The OLIVER/Fiat Connection: How and Why?

Here we take a look at the different Oliver/Fiat tractor models, and what led to their partnership in the first place
 I’m Ross aka “The Oliver Man”. I farm with Oliver and White tractors here in beautiful Southern IN. I have over 30 Oliver and White Tractors in my collection (plus a few other colors). Please Like and Subscribe for more Oliver and White Videos!
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[@ThatOliverGuyChris]

Fiat bought into Hesston in 1977, giving them a route to sell their own tractor in the USA. I remember at one of the first dealer product meetings for Agco they were telling us how they had bought Hesston from the Fiat. "Gone is the Fiat marijuana leaf from the Hesston logo" That gave them a 50% stake in Hay and Forage Industries, the factory in Hesston Kansas that made hay tools for both Hesston and CaseIH. When Fiat bought New Holland and eventually CaseIH, that led to an anti-trust situation with them controlling too much of the hay tool market. Fiat sold their half to Agco, making HFI Agco owned. That opened up room in a modern factory, allowing them to move combine production into that factory. That's where my Massey 9795 was built. Crazy how some of this comes full circle.

[@larryklostermann5779]

Very interesting video. Thanks

[@ThatOliverGuyChris]

@@larryklostermann5779 it's not my video, but I did learn a lot from it.

[@johnbender1596]

Yes when Fiat wanted to purchase Ford New Holland they were required to divest themselves from Hesston hay tools. As you said the hay tool business was sold to AGCO, and an interesting detail was that Ford Motor Credit financed the deal for AGCO allowing the transaction to take place.

[@FleetlineSteve]

For a moron you're a pretty good teacher.😂😂

[@rosstheoliverman]

It is interesting to see how everything changed hands there for a while. I have one of those posters that shows which companies were bought by who, and eventually they all flow into AGCO, John Deere or Case international. if you made another one of those today, it would be even more narrow. Thanks all for the comments! I think I was using more than my allotted amount of brain power on this one 🤣

[@DonWelter]

Ross, you deserve an honorary PhD in Oliver/Fiat history!!! Always interesting in various brands to hear how things came about.

[@rosstheoliverman]

🤣 thanks Don!

[@johnluimes8359]

Dad had a 1370 White and it was a good tractor. You can still find these around today. I now have a Fiat built New Holland 7635 and is has been a great tractor.

[@rosstheoliverman]

The 13 size tractors were great!!

[@jonathanswanmarketing9314]

Hey Ross, Jonathan here from Nova Scotia, Canada. I find myself watching way too much of your videos when I probably should be doing something else. I guess that means you're doing something right. Informative and entertaining. My initial reason is because we (we meaning my 73 year old dad) have a Cockshutt 1355 (prob 1970 as per this video)...and I'm trying to learn stuff about it so we can do some long-overdue service and give it some new life. You videos are truly a real help, so Thank You! I hope your KZbin channel treats you well :)

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thank you so much!! I hope you find something useful from my content 😂

[@corydriver7634]

Love hearing about the history of these machines, you’ve obviously done your homework, impressive to say the least. Also a big thanks to the other KZbinrs and Oliver experts commenting on here. This is what it’s all about.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks Cory, I’m no expert, but I try.

[@Andrew-l7q]

The early Menards "Agri-Power" tractors where rebadged Fiat tractors. Allis Chalmers models 5040,5045 and 5050 where also Fiat based tractors. Good video, very informative. Thanks a bunch

[@rosstheoliverman]

That’s interesting! I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Menards Fiat. I’m gonna have to look those up.

[@55tmilam]

I own a 1255 and these are some of the best tractors ever built!!!!

[@allannantes8583]

This video Ross is very well done, you nailed it. Hats off to Fiat for getting it all perfected at the end of the day. My dad was also guilty of leaving that pro clutch handle up all day. Eventually it failed on him and he learned from the Cockshutt dealership as to why it happened. It is a 1978 model and is still used on the farm by my brother. The engine has been rebuilt but it now has over 23000 hours on the tractor. They are a pleaser to operate. What a success story for Fiat. German engineers from northern Italy. They are the Ferrari version of tractors which was exported all over the world under many different brand names (even as Allis C.) You did a great job at explaining all this Ross.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thank you Allan!

[@keithwuchter624]

Great video Ross. The history you gave was fantastic. Thank you for sharing the info.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks Keith!

[@BillTheTractorMan]

European tractors were pretty nice in the day. I would love to see your 1365 do some tillage and maybe pull the picker. I love playing with my Fordson Major Diesel when the chance is right for it to work. Which is actually a lot, its the only tractor I have with a 3pt hitch. Thanks for sharing!

[@rosstheoliverman]

I almost hooked Freddie to the picker, but I really wanted to get done. Maybe next year I’ll be more prepared and have a spectacular harvest crew ready 🤣

[@BillTheTractorMan]

@rosstheoliverman that would be fun to watch for sure, I know how much work it is, though. Take it easy now for the holidays!

[@philipingram1667]

Kubota M series from the 80s were Fiat design and copies until the 8200/9000 came out in the mid 90. Many Hesston (Fiat) tractors were sold in California in vegetables in the late 80s - I am sure you understood Hesston (Prime line) was owned by Fiat until they had to sell it off when Case IH was bought by New Holland - Justice Dept would not let them retain ownership of two hay and forage companies. Good video - I know some history on tractors but your video was very well done and informative.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thank you very much!!

[@tomharrington1393]

Well done Ross👍👍

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks Tom !

[@55tmilam]

I own a 69 1250-A with the 3 cylinder fiat diesel and these are some of the best tractors ever built!!!! Properly maintained they will last multiple generations.

[@brianchilders6535]

Great Video Ross, if you have a 3-bottom plow you should have a contest between your 1365 and your 2020 Deere.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Might have to try that! Thanks Brian!

[@davidroberts3489]

Great job Ross

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks David!

[@molinedan]

The Cockshutt 1350 is the same as MM Jet Star3 super. You were spot on! Excellent video Ross!

[@rosstheoliverman]

Awesome! Thanks Dan!

[@frankwurth5375]

Nice history lesson. I remember when those Heston and Long tractors were being offered in the area. The Long tractors were pretty much junk from the factory. Once they were rebuilt after a few hours and the screw ups from the factory was corrected, they held up well enough and were cheap to run. The Hesston line did impress me but they never caught on here. Never heard much about them since. I understood that they were Fiat built. Would make a neat addition to the oddity collection here. We had good luck with the line of Hesston balers etc. I think that the line of Fiat small tractors were likely popular as they were the last affordable new tractor that small family farmers could buy. They basically were the replacement for the little Fords and small rowcrops from the big 3. The one small tractor line that I thought would still be popular were the IHC 54 series. There quite a few around when new, but now I haven't seen one anywhere, in any size. I thought they were in house built but not sure.

[@rosstheoliverman]

I only know of one Hesston Tractor around here. But I’d say they were pretty reliable. The color had a lot to be desired though. 😂

[@jeffhohler7573]

Nice job Ross

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks Jeff !

[@peterhoughton1589]

Very interesting video Ross. We had a 1975 Fiat 640 tractor, it did a lot of work for us, the only issue we ever had was the synchro ring on 3rd gear wore out but my dad and I replaced it. It was a pretty easy tractor to work on. We traded the 640 in for a new Ford 4610 tractor in 1987, which I still have. Best Wishes from England. Peter 🇬🇧🚜

[@michaelsheeder148]

Ross, very interesting video on the Fiat line of tractors in progression of the tractor lineup. You definitely done a lot of research to get all that information that sounds like. Thanks Michael

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thank you Michael!

[@ronwood7040]

Thanks for the info. I have a 75 1365 I got from my fathers estate. He bought it new. I just started to restore it to new condition. My father was a mechanical genius.( I say that because he could fix anything and knew how to keep it nice.) He knew all about the clutch like you were saying. Thanks for all information about these tractors. Ron

[@rosstheoliverman]

Awesome! Thanks for watching!!

[@55tmilam]

That’s awesome!!!! I’m looking for a 1365!

[@DaleHegland]

Ross your knowledge knows no bounds...awesome video!👍😎

[@rosstheoliverman]

🤣 I don’t know about that! Thank you Dale!!!

[@briana1910]

That's kinda neat I get to see my dad's 1465 on your channel. He bought it new and it's still on the farm. Just over 7000 hours on it now and in my opinion a very handy tractor.

[@rosstheoliverman]

That’s awesome! If they’re maintained they last a long time.

[@Damien80279]

There is a 700 at a dealership in Swanton VT. Has a cab on it. Looks to be in decent shape.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Cool! I’ve never seen any of them around here.

[@jamieebersole6755]

I didn't realize there were so many Fiat Oliver models either. I don't remember ever seeing many in our area although i did just see a 1355 with a nearly perfect grill the other day.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Awesome!! Those grills are getting hard to find

[@jasonandholliehuffman8291]

Excellent history lesson.👍👍👍👍👍

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks Jason!

[@HighWaterFarm]

At least two of those 700s were sold in NE Ohio in the last few years. Chalkers Auction gets a lot of equipment in from Canada. Great video. My father in law has a 1365 and 2-60 and thinks highly of them.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Cool! I’ll have to keep my eye out for one! Thanks!

[@brianhartley4534]

Interesting video

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks Brian!

[@joutdoorsmen23]

Thanks Ross, great history info, here in my area we have a lot of Fiat line in Oliver, White, Heston, and Long witch I have own, most all are front wheel assets or DT, the utility size is a lot better because our ground is very hilly here in West Virginia, all of these Fiat’s brand tractors are very cheap compared to the name brand ones so for the small farmers that was new and getting started out is really a good idea, I grew up with JD, and Fergusons, but as much as I really like them, they really didn’t offer the front wheel assets, so if you wanted one you had to buy the off brand ones, and if you wasn’t hard headed the off brand ones was as good as the brand name ones, this is just my opinion

[@rosstheoliverman]

Awesome! Thanks for watching!

[@HughJoanneCrawford]

What an awesome video Ross. You nailed the history of the Fiat tractors ight on. We have owned 1 or2 ofthese little guys for a long time and have had great luck with them. As difficult to sa y but I feel they may have been more reliable than some of the white tractors .that followed We nearly bought a 700 4wd at one point but thought it wasntt quite big enough so ended up with a 2 85. There were however a lo of those700s sold here in Ontario and had a good reputation Thanks again Ross . Hugh

[@rosstheoliverman]

Cool! I’d love to own a 700 someday.

[@duanecreativemachine]

As it has seemed to rain for the last two weeks non stop here I can understand the want for a diff lock. My Massey 35 doesn’t have one and feeding bales in the water a diff lock would be nice.

[@rosstheoliverman]

It definitely has its moments when it’s a life saver!

[@jimtrewartha2594]

Again, LOTS of info, and history! IDK if I can remember all of it, I probably need to take some Prevagen to help! 😂. Allis had some Fiat utility tractors, I think the 5050 was one. Are they the same as any of the Oliver's? Any common parts or maybe sheet metal between them? I think the 5040 was made in Romania or some place?? Fiat and Allis had a big connection between them on industrial equipment. Keep the videos coming Ross, they are all interesting.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Watch those side effects!!🤣🤣🤣 Yes, The Allis built ones were like the long’s, built in Romania.

[@gleanerk]

Thanks for the history!

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks for watching!

[@martymurphy7477]

Gerat info video

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks Marty!

[@dylanhockaday9878]

I’ve seen a couple of them 700 down here in Nc. But we pulled a 7 shank chisel plow with the 1450 Oliver

[@rosstheoliverman]

Cool!!

[@allannantes8583]

White 2-60 is what my dad had and that was an excellent tractor. Fiat definitely got it right at the end of the day. I think the 1470 was the ultimate one

[@rosstheoliverman]

They really were great. Thanks Allan!

[@KennethMyers-d1k]

Hi I have two running 411R my father bought one new in 1961 and it’s still a strong little tractor. I am currently making some small improvements on it.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Awesome!!! I think they’re neat little tractors

[@davekelley8520]

Those tractors with 4 wheel drive were like a tank I know of 4 of them with loaders working feedlots every day

[@rosstheoliverman]

Awesome!

[@workingwithadam]

Great video!

[@rosstheoliverman]

Glad you enjoyed it!!

[@MikeJensen-wo7oh]

"So ugly it's cute." Now if I could just convince the girls that about me!!

[@rosstheoliverman]

🤣🤣🤣

[@wesboettcher6105]

I know a guy with a 1465 front wheel assist. I thought it was the goofiest thing when he brought it to a plow day with a 3 bottom semi mounted auto reset oliver plow. But I tell you what that thing was full of horsey torques.

[@rosstheoliverman]

They are a gutsy little machine!!

[@keemosabi05]

You never mentioned the G450 minneapolis moline. Its the same tractor, i have one!

[@rosstheoliverman]

Yes, I think I said for simplicity sake in the video I was going to stick to the green ones but you’re right.

[@brianhayes7618]

I had a David Brown 990 and 1200 which ended up being great tractors.

[@rosstheoliverman]

When they partnered up with case they really broaden their line.

[@paulcasefarms9933]

My dad has a fiat but it is allis chalmers 5050 model and is the 3 cylinder 50 hp. Almost identical to some of the features of some of your fiat tractors.

[@rosstheoliverman]

It’s an exact copy except for built in Romania! Thanks for watching!!

[@glennschlorf1285]

Dont forget.... fiar also built em under the minne moline ans cockshutt colors as well as White

[@rosstheoliverman]

Yes, I may have to do a second part of the video just on the other colors.

[@neilkratzer3182]

Remember the white dealer with 2 40 and 2 50.

[@rosstheoliverman]

There were a few of those around for sure!!

[@paulprillwitz9901]

👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks Paul!

[@petepeeff5807]

Anothe fun fact is in the late 70's just before Fiats partnership with Hesston they built Tractors for AC 5000 series. The little Fiat 540 Three cylinder became the AC 5050. Then in the AC 6000 series Fiat built the rear ends. An AC collector could elaborate more. Again like some Oliver guys some AC guys dont consider them legitimate AC tractors.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Those Allis Chalmers ones were knock offs built in Romania. Thanks Pete!

[@petepeeff5807]

@@rosstheoliverman I went back and checked . The small ones 5000-5030 were made buy Hinimoto of Japan. Father in law has a 5020. The 5040 was the utb/ universal clone. There were a bunch of those around me in that 90's they must have had a buy 1get 1 half off. Then 5045 , 5050 were genuine. Had to check tractor data to refresh memory. Fun fact on the 6000 series the one with the AC engine and Fiat rear end. AC made a service kit to combat improper use of the PTO. They had a kinda reverse throw out bearing you could mount to the front of the crank at the balancer and bolt to the frame to absorb the thrust load from the PTO. Funny how people couldn't understand PTO operation no matter the brand. Even Kubota 20 yrs. Later had a similar problem until they went to wet clutch packs.

[@JASONBUSH-ir2hj]

Ya got the fiat looking fairly good and I'm really starting to like the Oliver Fiats

[@rosstheoliverman]

They definitely grow on a guy 😂

[@jvin248]

I suspect White dropped the Fiat factory for the Japanese factory purely for cost reasons. The 1970s were furious inflationary times just like we are experiencing today. Farmers have a tractor budget set by grain prices (and 'mysteriously' grain stayed low) so if a tractor company was going to continue they needed cheaper stuff.

[@rosstheoliverman]

I have a feeling that’s the reason as well. If you wanted cheaper cost you went to China or Japan.

[@apollorobb]

The Great Indiana Fiat Fiasco of 2023 .SEE

[@rosstheoliverman]

🤣 I definitely did not expect to be this involved in them when I started working on the first one in January!

[@johnbender1596]

Ross, well done! I found the Cockshutt connection to be interesting, and it ties the relationship together. I would like to add a just a few extras if I may. 1- With the introduction of the Iveco 8000 series engine that you see in the 1255, 1355, the engines were very good, and would last for many hours when maintained properly. That engine design was produced for many years and was updated as emission requirements came into play. 2-There are many folks who see the A/C, and Long Fiat designed tractors as all being the same, because they look the same. The Oliver tractors were built in a Fiat plant in Italy. I believe the AC 5040 / 5050 were built in Romania. The AC units and the Long units were built in other countries of the world by companies like UTB who were licensed by Fiat to build a similar unit. If you want to see the difference in the quality of these tractors compare the finish of the castings on the Long and an Oliver. You will notice a much better casting finish on the Fiat built Oliver. Some later AC tractor models and powertrains were manufactured in Italy. And of course, there was the Fiat Allis relationship between Allis and Fiat. 3- AC later purchased what was called a Tbone from Fiat. This was the part of the tractor from the clutch housing back including the transmission and rear end. The Fiat built Tbone was married to an AC engine. These units experienced the same PTO stress on the thrust of the crankshaft main bearings. AC came up with a kit that amounted to adding an external thrust bearing to the front of the crankshaft to resolve the concern. 4- White purchased approximately 21,000 units from Fiat during their relationship. AC also purchased approximately 12,000 units from Fiat.

[@rosstheoliverman]

That’s awesome! Thanks John! Yes those UTB built ones are definitely lower quality. And I know that on the Allis 6080, they use that kit you’re talking about that holds the crank shaft back from the front so it doesn’t experience this issue. I’m always glad to hear more of your stories. No matter how much I read it can’t compare to the fact that you were there and lived it!!

[@Machi74005]

Somehow David Brown became affiliated with Case.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Later on, after they had already terminated the deal with Oliver.

[@Thecasey34]

I thought David brown tractors were a product of international?

[@rosstheoliverman]

Nope. Later on they became hooked up with IH.

[@kb80909kbbbbb]

J.I. Case company bought David Brown company in 1974 . When change color from yellow to white hood tractors, during the 70,s series tractors

[@danjosephson6910]

​@kb80909kbbbbb The Case/David Brown connection began earlier than that ( 72 or 73?) But you are correct that 1974 was the year that the merged the paint schemes to unify the look.

[@MaclearieFarms]

I guess you could put a 4Bt Cummins in a toast diesel 1250 if you get a stress plate in

[@rosstheoliverman]

I think it would be more trouble than it was worth

[@MaclearieFarms]

@@rosstheoliverman yo

[@johnyreb5464]

It is sad that Oliver and Moline could not continue on as their own brand they where both great tractors and this is coming from a red power guy

[@rosstheoliverman]

Yeah. It was mainly bad business deals that caused the problem. The quality of the stuff was never the issue. Thanks!!!

[@dawn20]

David brown and oliver probably ended when case bought db

[@rosstheoliverman]

No, it ended before that. They had the opportunity to sell the tractors under their own name in North America and that’s why they discontinued the Oliver deal.

[@brianhayes7618]

That tractor looks like a Ford Major

[@rosstheoliverman]

The 411 R does kind of look like that

[@bigun447]

My darling bride has a Fiat 500 Sport which is the performance version. She drives like a crazy woman, who is almost 80, because that Fiat corners like it is on rails. I just hope that she never does any "agricultural work" (leaving the road and plowing a ditch) with it. Nice history lesson.

[@rosstheoliverman]

🤣🤣🤣 Thanks Gary !

[@darweb3417]

Interesting ! and confusing history of fiat.

[@rosstheoliverman]

Thanks for watching!

[@brianhayes7618]

I hope Fiat's tractor quality was better than their automotive quality which was terrible.

[@rosstheoliverman]

I think it was by the end 🤣