The Others: 7 Deadly Sins Review - with Tom Vasel

Tom Vasel takes a look at The Others from Cool Mini Or Not!
00:00 - Introduction
01:35 - Game overview
12:55 - Final thoughts
BGG link here: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1...
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[@EyalItsik]

The things that pisses me off the most about the game is the fact it's called "7 Sins" and there are only 2 in the base set :C

[@philz6164]

Completely agree. I feel just the name suggests I need to have them all and I'm not someone that needs everything for a game

[@TheMrE]

To be fair it is called "The Others", 7 Sins is the subtitle.

[@cerealkiller195]

while i can see that, each sin comes with a mini deck, 6 abominations , 3 dice, a controller and avatar.. Which would make the box set carry an extra 35 figures and 100+ cards. Which would raise the base value of the game making it more of an investment (as the retail price would be higher). Compared to the current base game which if you decide you like the game you can play it out a number of times before you decide if you want to expand on it.

[@aranha1138]

To be fair, Seven Sins is not even the subtitle of the box anymore.

[@bernardorippe7024]

The 7 Expansions

[@ArnoVdVelde]

I can't help but feel the game could be darker and more twisted to fit the artwork.

[@Syranur]

the theme is gorgeous!! I don't even understand why the theme is questionned, it's look like a Lovecraft theme, but with Chistian mythos ;)

[@xshadowscreamx]

Christian channel.

[@JDKT002]

Coming from someone who absolutely loves this game all around (theme and mechanics); very fair review Tom. Being able to separate the game itself from the theme and talk about how much you liked it despite not being a huge fan of the theme is commendable, as is acknowledging that it's just your personal preference and that many people will love the theme. I'm also in agreement that the game looks a lot darker than it actually is. The "action" part of the action horror tagline is definitely the dominant half. So much so that it feels like this game could have used almost any action oriented theme and still worked. Heck word is Lang chose this theme because he saw Adrian Smiths (the artist for the game) work and loved it.

[@lawrencestanley8989]

I am so OCD that my chest hurts every time they dump the game components on the table...

[@adastra3147]

Please seek medical advice

[@cygnusx-1256]

haha right? it hurts me inside when I watch the blatant abuse of game components

[@way9689]

Thanks for the review! I do appreciate that you made it clear that the theme didn't appeal to you and your opinion minus the theme. Thought this review was handled far better than the chaos in the old world review.

[@ianoble]

Haha, I loved that you called that people would get on you because you didn't like the theme. Great foresight! Looking forward to Zee's review.

[@robertmitchell3030]

FANTASTIC game! I've played it four times now and each game has been a blast...and come down to the wire between the Sins player and the FAITH team. The models are perfect for the theme and connote the encroaching corruption of the Apocalypse (on the good guys and bad guys)...it's got a feel very similar to Hell Boy! Another home run from Eric Lang and CMON!

[@VaultBoy13]

I was thinking about how interested I would be if it was the Hellboy IP (well, more BPRD as a whole). It'd bring with it some amazing monsters designs too.

[@robertmitchell3030]

+VaultBoy True. Having the official Hell Boy IP would likely have given it a wider appeal...for people familiar with that setting/background. It's current band of "heroes" certainly do have a strong BPRD vibe.

[@jordanjohnson6650]

Every time I watch one of your reviews and I see you dump the contents of the game out I die a little inside...

[@mydemon]

My OCD does this to me too..

[@Kustdala]

So I guess I don't have to wait for a review from Zee on this one? Or are there still hope??

[@KristoVaher]

Well, as I keep hearing about the game, it reminds me of Level 7 Omega Protocol - especially with the corruption thing that is like adrenaline in L7. And L7 simply seems to have much better mechanisms and by far more interesting 'overlord' mechanisms. Any reason to look at this one, if I already love L7 Omega Protocol?

[@DwarfyDoodad]

It is nothing like L7 Omega Protocol, I have both, and TBH? I like Omega Protocol a lot more. I might be biased because I was a backer, and there were communication and delay issues, but I honestly think it is going to sit on my self after a game. It just honestly wasn't quite what I was expecting. L7 has more in common with Descent or Imperial Assault.. I played Level 7 and enjoyed it immensely. This one, the rules weren't clearly laid out where some things were concerned, it has a very hard player cap, and it just didn't sit well with me. The theme is what attracted me to the game, but the game play itself was lacking something, especially when compared to games like Level 7 or Imperial Assault, and felt kind of Samey, when you look at the rules and game play compared to Zombicide or even Arcadia Quest.

[@mariahlee7653]

Can you please do a top ten about the hats you wear?

[@Plissken501]

Hey I've been trying to find a game that's similar to this but you play AS the 7 deadly sins. I cant remember the name and its driving me nuts! The board was huge and the miniatures were well detailed and gory looking. Can anyone help me out? Much apprectiated.

[@gurtana]

Disappointed this wasn't a Miami Dice review to hear Zee and Sam's thoughts too considering it's quite a blockbuster title, but do appreciate to hear what Tom thinks. Also, I reckon that Tom was in a hard spot with this review, for a couple of reasons like due to being burned on the whole Bloodborne/Eric Lang "fanboy" accusations (which was bogus) so Tom had to come down more on the side of caution - easier to do due to the grotesque and "evil" theming of the game that we know isn't really Tom's thing. Same sort of issue as with Chaos In The Old World (from the same designer).

[@GKnight786]

Agreed, and all the more reason to do a Miami Dice. In fact, I would like to see all Seal of Approval and Excellence games getting at least a 2nd Dice Tower opinion. It would be better than the thumbs down to half to 2-thumbs up scales.

[@LookAtTheBacon]

Agreed. Looking forward to hearing Zees thoughts also :)

[@TheMrE]

+theonlySeraph Check the "Blender of the Month" that just posted. He gives some of his opinions there.

[@jartree]

Accusing him of not being that excited by the game because you think he wants to quell the Lang fanboy perception is just as ridiculous as the Lang fanboy perception.

[@gurtana]

jartree No, it's really not. And it's also nothing as serious as an "accusation" on my part - it's more of a hunch. I'm sure a lot of that whole saga plays in the back of the mind because really, apart from the theme holding it back, Tom seemed to really like this game. Of course, the theme is the main reason it's not a glowing endorsement, but when Tom had to address the "fanboy" comments in his Breakfast show it demonstrates that he was bothered (if only slightly) by the perception that he might be biased towards Eric Lang games.

[@ETH5626]

To be honest, that big model with all the tentacles looks like it came from Warhammer 40k's realm of Nurgle.

[@robertmills7262]

played this and whilst i like the theme, art, components and minis i felt it was a game i didnt mind playing but have no "need" to add it to my collection

[@missmuscle]

I love the theme of the game but I get that it's not for everyone. Even hearing that it's very good from someone that doesn't like the theme that much makes me excited for getting my copy :D

[@jasonserrato1951]

still a great game and perennial favorite.

[@danielyeatts491]

Personally I very much like that the game comes with two Sin sets. It could have only come with one and still would have had plenty in the core box to play over and over. Plus, Pride and Sloth were likely chosen because they were playtested and found to be the most moderately successful of the sets because of their look and play. The other 5 are optional and a matter of choice: you don't need them all to play but if a certain set appeals to you then you may use it. They all look like the Sins manifested into demonic form. Yes, many sport tentacles in a Cthulhu manner, but not all of them. The demons themselves might not have been directly designed by Lang but rather by hired artists told by CMON to don a certain style throughout. Lang is the game designer but likely does not have 100% autonomy over the end result.

[@Straddllw]

You don't fight one monster at a time, when you fight a monster, the sins player rolls dice equals to all the monsters in that district.

[@gurtana]

honestly thought I had a fly on monitor because of your picture, good job!

[@thedicetower]

Right right I mispoke, sorry!

[@theprincemachiavell1]

The game actually plays really well; the 4v1 mechanic makes it feel like a Fury of Dracula variant. I think the theme fails in the horror department (too cartoony) but otherwise my only complaint is that the Sins player is purely a reactive element. You cannot do anything proactively, only respond to the heroes.

[@michaelwright9580]

I was already expecting this review from Tom. It's pretty mechanical how he feels about games at this point. I'm currently awaiting my kick-starter copy to review it myself. I expect I'll like it on the miniatures and art alone, I am hopeful the game-play is also enjoyable.

[@MarioMartinez-ek5ev]

Did you review it?

[@sebastiang.5032]

The Chaos in the Old World effect strikes again. Too dark for the DT.

[@TheMrE]

I'm not sure that's what he said.. but ok.

[@wutwut9022]

he literally says the game is dark like 5 times in a row. 16:43

[@TheMrE]

+wut wut Yes, he DID say that, but this a nuanced review. If you take the review as a whole in its "entirety" its very hard to say that he didn't like the game because of it, in fact he said HE DID like it. He definitely never said that he disliked it "because it is too dark".

[@regentcid4348]

I heard Eric Lang mentioned, and I braced for the "too dark" review. These guys didn't like CitOW at all, but I absolutely love it. Heavy themes help with immersion.

[@petejones284]

Looks like were going to have to wait until next year in Europe to get our KS games as they are on board a ship owned by Hanjin which has gone bankrupt and no one can get their cargo from the company!

[@davedogge2280]

It was either this or Massive Darkness and I chose Massive Darkness because I'm a Zombicide / dungeon crawler fan. Regardless Eric Land is becoming the Steven Spielberg or board games or is he the M Night Shamayalan of board games instead .???!?

[@ArnoVdVelde]

Eric already has more then 2 good boardgame behind him so he already beats out M Night.

[@LookAtTheBacon]

Plus there is no twist. Erics games are great from start to finish.. ;)

[@davedogge2280]

ok I admit ... it was a terrible metaphor.

[@DwarfyDoodad]

There is no twist to Eric's games, they are just the same with minor variations for the most part.

[@matthewmanghi5765]

Love the hat!

[@homelessjoe]

I don't like that you have to do all damage in one turn to the bad guys. It doesnt make sense to me.

[@EyalItsik]

Yup. The battle system in general seems way too simple.

[@TheMrE]

I'm sure it's part of the balance of the game. It also makes the game less about "fighting" while at the same time turning battles into a more strategic affair.

[@homelessjoe]

I'm sure you are right. I just don't like it. It reminds me too much of zombiecide. The mechanic drains a huge aspect of teamwork out of a game in my opinion.

[@steveg7000]

@Joseph I agree. In zombicide, most enemies have only one wound, so it doesn't matter. But the more wounds an enemy has, the sillier it feels that damage is all-or-nothing. It's not thematic. Imagine playing an RPG (tabletop or digital) where a boss where an attack either killed it outright or did nothing. It doesn't really feel like a combat system.

[@Th0rvidTheViking]

think of it like having to sever their link to "hell" or something. If you don't manage to do it, then the connection remains and they just heal themselves. Do enough damage though and you sever that link which instantly kills them

[@Andromedax01]

I dunno Tom, I somehow feel the theme is too dumb to be really dark. I mean, look at the heroes in their fancy schmancy "trying so hard to be cool" clothing. The "ideas" are dark, but it lacks grit to really be dark.

[@gamera2351]

FINALLY!!!!

[@errolwilde1656]

is this video sped up?

[@AlexCachineroG]

including only 2 of 7 sins in a box about the 7 sins is such blatant way of inflating price and insulting. next: Knights of the Round Table with only 3 knights!

[@judgewilson2410]

parqbench they changed it to “the others” before it even came out

[@ccggenius]

This was the first CMoN campaign I'd skipped in years, and it was also for aesthetics. I've got no problem with eldritch horrors, but that was literally the ONLY theme that was going on for the villains. You've got seven different sins, but the minions all end up being "X-person with tentacles". Look at Warhammer 40k: four different demon factions, and they all look super distinct from each-other. There's plenty of variety in the heroes, which just further draws attention to how samey the bad guys look. One of the Kickstarter heroes is a friggen Filipino achondroplastic dwarf with a riot grrl hair style, cybernetic prosthesis, and a penchant for dual-wielding grenade launchers for craps sake.

[@MrErgtide]

Many of the monsters are allusions to different horror movies, the twins refer to The Shining.

[@googletubesucks]

what is the die saying in the animation at the beginning? before he falls over

[@primusinterpares5767]

nothing.

[@1981dardar]

Sin song san

[@JimmySquiky]

I guess at this point Zee won't review the game :c I'd like to hear what he would say with the target audience.

[@andrewcheng2113]

All hail Adrain Smith and Karl Kopinski!

[@dannydoesright]

Not really loving the art design on this one. The characters look kind of goofy to me for the theme of the game.

[@TheMrE]

I think it stroke a difficult balance between gory and comic book style horror. Too dark and the game would be a niche game.

[@VaultBoy13]

Agree. The dark/horror aspect of the theme isn't interesting. Most of the time it's hard to draw any correlation to the sin. The graphic design made it an easy pass for me when it was on Kickstarter. The theme not coming through in the gameplay makes me feel even better about skipping this one.

[@Alloniya]

He is so young here

[@nizmotube]

He could have just called out that it's not a Christian friendly game as that's ultimately why the theme didn't sit well with him. I personally love the theme and the miniatures are amazing.

[@nizmotube]

That being said though, I appreciate him still reviewing the game despite his objections.

[@thedicetower]

I thought I was clear that my main objection was that the minis were disgusting.

[@nizmotube]

+The Dice Tower you did, I was just stating the theme itself is very Anti Christian and if you are Christian you're not going to like the game. Appreciate you're review though, have been waiting for it.

[@gheilers]

Opinions vary. I find the theme - being fantasy-based - to be the epitome of stupid, lame, and boring. The plastic miniatures are also terrible (but, I think that ALL plastic miniatures are cheesy and terrible). This game is like a bad, 1970's R-rated horror-based "shock film."

[@Kayne20]

I'm a christian and I don't see how the game is anti-christian. The theme isn't that much different from the Cthulhu-franchise, with all the tentacles and stuff. That was Tom's main objection, from what he said. He didn't like the look of the monsters (too many tentacles ;)). But he said himself that the theme didn't come across as strongly as you might think and that he likes playing the game.

[@SuperDoggy99]

The gymnastics Tom goes through to like-dislike-like-dislike this game--and all of the rambling about the theme not being there, but somehow being able to not think it was too dark after all, etc., blah, blah, blah ... it's all just "believer-bias" getting in the way of what would otherwise have been a solid review. Kind of funny, though, watching this squirming, discursive, "it's just gross! ... but, I really didn't mind it ... but, it's just dark ... but I liked it, it's not too dark" .... /amused.

[@goyasolidar]

I think I would have preferred this to have a Warhammer 40K theme. Like a 1-versus-many version of Assassinorum: Execution Force.

[@mikaelbrresen983]

I think i would have liked it more if it was chtulu...

[@LookAtTheBacon]

I honestly thank the gods that it's NOT Cthulhu. Way too overdone.. Also the seven deadly sins are an amazing, heavily underused theme.

[@windbane69]

Yep, not seeing how this theme is darker than Cthulhu.

[@VaultBoy13]

+Allen Brown Not seeing how this theme isn't simply an Old Ones theme pasted on the seven sins.

[@windbane69]

Because its based on the art for the 7 deadly sins and so are the abilities of the sins

[@VaultBoy13]

All I was saying is that it can't be darker than Cthulhu because it's so based on art for HP Lovecraft's Old Ones (including Cthulhu) that it might as well be Cthulhu. It's far removed from art for the 7 deadly sins. From a marketing perspective, it was likely I smart move. I imagine they got more buy-in for a re-themed Cthulhu than they'd have ever got for going with something that falls more in line with Catholic demons,

[@gnomechompsky4996]

lol cool review!

[@JeffreyQProductions]

I just gotta say that the fact that only kickstarter backers will get all 7 sins in a game called "7 Deadly Sins" is stupid. I get that you can buy them as addons and extra content, but it's stupid. You shouldn't have to.

[@judgewilson2410]

They changed it it’s just called “the others” now

[@giantlobsterboy644]

Tom Vasel is afraid of tentacles.

[@donadavs]

It'd be hard to justify owning this. Way too dark of a theme for me.

[@windbane69]

why?

[@donadavs]

Playing as sin, pentagram tokens, probably the same reasons as Tom; just like in Mr. Jack where one player has to play Jack the ripper, a serial murderer.

[@Stroggoii]

I think your point was, and people failed to understand, that the models are not aesthetic. It's not that they're Christian/Anti-Christian, dark or whatever. It's that they are gross for the sake of gross without design involved to make that grossness work. And yes, you can design the utterly horrid to be attractive and memorable, it's just that TO:7DS and KD:M (among others) need to take the horror aesthetics workshop from Silent Hill and stop just putting tentacles and genitals where they don't belong.

[@steveg7000]

See, this is one of those reviews that feels like a bunch of bullet-point impressions. Then again, I don't know, maybe the gameplay doesn't really warrant much more than that.

[@niarudle]

I really wish designers would stop using that dumb mechanic of rolling a crit and getting an extra die each time until you reach an infinite amount of hits. It's a possible kingmaker and makes each game come down to whoever gets the most crits is the winner!

[@dearmrdw]

yeah, the game looks so unpleasant (what was intended, I get it) that I had to skip on KS and even after hearing a lot of good things - I just don't want to have this box at my house.

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

I very much dislike when you guys dock a great game because you don't agree with the dark theme. You did the same thing with inferno....if it's a great game it's a great game, I'm guessing personal faith is the reason for your negative opinion on the theme...but as a professional reviewer you ought to be able to set that bias aside and look at it from a purely game perspective. IMO it is unprofessional to do anything but that.

[@dallbariscak7818]

@ Casey Pearson He didn’t dock it. Even approved it and said it was a solid game. Just not keeping in his collection. Did we watch the same review?!?!

[@jeffknox966]

I watch a lot of your reviews and it always makes me cringe when you dump the box contents out. LOL!

[@psbauman]

The theme has that lame, angsty, teenager edgelord stuff that I just can't really appreciate anymore. I'm glad that there's an audience for it, but... I completely agree with Tom. Its gross, and frankly, boring.

[@Straddllw]

Wow, elitist much? Everyone who likes what I don't like are angsty teenagers. Get over yourself.

[@wh3elson]

So creatures from hell are angsty teenager edge lord stuff? Lol yea you're right trading in the Mediterranean is much better!

[@nizmotube]

Can't see how this is in any way teenage angst'y, gross sure, but otherwise no...

[@JDKT002]

The theme is heavily drawn from the works of Clive Barker and H.P. Lovecraft. "angsty teenager" is certainly not the first thing I think of when I hear those two names.

[@psbauman]

It does to me. Sorry.