The new EVO64 C64 Replica Board

[@umutk5614]

Even though it is quite expensive for an ordinary C64 fan, I am very delighted to see such products entering the market. Actually, it is unbelievable a computer 40 years old still get upgrades 😄 Thanks for the review Jan, so far the best review I have watched.

[@JamieOrlando]

Vic II and the Sid Chips would make a great band name

[@techdatamexico4530]

SID VICious !!!

[@jimsimpson1006]

@@techdatamexico4530 darn, I was going to say that.

[@m4dizzle]

I was not expecting the sound to be that different in stereo, wow!

[@bwack]

Yeay! Thanks for the mention. When I was contacted at the beginning of the EVO64 project, it was and still is a great honor for me that someone is taking inspiration from my design files :)

[@C64EVO]

You have inspired MANY of us and will continue to do so for years and years to come!

[@auro1999]

Bwack. While there is little or nothing left of your original project. I want to OPENLY thank you for bringing me back to the old EE hobby. I`m EE but I work as materials scientists developing materials for optics and electronics. Thank you BWACK, you rewinded my age of a couple of decades. Stefano.

[@JanBeta]

You contributed so much to the scene over the years, it's just amazing. You actually deserve many more shout outs than you get, I guess. :D Thanks for all your work and especially for making it publicly available so others can use it and expand on it (like with the EVO)!!

[@timwatson9198]

If someone makes an equivalent Amiga board I'm there

[@powervr]

there are... but you must put your's components... :D

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

Bob’s Bits Tindie.

[@milk-it]

Me, too. Although, I bought a custom remake motherboard of the original A4000D from a well known guy in Denmark who specialises in these boards, but it cost a king's ransom and still had mostly the original chips from Commodore. Nevertheless, it was a very professional remake (Chucky) and the components were soldered perfectly. If you've got the cash, almost anything is possible.

[@OscarSommerbo]

@@milk-it Minor quibble, Chucky (John Hertell) is Swedish. But his remakes are amazing feats of reverse engineering and knowledge. The A2000 board was a five layer board.

[@milk-it]

@@OscarSommerbo True.

[@Trevorodunne]

This is much better review of the EVO64 then the 8bitGuy, the sound was brilliant you could hear the different very quickly almost like CD quality. Great stuff.

[@YoreHistory]

Agreed, Jan does amazing deep dives.

[@willgibson8534]

The 8bitGuy hasn’t put up a quality video in years, all his videos are short, include little information or steps and most topics are boring. He used to be a youtube pro, now just a youtube bore. david Murry made his money on his super niche software projects, so now he spends his time in his computer shed cleaning his gu n e s.

[@laupert9021]

I cannot say which SID is ultimately better, but I’m amazed at how great they sound together. Great video as well.

[@JanBeta]

Thanks! Yup, the different SIDs all sound great in their own right. I particularly like the muffled and flawed qualities of the 6581s but as you said, together they sound just awesome. :D

[@Skizziks42]

I would really like for them to incorporate this into VICE.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Together they have such a fat sound. The subtle differences in envelope response time, filter cutoff slope, etc yield the same kind of slight differences between each side that many fancier synthesisers spend ages meticulously programming in.

[@RetroNowTV]

Also, great video to start the weekend with. Enjoying with a large mug of coffee. Thanks as always Jan!

[@pauldeane8369]

@51:10 Me! :) Great video! The most thorough evaluation yet. This is the only reproduction board I've actually wanted to get my hands on. There is so much OG equipment out there, it's easy to put together a C64. This is truly unique. Take the most interesting thing about the Commodore 64 and turn up to 11. I'm just jealous of you KZbinrs getting to play with it before me. :)

[@auro1999]

you do not need to wait that long. We already have some boards and nutube64 are coming as we speak

[@TSteffi]

The dual Sid sounds really awesome.

[@dls2684]

Really enjoyed this Jan! Thank you for all the detail.

[@CaptainLazy99]

Oh my G! NuTube sounds so awesome! Thanks for this video Jan.

[@melissarainchild]

it is NOT a mere "lovely" system...it is a majesticly wonderfull system!!! I love ittttt!

[@C64EVO]

That is a very kind thing to say. Thank you

[@YoreHistory]

What a thorough awesome review Jan!!! I really appreciate the comparison to reloaded.

[@bitdigital8052]

That thing is a dream machine. I actually bought similar low pro zif sockets for OG 64 project but after looking at how good this NEW board looks I kinda don’t want to waste them on the old green PCB. 🤔

[@JanBeta]

The ZIF sockets are nice indeed. I have to source some of those for future projects. :D

[@-CrippledNinja-]

"I'm not going to bore you with sound examples". Please do, I love SID. 🎶

[@Papierzeit]

Glad @JanBeta you got the board to test, I have a special idea and will send you a PM. I'm curious to see how this board behaves.

[@TBMartin]

Thank you for this video, first time I have heard audio from a double sid setup.

[@Nordischsound]

A friend of mine also recorded this cover of mine with a dual SID Setup, this is kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKScqniMerWIrLc great when you need more than 3 voices.

[@officermeowmeowfuzzyface4408]

This has been the best review so far.

[@JanBeta]

Thanks! :)

[@diegobudavari3943]

Excellent review, Jan! Very detailed, now i can’t wait to get one of those boards! 😂

[@JanBeta]

Thanks! I tried my best to look into every aspect. It’s an awesome new take on the glorious C64 indeed. :D

[@KieronWray]

another entertaining, fascinating and interesting and educational(!) vid - thanks so much

[@DavidBrant]

Its great folks are making these brand new mb, just keeps the c64 alive for the future. the tube pre amp is a tad overkill esp for 500 quid, but im sure it’ll find a niche buyer market. Would definitely be interested in an Amiga 1200 board. 😅

[@OzRetrocomp]

I get the appeal of the EVO64, as it seems like a decent replacement C64 board. However I struggle to see the point of the pre-amp options (especially the Triode64). Maybe that says more about me than the target market. Either way, it's great to see people are still pushing the C64's architecture to new limits over 40 years since it was released.

[@jengelenm]

Great video, Jan! As always!!

[@NiceIQMaz]

First time i heard nutube, its INSANE!! I wish i had one :( I would spent countless hours watching and listening to demos

[@JanBeta]

You can get quite similar results with a "simple" dual SID setup. The overtones that the NuTube adds are very subtle (albeit lovely, in my opinion). :)

[@RacerX-]

This is very cool. I am tempted but like you I already own too many C64s. My original breadbin and original C64c from back in the day still work. I have 2x ICS64S (which is one of my favorites) a Sixtyclone and a Reloaded Mk1. I am not sure what I would do with another one. haha. Great review and I think they will sell quite a few of these even if the price is premium.

[@fgaviator]

17:49 Fortunately, unlike the 8bitguy, Jan didn't reverse the SID and VIC chips when installing them in their sockets on the EVO board. I did not expect anything else from Jan. (Neither did I expect anything else from the 8bitguy... 😂🤣)

[@JanBeta]

The moment I cringed a bit was when he blamed his own mistake on the EVO creators. It is obvious which direction the ICs go into the board from the pictures in the documentation (even though it is not explicitly mentioned separately).

[@milk-it]

I was watching and noticed, that too! Die Deutschen sind sehr aufmerksam ;-).

[@milk-it]

@@JanBeta Ganz genau. Er hätte besser aufgepasst sollen.

[@rastislavzima]

Unsubscribed and i am not watching 8bitguy videos for quite a time, so it proved again my decision was correct! 😂

[@christianlarsen1070]

As for the Aries zif sockets it is a bit impractical that they don’t have a direction marker. On the other hand, it allows you do decide what end you want the lever in. I used them when I build my sixtyclone 250407, and theynallowed me to have all the caps on the topside, while replacing all large ICs with these zifs.

[@StepDub]

I sold my C64 to finance an Amiga 500. The Amiga was fantastic and helped me to move forward in computing, but I never felt the sense of wonder, excitement and discovery that went with the 64. I never thought that I would see the day when we actually had a choice of new implementations to choose from! Happy days again.

[@rosariodagosto6484]

Nice new c64 board .love the filtering on board 😊

[@CubicleNate]

I think the Evo64 is a great project because it does answer the question about what the Commodore 64 would have been like if higher quality components were used in its manufacturing. I love that it further extends the life of the 1980s platform. I wonder what the next steps are... as in, where do we go from here? This almost demands that the platform get extended further. Some kind of expectation for Dual SID and with the new VIC replacement that also extends the C64s capabilities, I would like to see some sort of... not quite next gen C64 but something that we can all enjoy, no matter the vintage of Commodore 64... Perhaps I am babbling...

[@a4000t]

Higher quality? the many original c64's have survived 40+ years now. It's incredible for a computer designed to last 4-5 years.

[@josehereter4062]

Thank you!!

[@avrilcadabra]

As a musician I don't think I am the target audience for the amp, we use studio reference monitors over consumer speakers to hear every bit of articulation and detail, so if you are using a 64 to natively write music on or as an instrument like you mentioned you want the most accurate reference point, a 64 plugged into reference monitors. The tube amp is removing some of the clarity and ability to hear the detail in how extremely fast the sid chips parameters change. If I did specifically want this tube sound afterwards there is a plethora of options including nutube pedals and preamps from Korg or something like an Elektron analogue heat which is going to give you a tonne of control and options that you can use on all your gear. It might make more sense for people who have no need to invest in studio gear but want a smoother more glued sound from their 64. That said it looks like a great board and the amps are totally optional, so win win for everyone.

[@JanBeta]

Good point! I was thinking that it would make sense in a live setup for musicians or as a standalone synth in a recording setup (which is probably what I’m going to use it for primarily). Definitely not for everybody but I don’t think that’s the intention of the project. ;)

[@MaidenAriana]

I laughed at the "I wish!" regarding the "& Team" - I think most people assume youtubers who produce great content like your channel have a production studio or many people behind the scenes. It takes years and years of working tirelessly usually entirely on your own to get to a point where a team is involved even after moderate success on this platform.

[@JanBeta]

Yeah, I guess there's quite a few people assuming the KZbinrs have a team to work on the videos. I don't know any KZbinrs from the retro realm that have a team really. Some have a family member helping out but these channels are single person endeavors for the most part (even the ones that are orders of magnitudes bigger than mine). And it's definitely a lot of work to tackle at my humble "level" already. :D

[@DrCRAZYde]

Nice one. For me my dream is an Posished Geos Type OS in the ROM.

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

Love the wombat sitting their!

[@JanBeta]

Yes! My great aunt and great uncle used to make them (I have a Tasmanian devil sitting on the other side of the monitor out of frame). They fled Germany when the Nazis took over in the 1930s and lived in Tasmania where they created art for a living. (They also had lots of children so I have a bunch of relatives down under that I didn’t meet yet.) 😅

[@EduArana]

Amazing looking board!

[@thefunkdroid2777]

EDUUUU Cuanto tiempo sin leerte tio! Desde que me quité de Twitter... 😅

[@EduardoArana-fw1wu]

@@thefunkdroid2777 hombre!! claro, ya no te juntas con la plebe :)

[@DavePoo2]

This got me thinking about how dual SIDs work. I know the C64 memory map has the SID registers repeated 32 times, so I suppose when Commodore designed the machine they maybe thought that they could support as many SIDs as they could get on the board (up to 32), and maybe they weren't sure how many channels they would be able to design into the single SID chip, they might be able to "multi-core" the SID so-to-speak. But then the actual C64 only has the single SID chip select line supported, so you can't just slap in another SID without changing more of the chip select circuitry (U15 chip selects the SID when the appropriate address lines are being accessed?). I assume these new boards have designed in the multi SID support? and I also assume that it's possible to put more than 2 in, but I've never noticed anything about triple SIDs or quadruple SIDs?

[@C64EVO]

The board is clearly supporting 2 physical SIDs, although if using an ARM2SID or FPGASID, it should be possible to support even more

[@TomStorey96]

It's probably not that they intended to put multiple SIDs in, but more that they just simplified the address decoding for a few chips (the same decoder also selects the colour RAM). Each of the devices (VIC included) is given a 1K block of memory to live in as a result of the colour RAM needing that much space. I guess they could have decoded further, but that would require more chips.

[@RasVoja]

More C64 power!

[@Godzilla_Jesus]

$1000 for a tube amp? It's a lovely project, but that is absolutely insane, I've got a little desktop tube amp (MC 84-C) with 6 tubes that costs less. Sorry, I don't want to be "that guy" but I think the pricing for this one is a bit aggressive. Cool project, but a little much for me.

[@JanBeta]

They are using studio grade components on that tube board afaik, so it's not really comparable with a consumer grade product (which I assume your preamp board is). Effects rack tube preamps for recording studio applications are usually in a similar price range (and well above that). I think they are definitely marking up the price to make a bit of an income from all the work they put into this but I would guess it's not as hilarious as it seems. It IS super over the top connecting something like that to a humble C64 but I kind of love the insanity of it (although I would definitely not be able to pay 1000USD for it).

[@Moonblade042194]

@@JanBetaaudio foolery, snake oil salesmen.

[@justinmijnbuis]

@@JanBeta studio grade components without proper shielding next to video generation circuitry ;-)

[@spacedock873]

Saw the 8-bit Guy's review of this board. The main board is excellent and is definitely worth considering for any C64 fan who wants to have a future-proof machine with modern components. The sound cards though - Ouch! I know it is impossible to make a valid comparison over KZbin due to sampling, compression and reconstruction but seriously?! However you process it in the machine this is still 80's vintage 8-bit sound generation. You might as well connect your NAD amplifier to a gramophone! $500? 😲 $1000? 🤣

[@C64EVO]

The available preamp modules are a niche offering for enthusiasts that want to experience them. They're not required for base functionality of the board. The cost for the modules is a reflection of the very high quality components, as well as the time and effort it takes to assemble, calibrate and test each module by hand (yes each is handmade). We're not expecting to sell tons of them, but we really wanted to have them for ourselves and to share them with others that might share a similar interest.

[@spacedock873]

@@C64EVO I am sure that the cost of the boards reasonably reflects the time and expense required to develop and produce them and I applaud your achievement. My doubt is whether it was really necessary (or sensible) to spend this amount of time, money and energy developing and building modules to amplify 80's 8-bit sound in the first place! The 8-bit Guy's final verdict was that the VFD module produced little if any improvement over the basic board and certainly did not justify paying $500 for. I suspect that the same will apply doubly to the $1000 board. Producing it for yourselves is one thing and offering it for sale is the next step, but in a time of global financial crisis the prices do seem rather laughable.

[@C64EVO]

Giving all due respect to David (The 8-Bit Guy), we love his contributions to the retro world, however he made it quite clear that he does not consider himself to be an effective judge of something as subjective and personal as audio quality. His attempt at a putting together a quantifiable set of measurements was quite limited. Comparing the waveforms actually has no meaningful relationship to the sound character, which needs to be experienced to be appreciated. I don't think David would disagree with anything I've said there. You'll notice that Jan is sharing a quite different subjective experience in this video, which we certainly did not ask him to do. Other than providing him with the board, we did not otherwise sponsor or attempt to influence his opinions in any way. Obviously we think it would be great if others choose to experience and enjoy the preamp modules in the same way that we do, but leaving them as a separate option makes this a personal decision for each hobbyist.

[@michaelmadsen4923]

48:37 "But you probably have something else to do" Trust, me. Anyone that watches your channel does NOT have anything else to do and could also listen to SID music all day long :D

[@maltronics]

Jan that cut on your thumb looks bad. Make sure you cover it up so you will get no infections .Great vlog Jan

[@JanBeta]

Oh, it's nearly healed now. It looked worse than it was, just a surface scratch really. :)

[@bluehatguy4279]

I have a brother-in-law that is a musician. The cost might stop me, but I am kinda curious if he would enjoy receiving one of these as a gift. I'm curious what music making software exists that would take advantage of the fancy dual sid hardware.

[@johandenhertog6878]

Great C64 Frankenstein board. Do now a lot of stuff with the SFX Sound Expander and the FM YAM inside it on the C64 Reloaded MK1. The EVO64 would be a great board for Demos if I can afford it.

[@auro1999]

you can afford it. Get it step by step. You do not need everything in one shot.

[@p0k314COM]

Not my vibe, but great review of a great product.

[@jameslewis2635]

The only incompatibilty of the EVO64 that I know of is the one between my wallet and how much these boards sell for.

[@lordkaosny]

Great video. Where did you get the C64 A/V adapter at 35:00? Are you happy with it?

[@martinholder9806]

Hallo Jan, ich freue mich über das neue Bord. Wo oder wie bekommt man die "Nullkraftsockel" sind sehr klein. Danke für eine antwort. Weiter so

[@JanBeta]

Die Sockel sind von Aries: www.arieselec.com/product/10018-low-profile-zif-test-socket/

[@RetroNowTV]

This is such a lovely board and those ZIF sockets are amazing. I know I can't justify the premium cost of this, but I suspect that won't stop me adding one to my collection in the long run. To be honest I've already started saving my pennies. 😉

[@JanBeta]

Yeah, it is an amazing board indeed! The price is kind of justified in my opinion (while it's still way over my budget -- but I am lucky enough to have gotten one for free). :D

[@rastislavzima]

Love my CPC's but yeah I have to admit that SID is superior over AY... 8580 seems produces nicer sound than 6581

[@JanBeta]

Yes, the 8580 has some flaws of the previous versions fixed. It's generally a lot cleaner sounding than the 6581. Both have their pros and cons I think. A matter of taste. The SID was superior to pretty much everything else at the time I think, mostly due to the fact that it was designed by Bob Yannes who was a synthesizer designer really and had not designed any ICs before. So it was a kind of a happy accident that he started designing something more ambitious than usual because he lacked the knowledge about the restrictions (afaik he originally planned to design the SID with a lot more voices and filters but had to downsize it to 3 channels in the end). :)

[@rastislavzima]

@@JanBeta thanks, didn't know about this

[@upspaul7778]

From Klingon Qapla' (“success”).

[@JanBeta]

Indeed!

[@florianthesnow]

I like those kinds of project, but I also wonder with all the replacement parts that aren’t really made like the originals, do we just move closer and closer to distributing something really similar to an FPGA implementation, but distributed across a traditional board?

[@C64EVO]

We have made quite a bit of effort to remain as faithful to the original system architecture as we thought made sense, given what's possible to have produced today, in small batches.

[@florianthesnow]

@@C64EVO No doubt about that and I’m not criticizing your efforts, in fact I appreciate them a lot! I just wonder about the differences to FPGA implementations, especially because they also keep on getting better 😊

[@surmo]

You need to cover up that gash! Looks painful!

[@JanBeta]

Looks worse than it is, it's just a surface scratch really (I tried to modify some furniture and slipped with the saw...). :D

[@surmo]

@@JanBeta You'll have to reset the plant accident counter :-(

[@richardkelsch3640]

The SID is solid state. It has digital and analog solid state circuitry, and because it's MOS, low quality, with the fidelity of a good AM radio. Tacking an outrageously expensive tube amplifier at the end of the solid state audio chain is ridiculously stupid. Tubes cannot improve the sound. You're better off using a TL082 JFET Op-Amp (used in very high quality audio designs). That chip and surrounding circuitry would cost about $15 US. A bit of truth here though... Tubes (valves) introduce distortion that audiophiles consider quite pleasing. This is due to their very high impedance nature. They favor mid-range frequencies and thus makes it seem vocals jump out. Due to their high impedance nature, low frequency response can suffer without an extremely robust tube and power supply. Many tube designs can also emit hum, although here there is likely a switching inverter to achieve the needed high voltage minimizing that. Clipping distortion in tubes is spongy as they are not high-ampere devices. The power supply will sag when the audio "punches" or has instant high output bursts, although the sag occurs throughout the output range. Put a scope on a tube amp power supply and watch it sag at normal volume and high volume. This tends to cause "warm" sound. It's just distortion, but gentle. Solid state devices are typically low impedance, and their circuits are relatively low voltage but much higher amperage than a tube design. Solid state will typically reach essentially a brick wall when their power supply is taxed. This makes clipping quite harsh. However, a good solid state design (with FET and JFET designs) will be able to reproduce a frequency response flat across the audio spectrum, and distortion values barely measurable. Really good valve amplifiers will typically be %2 - %0.1 distortion and solid state can be as low as %0.001. This is all an over-priced gimmick like Monster Cable speaker wire. It's your money... whatever.

[@JanBeta]

That's an opinion I guess. Coming from an audio engineering background myself, I know that tube preamps can make all the difference. The harmonic distortion they add has a positive effect on the perceived sound for many people, no matter what the original sound source is. I used (real) tube preamps for a lot of vocal recordings and on many other tracks in the studio, sometimes even running whole mixes through tubes to make them blend together better. A very common thing to do these days in professional audio work is to use tube preamps in conjunction with a digital recording environment to make things sound more "natural". It's definitely not audiophile snake oil as you frame it. On the other hand, some speaker wires are. Also, the way you talk about the quality of the SID's output is bordering on blasphemy. ;P In the end, as with all things regarding audio, it's a matter of taste.

[@TBMartin]

Back in your box Rich

[@richardkelsch3640]

@@JanBeta Like I said "distortion that sounds pleasing". I know it sounds counter-productive, but to the human ear, the distortion tubes introduce sound pleasing, "warm", "open" etc are used as good descriptions of this phenomenon. If I am doing a voice-over, I want to sound "radio talk show", I would use tube pre-amplifiers to give the '50s AM radio warm sound for my voice. Ever notice how the "tube sound" can be pronounced on older recordings and most especially radio broadcasts? Tube has a specific purpose, although due to their rarity today, quite expensive. You can simulate the "tube sound" without a tube. Use FETs, JFETs and make their power supplies spongy (resistor / capacitor / resistor). Keep the entire circuit high impedance throughout the chain with a relatively high voltage and low amperage supply. You can use metal film resistors in series with the stages to help maintain the "weak" amperage of the signal itself as well. Keep it strictly a voltage amplifier (like a tube). I'd be willing to bet you could fool a tube fanatic with a simulated FET and JFET audio voltage amplifier with a spongy power supply. It would be "blasphemy", but highly possible. My peeve here is to tack on a ridiculously expensive gimmick on an already poor quality signal generated by a cheap MOS SID. SIDs fail because their low quality bi-polar transistors suck. This is Commodore we are talking about here, the kings of cheap. SID was a technological marvel, cheaply made, in the 1980s, and using cheap quality silicon.

[@imranahmad2733]

What about the microphonics! I guess everything a valve amp can do a DSP and lookup table could do but it's probably more direct to use valves instead of all the extra mathematical and software engineering that would have to be done to emulate valve characteristics.

[@danielmantione]

The SID is not a sound reproduction device that needs to reproduce sound as accurately as possible. Its job is to generate pleasing sounds. Therefore adding pleasing sounding distortions is IMO a good thing. Still, I think tubes are a bit overhyped: They may sound more pleasing when overdriven, but under normal drive, they don't do amplification better than a transistor. The sound fragments sound like perfectly normal SID sound to me, not better, not worse.

[@oidadesgibtsned]

Good Lord, that's AMAZING. I'm a long time C64-Enthusiast - I 've caught the IT Virus on a C64 as a Child. So, I'm so going to get one. *gg* Besides, Qa'pla!

[@auro1999]

QAPLA`

[@jstro-hobbytech]

I have a mint looking c64 and floppy drive. The caps need replacing but I can tell I'm the first person in it. I have the original manual too. I don't want it. All I want is around 50 bucks to pack it while the person pays shipping. I have no where to put it

[@matsedererklar-bar8658]

First, I understood "the Evil 64 Team" 😆😜 But for sure, it's not!

[@JanBeta]

They are not very evil as far as I can tell! :D

[@hicknopunk]

Why didn't they make it a C128?

[@hachy2689]

| Awesome ! | :3

[@auro1999]

thanks

[@CommodoreFan_nl]

How about a compare to the similar "Reloaded MK2" ?

[@JanBeta]

Um, did you watch the video?

[@mwaddams]

Gotta love the subs at 13:13 Commodore Sex Divorce. A 6 is actually pronounced close to 'sex' in German, so I guess it picked up Jan's accent :)

[@JanBeta]

Haha, I didn't notice that. That's what you get when you trust an AI to do the subtitles, I guess. Maybe the sex divorce was what brought down Commodore in the 1990s? :D

[@mwaddams]

@@JanBeta I think the AI is on to something :) I remember Amiga's downfall due to Mehdi Ali, which reversed basically says I laid 'em. And they say it all stupid conspiracies...

[@jeroentaverne8232]

Why are the dipswitches above the SIDs on small PCBs?

[@C64EVO]

Those DIP switches are removable. They sit on top of standard headers so that an auto-switching module like the Keyman64 can be added to control ROM changes if that’s desired

[@auro1999]

because they are temporary and act like jumpers. THere will be a remote control and a keyboard switcher, eventually.

[@twocvbloke]

Can't say it's for me, given how much it costs to acquire a decent (and working!) C64 these days, even if it's to chip-harvest, it would make it way too expensive for my pocket, and that's not including the tube amps (which personally I don't get, but I never have done with tube amps in general anyway), and besides, someone would need to manufacture a smoked-clear topped case to give it the looks it'd deserve, which I guess would also add to the cost... :P

[@JanBeta]

Yeah, it's definitely not cheap! As I said, I probably would not be able to justify a purchase had I not been given this for free.

[@terryraymond7984]

on the Evo board is the pin 1 indicator visible I had heard they are hard to find

[@JanBeta]

I think on the bare PCB (and in case you use regular sockets) they are marked clearly. They are covered by the ZIF sockets that were pre-soldered on the review units though.

[@auro1999]

All stuff which you can put/remove points north. Instructions ARE and WERE ALWAYS provided in all the sample shipments. No blame goes to the developers.

[@terryraymond7984]

The FPGA Sid uses Dual Sid can you explain that sometime

[@JanBeta]

Oh, I think the way it works is that it's just "listening" to the standard addresses that the regular "physical" dual SID mods usually use. The FPGA allows for two SIDs to be emulated at once. The ARMSID is able to do the same. It's just a matter of running an extra connection to the output jack to get the stereo effect. :)

[@meh3247]

Much better than 8 Bit Guy's _(or as I prefer to call the gun loving Texan foolhardy man who knows nothing of anti-static wriststraps, "Howdy Arabia")_ brief 20 minute video that spent too much time advertising his own rubbishy game.

[@terryraymond7984]

will that dual Sid use $DEOO address ?

[@C64EVO]

Yes - you can use a jumper or dip switch to enable the second SID to listen on $DE00. Separately, you can also enable $DF00. The default addresses that reach the second SID are $D420 and $D500.

[@XenoxParticularSound]

to hear the beste difference between the original and the nutube version, you should make another video with only one SID because you use a different SID chip on every channel, i can't really compare the difference...!

[@JanBeta]

Yes, good point!

[@terryraymond7984]

I bought a Mega65 so that is toy enough for awhile, very expensive

[@Retrocomputernerd]

Does this fit in the C64C case as well as the “breadbin” ?

[@JanBeta]

Yes, it fits both. Although there seems to be a slight positioning issue with the audio jack on the preamp board if you put it in a C64C case (the connector doesn't quite line up with the cutout in the case but you can work around that by using slightly smaller standoffs for the preamp board). Breadbin case fits 100% fine.

[@domramsey]

In the 8-Bit Guy's video, he had to change the stand-offs and physically re-drill one of the screw holes in the board because it was the wrong size. For such an expensive product, they didn't seem to do a lot of testing.

[@oidadesgibtsned]

Yeah, that board definitely looks to be better fitting in a bread bin case. ;)

[@oidadesgibtsned]

@@domramsey well, it IS based on assy 250407 - and that's bread bin suited. ;)

[@auro1999]

yes perfectly on the C64. Jack audio: no problem. The production version of the nutube64 has pads for the jack ABOVE and BELOW the board so you can put the plug wherever you want.

[@Oem5]

Is there a board or mod to make it into hdmi?

[@JanBeta]

Yes, the full version of the VIC-II Kawari board replaces the graphics chip and offers HDMI out and some other neat features. As far as I know, it’s not readily available due to component shortages currently. I made a video testing a pre-production board a while back, too. Product page is here: accentual.com/vicii-kawari/

[@KAPTKipper]

NuTubes are known to be microphonic. Does tapping the board affect the noise?

[@hicknopunk]

I'd buy one of the aftermarket mounting solutions, just to be sure.

[@C64EVO]

I'm sure you want to hear Jan's response to that question, but I can add that the mounting solution that has been implemented for EVO does already include vibration dampening, which should resist microphonics under basic movement conditions, like using the keyboard. It would take a more abrupt and deliberate type of system jostling to cause any discernible microphonic noise to enter the signal.

[@hicknopunk]

@@C64EVO oh good!

[@auro1999]

1) no if you type on the C64 2) no if you tap the board 3) yes if you tap the nutube. The device is NOT mounted flush with the board but elevated of 2-3 mm, to reduce vibration. As the guy below says, it is possible to put a foamy support and a flex connector

[@hicknopunk]

@@auro1999 nice

[@blackcountryme]

What the hell? a dueling scar on your hand? you're not meant to duel with soldering irons!! 😂

[@JanBeta]

Oh, it wasn't a soldering iron but a saw (and me being not cautious enough). Healed nearly completely in the meantime though! :D

[@blackcountryme]

@@JanBeta A saw? That seems to be somehow worse than a soldering iron tbh. "Jan's a lumberjack and he's ok..."

[@MrHkrammes]

Cool. Only miss the green board. I think it would be much nicer if the board were the traditional green instead of this ugly black coat.

[@atarimex2643]

I would think for a fairer comparison you would need to fully recap/update the regular C64’s with new components. Honestly, I just couldn’t hear any the difference between the 2. At the $$$ evo64, I don’t think regular c64 owners will pay for this fancy board. Some of us are still connect ing our c64’s to a crt tv or a 1702 monitor…..:….their speaker are 40 years old. 😂😂😂 If all you need is a modern reliable computer on hdmi TheC64 is perfectly ok for casual gaming. I agree, this is specialty product.

[@C64EVO]

Needless to say, no one is obligated to buy this. There are LOTS of C64 remakes out there already, which cater to a wide variety of interests. Surely there's room for this one, which as Jan said at the beginning of his video, has been designed to provide the best quality audio and video experience possible from the original system architecture. It may not appeal to a huge audience, but we certainly hope that it's exactly what *some* folks have been wishing for... All the best,

[@atarimex2643]

@@C64EVO surely……that is why I said I agree with him.

[@auro1999]

AtariMex. Perfectly legitimate. If your C64 works well, and you do not need any extra features, there is no reason to pursue this project. I designed because I was not happy of my existing C64 and of the available boards.,

[@atarimex2643]

@@auro1999 congratulations on your design, I am sure some c64 fans will be happy and thrilled to get one. All success!

[@JanBeta]

The C64s I used for comparison are both fully restored and recapped. I should probably have mentioned that. ;) As I said, the EVO is definitely a niche product but a lovely addition to the options available nowadays for the C64 experience that caters to your specific needs and preferences. :)

[@nigellaubsch4499]

Why can't I find this thing even with Google??

[@JanBeta]

The link is in the video description: EVO64.com

[@nigellaubsch4499]

@@JanBeta sorry mate - didn't see it🙄

[@nigellaubsch4499]

@@JanBeta thanks

[@martymcfly4772]

Over the Top are the Prices too ^^

[@C64EVO]

Did you actually look into any of the module or component prices before commenting? Curious to know what you think it should cost for a brand new C64 design that incorporates ClearVideo64, MixSID Stereo, RePROM64, MOS8701 replacement, SRAM upgrades, a Nutube VFD and other audio grade components?

[@Mr1X]

what happend to your thumb?

[@JanBeta]

It was an accident with a hole saw. Looks worse than it is though!

[@stephenkennedy6358]

IS THE VIDEO ON THE EVO NOTICEABY BETTER THAN THE RELOADED BOARD?

[@auro1999]

yes, that`s the reason I built it

[@JanBeta]

The Reloaded has the same output quality like an original C64 (it just adds a couple of extra options for connectors so you don't have to use the original DIN socket for video output), the ClearVideo on the EVO board definitely improves the output quite a bit if you set it up correctly.

[@fu1r4]

It is not hard to build something if there is no price tag limit. The hard thing is to build a fairly good quality to a low price. Commodore did that 😃

[@C64EVO]

It would be wonderful to see your design and what price point you’re able to achieve with it. All the best.

[@Bewefau]

Nah not work just greed.

[@C64EVO]

Yes, indeed. GPT-4 designed and tested the whole thing itself, *instantly* with a single text prompt. ...or Maybe a small team of C64 enthusiasts spent over a year developing and testing countless prototype systems using their personal funds to make something unique and special. If you priced the components yourself you would know.

[@lucasRem-ku6eb]

Why no TV modulator, now i can't connect ir ! C64 needs a TV !

[@JanBeta]

The original modulator circuit messes with the output signal quite a bit so it was removed and replaced with a cleaner circuit in the EVO. You can still use the composite or luma/chroma output and feed it into an external RF modulator (which probably works better than the original ones anyway) to have an output on an old TV set.

[@lucasRem-ku6eb]

@@JanBeta Thanks, i use Sony HDMi DVD / HDD recorder for all my antena gear now !

[@beatchef]

I am a complete C64 Noob but the Cauldron demo makes it seem like the 8580 SID chip is much better. Much fuller bass. But online they say the opposite is true.

[@JanBeta]

Both SID revisions have their pros and cons. They fixed some issues from the older 6581s with the 8580 version and made it sound a bit cleaner in general. Some people prefer one over the other and there's actually some compositions that are aimed at particular SIDs to make them sound as they were intended by the creator. In the end, it's all a matter of taste. :)

[@arjanvanraaij8440]

@@JanBeta or what you are use to hear.

[@oidadesgibtsned]

To me as a hard-of-hearing person each SID sounds more or less the same. DOn't have the fine-hearing resolution to perceive all the little differences any more. that being said, I do love SID-Sound and SID Tunes.

[@Somelucky]

Wow! The two different SIDs in stereo is amazing!

[@milk-it]

You did a real justice to demonstrating the sound in the EVO64 board! I upgraded my pre-order to include not only the NuTube64, but the Triode64. I've still got my original C64 which works flawlessly, and the demonstration you provided here gives more depth of sound and clarity without distortion compared to the original. The rest of the deep dive into the configuration is much appreciated and sadly lacking from another KZbinr's video I recently watched. Danke Dir!

[@auro1999]

Milk-it, Send an email to Darrell and explain your position. I have some different ways to to the triode64 and I might need some extra ears for testing. Are you in USA ?

[@C64EVO]

Updated May 6th 2023: Latest testing video of the near production-ready Triode64 module kzbin.info/www/bejne/bajYh4GcgKmMjtk

[@ITGuyinaction]

👍 👍 👍 Great video! Although I prefer the genuine retro computers...

[@JanBeta]

I generally do, too. I kind of love the fact that there are new boards these days though. :D

[@ITGuyinaction]

@@JanBeta For sure, it's interesting to watch it!

[@Colin_Ames]

Jan, this is an outstanding review, much more in-depth than another one made by someone who shall remain nameless! I have never owned a C64, but enjoy seeing content related to it, both repair videos and ones such as this, showcasing modern interpretations. I am not an audiophile, so am not qualified to comment on whether the $500 and $1000 add-ons are worth the money. Obviously you were impressed, and I give kudos to the creators for satisfying a niche market. I wish them success. I also look forward to your followup video where you create a synthesizer.

[@JanBeta]

Thanks! I tried to do the EVO justice. As I said, I would probably not buy it if I hadn’t gotten the review unit myself. But I’m sure there are people who have enough cash and who can make good use of it! I ordered a MIDI cart in the meantime for the synthesizer project, hope to start with that soon. :)

[@jantestowy123]

The best video on EVO64 on the Internet hands down! Klasse gemacht!

[@monchiabbad]

The big "chip" with the glass window and the two glowing laghts is the real tubes.

[@JanBeta]

You could say that. It’s VFD "tubes" that are used to resemble a real tube/valve sound. Works pretty well in this case. The same technique is used in a plethora of outboard preamps and audio effects devices.

[@Nordischsound]

Cool, C64 will never die 🥳

[@OscarSommerbo]

It will since there are still chips that has no modern replacements. And you get into the ship of Theseus if you use HW emulation for the sid and vic2. But then there are cycle perfect emulators, so maybe by that token it will never die.

[@erwindewit4073]

That is SO cool! I'm really curious about the NuTube itself as it seems to be a miniaturised version of a real valve. But wow, the price, and I AM one of those crazy audiophile types...! However, I thought, I need a case for that. So I looked in my Commodore crate (parts, but I remembered I had a C64C and a C128 in there that I needed to look at). I thought that the C64C case might be nice to use. SO, I brought it down and decided to test it first. So, remembering what you said, measured the voltages first (which were fine) and powered on the machine after that. Fully expecting it not to work. But it did... And it kind of looks quite nice. Keyboard is perfect, perhaps a big discoloured. Still, open it I shall, so I flipped it over. Ah, made in West Germany. Wow, that brings me back memories of wanting to travel to Berlin when the wall fell, but okay. And for me, this is the very first C64 that I've seen in the past 10 years or so that hasn't been opened before (seal is in tact) and still works fine. Of course, I don't come across many, but I thought it was quite cool! So I'll have to go look for another case, and I'm going to make this my first restoration project. Cool! Will use your videos to see what to replace of course!

[@micv2]

A C64 mainboard for individualists. Nice that there is. C64 Alive. Thanks for the test 👍😎

[@BigBadBench]

Thank you for going into so much detail about the audio. Very informative and sounds awesome!

[@hollgo626]

Die Idee des EVO Board ist so etwa wie die, als ob man an einen alten Opel Kadett einen Satz an modernen Ferrari Teilen montieren plus einigen Extra Gimmicks schrauben würde. Sicherlich irgendwie originell, aber irgendwie....

[@HPPalmtopTube]

now some big fans, water cooling and RGB lights everywhere :)

[@LP6_yt]

I'd love to think that the 'QAPLA' label is a Star Trek Klingon reference! 'SUCCESS!'

[@C64EVO]

Spot on! docs.google.com/document/d/1FS7WOKs4T5evn5urdY_PP3zLMoXYe2qxybZdXSJ7aDo/edit?usp=sharing

[@LP6_yt]

@@C64EVO Love it!

[@giuseppelavecchia775]

Eccellente motherboard,C64 al top!

[@tommyovesen]

Looks very nice! You obviously figured out what way the VIC-II was supposed to go :) Wonder why they did not replace the color ram (2114) with something newer? Looking forward to the recapping video in 2063 :)

[@C64EVO]

The color RAM may get the SMD treatment is a future board revision… After all, it is EVOlving…

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

DOOD!