The Newest News on Spinosaurus

Read the paper here! elifesciences.org/articles/80092
Sereno et al. go through a ton of tests to see if Spinosaurus was good at swimming, and their results seem pretty good. But will this be the end of Spinosaurus lifestyle papers? Probably not, but we'll cross that bridge once it is published.
It's dangerous to go alone, check out our Links!
Patreon: www.patreon.com/raptorchatter
Twitter: raptor_chatter
Redbubble: www.redbubble.com/people/RaptorChatter/shop
Discord: / discord

[@danielb3573]

Has anyone in the paleontology community ever considered it might be a semi-aquatic egg laying reptile of action?

[@thatswhatshesaid2777]

A spinosaurus? PERRY THE SPINOSAURUS?!

[@pansepot1490]

Tbh I think this controversy is largely manufactured to keep the interest alive in this dino specifically and the field in general. Even an idiot can see that an animal that looks like a crocodile with a sail stuck on its back is not a long distance walker and neither it is comparable to a whale. It’s semi-aquatic. Experts can discuss the degrees and details of its lifestyle to their heart content but seriously arguing that it’s other than semi is not credible.

[@gladiusbladeofthenorth9939]

@@pansepot1490 its not manufactured,each paleontologist has their own opinion on how a certain animal behaved,and opinions will differ from one another because you can't disprove or prove the hypothesis This will keep on going until more Spinosaurus material is found

[@gladiusbladeofthenorth9939]

That and the guy who published the pursuit predator hypothesis for spino keeps pushing it instead of letting it die off

[@shanerooney7288]

"A semi-aquatic egg laying reptile of action?" * *Puts on hat* * "PERRY the semi-aquatic egg laying reptile of action!"

[@teawrecks1243]

and by 2035 they conclude the spinosaurus was actually a fungus that very coincidentally just so happened to look almost exactly like a dinosaur

[@jenisia3600]

Pin this comment you coward!!!

[@pigonnigal5735]

Ok but is it an aquatic fungus or not?

[@Brigtzen]

@@pigonnigal5735 Yesn't

[@abugonapugonamugonarug1653]

@@pigonnigal5735 new evidence says possibly airborne.

[@pigonnigal5735]

@@abugonapugonamugonarug1653 YO flying, aquatic spinosaurus fungus?

[@charlesjmouse]

I know I'm hardly an expert but this animal has always seemed to me to fit the role of 'gigantic wading bird' pretty perfectly. Hell, even it's sail may have served the purpose of shading water to help with spotting and even attracting fish as some waders do today - not a suggestion I've seen made by anyone but me! Make of that what you will.

[@RaptorChatter]

I've seen other people make the suggestion, but there's been nothing published on it, if there were a way to test it it'd be great!

[@heraboss5533]

That makes sense, but then you'd expect it to have longer legs like its relatives

[@danielled8665]

@@heraboss5533 not if it's behaving more like a duck/loon.

[@yichengao4539]

@@heraboss5533 that is true, although Spinosaurus is much larger than any waiting bird we have today, maybe it’s just not necessary for something it’s size? After all it’s legs are short on it’s body but is longer than any bird today. Even if there’s water too deep for it’s legs, it can stand in shallower water and use it’s relatively long body and neck to reach it perhaps, and then tail is there as a counterbalance. Either way the crocoduck is weird as hell

[@RokuroCarisu]

I think the sail was most likely a display feature. Spinosaurus shared its habitat with Carcharodontosaurus, so making itself look bigger could have helped in preventing conflict.

[@502nickster]

This is like a Cold War between palaeontologists. One side producing papers to say Spino is aquatic, the other side producing papers to argue that Spino is semi aquatic. Both trying to prove each other wrong. With Spinosaurus caught in the middle.

[@matheusfiorelli8829]

its the Bone Wars of our time 😅

[@Pastamist]

It’s paleontology in a nutshell. They’ll argue over headcanons that don’t fit their own like a slightly more professional Twitter puritan. They’re quick to say who’s right and who’s wrong when there’s very little evidence of *extinct* animals to go off of anyway. That said, all I know is sail-backed croco-duck.

[@Envy_May]

-maybe it was more like three quarters aquatic-

[@smugreptile6695]

Wouldn't be the first time Spino was caught in the crossfire of a war. Lets just hope they don't bomb the bones to dust this time.

[@operator8014]

Paleo-propoganda.

[@willschweitzer9784]

This dinosaur is the unicorn of dinosaurs. What I've been wondering about was its color, though.

[@angryrabidfoxes7380]

Careful, if you keep talking like that we might find out it actually had a horn

[@dakwha2686]

Im quite sure the color of Spinosaurus would be the only normal thing about it. because it would want to hide its weirdness from the other dinosaurs at school as much as possible.

[@Charlie-Charlot]

@@dakwha2686ntil we found that spinosaurus was color changing like a chameleon

[@bossturner9540]

Probably had a patterning similar to ducks, AKA Sexual Dimorphism where the Males were brightly colored to impress the Females, and the Females were patterned to the environment so they could blend in

[@varanid9]

It's color varied depending on how much the observer had to drink.

[@modej2239]

not gonna lie i always imagined spino moving trough the water like a hippo, essentially trotting underwater and would even jump toward the surface to get air with the assistance of the tail and legs even though it was awfully slow in water it would have helped it being a ton more sneaky toward its prey, moving slowly and just creeping around before striking out of nowhere

[@thedoruk6324]

+Mode J except the tail wont truly be a swimming aid the inability of that tail has been pointed out by many people mark witton dr hone and honz as well as mr handerson

[@magnarcreed3801]

I figured it wadded, swam and didn’t chase its food but waited.

[@thedoruk6324]

@@Me-yq1fl literally the opposite so many paleontology oriented people openly proclaimed and spoken out that the tail is nothing like a paddle or the salamanders not only that but that is extremely unfit to drag the animal, let alone aid it throughout the currents of the water additionally the tail vertebra seemingly suddenly peaks out thus is extremely anti aquadynamic

[@An-kw3ec]

Well, axoloths and newts have a very similar tail morphology and limb proportions to the proposed Spinosaur, these modern animals are slow swimmers who usually rely on ambushing their prey, I think that could be a better comparison than modern crocodiles.

[@dakwha2686]

Even in the wading model that may give reason for the massive heavy sail. The sail kept Spinosaurus underwater. As well the tail could function as a type of sensory organ to detect vibrations in the water, and as a rudder rather than for propulsion(the straight sail would do quite a bit to keep Spino going straight after all.) The center of buoyancy being in front of the center of mass would also keep Its head upright, with the sail keeping the spino going straight and the tail working as a tool to change direction(if that is indeed how they function) you have a creature that has an incredible reach and can turn on a dime, great for preventing falls as well as lashing to the left or right very quickly to catch moving fish. there is still was too much we don't know about Spinosaurus; all we really know is how little we know about it.

[@xlonelyfallenangelx]

Honestly I’ve always imagined spinosaurus as standing in the water, not swimming, so this makes perfect sense to me

[@RaptorChatter]

I feel like a lot of the evidence is going this way, right now at least. Sereno is known to sit on fossils for years though too, so hopefully something comes from the Spinosaurus specimens from Algeria & Niger. But those seemed pretty partial too.

[@TragoudistrosMPH]

@@RaptorChatter is it possible that people are overdichotomizing? Most animals can swim, and surprisingly well. An animal with any adaptations should theoretically be quite better, no? So, how well would their models work for genus homo or for otters using skeletal remains? (I'm a statistician and I'm always curious about models being trained on similar data *skeletons* rather than flesh and skeletons 😀)

[@juliancaraveo5700]

@@TragoudistrosMPH Gorillas, chimps, and bonobos can't swim due to their muscle structure that lacks the necessary fat to float / swim in water. However macaques and proboscis monkeys can swim / float in water.

[@mk_rexx]

@@TragoudistrosMPH Well unlike Spino, otters don't have the problem of having a comically huge sail on top of being comically large itself. Square cube law and stuff. I also think the paper's objective is not to say that Spino is nowhere aquatic, but to say that Spino is NOT THAT aquatic as depicted.

[@nobblkpraetorian5623]

It probably had a lifestyle like a bear, primarily eating fish while still capable at moving on land.

[@KnightmarePhoenix_official]

I had kind of imagined it as a sort of hippo-heron.

[@jonathanhaas9962]

I always saw it as something that would wade in the water, like a heron, standing in water waiting for prey to swim in front of it, more as a ambush predator. Never actually submerging, but can tread water when needed.

[@RaptorChatter]

That seems like what most research is leaning towards.

[@wingedhussar1453]

This is a good take but then how did such a ln animal evolve to be that size and be a duck basicly. Rivers usually are shallow would it even fit there. I mean it's very possible but it's a niche animal

[@waywardscythe3358]

The leg proportions are always so interesting to me. The tail and sail make them look absurdly small, but in some art also using that most current reconstruction, they look totally reasonable.

[@crackerman5519]

link pls

[@kingofflames738]

@@crackerman5519 links don't work on KZbin

[@crackerman5519]

@@kingofflames738 but copying them does

[@kingofflames738]

@@crackerman5519 it doesn't. The moment a link is posted in a comment the comment gets autodeleted.

[@goldenhate6649]

@@crackerman5519 It is against the terms of service to link in the comments section.

[@jamesgordon364]

The sail reminds me of the black heron, which uses its wings to block glare on the surface, it's neck angle seems to suggest it could make a quick strike with its long jaws, also like a heron.

[@dwaneanderson8039]

The problem with the shade theory is that the sail can't cast a shadow in front of the animal. It can only cast a shadow to the side. But it isn't practical to strike at prey to the side. If it turns toward the prey, the shadow would disappear, so it wouldn't be able to see the prey when it most needs to.

[@aadhi6490]

@@dwaneanderson8039 but wouldnt it's "side strike" also be supported with how low it was to the ground, and how long its snout was? plus since it has those motion sensor things on the tip of its snout (forgot the name TT), i imagine it would be wading in shallow rivers with its head down towards the side (Snout in the water) and it would strike once something got close.

[@melodi996]

@@aadhi6490 that'd be really unique, all modern shade-makers are going the easy way with front shadow, sail would've been there before this use and had to evolve for a different reason.

[@Dinosaurssongs]

All he need to do is put his jaws that feel the vibrations in the water and catch his prey for you he needs shade

[@mikoj5788]

Tbf though, a lot of this relies on it being fast in water when it really doesnt matter. Crocs can be fastish in water but they are primarily ambush predators, i assume spinos would be very similar. They may have been a bit like sea cows or hippos and just mosey along the bottom, or stay nearish the surface and wait for fish to just swim into its mouth, like a bear waiting for salmon.

[@RaptorChatter]

It was more going after an idea that was proposed in a paper in 2020 by Ibrahim called 'Tail-propelled aquatic locomotion in a theropod dinosaur' where they found the neural spines on the tail and proposed that the tail would help propel it through the water and be an "active and highly specialized aquatic predator that pursued and caught its prey in the water column"

[@ninchiru9225]

For me Spino is like a dino that wades through the water, fishing like a heron, while the big sail helps to keep its body temperature up, by catching sunlight, as the running water of rivers surely would cool it down quite a bit. with the sail catching the sunlight, warming it, it could stay in water much longer to catch fish.

[@aliakbarmaliki3156]

Yeah, I always think Spinosaurus as something like that too

[@adilsonbarreiro7488]

Im not an expert but for me spinosaurus really looks like a giant goose/pelican. It walks goofy on land but spends decent time on it, but it mostly just swims like a duck with its head and most of the body outside of water and when it sees fish it just dives a little bit and catches it. Pelican and geese are not good divers, are not especialized in diving but they still do it to hunt.

[@Slomurr]

I've also imagined spinosaurus not being fully aquatic, but more of like a huge duck. It can be a water oriented predator without needing to dive fully underwater. It makes more since it has a long neck to reach for fish, and the further you're in the water, the closer you are to marine life, especially bigger fish. By making as little movement on the water surface as possible, it can easily catch fish off guard as fish are more reliant on vibrations in the water. That can explain why specimens are found near rivers rather than the seas, rivers are a great place to catch fish as there are only 2 directions they can go. Like sharks, having a lighter/ white under belly would help for camouflage. Maybe they had a darker dorsal to further aid in blending in. Maybe their snout patern was made illusions of foliage or the water itself. In away, by picturing them more like big Swan or Hippo, you can get a bigger image of how this animal looked like by its patterns and color, or at least for now.

[@pratikgaikwad7472]

Spino the huge ducks and t rexes were huge chickens. Perfection at finest.

[@wsword223]

Exactly what I was thinking!!

[@aghostonsocialmedia1688]

I like to imagine what aliens hypothesis would be on hippos, like if they are aquatic or terrestrial

[@jenisia3600]

Nice theory

[@Dinosaurssongs]

@@pratikgaikwad7472 Spinosaurus' closest living relative is BALAENICEPS rex

[@macgonzo]

Maybe the sail was there to make the animal look larger from the side view, in order to dissuade other large predators from attacking it? If they were feeding on fish they likely spent long periods of time motionless, staring at the water, or maybe even with their snout in the water if they had sensory pits on the tip of their snouts... During this time, they would potentially have been open to attack from other large predators, so a sail like they have might have made these other predators think twice about attacking them.

[@XMfranchiseStudios]

I think it either had a hippo walking on water Lifestyle or a wading bird one, both seem really convincing to me. Though we can be 100 procent certain that this animals lifestyle had something to do with water

[@mossy1476]

I usually never look at my actual subscription list but man am I glad I just did. Spinosaurus has been my favourite ever since I found out about it. Personally I do think it was more of a 'wading through shallow rivers and costal water' kind of animal. the wide feet could really help with loose, slippery muddy soil and it would explain why it does have certain attributes of aquatic animals.

[@Charlie-Charlot]

I’ve always thought of the sail and tail fins as more of a display thing, not only for attracting mates but also to appear larger than the actual animal is. Spinosaurus being in an environment filled with other large theropods such as Carcarodontosaurus and spending most of its time with its head in the water would make it pretty vulnerable, having a large dorsal sail and tail fins making the animal look twice as big from the side might have been a great defense strategy

[@DogsWallop]

Defense strategy for the biggest carnivourous dinosaur we ever found ?? Lol

[@Charlie-Charlot]

@@DogsWallop spinosaurus is only thought to have been the longest theropods, it is however nowhere near the strongest and built for any sort of confrontation with other animals larger than a big fish or anything that it could have caught with its jaws or claws. Judging by its morphology, it might have been not really fast nor agile on land, if a Carcarodontosaurus can prey on large sauropods, an average sized spinosaurus wouldn’t be much of a problem. Spinosaurus was an extremely specialized animal, which means that it was very efficient for what it has evolved to do but quite bad at everything else, try to picture a Spinosaurus chasing a prey on land. Since every other large theropods of its environment lacked binocular vision, I bet that the spinosaurus sail and tail fins would have been enough to scare them off

[@elijazfrazelsassafraz3100]

@@Charlie-Charlot not even mentioning that it'd take years for Spinos to reach full size and wouldnt be at 100%

[@Charlie-Charlot]

@@elijazfrazelsassafraz3100 exactly! People tend to forget that animals don’t spawn in life in their full size but rather spend the vast majority of it growing

[@johnduquette7023]

I figured that they were more visible to each other over distance as they managed their territories. I imagine they had excellent vision, and being able to see each other when swimming on the surface of the water traveling from fishing spot to fishing spot would allow them to size each other up without needing to confront each other directly.

[@demonlad827]

Something I would want to see studied is if spinosaurus’s neck could move fast/strike like a heron. I remember an old animated video of a spinosaurus staying still with its mouth in the river. Wondering if it would be more like that, or staying still with its head above the water and then suddenly shooting its head into the water.

[@RaptorChatter]

There was a paper like that I think. Something about the sigmoidal neck in the title, but I can't find it right now.

[@kevenharvey9711]

I never thought it could outswim fish, it would have been an ambush predator with a burst of speed, and the sail could have been an "anchor" to allow the head to move more precisely.

[@RaptorChatter]

But there isn't a burst of speed while swimming. It could lunge well from the shore, like the Hone and Holtz paper suggested, but there's not the burst of speed in the water.

[@tyrannovenatortorvus972]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we discovered wings on Spinosaurus.

[@kuitaranheatmorus9932]

Spino yet again being in the news and I love it, hope you have a good day

[@kataztropheemusic]

Through all this spinosaurus drama, I always thought of herons too. Herons will even fly a short distance across the water to get to a different part of the bank/beach to stay away from predators, which is how I imagine spinosaurus paddling across the surface.

[@thedoruk6324]

Its *Finally* out huh! I have already readed the paper. I personally think its well made and decently points out the high inconsistencies about the likely inaccurate and extreme degree of aquatic attributes attached to Spinosaurus. I also want to note that there was the earliest paper about bio isotopes that also found out morocco tunisia and libya Specimens of Spinosaurus did not show aquatic attributes but they shown quite terrestrial results.

[@RaptorChatter]

Yep! Isotopic studies have been all over the place for Spinosaurus, makes me think that maybe it was a generalist capitalizing on prey in both waterways and on land

[@thedoruk6324]

@@RaptorChatter Indeed! The reality is that the paleontology is in dire and immediate need of more and more spinosaurus and spinosaurinae specimens as soon as possible

[@Zooollieg]

*Read not Readed

[@skullclot420]

i readed this

[@inzomniacZz]

I always figured they were semi aquatic? They’d wade in water and lay in ambush for their prey, both aquatic and land creatures (kinda like crocs). Though they could also hunt on land too if the opportunity arose.

[@charlesunderwood6334]

I have done fieldwork at many of the Moroccan and Egyptian sites with Spinosaurus. I am very sceptical of the small hind limbs and think it likely that the neotype is more than one individual preserved in an unusual deposit of trampled mudstone- the rock type is unlike anything else I have seen in the Kem Kem (maybe a predator trap with mired victims around a dried out pool).

[@charlesunderwood6334]

Add that whilst many of the fossils are in channel lags, some of the best preserved are in current rippled silts with Spinosaurus, Onchopristis, lots of small to medium fish and little else- no giant fish, large turtles and also no other large dinosaurs. I interpret this as a wide (many km across) area of very shallow (0.5-2m) slowly flowing water. The 'superheron' model would fit well.

[@Deform-2024]

The neotype's fossils were found in the same locality and isotope analysis support them belonging to the same individual. There is no good reason it was a chimera.

[@Deform-2024]

@@charlesunderwood6334 Furthermore, the Gara Sbaa region in the kem kem group has fast moving water that exceeds 6 meters in depth. Spinosaurus was found in this locality aswell.

[@charlesunderwood6334]

@@Deform-2024 Indeed; it was certainly linked to water but shallow as well as deep, and the shallow water sites yield no other (more terrestrial) dinosaurs or large aquatic fish. Of the lower energy sites, those with small snakes, amphibians etc also have a range of theropods so are presumably shallower still or more likely small backwaters.

[@davidletasi3322]

Do you have any references of recent work in the mid Cretaceous of your sites you were researching in Egypt? Were there any S. egyptians remains recovered in your field work there? I've researched Kem Kem material but haven't seen anything other than Stromers photos and papers from the early twentieth century. I know Philip Gingrich had been working in Egypt in the Upper Eocene archeocete whale fossil there.

[@benrompen7100]

Well, at this point my "Spinosaurus is a big duck" theory is still in the running.

[@Dinosaurssongs]

Spinosaurus' closest living relative is BALAENICEPS rex

[@laurensmith8697]

Always my favourite dinosaur, along with eustreptospondylus, neovenator, iguanodon and baryonyx.

[@RaptorChatter]

More Eustreptospondylus papers would be great. I love that one

[@laurensmith8697]

It would, people rarely talk about it unfortunately.

[@MarcoPolo-vb1sw]

My guess it was a wading in shallow water with the sail in the air caching some rays to keep warm & active.

[@ShadowReaper1227X]

I definitely subscribe to the "Heron" theory with how it probably hunted on coastlines, but I do think it still was able TO swim. Not that it swam to hunt or anything, but its environment was probably so close to water that it gave the Spino the ability to traverse water in order to get to another shoreline or maybe reach a sandbar further out at sea. Most likely, it swam surface level and never hunted while submerged. Potentially, it may have also used deep water to retreat from threats on land or even stalk earthbound prey from the shallows Not sure what the classification would be. Maybe Semi Aquatic, but I digress. Bottom line, it's more than likely a shoreline dweller, but not a deep oceanic hunter.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Herring is a bit difference…

[@ShadowReaper1227X]

@@grahamstrouse1165 fixed it 👍 Thx for pointing that out lol

[@tonyevans9999]

Hopefully we can find a more complete specimen to apply all this wonderful conjecture and hypotheses to and actually gain greater understanding.

[@RaptorChatter]

That would be wonderful, and I will happily welcome that when/if it comes.

[@Deform-2024]

The neotype is complete enough, problem is it remains mostly undescribed.

[@tonyevans9999]

@@Deform-2024 yes, that's true but attempts to describe it more fully are limited and always seem to hit a wall. A more complete single specimen wouldn't hurt

[@aftimo6687]

I´ve been recently thinking of Spino like a semi-aquatic animal like a heron, spending life around and close to water like you mention. I also believe it could've walked on land similarly to a pangolin.

[@alexdurain3753]

I feel like people keep skipping out on the most obvious comparison. Bears, both seem to have a similar lifestyle.

[@thedoruk6324]

+Alex DuRain *exactly!*

[@maggielandrey411]

now im imagining the jp spino with a typical movie bear roar lol

[@odanh6020]

I started to think that Spinosaurus is like a hippo or a bear.

[@alexdurain3753]

@@odanh6020 Maybe both? how does the test work with bears and hippos?

[@grahamstrouse1165]

I’ve been thinking bear (with a touch of heron 😁) for years.

[@lk6007]

Our brother Spino gets updated every year.

[@gabrieljvelez-perez9275]

Personally, I think of him as more of an ambush predator. Waiting like a crocodile would do when in the presence of fish, since most of its anatomy is like that of a crocodile. But, the heron hunting method isn’t so far fetched either.

[@adamtruong1759]

I heard someone say that dinosaur fights are boring (which I implied as there's more to them than just fighting), while I don't completely agree with that statement, I've recently started to get more and more interested in reality rather than the fiction. And real Spinosaurus, or the path to discovering what Spinosaurus even is, is more fascinating than the JP3 movie monster. Such a unique situation it's in, and always coming back.

[@zombiedad]

It is such a weird looking animal. I can understand why it is debated. ‘How could that thing stand unsupported by water’ versus ‘ it’s all built like an english staffy no way it was aquatic.’ 😂

[@dramallamarama5300]

So spinosaurus is more of a wader and it’s dense bones were likely used to prevent the animal from being knocked over by the buoyancy of the water as it waded through deeper parts. Keeping to the edges of the water as it hunted for fish in the shallows, bearing in mind that shallow for this animal would have been like 2m depth of water, whilst also hunting on land during the dry season. Death Heron Theory.

[@albertuy4551]

I imagine it like a mantis kind of hunting. Probably waiting motionless on the river edge and launch on its prey when it comes. The sail could be a temperature regulator while it stays under the heat while waiting. It may even get fishes to come closer if they're looking for some shade making it easier for the Spinosaurus to attract prey.

[@masonmurray3312]

I imagine the spinosaurus being similar to a crocodile. It is capable of living on land, but prefers hunting in the water. It would make sense as it did have short legs and a long snout.

[@BlackAceDeathRose]

as much as i appreciate the argument of Spinosaurus not being able to swim fast, it probably didnt have to. It could be an ambush predator and use the waterways as a method of transportation

[@theperfectbotsteve4916]

new information about spino comes out 👁◇👁 new information about spino comes out 👁□👁

[@mario97br]

Always thought of Spino being stuck at a similar evolutionary point as hippos, coming from a land animal, living in mid-deep waters, moving more by running on the seabed, than real swimming, if moving a lot at all - heron theory (heron- ambush hunter on water edge from top, crocodile- ambush hunter on water edge from below, Spino- does whatever he likes, because he is the boss of the water place). This would be supported by the dense bones - who would believe how fast Hippos move in water based on their bones? The tail would be used for slow speed, low energy expenditure - long journey travel. Think about it trying to walk long distances, seems not so convincing. The only point I struggle with is 7:42 , but if your main area is 10 feet +- 10 feet deep, it’s not important to get very deep. Yes, yes the drag just starts to decrease after 10 feet deep significantly , but it surely works out. The point of boyancy being in front of the point of gravity makes sense - if rising fast to the top to get fresh air is important for you or your head shall look out of the water without your body. His sail is probably embedded in a fat hunch, like in a Bison (see skeleton)that gives a more torpedo like structure, similar to some known Mosasaurus artwork. A bunch of fat would balance out the dense bones, modulate the hydrodynamics and shift the equilibrium. The main issue is really the possible torque in a sideways position. This would be great as a stable resting position, but everyone who has ever sailed or windsurfed knows what for a mess it would be to get something this size upright again without a counter balance opposite the turning axis. But if it’s covered in fat and the point of weight lies higher the turn may become easier, closer to a roll. Isn’t the the reoccurring theme of the sail in animals quite fascinating? It seems to be more often than not a intimidating sexual display organ, than fulfill greater physiological function, possibly even be contra productive, yet the ladies always liked boys with a big back and a wide tail…

[@thedoruk6324]

+Mdune uh actually the dense bones hypothesis is kinda debunked by Dr Honez and Dr Hone they repeated that the Spinosaurus bones were way more hollower than expected

[@evanpimley5933]

@@thedoruk6324 What was the title of that study? I would ask for a link, but KZbin won't let you post links anymore

[@danielled8665]

@@evanpimley5933 not positing links kind of makes sense, considering how bad it was getting with bots posting "here's what you've been looking for! *link*"

[@magnarcreed3801]

@@evanpimley5933 Lmao I’ll post links and nothing happens. Usually also studies.

[@mario97br]

@@thedoruk6324 Oh thx, missed this update ^^

[@Cognac0543]

after the change and tail fossil findings i myself just labelled it as a semi-aquatic. And with what you showed id could only assume its a bottom walker in a sense but that is something croc's and alligators a like do to run/scoot along the bottom of a lake or large body of water.

[@killerbopeep]

Hey! First time to the channel and this was such and amazing and informative video. I do want to say though that I don’t think that anyone actually thought or tried to argue that Spinosaurus is aquatic. That paper brings up amazing points and brings forward a lot of helpful information but it’s arguing at no one/nothing. It’s widely understood they weren’t fish and when people call it ‘aquatic’ they are just mentioning it’s water-based lifestyle as compared to other tetrapods.

[@RaptorChatter]

There was a paper in 2020 that was saying it was a pursuit predator and used it's tail to propel itself through the water. So it's more arguing against that specific idea.

[@tristanwilliams4180]

for me who grew up with the Jurassic Park Spinosaurus, it's actually cool to know more about the New Spinosaurus Today also What Kind of Dinosaur Would Spino Hunt on land?

[@batbat4043]

Possibly small dinosaurs

[@GhidorahFan64]

T rex

[@batbat4043]

@@GhidorahFan64 nope it could not kill it maybe realy weak ones

[@GhidorahFan64]

@@batbat4043 spino hunt rex

[@batbat4043]

@@GhidorahFan64 spinosaurus was too fragile to kill a rex

[@WildBillCox13]

Consider the Amazon flood basin and its yearly cycle of flood and ebb. Speed is not so much a factor as sharp senses and quick jaw closing. Lots of non racing animals in that mess. If we're seeing qualities better suited for a more constricted seasonal environment (shallow and full of deadfall and everything else imaginable) then, perhaps, some research is looking farther afield than it might need to. Moreover, few fresh water turtles can outswim any smaller animals, though some are able to catch prey anyway. Like with old time submarines, stealth trumps speed under certain conditions.

[@WildBillCox13]

The bone density paper (which I read) suggests the hippo lifestyle, not the free swimming marine lifestyle. Hippos don't swim. In a riverine or swamp environment, that sail would be a stabilizer, tending to maintain both depth and direction in a top-dwelling fish eater, scavenger. Look at ship design for hydrodynamic cognates.

[@Rabbit-o-witz]

Spinosaurus: The amalgamations of my biology are an enigma

[@ictia7036]

I’ve always seen it as an ambush predator- standing still in the water waiting for a fish or something to swim by, sensing the movement, and snapping that direction.

[@RaptorChatter]

I think most researchers are leaning that way.

[@roiscavel3923]

I remember that, when I was a kid, I had a book about dinosaurs that described it as "nature's whim" and ever since then it's been my favourite dinosaur. All the new data and constant new discoveries and changes just solidified as my favourite. I love being alive during this time. Can't wait to see what Spinosaurus becomes next 💙.

[@fluffypants9783]

Ive always wondered if maybe the reason theyre often found around water is because the babies are semi-aquatic and then leave the water as they get older? A complete shot in the dark but idk

[@RaptorChatter]

There could very easily be some variation in lifestyle from young to adults. But unfortunately we only really have a few hand claws fro young ones, so it' really hard to say for sure.

[@herpderp3916]

I feel like Spino has to be at least semi-aquatic given that paddle tail. If not for propulsion in the water, what would it be used for?

[@aliakbarmaliki3156]

It may've been for display

[@fearsomejuice6991]

Fat storage perhaps? Similar to a camel's humps?

[@Skrenja]

The "new" hind legs seem very wrong to me. My gut feeling tells me that they will be an outdated theory in the future.

[@ericl447]

Thanks for the Spino update sir! Very informative.

[@avam2003]

this channel means so much to me thank u for what you do!!

[@RaptorChatter]

You're welcome!

[@GaeaProjects]

Here's how I always imagined Spinosaurus ever since they deemed it "aquatic" : It's a duck-bear. Wading through shallow water hunting aquatic animals that stray to close and if it can't find prey in the water it will head inland in search of other sources of food. Wouldn't even be surprised if this big boy was omnivorous in some fashion.

[@annadachowska24]

At this point I just laughed seeing the title and clicked immediately 🤣

[@RaptorChatter]

Yeah, Spinosaurus likes to be difficult

[@houstonnewton9199]

The sail served no other purpose than finding mates. Source: it came to me once in a dream

[@DaisyOh]

Loved this video! Spinosaurus is my favorite dino. I wish I could see one for real and see what it looked like vs our current model.

[@miguelcabreracastro6968]

Finally some information on this subject. I , like everyone, just want to know... man i wish some day we find a good chunk of a skeleton, the idea of this dinosaur been like a huge Heron is really cool to me jaja

[@RaptorChatter]

Heck, even a better description of the one decent one we do have would be nice. Some people are doubting if it's even all one specimen.

[@Patrick3183]

It’s so iconic that Spino is constantly the center of attention

[@CromoPaleoShow]

Gotta love Spinosaurus 😂 Great video mate! Quality is better than ever!

[@Zero8880]

Aquatic/ non aquatic spinosaurus is the new version of the hot topic debate Trex, scavenger or predator.

[@lachlansmith]

Is it possible that the reason it’s been found around river and coastal environments is that it was so awkward in the water that it drowned?

[@RaptorChatter]

Probably not. It still would have been able to manage, just not quickly like in the earlier aquatic hypothesis. So it's not like it was helpless, it just wasn't great at swimming.

[@Deform-2024]

People are getting swept up in definitions. Ibrahim never said Spinosaurus was 'fully' aquatic, but to be fair the pursuit predation style remains unsupported. The body design fits ambush hunting closer anyway.

[@RaptorChatter]

One of the major problems is that in scientific literature "aquatic" "semi-aquatic" and "terrestrial" have never been properly quantified. Moose are considered terrestrial, but are great swimmers. Polar bears could arguably be semi-aquatic. Pond turtles can live most of their lives in the water, but still have claws, and can get around reasonably well on land. Until the terms are all well-defined I imagine the debate will continue.

[@Deform-2024]

@@RaptorChatter Fair point. This thing was clearly tied to the water, but the issue is *to what extent*.

[@johnlopez9014]

I always imagined that it was a semi aquatic, being very specific to shallow bodies of water and acting more of a stork

[@mrmoviemanic1]

Spinosaurus has literally been one of my favs since 2001 with Jurrasic Park 3.

[@Avisrex1995]

Perhaps not a pursuit predator but an ambush one instead? It's sail being similar to rocks or something and sitting at the bottom like a snapping turtle? Would solve the speed and drag issues, why put all that effort into chasing prey when you can just sit and have it come to you?

[@RaptorChatter]

But it still wouldn't be able to get to the bottom based on the buoyancy issue.

[@Avisrex1995]

@@RaptorChatter stone swallowing perhaps? Would not be the first time it showed up in dinosaurs.

[@Comnlink]

Is Ibrahim still going for a fully aquatic spinosaurus? As far as I am aware he’s been arguing for a semi aquatic forager model for spinosaurus recently which makes some of this papers points kind of moot. Also as far as I know no one’s seriously been pushing the quadrupedal spinosaurus for a long time now.

[@RaptorChatter]

This paper has been in the works for at least a few years now, so it hasn't really addressed that as well. However, the tail propulsion calculations and buoyancy still suggest that it wouldn't be very successful at getting to the bottom as a sub-aqueous forager. I imagine we'll still see something more from him and his team though

[@Comnlink]

@@RaptorChatter oh yeah absolutely. The delay on papers hadn’t crossed my mind at the time of watching the video. My view of spinosaurus from what I’ve read is as a kind of “hippo Herron”. But the papers buoyancy study does get into that. Do we have information about whether or not this team took the bone density figures from the 2021 paper into account in its modelling?

[@lynnclapper997]

Well done. Thank you

[@StevinSto]

I like the idea of Spinosaurus being a giant heron. Not necessarily aquatic but usually lives near water.

[@Locksoli]

Tbh, I'd like there to be *more* studies on spinosaurus. Even if it's people constantly trying to compete on "was it aquatic or not", in the end that's a good thing. T-rex was constantly debated over whether or not it could hunt or if it could only scavenge-and it's one of the best known terrestrial animals to ever existed, the most extensively studied. Even if Spinosaurus wasn't fully aquatic, or even just semi-aquatic, we still get more information on it. This animal was almost blown away into obscurity (literally), and now we're learning more about it than when we only had a picture and some teeth.

[@The_PokeSaurus]

Can't wait for this paper to get challenged, the what ever challenged it gets challenged, and so on.

[@steelheron1309]

I'm about as far away of an expert as it gets, but from the aggregate of information I've heard or read I think that it was an opportunistic ambush predator kind of like a crocodile, snake, heron. It was capable of being partially submerged like a crocodile that used its tail and sail as a rudder to navigate through water currents instead of being able to use it for propulsion. It could catch fish that got too close but could ambush prey along the bank in a quick burst like a crocodile can at the shore, but it could also stand in shallow water and wait for fish to swim near it. It might also have used the sail for reproduction where it could change colors as it aged to indicate reproductive maturity or as a display to attract a mate. Too bad time machines don't exist so that we could see these things in action. That would be so cool.

[@mlggodzilla1567]

Spinosaurus news in 2070: "Spinosaurus was a laser eye theropod capable of flying and living in space"

[@Darth-Nihilus1]

Now what would happen if we find one with legs more like the ones from the 2003 and 2010 interpretation then it would be make everything more of a mess

[@RaptorChatter]

It would be good evidence that there are more genera of spinosaurids in the environment. There's already debates about if Spinosaurus and Sigilmassosaurus are the same species or not.

[@Darth-Nihilus1]

@@RaptorChatter it’s an amazing animal, they found them in South America that seem more like the movie to some extent and what if they aren’t separate species but they are the same as the North African. The world is an amazing filled with possibilities 😄

[@pencilpauli9442]

That sail though. It's hard to see Spinosaurus as an aquatic animal with that sail. The Aquatic school is going to have to come up with some darned solid slam dunk evidence to change my non expert opinion.

[@kade-qt1zu]

How so. I don't see how the tail would prevent Spinosaurus from being able to swim.

[@zanzanazenzen1221]

@@kade-qt1zu mark witton pointed it all out within his tweets as well as dr hone and holtz also explained it

[@pencilpauli9442]

@@kade-qt1zu The tail isn't the problem, the sail on the other hand is.

[@RaptorChatter]

Yeah, I still imagine arguments but my thoughts on why the aquatic groups think it's aquatic is too close to slander for this channel.

[@kade-qt1zu]

@@pencilpauli9442 It was a typo.

[@DracoSafarius]

Seeing this stuff it makes me lean more to them doing the near or shallow river stuff you mentioned, but also have been possible they spent time in the water but not as hunters.

[@soundwavepings]

10:11 Was not excepting that😳

[@robertstone9988]

The new new new new spino

[@RaptorChatter]

Going to keep crossing out the words ad infinitum

[@adiprajapati]

So the Jurassic Park 3 model is correct?!

[@peterrabbit2965]

Didn't they find carbon isotope ratios in fossils indicating a mostly terrestrial diet in some spinosaurs, and mostly marine in others? In other words, spino's are terrestrial, and some of them live near rivers? Prime real estate for the big, dominant animals? (God I love this stuff) Great channel by the way, thanks for making your videos.

[@thedoruk6324]

+Peter Rabbit way before that there was the first bio isotope analysis done in 2010 and they pointed out the fact that morocco tunisia and libya spinosaurus specimens clearly and actually shown terrestrial results

[@RaptorChatter]

There have been papers finding a mix, some finding mostly terrestrial, and some finding mostly aquatic prey. Because they were always shedding their teeth it's likely that their teeth represented their diet at just one time. So really all of those together would suggest to me that they were generalists.

[@MadameCorgi]

@@RaptorChatter cool! Haven't there also been fossils showing they attacked fish though

[@dillon26]

the amount of research, speculation, and mystery is what makes spinosaurus hands down my favorite dinosaur. badass animal

[@welldonesir3996]

I imagine that Spinosaurus was like a Snaping turtle. Laying in the shallow water, ready to snap on it’s prey. It feels the wind, know where fish may be, and use it’s strong tail to quickly kill prey.

[@JohnDrummondPhoto]

Maybe it's me; but Spinosaurus' rear legs just look too short and weak for it to walk bipedally. It also wouldn't be very fast on land even on four legs. I was thinking, just as you showed, that it may have hunted fish and amphibians in shallow water like a gigantic heron. It could also have snapped up small animals on land as storks often do.

[@beastmaster0934]

That’s how I think it hunted.

[@kade-qt1zu]

Bro. Spinosaurus was bipedal. It's center of mass was near it's legs. There's no way it would be able to walk on four legs.

[@thedoruk6324]

@@kade-qt1zu preach! its way too absurd and ridiculous to see that there are still people that desperately wanting the debunked quadrupedal speculation. mr handerson proven the point that its center of gravity is closer to legs as well as this new paper actually shows that spinosaurus legs were decently long enough for bipedalism

[@JohnDrummondPhoto]

@@thedoruk6324 don't over-read my comment. I'm no paleontologist, and I'm not "desperate" to prove or disprove anything. I'm just applying the eye test. It looks like, if it was bipedal, it would be a very ungainly walker on land at best. Like a gigantic duck or loon.

[@magnarcreed3801]

@@thedoruk6324 I mean think of bears though. They’re quadrupedal but can go bipedal. Could work just in reverse in certain situations.

[@thorodinson6625]

Personally I prefer spinosaurus as a swimmer, being able to hunt large fish and small animals. Sure, it's not as adaptable as in the films, but I can't imagine a spino being unable to swim.

[@RaptorChatter]

It's not that it was unable to swim, just that it was not likely a fast pursuit predator that was propsed in 2020

[@aliakbarmaliki3156]

It CAN SWIM, all dinosaurs can. It's just that Spinosaurus can't dive underwater like many people used to think, to the point that they believed Spinosaurus is a 2.0 crocodile in the water when it clearly wasn't

[@UmbraXCVII]

Always imagined spinosaurus as hunting its prey similar to bears in salmon runs or even how herons hunt too.

[@michaelbondt8202]

what makes more sense in my mind is Spinosaurs were shore birds, used their sails like herons use their wings to create a shadow and the long tail and snout to corral and snatch up fish.

[@TheRunningLeopard]

I'm going to die on the hill of Spinosaurus being at least semiaquatic. I don't care if it's the most accurate, it's a cool idea and the likelihood of dinosaurs on one branch or another becoming secondarily adapted to water seems incredibly likely due to how long the family existed. (Especially considering how many times birds and mammals or even modern reptiles have secondarily adapted to water in less than 1/2 of the time dinosaurs existed.)

[@oisnowy5368]

I like to cheer for underdogs, so go you! Go semi-aquatic Spinosaurus!

[@mhdfrb9971]

@@oisnowy5368 yeah otter dinosaur!

[@kade-qt1zu]

@@mhdfrb9971 You ever notice how half the time people say cringe it's for no reason at all. Almost like they want to say something negative, but they can't come up with anything.

[@RaptorChatter]

I still think the idea presented here is fantastic. Even if not swimming it still had an ecology unlike any other dinosaur

[@TheMrPeteChannel]

Can u at least be happy that it was the most wettest non avian dinosaur that lived?

[@DeathHawk31]

I feel like with the new shape of it, it lived much like a gator being close to or just inside the water moving about on all 4s and ambushing prey

[@thedoruk6324]

+DeathHawk31 quadrupedalism is simply impossible that theory has been debunked several times already it makes zero sense absolutely abhorrent speculation

[@zanzanazenzen1221]

dude quadrupedalism is literally proven impossible several times already! why you guys are so desperate at clinging to that

[@aliakbarmaliki3156]

It was very different to a gator 😂 The tail is less muscular and it was too buoyant to submerge

[@zanzanazenzen1221]

@@aliakbarmaliki3156 exactly these people acting to delusionally detached from reality that they still think the tail is somewhat similar to salamanders or crocodilians!

[@thedoruk6324]

@@aliakbarmaliki3156 these people literally parasitically attached to the already debunked quadrupedalism nonsense at this point nothing could wake them up from their hallucinations

[@chumuheha]

4:51 this is one of the funniest research diagrams I've ever seen

[@humblemarty]

Every time I hear about Spinosaurus I think about the line "Croc-o-duck versus Mecha Mickey Mouse thank ye very much!" It was in a comic dub on KZbin a few years back.

[@gendygoblin8391]

The Harren life style makes a lot of sense but I do think it could hunt in the water, just not like a traditional aquatic hunter these papers seem to think is the only way to characterize spinosaurus as. The speed it swims could actually be quite beneficial for fishing. The shade of its sale could attract fish to its location and its inability to go under the water too well probably lets it stay above the water and fish like a duck if anything. It just has to swim and eventually something will be close enough to grab. It’s neck flexibility supports the duck posture, it’s claws and head support fishing, the buoyancy suggests it would work best above the water and the speed could imply it didn’t need to swim that fast. I don’t see Spinosaurus’s anatomy, being as large as it is, supporting purely display structures. Those structures work for lizards because of how low cost they are along with being smaller animals. Large animals are as efficient as possible and if they have a structure on them they are often times a dual purpose structure, especially if they are made up of bone. And if females of the species have a sail that doesn’t make much sense for a large primarily display structure to be on a member that doesn’t even need it, she would just be wasting nutrients.

[@Tuesdayz]

never understood why the modern interpretation of spino is always shown with such atrophied rear legs but fairly thick forelimbs, especially when they show it standing on two legs, even if the legs were that short it's hard to imagine stick legs with no muscle lifting up 20 tons.

[@V1ncenz010]

Basically, it swam and walked on water like a hippo. And he fished like a heron

[@mememe131199]

At this pace, we will figure out how it sound before agreeing on how aquatic it was.

[@HereticalKitsune]

Ah, poor Spino. xD Probably the most revised dino of the 21st century. xD

[@AcroLearn]

true lmao

[@benwest9004]

As soon as you started talking about the sail problems I was thinking heron like feeding style.

[@viniciusmagnoni6492]

Soon scientists will say that Spinosaurus were just giant worms.

[@Providence..]

I wanna go back to the Jurassic Park days when everyone agreed it was a giant terrestrial animal that could kill Tyrannosaurus. I don't even know what this thing is supposed to look like anymore, lol.