The Oath of Vengeance Paladin - D&D: Optimized #63

[@madwithjacob]

I have two friends who were in our Curse of Strahd campaign that I DM for. They were both oath of glory paladins at first but as they developed a relationship with a young boy they saved and wanted to protect it caught Strahd's attention. Of course, he couldn't let him have anything nice in his domain! After the boy was kidnapped and one of the paladin PC's died trying to help save the town they were in (he wanted to switch characters don't hate me), the leftover paladin swore he would kill Strahd. Seemed pretty thematic for vengeance so he switched his oath mid-campaign. Loved it :), great video Colby!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Awesome!

[@joshd4119]

Man, that’s some really cool RP

[@destroyerinazuma96]

Makes sense.

[@BLynn]

Level 1:(see above) [paladin 1 & race] Levels 2:(see above) [paladin 2 & fighting-style] Levels 3:(@14:48) [paladin 3 & sub-class] Levels 4:(@19:09) [paladin 4 & ASI] Levels 5:(@20:15) [paladin 5] Levels 6:(@22:17) [paladin 6] Levels 7:(see above) [fighter 1 & fighting-style] Levels 8:(@29:17) [fighter 2] Levels 9:(@29:51) [fighter 3 & sub-class] Levels 10:(@37:30) [fighter 4 & ASI] Levels 11:(@38:02) [paladin 7] Levels 12:(@38:54) [paladin 8 & ASI] Levels 13:(@39:28) [paladin 9] Levels 14:(@46:48) [paladin 10] Levels 15:(@47:11) [paladin 11] Levels 16:(@48:07) [paladin 12 & ASI] Levels 17:(@48:43) [paladin 13]

[@Jacob-sb3su]

My story: My character, Immotus was an Oath of Glory paladin. I had a lot of fun with him and played him all the way to lvl 20 with my group. As we were begining to disband the campaign and start a new one, I wanted to keep playing Paladin but try a different subclass out, Oath of Vengeance. So I wrote this story where Immotus, after a long retirement and at old age, gets robbed by bandits and killed. In a seething rage and in has dying moments a fragment of his soul held onto his armor through sheer will. Many years later an adventurer, my new character found the armor, and was infused with Immotus rage filled soul, and so Viego the Oath of Vengeance paladin was born, and with the experience of Immotus on his side he went about claiming vengeance on evil people. I only wished the race Reborn had been around when we played it

[@DnDDeepDive]

love it!

[@shawnbooker2142]

That is a great backstory, well thought out!

[@vacantsix1586]

You could have had the armor come alive and simply flavor the warforged race for use (im doing that now with my vengeance paladin who was shoved into a scarecrow so..... Yeah)

[@Exactix]

you could call him a ruined king, heh ?

[@jm.519]

One word: Hexblade. Even though it would delay everything by 1 level, I would take it at level 2, so when you do character creation, just leave your strength at 15, and never have to touch it again. Pump up charisma, which improves your hit, spell save DC, improves social interactions, gives you access to a couple of cantrips and a couple of spells you wouldn't have otherwise. Also gives you hex, which you could stack on top of your vow, and crit on a 19 or 20 while rolling at advantage. Even though its just one, it also gives you a spell slot that recharges on a short rest. It also works with the Elf build as well, put elven accuracy into charisma, and you don't have to worry about it.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Aye. I get a little tired of Hexblade dips, personally, limiting myself to one per quarter :). But it's definitely viable.

[@jm.519]

@@DnDDeepDive Honestly, that's fair. I remember you saying that in another video you try to limit it to once per quarter.

[@4thelols606]

Here is my Oath of Vengeance story: I was playing a Paladin in a homebrew campaign. I told my DM that I was unsure about my Oath but I wanted to play a Paladin. I told him by level 3 I would figure it out, but was going to draw on his experiences from the campaign to shape my decision. My backstory was I was an old war hero that left my farm in search of treasure to provide my family a better life. My last day at home I gave my daughter a doll I found at the local market, and promised her I would be back soon. While we were level 2 we came across a village that was completely destroyed by Kobolds. No survivors, but in the rubble I found a half burnt doll, exactly like the one I gave my daughter. At that moment I swore to rid the world of Kobolds to keep my daughter safe. I traveled the rest of the campaign with that doll in my pack. Still the best character I think I’ve ever played!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Daaaaang.

[@TheCoulsonlax]

Agreed. Oath of Vengeance just works so well from a technical and thematic experience.

[@Wellgee]

I always prepared command word as a paladin. "Grovel" can make an enemy prone and prevent verbal spell components. Also great tool for roleplaying and forcing an enemy captive to "confess" something.

[@Ouch193]

“Depression!”

[@Dream-Reaver]

Fallen Aasimar that has polearm master and sentinel would also makes a great vengeance paladin with the +2 charisma +1 strength and the necrotic shroud goes great with the vengeance paladin abilities.

[@ChadMcCoy]

I second this one as well. Assimar is a nice touch. I was going to use Fallen Assimar for fear redundancy with an Oath of Conquest Paladin but opted for Scourge for the radiant damage boost.

[@Puffinbar]

I’m currently playing as Scourge Aasimar conquest paladin. I can’t wait till level 7!

[@ChadMcCoy]

@@Puffinbar I enjoyed it! Will you be multi classing? I multi classes mine and I named the character Würfelgott. German for dice god. Two attacks (Pal 5) + path of bezerker for a bonus attack (Barb 3) + reckless attack for advantage (Barb 2) = 6 d20s in combat plus Lucky if I really need to reroll. A Flame Tongue great sword (2d6 slashing + 2d6 fire) and Smite (2d8) is even more dice (12d6 and 6d8 with three attacks). Great Weapon Fighting is said to be suboptimal but I took it for all these dice rolls. Add Great Weapon Master (10 damage) + AOE radiant (4 per turn at level 8) + Assimar Radiant (8 at level 8 to one attack) + strength and rage da.age and we have ourselves a nice little beast. I might dip into Fighter for more dice (action surge and battle master). Not bad for my very first campaign

[@Puffinbar]

@@ChadMcCoy Started level 2, so I was 1 Pal, 1 Warlock. Currently 3/3 Pact of the Blade for Charisma attacks so I'm SAD. Rest of the way is conquest paladin baby! If campaign goes longer than level 10, might go 5 Lock for 2x Smite burst.

[@ChadMcCoy]

@@Puffinbar good luck!

[@SoI_Badguy]

My first campaign character was an Oath of Vengeance centaur. Wound up getting the Horseshoes of speed, so I took the mobile feat... Wound up with 80ft of innate movement speed, and the ability to cast haste. With all that movement speed I could actually make use of the centaur's bonus hoof attacks (you need to move 30ft first) Was super fun. Run across the battlefield and smash 3 or 4 enemies on your way to save an ally, and the whole time they can't take opportunity attacks because you have mobile. Wound up being this high AC super mobile skirmisher that could be literally anywhere and drop smites anywhere you wanted... all the while concentrating on something like bane. Was super duper fun to play.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Vroom vroom!

[@CalebS1330]

@@DnDDeepDive Hold up! KZbin's translate feature is translating "vroom vroom" as "devout devout" and I think that is just fantastically appropriate.

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@CalebS1330 😂😂

[@Ouch193]

I’m getting “Pious Pious!”

[@ToAskEternity]

+1 for a Conquest Paladin build! This build was awesome Colby, perfect for my next Pally. Thanks for the great info.

[@JeremyGloaming]

Colby, I landed a 74 point Nova round last night at level 6 with this build. The table was in awe. Felt great! Thank you for making these videos!

[@OniKenshi]

My Oath of Vengeance Paladin was a guardsman in an enormous corrupt city-state. Witnessing so many villains escape justice drove him to swear his oath so that he could fight evil under infallible Divine law, rather than man's flawed law.

[@insertphrasehere15]

I built something recently that was pretty god tier when it came to nova damage. Using the 'Necromancer' Class from Valda's Spire of Secrets (not an official source, but is published). 7 Levels of Necromancer (Death Knight), with three levels of Paladin (Vengeance). The death knight has a pool of "lay on harms" that they can essentially smite with on a weapon attack hit, so you essentially get to smite while you smite, in addition to the fact that the Necromancer class is a caster with full spell slot progression, so your Paladin Smites are very high level. The nova damage was pretty insane.

[@mickthelick5788]

Have to say I loved the Homebrew classes and subclasses in Valda's Spire of Secrets but unfortunately my DM will not allow me to play any of them at our table for fear they are overpowered and not properly balanced. I find this a little ironic when I'm able to play a Peace or Twilight Domain Cleric (which are potentially game breakingly strong).

[@commonsenseless9894]

​@mickthelick5788 Im playing a Martyr from that book in one of my games, and it's such a fun class. I honestly wish it was in the core game

[@insertphrasehere15]

@@commonsenseless9894 Martyr is from Galdur's... But that book is also fantastic! Really excited about DC20 honestly. Not sad to leave 5e behind.

[@commonsenseless9894]

@@insertphrasehere15 Valda's spire of secrets also has a class called Martyr. Page 115. Very fun, like paladin but cooler if you ask me, even though paladin is probably more powerful

[@kingp2272]

I'm really grateful for the content you put out here. I know it's very time consuming. One thing I hope you consider for future videos would be linking completed character sheets in your descriptions (maybe via DnDBeyond) -- and/or in addition to the level markers you have (which are very helpful!), also mention the multiclass you've chosen in the marker along with the levels. This would make it easier to scan through your videos regarding specific ideas around multiclassing, and I've found when/how/why you make your multiclassing choices one of the most valuable parts of you videos. I think the latter option would be a much easier and time efficient solution that would be just as helpful as he first. Infinite thanks Sir!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! Just in case you didn't know, I *do* put out written “cheat sheets” for the builds, but it *is* actually the one thing I give as a benefit to members of the channel - here’s a little video I did explaining why if you’re at all interested - I’d love to have you as a member! (it’s pretty cheap : ) ) kzbin.info/www/bejne/paHCgoGvnL6paac

[@hakonatli]

I really love your content but this video in particular I like. I have some difficulty in applying some of your builds to my brand of roleplaying but a build that is so heavy in one class like this one works perfectly thanks!

[@camf269]

My favourite vengeance pally is one that started at 3, the backstory allowed for the tragic oath-swearing. A former-mercenary turned bandit captain (picturing the character Harkyn from Fallen Lords) manages a (costly) total-party-kill of low-level adventurers guarding a merchant caravan, and happens to be standing over a dying cleric of unspecified denomination as he checks for spoils. The cleric tries to speak, offering the captain his massive, rune-engraved, glowing iron chain focus. The uncomprehending bandit leader accepts the offering and puts it over his head to hang around his neck at which point, with the cleric's dying laughter, it activates a searing, holy light, triggering a BSOD/trauma faith-reset, converting all his bandit captain/fighter levels into level 3 vengeance pally. He betrays and kills his murderous fellow bandits then vows beyond that to hunt not only other bandits and monsters but also the corrupt merchants, officials, and nobles who caused the conditions that turned so many to banditry. So now we've got an untrained paladin with no religious or dogmatic knowledge who only knows he has to serve 'the light' that he sees when he grasps his iron chain focus, with a terrible rep with his bandit former comrades, the law, and the populace in general for all his crimes, but determined to hunt evil (in all its forms) anyway. All in service of 'The Light'.

[@Onorel]

When I ran Descent into Avernus for my group (bit of spoilers ahead), I suggested to my sister-in-law that she played Reya Mantlemorn, which in the module is supposed to be just an NPC with the veteran statblock who helps the group. We both felt that the Oath of Vengeance paladin was a perfect fit for that character. If you know the story a little bit, you know that her whole city was dragged into hell, and her spiritual leader was to blame, because he sold not only his soul, but also the soul of everyone whoi signed the Creed Resolute, which is, well, pretty much everyone, including her. So yeah, Oath of vengeance, right?

[@DnDDeepDive]

I skipped most of the comment because I haven't played Avernus but I think we're going to one day! :P

[@Onorel]

@@DnDDeepDive It's cool, that's why I put the spoiler warning! Really fun module, my players loved it, and I loved running it.

[@cletusthiberious2006]

I didn't know Homelander played DnD

[@brunowalkowiak3432]

Thanks!

[@brunowalkowiak3432]

Can you do a ranking video of your builds (like you do with your damage and nova builds) but with the tanks and tankiness? Thanks!

[@seanholmes3658]

Yeah I have been considering Gloomstalker/Samurai Multiclass for the Nova burst. Grab the Sharpshooter feat, and with the Samurai ability to grant you advantage to all your attacks for a short time, action surge, and the Gloomstalker extra attacks during the first round, you should be hitting most of those attacks. This is only a couple of times per long rest for the advantage to attacks, but once per short rest you can get a good chunk of attacks.

[@insertphrasehere15]

Gloomstalker+Echo knight is also pretty amazing, getting like 8 attacks in round one every short rest is pretty insane. (You have to get within 30 feet though, because the echo can only attack with melee). Note that because of the gloomstalker darkness invisibility, you can get advantage pretty often without needing anything extra.

[@christopherthefirst]

I would like to say I got permission to rewrite my Oath of Vengence Paladin in the Curse of Strahd campaign to fit this build. I was Aasimar protector, but I hadn’t used any of the abilities so the DM was totally fine with it. On Thursday my level 5 Paladin did 103 damage in one round! We left on a cliff hanger though with the enemy still standing. A wizard made my weapon magical for an hour before combat. First hit double natural 20s. Level 2 smite on a fiend. Second strike missed badly. GWM bonus strike from the original crit with another level 2 smite. So thank you my friend. I’m glad I found your channel. It was righteous.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha ha! Awesome!!!

[@christopherthefirst]

@@DnDDeepDive I have a rule question for pole arm master. If I’m 10ft away from an enemy and attack them with my Glaive on my turn, and then on the enemy’s turn they move 5ft closer: 1) does that trigger PAM’s reaction since my reach is both 10ft and 5ft? 2) Or it doesn’t trigger PAM because it only triggers when they enter from outside the original 10ft range?

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@christopherthefirst I would think that it would only trigger when they first move to within 10 feet of you, and not again. As always, consult with your DM!

[@quendi5557]

Loved the echo knight part. I was expecting Champion but the echo knight was a welcome surprise. Echo Knight could also go well with the Living Shadow Dark Gift since it would be their shadow coming alive and being given more substance.

[@ghostfather1390]

double crit chance is hard to pass up, makes Champion fighter one of my favorite 3-5 level dips, I have never understood why Battlemaster seems so popular for a dip, a handful of dice to use for special attacks has always seemed so much less useful overall than doubling your chance to crit I, too, was pleasantly surprised by the echo knight, I must say

[@quendi5557]

@@ghostfather1390 battlemaster is stupid versatile that's why, but yeah I do feel like people underestimate Champion.

[@saintpaulsnail]

Going two more levels of Fighter gives another ASI

[@quendi5557]

@@saintpaulsnail Aye, but it does delay spell slot progression.

[@saintpaulsnail]

@Quendi555 True, but the ASI can improve an important stat. Improving to hit stat has some benefit. I acknowledge that it's a tradeoff as so many choices are.

[@darrenromanko2414]

Story time, how I went vengeance. Playing in a campaign (over two years running now) and started as a cleric of Tempest. By level 8 or 9 I was still playing him more like a fighter. I had party members for early sessions thinking I was a fighter in fact. But, as the story unfolds the big baddy killed off all the gods in this setting. Over several levels my character finally accepts what happened, and starts taking Paladin in this time to go more into the melee fighter roll. It also fit the halting spell progression from a story side also. By Pali 3 I swore vengeance (great story timing) on behalf of the fallen gods (especially mine) and starts accepting I can not change what happened, but my path is clear moving forward. Campaign is a short jump from level 14. Come on sweet sweet 2nd Attack

[@DnDDeepDive]

nice!

[@cowboybigfoot6577]

His low whispery voice is like he's sharing info he's not supposed to be telling me.

[@luizkormann314]

yeah I mean, great damage, but still when the nova round ends, u still have polearm+greatweapon+haste in a bellow average endurance character, probably is the most viable nova build so far

[@LeakysTV]

I will probably gonna switch polearm master with sentinel for less nova and more lockdown

[@Johnny0Masters]

@@LeakysTV why not both?

[@LeakysTV]

@@Johnny0Masters cause I have already use it 🙄

[@auripeters3240]

@@LeakysTV why are you disrespectful lmao

[@fkndonnie6476]

Playing curse of Strahd, I made my character background as a kind of mirror of the Mandalorian. Gillian’s ravaged by the undead and I was the only one left alive after the “Knights of Kelemvor” ran off the evil horde. My family was slain but my mother’s body was nowhere to be found. I asked the dm to play this into the story. I was then trained to fight against the undead by the kinghts. I just escaped death house with my part and gained 3rd level, now a vengeance Paladin.

[@Cynndora]

Relentless Avenger really shines if you take both Polearm Master & Sentinel, because now a creature enter's your reach, you hit them, reduce their speed to 0 for the rest of that turn, and then walk away without them having a chance to hit you back even if they have a 10ft reach themselves.

[@theblindjedi41]

Yay!!! Echo Knight was used. I love that Fighter archetype. The love the flavour of it you gave; that it's the ghosts of those slain in your past.

[@LuisOderKarl]

Hey Colby, first of all great video as always. Some time ago I was building an oath of vengeance pally for my campaign, too, though i switched to a Samurai fighter rather early, because I thought a nova build could be a little overwhelming for my players (was thinking to make the character a dmpc, I'm DMing for a rather small group). She was an Archer with Elven Accuracy and Sharpshooter and her sustainable damage was terrifying, while also being able to attack from 600 feet! The problem I had with this character was that I found it hard to double class out of fighter since there was an extra attack basically every 5 levels and it felt wrong to delay that for say an extra d6 per attack. Would love to see your take on the concept, I don't think we had a Samurai on the channel. Either way I'm happy for every video you put out. Have a glorious day.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! Ok on the list!

[@MrMrcollymore]

Playing this build right now and I'm loving it!

[@jameswhisnant1555]

Hey Colby! Long time fan, I host a 5e PvP arena and have been doing this and had the love for the numbers for years now. Just commenting to say hey! And that I haven't forgotten that nearly 20 builds ago now, you said you'd add the underplayed racial feat to your build list. The "OP" dwarven fortitude! Haha. Love the content!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks! Still on the list! :)

[@JSephH76]

So I want to preface this by saying that I absolutely love this build! It's one of your best in my opinion! HOWEVER! I think there is a fundamental flaw in the calculations for the build, specifically in how Nova builds are measured. The goal of a Nova build is NOT "How can I do the most damage in A turn" it is instead "how can I do the most damage in THE FIRST turn" or at the very least "how can I do the most damage as fast as possible." The reason I say this is that the goal of a Nova build is to do as much damage as possible and bring down a baddie as fast as possible to eliminate an enemy and turn the action economy in your favor. So if I have character A who can do 1000 damage in a single turn but takes 4 set up rounds to do it and character B who does 200/round but can do it every round from the very start of the fight then they are accomplishing the same thing. (Actually B is far far better and more versatile for a number of reasons but you get the idea) The more front loaded the better for Nova builds. For this reason I think it's necessary when comparing Nova builds to compare the damage DISTRIBUTION as well as the damage. A great weapon master fighter with a glaive who does his full Nova round on the first turn is in my opinion more valuable than a spellcaster who does 50% more damage but doesn't do it until round 3. Because the great weapon master would also be doing things on turns 2 and 3 making more attacks and raising his 3-turn damage total. But if you're comparing what one character can do in one turn vs what another can do in 2 or 3 then the numbers stop being comparable. At this point I think I'm beginning to get repetitious so I'll end it here. It's always fun to see what big numbers we can achieve given the right circumstances or set up time. But if you're going to compare damage between your builds I think it would be worthwhile to add a distribution element as well. Turns 1-2 or 3 with damage done in each turn as well as the total and see how it averages out with more weight given to earlier turns. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk and please forgive my long-windedness!

[@bluesman2050]

Strongly agree. Willing to sacrifice substantial damage for the ability to do my damage on round 1.

[@JSephH76]

@@bluesman2050 I appreciate you reading all the way through my rambling lol. I was incredibly sleep deprived when I wrote it. I may go back and edit for brevity

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

I know this a rather late reply but I feel you missed something - The only thing to consider here that you didn't mention at all is your party members and the targets you are fighting - even if it takes you a few turns to set up whatever you are going to do when your important round comes up it can be really great for your party in many situations. So while the whole party better not be waiting till round 4 (or later) to achieve anything, and I do agree the earlier you can pull off whatever your combo is generally the better, it is not a problem if these signature power moves are only worth the setup against the toughest BBEG's of the campaign, or your party is taking a bit more damage before your move is ready if they can take it easily. If the power move is good enough it can be more than worth it for the party as a whole, they may even want to build to actively improve the effectiveness of your combo.

[@drefox91]

Another great video my friend. Always nice to see you having fun while making these videos, take care!

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks!

[@TheDeerInTheHeadligh]

one of my first ever characters was a vengeance paladin. her hometown had been razed by a band of greedy mercenaries. i think the best thing about her though was that once she felt strong enough, she took the party on a detour to slay the mercenary captain and destroy his camp, then promptly retired, leaving the rest of the party to deal with that whole "end of the world" quest they were working on.

[@daltondavidson7997]

Dang I’ve been waiting so long for this build. I knew it would be strong, but gosh dang I didn’t know it would be that strong. This might be the best subclass in the game. Totally want to play it!

[@StriderZessei]

After being disappointed with Tulok's build for Vergil, I realized this is what I've been looking for all along. Thanks, Colby!

[@honorablevalor6337]

Wow, almost a pure build. This episode got me thinking of back stories and character progression; good on you! I can see a lot of different ways to approach this character in an RP sense.

[@michaellavy3269]

Love the build! I love both of these subclasses so it’s fun to see them combined. One question: did you consider that the channel divinity and summoning Echo both take a bonus action, so you’d either have to wait an extra turn to get the burst round or forgo the bonus action attack during the burst round?

[@DnDDeepDive]

I suppose my assumption is that we'd just have the Echo out already. It lasts until it's destroyed, you dismiss it, or you're incapacitated, so I don't know why we wouldn't just have it out all the time when we weren't in combat. Just my little shadow buddy. :)

[@Tronder_91]

Hey, fantastic guide. Borrowing some of this for my character build and i just got to level 2. where thinking about the fighting style and we are playing with a few extra hand books, so i have a few more choices then the standard once. Blessed warrior - Blind Fighting - interception - Protection. Was thinking about your answer that none of the original choices where super good, so my question is: are any of those new once any better? Was maybe thinking of 2 cleric can-trips as a blessed warrior, but not sure which 2 to choose. Blind Fighting may also come in handy since i don't have dark vision, but would always be able to see things to trigger my Polearm Master - Opportunity Attack Keep up the Fantastic content WG Gray

[@switchxb]

In a game I was running, a friend chose to play a Bilbo-esque older halfling that swore an oath to destroy a tarrasque when it's nearby burrowing shook his house and broke his favorite porcelain cup. He wore the broken away finger loop of the teacup on a chain around his neck to serve as a grim reminder, lest his resolve ever falter.

[@DnDDeepDive]

ha!

[@scottmcley5111]

Like the Mr. Hankey intro. HIIIDY HO! 😆

[@oskarbeaujean554]

:D How funny! This was my first ever Character in DnD, only reached lvl 9 sadly. I played a kalashtar and rp the echo knight as a manifistation of my quori.

[@darylchambers9138]

You did it Colby, you went full Batman. Love this build!

[@endreverland811]

Brilliant video as ever. Those numbers are insane! :O Thanks a bunch for sharing Colby :)

[@DnDDeepDive]

Gracias!

[@jamesshuttlesworth]

I played a Vengeance Paladin once: Within the first few months of 5e's release, I had a group finally decide we wanted to go from 3.5 to 5e so our always DM friend created a campaign wherein I played a level 2 Half-Elf paladin who lived in a small town with his party that consisted of friends and neighbors from the same small town. I had the typical Half elf back story, mommy was a human female that was seduced by a wandering bard that never wandered that way again after his mother became pregnant. She lived and worked at the inn, having been in a relationship with the innkeeper. My character was a follower of the Triad (Torm, Try, and Illmater) and was apprenticed (?) to the local sheriff. For a while the town had been prosperous as they seemed to have ran off the bandits and other local troubles (goblins, orcs, etc)but the next town over, which was a couple days ride away, was having troubles and had been requesting aid. Long story short, we went to investigate and many shenanigans and hijinks ensued and we leveled up. I still wasn't sure what path I wanted so I held off and left it to the DMs hands as to which type of event would set the tone for my oath. It took us 2 days to get there, 2 days to investigate, a to deal with the situation and help with the aftermath, and stayed 1 more day to bask in the glory of being small time heroes. By the time we were close to home we saw smoke. Yes, the DM had decided that the triggering event would be the destruction of the town and the cruel deaths of his mother and those unfortunate to have been chained inside the inn as it burnt down. For 2 days my character lay on the ground inside the burnt out shell of the inn, alternating between wailing and praying for help from the gods, to passing out from sheer exhaustion. On the third day, my party felt badly but had enough of the crying so they were just going to leave quietly but as the dawn of the third day broke, they noticed my character standing silently just outside the radius of the camp fire. He had smeared his arms and armor in black and then he went in their midst where he knelt down and swore his undying hatred and vengeance upon and and all that were connected to this horrible act.

[@gameover40567]

So, one of my favorite builds I have ever played was a pacifist Life domain Cleric. I had to curb my attacking tendencies to just aid and buff my allies and de-buff the enemies. For the most part I could not do any damage directly. The only exception I made was for Spirit Guardians thinking that it was the spirits my deity sent to aid doing all of the damage. It was a challenge and some of the most fun I have ever had as a player. It was surprisingly easy as a Life domain cleric to do this, but I wonder how difficult playing a pacifist would be as any other class...

[@Zintavaba]

Does anyone else think that Cody’s voice makes DnD Optimized almost ASMR?

[@DnDDeepDive]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZu8Zp-Znsefq80

[@Zintavaba]

Oh, I guess a lot of other people think that, too, lol.

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@Zintavaba ;)

[@hkcwushu]

Starting campaign this Saturday and want to go mainly paladin for our small party of 3. Starting at level 5. Was initially going to go Pally 4 and Warlock 1 for a hexadin build over 12 levels. But saw this video and rethinking (the hexadin build seems so bonus action heavy, vow of enmity, hexblade curse, bless, hex/hunters mark etc), the foe may be dead by then! After seeing this video I might start Fighter 1 for that constitution proficiency instead, and then pally 4. Yes delay extra attack, but polearm bonus attack will suffice for 1 level. Thank you for the ideas, much appreciated!

[@wizzz1967cm]

As soon as you post this video I had so much hope then I realized it wasn't Conquest but it's another good option keep up the good work hopefully You do one for Conquest

[@captainkaveman4470]

Won't lie I saw oath of and immediately thought conquest

[@ChadMcCoy]

I second this. I built an Oath of Conquest Paladin multi classed with a Path of the Berserker barbarian fully knowing some people don't like Berserker but I wanted that bonus attack and damage reduction.

[@jeffdybdal656]

I’m starting a Paladin in a game tomorrow. The plan is a 4 year campaign that goes to high level play (20 hopefully) I’m trying to build into conquest to fully maximize on the fear mechanic. It’s going to be sword and board build. I’ve built a standard array Fallen Aasamar 15 str (want to be in plate mail eventually), 10 dex, 13 con, 8 Int, 12 wis, 17 cha. My plan is to go Paladin 5 (Fey touched feat at L4 for bless, misty step & round out charisma then essentially you have 3 attacks in big fights with spiritual weapon), dip into hexblade to attack using Charisma instead of strength and get shield spell, then go Paladin to 8 to quickly max Charisma (9th level with awesome aura), from there Whispers Bard to 5th (not so much for the fear mechanic than for the psychic blades 5x per short rest) and all the extra spell slots, utility magic and great party buffs, likely going Resilient Con with the ASI (14th level), round off Hexblade to L2 to get the 2nd pact spell and Eldritch Mind & Devils Sight. Then just finish out whispers bard to 10th, likely adding +2 Constitution. If you can prep for combat, you can get a 7th level Armor of Agathys up and drop hexblade’s curse on the big bad. Round 1 you can start up Aasamar Necrotic Shroud and spin up a spiritual weapon (+20 necrotic damage from the shroud and +6 damage from hexblade’s curse) and maneuver into any frightened creatures spaces to lock them in the aura and get the free 4 psychic damage. Round 2 you can start swinging away remembering to smite 5d8 radiant, psychic blades 5d6 psychic damage, necrotic shroud +20 necrotic damage and +6 hexblade’s curse if you can hit your cursed target, who you crit on 19 or 20 which doubles damage dice if/when crit.) You’ll only have 5th level spells, but you’ll have a 6th & 7th level slot (Aid & Armor of Agathys both are incredible when upcast). Also, Counterspell with magic secrets gets you the bard boost of 1/2 proficiency on counterspell checks against higher level spells & magical secrets Spirit Guardians can shred anyone locked into your fear aura if you have multiple targets on lockdown.

[@Comicsluvr]

Father Maxwell Grimm, my Oath of Vengeance Paladin/War Cleric multiclass. Like many, I started out in Curse of Strahd and we left Borovia after Strahd was defeated. I had actually started as a Cleric because we had a Paladin in the party (as well as a Wizard, 2 Rogues, a Monk and a Ranger). When the Paladin Player asked the DM to swap characters, it was allowed and I inhereted his Plate armor. After I resurrected the Silver Dragon Arkenvost, I became a Paladin of his order (multiclassed after 9 levels in Cleric). In combat, if we needed control, I would cast Spirit Guardians to tie up the front line. If we were needing damage, I would use Hunter's Mark. 2 Attacks, with Advantage if I'd taken my Vow against the enemy, each doing 1D8+5 base, +1D6 for Hunter's Mark, plus I would usually only use basic Smite because it's 2D8 for a 1st level spell slot. So, each attack was doing 3D8+5, striking with Advantage on every attack for a minute.

[@rjanssafttheiii4697]

Evil doesn’t deserve discretion, they get the deluxe justice package.

[@HealingSwordsman]

I really appreciate how you also weigh viability in terms of progression during thr game.

[@trevorgreenough6141]

I think, echo knight could take an idea from Tasha's, specifically, features that use proficiency bonus instead of ability modifiers.

[@tonokumo]

Hello, Colby! Just a heads-up, in your D&D Optimized playlist this video is between videos #66 and #67, and video #58 is between #62 and #64. I'm not sure if that's a thing that only appears on my end, or yours, but I just wanted to send a message just in case. Have an optimized day! :-)

[@bobdole4eva1]

I am choosing to believe that this video is a direct response to my comment on your Hexblade video about how much fun I'm having with Vengeance Paladin and you can't tell me different 🤣

[@bobdole4eva1]

Also I'm really feeling what you said about struggling to multiclass out of Vengeance Paladin...as awesome as 4 levels of Fighter sounds, I want 18 Str at level 8 and Haste at level 9 so bad

[@TStirlingLittle]

love this build, its so focused and tight! paladin mechanics are so hype. keep up the good work! My group is about to branch out from DnD soon, and it makes me wish there were more of you! Starfinder has so much opportunity for fun character builds, but not enough content creators to help me get inspired. Ill just have to do it the old fashioned way.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Thanks!

[@lionanatorgaming3298]

Going to be playing a Leonin Oath of Vengeance Paladin soon starting at level 3 with a free feat. This video was entertaining and has made me reconsider a few things.

[@iAmEnenra]

While I agree with the notion of “how often do you need to do over 300 damage to a single target in one round?” As someone who is currently in a Monster Hunter inspired game, where each session is some role play, some mystery to find out what the monster is to prep and then fighting a super powerful (and usually home brewed) monster, having that kinda damage can sometimes be a big help. (Note we just fought a home-brewed Dire Troll, the combat in total took about 1 minute and 50 seconds of in game time, and we did 1,300 damage to it since none of us had any fire or acid to stop it’s healing…)

[@johnkelley7194]

For the record, while I have enjoyed many of your videos over the last moth or so since i discovered you, THIS is the one that go me to join you. Partly because I am playing a VP currently, but mostly because this is the first time I realized I could get written copies of the builds. Out-freakin-standing! Keep up the good work. (But bring back the heavier intro occasionally, please. It would have been very fitting here.)

[@DnDDeepDive]

Ha ha ok! And thanks :)

[@yasch3696]

At the beginning i thought you were gonna sing an intro to the backgroundmusic as it aligned perfectly rhythm- and soundwise :'D

[@hanneskling1344]

I basically played this character in a campaign, the Echo was his shadow and it was an absolute blast to play!

[@Fr4nZeR]

Jajajaja. I was laughing for like 5 minutes after the "reasonable sucks" part! Thank you, you crazy little piece of cheese of a man!

[@DnDDeepDive]

[@oathboundhero1782]

"Just because it's a butt doesn't mean it doesn't qualify as a heavy weapon. It's super thick."

[@dionisiospanou1681]

So, I did a build on this on high level DnD campaign. I had 13 levels on Pally and 3 on Fighter, with only gr8 weapon master feat! My equipment was a great sword with +2 on attack and dmg rolls, +1d8 phychic dmg on hit and the ability to crit with 19. Once I had a nova in which I did 502 dmg against a 20 AC boss with Haste, Advantage on all attacks and a Bless from Cleric by unloading all my smites and incarnation uses!!!

[@joshrossman3796]

This is my new favorite build!!

[@PalleRasmussen]

Best Paladin there is. Very strong. Another very strong is Battlemaster with Greatsword, though I do tend to take three levels of Bear Barb with that it is a really difficult choice. I would love to see your BM build. Also a "Hoplite" build; PA Master, Sentinel, Shield Master, is quite powerful. That is another build I would like to see you optimise.

[@Dave004]

Great build, love Paladins. I prefer the classic Spear and Shield build with Polearm. When you add dueling fighting style you basically do the same damage as you would with a Glaive or Halberd but you get the +2 AC bonus. Downside, V/S spells can be tough to cast if your DM is very specific about needing a free hand to do so. If they're lenient with that, then I think Spear Shield is the option to go with personally. And its an obvious but 1 lvl Hexblade does allow you to concentrate on CHA only and of course Hexblade's Curse combined with Vow of Enmity means you have even more chances of critting and adding those lovely smites!

[@ThreeOttersInATrenchcoat]

By the end of this build...that Kobold never knew what hit him. Rest in peace little dude 🙏

[@DnDDeepDive]

ha!

[@abramgoode424]

I know this is an old video but it’s making me think of one of my favorite characters I’ve played. His name was Trapmaster Kax. He was a level 7 Assassin then level 3-7 vengeance Paladin. I originally built Him as a assassin/battle master, but I had a weird dream where a kid looked at my character sheet and said, “you should go vengeance paladin.” When I woke up, I realized he was right.

[@JohnTCampbell1986]

I've been thinking about Fighter/Rogue multiclass for a while now, thinking some kind of elf, possibly eladrin/shadar kai for the mobility (elven accuracy), 5 levels champion for extended crit range and 2 attacks then loads in rogue and critfishing for loads of sneak attack dice, will be curious to see your take on it though if you keep working on it

[@misterb6]

I have a Rogue/Fighter currently. He's Eladrin, and went with Fighter 3 for Battle Master, the rest in Swashbuckler. Took Brace and Riposte as the maneuvers I use (also took precision but it never gets used) so can frequently generate two sneak attacks per round.

[@quendi5557]

I'd put shadar kai for the boost to survivability on the teleport after level 3 and less reliance on charisma for things unless it's the spring eladrin.

[@rolandszabo6588]

@@misterb6 im sorry to be the party pooper here, but sneak attack is only possible once per turn.

[@misterb6]

@@rolandszabo6588 Correct! Once per *turn*, not once per *round*. That's where the battlemaster maneuvers come in. Brace and riposte each let you attack on someone else's turn, thus getting two possible sneaks in a round.

[@Bwomackusmc]

I’ve built a Veng Paladin as a Crit Fisher. I know it’s not the most popular but the great weapon feat, coupled with Vow of Enmity. Multi-classing with Champion. I use Great Sword for powerful damage. Focusing all the pain on the big bodies or bosses. I might take Slasher, even though people don’t seem to like it. See slowing people down is powerful for a Veng Pal that’s keeping targets from moving. My smites can rock so hard on a Crit for huge spike damage.

[@DangerN8]

if you MC to Ranger, you get Hunters prey archetype at 3 which gives colossus slayer once per turn for 1d8 damage. Every turn

[@Rabijeel]

Yeah, I had the same Problem - the "Batman-Problem". Rogue/Fighter is great for a SpecOps Soldier (add Druid for becoming a SEAL - Pun intended). But Vengance Pally works so great and rewards RP-wise so greatly, only a Twilight Cleric can add up to that. Primary Wisdom (Perception, planning and Predicting) and then Charisma (ntimidation) - all else is secondary (Dex/Stealth as well as Armor Requirements). Spells are "Gadgets" you suddenly "pull out of a Pouch" fluffwise. Whenever I start to create Rogue/Fighter I end up Cleric/Paladin or similar. The best Idea came from a Friend of me - a "no Magic"-Char from a Shaolin Temple-esque Assassin Guild (Yeah, there Batman came around the Corner agan in the form of Raz alGul as "Enemy"....). It was Inquisitive/Battle Master allow for much Feats and additional Damage in Coop-Combat (Putting them lorewise to work in Teams of Two normally).

[@Ch3tSt3adman]

Currently rolling a Vengeance Paladin with a 3 level dip into Hexblade so I can use Charisma for all my weapon attacks. I took Strength up to 15 to wear plate and dumped the rest into Charisma and Constitution. I took great weapon master and defense fighting style (swapped from great weapon fighting) and am using a greatsword. DM gave us all homebrewed legendaries at about level 15. Mine lets me choose to crit once per long rest and reroll 1 and 2s on attack rolls. Devastating when you pair it with great weapon master to get the additional attack on crit and a level 4 smite. We went up against a black dragon recently. I spent my first 2 turns casting haste on myself, hexing the dragon and using vow of enmity. On the third round, I went buck and downed him. Adult black dragon from max HP to dead. The table was speechless. Vengeance Paladins are fucking awesome.

[@thundyrcat]

My daughter's D&D group lost a player and they wanted another player for their new campaign...I may have started this build. I normally do a rogue, ranger, or of course, monk...she told me I had to be a more beefy character...so here I am about to play this at first level tonight...I am pretty stoked. I might have got carried away with my back story, which ended up changing her story a little bit because she loved it.

[@Rivnwolf]

You are amazing, my guy. My partner gets jealous of your voice tho 😅😂😊

[@deantitus9734]

Don't forget this very important point about Aura Of Protection: All saving throws includes death saving throws also!!

[@sebastianvega6613]

I wanted vengeance on the corrupted church that killed my noble family to rule their kingdom

[@syrupchugger421]

I had no idea I could NOVA that hard Now in sad I went Warhammer and shield. Thanks for the video

[@kableedge9278]

Very late comment: However, I'd love to see you do a damage report on this paladin nova build. Requirements; Race - Bugbear (for 2d6 surprise damage) Weapon - Greatsword 2d6 damage (Hopefully get flame tongue at later levels, for more d6) Class Paladin, with some multiclass into rogue, for you guessed it, Sneak Attack damage. Subclasses are dealers choice, but Vengeance or Conquest seem most viable for advantage gaining stuffs Decently high initiative modifier as we ultimately want to go first for the extra damage from the Bugbear. Enjoy, hopefully you can break any DM with the raw damage being added, especially on a crit!

[@messiah2203]

I used this build for a Curse of Strahd campaign. My guys story: He awoke one day with no memories. He cannot seem to die and has spent four hundred years compelled to track down these shards of a crystal across borovia. Each time he leveled up, he found a piece of a crystal and got flashes of his old memories. Over the course of the campaign it became increasingly clear that 400 years ago, Strahd had been doing a ritial to grant himself immortality. A group of morninglord paladins kicked in the door and shattered a crystal he needed to complete the ritual. The ritual went off, but it was wrong, twisted him into a vampire. With each memory, it became clear that Strahd created my guy through necromancy. He created an undead body and fueled it with the soul of the paladin who shattered the crystal. Strahd tasked him to find the shards to correct the ritual and has since forgotten about his existence. Him dipping into the Echo Knight was him having so many of his memories back that an echo of his original body began manifesting.

[@Connordposey]

Hey Colby, great video as always. I’ve never thought that the unleash incarnation would work with haste but I can’t see a reason it wouldn’t so bravo. I noticed your copy of the Witcher that looks like baptism of fire. I’m not sure if you’ve played the games but I’ve always wondered what your take on a Witcher would look like in 5e, hope we could see a build soon that maybe explores the signs more than other builds I’ve seen.

[@DnDDeepDive]

I am a big fan of the games, books, and show :) - Season 2 soon! I'm not generally into recreating characters from other fictions in D&D, but I've got it on the list regardless :).

[@jbw065]

@@DnDDeepDive just before Christmas - do a build, do a build. I was thinking it’s gotta have Hexblade in it (the original TV show was called the Hexer) and although not thematically on point I was thinking Bladesinger along with it since you need a decent AC but can use only studded leather if you are keeping in with Geralt’s style.

[@jbowers56]

I'm not sure how exactly you calculate the damage, but a thought came to mind about using different level slots that made me think perhaps there was a way to eek out even more damage. When you are blowing your nova round, is it perhaps best to start off using lower level slots in the hopes that you get a crit on some of your attacks to dump the highest level slots into. If you don't end up critting and only have a few attacks left then you start using your higher level slots towards the end of your turn. Maybe you already calculated with this in mind, but it could result in an even higher damage total on your burst round, right? Either way, cool build - really enjoyed it.

[@yarinice1]

You can choose to use divine smite after you know you crit

[@jbowers56]

@@yarinice1 Correct! I was sort of thinking that, yes, always use highest level slots on a crit, but if you *dont* crit on your first attack or two, maybe only use the second highest level slot just in case you *do* crit later on in the round so you get the most out of your doubled dice.

[@TheMindBullets]

My character (Kel-A Conquest Paladin) has a brother (both Half-Orcs) that is a Cleric (Jacoby). They're a bit rough, especially my character as a Conquest Paladin. While attempting to escape the Underdark, a portal was opened by an enemy caster and hordes of undead starting spilling in. Not one to back down from a challenge, my paladin started taking down foe after foe as allies were attempting to open the locked gateway to the surface. The ground shook as a massive demon stepped through the summoned portal. He began destroying the lesser undead nuisances as he waded towards the small group. We recognized that we had no recourse against a being this powerful (we were level 6 I believe). Kel yelled for his brother to get everyone out safely, that he would hold the line. Jacoby hesitated, but recognized the urgency in his younger brothers voice. Everyone was through the now open portal as the Jacoby turned back to the demon. "It's time to leave! I'll go through after you're safe" Jacoby yelled. "No! You first brother. I'm not moving from this spot until I see you walk through that portal!" Jacoby relented, a scowl of defiance on his face as he hurled a fireball towards their enemy, launching himself through the now closing portal. Realization hit the two brothers at the same time with the gate closing on them, Kel wasn't going to make it to the portal before it closed. "Noooo!!" Jacoby yelled as the demon reached down and grabbed ahold of the paladin as he sprinted towards the shrinking exit. A sickening crunch shook Jacoby to his senses as he watched the chest plate of his brother crumple under the might of the demon. With is final breath, Kel wielded his mighty flaming two-handed sword with one hand, separating the demons hand from his wrist. The paladin and the demons severed hand fell towards the cave floor together. The fire from the magical sword diminished as the light left Kel's eyes. The portal closed. Jacoby's world was turned upside down in that moment...to be continued...(this is a pretty fresh thing that happened in the group)

[@DnDDeepDive]

Love it!

[@kevlar427]

I cried a little when you took the strength bumps at fighter 4 and paladin 12 because what I would do here is hint to my GM that I want a belt of giant strength, but I see why you would want to not include magic items. I'd probably keep fighter levels at 3 to get improved divine smite faster.

[@coleriedel751]

This is great HOWEVER I want the Rogue/Fighter build. My Professor Hickle (Gnome Sage background Rouge 3/Fighter 4 "Field Researcher") would love it !

[@chiekohoki]

Oh man this was a fun one. I've been wanting to play a pali for a while! To be fair.... I've been wanting to play a lot of things for a while.

[@DnDDeepDive]

lol same!

[@bt1080]

Did you consider taking one level of hexblade warlock early on? Then you can keep your strength at 15 and just focus on charisma. Also you can Curse enemies and get crits on 19 and add your proficiency bonus to attack damage. Combined with advantage that increase chance to crit is insane.

[@Lourencinii]

Im running as a vengeance paladin on the current descent to avernus campaign that me and my friends are playing. The point is that I’ve took a +2 weapon really soon on it. In the current stat I’m paladin 6 warr 3 and I’m simply destroying all the monsters cause i got a mage friend with me that took haste spell. Usually, per round, I’m doing 100+ damage without smiting. It’s really good to see the numbers, but sometimes can really blow things up regarding the experience of the master and also for the other players, so be careful with that.

[@ArtStyleJ]

I've been waiting for a good vengeance oath build, yay. (I misspelled a word, hence the edit).

[@lucasramey6427]

Now with the race leaks from monsters of the multiverse a great debuffing and battlefield control character could be the new optional fallen Aasimar (changes being the healing and the damage from the Aasimar form being based on your proficiency bonus in their own ways and the form change is now a bonus action so at third level we get a bonus action fear debuff aura we then go 6 levels of Vengeance paladin so you can benefit from a big boost to your saves and having advantage on attack rolls when you need it then we go 14 levels of fiend warlock so we're even more durable and have a full subclass of warlock to benefit from however you want to build it

[@briancox3526]

Reborn Oath of Vengeance Paladin, Haunted one. A Revenant birth touched by a deity becoming a Reborn instead. Haunted by the horror in his past life and betrayal of his death. The Revenant part of him pushes him towards vengeance, then at level 3 that deity leaves a sign pointing towards the one who betrayed him and the oath is sworn.

[@DnDDeepDive]

ooo!

[@briancox3526]

@@DnDDeepDive echos could be manifestations of revenant energy

[@fakjbf3129]

I had a level two paladin who came home to find that his brother had left to follow in my footsteps and find adventure. The party tracked the brother down to an abandoned lich's lair and found him just in time to see him get possessed by the lich's phylactery. My character swore an Oath of Vengeance to destroy the lich and save his brother, and that lich became the BBEG of the campaign.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Love it.

[@JamesWilliams-uh5ih]

I recently started playing dnd again after about 15 years of not playing (rough guess). I was invited down by a friend of mine and honestly wasn't expecting to have a good time around other people (social anxiety is a real bummer at times). I was told that I needed a 6th level character, so I ended up making an emerald dragonborn, 3 into barbarian (bear totem), and 3 into Vengance paladin. Turns out, the campaign I was "joining" was actually just a homebrew added on to the Descent into Avernus campaign. Well, long story short, my dragonborn is being turned into an avatar of Sardior. We were having to fight quite a few guards, and my DM had this homebrew silver dragonborn storm herald drop in on the fight and kill the rest of the guards that were left. The whole party was pretty beaten up, and I hadn't used my channel divinity (didn't see a point in using vow of enmity when it was just guards). It was my turn to go, and I looked around the table and said "Okay, Im going to do a thing... It will most likely fail... But we have to get gone, and quick no matter what the outcome." Used Abjure Enemy on this level 20 storm herald... (We are only level 7 at the time)... And he ended up failing the saving through... My DM looked at me and said "As you do that, you glow a ruby color for a moment... Also... The fact that he failed that saving throw... Is amazing." If you want to read the little backstory I wrote for him just let me know. I really appreciate your videos, even if I don't go for nova builds personally, they have given me a few ideas on future characters!

[@sohkaswifteagle2604]

your action surge/echo knight combo, can also be created with gloomstalker ranger dread ambush abilities if Matt Mercer stuff is not legal at your table

[@dicedragon4171]

Ok so I have only just started the video and your voice and mannerisms are SO calming and welcoming. Have you considered doing ASMR?

[@stevephoenix9]

Hello. I absolutely love your videos keep up the awesome work I m kind of a newbie and I m lost with the damage report after we take the echo knight subclass at the 34th minute. Can you please explain the sequence of that nova round. I m confused with the actions/bonus actions etc etc??? Thank you in advance

[@shadoden1687]

Cody, have you ever thought about adding your wishlist magic items at the end of the the video. No artifacts, some items that you could add to round out your character? I would not number crunch it but it could be fun to see.

[@DnDDeepDive]

I've thought about it, and have thrown one or two suggestions out once in awhile, but will try to remember to do it more often in the Final thoughts :)

[@heitz18]

Hello! How would you go for the armor in order to get the highest AC possible for the Double Bladed Scimitar version? Studded Leather? Great video btw!