The NEW cars you want but the USED ones you should buy instead | ReDriven

With wait times extending out to years, order books closing and the prices for current but pre-owned examples asking crazy premiums, there are a bunch of USED cars you should seriously consider before buying (or waiting for) a NEW one.
What did you think? Did we miss anything? Let us know in the comments below and don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all of our latest content!
USED CAR BUYERS GUIDE: • ULTIMATE used car buye...
Nissan 370Z review: • Is the Nissan 370Z wor...
#new cars
#used cars
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At ReDriven, we’ll be taking you through the pros and cons of a huge range of used cars to see how well they’re going now that they’re a few years old, have thousands of kilometres on the clock, and are coming toward the end of their warranty, or maybe don’t have one at all.
Plus, thanks to our resident mechanic, Jim, you’ll find out what commonly goes wrong with them and what might need to be fixed.
Most importantly, we want to make ReDriven a voice for the most in-the-know used car experts there are...you guys.. See, you’re the ones that actually buy, live with, love and sometimes unfortunately hate the cars we’ll be reviewing.
So we want to hear your thoughts. Hit us up in the comments, or on Instagram and Facebook.
We’d love nothing more than for you to give us as much feedback as possible, so we can make this channel the best it can be.
Find us on:
INSTAGRAM: / redriven_official
FACEBOOK: / redrivenofficial

[@ReDriven]

💵 Save $$$ on your next car finance and get a $250 fuel voucher when you do! Use our link - fastnfinance.com.au/redriven/ New/used cars, bikes, boats, caravans, classics, grey imports and more. If it moves...they'll finance it!

[@arokh72]

Asking $10k AUD for a 25 year old Toyota just goes to show how bad the used car market has become here. It's become a bloody joke.

[@adventuretimephotos2423]

Mate try 30k+ for a 25 year old Land Cruiser / patrol. Such a joke.

[@RivaStyx]

There are some really optimistic sellers out there, its too funny to read why they believe their car is worth X amount

[@damilolaakanni]

TBF, Toyotas hold their resale value extremely well. It's even better (or worse, depending on how you look at it) with their offroad SUVs and trucks.

[@kais2345]

10k is for a good example of the 3 door convertible likely with a LSD and he's right when he says they're starting to become a little bit of a collectable. If you're willing to pick up a four door version (or non-convertable 3dr) that looks its age then you can go under 6k and if you're just looking for a beater then you can go even lower eg. 2.5k. The engine is extremely reliable if looked after passably, although everything else does start to wear out by 300,000km. I do agree though, the market sucks.

[@lukeclifton4392]

Supply and demand buddy… and people are after the reliability ATM. (Excluding Landcruiser, yeah it’s highly reliable… but now an overpriced cult icon for wannabe’s)

[@ItsTheNada]

I live in Dallas TX US. By watching this video, I’ve learned that a Ute is a pick up truck, a tray is a bed, VW makes trucks and Mitsubishi still exists.

[@amansood7601]

Cheers mate

[@andgate2000]

Yes...their are other parts of the world.

[@isaacmusimenta5818]

It's a bitter but very sensible pill to swallow. I appreciate the Rav4/RX and Everest/Pajero comparison. Thank you for this.

[@cwang6951]

Those asking 20K for a 90's Rav4 with 200000KMs....got to be mad! That Civic though, future classic for sure and a great call on the RX!

[@markbattersby6435]

Wow AK - this has to be my fav vid - and I've watched them all lol. What a great concept; hoping there is a part 2, 3, 4 and 5! Awesome mate!

[@nk53nxg]

Very few used car reviewers give as good impartial and detailed advice as Redriven. Redriven appears to give out good advice (pros and cons) of vehicles from the 90's to now. Although it is obviously Australia focused they do try to cater internationally. I would say in terms of reliability, build quality, ease of self repair and acceptable driving manners a lot of mid to late 90's vehicles especially Japanese tend to be good buys. However crash safety today is far superior, and a front offset crash at 40 mph/60kph could likely kill the occupants of a 90's vehicle where as in a modern car today the risk of death or injury is hugely reduced due to bodyshell rigidity and safety aids. Also Australia has different environmental conditions to say the UK, the sun and dust in certain regions decays plastics, paint and rubbers, while outback dust will chew up wheel bearings etc. The UK has problems with damp and salted roads eating bodywork in dark damp places and eventual ingress into electrics. Different issues can arise for the same vehicles in different climatic regions of the world. So a 90's car in the UK will be rare, especially after the governement scrapage scheme and body corrosion, 90's cars some of them still in good useable condition were incentivised to be sent to the scrap yard in the UK. This was not environmentally friendly scrapping perfectly good vehicles, the emissions were higher but this was pushed by the motor industry to push up new car sales, not environmental reasons as they eluded too. Modern cars today may have better packaging, occupant and pedestrian safety, higher thermal and fuel efficiency and tech, but some of the components in the engine bay are inferior such as cheap plastic water pumps that warp and crack. Along with unforgiveable component failures in this day and age from plastic timing chain guides and all sorts of cheap and nasty material choices. 90's cars in my opinion were far better built in this respect, which is why I think 90's vehicles were a peak in terms of robust reliability with tech levels most tech minded people could repair themselves. Have manufacturers today delibaretly engineered a limited life span into components, or is it just simple cheap and nasty material choices? Great videos by redriven, still the best impartial no nonsense advice.

[@BlueBeeMCMLXI]

Bullshit, this information is everywhere. Sycophant.

[@nk53nxg]

@@BlueBeeMCMLXI 😆😅🤣😂 calm down flower did someone piss in yer cornflakes this morning, what a bitter little daisy flower cup you are 😂. Well collected used vehicle information is not that easy to come across. Like they said they use forums and clubs for real user data along with used warranty claims and dealership mechanic experience etc. Very few you tube videos bundle all the information into one video in an objective impartial way with obvioisly some self opinion. Scotty Kilmer is just everything is rubbish except Toyota, John Cadogan hates too much to be taken seriosly, Car Wow and the like just review driving dynamics and practicality of new vehicles etc. So thats why I like to watch redriven, do not always agree on their verdict but different parts of the World age vehicles differently.

[@codincoman9019]

While it is true for EU cars, your opinion doesn't hold water for the best Japanese cars - their reliability peak is around 2006 (probably in 2007 the planned obsolescence - that other producers started using a decade earlier - kicked in for the Japanese producers). And the most reliable brands around that time were Lexus/Toyota, Acura/Honda, maybe Mitsubishi, Mazda, Suzuki, Subaru.

[@Gavxz]

Brilliant video, love the concept, would love to see a part 2, 3, 4

[@johnhannonHanno]

We have a 2002 Pajero, Exceed. I love it. Over 300,000ks on the clock and still goes extremely well.

[@thomasclayton169]

Back then carmakers cared more about quality engineering over unnecessary gimmicks and electronics

[@toobasaurus23]

Thank you for calling out Raptor drivers. My brother-in-law has one. 🤣

[@mazdar100]

Another brilliant vid chaps. Your advice is so practical. Problem is, you're getting quite a following, (I'm sure it was because of the Pajero Sport video 😉) so by the time you've convinced yourself to get your recommended models, so is everyone else, upping the price 😞🙂

[@babakvelamkon]

Good quality videos, informative and also targeting areas other than usual car stuff. More of this please and thank you. You are awesome

[@pablolobo6560]

Crazy how prices have gone. I would definitely add the 2nd gen Rav4. A wonderful little multipurpose wonder. Great video!

[@mindfreeze0838]

Great video, i like it considering as you have stated what near used are going for over msrp(its crazy). The one i have a little issue with is the Pajero, putting a push button start system on a Pajero is going to void the warranty and its going to look janky as it was never designed for it. Apart from that yeah, its a better bet over the everest

[@davidarter6271]

Excellent review, with really good alternatives offered. Thankyou

[@AbrahamArthemius]

The FD2 Civic in my opinion is still the best looking Civic out there. It's clean looking and aged gracefully (compared to its Euro FN2 sibling) plus this generation is also the last NA type-R with proper classic VTEC.

[@Sustainordie]

Such a great idea for a video. Love your videos guys keep them coming!

[@haydosg6292]

Another great vid guys. T shirt idea. “I bought it coz ReDriven said to” P.s loving my Procee’d GT that I picked up just after you did the review and now it’s worth 3k more. Still makes me smile every day.

[@ChrisW-pq5nd]

I did exactly the Pajero v Everest pick before the new Everest came out and went the Pajero. Not perfect, but better than most and cheaper than even more.

[@danbywaters6123]

Keep it serviced and you will never kill the Pajero. Whilst the Pajero is not loaded with modern gadgets like some of its competitors, simplicity has its advantages and there is no denying that its reliability is the best in its segment....

[@bigexpress84]

Just have a look at the exhaust on the 1st gen rav4 Toyota knew the rings weren't up to scratch and sent it anyway which means it burns oil which means it may have been starved of oil and watch out with TV joint extension when putting a lift kit in them. But very capable off road as stock with good tyres. Gen 1's are the best one if doing off Roading 2nd gen was turned into a bit of a soft roader

[@musicofeyes]

Bloody good content! This channel is treasure.

[@rotarpowered6665]

Brilliant video mate 🤙🏻

[@stephenmoore1541]

The more time goes by, the more I'm tempted to get a ND Miata. I don't like convertibles but a targa top sounds pretty nice. Unfortunately, I have a kid now so that doesn't really work.

[@paulpasin6068]

Great comparisons here ... well done! 🙂

[@toobasaurus23]

I have driven a 2019 Audi RS4, and it is amazing! I don't like estate style cars, but for that sound and performance, I'd make an exception.

[@johnnumbat9782]

Thanks again Adam - I don’t know where people get their funds to pay over 60k for a ute or any other vehicle for that matter - I’ve always owned good used vehicles with only one lemon amongst 18 cars over 45 years - in my view it’s not value for money to buy new and you can live in a house not a car though many are at the moment - philosophy lesson aside my experience has been that modern Japanese cars are better built and more reliable than any other country for example I’d choose a Mitsubishi Pajero over a bogan Ford any day. I bought my 2010 Diesel Hilux Auto (Thai built) for $18k just before Covid Feb 2020.

[@jacobbeattie650]

Adam I think you’re off the mark in suggesting the Civic over the i20 N. Hear me out, but I would go got a 2017 - 2019 Suzuki Swift Sport. It’s safe, only weighs 970kg, and has loads of torque in comparison to its weight so it flys like a rocket ship. The sport is built in Japan, so it’s well put together and reliable, and it has useful driver assists too. You can pick one up for about $20k.

[@alfstewart22]

My new favourite channel. Thanks for making these videos

[@lordbuckethead2022]

Excellent video, glove your work

[@jarrodweston7825]

What a fantastic idea to compare Thank you

[@AABRIEL58]

Excelent Content Brother!

[@fugawiaus]

I think a better comparison to the jimny would be the vitara or the sierra suzis. The rav 4 does not have low gearing for off road. It was always a joke off road whereas all the suzis were fully capable off road.

[@dielaughing73]

The only joke is expecting a soft-roader like a Rav4 to perform like a serious off-roader. He specifically said the Rav would be suitable for drivers who would mostly drive on-road. How many functioning Sierras are on the market these days anyway? They're pretty much a thing of the past now, and I wouldn't trust their minuscule little engines to last into seriously high-km territory

[@fugawiaus]

@@dielaughing73 there’s currently more sierras than ravs on car sales and gumtree. Lots more vitaras though which was probably a more direct competitor. Suzuki engines are easily on par with old Toyotas like the rav. Both are pretty simple, easy to work on and have parts back up. The suzis would have more aftermarket accessories though. Both good cars though.

[@GetOhn]

01:14 - Toyota Rav4 > Suzuki Jimny 03:13 - Honda Civic Type R > Hyndai i20n 05:08 - Lexus RX450h > Rav4 Hybrid 06:34 - Audi RS4 > Audi RS3 08:12 - Mitsubishi Pajero > Ford Everest (v6) 10:29 - VW Amorok W580X > Ford Ranger Raptor 13:32 - Nissan 370z > Toyota GR86 / Subaru BRZ

[@Freeridets]

I think for the Jimny, better option is the Vitara 1° gen (Escudo, Nomade, Sidekick), even incluid the 5 doors versión for the new Jimny 5 doors option. - Similar size - Boxy Shape - 1,6 liters - 100 HP - body on frame - Rear solid axle - Tcase with 1.8:1 reduction - Diff Lockers Options (Aftermarket) - and you can do a SAS for the IFS

[@willwallace8191]

or the previous model jimny

[@mitchrowe7627]

Great vid ! Thanks boys

[@taaro8324]

Thanks for this video!

[@TwistedDonners]

This definitely wasn't what I was expecting for today's video but it was a good one none the less. I was expecting the Mitsubishi Triton Warrior to be the used alternative to the Ford Raptor Wildtrack when I saw it on the list not the Amarok which was definitely a suprise. Will you guys be doing a reverse list of new cars that are cheaper and more plentiful than used cars or not? Also it'd be cool to see a series of top 5s for each category of beloved/good models that have been given the axe by their respective marques. Keep up the good work guys and looking forward to Friday's video as I have a hunch as to what might be getting reviewed lol.

[@MrLurchsThings]

I remember when the RAV4 first launched, Hot 4’s (I think?) had a one on the front cover with every conceivable mod done to it.

[@suad01]

Lol really? Normally it was nissan 200sxs or supras

[@veeness1969]

Again, informative and entertaining 😂😂

[@allanbriggs9007]

I tend to buy one or two year old low kms cars - they still have warranty and are usually a huge saving on new price (after pandemic was an exception).

[@peterkingsley2863]

Well I enjoyed the Territory review as I own a 2011 diesel, have an issue with the expert mechanic you see the fuel pump belt s to be replaced according to Ford at 240000klm,not 160000 as is the camshaft belt,so a bit miss leading I feel in my opinion, love the reviews guys cheers

[@zhila5958]

FD2 Civic type r is one of the best cars ever made imo

[@jamesmoros1274]

Great list, yes the Honda Type R is far better than the i20,30 series.

[@Asymmetry0]

Wasn't long ago there were plenty of cars and affordable price. Raptor near $100K that's a just $50k commercial vehicle with stickers pre covid.

[@lukeholland6578]

Could you do a review of a used great wall ute like the v200 or the ute based suv x200? Seems like a lot of car for the money, but reviews online are mixed 🤔

[@junki200]

Screw the new car flippers, let them sit on their overpriced cars

[@TheAfricanhokage]

The last part got me 😂😂😂

[@donotwantahandle1111]

The price of the Jimny has gone up over the past 3 years and you still have to pay another 20k to make it a true go anywhere offroader!

[@gideontladi]

More videos like this please and thank you.

[@richardggeorge]

Best used car out there is the ZB commodore. Compare that to a jimny around town, OMG

[@StassBrewing]

We were looking to upgrade our 2010 VE S2 Sportwagon but it was going to cost us $60k+ to get any meaningful upgrade. Just couldn't see the value in it. Kept the Holden and spent a few grand fixing the things that needed doing and it's going great. Picked up an NA MX5 with some of the savings. 👌👌

[@thomasclayton169]

The VE and VF series commodores are the best Holden has made. I have a 2013 VF sv6 sportswagon in Regal peacock green. It's been a dream to own almost 170,000 km on the clock with just basic servicing every 7,500km, tyres, and just brake pads replaced at 130k. Mechanic warns me if I sell it I'll regret it. With some of today's overpriced cars I think he might be right.

[@StassBrewing]

@@thomasclayton169 agree. I love it. Just did timing chain at 192k km and its breathed new life into the car. 👌🤙

[@thomasclayton169]

@@StassBrewing I hope I can reach at least 250k before I do the timing chain. Mine always had a slight metallic rustle when warmed up even at 13k my mechanic said sometimes the tensioners were not always 100%. Tell me did your chains make a noise at all even when new? I presume you were getting the stretched timing chain codes prompting you for replacement?

[@StassBrewing]

@@thomasclayton169 bought mine with ~50k km on it. I wouldn't say it had a rattle sound. Yep, had timing chain fault code. Didn't notice any change to noise at idle, but since fixing the timing chain there's a bump in power and responsiveness and I nice little induction type noise. Tip: find a Holden specialist mechanic and not a dealer to do the work, I used Core Tune and total cost was

[@CathodeRayNipplez]

Anyone who accepts a wait time for a car shouldn't be allowed to breed. They are everything that is wrong with the supply chain.

[@paladinjosh8272]

@Redriven would love to see a nissan 350z review on this Channel as I have one haha and planning on getting an wk grand cherokee crd would also love to see these underrated cars on the channel

[@garyrish]

Me to

[@DundeMan]

Is there a good used 7 seat suv with non off road features? Any suggestions?

[@nathanthebe6497]

Good video idea

[@izaaka70]

Curious to see what you guys think of 2018+ Ford Mondeo ambiente diesel. I have one, just curious as to if other people share the same thoughts as I do. Bought it for $14k, 245,000kms, AVG about 6.3 - 6.8L/100km which is actually a fair bit heavier than the majority of Mondeo owners apparently. Car currently sitting at 270,000kms, tows my track car, find it to be pretty compliant at about 8/10th's driving through twisties when compared to something like a ve/vf Commodore and falcon, nicely appointed for what I paid and supremely comfortable and quiet for my standards. Down sides are the maintenance - particularly the gearbox but I believe the later models seem to be mostly ok, I mean mine still has the original trans 🤷

[@ddsgardening7437]

Glad I got my 120n collectors item now

[@davegoldspink5354]

3 months on from this video and being a pensioner I decided to sell my VZ Commodore Ute which was sucking fuel like it always did and was starting to become a money pit. Now in November 2023 I’m still looking for a replacement with my bank offering me an $11500 loan over 2 months ago and a condition the car I buy is built after 2016 and must be purchased from a dealer within 30 days. It sounds simple enough you’d think. Although I did most of my own work on the Ute for the 9 years I had it my health problems and now nearly 61 means working on the replacement may not be an option. Been looking for a car now since June and have noticed the prices for used cars has skyrocketed. Been looking at cars with under 100k kms on the clock in either hatchback or station wagon and have found nothing under $22k even for 2litre hatchbacks built pre 2018. Moral of the story if you’re looking at buying a car you’ve got a massive wait time for new or else new car prices for even base model second hand cars.

[@michaelmich00]

u were right at the rs3, crazy audi doesnt open orders

[@garageblitztv3215]

According to John Cadogan, the Amarok would be lucky to score an ANCAP 1 rating back in 2022.

[@MonkeyChip]

Looks like im stuck in the Getz until the wheels stop turning. I should've upgraded earlier. So much for good things coming to those who wait 😅

[@RagTimeJack]

You should see some dealers on autotrader in the UK for the 2023 Jimny - 10 miles on the clock and trying to sell them for 26k it's getting insane, either it's the dealers themselves trying to upsell on the demand or people are just flipping them for profit.

[@drago939393]

The 370Z had indeed a 3.7 motor. The tax bracket difference and higher fuel usage are deal breakers for many users.

[@Bamwich]

this is such an idiotic comment..

[@steveorr]

how much for the Jazz VTI-S in the background? :)

[@joebot2127]

Is Everest the name you guys have for the Ford Explorer?

[@seb5595]

Pajero Pinn also a great alternative to the Jimny

[@alimmaqsa]

I have got to subscribe 👍

[@paveljones5666]

Top tip, try a car broker and you can easily save 5-10% for most factory orders. Also, I'd much rather pay RRP for a new car and wait months or years than paying delusional amount of mark ups on a 2yo used car in today's market

[@TheGospelOfCars]

The 3rd Gen Jimny is also a sensible alternative for the new jimny

[@edsonnatanleque7534]

Can you review the Toyota Vanguard from 2010 to 2012

[@toobasaurus23]

Wasn't the FD2 Honda import only in Australia? It's still very rare and $45k minimum.

[@suad01]

Didn't we get the hatch version of the type R?

[@tutoroflife]

In South Africa at least, not sure about there, the Audi TT S is cheaper than a 370Z, for example can get a 2015 Audi TT S for R 288 900.00 vs a 2010 370Z for R 269 900.00, yes in this case it is about +- US $1500.00 more for the TT but it is 5 years newer, and a 2013 Audi TT 2.0 is R 229 900.00

[@stevenblom4078]

Love the honda civic instead of the Hyundai

[@gustavokennedy213]

Your ford raptor body style is much cooler than American spec versions which are based on the F150 pick up.

[@kennyboy333]

Any chance you could review subaru diesels? Pretty please

[@damienfrizzell9394]

no smart lsd on the i20

[@eboutdooredits2660]

Surprised on the wait time for the rav 4. Imagine paying 75k for a speed camera car

[@vernonsteyn8070]

Why do none of your reviews feature Duster? Please review!! Mine has done 230000 kms in 4 years, no problems, cheap to run and buy. More than 180 000 of kms off-road.

[@ReDriven]

We don’t receive the Duster in Australia. However, when we head to the UK, we’ll put it on the to do list. - AK

[@msBatFink]

my worry with buying a 2nd hand car at the moment is the flood damaged cars on the market..ill pay a little more for a new car for the peace of mind.

[@danmccarthy4700]

I'm actually shocked at how badass that Amarok looked.

[@BlueBeeMCMLXI]

Skindeep is stupid. Go for what it does and costs to run/repair/insure.

[@codincoman9019]

Unfortunately VW is unreliable and has a high TCO (Total Cost of Ownership).

[@ravipeiris4388]

Here in the States, Suzuki has no vehicle footprint (except for motorbikes) due to their poor build quality and reliability 😢.

[@sch-corp]

Great list except for the alternative to the i20N - the Clio RS200/220 is the natural alternative here, and they are well under $20k even for a good one.

[@henkstols9326]

I would say the Megane RS Cup, especially the previous shape.

[@brunoxeca]

Megane is bigger, another ones would be Yaris GR, Polo GTI or Fiesta ST @@henkstols9326

[@spaghettibros6074]

Review the Lexus is200 pls

[@andgate2000]

A first gen rav....is just to breathless on the fwy.

[@jayzr8938]

This is my favourite automotive channel.

[@melissabarrett9750]

I've given up on all the others, they're just not as good

[@ReDriven]

Thank you so so much for the kind words. Means more than you know

[@jayzr8938]

@@ReDriven Thanks for the reply! I mean it too. You bring a breath of fresh air to the scene and great personality thanks for what you and your team do!

[@KILLERTX95]

Can you redo the Jimny. I can't sell my partner on anything before 2013. It would be a downgrade for her... She's in love with the jimny

[@PrisonerD]

A good alternative to the BRZ/86 is a BMW 2 series. Heaps more performance from the turbo engines. Providing you get a good one with service history etc. they’re reliable, just don’t skip on the maintenance. Interior is in another league, and best of all because people are scared of them they depreciate like mad and can be a bit of a bargain just off lease.

[@pawelkapica5363]

Yeah it's kinda dumb. I am not even gonna drop 40k for a car that was supposed to be an affordable entry into the sports car ctegory. For that I can get e decent cayman s...

[@NoChannelChannel]

At this point in sh!tsville aka Australia might as well get a donkey,

[@NortyNige]

Coming back to the real world for used car purchases how about a show on the work horse cars out here, The Camry the Lancer the commodore the the ten thousand dollar car bracket where you can still get a nice car with plenty of options and a bit of go for cheap stone axe reliable every day drivers.

[@adrianlowe1873]

The raptor to amarok comparison is shocking. The raptor is an off-road performance car, the amarok is an overpriced coffin. Sure it looks great but safety tech is nil to be seen and airbags are minimal. Not to mention used examples of the 580W can reach high $90k before on road.

[@ReDriven]

The Raptor certainly is an off-road performance car but it seems that the majority of owners drive them purely on-road. Hence, why not spend less, avoid the wait times and buy an Amarok now? (Excluding the lack of rear airbags but again, if the rear seats are rarely if ever used, why pay $100k or more or wait over a year?) - AK

[@codincoman9019]

For me what is shocking is the recommended Amarok, knowing the unreliability and the high TCO of VW.

[@ThatKLRrider]

RAV4, seriously?? Are you guys on the goods?

[@gloooooop]

Is that a 1m in the back?

[@tomnewham1269]

I’m surprised you suggested the Amarok. VW have a bad reputation of throwing its customers under the bus.

[@fritty9927]

Problem with Audi is it will break and cost mega bucks to fix.

[@floridaman7079]

Lol the fd2 was never sold in Australia..... and all examples are almost 40k

[@DanDanDan87]

Can you do a review about the best hilux in the world the big old n70

[@eduardosanchez7827]

They lost me when they proposed to buy a 25yo Toyota with McPherson suspension over a Jimny. BTW I don’t own or like the Jimny but the recommended RAV4 from the 90’s is ridiculous

[@rx-heaven8934]

Another thing to keep in mind is new cars are only going to depreciate. Many of these desirable older cars are starting to appreciate again.

[@FeelFree3]

The Jimny can't get 5 stars ANCAP could be a deal breaker.