The First Order - New Republic War Doesn't Work | Star Wars

[@TemplinInstitute]

The First Order - New Republic War Reimagined premieres May 5th, 2022! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnLMXmCChcp-h7M

[@user-Jay178]

That will be good

[@alexhuynh1066]

Will the Jedi return after this reimagined scenario? I hope but let's find out

[@matthewdavis9966]

I couldn’t be more excited! I hope the Sequel Trilogy reimagined series continues forever!!!

[@biggsdarklighter0473]

@@alexhuynh1066 probably as its own Kind of warrior monks, intermingling with the regular forces.

[@themanwithhighground4279]

Make a video on Alpha Legion from WarHammer 40k.

[@neofulcrum5013]

Honestly the new republic being neutered was the biggest disappoint to me. It made the efforts of Rebel Alliance mean nothing to just be wiped out in one go.

[@vice2versa]

Exactly, it honestly made no sense.

[@saliston]

This was the biggest annoyance to me that the New Republic had no military whatsoever and if they did have anything they just capitulated instantly

[@spacepig4464]

yep, everything in the sequels is pretty stupid

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@vice2versa Because the Prequels already showed up a Big Republic and that story didn't work. Because the idea of big organizations fighting in SW doesn't work, so the Sequels didn't want that mess. They just wanted a small group fighting a big one.

[@razgriz9146]

​@@ShadowSonic2 whatever you say, sheep. You're literally the only one with such a piss-poor opinion.

[@XraynPR]

"Somehow, Palpatine returned" I think this still is the perfect summary of the sequels and why they do not work at all.

[@bloodysimile4893]

Star wars: Tell us, that we have a plan. lucasflim: Get this franchise off my agenda.

[@byron2FZ]

Do we really expect an officer in the Resistances starfighter corps to know the intimate details of Sith resurrection.

[@Ealsante]

@@byron2FZ I do expect the writers to know the intimate details of Sith resurrection, if they were going to pull that bullshit.

[@pendragon0905]

As the Nostalgia Critic said: We had one Palpatine, yes. What about second Palpatines?

[@byron2FZ]

@@Ealsante good thing they did then? It isn't explained in detail in the film because the movie isn't focused on Palpatine, but the lore books expand on what the film did describe about it and give a detailed explanation.

[@comentnine1574]

You should do a series surrounding this concept of “this doesn’t work” like explaining why certain factions or events like wars just don’t war for any number of reasons.

[@TemplinInstitute]

We did. This is video #5 in that series.

[@darthjekyll3648]

@@TemplinInstitute can you rhetcon, remake and tie infinite warfare to Halo and do so if the subscribers and non subscribers pass a threshold. Pweeaasssee 🙏.

[@comentnine1574]

@@TemplinInstitute I mean on other things that don’t make sense in other universes like the Holy Britannian Empire from Code Geass for example or the Batarian hegemony from Mass Effect. I’m sure that the First order, the New Republic and the war between the two isn’t the only thing that doesn’t make sense in a multi universal scale.

[@gabbagandalf1511]

@@comentnine1574 Dude.. can you read? They did exactly that.

[@Foxx607]

@@darthjekyll3648 Ahhhhhhhh what how do your contextualized and tie two DIFFERENT intellectual product together.

[@sveltercube4070]

“I don’t know how we got here, I don’t really know what the objectives are, I don’t know what this is supposed to achieve, and I don’t understand why events played out the way they did.” Perfect summary of the sequel trilogy.

[@kjj26k]

The Conscript's Cry

[@davidragan9233]

"It's Art it's not supposed to make sense plebs! it's just supposed to push our political agenda in flashy fast-paced hypnotic fashion! You are not supposed to analyze it for it's flaws, just be good little plebs and parrot the views." ~Hellywood and KK Palpatine: They summoned me back for this?

[@longgone6312]

Hahaha😂😂😂 all three are just nonsensical hahaha

[@MrCB555]

That reminds me of a "drama" that I had once recorded on a cassette tape when I was 8 years old. The characters suddenly had to jump into warplanes and fight. "We're at war!" "With who?" "I dunno!"

[@slovakiaballif24]

"'The New Republic Lies to the galaxy!' About what, though? Who really knows, it's not important." This a quote that accurately sums up what the directors and executives were thinking while making this trilogy

[@Audifaram]

My hadcannon is, that the first order was just a multi system Faction like the new republic but had issues with infighting namely the resistance. The resistance got support from the new republic, but the republic denied publicly to do that. The first Order was pissed and started to attack the new republic. The lie would be the republic not supporting the resistance.

[@sethb3090]

They lie and say they're not supporting the Resistance, which is an act of treachery because everyone knows the NR is supposed to be answering to the First Order. Or something.

[@blackmage665]

@@Audifaram but that would mean that the resistance, with Leia in charge...was part of the first order?

[@joshm9782]

@@blackmage665 she could be part of a foreign volunteer force that helps them and due to her fame rose up to a leadership position either in the same way as there are foreign volunteers in Ukraine or more similar to the German and soviet volunteer forces in the Spanish civil war

[@blackmage665]

@@joshm9782 We seem to be doing a lot of shark jumping for this headcannon. Why would there need to be such a force in the 20 years or so of peace?

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

"I don't really know what's at stake here" -on the Republic Fleet Composition. See, this is EXACTLY the problem with transitioning from an ad-hoc built rebel fleet hiding from the rest of the galaxy, to two actual states fighting a war: while the nature of the Clone Wars meant the battle lines didn't matter as much, because it was a massive and messy war with no clear battle lines, the Sequel Trilogy has no such excuse, as the First Order has actual borders, and has given us no reason to believe they had a serious military presence elsewhere in the galaxy before their attack. That means the New Republic has a MASSIVE pool of resources to safely pull from, such that the New Republic should be able to build entire fleets of small ships in weeks. A Mon Calamari cruiser took roughly six months to build, and a frigate like a Nebulon-B took one month, so it stands to reason that Star Fighters using mostly civilian parts could be built within days, maybe even less. In other words, that massive flood of ships from the final movie is EXACTLY what the Republic fleet should have looked like *weeks* into the war, not at its end, so...where the heck was it, and why is the bare minimum of what the Republic should be able to do such a shock to everyone?

[@alexanderzack3720]

if i remember correctly (which might not be the case since i mostly tried to repress memories from the two movies of the sequels i´ve seen, episodes 7 and 8) the way the movies presented itself is that the republic isn´t in charge, the first order is... so somehow, in a way we aren´t told, the republic formed after the empire was "gone" again and only a small resistance remained

[@FELIPEFODAOBR12]

The biggest reason for that not happening is probably the "woke", highly currupt, unpopular, inefective, anti war, burocratic mess of a goverment that was institutionalised by the NR, thats precicely why the resistente was formed, bc Leia coundt stand their Bulsh*t anymore (besides her been "cancelled" after some opposition senators fund out she was vader's daughter). It must also be said that unlike what was thought after the end of ep 6, the empire still remained controling a huge chunk of the galaxy (and lets be honest, the fact they killed the emperor and destroyed like a battlestation and a few ships has almost no relevance when it comes to the geostrategic situation of the galaxy, since the empire literally controls about 95% of the star systems at that period, with a massive operational fleet and army), lets not forget that not even coruscant was liberated by the NR, which was one of the reasons they choose that other star system to be their capital. Most planetary systems just couldnt give a damn about the NR (specially those who fought for more autonomy joining the CIS during the clone wars and were against the idea of a single centralized body of goverment), hell i bet some even openly decided to remain under imperial (now first order zone of control). Its all explained better on the comics that passes on this period of time, like the Chuck wendig series of books and the mandalorian/book of boba fett series.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@alexanderzack3720 , The Republic was in Charge... and neglected the threat of the First Order... which caused the Resistance to exist. To cut the funding/supply of the Resistance off, the only threat to the First Order, they destroyed Not-Coruscant. Then, they lose Starkiller Base within hours after use. A few days later, the New Republic is No More. (the time period between start of Episode VII and the Start of Episode VII is only mere days) We are never told what happened to the Empire in the Movies, that's what the Aftermath series was for... and in those novels, the Empire deliberately committed self-termination by following the Emperor's Will (the one you read after a person is confirmed to be dead), which resulted in the last Imperial Fleet to surrender 1 year after Emperor's Death above the planet Jakku. The entire Empire was destroyed in a single year after the Emperor's death... The entire Republic was destroyed in a single 5 minute sequence... Shitty writing is still Shitty.

[@SidneyBroadshead]

Disney wanted a Star Wars movie without space battles and light saber fights.

[@FELIPEFODAOBR12]

@@SidneyBroadshead family friendly

[@Arvidus89]

What became increasingly clear during the release of the sequel trilogy, was that much of the background narrative was either given very low priority or neglected entirely. This might be because of the production teams' (most likely mainly Abrams', Johnson's and Kennedy's) apparent disdain for the (sterotypical) 'flaws' of the Star Wars-franchise; 'Too much unnecessary lore, -fluff and distracting elements such as politics, technobable and extended mythology' (mostly orginating from the Prequels' poor reputation), believing that Star Wars should mainly be a straight forward story about Good vs Evil.

[@F4Wildcat]

This is infact the "new way" of making films and series and it suffers because of it. Dont question on what and why. Here is the obvious story, stick to it.

[@bombvoyage5686]

The irony is that I relish in that lore, mythology and technobabble so when a story doesn’t have it and we know it does. The war feels like a flash in the pan and also dead since this makes the first order feel like a paper tiger that gets obliterated by a hand full of paramilitarists.

[@talideon]

I think you can easily put the blame on one thing above all: Abrams' masturbatory "mystery box" nonsense leading to a lack of planning of the trilogy's arc. At this point, he should stick to funding stuff and being directly involved only in once-offs.

[@The_Murder_Party]

@@bombvoyage5686 yeah, I'm pretty sure what makes the prequels as beloved (not by everyone, but generally the people who like it *really* like it.) as they are, *is* that background, and there was space to create the clone wars in it, making it many peoples, myself included, favorite era of starwars history.

[@Casey-jn3ib]

They did not think about the background information at all. If you dive into legends you can see surprising detail and contextual information for every war, the war in the sequels is straight up painful ridiculous.

[@isaacwilcox3010]

The sequels would’ve been so much more interesting if the First Order truly felt more like the last remnants of the empire. They don’t feel like a remnant. They feel like the literal empire without any changes and with all their strength intact. It would’ve been dope to watch a trilogy where the bad guys are actually at a disadvantage.

[@roryscott2941]

The original Thrawn books felt like that, doing more with less, trying to get the Imperial warlords to join. I enjoyed them a great deal

[@Talon3000]

@@roryscott2941 Lots of the old EU was much better than what we got now. Thrawn, Zsinj, Krennel, Isard. Lots of powerful players in splinter factions that were sometimes opposed, sometimes allied.

[@SignificantNumberOfBeavers]

I really like that idea. The original trilogy had the good guys as the scrappy underdogs, the prequels had two evenly matched factions where it wasn't even clear who the good guys even were, the sequels could have played an interesting angle with the bad guys as the scrappy underdogs.

[@ArkBlanc]

Would've been cool if the roles were switched and the last remnants of the Empire are now the ones doing the guerilla warfare instead of the new Republic.

[@wilberwhateley7569]

Because that’s what they were - the Galactic Empire under a new label with leadership from a discount lord and his whiny apprentice…

[@n00bplayer72]

I could never take the First Order seriously, because they were so hysterically overpowered, and the Resistance so hysterically underpowered by comparison. Because it's like, every time the Resistance destroys one of their big guns with their two and a half x-wings, the First Order just pulls out a bigger and more powerful gun out of their back pocket like it's some kind of cartoon. You'd think losing Starkiller Base, their primary fleet and their Supreme Leader in less than two days would be enough for them to pull back and rethink their decisions, but apparently not.

[@Jonnyg325]

The old superweapon of the week club from the early EU comes to mind

[@captainhowlerwilson508]

Then that big weapon gets destroyed too, and then on and on.

[@Ale-dd3ek]

@@Jonnyg325 sequels took all EU flaws but none of the good things EU had

[@lumbagoboi1649]

Ikr the first order is so comically overpowered and stupid at the same time . Space balls had more consistent lore than this. A fuckin comedy had a more logical story than a multi million dollar movie. Like it's actually amazing how hard Disney tried to make these movies suck.

[@flyboymb]

They even pulled a bigger Snoke out.

[@horsfred]

That comparison to WW2 Japan really helped me realize just how stupid the conflict in these movies are

[@emberfist8347]

It is even worse as Pearl Harbor wasn't even an proper victory for Japan. They just destroyed some ships and delayed operations there for a few months when if they hit our oil reserves they could have set us back years. The quote might not actually be real the phrase "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with an unshakable resolve" is apt as that is what they did. They are misquito that got the attention of a giant. And really that is a good summary of the entire war as Japan wasn't even high on our priorities during the war. The Marine Corps was the last in line to get new equipment at the time after the Army and Navy and while they were flying around and annoying us for a years, we eventually swatted them and smashed them under our boot.

[@Sam-jx8tv]

Yeah when he laid that out there I laughed really hard.

[@emberfist8347]

@@ScooterinAB That is a classic fallacy. Besides there is source material that is the screenplay you use.

[@ScooterinAB]

@@emberfist8347 No, it's pointing out that you nor I have any idea what we're talking about. You're also very quick to dismiss what I'm saying, with proves why you're argument here is completely invalid. You aren't a movie producer. You aren't a screenwriter. You're just some keyboard warrior who's shitting on everything they come across because there are no perceived consequences. You are acting on cognitive bias and projecting your own opinion onto a situation and presenting it as fact. So until you present your screenplay, what you say is your and only your opinion, and your criticism is baseless because you are using your opinion as fact. And if you don't like what Disney is "doing" to Star Wars, then don't watch their movies. No one is holding a gun to your head. Lastly, when you spend $4 billion on something, you can decide how you use it. Until you come up with a screenplay proving that you're a better writer than those who produced these films, or you come up with $4 billion, I do not care what you think. Happy? Or are you just going to dismiss this too?

[@ScooterinAB]

@Layne Staley I believe in the "put up or shut up" code. You don't have to be a pilot to see a plane crash, but you do have to be one if you're going around saying you could have flown the plane better. Again, until I see your screenplay, all this is is noise from an entitled boob who thinks they're special.

[@Casey-jn3ib]

If only the writers put more than five minutes into these movies, and knew how to write.

[@jujuplayboy]

If only they were given time to plan something (anything !), then this trilogy could have been somehow good.

[@shawngillogly6873]

@@jujuplayboy They had years for a basic outline. They never made one.

[@jujuplayboy]

@@shawngillogly6873 Barely 3 years. Lucasfilms was bought by Disney in october 2012, ep. VII was released in december 2015. Disney chose to rush things.

[@shawngillogly6873]

@@jujuplayboy Three years is plenty of time to write a coherent story sequence. It didn't have to be a detailed script treatment for all 3. Just a plan.

[@Elmithian]

@@shawngillogly6873 The writing is generally finished before you start filming with only occasional changes done during filming itself.

[@Evadson]

There's also the fact that the new Star Destroyers being offered by the Sith Eternal each have a MAJOR design flaw. While they are each equipped with a cannon capable of destroying a planet, these cannons don't seem to have any armor whatsoever and if they are destroyed the entire Star Destroyer is destroyed with it. The Sith Eternal took one of the most formidable ships ever put into service and turned it into a glass cannon that can be destroyed by a single fighter without any heavy weapons.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Second flaw: They are just ISD's with a swelling disorder and a giant laser p3n1s. Third flaw: they are somehow incapable of finding "up" with both hands.

[@The_Murder_Party]

...should'a just built more harrowers...

[@meepfanmeepster8620]

Its like the f100 shtfortress scaled up to a capital ship

[@Gerishnakov]

I actually laughed when I saw all those Star Destroyers at Exegol.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@Gerishnakov When I heard Exegol in the theater, my thoughts immediately went to, "Do not take Exegol if you are allergic to Exegol of other NSAID's. Side effect may include..."

[@Del_S]

The strategic goal of the war shifts quickly, so it may be missed. Initially, in Force Awakens, it is to s̶e̶t̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶m̶y̶s̶t̶e̶r̶y̶ s̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶y̶s̶ , let the small First Order try cow the galaxy, which is fortunately full of idiots. By Last Jedi (IE about a day later) it has shifted to s̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶y̶s̶ s̶u̶b̶v̶e̶r̶t̶ ̶a̶u̶d̶i̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶c̶t̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ petty revenge as the FO wants to get back at the Resistance while forming up larger forces. But a year later in The Rise Of Rey'd Shadow Legends, it has again shifted to s̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶y̶s̶ g̶e̶t̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶d̶i̶r̶e̶c̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶J̶J̶'̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶o̶l̶ ̶u̶n̶s̶o̶l̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶m̶y̶s̶t̶e̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶v̶i̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶P̶a̶l̶p̶a̶t̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶t̶h̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶B̶U̶T̶ ̶L̶O̶T̶S̶ ̶O̶F̶ ̶T̶H̶E̶M̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶t̶r̶o̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶i̶g̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶s̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶y̶s̶ random force bullshit because apparently that's all they think people want from these movies

[@FHT1883]

facts

[@SuwinTzi]

"Rey'd Shadow Legends" that's pretty fucking good.

[@RedXlV]

This is what happens when instead of drawing up even the merest semblance of an overall narrative for the trilogy and telling the directors "you have to work within this framework", instead they were just told "do whatever you damn well please with 2nd biggest movie franchise in history" and even let the directors retcon the shit out of each other over petty grudges. Imagine what a clusterfuck Disney's *other* big franchise (the MCU) would be if one of the directors decided he would have Ant-Man randomly kill Thanos 4 years before Avengers: Endgame, *and Disney just let him do it.* Star Wars should if anything have tighter continuity than a superhero comic adaptation, but for some reason Disney did the exact opposite.

[@drakron]

@@RedXlV Yes, and its even more damning when George Lucas only had A New Hope set in a way it was a complete story, sure there was a plot hook in the end but Lucas was loosing faith and didnt think it would had a sequel, let alone 2 more movies. They had the time to set a trilogy and this is what they come up with, 3 separate movies.

[@ettubrute_]

I like how you went with ..."how strange the First Order-New Republic War is." You were really constrained to make this as educational as possible and resisted with every fiber of your being to call it "fucking stupid"

[@micropocari1604]

that's what made it soooo good to watch!

[@christopherbravo1813]

him thinking that Disney Star Wars is superior to the EU helped a bit with that.

[@Voxrar]

As much as some people might not have liked seeing the Senate in the prequels, honestly it helped us understand the situations of the galaxy. Putting context on battles from planets like Kashyyyk asking for aid when they were invaded.

[@argus2389]

This is why we need to see the Star Wars politics because they give context. Without them we have no idea who these people are or why they’re fighting

[@skepticalmagos_101]

Yeah.... Its the politics that make star wars kinda cool. its the prequel Politics that brought me into the franchise to boot.

[@Mgauge]

Yup. For all we know, the entire “war” in the sequels was just a squabble between two heavily equipped gangs out in the space-boonies. Nobody had an ideology, or a goal, or a history, or even a concrete desire. They just fought because one side was good and one was bad and not a single thing deeper than that. Despite everyone saying how big the stakes supposedly were, nothing besides a handful of characters even seemed to exist.

[@meepfanmeepster8620]

@@Mgauge New head-canon. The entire sequel triology is a bunch of chunibyo afflicted gang leaders fighting over a half dozen systems. Armed by a bunch of well off arms dealers. Where they get the funding? Why through exorbitant 'taxes' of course! Now you can't actually keep up this level of tech so they are rushing to beat the other guy down before they run out of funds. That's why the sequel only takes like three days of conflict

[@FrostbiteDigital]

Well unfortunately that's on the fault on all the idiots that complained about the politics and government aspects of Star Wars during the prequel era. This trilogy was nothing more than to appease those that wanted to go back to Rebels and Empire because "membur star wurz!!"

[@argus2389]

@@FrostbiteDigital there’s a great video about how the sequels are an anti trilogy, 7 is anti prequels, 8 is anti 7 and nostalgia, 9 is anti 8. And in it the guy says how the original trilogy had politics and getting rid of them is anti Star Wars because Star Wars was always political but not what we consider political nowadays

[@razorback8300]

According to Disney it’s not the “new republic war “ it is the rebel vs empire war 2 electric boogaloo AKA resistance vs first order

[@Bogdan221192]

I do not remember which youtuber said that, but: The first order fight against present government..so they are technically rebels. So its rebels fighting different rebels.

[@razorback8300]

I can see we’re you are coming. But one thing that does not make sense is the naming of the resistance as the resistance was set up before the war so it does not make sense to call it the resistance TBF

[@vanguard6498]

its rebs vs imps but 10x worse. The Resistance is a bunch of annoying grubs while the first order were a bunch of screaming lunatic

[@LAV-III]

@@Bogdan221192 the rebels are fighting rebels who no longer became rebels after they blew up 5 planets only to become rebels again a year later lol

[@hellacoorinna9995]

@@Bogdan221192 It's Waco versus the Glowies :D

[@peterhanes7333]

There could be one possible justification to focusing on snuffing out the Resistance in "The Last Jedi". If the First Order wanted to rely on Starkiller Base as a tool to keep other planets in line, it would make sense to keep its destruction a secret. This would also explain why so many planets immediately surrendered, as they would be afraid their planet was next. However, this should have been noted by the writers themselves as a big deal. Leia should have noted that they needed to get back to tell everyone Starkiller was no longer a threat. Instead, this was never brought up.

[@SpaceStick]

That would be a pretty good explanation and I will think of that as the reason until (if they make one) there is a given reason.

[@byron2FZ]

Fits well with Rogue One, where we see a Rebel official freak out about how the Empire has the means of mass destruction and they cannot match it.

[@FlipDarkFuture]

That is essentially the reason in the movie I'm fairly certain. That and the Resistance is made up of veteran rebels like Ackbar and Leia, so killing them means killing one of the most visible and enduring signs of resistance against the First Order.

[@emberfist8347]

@@byron2FZ Which didn't make sense. As the Empire willing to destroy planets would be a wake-up call to the galaxy that they are the baddies.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

If we know that the Moskva sank, the Galaxy knows that Starkiller base blew up.

[@Freekymoho]

this "war" is really just a series of insane asspulls. The first order pulls insane ammounts of material out of thin air and does something absurd with it. Then the resistance sweeps in and somehow pulls an even more insane uno reverse. This litterally just repeats throughout all three movies. 1.starkiller destroys the entire NR instantly, and is then destroyed within hours 2. The first order suddenly has the military might to occupy the entire(???) Galaxy at once, but then the resistances breaks the rules of hyperdrives and destroys an entire fleet 3. Palpatine returns out of nowhere ("somehow") and now has a thousand death star destroyers, all of which are destroyed at once before doing anything

[@RedXlV]

Seriously, as visually spectacular as that hyper-ram scene was, it made zero sense and was clearly only put in the script to *be* visually spectacular. Like how Michael Bay movies are filled with explosions regardless of whether they make sense because it looks cool. If hyperspace actually *did* work that way then hyper-missiles would've been the primary method of space combat in the Star Wars universe ever since the hyperdrive was first invented. The prequel-era Republic was a thousand years old. Previous incarnations of a Galactic Republic had been around for thousands more. And then there's however long it took between the invention of the hyperdrive and the unification of most of the galaxy under a single government. And we're supposed to believe that in all those millennia, *nobody* had ever before thought about the question "what would happen if a ship activates its hyperdrive while on a ramming course with another ship?" Holdo in TLJ coming up with it as a spur of the moment idea was the first time it was ever tried?

[@Freekymoho]

@@RedXlV it makes no sense. Even if we somehow buy that holdo is the first, it then isnt given anywhere near the weight it should have. The final order would have posed zero threat, and anyone with a hyperdrive would have death-star level destructive power.

[@mrhyde4732]

It seems that the prequels have all the elegance of a 6 year old with his anti-everything gun and ______ proof shield.

[@Bustermachine]

From a story writing perspective, I think one of the biggest weaknesses of the sequel trilogy was chronological. In the original and sequel trilogies, its clear that key events are separated by at least a year each. This is never spoke out loud, but it creates an implicit assumption for the audience about how characters have changed and a few throw away lines can flesh things out. We can use out imagination and our suspension of disbelief to understand how event have progressed. And honestly, this is a thing Lucas was actually good at. But the sequel trilogy is caught in this weird, two film back to back, and then the last film a year later in the timeline. Which is both too little time for an epic War in the Stars, and doesn't really leave space to organically fill out what was going on . . . It also just . . . really doesn't give the characters room to breathe.

[@Jonnyg325]

Episode 4 takes something like a week, then I think about 4-6 months to the beginning of 5, 5 takes another week or 2, then another 4-6 months to episode 6, then finally 6 in anywhere from about 4 days to a month. So the original trilogy is anywhere between 6-7 months and 13-14 months. That number climbs to about 5-7 years if you go by the old EU

[@shinystarmiestudios4179]

The original trilogy did take place over 13 years. Episode 2 was 10 years after Episode 1, and Episode 3 was 3 years after Episode 2.

[@LiamCameron77]

@@shinystarmiestudios4179 no

[@jondobson]

Let me make some corrections here. The Phantom Menace takes place a bit over a decade before Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith takes place less then 4 years after episode 2. A New Hope takes place 19 years after episode 3 and The Empire Strikes Back takes place 3-4 years after episode 4 and Return of the Jedi takes place around 6 months after Episode 5. Just some more accurate info to clear things up.👍

[@violetlavi2207]

@@Jonnyg325 Episode 5 is three years after Episode 4, and Episode 6 is a year later. The OT spans 4 years, not 14 months

[@shinyagumon7015]

The whole Canto Bite subplot always felt so weird to me, like we have this simple story of an evil overpowered Empire against the good underdog Rebels suddenly interrupted with a "Maybe the REAL enemy was capitalism all along!" message that doesn't go anywhere and is never brought up again. Very jarring. They should've either cut that completely or should've entirely committed to it. Like imagine the Canto Bite casino scene, but instead of playing Space Roulette all the guests are watching news reels about the war, eyes practically glued to the screens and then after a Resistance fighter or a FO Dreadnaught goes down we see them cheer and start throwing around free drinks or something. Like imagine if it was revealed that the First Order is actually so incompetent by design! Because they're just a bunch of neo imperialists that can't tell their faces from their arses and are only useful idiots to the military industrial complex who have grown worried about the New Republic's demilitarization hurting their bottom line. I mean Snoke running around in a golden bathrobe would've made way more sense if it was revealed that he was actually just a rich Executive Manager who was send to keep the FO in line with the arms manufacturers. Would also make a better reason for why Kylo killed him and allow the FO to become a real threat in the last film by making them root out the company shills and start being an effective war force.

[@acesw6124]

It would also gibe depth to the Films as they are now 7-9 feel very cramped and boring and very very very confusing

[@aaronaukema1284]

The idea of weapons dealers making bank off both sides is not "capitalism bad" but rather an indictment against war itself. I mean, it was financiers that encouraged the British to keep fighting WWI after getting beat pretty badly, after promising to get the US into the war. Why? Because they stood to gain (and did, mightily). The problem with the Canto Bite scene is that it really makes no sense, considering the events around it. We are told the war is one of existential importance, in which the First Order will destroy all freedom (I think? It's not clear what the danger is with a manchild emo guy running around with temper tantrums taking directions from a retired boomer in a bathrobe). If it's a war of existential importance, then the whole weapons dealers thing is out of place. Which, of course, totally explains its presence in the film.

[@Alex_Ander_]

The First Order could be made incompetent on purpose by Palpatine himself. He then could take over Rey, kick some FO ass, become a "hero" for the resistance against the First Order and then use his reputation to rule the galaxy again as its liberator.

[@aaronaukema1284]

@@Alex_Ander_ but for all intents and purposes, Palps was dead as a door nail. His resurrection/persistence is perhaps the single dumbest thing Kennedy/Jar Jar invented.

[@TheNobleFive]

I rewatched the scene and still don't see where any viewers pulled "Capitalism bad" from. All they said was that third parties were shamelessly profiting from war. If you want to extend the narrative to "Capitalism bad" then ANY story tangentially involving immoral corporations is a full throated indictment of Capitalism, which is just silly. I think if that scene came out 10 years ago no one except some socialist book club would have read it that way.

[@Croz89]

I felt like the sequel trilogy was trying to up the stakes in every episode, but usually in ways that just made no logical sense. Let's not just have a superweapon that can blow up a single planet at a time after a bit of careful manoeuvring and charging up, let's have a superweapon that can lob multiple planet cracking projectiles halfway across the galaxy at superluminal speeds! Then let's not just have a sizeable fleet of star destroyers, but an armada of thousands, equipped with enough firepower to blow the galaxy to pieces a thousand times over! The problem in both these scenarios is they don't match the capabilities of what we'd expect such a force to have. The Death Star was portrayed as a difficult and expensive project even for a galaxy spanning Empire, possibly pushing the limits of their abilities and military capacity. And yet some scrappy band of extremists managed to build something at least 10x more impressive with a tiny fraction of the resources and power. And then a secretive religious cult manages to build a fleet that dwarfs what the Empire had at its peak. It would be like if North Korea managed to build a fleet of 100 nuclear powered aircraft carriers and Islamic State launched a nuclear missile at the US with a payload that made Tsar Bomba look like a firecracker. It's ludicrous to think either of those entities would ever be in a situation where they can outclass global superpowers past and present with their military strength and technology. And yet, that's exactly what the First and Final Order manage to do in the Star Wars universe.

[@atlanteean]

projectiles at superluminal speed, yet we can see them. that was my first "wtf" is this BS?

[@semtheprogamingmaster8610]

@@atlanteean well... you would be able to see them just not as the recipient :D

[@theyellowmeaning]

@@semtheprogamingmaster8610 again, then you can't demonstrate it on film, unless you do slow-mo, and there is no indication of slow-mo, leaving us with the impression that they fire a superliminal weapon, and we, the viewer, somehow, are able to see the process in real time.

[@semtheprogamingmaster8610]

@@theyellowmeaning sure you can and they did. from outside you can see something like that for sure - just not as the recipient.

[@theyellowmeaning]

@@semtheprogamingmaster8610 ​How do you show, with visual media, a superliminal event? By definition, a superliminal event takes place faster than we can perceive it, regardless of perspective. The most that can be demonstrated in a physical universe consistent with the laws we are familiar with, would be a flash followed by the result. Were it to be a sustained beam, it would still not approach a target like a projectile, it would simply snap into existence. And further the mechanics of how Starkiller operated are still ridiculous. The justification given is worse: that the First Order somehow distorted space to make the event viewable to systems across the galaxy. That would actually be a more effective weapon in and of itself: spatial manipulation; just force the formation of temporary black holes close to the surface of a planet and wipe out all life. As a side benefit, the terrain is preserved for building additional military infrastructure. TLDR: the scale of the whole thing is...not exactly wrong, but *off* , and really that just makes it more egregious as a sci-fi story.

[@zexonhairi7215]

Right because if the first order destroyed the new republic, why in the world would the galaxy be up in arms? The first order didnt say they were the new rulers of the galaxy. They just yeeted the government and peaced out.

[@manticorephoenix]

The galaxy would stand up and take notice of the coup however, regardless of your planets individual political leanings, a force not your own possessing firepower strong enough to annihilate entire worlds from far distances and having a plethora of ships numerous enough to glass whole world's would demand action be taken, diplomatic or otherwise

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

@@manticorephoenix Plus the context of the previous Galactic Civil War. The Rebels were certainly a minority with the First Death Star, but by the second they had far more support when they went to take out the second on Endor, and the events afterwards leading to the currently canon Battle of Jakku that wasted most the star destroyers of the remnant. Now this one Empire remnant 30 years later suddenly whips out a Death Star that can claim systems. The rest of the galaxy probably would be going 'bruh' at this and readying battlegroups, not just letting like 6 x-wings from Leia's weird splinter group do the job.

[@acesw6124]

@@gratuitouslurking8610 it is really not that hard to make a scene about that

[@manticorephoenix]

@@gratuitouslurking8610 and we can still have room to have more fun with this point, it's still to my knowledge Canon that the new republic is barely a fraction of the size of the old, and let's keep the current canonical policies of planets maintaining their own armies instead of a whole State Army, that's still a lot of worlds, citizens, and leaders very upset that their chosen officials were just murdered by a human supremacist military junta, that now demands fealty under the guise of being the only ones capable of projecting stability, we can keep the Resistance small by taking cues of real world French Resistance movements, we can look to the self governed worlds like Ryloth, who while having no love for the Republic, would probably still prefer them as neighbors to the inevitable annexation by the First Order, and could be counted or courted into helping if not outright allying

[@jaieregilmore971]

@@gratuitouslurking8610 I’m surprise that the new republic didn’t have there own version of the Death Star as a deterrent.

[@andy_hk]

I always tell my friends that "I don't enjoy the Star Wars Sequel because it lacks wars". Your video articulated my thought for me. The casino scene almost made me walk out of the cinema.

[@overlord_cloudread]

In case it still hasn't been answered, what occurred during the war was much graver than tactical mistakes or missing context. It was incompetent writing. There are no answers to those questions, because no one in the writing room considered the questions. It doesn't make sense because the writers didn't want it to make sense. They wanted a spectacle, and consistency was not secondary, or even tertiary to that. It flat out wasn't a concern.

[@trenchtierstudios554]

The New Republic was written so badly. Like they banned the use of proton torpedos and ion weapons; weapons that literally helped them win a war vs the Empire. Then the Star Hawk was a stupid idea of a ship. Then we have the undersupplied Resistance somehow still willing to follow the NR rules about torpedos and ion weapons. Idiot idiots all around.

[@amiablereaper]

Mind boggling how the sequel trilogy wasn't even written as a trilogy

[@officernealy]

When the DS-1 Death Star was destroyed by the Rebel Alliance, that forever altered the galaxy perspective of the Empire and tragectory of the Galactic Civil War, even if the former still had numerical advantage. It was definitive proof that the Emperor was capable and willing to commit indiscriminate extermination by destroying Alderaan and that's not even counting subsequent discoveries like the destruction of Jedha & Scarif as well as the sterilization of the Geonosis to hide the weapon's construction. It not only proved to the galaxy at large WHY they needed to take action against the regime but it also proved that they had the power to make a difference despite seemingly impossible odds. You'd think that the destruction of Starkiller Base after it obliterated the Hosnian System, killing potentially trillions, as well as the Supreme Leader's Mega Star-Destroyer, the Supremacy, being cleaved in half by a single ship light-speed ramming it, these events would be a colossal wake-up slap that the galaxy need to rise up against an unquestionably evil force but it doesn't. Instead, they have to wait until an old smuggler turned general reminds them to a year later.

[@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329]

Yep. Welcome to Disney :)

[@andymac4883]

That's one of the things that really bugs me about TLJ. It manages to be both horrifically bleak in the fact that literally nobody shows up to help the Resistance, _and_ have an inspiring speech by Luke about how things are actually not that bad and the Resistance (or I guess Rebellion, now) is being reborn and such. But the Resistance numbers about as many people as they can cram into one YT-1300, versus the First Order that apparently reigns across the galaxy, and nobody else is willing to stand up to them.

[@LAV-III]

Maybe the first order is better at covering up their blunders than we thought? I mean something as big as starkiller or the supremacy blowing up is bound to get leaked.

[@corruptangel6793]

The destruction of Alderaan crippled the galaxy with fear, no-one dared resist and promptly submitted in totality. Rebel factions surrendered, political parties that spoke against the Empire's methods shut up, with a single action the Empire and subjugated the galaxy. But then, the Death Star was destroyed and all that fear suddenly turned to anger, causing the Rebel's resources, recruits and supporters to grow ten fold almost overnight. Suddenly, the Empire realized that the small and scattered annoyance had become a very real threat and they found themselves embroiled in a full scale civil war. That's the feel the OT gave me. I really wanted Snoke to mention something like that, comment on how precarious their position had become with the destruction of Starkiller base. Instead, they...won? No-one dares stand up and do anything? I don't care how big your armada is, or how many legions of troops you have, that's bs.

[@Gerishnakov]

I refuse to accept that light speed ramming is a thing.

[@DerpsWithWolves]

Narratively, many portions of this war could be describe with "...and then:" rather than "...leading to:" This is a terrific weakness. When the Rebel Alliance destroys the first Death Star, you can predict that the Empire will begin hunting them more aggressively, and they do; they hunt for, then attack Hoth, followed by small teams commanded by important Imperial members tracking down Rebel leadership elements in an attempt to capture or kill them after they escaped. The Empire's actions make sense. They're engaging in Counter-Insurgency warfare (COIN). Meanwhile, the Resistance destroys yet another big, round planet-killer, which the First Order incorporated no lessons from previous attempts into, and the First Order begins hunting them... With a massive mobile capital that can't seemingly outrun their ships? And some members of the Resistance have a largely random diversion to a casino during the days-long ordeal? What the hell is even happening... They don't even TRY to use smaller, faster ships to outrun them after a single fighter attack on the fleeing ships isn't totally successful, giving the Resistance ample time to scrounge together an admittedly dismal rescue attempt which somehow still manages to work. Nothing in the new trilogy exists for the sake of consistency; and certainly not between the movies as they each struggle to invalidate each other. They serve only to frame set pieces which exist in isolation, and do little if anything to work together and elevate the experience as a whole. Almost nothing is there because it makes sense, they're there because a previous movie did it. Or did the opposite - which is just a photo negative of the same thing.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

"And then" writing really does seem to be a plague of media. It doesn't rear it's head often but when it does and it's a more mainstream property, nothing is left but ash by the end. Obligatory Game of Thrones gesturing here.

[@DerpsWithWolves]

@@gratuitouslurking8610 Game of Thornes is exactly what came to my mind. Things stopped being "because" of other things, and flowing naturally - and started happening because a lazy writer needed them to happen for the story to work.

[@darth_elsa6681]

The main issue about the war is scale and time frame....if the First Order was going to strike back have them launch large scale sabotage operations and Pearl Harbor style attacks against the New Republic Military. Show us the war actually happening instead of telling us in books or background dialog. The Sequels suffer from the samething OT had at times.....the action on screen often doesn't match the dialog. Your First Order Reinmagined video does a good job showing how it could be better. This is coming from someone who enjoyed the ST.

[@davidbuckley2435]

Or, if the budget isn't available (which Disney has no excuse for), pull an RDM Battlestar Galactica. Have the characters on the fringes of the war as an increasingly horrific disaster is unfolding. "The 6th Fleet just got annihilated over Corellia. That was the last force standing between the First Order and the Core Worlds." Stuff like that can really sell the situation even if we don't see the events onscreen.

[@joshuaehrhardt6093]

The ST does suffer from the movies not giving as much detail just like the OT. It also definitely should have had more of the political lead up or at least show other battles like in ROTS. I will say the story combined through the books, comics and tv shows is pretty cool for how it goes from a Cold War to a hot war and the build it. The ST could use a show rug covers other battles outside of General Organa’s resistance. Maybe even show New Republic Restoration Forces or other planetary defense forces.

[@gustavosanches3454]

You can kinda understand that the OT didn't have such massive large scale battles thanks to budgetary and technological hurdles, we only managed to have one such thing in the final moments of ROTJ and even so it was still quite small scale. On the other hand, these were no issues on the prequels and they put their technological and monetary advances for good use. Even on TPM we have what should've been a minor skirmish of Naboo against the Trade Federation have an actual planetary scale and feel like a massive battle more than almost every single battle in the OT. Which brings to another point as to why the Sequels are hated: they didn't expand the world building that the prequels had done such amazing job. Disney had a lot more money and technology and they decided to discard everything and make copy-paste designs from the OT and have 90% of its setting filmed in empty deserts and forests with no personality whatsoever.

[@emberfist8347]

@@gustavosanches3454 I felt even Return of the Jedi had a large scale to it.

[@hoyer]

I did not think I could hate the sequels more than I did. Templin proved me wrong. It's comforting to know that when the world, or the galaxy, goes crazy, we can always count on Templin. Here, take my sub, you have earned it.

[@Argosh]

The minute I saw that cinematically breathtaking shot of that hyperspace collision I was like "great, so they just completely destroyed all logic in this universe". It just dumpstered my suspension of disbelief immediately.

[@readingking1421]

This series of videos bashing the inconsistencies in the sequel trilogy is one of the channel's highlights. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how you rework this one

[@stevemcgroob4446]

I like to think that the post sequel galaxy is balkanized into dozens of competing governments rather than reuniting into a singlular new new republic.

[@jay_vng]

I admire your ability to rationally discuss what can’t be analysed in any way, essentially because there’s nothing to analyse: the writing of these films is so amazingly poor that it hurts. The prequels might have had many flaws, but the overall grandiosity of the story kinda made up for it; the sequels, instead… well, it’s several hours of fancy lasers, explosions and empty characters. It’s such a pity that so much money went into them.

[@Fafnd]

The Prequels had the flaw of being rough drafts that weren't challenged or hammered into proper scripts. The sequels were hack improvisation, bloated, and didn't provide the time or attention to even tell a story. The sequels just threw random thoughts at the wall and tried to see what would stick. Leaving us the viewer without any coherency or connectivity between any of the scenes whatsoever.

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

@@Fafnd two words MYSTERY BOX

[@Fafnd]

@@SgtKaneGunlock which is great for say a mystery genre film. Unfortunately Star Wars is an action adventure with sprinkles of drama and romance. Round peg meets square hole situation that a competent storyteller or director would have avoided.

[@SuwinTzi]

I think the problem with the prequels is George Lucas is terrible at characters and dialogue, and he was trying to cram a massive story into 3 movies. Really the prequels could've been 5 movies or a TV series. Hell the 2003 Clone Wars miniseries helped flesh out Anakin's development and relationships with Padme and Obi-Wan, cause there just wasn't enough time.

[@SuwinTzi]

@@Fafnd rather than rough draft I think it was too big. An ancient conspiracy plots the downfall of a democratic republic via false flags attacks and manipulation of the legal process in order to genocide a monastic order of knights charged with protecting the same republic. Meanwhile the chosen one of a prophecy is found and said conspiracy plays upon the chosen ones fears to manipulate and corrupt into the conspiracy into one of the greatest villains of all time. That's something for for a multi episode TV series, really hard for a trilogy. Maybe Steven Spielberg or another director could've pulled it off but no one wanted to take George's baby. Hell like I said in my other comment the prequels was really 5 films; 1-3 and both seasons of 2003 Clone Wars.

[@Supersurfer12]

I didn't understand the arms dealer that was selling star fighters to both the First Order and the New Republic in TLJ. How are you able to sell 2 completely different weapons to a secret organization in the unknown regions and to a government downsizing its military?

[@codiak2680]

That is a prime example of when story writers believe they're smarter than they really are and don't think the transparent attempt of saying "Big Greedy Business is the real villain here" will be seen for the weak topical commentary it actually is. Especially ironic when it comes from Disney.

[@Jonnyg325]

Oh arms dealers get creative, a real life one armed both sides of the Iran-Iraq war

[@diegojose4173]

It would have made sense that they sold ships to the Resistance but not the First Order.

[@____Carnage____]

This also just makes you a huge target for both sides. If they discover that you’re selling weapons to each others enemies then they would try to use you to weaken the other by overcharging them for broken down garbage God that sounds like a better plot

[@EbonyManta]

My interpretation was that they sold weapons to both the Empire and the Rebellion. Or, alternatively, worked with weapons for the Empire, and once that fell (or close to it), they started doing business with the New Republic. Not necessarily the correct interpretation, but my stance on such things is, "If you want things to make sense, then canon is whatever makes sense to you."

[@richardsturges2736]

"No logical sequence of events to get from point A to B" Abrams' "writing" perfectly summed up.

[@pabonismygod]

Agreed on most points except for one: all nation-states and powers with a naval presence, regardless of how many elements and front deployments, will refer to these forces as "fleet" in singular on the whole, and specify "task forces" or "fleets" on the tactical organization level. Starfleet, for example, isn't just one "fleet", but its name is singular, composed of various squadrons on specific sectors which can move around as "fleets". A navy has a fleet composed of "fleets", if you will. The First Order was referring to the New Republic Fleet in that way, as well as that the main of its fleet within their Fleet (bear with me!) was on the Hosnian system. Why is it easy to confuse all of this? Well... bad writing, honestly.

[@paulh.9526]

I thing the point is, if the first order destroyed the fleet, who cares, there are many others out there. But if the first order destroyed the Fleet, how come they were all bunched up on a single planet/in a single system ? In either case, something is not right. I may be looking a little to deep into this.

[@shawngillogly6873]

Except that this was never clarified. If there were fleets fighting the First Order, why didn't they show up at the Resistance's call to arms? If they decided to kowtow to the Order, what changed their minds and caused them to commit to the Battle of Exogol? If they were of dubious loyalty, why wasn't the First Order watching them? What better way to bolster your fleet than commandeer vessels from surrendered governments? Nothing makes sense. On any level. It's like it was written by people without knowledge of history, tactics, or strategy. Oh wait.

[@boomstick7506]

Exactly, i do not know the naval breakdown, but in the US Army, four divisions maka a corps and four corps (marines only have one corps) make an army. The US Army is comprised of multiple armies.

[@paulh.9526]

@@boomstick7506 I'm not navy, but I think they are broken down by area. For example the British had the Home, Mediterranean, Pacific and Eastern fleets in 1945. Could be broken down by type if ship (Royal Navy Battle Cruiser fleet in WWI) This seams mostly based on geography, as pre-WW1 Russia had several fleets despite being much less of a naval power than Germany, which only had one (that I could find, perhaps a Costal fleet to contrast the High Seas Fleet).

[@BoisegangGaming]

@@shawngillogly6873 If Lando God-Damn Calarrissian (sp?) Showed up on your doorstep and said "hey want to fight the first order", would you be able to say no?

[@darthkai3621]

It’s simple! There’s no galactic government. It’s now a lawless galaxy full of warlords and lifeless worlds! Which it’ll be really interesting to explore in a tabletop Star Wars game

[@jujuplayboy]

The Galaxy : *goes to turmoil/war for a century* The Hotts : Time to collect the pieces, it's free real estate.

[@jujuplayboy]

@@silentecho92able Except that the Hutts don't exist anymore, because politics shall not exist under Disney's leadership. ^^ We're actually lucky that a New Republic existed long enough to get destroyed on-screen with the destruction of NotCoruscant.

[@NinjaMan47]

I think it really speaks to the lack of a plan or vision for the universe when Disney began the Sequel Trilogy. You can't just craft a story by committee and make it up as you go along.

[@ekszentrik]

i am not really a fan of Star Wars, but if there's anything certain is that the OT and especially the prequels made the world feel big and organic, like it could be an actual snapshot of life somewhere, whereas the sequels felt claustrophobic and like a mere work of fiction which had little thought put into it.

[@mrhyde4732]

Little did we know, the prequels are just an in universe fan fic by palpatine that was discovered after his death and put on television as a comedy skit. They just forgot to edit it to be funnier.

[@Alec11_43]

One of the worst things about this war is that there is no reason given why this can’t happen all over again. Heck, the novelization acknowledges that they have no idea if Palpatine will return once more since they never properly explained it. At least Dark Empire gave a reason for that, not shrugging and telling the audience in supplementary material they don’t know what’s going on.

[@PartigradeCannon]

The First Order probably conquered most of the galaxy but there were pockets of resistance. What annoys me is that the New Republic was supposedly using a more diffuse setup, where they funded and reinforced the local planetary fleets rather than making large, roaming fleets the norm. I would think that would make each world either harder to crack, or at least require the First Order fleets to concentrate their forces to overwhelm the defenders, which would in turn slow down their advance because they've got to pull an overwhelming amount of force to defeat the defending worlds.

[@FlipDarkFuture]

That is essentially what they did. My main issue is that they never really showed that the New Republic had remnant militias and groups still operating after Starkiller Base fired. Star Wars Resistance actually shows this to be the case.

[@emberfist8347]

How could they do that in mrere hours when they were a fringe group.

[@emberfist8347]

@@FlipDarkFuture Shouldn't need outside material for your movie to work.

[@emberfist8347]

@@Commodore22345 It would be more likely to be the opposite for the First Order with the Outer Rim the main part of their territory while the Core maintained its independence. The First Order is supposedly based out of the Unknown Regions in the galactic West so if they wanted to take over the galaxy, they would have to start with the Outer Rim and work their way inwards while the Core-based Republic and Empire had to work their way outwards from the Core.

[@FlipDarkFuture]

@@emberfist8347 Because they weren't a fringe group?

[@goldenhorde6944]

The "IRL recontextualization" method you use is an extremely useful tool and I'm disappointed more writers haven't learnt to use it. I'm actually kinda surprised you didn't employ it for your video on Star Citizen; The imperialization of the UPE would be like if during WW1 an American private in the army managed to reach the rank of General of the Armies, and used his influence to elect himself as the Prime Citizen of the USA, completely overturning congress and any other democratic institutions for generations to come, then in the 21st century his descendants are finally ousted from the throne of the Free American Empire, but for some reason they decide to keep the name and most of the imperial political structure.

[@Mike5Brown]

Good lord really? I love star citizen but every time I actually go into lore snippets, usually through BoredGamer channel which are excellently done, I just come away thinking what is this did they think about this at all?

[@michaelramon2411]

I would argue here that Templin missed the mark a bit on their IRL comparison. If you consider the Pacific "the world" rather than all of Earth, WWII's Pacific Theater kind of fits the ST's story. The main Allied fleet is obliterated in a single sneak attack. The Japanese unleash a meticulously-planned campaign that picks apart the majority of armed resistance and conquers millions of people in a matter of weeks, while crushing most of the ships the Allies can throw at them. The single American carrier fleet, which can expect no reinforcements, engages in hit-and-run attacks as they look for an opportunity. That opportunity arrives a mere six months into the war at the Battle of Midway, where the Japanese navy suffers severe losses. The Allies begin their first counteroffensive at Guadalcanal and proceed to wear down the primary Japanese air, naval and land forces through constant combat. By the one-year anniversary of Pearl Harbor, the Japanese had been essentially fought to a standstill, and most of the rest of the war was pushing them off of a thousand little fortified islands. It's not a perfect comparison, obviously, but it's a useful demonstration of how much you can actually fit into one year of war. And if the United States was not so big and so far away from Japan, it is difficult to see what could have stopped or reversed the Japanese advance.

[@goldenhorde6944]

@@michaelramon2411 Well no because the FO destroyed the entire Hosnian system and then immediately lost Starkiller, only to then conquer most of the Republic anyways. It would be like if instead the Japanese nuked multiple major cities across the West Coast, only for an Allied counterattack to miraculously cause their uranium reserves to implode, creating a huge crater on the outskirts of Tokyo, but the Japanese Emperor survives and conquers all of India, China, Australasia, and parts of America.

[@emberfist8347]

@@michaelramon2411 Except teh Japanese didn't obliterate our fleet. They destroyed a few battleships but our carriers were intact and won us the war. They neglected to destroy our dry docks or oil supplies too meaning all they did destroy was some obselete ships and awakened a sleeping giant filling it with a terrible resolve. Also using all of Earth is more fair as the pacific wasn't in a vacuum.

[@emberfist8347]

@@goldenhorde6944 And the Pearl Harbor analogy doesn't work as they didn't destroy our entire fleet in the Pacific or in the navy itself. They destoryed most of our battleships in the Pacific at the time but this led us to rely on aircraft carriers and this showed the battleships were obselete as Carriers could fill their role and then some (You couldn't have attacked Tokoyo like we did in the Doolittle Raid with a couple of battleships unless you wanted to uncomfortably close to the Japanese home islands) and one thing that most accounts of the attack leave out is they only destroyed the ships but not the drydocks or our oil reserves or anything like that. So all they did was minorly inconvinece operations at Pearl when they could have rendered the entire facility a smoldering ruin.

[@jonbaxter2254]

The fact that the 5 planets destroyed is never brought again bothers me a lot. Why do it, something so massive, if nothing was to come from it?

[@worksv3]

They did it because they wanted a Death Star ‘but cooler’. They wanted to hold it up and say “see? Our death star is cooler ‘cause it can destroy *five* planets at the same time!”

[@dustinjones7458]

Imagine if we got a scene where Lando was trying to convince people why they should fight the first order, and to convince them, he takes them to the 'Hosnian Graveyard'. That would be a strong emotional scene and link up to why so many people were willing to fight.

[@copterinx0468]

A couple of points: -in Hux's speech, "remaining systems" may refer to everything not yet destroyed, i.e. all star systems other than the Hosnian system, rather than being in reference to conquered systems -another possible explanation for the First Order dreadnought attacking D'Qar's base before the ship is if the First Order expected there to be powerful anti-orbital weapons systems on the ground that could attack the First Order fleet. The Resistance ships in orbit were clearly not a major threat, but it is possible that D'Qar might secretly have a weapon similar to the ion cannon which singlehandedly won the battle of Hoth (if not for that ion cannon, the rebellion would've been destroyed there and then) -the reason why the whole galaxy showed up at Exegol is clearly Lando. Apparently he is VERY charismatic.

[@geofff.3343]

This is what happens when you just try to create emotions and bank on peoples' nostalgia. It's not striving to be coherent, it's striving to create a feeling. Instead of structuring a world where the narrative can lead to those moments that give that feeling they just do the thing and expect you to have the response.

[@tsamoka6496]

"The First Order, nothing more than a cheap joke. A poor copy of the Empire, that spent 30 years preparing for a war that they pretty much lost immediately." Yep, that just about sums up the entire sequel trilogy in one brief statement. I've seen crappy 5k-word fanfictions written by grade-schoolers that were better then the pile of bantha shite that is the new cannon. Just how bad is it? That sparklepire garbage TWILIGHT is better then eps 7-9. That's how bad it is. =^x^=

[@trevynlane8094]

Agreed. As bad as Twilight was, at least it had a plot that made sense in that world.

[@capitalh1895]

@@trevynlane8094 internal consistency goes a long way!

[@tiffanywyatt5137]

The first order destroyed an entire star system.

[@wilberwhateley7569]

Yup - the writers were lazy and relied on brand recognition instead of a solid story to draw an audience: the end result was a garbage pile of a trilogy that plays out like a bad fanfic rather than something crafted by professionals…

[@trevynlane8094]

@@tiffanywyatt5137 and? Destroying one system in a galaxy with thousands of systems means very little, especially if the system isn't the home system of any sapient species. All it does is stiffen resistance, not lessen it.

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

War is an element through which new projects and new technologies come about. Often the world after a war looks wildly different from before the war, and not specifically due to the war's destruction or the winners and losers. Perhaps that's one of the primary reasons why wars are such historical benchmarks.

[@patrickkenyon2326]

In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed-- they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The Cuckoo clock! ---Orson Wells

[@lordtazzman3140]

The book The Great Deluge covers this so well dealing with WWI.

[@tbotalpha8133]

Except not really? For most of history, humanity's knowledge and technology advanced slowly. Knowledge, and philosophy concerning that knowledge, was developed largely by idle and curious gentry and priests. While technology was developed by skilled craftsmen, passing their skills from master to apprentice. There was no feeling of "progression" among these people, that they were contributing to some grand march forwards for civilization. The gentry and priests wrote down slightly more accurate observations and theories, the craftsmen made their crafts to higher and higher standards, and the world changed glacially. Wars, meanwhile, were largely fought with the same weapons and armour that one's grandfather fought with. Sometimes literally. Because no warlord had any concept of developing new and innovative weaponry for the next war. The army you had was the army you fought with. You might change training regimes, reform organisational schemas, and form alliances to secure additional manpower. But no-one was developing new swords, or castles, or trebuchets mid-war. Victory came from being better at using the resources at your disposal, than your enemy. In fact, wars tended to cause horrible setbacks for the development of knowledge and technology. Libraries containing precious knowledge were often looted and destroyed. Studious gentry and priests were killed, as were skilled craftsmen, taking all their knowledge with them. In the pre-modern era (which remember, encompasses *most of human history*), knowledge and technology actually advanced much faster in times and places of peace and economic prosperity. Peace, because the educated people weren't constantly dying or fleeing. And prosperity, because that meant more resources that could be channelled towards scholarly pursuits and projects incorporating new technologies. That, and stronger trade connections allowed knowledge and technology to flow and spread across a much wider area, increasing the odds of innovation.

[@patrickkenyon2326]

@@tbotalpha8133 Wars have driven technology for centuries. The Romans adopted the Gladius after meeting the Spanish. They increased the armor on their helmets to counter the falx. More recently, the American civil war introduced rifled muskets and the minie ball. Ww1 and WW2 pushed the development of aircraft and armored fighting vehicles. Look at the improvement in warships from WW1 to WW2. Many improvements were a direct result of warfare.

[@tbotalpha8133]

@@patrickkenyon2326 Meanwhile Roman architecture, engineering and mathematics was overwhelmingly the product of peace-time infrastructure and civil development projects. The Colosseum, the Circus Maximus, the Pantheon, the innumerable aqueducts - these structures were not military works. They were built in peace-time, for civil purposes. Then there's the trade networks and infrastructure, which required the organisation of staggering quantities of manpower and resources. Or the sophisticated Roman legal system - now the foundation of all Western legal systems - which developed as a means of effectively administrating the empire during peacetime. Or Roman arts, of statuary, mosaics, theatre, poetry, jewellery, pottery, painting, and on and on and on. Furthermore, Rome was, at the height of its empire, the greatest trade hub in the Mediterranean. Rome had access to resources and knowledge from every Mediterranean state, as well as some outside the Mediterranean like Britannia. Rome's ability to develop and innovate was because of its wealth, trade connections, and long-lasting peace in its core territories. Not because it was constantly fighting wars. Sure, warfare tends to lead to better ways of waging war, as veteran soldiers and generals figure out what works, and pass that knowledge on to others. But saying that "wars have driven technology for centuries" ignores the vast, VAST amount of knowledge and technology throughout history, which had fuck-all to do with warfare. Natural philosophy began with people studying the stars, studying the behaviour of matter and forces, studying wildlife, studying human anatomy, and bringing it all together to devise universal, all-encompassing theories about the world we live in. That knowledge, the theories developed from it, and the experience of practising natural philosophy itself, laid the groundwork for modern science and scientific practises. Y'know - the stuff that enabled all of that fancy military technology you fetishize?

[@nosorab3]

I'd argue the Clone Wars had the best and most comprehensive background detail (theaters, stories, goals, and outcomes) but with a relatively weak cassus belli (cause for war) while the Galactic Civil War had the best cassus belli (the Empire is evil and run by a malevolent wizard) but little in the way of canon background detail. The FO v Resistance War has no background detail and no cassus belli.

[@Duskof81]

Gosh, what I would do for a Galactic Civil War animated series. Expanding and exploring the years between episodes of the OT. I know that has been done by comics from both the old and new EU, but seeing is believing.

[@lumbagoboi1649]

​@@Duskof81 ikr. I really want to see more of Luke's journey since basically everything since the original trilogy has tried to destroy him as a character.

[@613aristocrat]

@@Duskof81 Ever read Splinter of the Mind's Eye? Or try Timothy Zahn's Hand of the Emperor novels. He gave up when the Yuuzhan Vong war thing started to happen and went back to flesh out parts that he liked. I didn't much like the YV war either, so his novels were a lot of fun.

[@ravenRedwake]

Also when you realize that The Force has more in common with the gods of Chaos from 40k, then the endless stream of wars and conflict is patently “the laughter of thirsting gods”

[@christopherbravo1813]

it really doesn't though?

[@eightball6219]

Compared to Legends just getting the Empire off Coruscant took around 12 years and even then they weren't done. The Empire, now Imperial Remnant was scattered in the Outer Rim and Unknown Regions (with small exceptions of Imperial holdout worlds like Cardia) had warlords carving out mini empires with whatever forces they could muster up (and they weren't in short supply. The Imperial Navy had plenty of Star Destroyers, Victory Star Destroyers, dreadnoughts and other ships to comprise their fleets) and sometimes they dug up a secret weapon hidden by the Emperor (Eye of Palpatine, Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, cloning facilities, cloaking, etc.). The Rebels, now New Republic struggled to maintain their new government being constantly attacked at all times by various factions trying to fill the void left by the Empire or were taking down the newest Imperial Admiral or Warlord trying to defeat the Rebels. The New Republic's fight was never done and while they might of slacked a bit during the quiet periods they never stopped completely or were completely unprepared when a new foe showed up like the "canon" New Republic and the Imperial Remnant (who later become the Fel Empire and the Reborn Sith Empire) was never this confusing how they actually gained power while being completely useless. Point is new canon sucks

[@Jonnyg325]

Most of the EU can be summed up by "Palpatine was crazy prepared, and also crazy". Clones of him? He was growing them so he could move his consciousness into them when his current body died. Sun crusher? The Maw facility was cut off from communications and ordered to build whatever superweapons they came up with. Eclipse? Being built before the Death Star blew. Galaxy gun? That one came out of nowhere actually. Eye of Palpatine? Well actually I think he forgot about it at some point but made well before the death star. Isard's dreadnought? Buried years before, somehow...

[@InnesMorrison]

while most of your point is correct the Legends New Republic actually liberated Coruscant in 7ABY and had mostly uncontested control of the galaxy after 12ABY. but those first 8 years were a trial by fire.

[@christopherbravo1813]

"But Legends has a bunch of random shit I don't like so it's automatically worse and CoreyLoses should make a Disney Star Wars mod for Empire at War."

[@mathisntmybestsubject8440]

"'The First Order - New Republic War Doesn't Work'?! No kidding!" - Everyone with a working brain/cursory knowledge of Star Wars

[@emberfist8347]

Or just how big space is.

[@khandimahn9687]

The original trilogy wasn't deep, but did enough to give us a sense of what was going on. The prequels were full of context, even if they were not well executed. The sequels are a mess - bad story, bad story telling, so much just didn't make sense. I feel for the writers of various media that have to accept the sequels as canon, and have to figure out ways to justify them.

[@Croz89]

The scene in ROTJ with the second death star construction issues is a good example of giving context. It showed that the empire were not unlimited in their financial and technological abilities, those in charge of construction pushing for more workers and more funding and being met with resistance. It also shows an empire less confident than it was two episodes ago, rushing to plug a gap in its capabilities, acutely aware that it was in a more vulnerable position to an increasing rebel threat.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

@Flying Kick Another reason for why it failed was because there were two different creators working on it, pulling it in different directions, making a mess of things; say what you want about George Lucas, but at least he had a consistent vision.

[@jonn2191]

What did the War accomplish? $4.5 billion in box office sales. You don’t need plot to profit off of nostalgia and explosions

[@sketchbook8177]

I think when Hux says “cherished fleet”, this could refer to some kind of capital defense fleet, like the Citadel Defense Fleet in Mass Effect. When he says “all remaining systems will bow” I think this refers to all the systems in the Republic not destroyed by Star Killer.

[@incap6038]

It's almost like none of this was planned and was all rushed out, recycling older concepts without understanding their significance and relevance. Or sometimes, out right contempt for them.

[@mechanwhal6590]

They KNEW this would piss off the true fans. They did it anyway. Why? Money. That’s all ANYONE cares about these days. George Lucas should have NEVER sold Star Wars. It made him a few bucks, sure. But he lost control. *No amount of money is worth that.*

[@Hammern28]

It was written purely based on nostalgia. Nothing makes sense in all this, it is just adding explosions, funny one liners, this and that and... that's it.

[@ZontarDow]

The sequel trilogy will be remembered as the biggest wasted opportunity in the history of Hollywood.

[@Foreign0817]

*cough* *cough* Justice League.

[@ZontarDow]

@@Foreign0817 Justice League can be tried again later. Star Wars can't.

[@darkleome5409]

Game of thrones though

[@Foreign0817]

@@ZontarDow Have hope. And patience. You never know...

[@ZontarDow]

@@Foreign0817 hope for what, something worst taking that title? Disney fixing this mess is well outside of the realm of possibility.

[@dy031101]

Rian Johnson/JJ Abrams: I want to see this scene here. Writer(s): But it doesn't make sense here. Rian Johnson/JJ Abrams: *I WANT TO SEE THIS SCENE HERE.* Everyone else: (Facepalm)

[@joaobarrosleal]

I agree with you. Just two points regarding Hux’ speech: 1. I think fleet means navy. Even the opening crawl of ESB makes reference to the “Imperial Starfleet”. Which I personally prefer to navy; 2. In the novel Bloodlines we learn that the New Republic is divided into Centrist, mostly Core and human worlds that favor a strong central government, and Populist, favoring a less powerful central government. The Centrists were very much supporting the FO. Prior to the attack on Hosnian the seceded. So I imagine they willingly joined the FO with “remaining systems” being the populist and independent planets. Still a whole lot left to explain

[@FormerBunsenBurner]

I don't think it's that all centrists were FO sympathizers, but that all FO sympathizers were centrists.

[@joaobarrosleal]

@@FormerBunsenBurner That’s true, though I imagine he was in the minority. I wouldn’t be shocked if some Centrists were members of the Sith Eternal

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Regarding point #2, it is not a good movie that requires viewers to read a novel to understand it.

[@joaobarrosleal]

@@MonkeyJedi99 I agree, the movie should’ve been more clear. While Star Wars is a multimedia franchise most movie goers won’t read the books

[@bloodysimile4893]

If the movies aren't good, why should I read the books that is just used explain what is happening in the movies? That the current problem with morden star wars. people may said that the cgi clones wars saved the prequel, but the cgi only expanded the material that was already place there by prequel.

[@stretchmtsa5106]

Trying to find meaning in anything that happens in the sequel trilogy was your first mistake. The more you look into it and think about it, the problems and brokenness of it compounds massively.

[@Ptaaruonn]

It's really hard to justify and find reason in 3 movies that make zero sense. That being said, excelent work as always, this channel is awesome.

[@cursedapostate3705]

At this point they should give the Templin Institute crew the reigns over the next few Star Wars Movies

[@FuryanJedi13]

If only!

[@daniels7907]

A 25 minute recap of just how horrifically bad the writing and directing of the sequel trilogy was. If you drill down, even the individual characters' stories really possess no more coherence than the larger war they are thrown into. Things happen merely to setup visuals onscreen. Unlike the OT and the prequels, there is no surrounding narrative. We never actually even see the New Republic in any form except for the moment of Hosnian Prime's destruction. So we have no sense of what is stake. Likewise, the First Order appears to be ideological, but we don't get told what that ideology really is besides blowing things up. The incredibly condensed timeline, with TFA and TLJ literally occurring within the space of just *two days* only creates even more problems. Was Poe making irrational decisions because he had only just escaped from being captured and tortured, only to then have to go into battle, *twice!?* When did he even get to sleep? Was he pumped full of stimulants? Leia apparently found time to change outfits several times within the same period. "Admiral" Holdo couldn't even be bothered to change out of her cocktail dress and into a uniform to lead a total rout of her surviving forces, much less actually inform her personnel what the plan was? RoS then skips ahead, but it's really just a bunch of disjointed action sequences that prove that the previous two movies were utterly pointless. Whereas in TLJ Leia couldn't even get anybody in the galaxy to answer the comm when she was begging for her peoples' lives, in RoS Lando is apparently able to make a few calls and summon *every available warship in the galaxy!* Says a lot about who had more likes on Forcebook I guess. Meanwhile, Palpatine is pretty much just there, creepy chanting choir and all, to chew on the scenery and throw Force Lightning around randomly. It was all a mess. There was *no* narrative, just a bunch of vignettes.

[@Cailus3542]

This is always what bugged me in TLJ. TFA seemed set on setting up this conflict. The New Republic fleet was mentioned and we got a preview with the excellent X-wing introduction on that random planet, while the main players (Snoke and Luke Skywalker, the Sith and Jedi leaders respectively) were only mentioned or shown in passing. It seemed like TFA was going to escalate into TLJ, a broader conflict between a weakened New Republic (akin to the US after the Pearl Harbor attack) and the resurgent First Order. And it never happened. There was no escalation. The New Republic never mattered. The Jedi never mattered. Both organisations were wiped out and never really resurfaced. All of the setup in TFA was unceremoniously thrown in the bin. It truly was aggravating.

[@davidbuckley2435]

That is the thing that most infuriated me about the sequels too. While I liked where TLJ was taking the idea of the Force and the Jedi, it felt like the odd-one-out of the Trilogy. It really feels like each film was taken from a different Trilogy pitch each time. TFA was from a rehash trilogy hitting the best fanservice points from the previous films. TLJ was from a trilogy that focussed more on the idea of what it means to be a Jedi while our heroes flee from a vengeful FO. ROS was from a trilogy that had built up the FO as an oppressive occupier and things were reaching a boiling point. A complete hot mess whichever way you cut it. This kids is why, when you know have a trilogy to make, you sit down and ensure you have *at the very least* a bare-bones story arc for your trilogy before you even begin pre-production on film 1 of 3. The Original Trilogy had the defeat of the Empire and the redemption of Vader, the Prequels had the rise of Palpatine and the fall of the Republic. The Sequels had... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@minicle426]

Really, the Sequel Trilogy ended up just being a pissing contest between JJ and Rian...

[@dustinm2717]

Honestly, the thing that crippled the sequels the most wasn't necessarily the writing but how each film spent more time pretending the last one never happened and retconing everything than trying to actually tell any kind of cohesive story arc they sabotaged themselves by not following through with what they already setup, instead just erasing it to try appease angry fans and making it so much worse in the process If they had followed through with whatever story plan they had when only TFA had existed, would it have been a great trilogy idk, but it would have been better than what we got at least it would have been a story not 3, hell even if they just followed through with TLJ instead of doing whatever TRoS was on it would have been better Questionable writing is one thing, but a lack of cohesion and an overuse of retconing makes it so much worse, and they effectively made 3 chunks from separate alternative timelines This is why you write an outline of what the entire set first and stick to it

[@mizu7662]

@@dustinm2717 What were they supposed to follow up on from TLJ, though? It literally left the Resistance as being small enough for the entirety of it to fit on the Falcon and residing in a galaxy of cowards who literally all completely refused to answer the call to come fight the First Order. They barely had enough people to take on the Principality of Sealand, let alone a galaxy scale galactic empire. If nothing else they would have had to bare minimum retcon the shit out of that nonsense so that the Resistance either always had more forces that just weren't able to get there in time (or maybe reveal the transmitter was busted so nobody heard the call of the Resistance as opposed to the entire galaxy being cowards, or something) so that there even could be a Resistance to fight the Last Order with. There was just no viable way to win with what they had left and no real way to explain how they could possibly rebuild in a galaxy so completely cowed by the First Order despite it going from catastrophic failure to catastrophic failure as starkiller base was destroyed and Snoke died alongside his uber mega capital ship (that side material states was actually the legal capital of the First Order) getting destroyed with him. If losing their ace in the hole super weapon, losing their backup mega ship super weapon, losing their head of state, and losing their capital 'planet' in a single week didn't make people think the First Order could be resisted then what the hell blow against them over the time skip possibly could make those sheep think they had a shot and start showing up for Resistance recruitment drives? Abrams could either spend most of the series finale explaining how the Resistance was even a viable faction while trying to make Hux and Kylo Ren intimidating again or he could make some shit up in an unsatisfying manner to make it so the conflict was possible and that the 'face' of the antagonist faction wasn't some guy that had already been beaten by Rey twice before. It is really hard to put into words just how badly Rian Johnson fucked things up by having part 2 of a 3 part series tie up or burn down almost every single available plot thread the first movie set up while not really creating any new ones of its own. Maybe think of it as the 3rd movie being a gourmet meal the morning crew of a 5 star restaurant had to make only for them to show up to find out the night crew did no prep work on fancy soup stock or anything that takes a long time to make, turned off the fridge in a heat wave, and left its door open so now every single bit of perishable food in the restaurant has gone bad and all slightly exposed food is crawling with insects. So they are scrambling to make something 5 star worthy out of nothing but some canned vegetables the heat and flies couldn't get and they have to whip it together from scratch in 30 minutes.

[@danielkiran8174]

TFA already ruined everything. New Republic? Gone. Jedi? Gone. Empire? Somehow its already back and better than ever. Sith? Somehow they are also back.

[@LordCommander-ui2fw]

Let me guess, come the 4th, we’re going to get an entire High Command Mini-Series dedicated to the New Republic/First Order War reimagined, aren’t we? Well, if that’s the case, sign me up and issue me my armor and blaster!

[@Yingyanglord1]

5th

[@Flyer07]

“[…]there is potentially a justification here, something I am not aware of that makes all of these choices makes sense.” I was hanging on to that hope regarding these movies for the longest time. *Spoiler Alert!* There is never a valid justification for anything that happens. Just consume product and be excited for next product!

[@nintendofan1749]

I’m a simple man I see Star Wars video by Templin Institute I click

[@flyboymb]

I wrote a small fanfiction about how at least TFA could have been written better a year after it came out. Rey grew up on the ruins of Coruscant. The Empire conducted a scorched earth campaign on the core and inner rim as they were driven out of those worlds. The New Republic has been working to rebuild industry on a galactic scale, and has finally reclaimed a planet to its pre-devastation glory: Corellia. The First Order, far from having a planet killing ball, instead is an insurgency that engages mostly in raids and massacres on the poorly defended worlds near their space. They happen upon a game changing substance however; a compound that becomes incredibly explosive when it decelerates from hyperspace. The First Order gathers old Star Destroyers which survived the Battle of Endor. These ships, and their aging commanders, would redeem themselves for failing to destroy the Rebellion and protect the Emperor. One takes off into hyperspace towards Corellia, where the New Republic government has chosen as their new capital and where a celebration of the successful reclamation was taking place. On the bridge, an elderly Rae Sloane laments that this isn't a redemption, it is a purge of the Old Guard who had constantly urged restraint to the younger and more zealous leadership like Hux. She looked at the picture of a young man, her only remaining family who she had hidden in the stormtrooper corps where he was a mask and a number instead of a Sloane. She is told that they would exit hyperspace in 10 seconds. Rae stood to accept her fate. The blue panorama of hyperspace turning into the streaks of light then the surface of a planet filling the bridge window. On Corellia, the announcement of the rebirth of the planet had just been made. Two conspicuously empty seats are those of Senator and retired General Solo. The Star Destroyer appears above the assembly and immediately emits an unnatural and blinding light. An explosion large enough to crack the planet to its core occurs. A molten and fragmented blob is all that remains of one of the oldest inhabited worlds in the galaxy.

[@Hugh-Jassoul]

I’d like to see a Battlestar Galactica-like series set in the Star Wars universe about the New Republic fleet scrambling to fight back against the First Order.

[@thatotherguy8138]

The LACK of thought that went into the Sequel Trilogy is truly astounding.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Well that goes for just about everything in the Sequel Trilogy...

[@Jamesthemaze]

Very true

[@TemplinInstitute]

Hard disagree. The characters from Episode 7 & 8 save the whole trilogy for me. Plus the direction in those movies, and to a lesser extent Episode 9, is the best of the whole saga. Watch the scene where the Millennium Falcon arrives on Crait and tell me you don't get hyped up.

[@redhausser7492]

@@TemplinInstitute I can tell I saw the Falcon arrive at Crait and felt nothing, as the bad movies sucked every drop of entertaiment from me.

[@razorback8300]

@The Templin Institute just wondering was the comment you made sarcastic or a your actual opinion? In my opinion ( as well as many others ) the sequel triology was pretty bad specially episode 9 with making vaders sacrifice useless, stupid new star destroyer design ( or one destroyer 10x bigger ) as well as the poor pacing , fake outdeaths as well as the stupid reason why the resistance won etc. made episode 9 one of the worst Star Wars movies

[@whee38]

the sequel trilogy is a shameless cash grab that goes to such stupid levels to take the politics out of war. it's just so sad and pretty much killed the new canon for me

[@daepappy]

Aw yes a sequel to some of my favorite content of yours, really happy to see you guys continue this series!

[@SirAroace]

One of the biggest sins of the 'sequels' is that it spits in the face of the New Republic, and by extinction the legacy of every hero and sacrifice in the first 6 films.

[@xoltoss]

You put far more thought into this in under a year than Disney has since they purchased Lucasfilm.

[@darthmalgus9267]

My soul has gained a bit of peace, I needed this. Thank you.

[@evernight1405]

The Star Wars Disney comics are Canon as well and in them, The First Order has the strategy of bombarding a planet into Oblivion if any from of the resistance is found. That would have them to keep some planets in line out of fear alone but many more would just fight and resist harder if one act of Defiance is enough to for them to burn a world to ash.

[@jaieregilmore971]

That a dumb plan you would think they learn from there predecessors to be better but they giving the empire a bad rep.

[@evernight1405]

@@jaieregilmore971 In the comic three planets, two are shown but bombarded into Oblivion with he last. One not being show likely because it a established world. Hux burn one world because there was resistance communications that the first order picked up, another burn because Kylo has aspeech after conquering a world but because a small group interrupted it and try to assassinate him he decides burn the whole Planet out of spite and the last one was Mom Calamari with the Resistance going here needed a new Fleet left with some Mom Calamarians with them, leaving a family of Quarren and the world to the 'merciful' hands of the First Order. The First Order likely destroyed any Planet they took over for the slightest misstep, or because they like the sight of a burning World from orbit. Why do they want those dead star Destroyers in the ROS if they can burn world on the fly?!

[@wandererdream9710]

@@evernight1405 At lest the Empire left something to ruled afterwards, they just burn everything and move on to the next world.

[@emberfist8347]

That plan wouldn't work as the Empire tried to rule through fear and it backfired spectaularly. They just got everyone to join the Rebels.

[@ZM7241994]

If this conflict is lacking a name, then I suggest "War of Mutual Incompetence" as I think it is very fitting.

[@leobezard5998]

"this is how the story dies, not with your shout, not with your tears, but with your silence"- Darrow (from the 3rd book of the series Red Rising, Morningstar)

[@LelouchVee]

Having not yet watched the second part, here's how I originally tried to recontextualize the events of TFA and LJ back when I still had hope for the sequels: Both First Order and the New Republic are essentially warlord states akin to those in 1920s China. They fight for 'control' and 'survival', but neither of them are the galactic powers they set themselves up as. LJ hint at the fact that a lot of the planets only pay lip service to them, and the galaxy at that point is essentially made up of independent planet-states. This explains how their epic battles are set in the literal middle of nowhere and stakes are so low nobody in the galaxy really bothers to support the Resistance, which is supposedly the only force fighting for freedom.

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

Is the First Order the only post-Empire Imperial faction? What's to stop a Second Order, or a "Dread Remnant," from continuing the war? Not all wars end cleanly, certainly not all wars to the death.

[@Iianator]

Yeah why couldn't empire remnants come in and overthrow the first order

[@MonkeyJedi99]

I'll wait for the Fourth Order. By then, the House of Mouse might have grown a clue.

[@dustinjones7458]

A lot of Imperials literally merged with the New Republics bureaucracy. Presumably they are still a part of it, which might explain why the war seems so lopsided-they essentially arranged things to destroy the NR and take it over. Even afterwards, they can say they were on the winning side.

[@donovan5656]

This channel offers the most in-depth shade against the sequel trilogy, and I love it.

[@fum2121]

In regards to the lack of contexts from Ep 8, I think it's pretty clear that the writers focused on jokes and homages instead of a story.

[@xenon8117]

8:24 I don’t think they understood what the terms “resistance” and “rebellion” means. 17:38 First Order, use a turbolaser and blast the forces outside the door. Hoth had a shield generator, what’s the excuse here? Oh right, spectacle.

[@EyeStorrm]

To me, what ruined it the most were Abrams's obsession with mystery box and OT nostalgia as well as Johnson's blatant wish to do his own thing and not wanting to be held back by Abrams's stupid mystery box.

[@TheWhiteDragon3]

One good thing that can be said in praise of the Sequel trilogy is that it all happens so incredibly fast that it's basically a blip in the timeline. You may not be able to un-write it all or de-canonize it, but you can make it nearly irrelevant in future projects.

[@KillerOrca]

Easier done than said honestly. Just “yeah it wasn’t important it was a year of shit” and boom

[@RSIxidor]

One more possibility for why Snoke dedicated so many resources chasing down the fleet: Hubris. He wanted to be there personally for the destruction of high-ranking commanders, and forcing Kylo to be involved with what he assumed would be the death of Kylo's mom is something he likely thought would break him and cement him in the dark side further. This is not a rational decision but it mirrors other irrational decisions made by villains in Star Wars, such as the lack of fleet protection for DS1, the Emperor assuming he could turn Luke on DS2, etc.

[@CoolMyron]

yeah but he still decicated his MSD and like 10 star destoryers. He could have taken something way smaller for just one ship.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@CoolMyron It was 30 actually, no less! And they lost 20 in the ramming scene... So yes, the very definition, of overkill.

[@jaieregilmore971]

You what weird why didn’t Snoke order a border party consisted of First order commandos,Kylo and the knights of Ren take over the ship killed everyone and captured Leia base on the FO fleets and Size they can.

[@emberfist8347]

@@jaieregilmore971 Or if you are going send that many ships why keep up the chase and not just send half the fleet to jump into hyperspace and exit in front of the enemy fleet to cut off their escape route?

[@jaieregilmore971]

@@emberfist8347 Also have those fleets move in front of the mega Star destroyer to make a blockade around the resistance ship and bombard them.

[@benmacklin3531]

After watching The Force Awakens, I can remember sitting there thinking "So wait, Leia is a rogue politician waging a proxy war with a private army against a presumably sovereign government?"

[@christopherbravo1813]

isn't current dayism great?

[@reganator5000]

I feel like a reasonable amount of backstory could have solved the initial issues- here's my example of a storyline: The New Republic tried restoring the previous republic, as was the stated mission of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. After all, the senate was only actually disbanded 4 years prior to the fall of the empire, so they re-implemented it, and restored the position of supreme chancellor as a position selected by the senate. But this caused a) initial civil unrest, possibly triggering the relocation of the capital b) the emergence of 'The First Order'. Outwardly, The First Order is essentially a political party representing worlds that proved either ultimately loyal to the Empire's ideals, who suffered significant losses during the Clone Wars, or who suffered significant losses at the hands of the rebellion and advocates for upkeep and modernisation of the Empire's military assets to allow the republic to face outside threats. You can keep palpatine/Snoke being a sith behind the first order, have him take the position of Supreme Chancellor (which explains what his rank actually means, given it's so similar), and specifically claim to be someone from Coruscant who was injured during the seperatist attack on the capital (using his fake facial injury for something!). He can have a power base on Coruscant, and work off the obvious economic hardship that would be caused by the sudden loss of employment for millions of well-off beauracrats, senatorial aids and so on (that's not a plot line that has any real paralells with modern political movements, but it fits events and makes your political scene look less like a cardboard cutout). This fixes a few problems- Snoke wanting to go after Hosnian first makes at least some more sense, given he's trying to appear somewhat legitimate and can claim to have found evidence that Hosnian et al were arming the resistance military (and, more importantly, 'the new republic lies to the galaxy, whilst secretly arming a new confederacy!'- the nod to american history in that slightly modified line is more of a nose breaking headbutt, so you probably don't need the audience to even remember what the droid government was called in the clone wars). It would also solve the issues around the Republic fleet- most of the republic fleet stays loyal to Snoke once he wipes out the senate, and the obvious rebel alliance fleet elements would also be the most sensible ones to have been stationed at the capital if the new republic had been worried about the possibility of a coup by the fleets wider leadership and can be wiped out in the initial attack. Also it'd make for interesting paralells between Snoke and Palpatine, which might at least have made the 'they're literally the same dude' twist a bit more foreshadowed.

[@otakurt1149]

Also of important note, if there are free worlds and if they have republic fleets or planetary defense forces or hell even random bands of pirates or militias across the galaxy are out there, wouldn't they be actively fighting the first order? Defending their respective planets or be under siege doing so? When Lando made that call, that many ships could somehow afford to leave their systems, defensive formations and somehow from across the galaxy find their way to exegol, without alerting or getting intercepted by the first order that allegedly controls much of the galaxy already??? Wouldn't that mean every single free world would be left open and vulnerable as the Resistance, Remnants of the New Republic Navy as well as the whoever else came to exegol put all their forces into a single battle? And them somehow they still were able to conduct a galaxy wide insurrection that by and large overthrew the first order everywhere even tho the vast majority if not all of ships were in exegol? And on the part of the first order wouldn't they notice a sudden large movement of ships across the galaxy and move to intercept??? Wouldn't they attack them en route or the planets they left undefeated when they went to exegol to fight. I swear the deployment of forces in this war makes absolutely zero sense, from a galaxy wide republic navy just evaporating over night, to first order ships being across the galaxy in a day to the entire galaxy moving to exegol in basically no time ignoring the consequences of leaving the entire galaxy front open (and that's even if we can call it a front because I don't know what the fuck is going on in this war)

[@uzunaruMelonness]

The First Order seems to own a small portion of the galaxy. And the borders are rather unknown during the First Order/Resistance Conflict as it fluctuates within their time. (Yes, I rather call it a Conflict than a War) The First Order deludes itself into thinking that it can reclaim the galaxy. The navy is lacking in structure and proper logistics. Some ships from the fleet of the First Order are scattered among the different locations. Many of the systems conquered, lack a sufficient force to repel them. The New Republic ignored this fringe group. They see the threat as a mere nuisance compared to their own problems, which are closer. Problems that include the restructuring of government. And so The Resistance took up arms. Scarce in funding, they adapt to guerilla tactics. But there are strategic failures during the Conflict. And the number of ships dwindled. Eventually, The First Order fell and this Conflict comes to an end. Likely with parts of the galaxy still not knowing about it.

[@iconicnzz6414]

I feel like it's worth noting that coincidentally (or rather, not so much) the quality of the New Republic War matches the quality of the films as each progress. As it begins, you see logical decisions, engaging conflict, and tangible stakes. But as you get into The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker, you see increasingly flawed logic, a lack of stakes, and an overall feel of disjointed apathy for the story as a whole. It becomes painfully obvious that the writers are less interested in crafting a story than they are in just making a quick buck.

[@whyjnot420]

Given the lack of information, as well as the lack of quality to the movies, this becomes the Dark Age of A Galaxy Far Far Away.

[@rakisuzuki-burke4148]

6:38 "Now that isn't a perfect parallel" No, it's beautiful.

[@ryank5424]

"Can we do it better?" he asks, of course he can. Looking forward to it.

[@Kubinda12345]

I generally agree with you. The movies don't make a good picture of the overall war and especially the Last Jedi made a huge mess out of it. Not only with the war's speed - conquering the galaxy within a day - but also because it made the war too localized and not feel like a galaxy wide war. However the books provide some background info which has to be kept in mind. The Galactic Republic - the one that Palpatine toppled - wasn't exactly a unified country but more like something between the EU and UNO. Palpatine's Empire tried to turn it into a unified state but once it was defetead, there was huge backlash against the unification so the New Republic (NR) was incredibly libertarian that it had a very small central government and fleet and the various systems were supposed to police themselves. Since the First Order (FO) was a threat, the NR put the fleet around the capital to prevent it from being attacked but they didn't know about Starkiller Base which destroyed not only it but also the central government (chancellor, senate etc.). And the systems' fleets were good at fighting pirates but not enough against something like the FO which with the combination of the shock factor is why they folded. Overall the war would've made much more sense if the New Republic was just severely damaged and not destroyed. The Resistance would've organized it to fight the FO in a big war. The FO would be stuck - also because of Kylo Ren's incompetent leadership since he's a warrior and not a strategist - and the Sith would come to help them. The Battle of Exegol would be then FO and the Sith against the NR/Resistance fleet which would then be reinforced by the fleet of others (random ships, smugglers, corporations...) to get rid of the FO/Sith. Overall it wouldn't overhaul the movies and it would make the war much more realistic. Anyway I'm looking forward to your video.

[@emberfist8347]

First shouldn't need supplemental material and secont both the Old Rpeublic and New Republic would have to be centralized to some degree in order to work as governments. And the New Republic shouldn't make the same mistakes as the Old when the founder lived through the Old Republic and should know what mistakes to avoid.

[@ethantaylor9613]

Are you dead ass telling me… that the sequels had rushed and incomplete writing? Bruh moment.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

The chiefmost flaw of the Star War in question is that these three films were very obviously written and composed not only without effective collaboration with each other, but seemingly in active conflict with each other - if you had seen clashes this big in a TV show instead of films you would assume there was conflict bordering on breakdown in the writer's room. While it's well and good for people trying to criticise or rehabilitate the films as a single series to focus on possible in-universe justifications, trying to ONLY refer to in-universe reasons is doomed since it fails to account for the elephant in the room. It's what's hampering Disney's fevered attempts to rehabilitate the films as a series, because they refuse to admit any problems in inter-film dynamics or writing, and so have to use exclusively plot twists to try and retrospectively fix a problem not actually caused by plot twists in and of themselves. This is what makes the real-world comparison very helpful; deprived of the default in-universe retroactive justifications, they have to engage with the actual core elements of the story.

[@Redpoppy80]

Something that also severely perturbed me was how the First Order was tracking the Raddis? It is never covered, and the concept of Fuel was never addressed in Star Wars major media so bringing it up now out of nowhere just says that the writers were just looking for an excuse to raise the stakes. But about the tracking device, how on Naboo does that work!? The whole point of lightspeed travel is that you are able to get out of range of any would be tracking devices unless they either a physical bug or someone is telling the First Order what is going on, so a spy, but nooooo, it was never addressed again.

[@MistahFox]

In between the release of Star Wars Episode 2 and Episode 3, Lucasfilm dedicated massive amounts of time and money into the EU. There were novels written, games made, comics printed and even a short animated television series made in the interim to flesh out the 3 years of the Clone Wars during the 3 years before Episode 3 came out. Lucasfilm built up the world of the Prequels to build hype for the next movie; by creating investment in the war with a consistent narrative, it made fans excited to see its conclusion. Such a collaboration was possible because the films were at least loosely planned out with a consistent end point that everything could build towards. There is almost no expanded material in the Sequel era, and what was there sometimes got retconned with the movies themselves because their was no plan. The "trilogy" is hardly even a trilogy, there is no consistent narrative but rather a series of movies where each one is just a response to the last one. The Force Awakens was a response to the hate for the Prequel trilogy, so it avoided any mention of anything in them, even to the point of removing pod racing flags from Mas Kanata's palace, and including avoiding talking about politics or the wider galaxy since that's supposedly what fans didn't like about the prequels. Even Episode 4 includes conversations that discuss the greater situation, and despite being the only Star Wars product at the time still gave a better understanding of the Galaxy than TFA. That doesn't matter though, because the point of TFA was not to build a new story, but instead to just not be the prequels. TLJ feels like it was written in response to Instagram fan theories, and TROS feels like it was written in response to fan's negative feedback to TLJ. Say what you will about the prequels, but they actually cared about building a unique story in the Star Wars universe, and were able to expand the EU to do it through a consistent vision. The sequels feel nothing but apathy for anything, they don't even feel like a cash-grab as much as they feel like a hate letter to the Star Wars universe and everything that came before.

[@dekai7992]

I sense JJ Abram's hand in this. The handling of the conflict is similarly non-sensical as the logistics of Star Trek: Into Darkness, where starships are able to jump to and from Klingon and human capital worlds without any defence measures kicking in whatsoever. Those are species homeworlds, for crying out loud. I mean, what!?

[@thomoose4647]

I agree but its worst that I think it was implied (or said) that Kahn used a transporter from earth to Klingon home world. I could be wrong but I not going to watch ST: Into Dumbness again. JJ just cares about getting the the 'cool' visual / 'awesome' fight scene as fast as possible.