The Oxus Civilization: The Lost Civilization you've never heard of

[@someoneunknown3391]

I did not expect a wheel of time quote on your channel. Props bro.

[@TheFallofRome]

I’m beyond happy someone caught it! The Dragon rides again upon the Wheel of Time!

[@TheFallofRome]

@@hia5235 I do talk about that at the end of the video, If you haven’t made it that far yet

[@andrewjacks2716]

Can't even watch quality history vids without being reminded to give Wheel of Time a read

[@altareggo]

@@andrewjacks2716 lol just surrender. There is no escape: you WILL be assimilated.

[@silencemeviolateme6076]

@@TheFallofRome I will watch this over Christmas break. It may be the civilization I have been looking for. The video begins, and I don't know how it ends, but you say the culture left no legacy. I wonder. Around 1500bc the vedas appear in India and Zoroastrianism appears in Iran. Greek mythology has gods that are from an unknown northern east. I believe Dionysus is one. He isn't from India but did conquer India. PS- I couldn't help myself. I'm like a kid in a candy store. I watched it. I will have to watch it again. A lot of good info. The more I study history the more I am interested in central Asia. It seems to always be in the backdrop of ancient history.

[@JarodCain]

This is fascinating, and makes me wonder just how many other civilizations and tribes that once existed that we know nothing about because they had little to no surviving artifacts.

[@MugiwaraLion]

Probably thousands maybe hundreds of thousands

[@leviotten]

its likely we are 10-15,000 years off when it comes to how old human civilisation goes. I'd say a good round number is 21,000 BCE at least

[@MugiwaraLion]

@@leviotten I agree but who knows, civilization could go back even further than what you proposed. Most artifacts don't survive more than a couple thousand years right? So would we even have any evidence for a civilization that did exist back then?

[@leviotten]

@@MugiwaraLion yea. I would imagine if you took a contemporary building and left it for 5000 years nothing would be left

[@BlackMasterRoshi]

@@leviotten I find myself wondering if entire cities worth of concrete and steel was left to decay for thousands of years what would future archaeologists find? vast fields of iron oxide-rich dirt? Would they call us the rust civilization? Our glassware should survive so maybe they'll call us the glass civilization. or perhaps they'll simply refer to us as a "strange isotope anomaly in the sediment layer."

[@TheFallofRome]

Two things: I would like to thank my most recent patron, Dhruv Singhal, for supporting the channel. And, I think it’s important to note that the area designated in the video as the Oxus Civ is actually a bit smaller than depicted. It wouldn’t have shown up properly on screen otherwise

[@caniblmolstr4503]

It's only the Ferghana Valley right.. Ck3 player here 🤣. I taught my nephew his geography lessons using the game

[@BlackMasterRoshi]

@@caniblmolstr4503 do you also teach your son to molest cannibals? or...

[@Justin.Martyr]

*I Don't Care anything about PauL WheLan!!!!* *Vic is Out; WHY??? Cuz --->* *Joe Biden Bought Back (OUR) CriminaL Scuum Grinder!!!* *a Crack Head, who Plays a MorRon BaLL Game!!!!* *but =====>* *Joe Biden, Surrendered Putin's ARMS DeaLer to TeRRorists;* *so that we can Get Back Our CrackHead Druger Grinder!!!* *It wiLL Be 23-Months, but; I'LL be Voting Every RePubLiCan on* *My BaLLot, come Nov. 2024./ Dec.10, 2022. Eugene, Oregon!* *DonaLd Trump wouLd NOT have Done this DasTurdLy Thing!!!*

[@azarshadakumuktir4551]

@@caniblmolstr4503 Not just Ferghana, all of Baktria too and the Murghab delta (what was once called Margu or Margiana, around the city of Merv). It isn't that small but there are no BMAC sites in Khwarazm near the Aral Sea or too far in the steppes. But indeed the CK games are good with Geography (CK2 was quite bad with iranian geography once but the Jade dragon update made it way better, and CK3 was good from the start).

[@BladeMasterIcarus]

good video mate. It seems to me that the Oxus civilization lost to a combination of cultural conquest and environmental changes

[@ATtravel666]

There's an interesting documentary series by David Adams called Alexander's Lost World. He proposes that the tale of Jason and the Argonauts is actually a description of a journey not to Georgia but to a Bronze Age Oxus civilisation. Apollonius of Rhodes describes the Argo entering into a river and then that river widening out into a sea and the Argo sailing onto Colchis. Adams points to an old waterway link between the Sea of Azov and the Caspian Sea. If you look at Google Maps there is a string of waterways between Rostov on Don and the Caspian.

[@kushantaiidan]

I was thinking the exact same thing! Speculative but interesting!

[@ATtravel666]

@@kushantaiidan The way would be to test it. Do a textual study of the Argonaut myths. Also take core samples from the route of the waterways to ascertain the environment and conditions in the Bronze Age and to examine the academic literature of settlements in the Oxus civilisations "area". Possibly carry out targeted excavations as well. The last two parts could focus on trade goods from outside the region with an additional emphasis on any material from the west and Hellenic influences.

[@brianmccarthy5557]

Jason and the Argonauts is pretty obviously the semi-fictionalized record of trading journeys by Mycemaen Greeks theough the Dardanelles and the Hellespont onto the Black aka Euxone Sea. The Hellespont especially resembles a river flowing into a sea. Though there seems to have been some hiatus during the Bronze Age Collapse and the retreat of the Greeks to Thrace, by the 800's and 700's the Ionian Greeks, eaoecoally from Milesiis, were sailing into the Black Sea as far as Georgia and establish trading posts and colony cities. Even in the Sea of Azov. Certainly the simplest and best supported by evidence explanation.

[@ATtravel666]

@@brianmccarthy5557 But when you read Apollonius' account of the Argonauts sailing through this "river" to reach a wide open sea he has already described going through the Clashing Rocks at the Black Sea end of the Bosphorus. It is an interesting conundrum.

[@scottlatessaii9501]

Just came from that documentry

[@BorkDoggo]

Subscribed because of the good discussion of linguistic evidence. Some people completely ignore linguistics in archaeology, and others think linguistics means a lot more than it really does. This did a good job laying out multiple evidence sources rather than jumping to conclusions or factually stating things that are uncertain. One critique is that it could have shown more Oxus artifacts because they are pretty unique

[@TheFallofRome]

Thank you!

[@skarbuskreska]

That you for th ehint, just googled it and it's so beautiful and interesting. I'm always amazed beyond words at the handcraftship of the ancient worlds.

[@johnnybaldaro5715]

BorkDoggo Asserts Aercheo-Linguistic Relationships...Someone Else Has Suggested a Hindu-Australian Thing???

[@MrAmitkr007]

​@@TheFallofRomeEuropeans didn't migrate in India but Indians migrated to Europe through Oxus civilization. In spite of no proof, by default, Western historians assume that the transmission happened from North to South. It's another sign of racism

[@crystalhealing847]

​@@skarbuskreskathe ancient world was not of this world 😊

[@Sultan-mj7sr]

Love seeing the Oxus get more attention. I took a class on Central Asian history a few years back and it was like discovering millennia of history I had never even heard of before

[@209Richsta]

Yah I just barely heard of the Oxus Civilization. What's crazy is I remember learning during the Bronze Age it was either copper or tin they use to get from that area, I forgot which one lol. I can't believe I never thought of there being a Civilization or great society was thriving there.

[@elizabethford7263]

Central Asian history is a passion of mine but it's SO hard to find resources. Can you recommend anything?

[@AncientAmericas]

I knew almost nothing about this topic so watching this was nothing less than pure joy! Excellent job!

[@issakzwarton9067]

Common Ancient Americas W

[@king_halcyon]

Typical American moment

[@scintillam_dei]

@@king_halcyon The US is full of ignorant people, but this website is from the USA. You are using US stuff, so that's funny.

[@sergpie]

The fact you went out of your way to acquire a synthesis of information thus recovered on this civilization, and at a pretty penny, shows your dedication. It’s been a while since I’ve enjoyed a truly informative video. Thanks for your time and dedication!!

[@chubbymoth5810]

One thing that is clear is the cities had walls. And big ones too. Taking such effort needs a reason.

[@redtobertshateshandles]

The walls are straight, which suggests to me that they were on the banks of watercourses. At one time, that whole mountainous region could have been covered with huge winter snow falls. Reliable flooding, like on the Nile, could have made the area highly liveable. I'm an Aussie, I know how this country goes from floods to drought. From an oasis to a dry hell. Europe experienced that dry hot hell last summer. ☀️ 😮‍💨

[@king_halcyon]

War?

[@jameswells554]

You don't build walls like that because you live in a nice neighborhood.

[@paulheath885]

​@@redtobertshateshandles The general history and migrations through this area (remember to get to the Alaska going through this area is they way through) its said that this civilization is sort of similar to ones before near to the south but they were still sort of the same thing group or people from before some stayed but moved away or would go to the west back and forth or they fill in with the migrations or nomads that go around the whole area for the longest time. The trade is focused upon just goes to explaining that theres a lot of trade from the turkish language nomads and other traveling groups. It is true the harrappan went somewhere and they usually say into this direction but most dont suggest this its coincedental that the place inbetween where the migrations usually go throught eurasia. More or less part of the problem is Ancient Persia ended at the time of Muhummad and a lot of the history lost so the point is that is probably where they went did not come from Mohenjo Daro and the tribal trade tradtion of the people in that part of central asia and the rest of eurasia migrations inbetween led them to eventually lead again back to something like Tamberlaine and the history of what is there today the CIS have metropolitan cities most of the time people focus on Pakistani Indian relations around the Himalayas along with Nepal and its relations with China and the hisotory of the place is that Afghanistan since 1800 was close to the same place as Pakistan and then when they seperated from the British Empire it became Pakistan and people moved to Pakistan so a different group not like the tribal ones from before there the point is that its called the Hndustani Empire from there to Bali and the colonial empires have messed things up for people there and for everyopne else ie in the west is left with a pov that is biased in favor of mistaking what is ancient history medieval or modern. Why get into all that 1850 is when modern science starts and the way it works is if you can do it perfectly you are screwing up the whole thing you are doin so in other words leaving stuff out and to that the eastern world left their dark ages coincidently at the same time the western civilization went into the medieval times there.

[@Balrog-tf3bg]

Probably other people

[@trevcam6892]

This area has always fascinated me since I read James Michener's novel "Caravans" about Afghanistan following WW2. The Oxus area was covered including the annual meeting up of nomads in the area. Eventually I worked in Iran but only for a short time until the 1979 revolution. I would have loved to have visited the Oxus region but recent political obstacles as well as (now) old age have stood in the way. A great presentation and I learned a great deal from it. Thank you.

[@catherinegrimes2308]

Why not go to Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan? These are really fascinating countries and are definitely worth a visit.

[@concept5631]

Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan are different flavors of dictatorships. Also, as they said, age. ​@@catherinegrimes2308

[@sookendestroy1]

I have never heard of an ancient bactrian indo-European civilization. I'd love more videos on little discussed civilizations like this

[@pandakicker1]

You had never heard of Bactria? I had, but not the Oxus people. I know of Bactria from the tales of Alexander’s conquests.

[@tomatensoup190]

@@pandakicker1 but thats a long time before alexander

[@Lucas_Antar]

@@tomatensoup190 And Bactria existed after Alexandria. Oxus and Bactria we're just in the same area they aren't the same thing.

[@user-vy5uy9fo8p]

@@tomatensoup190 bactria margiana complex is a good read

[@azarshadakumuktir4551]

Its not certain they were Indo-European, Sarianidi said so, but modern specialist tend to disagree, they may have been a pre indo-european people closer to Elamites and Indus Valley people who's urban culture influenced the aryans living in the steppes nearby.

[@L.P.1987]

Amazing. Learning about this civilization is like taking a look in an eerie and desolated world perfect for some post-apocalyptic story.

[@Tonixxy]

They say 10 000 years or less are beeded for all presence of current civilization to completely dissapear.

[@marlonstonewell9210]

You said it!

[@austinjackson7103]

We are living in their post-apocalypse

[@redtobertshateshandles]

You know there's that there's so many powerful nukes that there won't be any post apocalypse?? The fallout will just spread throughout the entire planet.

[@Michel411]

This video is the first time I’ve come across your channel. You explain everything clearly and with great detail, and the visuals and maps are very well done. Thank you for helping to bring a relatively obscure chapter and region in history into light, you’ve absolutely gained my sub

[@TheFallofRome]

Welcome aboard!

[@griffin-leonard]

What I love so much about this video is how you embrace uncertainty. You don't preach a particular way to view history and I love how you give an idea of how archeologists' views have changed over time instead of simply presenting the most current or popular opinion. You truly present history in a scientific way, and for that reason I've subscribed and will definitely be watching more! You clearly put a lot of work into researching this, and the visuals and maps complement what you are saying perfectly. Content like this is why I love the internet so much. Thank you!

[@majorianus8055]

Wow, never heard of them before, but their material culture is really impressive. It is as if they were a powerhouse back in the day. They definitely need to be put into one of the centers of civilization.

[@Ishkur23]

Interesting stuff, Mike. Halfway through I began to wonder if the Oxus were the Aryans and by the end you kind of already answered my question -- in that we don't know for certain, but it does fit into a lot of what we understand about the Indo-Aryan migration. You should do a collab with History With Cy about this. He is my go-to source for all things Bronze Age and older.

[@stonehartfloydfan]

Thanks for posting my thoughts as well, it seems to fit. I remember while I was at university (many years ago now), the name of this civilisation coming up but nothing beyond a name.

[@kurade1096]

bactria ≠ hyperborea get your facts right

[@1traphistory]

That was the first thing that came to my mind also

[@azarshadakumuktir4551]

@@kurade1096 Hyperborea is not a historical culture, and aryans aren't tied to Hyperborea. Hyperborea is a mythical country in greek classical geography close to the North Pole. Aryans lived in Iran, India and the steppes...

[@kurade1096]

@@azarshadakumuktir4551 that's simply not true :)

[@Deridus]

That sea, though... breaks my heart to see it so reduced. Remember the Aral!

[@fretnesbutke3233]

I'm so glad I'm not the only Archaeology/History geek. So many smart, knowledgeable people in this comment section. You renew my faith in the intellectual capacity of humanity. Sincere thanks.

[@king_halcyon]

Why did you think that? 8 billiom people on earth... You can find every type of personality here.

[@eardwulf785]

I'm delighted to have happened upon this video and channel. It's refreshing to listen to a honest narrative with the latest available data about a civilisation that I previously knew nothing about. Interesting that post Soviet cooperation between Russian and Western archeologists was mentioned. In the 80's I was given a Osprey Men at Arms book about the Scythians and the authors wrote of the limitations imposed on Western archaeologists because of the Cold War. Many artefacts and grave goods were sketched rather than photographs.

[@scintillam_dei]

Scythians were in Ukraine. Could some Scythians be Slavs?

[@theknave4415]

I truly appreciate the manner in which you have addressed the complexity of ancient cultures and history. In my own research, I have noticed that nothing is as simple as it might, at first, appear. (If anyone offers you an over-simplified view of the past, they're probably trying to sell you something.)

[@tired1923]

very interesting video! I heard of this civilization in a uni class last winter, but I’ve never seen it discussed on youtube or anywhere online really, it’s great that you’re making this knowledge accessible to more people.

[@TheFallofRome]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@sufficientmagister9061]

@@TheFallofRome Did the proto-Vedic deities originate from the Oxus civilization when the Indo-Aryans eventually became a part of, then took over, that civilization?

[@king_halcyon]

@@sufficientmagister9061 _they_ did not become part of the Oxus civilization, the _Oxus Civilization_ became part of them.

[@ShahanshahShahin]

​@@sufficientmagister9061 Many of the Proto-Vedic deities are actually from the Indus Valley civilization, like Shiva, who's known as Adiyogi or the First Yogi in early texts of Hinduism, and a similar figure with yogic posture was also inscribed on the seals of the IVC, known as the Pashupati seal. Pashupati is also another name for Shiva.

[@LudosErgoSum]

It's going to be a pleasure to fall asleep to this and finish it again in the morning along with my morning coffee.😮‍💨☕️

[@crystalhealing847]

I thought of the same ❤ lol

[@mg4361]

I wonder how come the Mesopotamians never mentioned this culture in their writing. They did write about the Indus Valley Civilization (Meluhha).

[@TheFallofRome]

That is something I wondered, yeah. There are hundreds of thousands of tablets we haven’t translated or worked with yet that are just sitting in museum and university archives, so I suppose it’s possible a reference is in there somewhere

[@mg4361]

@@TheFallofRomeThanks for the reply! It's an exciting prospect that context info on the BMAC might be on a clay tablet somewhere, waiting to be excavated or read.

[@TheFallofRome]

@@mg4361 no problem! Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!

[@barton2185]

@@TheFallofRome wait what!, we haven’t translate every contemporary source we have, we have accès to knowlege and just haven’t bothered to look and translate. Crazy

[@Scepticalasfuk]

@@TheFallofRome Now that we know what to look for . . .

[@andrevolker]

When 15 years ago I first heard of the discoveries made by prof Sarianidi I was blown away. Not in the least because of the immense cultural and linguistic influences the BMAC and Yaz cultures probably head on civilization. This video was a pleasant watch, thanks !

[@xanderalaniz2298]

Its amazing to learn and hear about these people. It's a shame they did not last in the records, and now with the Aral Sea disappearing, its a shame we might even lose what little connection we already had

[@elgatto3133]

The aral sea disaster is one of the saddest I can think of

[@Brian-----]

The two rivers have changed course in recorded times, have flowed into the Caspian Sea in the past, and had different courses 4,000 years ago.

[@redtobertshateshandles]

This region is on the edge of a huge snow-covered mountainous area. It's hard to appreciate how huge. For very long periods of time, there could have been extremely heavy snow falls on this mountainous area. This snow would melt every summer, and the watercourses would carry a whole lot of water. Just because somewhere is dry now, doesn't mean it couldn't be the exact opposite. The Mississippi, and Murray/ Darling River systems were areas where huge floods occur, watering vast areas. Australia especially is a land of droughts and floods. Water is life. Land around rivers is highly desirable. It's difficult for Europeans to imagine droughts, but they got a taste last summer. This place reminds me of Meso potamia.

[@Imperiused]

Very enlightening. I would love to see more digs and research funded. I wonder how much work has been done reexamining Mesopotamian texts for potential mentions of the Oxus Civilization? I can't imagine a whole lot of work has been done, given the language barriers. How many ancient Mesopotamian experts have been familiar with the scholarship on the Oxus Civilization? Hopefully there will be lot more now!

[@TY-km8hj]

Brilliant video man I'd legit never heard of this civilisation and I was pretty hooked from start to finish. I may even save up some money and go for that book. If there's other obscure, forgotten or unpopular civilisations I'd love to see more vids on them

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

We’re gradually getting access to so much of the wonderful work that Soviet-era archaeologists did during the 20th C. It takes time to translate, cross-reference and absorb information from the amazing sites that they excavated all over the huge USSR. But, how much it has changed our understanding of our past! I had heard of the BMA, but always welcome learning more about Central and East Asia civilizations.

[@sagapoetic8990]

Thank you - I greatly enjoyed this. I worked as a Peace Corps volunteer in Sayram, Kazakhstan. On the subject of metals, Kazakhstan has reserves of gold but I think the reserves were often low-keyed or considered "sensitive'. There is still a gold mine in Aksu, and I remember reading in "Hunted through Central Asia," an interesting Russian Revolution-era biography of a White Russian soldier who fled through Central Asia to China, that gold artifacts were looted by communist authorities from Sayram region, possibly from the Buddhist period. In 2001-02, road construction around Almaty was halted because of the discovery of a gold strike. If this book on the Oxus civilisation was written during the Soviet era, it would be interesting to know what was stripped out prior to its publication, that is if the original authors or their children are still alive. I can only hazard a guess, but it's possible sensitive information about precious metals but also cultural and historical findings may have been censored prior to publication.

[@MegaTang1234]

Bacteria Is probably my favorite area in ancient history, thanks for giving me more reasons to like it.

[@TY-km8hj]

Gotta love bacteria...lol

[@BSIII]

🦠🧫

[@anantbijolia8415]

@@BSIII I see what you did there....

[@vericulum6810]

*Bactria

[@migspeculates]

Dirty comment there bro

[@LIOTBs]

Well done, loved it. One of the things I really appreciated was the more moderate take and not a "must be this or must be that", but a combination of possibilities.

[@andychap6283]

Congrats on the great video. It’s really cool to hear in depth about a a topic which is rarely discussed more than superficially

[@premodernist_history]

Thanks for summarizing the state of the field. This was very useful. It is interesting that there could be archaeological evidence for soma in the BMAC. Also, I'm SO jealous you get to own a copy of The World of the Oxus Civilization.

[@TheFallofRome]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@king_halcyon]

Not that much info still.

[@stariyczedun]

BMAC - that weird ancient civilisation Indo-Iranians don't want you to know about

[@Wojitullah]

Thank you so much for covering this! I’m fascinated by the BMAC/Oxus. Wanted to purchase that book as well but it’s pricy lol. Keep the good stuff coming!

[@danatowne5498]

This is really interesting, I love that you don't shy away from questions of "how" or "why" and explain clearly that we can't know everything. I have always loved archeology and history but grew up in the mid to late 20th century where dogma frankly ruled the day. It discouraged curiosity. I'm happy for those in those fields today as they have enough tools to complicate matters to the point where "We don't know (yet, at least)" is not only a valid but an exciting point of view!

[@pistoneteo]

Sir, thanks to this video I decided to become a patreon. Good work deserves to be recognised!

[@TheFallofRome]

Thank you very much! If you’re celebrating today, merry Christmas !

[@edgarsnake2857]

Thank you THC for an enlightening presentation. I'd barely heard of the Oxus, and then, only as a precursor to Bactria.

[@TheFallofRome]

You’re welcome!

[@joshuakuehn]

I to would like to thank THC!

[@qboxer]

Mike - have any of the significant cemeteries you spoke about had archeo-genetic testing done on the bodies? I'd be extremely interested to see if this was genetically one people, who they were, and how they were related to their neighbours. As an aside - Congratulations on the fantastic viewership your new videos have gotten (both this, and the Bronze Age Europe one). Happy Christmas to you and your family!

[@TheFallofRome]

Thank you and Merry Christmas! Not that I’m aware of, but I haven’t worked my way through the entire volume I used for this video. So it might be in there

[@qboxer]

@@TheFallofRome I think they the archeo genetics are really cutting edge; might be a great thing for them to re-evaluate in the face of mass genetic testing and all of the advances

[@robbabcock_]

Terrific video! I knew nothing of this culture/civilization. It makes me wonder how many other civilizations maybe have rose and fell without any trace making to the present day.

[@bc7138]

History is often thought of by some as a closed book. It's only a matter of reinterpreting, revising, and re-evaluating preexisting data and sources that's been around for a long while. So it's always fascinating to think that this isn't the case. So much of what we know about the Sumerians, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Mayans etc have only just been discovered in the late 19th to the 20th century. So much remains to be discovered, like the as yet untranslated cuneiform tablets scattered around museums and collections. Then you have the Oxus, Cucuteni-Trypillia, Danubian etc cultures/Civilizations that have only been studied for a few decades at best. Now there's talk of an undiscovered Civilization in the Amazon waiting to be discovered and excavated too. It's exciting to be able to say that History is most certainly not a closed book.

[@AlbertaGeek]

I like the playlist you put together.

[@qwopiretyu]

The Amazonian civ is forgotten not undiscovered. The Spanish knew there was an El Dorado in the jungle because the indigenous they enslaved told them. But refugees and escaped slaves ran to it with a warning and smallpox, and by the time settlers made it that far the civ had collapsed due to epidemic

[@imwelshjesus]

Few, if any think that history is a closed book, people may ignore it, be completely ignorant of it, or simply have no interest in the subject. The Romans and the earlier Greeks valued history greatly and were well aware of many of the cultures you mentioned. Obviously with the help of 21st c tech, ease of travel and closer cultural ties we expand our knowledge. When you consider humans have been creating settlements since the Neolithic there must be many cultures yet to be found.

[@joshg8053]

Same thought here, even China with tons of untranslated primary sources still had some addition from lost texts found. In archaeological evidence, there were even greater finds like that site that proved the existence of developed societies in northern China 5000 years ago. I'm pretty sure there were a lot more to be found even for civilizations like the Greco-Romans that had archaelogically been studied for a long time since possibly the 1500s. For examples, lost Greek or Roman books could be found in monasteries in Europe or the Middle East. So much more for civilizations like the Oxus civilizations (Central Asia) and other places that people didn't really studied.

[@titanomachy2217]

History IS a closed book, unless you're some kind of...dun dun dun...revisionist? Looking back at history and questioning what we've assumed is for "deniers", you're not a "denier" are you? Huh? Ya Nazi?

[@mastershifu5799]

Really glad I found your channel, I’m learning a lot of new things. Keep up the good work!

[@adriangroborz3584]

Lovely! You definitely need some more recognition!

[@arjunsatheesh7609]

The Avesta and Vedas having similar stories was a really interesting point even if that was not a core point to note with the Oxus civilization. I have always felt that there are far too many commonalities between Zoroastrianism and the Vedic approach of Hinduism. There are many words that are similar or even common with modern Persian and Urdu and then by extension Hindi. I was sure there was a historic socio-cultural connection (across centuries maybe) between the Indus Valley Civilizations and the Mesopotamian ones. While I do not want to look at this with any preconceptions, I am sure that some legends / myths have travelled around by word of mouth. Originating in one of these civilizations, these myths must have moved around among Indo-Aryans, Oxus peoples, Mesopotamians and possibly some mixing with legends in Ancient Egypt and possibly classical Greece.

[@king_halcyon]

Amazons were Iranian-based.

[@sufficientmagister9061]

@@king_halcyon I agree; the Amazons were based off of strong, independent, Aryan, Iranian warrior-women.

[@berdigylychrejepbayev7503]

Fun fact Altyn Depe means Golden (or Gold) Hill/Height in turkmen which meant people found some gold from that hill. so that name itself means that the site was looted heavily. so bad

[@TimothyCHenderson]

I mistook this civilization for Ormus for a moment after reading the title. Interesting to hear about Oxus, never knew they existed.

[@Svensk7119]

That.... was perhaps the best history video I have ever seen on You Tube! Well done! I have not heard of the Oxus for a very long time. When I had, it was when the research of it was in its infancy. Great intro, lead-in, and explanation of both old thoughts and new on the subjects-visited. I especially liked the debunking of the Aryan invasion, as well as your pronunciation of Aryan. One shot, one kill! Or i.e., one video, one subscription! Well done!

[@titanomachy2217]

Yah only bigots think Aryans were ever a real thing. Thank goodness we've moved on since then and collectively decided whitey is evil.

[@CuFhoirthe88]

It wasn't debunked, though. It's simply that the invasions and migrations weren't the direct cause of the IVC's end due to chronology and that the Aryans who arrived in India to found Vedic civilisation at the beginning were a mix of this Andronovo-Steppe component + native BMAC peoples. Another nuance is not oversimplifying "invasion" as a single military campaign but a long process of migration, trade, cultural evolution, and yes, violent conflicts because humans are violent; the presenter cautioned us not to take rose-tinted view of the past on other matters.

[@franklindale7018]

Great video. I've been looking for info on this civilization, but it's really lacking. Thanks for investing the acedemic research book ( I know they're incredibly expensive)! One minor thing, though; I'm pretty sure the Mattanni were Indo -Aryan speakers not Indo-Iranian. Subbed to your channel, really amazing content.

[@franklindale7018]

Mitanni, sorry about spelling

[@Baka_Komuso]

Astonishing clarity, articulation and analysis of a fascinating subject earned my subscription. Looking forward to more.

[@sweetmorgan3077]

I remember reading about Bactrian artefacts in my history textbook, around 2005, I think ; I'm surprised and a bit sad that soviet research is so locked behind language and resource barriers, it is being rediscovered by western historians only just now.

[@TheFallofRome]

Yeah, it’s specifically a problem with central Asian studies in general. So much of it is in Russian

[@SunilKumar-mo9nm]

It's best video I have seen in a very long time. I think more Indians should watch this video, as I have seen people tend to imagine Indus valley civilisation as an isolated achievement, not as a interconnected world with multiple civilization. Your points about language and Vedic people were mesmerising for me. Thanks for this great video.❤

[@lkl3210]

Nice, didn't hear about this one. Cucuteni-Tryptilia though :( ? 5500 BC - 2700 BC should ve been on the map you showed of important centers of domestication, largest settlements in Neolithic Europe

[@yeseniah7373]

+ Catalhoyuc.

[@thescifiphilosopher3063]

Your visuals are amazing, it takes a lot of effort to edit these videos the way you guys do but thank you!

[@daveclose4935]

totally enjoyed this thank you for putting your time energy and effort into it

[@TheFallofRome]

Thanks for watching! I’m glad you enjoyed it

[@donscheid97]

I was not expecting to watch it all through, but I did. Rewriting history is not just a revisionist tact, but with finding new information, one must update and replace speculation with better understanding. One statement you made near the end, I think may not be accurate, however the experts will have to decide. You said a decline took place possibly due to draught over a long period of hundreds of years. Researchers have been able to put together historic climate pictures of some areas, and some show long draught periods. But they did not take long to develop, instead were just over a few dozen years to change weather patterns, then lasted a couple hundred years. So, a cities decline would be noticed and a migration out would happen in perhaps a single generation or less. Some things actually happen faster than is often assumed with long periods of the mundane in between to lull a generation into complacency.

[@worddunlap]

Clearly that was a defensive fortress. Who were the attackers?

[@TheFallofRome]

Well, probably some nomads or settled people from what is today Iran. It wasn’t a peaceful time

[@m420-nd1if]

The Chinese?

[@RhysDovey]

It sounds like the “mother civilization” could have been devastated by the droughts 4.2k years ago, and over the years after they collapsed, the shattered fragments of their civilization reformed in a new, distinct culture to the south, outside of their older, desolated homeland.

[@ryan0the0robb]

Very interesting, keep up the amazing work!

[@JAllenKaiser]

This is outstanding work. I really like your use of icons/tokens to symbolize chunks of concepts placemarking the narration. Bravo. Subscribed.

[@cole8834]

It seems likely that the circumstances of the "disappearance" of the Oxus civ are the same as the Indus civ. The Indo-Aryans/Indo-Iranians "migrated" through the entire area and become the dominant culture; although they probably didn't change the ethnic makeup very much. By the time Alexander comes into the area the Sogdians etc. are all speaking some sort of Indo-Iranian language. Its very interesting; when you look at the flat topography of these river valleys, you start seeing the massive advantage indo-euro charioteers had, militarily speaking. These civilizations probably literally had no counter. Only the ones which quickly adapted the chariot for themselves repelled the invaders. The history of the entire region as a sort of worldwide highway is beautiful in its own right.

[@orionsbelt927]

Indo Iranian was spoken by the Indo Scythians not the Feudalities of Kshatrapis which were ruled by Vedic Aryans who were speaking languages belonging to Indo Aryan branches of the language family, distinct from Indo Iranian, Vedic Aryans had presence in the subcontinent way before BMAC came into existence and the proposed date of supposed Aryan migration into the subcontinent, Micheal Wetzel notes Vedic Aryans matter of fact were in conflicts with Dahae people of this Oxus Civ, whom they used to call Dasa people. The genetic makeup of modern day Indians of Aryan ancestry have a diverse set of dna composition which they inherited from Indo Europeans of multiple descents ranging from Middle East to Eastern Europe and more and all this before 1000 bce

[@ExpatChef71]

Thanks for posting this. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching with my morning coffee.

[@Zebred2001]

Great video! I am wondering though if there has been any study on possible genetic links between the Oxus people and the Burusho people, who reside in northern Pakistan and northern Jammu and Kashmir, India. They speak Burushaski which is a language unrelated to any other. I would imagine that the Burusho are the last of the original peoples of this part of central Asia.

[@fomoviews2642]

Actually there is a theory that Burusho people are the natives of Indus valley who were forced to migrate to Himalayan regions due to movement of indo Aryans into the indian subcontinent. They have literally no Greek dna haplogroup which is found in large populations among Punjabis, pathans and also they have no arabic or turkic admixture which means they migrated to these regions before Greeks arrived into india.

[@touchstoneaf]

Okay this is my new favorite channel.

[@HomeRudeGirlz]

There are a few civilizations I've never heard about

[@jamesraymond1158]

Great scholarship. Thank you. One suggestion, include some scenes made by an artist to show everyday life consistent with what is known. I think that would attract a lot more viewers.

[@stupidminotaur9735]

The Denisovans cave site close by has/had a ton of evidence of horses(a close relative) so much that some are thinking they might have be domesticated.

[@TheFallofRome]

Oh that’s very interesting! I didn’t come across that. Although, we’re taking about two totally different periods here

[@stupidminotaur9735]

@NoDramaJustLove oldest remains of the wolf that would become dogs. is at a nearthhadals site so they might have been the og's for dogs.

[@fabriziomangione3231]

Dude, you are the best!

[@joz6683]

I first heard of Bactria while reading the book Persian Fire by Tom Holland. Thanks for this dealing with less well known topics.

[@bigboy379]

First. 🎉🎉🎉 this channel is awesome

[@TheFallofRome]

Thank you!

[@kushantaiidan]

This is some cutting edge stuff. Fascinating!

[@parissabastani1239]

In old persian mythology the origin of Arians were the " aeria vaeja" you can find this palace in the book of Zarathustra, Avesta. Their last king was" Fereydoon" because of population growth and climate change his 3 sons migrate with part of the population to Europe, Iran and other part of Asia called " Tooran" .

[@titanomachy2217]

The Arians? As in Arianism? That's a kind of heterodox Christianity. I think you mean Aryans.

[@parissabastani1239]

@@titanomachy2217 sorry for the misspelling my dictation is not very good

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Thank you for purchasing the text and presenting the work.

[@Zogerpogger]

Everything was prohibitively expensive for me, until I discovered Z-Library...and then it was seized -_- But there's still Library Genesis! Overall physical books are so much nicer, and studies (+ personal experience) show that material read on physical media is remebered and understood better. Ebooks are also unreliable in that their licences can expire and all kinds of junk can happen. So If I can afford a physical copy I'll try to get it, but otherwise I'm snagging a free PDF.

[@spacerx]

I've only never heard of it because everyone calls it BMAC. It's not better known as the Oxus civilization, it's much better known as the BMAC. As such, it's a huge part of the Indo-European story and studies.

[@Sgtassburgler]

I find it very difficult to believe there was not actually a Danube major civilization around this time that has yet to be realized.

[@k.umquat8604]

There is the Vinca culture, who built large cities

[@KuK137]

Existence of big unknown civilizations in Europe is pretty unlikely seeing the place had been dug through from one end to the other. Maybe there is something in one of the poorer countries but certainly not in the heavily populated areas, seeing how easy other major civilizations were too find. Also, why they wouldn't leave trace in later texts like others?

[@ЈугославНиколић]

@@KuK137 Here you are with the smart comment! Poorer countries woudn't be such, without constant waves of occupation from those not poor.

[@ЈугославНиколић]

@@k.umquat8604 Vinča culture? Not a "civilisation"? With two store buildings, hundreds of them, arranged into streets, some with movable heating stoves, towns with thousands of inhabitants, thousand years before this one from the video! With a writing sistem in which for some letters, that are now pronunced the same way, they had the same graphic representition. Letter "M", for example, connected with the word "mama" and the process of giving birth and first baby's sound! With melting of copper, tin and making bronze tools, before other that left traces of it found until today! Still not given a title of "civilisation", just "a culture", because it flourished in the territory of what are now"poorer countries", and it left some traditions, but not just to not "poorer countries"

[@k.umquat8604]

@@ЈугославНиколић When I say "culture" I don't mean to degrade the Vinca.

[@johnspencer3794]

The archeologists going to scratch their heads trying to interpret all those plastic pocahontas cups still existing in our moms cupboard after 30 years 😂

[@xTheJmanChannel]

Shouldn't Ethiopia be added to the regions of advanced ancient civilizations with the Egyptians? Places like Kerma and Meroe, and Kingdoms like Kush, and Nubia. I also think some of the Arabian tribes like the Nabataeans and Sabaeans were advanced and built great dams and such.

[@burntbybrighteyes]

Yes but I feel this civilization map shown is very incomplete in general. Even in the Balkans there was a civilization with cities several thousand years bc.

[@luckydog8514]

i think the map is specifically referring to the oldest civilizations not every old civilization

[@209Richsta]

Holy shit, im glad I stumbled across this and thanks for uploading. This makes alot of sense too. During the Bronze Age I remember either it was copper or tin( I forgot which one) that came from that area. I always wondered why that area wasn't under control of like the Egyptians or the Hittites. Or why their were no major battles over the area. U just got another subscriber bro.

[@shgjjj2879]

Appreciate the video, thought provoking that between the big 4 ancient river valley civilizations there may be ones like the Oxxus. I suspect climate change and migration may be the main cause of there decline but their culture would still be influential potentially to the modern day.

[@GoldSilverShop]

You mentioned a book in Russian that you used for this video. Do you have a reference to that book please? Thank you

[@AWildBard]

It's true, I've never heard of it and I also know why I haven't heard of it before. Very interesting This was ancient history for Alexander. Wikipedia says Zoroaster may have been born in this area.

[@julierobertson148]

This was all new to me. Thank you for stressing that we only know what we know. Now we think we know a little of what and where the Oxus civilization was but archeology creates a kaleidoscope pattern that can shift quickly and dramatically change our view, leaving a completely new and different pattern of history we never anticipated.

[@korakys]

Very interesting video, thanks.

[@TheFallofRome]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@3tic]

basically their empire was the birth of the silk road, it seems like

[@eightyfiv32]

So I wasn't wrong when I mistakinly put syrdarya and amudarya, on a question on which rivers did the first civilizations emerged ... 😂😅

[@j.proctor2117]

This was just such great work. Refreshing to see an evident high-minded and appreciative following.

[@andersschmich8600]

Bactria-Margiana Archeological Complex!

[@danbaeckstrom2189]

Very interesting. There is however one thing I do not understand. At 27:25, you state that the Indo-Iranian steppe-dwellers must have entered the Oxus area by way of the "Inner Asian mountain corridor". Maybe there is archaeological evidence for that, but in the presentation it appears that this route is described as the a priory most likely. If so, can't understand why that should be. Why didn't they just move south over the plains north of the Aral Sea, which seem much more easily traversed?

[@jamesbusald7097]

Here's hoping for more development of this history.

[@fordprefect5304]

Great video. Thank you for your post. Do you have anything on the The Danube Valley civilization which I just heard about. Like a week ago.

[@TheFallofRome]

Not at the moment but I have a video on it in the works. If you want some reading on the subject “the lost world of old Europe” by David Anthony is what is recommend

[@tutorialesminecraft8930]

Most of people who know about its existence sees it more like a culture. We don't know it's language, neither the rulers, but they left a lot of artifacts and some ruins, but that's just a portion of the nation and the rest seems very dark to us. Actually, i knew that the Oxus existed for about 4400 years ago, but i only knew that was more like a culture rather than a civilization.

[@elizabethjansen2684]

I'd heard of Bactrim civilization quite a long time ago. Very little said and pretty much nothing since. Thanks for the information update.

[@grahamturner1290]

Most enlightening! 👍

[@andrewrollinson7739]

I love how much you sound like Sam the Bald Eagle from the Muppet Show. It makes me trust you implicitly.

[@DIREWOLFx75]

Not my specialty, but didn't the region shown include some of the important materials traded far and wide? IIRC, i read somewhere that there were important tin(?) mines somewhere in/around Afghanistan? If so, i find the date of this civilisation's decline rather interesting, as its decline happens relatively connected to the "bronze age collapse"...

[@TheFallofRome]

Yes that’s exactly right

[@sumerandaccad]

Don't keep thinking people haven't heard of the civilisations. Some of us have

[@generalaigullletes5830]

second (this channel is AWESOME)

[@TheFallofRome]

Thank you!

[@hyperanemoia8842]

What world map did you use for this video? It looks really good

[@TheFallofRome]

Just one of the basic maps on Wikipedia

[@kekero540]

can you do the Cucuteni-trypillic culture next?