The New Republic Doesn't Work | Star Wars

[@TemplinInstitute]

Do you want to introduce a motion of no confidence against the Templin Institute after watching this? Go here join the Galactic Senate: discord.gg/templininstitute

[@Banter07]

First reply I think

[@pacificfederationpeacekeep999]

Hey guys , i like too see another well scripted and illustrated video... These vids really helped me to evolve my English... So i have a question? could you make an ace combat or project wingman related video?

[@zeroexea]

Holy s*** The templin institute sees the truth of what's occurring! There is hope in this doomed Galaxy of ours. I guess it makes sense considering how many dystopian alternate universes you look at on a regular basis that you would start seeing the patterns and where they apply here.

[@danielbeck2739]

I loved the First Order videos, really looking forward to this. Also going to have the voting like the second one for the First Order?

[@stanisawzokiewski3308]

Are all democracies decandent? No. Would a Galaxy wide one be. Yes. There is no way the desparaty between entire star systems wouldnt lead to problems like what happend in the first republic. The core world had such a massive population and wealth advantage they were bound to dominante the politics od the senate and the lore follows that as well as many similar histocal comparisons. In any state there is corruption in the galactic senate there would na Galaxy worth of corruption. In ancient greece there were direct democracies. It was possibile due to small size and population. On any larger scale representative systems are needed. There is no way that scaling it to a galaxy makes it any better.

[@ontasbulent5709]

New Republic: You can’t train or mobilize Stormtroopers Empire: Well I will simply call them Imperial troopers and put a red paint over them

[@levishaun8334]

Empire: Thanks for letting us keep all of our surviving star destroyers by the way... for peace keeping, obviously. Also nice job completely disarming yourselves, we'll follow suit. At some point in the future.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Or just make them Imperial Navy Troopers. LOL.

[@kevinaustin51]

@@HolyknightVader999 hey remember how there was a small internal conflict between the navy and army of the empire well thanks to the new republic we’ve been able to resolve it and are now more coordinated thanks new republic for solving our in-trenched rivalry- sincerely the guy commencing an orbital bombardment of your world

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@kevinaustin51 The New Republic was a mistake.

[@mithrawnudo2152]

Weimar Republic: Vas do you mean ve have tanks? Zees are simple farming traktors, just look at ze name. *points to Leichttraktor*

[@loltwest9423]

I love how the first 2 minutes basically sums up why I hate the world-building of TFA. All that time and effort just for it to disappear overnight. As though everything our heroes had fought for was for nothing. The only way that could be possible is through sheer, immense incompetence...and it's honestly a shame that happens more often than we like.

[@misterragnar2521]

looks like the new republic fell to the same issues that the High Republic had. Corruption and incompetence, it feels like a spit in the face to the entire original trilogy.

[@jacobchinn8593]

I think the sequel trilogy is characterized by wasted effort, whether it's the creation and subsequent destruction of the New Republic, or the death and subsequent cloning of Palpatine. It made Vaders sacrifice, and the sacrifice of all the rebels mean nothing. Maybe this universe is supposed to be a quasi Warhammer 40k where there is only war and no progress made.

[@TiddyTwyster]

I can't really articulate why I hate it, but I will say those plot twists felt like something a 12 year old would come up with

[@neocomp92]

In a smarter story, one could have made the argument that freedom and democracy requires vigilance and strength to keep it upright. Or make a case for nihilism, that nothing is permanent and the wheels of fate means that what was once was, shall be again. A twist of sorts to the fantasy of "prophecy fulfilled, here's happily ever after".

[@NODnuke45]

I have to admit after seeing this comprehensive explanation of Disney's New Republic, it is chillingly realistic. It strongly resembles the effects that forgetfulness of history has on entire nations. Nations which are supposed to stand for certain idealistic principles like individualism, liberty, or even just better lives for everyone, become corrupted by those who oppose such ideals until that nation is unrecognizable, some faster than others. And nations which are already corrupt fall deeper into a state of submission to a tyrannical regime. But... that doesn't make up for lack of internal consistency, or the story seeming like it was made by a team of writers who each want to take it in their own completely different direction.

[@TGOPoma]

Templin Institute: “The New Republic Doesn’t Work” Me, with my knowledge of Post-Endor canon: NO SHIT!

[@phoenixshadow6633]

No FUCKING shit is the term you are looking for

[@amazingbro6723]

With Arnold voice in there

[@fumarc4501]

Looks like the Sith is our only hope

[@Cybernaut551]

*Laughing in Star Wars Legacy*

[@dar-nakkallig]

Me, knowing what happens in the Sequel Trilogy: I thought it was obvious.

[@KneelB4Bacon]

JJ wanted to do a "New Hope" reboot, right down to Rebels vs Empire. The problem was, the Empire was thoroughly crushed at the end of "Return of the Jedi." The canon didn't allow JJ to tell the story HE wanted and he didn't want to work for it. So he said, "f*ck it" and in the opening crawl of "The Force Awakens" we get, "The First Order has risen from the ashes of the Empire." And . . . that's it. That's all you're going to get. This is JJ's way of saying, "this is just the way things ARE, now. Deal with it." It's the awful way that JJ writes. And it's the awful way he continued to write in "Rise of Skywalker." When Lando shows up at the end with 10,000 ships, someones says, "they're just . . . people" because when you have no Republic and you've done no world building, then that awful line is all you CAN say.

[@RemnantCult]

People complained about the EU but man, I want the old EU back, the real EU.

[@kellmedd4925]

@adenosine 2 electric boogaloo The European Union would stomp both the New Republic and First Order ez

[@orinjball5138]

This was exactly my thought after seeing The Force Awakens. As someone who has only recently gotten into Star Wars because of Andor, I decided to look into the lore of the sequels to see what came of the Rebellion after the original trilogy. They seem to have literally chosen the dumbest and laziest way to proceed, story-wise.

[@jimmo682]

@adenosine2electricboogaloo647 No. The EU is what the original extended universe was called. Disney scrapped it before they made their movies.

[@dragonstormx]

Throughout TFA I kept asking “who are these people” whenever the first order came up, along with the resistance. It is especially irritating since Rey was meant to be a surrogate for the audience so the movie could’ve simply had her ask what was going on. She had been more or less living under a rock so well you could easily say she doesn’t know what’s going on in the rest of the Galaxy. The movie could have scrapped that scene with the Pirates, which I have often forgot existed, and just have Rey ask Han what the hell is going on.

[@conor7575]

One of the big issues with the New Republic is that it took the wrong lessons from the rise of the Empire and repeated the mistakes of the Old Republic. Palpatine was able to amass so much power because people were tired of the gridlock and inefficiencies of the Republic. Instead of addressing these issues, the New Republic thought the lesson was a strong executive is bad, rather then toothless executive will make people forget the issues of one that is too strong.

[@SumBrennus]

A third option -- one that is completely sidelined in Star Wars -- is the Judicial Branch. Not once have we seen or heard of an effective judiciary. It seems that the Star Wars universe uses force to solve any and all conflicts from the interpersonal to the political. But then again the franchise isn't Star Lawyers.

[@AlexSDU]

That should be make into a series.

[@seekingabsolution1907]

Alternatively, don't immediately hand power back to the monarchs capitalists and nobles that used to staff the old senate who were directly responsible for its decline and destruction.

[@TheSquareheadgamer]

Clone Wars showed a trial but that was an odd case where a Jedi was accused of terrorism within the Jedi Temple and killed some clones as well. So it is overlapping areas of influence so likely not a normal trial. Also Mace Windu was afraid of Palatine standing trial so we likely assume the Supreme Chancellor might have had some influence over the Judicial Branch

[@bakasta5992]

We need a ace attorney game but set in Star Wars

[@johay899]

I wish it was

[@TheLoreMasterYT]

Was looking forward to this after seeing you mention it on Twitter.

[@amazingbro6723]

The lord himself is here

[@tankofreality4550]

It needed more tanks

[@randomcommenter9759]

"I've been looking forward to this" - CD

[@LeHunter70]

Poggers

[@melindamelow9225]

A surprise to be sure but a welcome one

[@KingOfMadCows]

They should have established that after the Empire fell, all the old enmities resurfaced. All those thousands of Separatist worlds still wouldn't like the Republic. Many of them may even blame the Republic for the rise of the Empire. It should have been established from the start that the New Republic was never able to unite the galaxy and there were many competing factions. The Empire remnants could have taken advantage of the chaos. They're not powerful enough to reconquer the galaxy but they're strong enough to defeat each of the factions one by one. The First Order could have used a divide and conquer strategy, employing subterfuge, assassinations, and political manipulation to keep the different factions at each other's throats while they slowly consolidated their power. Heck, bring back cloning technology. Except this time, instead of making a clone army, the First Order secretly replaces leaders and military commanders of neutral worlds with clones under their control.

[@chimeraelite]

That would require vision and a cohesive story. Not to mention slow bits without the MCs in cool stances or shooting something. It would be like Obi wan in the great library doing research and chatting with his fellow Jedi. Which I adore, but I appreciate the quiet moments anyway.

[@YenSnipest]

Yeah...EU did it better.

[@PartigradeCannon]

Doesn't it take years to clone someone, and all you'd get is their identical twin? They wouldn't have all the personal knowledge that the original had.

[@drizzt7dourden7]

@@PartigradeCannon worse, IF you use the accelerated aging to get a fully grown human (like they did with the clone troopers) they KEEP aging rapidly. And at least in the old cannon there was no known "cure" for this. On the other hand if you DONT use accelerated aging... you just have a human growing at normal speed... Both options would be pretty useless for this purpose.

[@KingOfMadCows]

@@PartigradeCannon they still have accelerated training for clones. They wouldn't be able to replicate someone perfectly but they can potentially gather a lot of Intel on the person they want to replace and make a copy that's good enough to pass off as the original for a few critical missions, like sabotaging a treaty with the New Republic or naming a successor who is a First Order sympathizer.

[@ludicrus32]

The thing is, the Legends continuity, I feel, handled this a lot better. The New Republic was on shaky ground for a good while, and it addressed a lot of these issues- and it did eventually collapse, after the Yuzhaan Vong War, but only so a new, more efficient government could replace it- one that was still spiritually connected to the ideals of the Old Republic. It's a slow evolution that sees well-meaning and intelligent people making well-meaning and intelligent choices, but simply aren't able to predict the problems the Galaxy faces after the end of the Empire. It's bittersweet too, that ultimately, the Republic couldn't be reborn- but its ideals lived on all the same.

[@yaujj65]

Something that intrigued me of the Galactic Alliance is that they were less reliant on the Jedi this time. The GA and Jedi act more as allies instead. GA did struggle against the Sith in the long war but they handle their own well alone before their alliance with the Empire and Jedi.

[@Melody_Raventress]

Because it was made with love. That's why it works, the people who collaborated on it cared about the world and (usually) treated it gently and with respect for what came before. Now by contrast...this.

[@facundopollacino7956]

La Alianza Galáctica fue mejor qué toda esta mierda.

[@krishkrish8213]

I mean, the fel empire was way better.

[@theunitedstatesofamerica1559]

"Dosen't work" that's a pretty accurate description of the entire sequel trilogy

[@peterhanes7333]

Not to mention, a rotating capital should have actually been an encouragement to keep fighting. A rotating capital means no world is irreplaceable. There would almost certainly have been New Republic government officials who were not on Hosnian Prime. Are you telling me none of them got together to make a wartime government? Was there no chain of command? No designated survivor? That seems like carelessness on the Republic's part.

[@balvarine8709]

TBF, no one would expect their entire command structure to be decapitated in an alpha-strike that eliminated the entire Hosnian System. Whatever barely functioning chain of command they might have had was swept away with the immediate followup First Order invasion.

[@justafaniv1097]

@@balvarine8709 however, the knowledge and deployment of a planet-killers has a 30-years history at this point. The New Republic must have known that the plans for death stars were out there. Should the First Order have the technical readouts from the empire, it was always possible, however unlikely, that they might built a planet killer, and exploit it.

[@battlesheep2552]

@@balvarine8709 bullcrap, no way they couldn't anticipate the imperial wannabees building yet another Death Star

[@seekingabsolution1907]

I mean you'd expect it to be designed specifically to stop the sort of attack that happened in TFA where the destruction of 5 planets kills the entire government, you'd think prioritizing that would be in the minds of most new republic politicians. Like, there's now tech that let's you destroy planets and they just let that lie, no anti-death star proliferation agencies/ laws no death star tech nullifying technology no detection methods for giant planet killing laser beams, not even regulation of Kaibur crystals and other materials used to make them. Like WHAT?!?!

[@stephenjenkins7971]

It'd be one thing to be surprised if there was no such thing as a "planet-killer" in history. But after Alderaan, the NR had no excuse to not have contingencies in place should another planet-killer be created. Not even in how to combat it, but in how to organize its hierarchy should people kick the bucket suddenly.

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

The fact that the New Republic fell apart literally overnight after the loss of the Hosnian System, indicates that it has fundamental flaws within its structure.

[@TimKuat]

Or that Rian Johnson & JJ have absolutely no common sense when it comes to world building and writing star wars and the sequel trilogy has god awful horrible writing as a whole. The soul fact the New Republic has no military is beyond stupid. All that fighting and all those original trilogy sacrifices for absolutely nothing. Just to have the good guys be back where they were in the original trilogies to make the new trilogy like the originals. PATHETIC. Just saying, thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[@obijuanquenobi1911]

@@TimKuat The demilitarization thing is really dumb. That’s like if the US and USSR decided to dissolve their entire military after WW2. Legends New Republic would drop a huge Taco Bell shit on the First Order

[@Harrison11106]

EXACTLY. How worthless was the New Republic under Misney canon when NO ONE fought for it, not even so much as X amount of people wanted revenge against the First Order for the destruction of the Hosnian system? Really?

[@TimKuat]

@@obijuanquenobi1911 I know it doesn't make any sense at all. I don't how any government in Star Wars could not have a military or at least some force available to protect it. In the 1,000 years before the phantom menace you had the Galactic Republic demilitarized but planets were more or less in charge of their own defenses. It made more sense and they actually had a reason for demilitarization plus on top of that they had the Jedi order which acted as a protecting force to keep the peace. After return of the Jedi there was no Jedi Order. Luke had yet to even build it and it would take years before there even a sizeable amount of Jedi Knights. This brings me onto another thing, in the new canon the Empire was brought down so quickly after rotj and it also just doesn't make sense. The empire was extremely vast with many fleets, bases, troops, military equipment, space stations, etc. Realistically it would take so much longer than it did to defeat them. Then after defeating them the Republic immediately demilitarized. What would be there to keep the order even if just peaceably? And what about borders and protecting your planets? There had to be something or else any faction in the galaxy could take over the republic. People might mention the Rangers of the New Republic but even that counts as part of a military. I swear there was no common sense when it came to writing the sequels, they bagged way too heavy on being like the originals and then mucked it up by trying hard to subvert or expectations. By the time last film was being made they were so desperate to have the fans like it that the one chance they actually had a redemption, Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates, was canned because it was too much of a risk when ironically that would have been the one good thing about the trilogy. Thank you again for listening to my long ted talk :S

[@TimKuat]

@@Harrison11106 You know after the Force Awakens was released I honestly thought Ep. 8 would open up like Revenge of the Sith. No really I did. The rebellion spent all those years to build up a military to combat the powerful galactic empire and their capital was legit obliterated by the First Order within a matter of seconds? People had to have been livid and the New Republic citizens had to have wanted to protect what was left. They also had to have more than just 5 planets realistically so there had to be ships and leaders elsewhere right? Even if there wasn't any military there would at least be people who would come together after something like that happened.....right? Come to find out the entire Republic was destroyed, there was no one left. It was just the puny resistance and even they were on their last legs then they killed everyone important from the last trilogy including, almost, leia just to show her use the force to survive :S Oh and i just thought about it. Think about what i just mentioned. There had to be people to come together to fight right? Yes, the end of Rise of Skywalker legit showed it. Again the writing in this trilogy makes NO sense.

[@LeRectificateur]

I think that the quote from Leya "we don't have an executive" indicates that the New Republic works like the European Union of our world. There is no police force, thus the enforcement of the law is assured by each system independently. That would means Mon Mothma persuaded the heads of state of each system to act cohrently is matters such as defense and foreign policy, but they were not oblidge to do so. Therefore the uncharismatic chancellors after her were useless because they had no actual power. This interpretation of the quote leads to see the New Republic, not as a State, but as a Confederation of Systems.

[@bantakkor8039]

Agreed, I was confused that he couldn't imagine a confederation of states where the senat only agrees on rules, but does leave it open to every single member to either enforce or ignore them (hence no executive power)... in that case the "executive power" if one might call it that way, is gain or loss of reputation and potential benefits during negotiations (which are easier to achieve if you have a good reputation as someone who plays by the rules).

[@pjmetzen3483]

Hmm it also resembles the Republic in it's Golden age during the High Republic. Highly decentralized and no military to run amoke and take over.

[@michaelramon2411]

I think one of the best real-world examples to consider are the American Articles of Confederation - another extremely weak central government created by people who fear tyranny so much that they hobbled themselves in order to prevent it. Obviously, the Americans realized the system wasn't working and reformed it, but with things running okay in the galaxy, it's not that hard to see how the New Republic would lack the political will to do so.

[@travisdunlap4526]

Another example is the US before the formal constitution, where the states were under the "Articles of Confederacy". The federal government was very weak and practically beholden to state desires.

[@jacobvardy]

The International Court of Justice is another example. It has no army to enforce its rulings. But most states abide by them because of the long term benefits.

[@Beausabre]

If you’ve ever listened to Mike Duncan’s podcast “Revolutions” there is a term he uses to describe how a victorious movement seems to fall apart after they’ve won - he calls it the “Entropy of Victory”. With the threat of losing (and getting executed) gone, the various parties in rebellion find more dividing them than uniting them.

[@kjj26k]

"Victory has defeated you" -Bane, _Dark Knight Rises_

[@SamaritanPrime]

Upvoted for a fellow listener.

[@xenon8117]

They all agreed they needed the Empire gone because of many reasons (personal loss, loyalty to Republic ideals, new opportunity) but what comes next is countless ideas for replacement that few will agree on. The war was the easy part. “To be united by hatred is a fragile alliance at best.” -Kreia

[@MrPyroCrab]

You are heavily underestimating just how lenient the New Republic actually was to the Empire. It wasn't so much that they let the Empire continue existing (the old EU NR did that too), it was that they let the Empire keep the entire fucking Galactic Core. So not only do the Empire get to keep all of the major shipyards like Kuat and Corellia and control of most of the major hyperspace routes, they also have the fucking Deep Core, a region of unexplored space perfect for secret buildup of whatever military forces they want, which is what Palpatine actually did in the old EU . That's not a rump state, that's the god damned Eastern Roman Empire. Frankly I'm shocked the New Republic managed to last one decade let alone three.

[@thewitchking852]

lol didn't think of it that way. So basically if Mehmet II took Constantinople in 1453, then handed all of the balkans and anatolia back to the Romans and said "We cool, right?"

[@krisharmon5572]

@@thewitchking852 Actually...yeah.

[@JannisMarquardt-bc6jf]

You are wrong. The entire core worlds are under New Republic Control. The Empire was banned to the Outer Rim. Chandrila was a Core World just as Hosnian Prime.

[@redryan20000]

Did they explain any of that in the movie?

[@Himmyjewett]

@@redryan20000 outside material

[@andriesbotha3183]

I Agree with pretty much everything you said here. For me though, the biggest issue I had with both the New Republic and the First Order (At least as portrait in the movies), was the apparent code switching just for the sake of narrative convenience. The New Republic should have been the de facto Rulers, but in every instance they acted like and were portrait as underdog rebels, while the First Order was actually the rebels, but in everything they did they acted like and were portrait as almost the Empire continued. Maybe it's just me, but that made it all feel very disingenuous at best. The thing is, you don't really get a change in government without a rebellion, but all too often once those who were the rebels, become those in power, they don't really know what to do next, and so become the very thing they fought against... or worse... In the case of the New Republic it seems that they could not shake their rebel identity, and so could not rule, could not build and could not project any power in any meaningful way. Basically, once they were the ones in charge, they had no idea what they were doing.

[@Remitonov]

Darth Mickey took trying to recreate the magic of the Original Trilogy to its logcial extreme.

[@ezrawhitmer1840]

at least things in the star wars universe didn't go as they did after the revolution in France where there was just chaos, no power except for the mob, and many, many, many, people being killed, they would be a good example of rebels who just threw the idea of a government out the window and just went around rebeling. they are probably a example of people who became the same or worse than their predecessors just by how much they killed and destroyed.

[@HarpersInfiniteSystems]

portrayed

[@andriesbotha3183]

@@HarpersInfiniteSystems Yup, that's the one :)

[@aralornwolf3140]

The script writers wanted to recreate Episode IV in Episode VII, which required the New Republic to fall, or not exist. This is not logical... many of the Rebel Alliance leaders were competent politicians during the Clone Wars... The Emperor was killed while Luke, who was born at the end of the Clone Wars, was around 25 years old. This means, anyone who is at least 50 has seen some of the Republic, have been educated on why the Republic exists and how it functions while in _school._ They were the leaders of the Rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic... they knew, from history the Empire couldn't destroy (so they never bothered to), how to make a functioning government. You can't call a large group of planetary/system governments who were clearly competent (otherwise they wouldn't be in the position of leadership [some exceptions may apply]), so enamored by revolution to be incapable of running a multi-system government especially when many of them were educated on... exactly how to run multi-system governments based on the training from the _Old Republic._ What happened with the French Revolution was the same thing which happened in the Communist uprising in Russia... The Revolution was betrayed by those who used the Revolution to place themselves in positions of power that the old regime prevented them from having. They, then turned on their rivals to cement themselves as dictators. Fortunately, for some, Stalin was ruthless enough and had enough backing, that the Chaos of the French Revolution didn't happen in Russia. It wasn't disingenuous, it was "I'm too scared and/or lazy to think of what happens when the good guys are in power, so I'll try to do what worked in the OT" level of insulting.

[@dialaskisel5929]

The Pearl Harbor comparison is a really good one, though I would add a bit more to it to drive home the point of how silly the immediate collapse of the Republic was after the destruction of Hosnian Prime. It would be as if the Battleships Yamato and Musashi joined in during the attack on Pearl Harbor, but were destroyed (along with some of the carriers involved in the attack) by an immediate counterattack by the United States (paralleling the attack and destruction of Starkiller base after the destruction of Hosnian Prime). And then the United States surrenders immediately afterwards.

[@diegotapia2830]

Also democracies won both world wars, and also were willing to fight a third one agaisnt the eastern block

[@joeman9173]

@@diegotapia2830 the nations of the 1st world wars were all empires. most of those in WW2 were still empires as well.

[@diegotapia2830]

@@joeman9173 empires that got an elected prime minister/president and parlaments with elected representatives, if that isnt a democracy i dont know what a democracy? And if we follow your line of tought then the united states is also an empire

[@MouldMadeMind]

@@diegotapia2830 soviet democracy

[@diegotapia2830]

@@MouldMadeMind is called protected democracy

[@wingedhussar8552]

16:45 my interpretation was that the new republic was like the US under the articles of confederation. It was inefficient, couldn’t compel the states to do anything, couldn’t tax, couldn’t raise an army. It was a mess. Which is why the founders changed to the current constitution. It’s hard for me to believe that the new republic would stick by a similarly impotent system for so long.

[@stephenkenney8290]

Well think about that pre-centralization situation, apply an exponential increase in scale, and you begin to see why the New Republic had some serious issues.

[@wingedhussar8552]

@@stephenkenney8290 A galactic republic ruled the galaxy for generations. They already had a model for a centralized but democratic regime. They didn’t have to carbon copy the old government, but it’s not like they didn’t have options. If the founders could send delegates to Virginia to draft a new constitution after a lot of discussion, the new republic could do something similar

[@stephenkenney8290]

I think that is the point of the video, that the Empire changed things to such a degree that forming even a moderately centralized state would be an extreme challenge. The biggest problem for the situation is still the terrible worldbuilding of the new canon...I miss legends.

[@wingedhussar8552]

@@stephenkenney8290 I miss legends too. There were some cool warlords back in the day

[@stephenkenney8290]

@@wingedhussar8552 Pellaeon, Daala, even Zinsj and his cheesy moustache.

[@BeresVonSaladir]

What happened to the New Republic was that the writers desperately want a story about a small band of rebels fighting against a large, tyrannical regime, so they just shafted aside logic and established canon (and the New Republic along with it) just so they could repeat Episode 4.

[@elgusaniiiodeljuego6823]

But hey, it’s all explained in the comics, the books, the videogames, the CGI and live action shows, the cereal boxes, the McDonald toys, the iPhone apps and the hentai doujins.

[@orionslaver432]

"A multitude is strong while it holds together, but as soon as each of those who compose it begins to think of his own private danger, it becomes weak and contemptible." - Niccolo Machiavelli

[@15oClock]

The New Republic was designed to give the writers a reset button to back when it was Rebellion vs Empire, but they end up with unwanted implications. The Prequels show the decay of democracy, the original films the fight to overthrow an autocracy, but the Sequel Trilogy? By hitting the reset button, they show democracies *and* autocracies as inefficient systems to justify the plot line!

[@zacharygustafson8714]

So it basically became a cynical message on how no government works.

[@T2G-DJT]

General Secretary Skywalker and the United Socialist Planets of the Galaxy will be the plotline of the next trilogy.

[@originalbastav7346]

​@@T2G-DJT😂😂

[@openthinker6562]

I think what would be interesting would have been to have a split within the empire, resulting in the First Order and the Remnants of the “old” Empire. Perhaps (and this is my own rewrite), the eventual loss of Coruscant would be seen as a massive blow to Imperial morale, and a group of hardline Imperials would clash with more moderate moffs and admirals who would be more open to negotiations. The First Order could then be created when these extremists split away during the Battle of Jakku, when the Imperial Navy opened fire on each other before leaving. You could then have 3 factions locked in a new “Cold War”, which would explain the lack of open conflict. If one tried to attack, the other two could unite to take that one out. As a result, there is now a forming and young Republic filled with anti-Imperial sentiment, a moderate Empire working to reform itself, and an extremist First Order trying to maintain totalitarian control and power. It could also open more possibilities for world-building: - the Resistance could have been a secretly-sponsored faction by members of the former Rebellion, such as Leia Organa, hence their small numbers. - the moderate and reforming Empire could have begun to phase out discrimination and integrating non-human alien races into their ranks, causing clashes between them and other races calling them “traitors” due to their blind hatred of the old Empire. - Leia Organa could be the chancellor, but the imperials could leak out evidence proving she’s funding the resistance, resulting in an investigation and putting her out of the chancellorship.

[@bobsempletank5362]

I fucking love this idea. Still presents the resistance as the plucky underdogs Disney wants them to be while also presenting an enemy that is arguably much worse than what we’ve seen, and adding a greyer sense of morality when comparing them to the other empire. It’s great

[@TheWhiteDragon3]

In that case, I'd suggest reading the old Legends reading material and comics before they were declared non-canon by the sequels. There's a particular character called "Pellion" that was the de facto leader of an Imperial remnant that was actively reforming and even formed an alliance with the New Republic.

[@bobsempletank5362]

@@TheWhiteDragon3 yeah, I actually really enjoy characters like Paelleon. I hope he’s brought into canon.

[@robsomethin4415]

This is reminiscent of what happened in the old legends, called the Imperial Warlord era. Imperial governors, moffs, and admirals still had entire star systems that were self sufficent under their thumb, and entire fleets and in some cases of Moffs, armadas. They started fighting each other, and the rebellion. Some, requested amnesty of any crimes for their men and surrenders, others fought until the bitter end, but nothing was cut and dry. One group even hid news of the emperors death and acted like he was still in power. In the end, a few factions came out on top, some split and became members of the new republic, others independent systems, and a good sized group became the Imperial Remanent, and eventually the new Empire. The New Republic had harsh relations with the Empire, but war was... often avoided.

[@KingsandGenerals]

I'd say the New Republic doesn't work right now. We have basically seen only the early few years of the Republic in the canon when it was transforming from the Rebel Alliance.

[@moait-kaci1462]

oi you're real history stay away from fiction 🤣🤣🤣 love the work ❤

[@cynderfan2233]

It wouldn't work pretty much ever. You'd just end up with the same problems as the original Republic, rampant corruption, core centrism, predatory commerce and industry coalitions, piracy, criminality, etc. Not to mention the fact that you'd be dealing with Imperial revolts and sympathizers for centuries (But hey, Disney decided to bypass that particular issue by magically snapping the Imperial Fleet and all the aspects of Imperial government that were still intact out of existence.) The fact that it all but collapsed immediatly the moment its capital was destroyed is a pretty good indication that few if any had confidence in its ability to govern, or felt any particular loyalty to it. The Empire maintained control through sheer weight and force of arms. The New Republic can't do that, it has neither the warships nor the political capital.

[@nickter745thebold8]

@@cynderfan2233 What wrong with seeing a time skip 30 years after Endor? I think it made sense for the Empire Remnants to retreat into hiding in the Unknown Regions in order to amass their strength anew.

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

We see it collapse overnight after 30 years of trying to make itself work. If it couldn't fix its problems in 30 years, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work.

[@cynderfan2233]

@@nickter745thebold8 The death of the Emperor should not have shattered the Empire so quickly. There were more than enough Imperial officials in a position to make a grab for the reins of power. Even if the Empire had broken apart into massive civil war, many of the resulting Imperial remnant factions would still have enough power to crush the Rebel Alliance in open combat. 25 000 star destroyers, not to mention all the worlds and shipyards required to service them, don't just evaporate. It would take decades of constant combat for the New Republic to defeat them all, by which point it would have an enormously large and veteran military which the First Order wouldn't stand a chance against.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

All the way back in 2015/very early 2016, I remember criticizing the awful world building of The Force Awakens and the internet said I was just a hater who couldn't appreciate the genius of J.J. Abrams...I feel super justified at being right about the dumpster fire he, Rian Johnson, and Disney created

[@LB-py9ig]

Time adds perspective. Most people go with their emotions rather than measurable reality and facts. How easily we forget it used to be considered immoral by the mainstream media to even criticize Disney Star Wars. Not simply mean or entitled, but actively immoral, no hyperbole, I remember when bad TLJ audience scores were blamed on Russian bots and I refuse to let it be memory holed. People weren't looking at the facts, just their feelings. Thing is, in several years your emotions will disappear and people who either didn't care or were too young will only see the facts.

[@corvus2512]

Wait... what? Nobody called Abrams a genius in 2016... everyone knew it was a blatant retread of the OG trilogy lol. Also what worldbuilding are you even talking about in TFA? The problem with that movie is there is no worldbuilding at all, we are given no context on the galaxy. It’s the Last Jedi that completely ruins the setup done in TFA, if Last Jedi had dealt with the fallout of Hosnian Prime and had the resistance trying to link of with surviving New Republic fleets it could have saved the story, instead Last Jedi just says “NR doesn’t exist anymore, move on”. The only worldbuilding ‘problem’ in TFA is that the Resistance is unnecessary and should have just been a recon battalion of the New Republic but other than that there just is no worldbuilding in TFA

[@slin2903]

​@@corvus2512Most people 2015 were just "awesome new star wars finally" And that was that They were shit movies but at the time it was just pure excitement for new star wars movies

[@corvus2512]

@@slin2903 yeeeaahhh that’s not really true... maybe you don’t think I can remember 2015 but I can and the general consensus was “that was pretty fun, some interesting ideas, let’s see where it goes” and for the 2 years between the TFA and TLJ that was pretty much what people said, every single SW channel for 2 years was massively focused on speculation and theory videos, nobody was posting hate videos about TFA at the time. I’m not saying it’s a great movie and people fairly criticized it at the time for being a rehash of the OG and playing it safe, that’s a fair criticism and I agree with it, the resistance is a cheap rehash of the rebellion, the movie provides no insight into the wider galaxy, all fair and true knocks against it but if TLJ had been a good movie then we aren’t having this chat. The SW fandom had 2 years before TLJ and an entire other movie coming out in Rogue One to reflect on TFA. This retro toxicity and hate only started when episodes 8 and 9 came out and were garbage. I can sit down and rewatch TFA and enjoy it for the fun OG SW adventure it is, it’s not great but it certainly isn’t as woeful as what followed it, I can’t sit down and watch 8 and 9 because they are too awful with very little to redeem them.

[@alecsmith3448]

What really gets me about this is that the very decentralization which prevented the new Republic from Is from mounting a coherent defense should have pulled should have also made it so that the 1st order couldn't eliminate all resistance by destroying the capital

[@CortexNewsService]

Look at the Articles of Confederation in the early history of the U.S. It was about as stable and unified as the New Republic. It had the same limits and issues. It was only because of really impressive politicking and the star power of George Washington that we stayed united long enough to write our current constitution.

[@TheHacknor]

It also helped that there were major threats from other empires on your borders to motivate unity

[@CortexNewsService]

@@TheHacknor It did. But the attitude see in the US these days of "I do what I want, and I will tear this down to do it" is not new. They literally had the same attitude then. Some states were even considering going back to being colonies.

[@noahmeehan1327]

I wish this was really explored in the sequels. That would have made the stakes bigger, especially with the first order around, and provide the audience questions on the limits of central government and the states within.

[@TheBayzent]

@@TheHacknor Which ones? The ones that were burning down in flames in Revolutionary Wars in less than 10 years after the war ended, and were living through one if the worst and more destructive conflicts at home they would live through until 1914? Because 1795 to roughly 1821 were years Europe decided to off itself, only slowing down until restarting from 1830 to 1848...(and by that point the only threat to the US was the sparsely populated Canada)

[@karenwang313]

Loll you thought those years were bad? Let me tell you about 1914 and 1939 lol

[@laurencefraser]

I'm fairly sure the intent of Leia's claim about a lack of an executive was supposed to be that the legislative body as a whole was carrying out the roles of the uppermost portion of the executive branch, rather than delegating them to an individual or small group of officials. Horribly inefficient, and very poor at reacting quickly to emergencies unless thorough plans have been drawn up and approved ahead of time, (there's a reason it's not Normally fone by anything larger than a small city), but doable.

[@Knihti1]

Something similar was in Republic before Clone Wars, as theoritical Supreme Chancelor could use his/her power to respond different crisis, but for reasons (tradition, weakness in character, deliberately decision, etc...) they just allocated executive decision to senate vote and washed theyrs hand from matter. Palpatine especially did roleplay as "bounded by limitation" weak-chancelor to showcase how ill-suited weak executive branch is to crisis and manipulating people to want give him more executive powers.

[@SalinaMoonfall]

@@Knihti1 So in a sense their fear of a repeat of Palpatine lead to them going back to making executive decisions via senate vote...which when part of the voting body is on the side of or in the pocket of the crisis (The First Order) you're not going to get much done.

[@Bustermachine]

There's at least one country (I want to say sweden or switzerland? that has no single supreme exeuctive. Rather an executive council fills the roll with the leader being simply a spokesman. It would be the equivalent approximately of having no POTUS but still having a cabinet which assumes all of those responsibilities)

[@Bustermachine]

@@SalinaMoonfall It was a reasonable fear given what they all fought and died to overthrow.

[@Knihti1]

@@Bustermachine The fear is reasonable, but without clear executive body all important decisions and responds to different crisis are slow and harmingful in otherway. Executive powers of Chancelor was not problem in Republic, but that Chancelor was Sith Lord. So decision that New Republic has no clear executive body is good decision if Sith Lord taking the power is common problem.

[@MWBalls]

Legends new republic would have taken one look at the first order and said "oh look another tiny imperial remnant faction with a super weapon. Give our heroes one of our state of the art reaction fleets and they will take care of it in a long weekend."

[@Cowboyking92]

They're only gonna get off one shot cause that's how long it will take us to fully load the K-Wings.

[@Rembanspellsong]

@@Cowboyking92 they get off one shot? did someone let Admiral Ackbar or General Antilles have a day off or something?

[@251spartan]

@@Rembanspellsong it was their mandatory vacation time, you know how the senate is.

[@Strideo1]

The Disney Trilogy is so hopelessly inept I can't even entertain the notion of it being legitimate canon.

[@251spartan]

@@Strideo1 im just taking the parts that are somewhat good and discarding the rest

[@crusadr_4966]

Rebels often don't immediately make the best governors. Most of them are fighters and zealots for potentially (Not always!) a righteous cause, it's a much different ruling a nation than commanding a guerilla force.

[@openfly4u]

But didnt the rebels have government officials, like Mothma; Organa; Dodana; or literally any of the entire planets (some with already existing governments or people that know how to run nations)? Did the entire senate get killed after it was dissolved?

[@dawoifee]

@@openfly4u It depends on how the State the rebels overtrow was organised. When Austria-Hungary collapsed it was already federally organizsed for a good part and the successor states took over lokal administration, leadership, bureacrazy to run the new country. But if a State is highly centralized the successor states don't have any experience in Government, few economic, political, intellecutaly Elites etc. and it lacks local governing structures. This is the Issue with many post colonial States as the administration and infrastructure that existed was only there to exploit the ressources and people as efficient as possible, but not to establish local elites, developed economy etc. So the Galactic Empire collapsing should actually give the New Republic lots of skilled Administrators and Elites as plenty of the Planets were very well developed, had its cultural and economic centres etc. and the Empire was short lived so and it depended on local support at least until the first death star was finished and the Emperor finally dissolved the Senat for good.

[@sillypuppy5940]

I remember seeing that scene of the people on those planets looking scared at their impending doom and wondering who they were and how those beam things got there so fast.

[@eldrago19]

Hmm, with relation to the 'war criminals' thing, I think that it is likely the Republic knew that almost all officers would surrender and was trying to pressure the holdouts into signing on. Leaving a few small groups outside of the pale in this context would be a necessary trade-off. Additionally, the Concordance was likely written with a domestic audience in mind so persuading them that they were being tough on the Empire was likely necessary especially given that it was a conditional surrender.

[@danamoore1788]

I have a bit of a problem with the war criminals thing as well. Okay you can have these systems over here but you are war criminals. These were not clones nor droids. There are people there you just declared may not go home again. And be honest the Rebel Alliance in many cases were in fact terrorists. So you have troops fighting what is to them a just fight. They have lost and may not return home. Where did you think they were going to go?

[@Croz89]

I was under the impression that you can't just label people war criminals, like other criminals you have to make a formal accusation and make an arrest, have them stand trial and be convicted. Not signing a peace treaty isn't going to make anyone a war criminal automatically.

[@_Muzolf]

@@Croz89 That means jack shit even in the real world. Heck, the Nuremberg trials themselves were considered pretty much cangoroo court show trials by enryone politically savvy, even by the people who wanted them. War crimes trials are for show, if you are accused, the sentence is probably already decided for you, and you can bet your ass that nobody will put the victors on trial, even if they did the exact same thing as you.

[@eldrago19]

@@Croz89 That is true(ish) in our world but the Star Wars galaxy (as far as I know) lacks established mechanismms for identifying or convicting war criminals so The New Republic can make it up on the spot.

[@kx4998]

@@_Muzolf what you say is mostly true but I am pretty sure in that same trial the leader of the U-boats did make a successful defence since they manage to prove that the USA own subs have the same order to sink any ships helping drowning sailors, convicting him of this crime means they would have to convict they own captains for doing the same thing.

[@BulletRain100]

What gets me about the New Republic is that how it formed its government makes no sense considering how the Rebellion started. The Rebellion wasn't started by quirky people on the margins of society as the new Star Wars wants to believe, it was started by members of the political aristocracy who detested how a political upstart from the middle of nowhere has seized power and now held himself above the legislative body that should have supreme authority. The only reason the Rebellion could actually fight is because those politicians either ruled or had sway over entire systems and used covert funding to create and maintain the Rebellion. Many of these politicians continued to hold office in the Galactic Senate while funding and supporting the Rebellion. The New Republic in Legends makes sense because the Galactic Senate was gone for only 9 years, and many of the politicians and bureaucrats would assume their old jobs. The only new addition was a head council formed of the political leaders of the Rebellion. The Rebellion gained members by having people dream of regaining the greatness and justness that the Old Republic seemed to have. It makes sense that democratic political system that has survived for 25 thousand years can overcome a decade hiatus and two more decades of excessive rule from a chancellor.

[@misterragnar2521]

A big issue with that is that there was still a good amount of imperial loyalists from the core worlds that would've also come into play.

[@DarkOfTheMist]

Disney didn't care about making sense, they only cared about money. They didn't care about the source material or the extra context, they just wanted a soft reboot of the original films, logic be damned

[@bozkurt7612]

Wouldn't the existing aristocracy be in conflict with the lower class that make up the rebellion?

[@darksly434]

@@bozkurt7612 not really since both wanted the republic back they would compromised and not engage in another conflict nobody wanted

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@bozkurt7612 , Yes and no. The Queen of Naboo was elected. While still being a member of the political elite, she still required the support of the common person in order to remain Queen. Many other systems had similar ideals... yes, there are going to be families with strong political ties... while there are going to be new comers to politics who enter politics to change things (or for personal power) they disagree with. Each planet has its own senator... many of whom will be elected via general election for the planet/system they are from. Thus, the political elite require the common person in order to _be_ politicians. Some species aren't egalitarian and do practice authoritarian governments and don't have elections, but they will be a minority. The Emperor effectively overturned generations of democratic principles (however they were applied or not) for political appointees who make the laws and... the constitution that all laws must abide by... without the common person having any say in how those laws are applied, let alone what the laws _are._ In Legends, the common person was screwed over by the Empire more often than the aristocrats/political/financial elite... so they would support the people who want to return to a time when citizens actually had the right to air grievances with the government, in the government's own halls, in order to change the laws so _all_ people benefit. Instead of a few who consolidated power for themselves (imperial governors)...

[@Emanon...]

To be fair, nothing in the new SW movies really works storywise

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

The Japanese Imperial court did the same in early Japan. It's a thing that happens sometimes.

[@theangryMD]

yup

[@TheKyrix82]

I love Star Wars, but it's a mess. The literature makes it better, but still...

[@Emanon...]

@@TheKyrix82 Yes, in general, but it wasn't like there wasn't some stinkers too in the "Legends" universe. Though not nearly in the same extent as the last three SW movies. Sheesh.

[@RorikH]

@@Emanon... It's an odds game, if you make 42,375 books/comics/video games, then the fans can just pick the ones they like and ignore the ones they don't.

[@slydevil4759]

"As if, trough science or magic, we were somehow put in charge of its development" Expecting Disney to hire a competent writer for star wars probably seems like magic at this point.

[@keiththorpe9571]

One thing to remember about the immediate aftermath of the war: A surrender is only as binding as the victorious party can enforce that surrender. If the New Republic found itself in a military situation wherein they felt it best to accept a conditional surrender, rather than to risk pushing the remnants of the Imperial military to an unconditional surrender, then they begin the peace at a distinct disadvantage. Many former high ranking officers, admirals, moffs, etc., would recognize that the New Republic was weak and given a bit of breathing room, the Empire could consolidate. At a later date, they could once again begin their reconquest.

[@elijahdoesstuff4600]

I can’t wait for “The New Republic reimagined”.

[@ezrawhitmer1840]

me too, the first order reimagined was so good it actually gave me chills. My wish is that disney would scrap the last three movies and just make a better version of them but with the reimagined versions of the First Order, and the upcoming New Republic.

[@timothyho5786]

Yes.!

[@mrdictator7030]

so you just basically wanna hear Legends

[@LockNesTom]

Personally, I have always found the old EU(Legacy) Post-Endor events far more plausible than the new stuff. It had the classic governmental issues, political disagreements, disputes, etc and was still facing an enemy. A bunch of shattered old guard Empire Loyalists who fought each other just as much as the New Republic. It always seemed much more realistic to me.

[@razorflossrazor2937]

@@Fresssshhh Seriously if they had even an ounce of respect for legends they would have had stories for years. One series would be a political thriller focusing on how you build a government from this rag tag miss of the rebellion. Another could be a epic war story that focuses on the after Years and civil war between the empire. It writes it's damn self and it's sad that we didn't get it.

[@wafflepoet5437]

The Expanded Universe was absolutely brilliant. I read a few books a week at this point in my life, most of them academic or just non-fiction, but the EU is the reason why I fell in love with reading. I’ve tried a couple books from the “new” canon and I don’t know if it’s because I’ve outgrown the universe, I resent the change or, most likely, and as Templin points out, none of this shit makes any sense. I feel like the new canon was designed whole-cloth and by committee in a single setting. The EU was created across decades, informed by writers who loved the setting and had a chance to create new things. The EU was completely _organic_ by necessity. The Star Wars galaxy was completely without boundaries or content and allowed so many different writers and designers to define everything beyond the infinitesimal content the original trilogy represented. Christ, this reminds me of the d6 SWRPG West End Games put out. I never even had a chance to play roleplaying games but I bought almost every supplement WEG put out because holy _shit_ did they bring Star Wars to life! Sorry I’ve been rambling. You’re absolutely right and I absolutely agree.

[@kuribayashi84]

@@wafflepoet5437 I feel kinda bad for the People writing the nu-Canon Novels & Tie-in material. I mean, their job is basically to provide explanations for the shit that happens in the new Movies to the point that defenders of these flicks point to them because they "explain everything". I haven't read the thing myself, but I heard the novelisation of TROS is mostly concerned with filling plotholes and tell the reader stuff the movie didn't bother telling. Anyway, concerning the EU, it took a while for it to *really* come together, but once it did, it *thrived*. Basically everything from "Vector Prime" onwards is one large, well developed, interconnected story with countless recurring characters any so many different worlds, cultrures and fractions, with thousands of years of history behind all of it. Even during the 90s, when SW in Novel-Form mostly consisted of Trilogies and Stand-alone Novels that always ended with some sort of status quo, there was good continunity and progress. And youre right about the WEG-material. I've only read the Dark Empire-sourcebook but that was awesome. It did the impossible: Making the Return of the Emperor look like a plausible, well developed idea. Even the best written new Novels (and to be fair, there are a few that are, on their own terms, *good*) don't even come close. Even the best written stories are so... inconsequential. Somewhat flat, even. The Universe feels weirdly empty and constrained. Also, have you noticed that, except Timothy Zahn, no Author with EU-Experience has written a SW-Novel since Summer 2017. New People, wherever I look. Anyway, I stop now. I tend to get carried away when I talk about this topic. Know a thing of two about rambling myself...

[@mitchellalexander9162]

@@kuribayashi84 If your Stand alone Story be it movie, book or otherwise needs expansion material to properly tell its story then it has Failed as a stand alone Story.

[@ChicagoMel23]

Me too and Disney ruined it

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

The New Republic senate itself was probably fairly toothless, with a heavy push for decentralization in general, because the New Republic was basically reliant on its power coming from planets recognizing its authority instead of force, which is probably fine for the Core worlds, but it would be hard to enact any decisions outside the Core without military intervention, as the New Republic would be loathe to act. The obvious problem with this is that it clearly leads more to feudalism than democracy, leading to corporations and powerful sectors effectively controlling their own slices of the galaxy, which in turn made the new government too weak to respond to any major threat. But the thing is, the First Order *shouldn't* have been such a major threat: the idea that Palpatine would build an entire industrial heartland in secret, just in case he died and needed to reconquer the galaxy, was so beyond reason that no one could anticipate it, and the need for Force users to safely navigate the Unknown Regions made recon almost impossible. The New Republic *did* try monitoring the old Death Star production bases, but there was no activity there, so there was no reason to believe the First Order could build a super weapon. It's less about how the New Republic failed, and more about how unprecedentedly dangerous Palpatine himself was.

[@Bustermachine]

From a Doylist perspective Palpatine was literally pulling shit out of his ass. So imagine how all the poor Watson's in the narrative felt.

[@randomjake1488]

I think that’s a good in universe lore reason, but I think in reality, brining back Sidious was a plot device to make the story make more sense. And even then, having the industrial power like the first order did wasn’t sensical. I wish instead of a star killer base, or a palpatine, there was a new type of experimental technology, like dark matter energy, that was discovered by the first order that gave them a significant military advantage. This idea was in the first drafts for the movie but they instead made a 3rd Death Star and made the republic ridiculously weak.

[@theliato3809]

New republic doesnt own the core worlds

[@andrewgreeb916]

The thing is the first order pulled most of it's stuff out of nowhere, you can't turn a planet into a sun sucking superweapon without anyone getting suspicious. Snokes capital ship is absurdly large and would likely require a specialized shipyard to construct, and would likely take a long time. There's no way they could amass a huge standing army by simply abducting and indoctrinating people without being noticed and likely facing major flack from local enforcement. Also where do they get the resources for all their projects? Clearly starkiller base and snokes command ship cost massive amounts of resources to make and operate, and yet they somehow exist. When I heard first order I thought initially it was a few ISDs and some smaller imperial vessels trying to become a galactic power, not a somehow secret industrial powerhouse.

[@Bustermachine]

@@randomjake1488 I mean, Doylist reason you're absolutely right. Part of the problem is that Abrams is a terrible director/writer (though a phenominal producer by all accounts) and Johnson is a solid director and writer (but not a good fit for a main star wars movie). Like, Abrams has a proven track record. It's a record that warns that he cannot put together a plot and developments that span a single movie much less three. Into that mix you drop Ryan Johnson, a guy who can do those things, but also has a very specific vision that wasn't going to jive with Abrams dream of retreading the original trilogy. Then we get Abrams back for the last movie, where he has to figure out that payoffs for things he never actually had any payoffs planned for (seriously, we know his record, he didn't have some brilliant plan waiting in the wings that Johnson ruined, Abram's mystery boxes are always empty and the plan was for them to be filled in by someone else or forgotten) I would have rather had Johnson do one of the side movies where he could have more creative freedom to make something interesting. Had Abrams as the main producers for the trilogy, and literally anyone else as the actual director.

[@awesometown1]

I personally really like the idea of a New Republic that really struggled to gets its act together, and more importantly, was plagued by all sorts of issues, including things like resurgent separatism and a large portion of the population and political class being nostalgic for the Empire.

[@dawoifee]

This would be stuff for a great movie or series ;)

[@theemeraldenderman3007]

It would have been nice to see that in the movies first rather than after the fact though.

[@marimcgee8379]

I think The New Republic forgot was the making and using super weapons like the Death Star and other special projects. The second thing was the interment of Imperal prisoners, if any wanted to seek asylum knowing the troubles they caused to the people of the galaxy.

[@kek105]

it's a shame Grand Admiral Thrawn died, he was an absolute gigachad and he would have made a better villain than the first order

[@TheWhiteDragon3]

Dead? He's not dead; The Mandalorian Season 2 has verified that he's still alive and still out there. The question of the day is whether he's going to come back before or after the First Order fiasco, and I think that since the First Order's prominence was so short (only 2-5 years), I think the creative team will set up Grand Admiral Thrawn to be the next Big Baddie.

[@rdxredrock]

Truth. In the Expanded Universe Books, he kept war going for two more years after Endor and almost won.

[@karlgrimm3027]

After the American Revolution many people wanted a very weak government believing the British were too centralized. This caused a lot of problems, as the Continental Congress was too week to govern and eventually had to be replaced with our current constitution.

[@imgvillasrc1608]

This, learning more about the New Republic is unironically how the Democratic-Republican party wanted the US to be except in space.

[@christianbetz2704]

“So they [republics] are slower to take up arms, and a prince can gain them with greater ease and can secure himself against them. But in republics there is a greater life, greater hatred, more desire for revenge; the memory of their ancient liberty does not and cannot let them rest,” - Machiavelli in the Prince

[@funkydanieluk]

It's kinda loveable how you are thinking about this way way more than JJ or Disney did.

[@athingwhichexists]

democracies rarely die to external threats, they usually fight long and hard to survive, only falling to external threats when the odds are truly against them in every way, even then they still push on, Poland comes to mind. Instead, most often when a democracy dies, it's because of its own internal side, they don't give up fighting, they start fighting themselves. This was a really well done video, thanks Templen

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

Pre-WW2 Poland was only a democracy on paper, in practice they were a dictatorship.

[@nemipune3405]

Completely agree, I'm so glad to see someone well versed (at least more than me) in military history and general knowledge that doesn't shit on democracies/republics all the time, really refreshing

[@CucumberSadness]

True. The New Republic and First Order was just so... weird and nonsensical.

[@chimeraelite]

Tbh that whole sequels were too

[@nickter745thebold8]

But I liked them…

[@tankofreality4550]

@@nickter745thebold8 do you mean legends or cannot new republic?

[@nickter745thebold8]

@@tankofreality4550 Canon. Both the New Republic and the First Order had potential. They were just used the wrong way.

[@neofulcrum5013]

@@nickter745thebold8 you’re free to hold onto that opinion mate

[@haroldstrickland6126]

I think you raise a lot of solid points, but the real problem here is unavoidable with Star Wars: it's that the fans put more thought into it than the creators. Probably true of most fandoms. The First Order DOESN'T make any goddamn sense. Of course it doesn't, and we can scratch our heads about it from a canonical perspective, but the writing of it was, as a a friend of mine used to say when he was in the army, "ate up with a dumb ass." You might as well try to analyze why they drove a car to space in the last Fast and Furious joint. We can try to craft "No Prize" explanations like Marvel fans used to, but at the end of the day, the writing is, in clinical terms, stupid as fuck. I think there are ways it could have been written to reduce the stupid as fuckness, but every fan out there has their own opinions on "fixing" broken writing. And nobody wants to see Star Peace. Even when we're watching Star Trek, we want there to be exciting conflicts and challenges. With Star Wars, there is a sort of thematic obstacle that cannot be surmounted while still remaining "Star Wars." With that said, the concept of a galactic republic is the most ambitious idea of government ever imagined. It's more fanciful than Trek's United Federation of Planets, which needs no money and spends the bulk of its time enthusiastically sharing knowledge with sentient black holes named Randy. The Republic is somehow supposed to be a representative democracy for thousands of worlds that do not agree on how to shake hands, much less a shared, unifying ideology. It is a nation state with no national identity, and no way (or desire) to impose one. It's always been riddled with conflict and vulnerable to external aggression. The New Republic may not have learned any lessons of the past, but when those lessons all lead to failure, perhaps this is understandable. I guess I'm basically saying, how could the New Republic have possibly succeeded as a galactic government when every prior iteration also failed? Maybe unification is a pipe dream of fantasy and fiction. It makes us feel good when the "cool" races like Elves and Dwarves unite with the humans and punch the orc hordes in the dick. But aside from not being devoured by the Spider Lords, what virtue is there to a unified ruling power after the Dragon Empire is defeated? Peace? Well, do we really need unification for peace? We have peace with former enemies like Germany and Japan and Vietnam without rubbing each other's giblets in a unified government. And no, the United Nations does NOT count. Is there any realistic way to unite powers across such impossibly vast distances into a single form of government? I mean, we're not just talking lakes and oceans. We're talking relativistic distances linked only by hyperspace travel. Maybe that's just a side effect of freedom. I dunno.

[@alexturlais8558]

I kind of agree. The Republic is like trying to have a global government in the middle ages. Travel times are just too great.

[@rustyshackleford1508]

Congrats on discovering the real world case against globalism via space fantasy movies.

[@alexturlais8558]

@@rustyshackleford1508 except in the real world it would be great because we don't have light-years between countries.

[@stephenjenkins7971]

The Republic did succeed both in Canon and Legends though; it succeeded for a far longer period of time than most modern nation-states. Whether it makes sense or not is a different question, but it did. As for the "how", it obviously functioned similar to the UN but has trusted intermediaries in magic space wizards that keep the peace; they are the key factor that allowed such a massive organization to function at all, tbh.

[@rustyshackleford1508]

@@alexturlais8558 So, then, tell me about all the countries you've been to. And about how you understand their cultures well enough to make decisions for them. And about how they would perceive a foreigner making decisions for them.

[@ComradeCorvus]

The video on your re-write of the first order was amazing, so I cant wait to see what you can do with the new republic!

[@TemplinInstitute]

there's no way to know.

[@ComradeCorvus]

@@TemplinInstitute I should have finished the video before making that comment... Well at least my question was answered :P

[@corngreaterthanwheat]

This makes me imagine Luke actually left to write the Space Federalist Papers about why they needed a stronger executive branch.

[@dionisioperricciruis3118]

The Idea of a mid-Rim capital is great. Remember me of the creation of Brasília, being the substitute of Rio de Janeiro's Brazilian capital since the imperial time. A lot of strugle, criticism and oposition, but they made It. Also, an interestellar capital from scratch would be a nice analogy to Asimov's Foundation, where the center of Power leaves Trantor (pretty much an ecumenopoly like coruscant) in detriment to Terminus (a pretty shit place that takes a capital form in the decades after).

[@Arosk.]

At the rate the Templin Institute is talking about how bad the New Republic is, it is likely the Institute caused the collapse of the new Republic from the shadows in the Templin-verse.

[@gonkdroid4603]

you know too much. GET HIM BOYS

[@youroverlord6937]

Rattle him boys!

[@scifantasy4390]

Templin Institute was actually pretty mild, all things considered. NR was a complete fiasco that should've never existed. Whoever demilitarizes 90% of their forces after simply letting the enemy keep their own navy, which by the way is superior and is only on temporary retreat because of the momentum, and then pray they just leave them be. It's beyond moronic to think any of the rebel leaders and previous heroes wouldn't see the obvious flaws. There was nothing left to enforce the Imperial remnants would be obligated to follow the agreement at all. NR leadership might as well shoot themselves in the head when the remnants eventually unify and come back to claim what was once theirs.

[@BRAVOACTUAL]

Why it doesn't work in the words of JJ Abrams himself (paraphrasing a bit): *"Would have been better with a start to finish plot pre planned..."*

[@rhystaylor6939]

I.e. it would have been better to do something no one had forced JJ to do in the entirety of his career.

[@Kevc00]

Something I have always wondered about the treaty with the empire. It says that they couldn't recruit stormtroopers, but nothing about army troopers? I know that the stormtroopers had mostly replaced the army troopers by the end of the civil war, but they still existed. So could the remnant still have recruited soldiers into the imperial army?

[@Grubnar]

"The Generals and Admirals who had fought in the Galactic Civil War were still around" Maybe those were the people Lando talked to and got to bring help at the end? So even though the various current governments were "weak" and lacked the will and co-operation to stand up to The First Order, the old veterans DID, and were willing to lead the people who were fed up with the incompetence of the governments.

[@MoonatikYT]

Worth mentioning about the Free French, after the surrender to Germany the *majority* of French soldiers did not go to the resistance but instead took their chances with the rump Vichy regime, and the overall impact of the French resistance (especially the DeGaulle government-in-exile) is massively overblown in pop history. Seeing as it was brought up in this video I felt it needed clarifying.

[@nihilisticastarte1167]

The majority of french soldiers were busy being in captivity but k …

[@openfly4u]

@@nihilisticastarte1167 eh, when given the choice of "be in military for the conquerors and do the job you trained for, or rot away in a prison camp (possibly till death)". I think many people (then or now) would cave and work for the invaders. Self presevation instinct and all... But thats my opinion

[@magimon91834]

On your point about a feat of centralization, we see a perfect mirror of that in US history as after the revolution the forst government the colonists made was the articles of confederation. An incredibly decentralized and weak state that couldn't even collect taxes, this state was made because everyone was so burn on the strong central authority of the British monarchy, that they made something that ultimately didn't work either and had to be thrown out

[@wilberdebeer4696]

I'd say the legends or the Original New Republic handled things far better( except for the last years witg the Vong) but overall a much better system.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

That's because in Legends, the New Republic actually recognized the Imperial remnant as a threat and wasn't so stupid to let the remnant gather their strength.

[@TheTrueAdept]

@@vetarlittorf1807 nope, the New Republic was going the same way as Disney's New Republic, the biggest difference was, in essence, there was a threat early on that gave the New Republic their rears on a silver platter, forcing some level of reform. There are other aspects too like Leia not getting politically wrecked and leading the reform movement early on, the various military leaders of the Rebellion not getting sidelined, but the biggest difference was _no one_ was able to shake up the status quo (so to speak) enough that everyone would agree on reform being needed. Basically, you've got a significant portion of the power base of the New Republic literally wanting to go back to the Old Republic wholesale with all that entails and nothing able to silence these idiots.

[@argentaegis]

More people died under TNR than under the Galactic Empire. Considering how long each lasted, it's probably a factor to consider.

[@silentecho92able]

By this point in the Starwars galexy i would believe Many planetary Systems would break off from the Republic as galactic government has a tendency too collapse on its head either run by incompetent fools, or Authoritarian Emperors.

[@1Korlash]

Got a source for that claim? Because last I checked, the New Republic wasn't into carrying out "strategic extinctions", as the Imperial Handbook calls them.

[@arx3516]

What you said about the fusion of executive and legislative is literally what happened in Italy with Berlusconi, winning the absolute majority in the elections (something rare in the italian political system)he controlled both parliament and government, and started passing laws to benefit himself and to depenalize crimes he was accused of.

[@brianmulholland2467]

I think one of the great crimes of the 7-8-9 trilogy was the way it undid and shat upon the 4-5-6 trilogy. Every story beat belittles the accomplishments and significance of 4-5-6 and it's heroes. We never actually see the New Republic. The triumph they achieved was dismantled quickly and entirely offscreen. Han's redemption arc of going from scoundrel to hero was undone offscreen and he was back to being an indebted scoundrel bouncing around the galaxy. Luke's journey wasn't reversed, but it was certainly demolished. The Empire was defeated...but no, in one paragraph of text it's back and looks...almost pixel for pixel identical. They should have abandoned the trilogy structure. Instead, have a slow, long term build of threats as we live and see the glory of the new Republic Leia, Mon Mothma, Luke, Han, Lando, and Chewie built. Glorify the original characters as being important builders of this new great society. But they're old now and new heroes are needed and the rise of new threats should be documented slowly over many movies...like Thanos. Each movie has it's own, smaller scope success for the protagonists of that movie. The legacy characters have advisory roles. Cameos. But give us some time to enjoy what was built. And dammit, don't make the new Empire beat for beat identical to the old! But neither should one piss on the previous trilogies like 8 did. Disney should do a 'soft reboot' by just choosing to 'ignore' the 7-8-9 trilogy. Put Favreau or Filoni into a Feige/Gunn like role to carve out a long term plan, and start over. And dammit, adapt the Thrawn trilogy into this plan somewhere/somehow. And don't be afraid to recast Leia. We will understand. IMHO, it's better than CGing her up.

[@jedi-commanderx9337]

100 facts i agree

[@thoughtfulnerd]

I don't practice international law but tl;dr I think the term "war criminal" must mean something different in the SW universe than how it is used on Earth. A war criminal is someone convicted at the International Criminal Court of a specific (but lengthy) list of crimes against humanity during the course of armed conflict. One of the important parts of the definition is that the acts have to be part of a plan or coordinated effort, so random acts of soldiers or even non-state combatants may be crimes, but they aren't *war crimes* unless it was part of a coordinated effort (and even if they were just following orders). The ICC was largely created to pursue these claims and the list of various crimes is found in the treaty that establishes the Court (the Rome Statute). Just like any other kind of criminal, you can't just *declare* someone to be one -- you have to try them, using evidence, before a tribunal and the tribunal has to find them guilty.

[@jerryhu9005]

I think the New Republic should've pushed for a war crimes clause. Insist that certain high ranking personnel (ISB officials, military commanders of "pacification" forces, heck even some of Palpatine's pet Sith cultists) be tried for war crimes. Publicly air out the dirty laundry of the Empire to build legitimacy for the new government. Hell, they might have even gotten away with trying _in absentia_ the ones who refuse to come. The tide of public opinion was firmly on their side, there was no better opportunity.

[@ImperatorPenguin]

The Plot must flow... that is literally the whole reason the Sequel Trilogy works the way it does. Rey becomes more powerful than any other Force user in the franchise, just because? The Plot must flow. Poe is punished for actually trying to do something to help the Resistance and gets court-martialed for it, just because? The Plot must flow. Finn becoming glorified comic relief as the film progresses, just because? The Plot must flow. The First Order having the resources and ability to conquer an entire galaxy in WEEKS? The Plot must flow. And obviously... this plot was one of those rivers heavily polluted with litter and mutated fish.

[@thijsjong]

Sometimes thats just it. The plot s₩cks and you can try to explain it because you want it to make sence. But it just does not. It is like trying to come up with reasons is part of a grieving proces if what could have been. You mentioned 2 of my biggest gripes The FO huge economy going unnoticed for 3 decades. How could it have functioned without attachments. Rey being a mary sue with a very flimsy backstory. She is practically a Deux Ex Machina. Just lazy writing.

[@mook-landstrider1908]

The plot must flow

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

If only the sequels were good sadly not.

[@sambone2809]

"The plot must flow..." - Brian Herbert.

[@alexturlais8558]

Who says she's more powerful than anyone else?

[@carsoncasmirri3874]

The New Republic barely worked in Legends. Of course it wouldn’t work in Canon when you have the kind of writing that made the sequels so ungodly terrible.

[@TheGoodOne1998]

The Legends New Republic did survive Thrawn, the Dark Empire and only collapsed after the Yuuzhan Vong took Coruscant.

[@ronin3381]

Perhaps you should watch the video before you comment. The Templin Institute is actually praising the work of the writers here.

[@jaffarebellion292]

@@TheGoodOne1998 Aside from the infighting, the actual New Republic we know and love did pretty well for themselves. Granted, I'm still working through Vision of the Future, so that may change.

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

@@ronin3381 They shouldn't. It's bad writing, and any good world building is done around the skeleton of broken and bad ideas.

[@alejandroelluxray5298]

Legends NR was a success as a goverment for many years, even despiste their flaws and it only fell for a race that bring the entire galaxy to chaos (Yuzzhan Vong) and even then, the remnants of the NR, while not alone, defeat them

[@TheSteve285]

The post war situation from the galactic civil war parallels really well with the historical post ww1 situation leading to ww2. If they could have drawn more inspiration from that history I think they would have made a better backdrop for the sequels, it is a pity.

[@zachlyssy2680]

I've got to say, it's nice to hear someone defend democracy for once and not just declare it dumb. Thank you.

[@connorharnage6697]

Oh it can work. It's worked for a long time. But people wouldn't be people if they didn't know how to ruin good things

[@alexiel4406]

It’s very interesting how many people who benefit from democracy don’t understand how great it is

[@LustyLichKing]

Why the hell is some alien that can't even breath the same air as me getting to vote on who represents us regarding air quality regulation in the workplace? Democracy might work in groups with at least some commonalities at a genetic level, but if it's still one person, one vote, then what do you do when one alien species reproduces by the thousands per birth very frequently? They would end up dominating every single issue on the debate floor from sheer numbers mob rule style. What about hivemind species like the Gand that could form their own unbeatable voting bloc with no internal disagreements or discourse? If it's not going to be democracy in the form of one person, one vote, who decides what the arbitrary thresholds are for voting rights? Is there going to be a 3/5ths compromise on Twi'lek slaves too?

[@____Carnage____]

@@alexiel4406 and the irony when they argue that communism is better, especially to people who lived under communism

[@Man_Aslume]

​@@____Carnage____ People believe that? I just dank memers calling the USSR great in memes

[@lintrichards6007]

>implying that the Disney movies are actually canon rather than a pruned Legends timeline

[@ViccVegaa023]

Techinally its Legends that probably isn't canon now. Like with the EU. Unless they changed the rules again. Even that quote of Leia is from a book that probably wasn't ever canon. Frankly we don't know a darned thing about how the New Republic's Government works or is even structured in canon. The sequel movies tell us nothing about any of that. Star Wars as a franchise is particularly unconcerned about how anything works and even more unconcerned with having its prime storytelling device (the movies) explain anything. Best you can hope for is some lore in the Cartoons. The books were the exception and we all knew the books were never going to be canon when the sequels were announced.

[@CyberKid-1995]

That's right..

[@masc6287]

@@ViccVegaa023 Disney should split the timelines of Starwars into the Lucas, Disney and legend cannon and have each contain their own little universe while explaining its existence through the "world between worlds". That way they can have fans decide which universe they like most and Lucas film can tell different stories based on pre-made materials. Plus it would restore goodwill with fans an increase their merchandising and potential expansion into more books, shows and video games. The Gundam series has done this and it works really well for the series so we know it could be a viable model to use if done properly with respect.

[@kabob0077]

@@masc6287 They really should have just done that to begin with, then we wouldn't have a franchise wide Schism...

[@bielpr2009]

Honestly, nothing about the worldbuilding Disney made for the sequels works. And I would say that's the worst part about the new canon. If the movies were bad, you could always make good stories set on the same universe, but the sequels butcher the lore so badly that most novels, comics and games now are made to patch up the movies, and make the world seem at least somewhat believable. The Star Wars Galaxy post The Rise of Skywalker is so empty, and the content we have is so nonsensical, it kills any interest I might have had on Star Wars altogether.

[@madambutterfly1997]

I blame Mon mothma and her military disarmament Act. She effectively crippled the new Republic out of childish paranoia what a Grand Army might do in the future. And then expected extremely impoverished member world of the new Republic to build up their own planetary defenses knowing full well that the new Republic was working on less than what its predecessors had in terms of resources

[@pacificfederationpeacekeep999]

Damn i really hate her... She solely is responsible for this Why would ANYONE WITH ENOUGH LOGIC NOT TO HAVE AN ARMY

[@theomnissiah-9120]

@@pacificfederationpeacekeep999 it very simple really If you don’t have a military you get someone else’s for free

[@pacificfederationpeacekeep999]

@@theomnissiah-9120 Mercenaries... Predictable... But still she didn't want ---ANY---- army. So its her fault

[@killgriffinnow]

So according to Disney, a woman leader was the reason why the New Republic failed so hard. Sounds suspiciously sexist honestly, I’m surprised more people aren’t angry with Disney over this blatantly poor move.

[@madambutterfly1997]

@@pacificfederationpeacekeep999 don't forget about the part where I mention the impoverished member worlds were expected to raise their own planetary defenses despite having zero resources and money to do so.

[@nickymorrin1194]

Love the look of the artwork for the next video, excited to see how you'd fix the New Republic, it was always upsetting to me in the movies that the Republic didn't put up more of a fight. :(

[@calderhall1794]

Perhaps without any central authority, or binding purpose once the war was over the New Republic disintegrated into a coalition of members worlds and once the war started most of these worlds decided that the republic just wasn't worth it. The first order didn't kill the New republic, it wasn't there to begin with.

[@fumarc4501]

I was really hoping that they would have thought to include the Imperial Remnants, Lost Tribe of the Sith, and more jedi coming out of hiding.

[@HalfTangible]

Doesn't work? It doesn't *exist* Like... it does *nothing* in TFA and by TLJ it's gone entirely.

[@amazingbro6723]

Man, this was a long time coming, also since you did a first order video and now the new republic: Perfectly balanced 👌

[@danielhaire6677]

As all things in life should be

[@CaydeTheSixth]

Republic: *Stations their entire fleet in one place, making it a easy target* US Navy in 1941: Hey,I've seen this one before.

[@Man_Aslume]

Republic: what do you mean you seen it? It's brand new

[@CaydeTheSixth]

@@Man_Aslume why is Man in charge of the New Republic? Is he stupid?

[@Man_Aslume]

@@CaydeTheSixth the fiddler blew up republic

[@Cgambler]

Remember when Cobb said that Tatooine fell into chaos immediately after the Imperial occupation withdrew? Who could have possibly seen that coming?

[@kevinbryer2425]

“Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others that have been tried.” -Winston Churchill

[@monadsingleton9324]

No, Constitutional Republics are better. Universal suffrage and giant government deficits are a recipe for disaster.

[@habibihabibi7115]

No, dictatorships are better.

[@monadsingleton9324]

@@HydratedBeans Not my fault We The People prefer to use their vote to demand more gibs from the government instead of electing better leaders. But you do you.

[@11Survivor]

@@monadsingleton9324 What's that? You're complaining? Enjoy the privilege that comes with universal suffrage and equal rights...

[@monadsingleton9324]

@@11Survivor Yeah, that's kinda the point. Voting is a privilege to be earned, not a right to be bestowed just because you were born into a particular country.

[@francesco8000]

One of the very few thing consistent in ALL star wars content (movies, games, legend and new canon) is that the Republic does not work and it's fall is simply inevitable. Knights of the old republic is set 4'000 years before the movies and the republic was already a disfunctional government extremely vulnerable to external attacks (the mandalorian and the sith). But, to be fair, almost all major groups\organizations in star wars (the republic, the empire, Jedi, SIth...) are extremely flawed, it's a pity that very few stories point that out.

[@Alex_FRD]

On today's episode of "Things We Already Knew"... Honestly, I don't know how they could write something so insanely nonsensical as "the Republic is just 5 planets in one system now after 1,000 years of interstellar government, lowl".

[@XHero220]

You know what makes me sad that all those Rebels fighters realize that the Empire is actually BETTTER than the New Republic.

[@raymondyee2008]

All the sacrifices made was all for nothing. And that is something anime could learn from.

[@outatime626]

This really comes down to the fact that the sequel trilogy wanted the first order to have the power of the galactic empire, but the galactic empire is not the first order. The situation was too different.

[@freakrx2349]

The New Republic in Legends lasted longer than in Canon.

[@danielhaire6677]

They were competently run for the most part.

[@AlexSeverinski]

No, it didn't. The New Republic in Canon fell in 34 ABY. The New Republic in Legends fell in 27 ABY. And before you bring up the Galactic Alliance, that's a whole different thing.

[@wolfmantheimpaler]

And that was despite a gurella camping from the remnants of the Empire and a full scale invasion from aliens from another Galaxy

[@chimeraelite]

Not really, but there were years and years of books showing them working to keep it together to one degree or another. Compared to the 25 year jump to the sequels and then whoops they went 🤯 and didn't do much

[@nicktechnubyte1184]

Legends over Disney Star Wars canon everytime! No contest!

[@mendelevium2768]

The Republic was a Star Wars character much like how Luke Skywalker was, and just as Luke got dunked on, so did the Republic.

[@AxeltheKing1000]

so true

[@evoluxman9935]

"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it, and no matter how dire the circumstances, no matter how flawed the democracy might be, there will always be people of courage" What a beautiful line. Very good analysis video, I loved the one about the first order, yet this one is somehow even better.

[@__-jt4tv]

Garth Merengi's Darkplace *And* A Bridge Too Far? Really going above and beyond on the references here! Superb analysis piece, generally!

[@WanukeX]

18:28 - Welcome to Majority Governments under the Westminster System, oftentimes the Head of Government doesn't even need to be all that charismatic to enforce loyalty, just ensure that anyone who breaks with the party line is removed and not re-elected and loyalty is near absolute.

[@Mjolnir117]

The New Republic in the EU worked fine until the Vong invasion….. oh you mean disney’s wannabe Nu Republic.

[@chimeraelite]

Yea I'm reading Onslaught book 2 right now and uh yea, they're slow to act to say the least. The Vong war is the shit

[@NormieNerddom]

Demilitarizing was so damn stupid. When you still have Imperial loyalists, eliminating your fighting force is categorically nonsensical. Thanks, sequel writers.

[@mystyle_jm8997]

Which writers, Disney Writers or 20th Century Fox Writers?

[@saberpat7]

Have to say I really appreciated this video, It's a compelling argument and helps me respect the nuance of the new Republic's challenges but also frankly just makes me more certain the sequel series was a misfire

[@stephendsummerlin]

This is one of your best videos to date. Fact driven SW content with conjecture that is poignant to current world super powers. You add in the well timed and timely jokes from other series, and you have ... *chefs kiss* Good soup Bravo sir and well done.

[@vonneely1977]

It's important to remember that in the Outer Rim, where the original Seperatists were born, the Empire remained popular as they brought the law & order that the Old Republic had failed to provide them for centuries. Likewise, local Moffs represented a local government that was present and concerned with their problems as opposed to the distant Senate on Coruscant. So what the New Republic really did was leave the areas that they knew (historically) they couldn't manage to those who had proven better at it (i.e. the Empire) ... while keeping the aristocrat favoring Core Worlds (and their wealth) for themselves. It was a win-win for the New Republic.

[@doublep1980]

Correction: the Disney version of the New Republic doesn't work. The EU or ''Legends'' version of the New Republic survived Thrawn, the Dark Empire and only collapsed after the Yuuzhan Vong took Coruscant and crushed almost the entire galaxy. Then again, the ''non existing source material'', was written by people who actually knew what they were doing.

[@ronin3381]

The Canon New Republic actually makes perfect sense for the most part, as Templin explains in this video.

[@Kaosi]

And they still managed to come back from the brink!

[@barbiquearea]

To be fair even in late Legends the New Republic (or Federation of Independent Planets as it became known) folded a little too easily when the Imperial Remnants under the Fel Dynasty and Darth Krayt's reestablished Sith Order went on a campaign of reconquest. Fortunately for the galaxy these Imperial factions ended locked in a civil war and distracted, which allowed resistance groups to reassert Federation rule.

[@SirMcCheese]

Yeah have to agree the fact that there was seemingly no major resistance to the first order is so strange. Especially if you have a decentralized military controlled by different planets and systems.

[@Kubinda12345]

I think that the New Republic's issues post-Endor are very well described in the Aftermath novels which picture the political conflict between Mon Mothma's and Leia's factions. Mon Montha and her faction believed that there's no point to destroying the imperial remnants and they also thought that Palpatine's Empire rose from militarism therefore demilitarization would prevent rise of a new Empire. On the other hand Leia's faction wanted to destroy the imperial remants and they also believed that the Empire rose from lawlesness and that a centralized military is necessary to prevent it and the subsequent rise of a new Empire. Anyway I think that the main issues with the New Republic (NR) were caused by Episode VIII's title crawl where it's written that the First Order (FO) rules the galaxy. Instead it would've been better if the FO's decapitation strike on Hosnian Prime was followed by a massive offensive but the NR's remnants would've reconsolidated by the end of Episode VIII. Episode IX could've started with the aftermath of NR's successful offensives coupled with Kylo's incompetent leadership - he like Vader was a warrior, not a politician - forcing the FO to ally themselves with the Sith Eternal. And the attack of Exegol would've been led by NR's forces gaining the galaxy wide legitimacy, military victory and support it needed to prove its viability. It would also help because unlike now when we don't know who rules the galaxy post Episode IX it would've been the NR ruling the galaxy proving that democracy can make mistakes but can also win wars. But instead the conflict between the directors and general Hollywood idea that all wars are evil led to mess and chaos.

[@Xekzelstriker]

Wow you pretty much stayed in a lot of my issues of how quickly the republic surrendered to the first order. Good video, hope to see more.

[@ivancerecer5758]

Finn: The Republic got destroyed! Me: ...There was a new Republic?

[@jbadger30]

Here is my two cents. They should have never demilitarized when all anyone had to say to any critic was, “do you want another Alderaan?” What happened to Alderaan was the perfect example of everything WRONG with the Empire, the lengths they would go to maintain their stranglehold, their pure ruthless arrogance that any wrong they did was justified and their complete disregard for everything they swore to protect. All any military proponent would have to do is point to an image of Alderaan’s rubble and say, “2 billion lives were extinguished because of one mans mad whim. That can NEVER be allowed to happen again.”

[@barbiquearea]

Alderaan's destruction was a huge focal point for why the Rebel Alliance started picking up steam, that was along with them destroying the Death Star, the very instrument of Alderaan's destruction. "Remember Alderaan" also became strong propaganda for the Alliance in motivating their resistance against the Empire.

[@Kaosi]

I miss the New Republic from Legends. It was beset by infighting and got his ass kicked when it came to fight something that wasn't the Imperial Remnant, but they managed to keep the fire of the Rebellion alive when the chips were down. Heck, even the politician responsible for these loss against the Vong, managed a last "fuck you" to them by making himself and his offices blow up taking 25.000 of them with him.

[@Webshooters1]

The New Republic in the EU was much more plausible.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

"Democracies are weak and cannot stand up to the rigors of war." Punic Wars Era Roman Reoublic, Civil War America, and Napoleonic France: You can say that again.