn’t be an argument for who is the goat bc mj would have clearly been the best player the fact of the matter is that every basketball player has the same goal winning a chip and mj won 6 chips in 6 tries which is 2 more than bron in 4 less tries 40% never beats 100%

[@andrewjiwary8641]

If jordan keep his achievement in this current era. Then Jordan would beat warriors with KD 3 times. Oh yeah… there would be no debate

[@greatest515]

Saying “Jokic peaked higher than Kobe” is every reason why y’all nerds are the worst thing that happened to basketball fandom.

[@PeteNeville-u7r]

I don’t know who tf in there right mind works have anything good to say about Doja? Nicki is way better lmao I legit can’t stand her music

[@Reesiere13]

I got a hot take lol. The suns will go right back to missing the playoffs now that CP3 and Ayton are gone because booker is overrated

[@ajgreene5677]

I don’t understand how Jimmy thinks curry is better than magic because of era but doesn’t think lebron is better than jordan. I smell bias. I agree with the era argument so that’s why I think curry is better than magic and that’s ALSO why I think lebron is better than jordan. It should be consistent like that if you’re going to use the era argument

[@HoodieDT]

that doesn’t equal bias at all, just because of era doesn’t mean one player can’t be better than another. that’s like saying Tatum is better than bird because of era 😐

[@ajgreene5677]

@@HoodieDT Tatum is just not better than bird tho. The better argument would be Durant being better than bird because of era. Tatums still got a lot to go IF ANYTHING

[@HoodieDT]

@@ajgreene5677 that’s the point, just because he’s from a newer era that doesn’t just equal better than the past. Jordan simply outclasses Lebron in most of the statistics that USED to make people goats before we started adding random shit to the conversation

[@ajgreene5677]

@@HoodieDT bro comparing Tatum and bird is dumb. People compare lebron and Jordan all the time. Just like magic and curry. And if you’re reason for curry is era than ur reason for lebron should also be era. Tatum isn’t being compared to bird so you can’t edge it out with the era argument. That’s just not even close

[@HoodieDT]

@@ajgreene5677 you aren’t reading the point at all. I picked a new guy who has NO reason to be in any goat conversation and compared him to someone who is/was in the conversation on PURPOSE to showcase that just because you’re from a new era it doesn’t mean you’re better than players from the past

[@AHamp123]

Bro Oscar Robertson literally averaged a triple double for a whole season before Magic what is Stephen A/Jordan talking about he created the triple double??

[@thoughtsintheclouds8516]

Bruh if lebron was how he is now in the 80’s… Jesus Christ 😂😂😂and Jordan world be harden with better defense.. and rings

[@big2ximes]

yall are making your own argument she said if he played before jordan not eras not competition juh flip who came first

[@golden10ful]

If lebron did what he has done and then MJ came after and did what he did...we would still call Jordan the goat lol the fuck thus lady talking about

[@panashe5268]

Comparing Kareem to Lebron was flawed because Kareem only won one championship as the undisputed best player on his team. He was a phenomenal individual player who didn’t start racking up team accolades until playing with another Top 5 player. Kareem was also a very one dimensional player, take him out of the post and he’s basically useless. No passing game, zero shooting, zero perimeter defense etc. all things Lebron can do. Not to mention significantly worse competition. The reason MJ quickly climbed the GOAT ladder was because he could do so many things Kareem couldn’t, while winning mvps, chips, dpoy etc. The league had never seen someone so all rounded who could win at the highest level against increased levels of competition.

[@itsmeflacko1618]

Kareem avg 5 assist multiple seasons and was a great rebounder and defender. Kareem comp at center was way better than what Bron had to play at SF

[@calebcicero7727]

I personally have Lebron as my GOAT but if you have Jordan that’s cool with me too. But it’s definitely one of those 2 there isn’t a single other people you can argue

[@spliffsforbreakfast]

KG shot long ass 2’s his whole career. If he shot more 3’s would he be definitively the best PF of all time?

[@noeaeon]

MJ: "Who is Big O?"

[@zain4070]

Kareem wasn’t the best player on every finals team and had magic Johnson for 5 titles gtfo

[@sillyweebanimeisforkids3413]

Doja wouldnt have even blown up enoto get to say so...that cow song she made wouldnt have got her far back then

[@adonismodel1429]

All it means is that how Kobe is a better player den Jason Kidd but as a point guard Jason Kidd is better at being a floor general.

[@SomeGoodBroth]

Oh no not bsolz’s “Jorfraud arc”😭😭

[@ns4lsb455]

SAS reading his notes on air of ESPN and saying it was mj is insane 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@michaelmayers3622]

Lebron would still be playing at a high level by the time mj enter the league

[@joiri9498]

its funny jimmy is literally using kareem as a bron comparison. that mj bias runs deep.

[@Klegend1750]

15:07 Kobe and AI did have that mentality 🤣🤣🤣

[@craigjohnston5781]

I appreciate you standing on your new GOAT. I appreciate people willing to be aggressively wrong, koodos BSOLZ!😂

[@TambayLogic]

he has a hard time explaining why lebron is the goat thats why he just go to "FEELINGS" didnt know solz was soft

[@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensen]

If you switched their careers, Lebron wouldn't have developed the way he did because sports medicine was not as advanced in the 80s. I hate that we try to place players without that context.

[@gorcsauce696]

He would be able to foul people being that big 😂 and he can go even harder in paint he dominating that style suits him .

[@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensen]

@@gorcsauce696 I'm not saying he wouldn't be great I’m saying it's a dumb argument to say “place him in the 80s in his modern day form,” because that ignores that he wouldn't have had the same development he does today. He wouldn't have been the only person his size in the paint, in fact there were a lot bigger people. Lebron always struggles guarding true centers, not reason to think that changes in the 80s where the paint was a lot different than it is today. That's almost as ridiculous as assuming a player from then in today’s league wouldn't benefit from modern advancements. They would. Lebron would be great, but I doubt he’s domjnating like y'all try to make it seem.

[@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensen]

@@gorcsauce696 he’s dominating a style he has never played lol. Lebron has never playe real bully ball and he’s not doing magically it against centers in the 80s and 90s. When the paint was more clogged and centers were just bigger than they are today. If you gave him modern advancements, he would absolutely be the greatest thing ever, but if you put him in the context of that era, he is not dominating like you think.

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

​​@@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensen lmao 🤣 you had guys like Gary Payton and Reggie Miller getting because in that era but some how a 6 ft 8 monster like lebron who is built like Karl Malone with Jordan's speed and athleticism have no chance in the 80's and 90's??? Just straight delusions. 🙄

[@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensen]

@@Ghost-rb6cw I didn't say he had no chance. Why are you making up stuff when you can read what I wrote?

[@kenjiNaga]

You know what’s crazy about the curry and magic thing people literally use the micheal bs Lebron mentality to argue that but still say curry better but don’t agree with Lebron being better than jordan😂😂😂

[@7Bobby7]

It's the opposite but yeah if you have LeBron higher you should have curry higher

[@revan5293]

I got Jordan at 1,Kareem at 2,Lebron at 3

[@michaelmayers3622]

Giannis aint dominating nothing right now.

[@mydogsnameislucy768]

In 20 years it’ll just be MJ and then everybody else. Bron isn’t that impressive he just plays now.

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

He been impressive for over 20 years. You niggas just have a delusional dream boy fantasy infatuation for Michael Jordan.

[@bambam0284]

Lebron being drafted in 84 instead of Jordan would be Kareem on crack. 4:54 LeBron probably goes to 10 and wins 8

[@bambam0284]

Nah maybe he goes to 12 or 13 and then wins 8

[@michaelmayers3622]

But is joker the better player

[@jayycourage5948]

Jordan glorified goat cause Len bias never lived long enough to play against him. My hot take.

[@jayycourage5948]

Excluding college.

[@NOTTHEMUTANTMOBo]

In a pick up game fasho magic

[@NOTTHEMUTANTMOBo]

True pg era is ending soon

[@rafidammar5822]

if lebron came before jordan, the goat standard will set by lebron, a guy who could do evertything and dominating for 20 years. a guy who only scores, great for 11 years and then washed would not touched lebron's career

[@shemgilbert1991]

If he lost 6 finals he wouldn't be considered the goat in the first place. People would probably default to bird, basic or Kareem

[@rafidammar5822]

@@shemgilbert1991 This is what I don't like about ring culture. In 2014, LeBron is arguably if not the best player in the world and he put up 28/8/4 on 57/50/79 splits in the finals. But according to fans like you, 3rd year kawhi Leonard who avg 17/6/2 is the best player in the world and boosting his legacy while LeBron only diminished his own. Just because one played with better teammates then the other one's. Weird logic

[@MasteRgamer-mk5bp]

@@rafidammar5822 bro you literallly js said why people have Jordan > Bron. Because he's the better player from almost every way you look at the GOAT debate from rings to personal titles Jordan has almost everything on Bron.

[@rafidammar5822]

@@MasteRgamer-mk5bp except I don't look at rings and media awards that means absolutely nothing on basketball court

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

​@@MasteRgamer-mk5bp lol when did Jordan ever had a shooting split of 50/50/79 in a lost? That right there should tell you Jordan is not that much better then lebron like you guys think be is lol, it's straight delusions and buffoonery to believe that nonesense at this point, and it's push by the old nba players, from athletes and media talking heads that don't know what they be talking about.

[@dasindrako47]

Stg I hate GOAT conversations 😂😂 it's literally never gonna be a Goat because it's all subjective... don't play in same Era, competition or nothing... jus resumes

[@semtex234]

Let's say Lebron and MJ switched careers. I think Lebron would have had a similar career to Mike on that he would hsve struggled the first few years. However, I think Lebron would have had better stats and dominated that era. He probably would have developed as an even better defensive player, and played more in the post. MJ on the other hand would have put up better stats now, than he did during his actual career. I think he could have become a lethal 3 point shooter. If not at the beginning, then certainly later in his career. I think MJ could have been a much more dominant and efficient Kobe. Depending on his team, im not sure if MJ would achieve the same level of success as he did in his real career, but i definitley dont see him being without any accolades or chips. Same with Lebron. A lot of it depends on the teams around them. It's like the Melo on Detroit what if. He could have either been the same melo, or he could have achieved greater things and be in the goat convo. Bron would have been Magic with more of a bag

[@arlonavant2250]

Hot take. In regards to the magic and steph debate. Yes Curry is more skilled. But i feel as though things like lebrons and the higher skill level in the nba now is helped greatly by the amount of resources. Magics time you didn’t have 3rd graders with personal trainer's or youtube highlights to try and imitate and implement into your game. I say all that to say if Magic was given the same resourses as curry then he might be considered the better player because he wouldve developed a more modern skillset. The same could be said for dropping lebron in jordans era. Lebron wouldnt have his modern skillset that he does not if he played in jordans era. Would bron still dominate. Ofc but i feel as though the conversations would be different.

[@TambayLogic]

the thing about lebron saying that he can win scoring titles every single season is its the same thing as what jordan said about overtaking kareem in the number 1 scoring leader and if we think about it i would say jordan has much better chances of overtaking kareem than lebron winning scoring titles for 10times.. imagine jordan not retiring the first time and playing those 2 full seasons i believe he would be atleast 1k pts less of what kareem has and thats not even debatable because he already proved he can play at the highest level the time he came back

[@von1626]

He would would’ve come close.I think he would had have a chance to pass karl Malone but it’s a big jump after passing Kobe in terms of how much points he would need to score to even catch Kareem.He would already be pushing 40 trying to catch Kareem and that’s around the time mj slowed down a lot even tho he was still good.

[@dariuslegacy3406]

​@bruhbruh8892the guy with the highest scoring average in the history of the NBA, couldn't beat the scoring record? I'm confused.

[@isaakfrmla]

MJs average of 30 ppg is the highest ever let’s say he played 20 seasons same as lebron he would be almost at 50,000 total points lol completely blowing that record out the water and really making it untouchable 😂

[@TambayLogic]

@@von1626 jordan makes 2.5k pts in a season so 2 season = 5k thats 37k++ 1k less of what kareem had.. and if he had the chance to overtake kareem do you really think jordan wouldnt do it in that situation?

[@TambayLogic]

@bruhbruh8892 but the context here is lebron statin that he can win every single scoring title that he played on.. based on what you said he can do it but he didnt.. and everyone knows if he did then every accolades and winning would have suffered

[@chief-long-john]

The hypothetical era flip is a useless argument. If my uncle was bill gates I would be rich. Also we need to compare eras in their confined state. Everything is relative. Magic was better relative to his time. If we factor in eras then we eliminate players grandeur in time over time. Eventually dudes will say bron was ass but he was dominate relative to his time. Anyways

[@kenjiNaga]

Bro said “if Kd wasn’t on the warriors harden would have a ring” like you must’ve forgotten who Lebron was 2017 Kyrie and Lebron beating Huston and even in 2018 how bron was ballling def would won 3 in a row😂

[@alphabrother6823]

IMO, Lebron would do better if he was drafted NOW than if he was in the 80s

[@practiceyourart]

The longevity point doesn't make sense as you're essentially gassing a guy up for being great and still achieving less while having a lot more years in attempts. Anyway, everyone is free to have their opinion on this.

[@JoePapi1130]

Magic Johnson invented the triple double... so Big O ain't play?

[@shanaandshawn]

Using a hypothetical argument to justify why per 36 isn’t hypothetical is funny af

[@puncho8799]

I respect you having LeBron as your goat, even though the majority of people say you’re wrong The fact that LeBron is going into his 21st year and still chasing Jordans accomplishments Let you know how great and dominant he was, and he did it in less time only 15 years 13 competitively

[@ThaRealElementX]

People don't want to talk about that though, instead of it being like Ive accomplished this instead of it took me this many years to accomplish this. And he has to do it by fixing every single team he's been on after leaving Cleveland

[@CIavis]

“even though you’re wrong” an opinion that’s based on something subjective cannot be wrong. (I had to make sure I said subjective because opinions can be wrong but that’s only things that based on fact and nuance.)

[@edwardsl0524]

you don’t respect it if u say an opinion is wrong

[@puncho8799]

@@CIavis I’m giving my opinion by saying he’s wrong

[@puncho8799]

@@edwardsl0524 I’m giving my opinion by saying he’s wrong

[@CutToTheMarrow]

I mean thats a good question. Because they are both the prototype of what the PG position should be in their era.

[@Nightmare-we8vm]

I think he's defining greater as who achieved more. Better is more of a skill argument. Steph is definitely a better player. I don't think he will ever surpass Magic's greatness due to Magic's semi-forced retirement and his early success.

[@wyattfriend7360]

The idea is more like... If Lebron played in the 90's he'd probably win more than 6 championships. and i can agree

[@nolanmackall5165]

When he said lebron is his goat that shit sounded so gross lmao

[@isaakfrmla]

Lebron is still chasing and he’s played 2 decades lol fake king

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

Lebron doesn't chase a damn thing lol, I mean what is there to chase lol, his career is already made...30k points, 10k rebounds and 10k assist is set and stone.

[@uwin23]

​@@Ghost-rb6cwall you mentionned is one and only one thing/category: Longevity, it's actually the only legit argument for LeBron

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

@@uwin23 and longevity is the one thing that yoy Jordan fans complain about lol, even if Jordan played as lebron I don't see him finishing off his career with 30k pts, 10k ast and 10k rebounds lol.

[@uwin23]

@@Ghost-rb6cw first of all can you stop labelling anyone who disagrees with you a ''jordan fan''? It comes off as very emotional and if anything it makes YOU look like a fanboy, furthermore the reason why this accumulative stats argument is very weird is because if you think it's the end all be all like you seem to do, you'll then have to admit that Karl Malone is a way better player than mj seeing as how he got way better accumulative stats that mj in almost all categories, very flawed right? So to prove why LeBron is the goat you'll actually have to come up with a lot more than just that...

[@TambayLogic]

about curry and magic we can agree magic johnson is a better PG than curry but without the PG context and just pure player vs player comparison then i would say curry is a much better player than magic

[@BKNPhenom]

We?????????

[@jacobbarnett1538]

Skipping the ad was so real

[@itsmeflacko1618]

You guys are mad in the comments about the Kareem comparison but its really perfect. Kareem and lebron both have issues with the media, superhyped HS prospect, all time leading scorer and most MVPs. Hell kareems resumé is better than brons and they still put Jordan over him , if Jordan surpassed Kareem he can go over anyone, hell even throw magic who was winning mvps and 5 titles in 9 years, bird won 3 straight MVPs and 3 titles. There were alot of good resumé Jordan had to go up against and he best and still ranked above. Then you gotta throw in era tax how y'all be saying Jordan played weak dudes now it would be lebron playing them weak dudes

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

Lol Kareem doesn't have a better career then lebron please stop it, all guys do is compare accolades, it doesn't only stop with accolades.

[@Nicholas45451]

Its the double 3 peats

[@samuellolango9720]

If lebron and MJ swapped timelines, MJ would literally have an even better career as he would be playing in a defensively weaker timeline

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

Lol really? I don't see kd dominating the nba but y'all think little Jordan was going to come in this era and start dominating this era lmao 🤣😂 you guys just continue to sound so damn delusional.

[@starbéreux]

That’s not how that works lol. Would Jordan have the greatest Robin of all time if he played today? What about a smart general manager and owner who helped put a team around him? Also would he do well in a zone heavy era when he played in an era where it was illegal? Don’t get me wrong, he’ll still have a great, but comparing a player from an era 30 years before/after is impossible realistically.

[@chalnervassor9430]

The only point I have against the Lebron vs Jordan but what if Bron came first is that Lebron beat Kareem kinda quickly. It was kinda locked in by 2018. Pretty much Bron is a better Kareem with higher skill with longer longevity.

[@practiceyourart]

How is he better than Kareem? Kareem has 50% more MVPs and championships. I guess people glazing Lebron for cooking the worst conference competition in NBA history is more important than.. something that's actually tangible.

[@chalnervassor9430]

I mean when you win rings with the greatest pg of all time and win mvps without making playof appearances dont wonder why you placed a few notches lower than what your accomplishments say you earned.@@practiceyourart

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

​@@practiceyourart funny how you say people glaze lebron for cooking the "weak eastern conference" but y'all on mj's d*ck 24/7 for literally playing in the weakest era of modern basketball in terms skill set and athleticism smdh. 🤦🏾

[@bmitchell6]

That doja take isn't bad at all.

[@countmusa1074]

Its not though, because Dojas entire style & influence is from Nicki. Thats like saying what if Trae Young came before Steph when Trae wouldnt even do the things he does now if it wasnt for Steph. Same with Kobe & MJ.

[@franciscocruz6489]

The real question is if lebron's career would have lasted as long with the abuse he would have taken trying to dunk the ball

[@zain4070]

Bro is the same size as Karl Malone with handles and way more speed and athleticism. He would be just fine

[@shemgilbert1991]

​@@zain4070LBJ has mediocre handles just quick first step

[@zain4070]

@@shemgilbert1991 he literally functions as the point guard for every team he played on until last year. And his quick first step would be able get passed every slow footed player in the 90s

[@shemgilbert1991]

@@zain4070 that doesn't change the fact that he has mediocre handles. He doesn't have any go-to crossover moves his main weapon is his athleticism. I agreed with you about his first up that's why I said that he just has a good first step not good handles overall. Aside from that why do LeBron James fans act like there weren't any quick bigger players before he was born?

[@zain4070]

@@shemgilbert1991 because I watched old games and the physical defense is very much over exaggerated.

[@dacobylaw4721]

To be honest all LBJ insane longevity does for him in that the GOAT debate is make MJ's accomplishments look all the more impressive.

[@ThaRealElementX]

I feel like people just bring in facts that have nothing to with winning. We used to use winning as a big measurement and now not so much. We have all these LeBron stats that popped up out of nowhere like "oh he's made it to the finals this amount of times" instead of winning. Also, we take a lot of outside factors as to why he didn't win like no having enough help when we know people like LeBron has had more help than alot superstars yet he's elevated as high as other players who took a way harder route. Longevity is there argument but can we say that when you stack your team to the brim. Even when he had the most stacked team he lost to a sick "Dirk". Maybe top 10 but definitely we have more players who has done a lot more with not as much help. Also to stay on topic, i dont think Lebron would be a goat if we switched timelines either lmfao if we doing hypotheticals, then i think we all know Lebron would not last as long with modern medicine and all that money spent on his body.

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

Jordan had more help then any player in the 90's, so I don't why you guys try to play the "who had more help" comparison game when we all know competition wise Jordan did not faced anything that was close to lebron's competition.

[@ThaRealElementX]

@@Ghost-rb6cw That maybe true he possibly had more help in then 90's but he didn't have almost complete control over who gets signed to his team and that's why it's brought up. We all know who played with more all stars and hall of famers(especially if you include future ones). And at the end of the day, we see who actually still one with all that help instead of getting beat by Dirk with the flu. Even if it is true that this league is more competitive, if you stack your roster as much as you can, I would say that demonishes the competitive integrity and it all start with LeBron

[@Ghost-rb6cw]

@@ThaRealElementX first of all, lebron doesn't sign any players that's the gm job, lebron probably have some type of influence behind the scenes but he doesn't have full control, that's a narrative that was created by Jordan fans to had made it look like he controls everything when that's not the case. And lastly, you do realize dirk's 2011 mavs is the greatest mavs team to have assemble right? Y'all are not aware of how tough lebron's competition was y'all just saying things you have no clue of.

[@ThaRealElementX]

@@Ghost-rb6cw You wouldn't be able to look me in the eye and tell me he doesn't have some sort of sway or say so 😄 that's more than what players had back in the day, and you know hes going to abuse that fact. He dont sign the contracts, but I'm sure he has some heavier influence on players and minor with front office. Also even though that was dirks best line up right, wasnt he just favored to win it anyways so what does it matter if you were expected to beat them and the other player is sick. He played poorly for a series they was supposed to win in the first place.

[@ThaRealElementX]

I'll concede on the LeGM because it's all speculation as there is no evidence but when it comes to help and competition... 😒