The Palworld Lawsuit Is Worse Than You Think

[@kevinbergen7746]

As someone with nine years of experience and counting in the IP/patent-space (US and international, both in litigation and preparation and prosecution of patent applications) I feel compelled to say a few things despite knowing the comments section I'm about to say them in. Also, apologies in advance for a wall of text. The main patent in this suit, Japanese Patent 2021-208275, was filed Dec. 22, 2021. The Japanese base priority on filing date, so Japanese 2021-208275 also has Dec. 22, 2021 as its priority date. Other patents in suit, e.g., Japanese 2023-0191255 and US20240278129 come to mind, are continuations (or children) of Japanese 2021-208275 (the parent). And while some of the children asserted in this suit, particularly US20240278129, may have been filed after the release of Palworld, they all claim priority back to the parent, so they too all have a priority date of Dec. 22, 2021. However, the ability of child patents to claim priority back to the parent does come at a cost of shorter lifespan of the children. For example, if a parent patent was filed June 1, 2019 and a child was filed June 1, 2024, the child would have priority of June 1, 2019 with an expiration of June 1, 2039 rather than June 1, 2044. Now, if you review these patents, they are directed toward the new systems (an entire engine, really) of battling and capturing introduced in Pokemon Legends Arceus (or “PLA,” which released January 28, 2022) and implemented in subsequently released main-line Pokemon games such as Scarlet and Violet (or “S&V,” which released November 18, 2022) - basically the throwing of a Pokeball, capturing of a Pokemon, battling normal Pokemon, battling boss Pokemon, and sending out/recalling a Pokemon in a 3D space. As some examples, 2023-0191255 has claims directed toward/provides technical specifications on: increasing capture rate/capture success chance as the target Pokemon/boss Pokemon takes damage, displaying a capture success indicator, different types of Pokeball/capture devices having different base capture success rates, claims for what is effectively the Paldex, establishing an aiming direction for a Pokeball when attempting to capture a Pokemon and when releasing a Pokemon onto the field, there's even a claim for the Pokeball returning to the trainer's hand after successfully capturing the target Pokemon/boss Pokemon. Palworld, which was released on January 19, 2024, meaning Palworld was released over two years after the priority date of the Japanese parent, just under 2 years after the release of PLA, and approx.14 months after the release of S&V. I have to be honest, it sure seems like Palworld implements a lot of these systems. And I can't help but find it funny how there was conversation around how blatantly and obviously Palworld copied Pokemon, but now that Nintendo is defending one of its main IPs, one of the most successful IPs in history, people are up in arms. Yes, prior art and invalidity come into play here, as they do with every patent suit. However, prior art landscape seems pretty barren (even if games older than Pokemon implement similar ideas, it's irrelevant unless they have a patent for it and choose to enforce), and through the magic of computer-readable medium (or CRM) claims and a fairly robust specification, there are don't seem to be any glaringly obvious validity issues. Next, to clarify what rights (really singular right) patents grant patent holders -- patents grant an exclusive right to exclude others from practicing the disclosed invention. That right to exclude comes at the cost of a complete disclosure of the invention containing sufficient technical detail to enable any person of ordinary skill in the art to re-create the disclosed invention 1:1. This level of transparency is intended to promote innovation, but obviously raises concerns of people ripping off what you disclosed, hence the right to exclude. Finally, to address Force’s points that games won’t be able to release with patented systems until existing patents expire - that is simply not true. If a similar or even identical system/mechanic/engine is released with a substantially different technical implementation and/or is implemented in a technically superior way, then there is NOT infringement. Part of the point of requiring complete and thorough disclosures in order to obtain a patent is to promote this kind of iteration and technical improvement throughout the industry. Sure, Nintendo could sue someone who throws traps at monsters in seemingly the same way as is done in PLA/S&V, but if the system of capturing in the accused game is technically different (e.g., as explained above), then that game won’t infringe and Nintendo will have wasted time and money. This may well be what happens in this case - as discovery gets awarded and the source code of Palworld gets reviewed, it may come to light that that Palworld does things in a way other than what is patented by Nintendo/in a way that is superior to what is patented by Nintendo. Have to point out that Force is correct in saying that companies could license things in order to use them as is. There’s lots of history of this with, e.g., ICs used in mobile devices, but video games are uncharted territory to this point. But yeah, generally speaking, we could play games with something akin to the Nemesis system (or load screen minigames, or any other example Force mentioned) from other studios if those studios come up with a technically distinct/superior way of implementing it, or if the studio is willing to license it. Quick edit: Copy + pasting of source code is not required for infringement. Actually doing so could serve to increase damages, but you can still infringe if 100% of code in your game is unique. Edit 2: Reading comments that Pocket Pair is claiming development of Palworld began as early as 2020. Generally speaking, simply claiming to work, or even actually working on something in private does not qualify as prior art. Further, "information-kept secret" is generally not considered prior art. However, it seems like printed publications made available to the public (e.g, press releases or demo videos) demonstrating Pocket Pair was working on the systems Nintendo is suing them over could help Pocket Pair. (At least in the US producing such publications would likely serve as prior art in Pocket Pair's favor). Bear in mind, Nintendo is also allowed to dip back into its (absolutely massive) games catalog, catalog of press releases, etc. to find evidence of it implementing these systems in its own games (doesn't have to be a Pokemon game) before whatever date Pocket Pair puts forth.

[@ForceGamingYT]

Appreciate the informative and detailed breakdown here. As mentioned the legal side of this (or anything) is far out of my depth - and I’m happy to have people knowledgeable on the topic chiming in to the conversation. So again, thanks for the information, I’ll be sure to take this into any future discussions on the topic.

[@ForceGamingYT]

Curious as well for cases like this, would the source code be reviewed by some trusted third party? To prevent companies filing Patent Lawsuits just to gain access to another games source code? (Not implying that’s Nintendo’s angle, just curious in general)

[@salinaember9527]

finally someone who uses their brain and not their emotions. thanks for the info

[@Soroosh.S83]

Thanks for the information

[@karonuva]

This would make sense cause when playing Palworld in my opinion the gameplay feel was very reminiscent of PLA.

[@jonrainbow123]

i remember when i first learned why the nemesis system wasnt EVERYWHERE in games. It felt exactly like the kind of system that would get copied over and over....and ive never been more pissed off at the state of gaming.

[@tsunamie1015]

Would have loved to see a game that actually irones out the problems the system in "Shadow of War" has, or even just in a more appropriate setting, yet here we are ...

[@Guarrow]

If it weren't for Warner Bros, it would have been used in other games I think. Gaming companies usually don't give a damn if you use their patents, as they're probably yours anyway. Warner Bros isn't a gaming company tho, so they're going to make you pay for that, which is pretty pathetic on their part that's for sure

[@freelancerthe2561]

For over 30 years you've been forced to sit through loading screens with nothing to do, because Namco had a patent on it. The patent expired in 2017. Despite being open for everyone to do, its been so ingrained in the dev culture, and players not even knowing it was ever a thing, hardly anyone ever thinks to do something like this in modern games. And supposedly it USED to be fairly common prior to that patent. As much as one could make an argument that it doesn't matter now that load times are so fast. Consider Nintendo games on carts were pretty fast loading, yet when Nintendo wanted to show something off, you'd have easter eggs like being able to play with Mario's Face in Mario 64's pre-title screen. A lot of Sega games on the Genesis/Megadrive let you mess with the Sega start up logo.

[@adakahless]

@@Guarrow UbiSoft could have used it for Assassin's Creed...just thinking about how epic Odyssey could have been with that system.

[@ApotheosisTunes]

imagine if directors couldn't use similar story telling in movies. Like nobody is allowed to make a movie like pulp fiction's nonlinear time line.

[@evanmccue736]

The "nemesis" system from the LotR games was the top tier ridiculous patent that nailed its own coffin shut...

[@DudeSoWin]

When the patent expires and they have yet to release anything then they should be open to legal retribution.

[@BatLB]

@@DudeSoWin oh I totally agree. Patents not used by their owner should make them liable to "potential losses" by other companies. patents shouldnt be allowed to just exist to take away things from the world.

[@evanmccue736]

@@DudeSoWin That would normally be the case, but I heard the new "Wonder Woman" game that's coming out is using the nemesis machanic... Would that refresh the patent?

[@mewimi]

How did it even get patented? That is like patenting natural story progression and character development lol.

[@roboorb8477]

​@mewimi patent law is there to protect monopolies from competition, nothing more.

[@Reelix]

Create a patent for "The progression of a character by gaining experience which subsequently leads to levelling up" and sue half the RPG's in existence.

[@Nomo-sapiens]

It doesn't affect "prior art" but that would be awful for future games.

[@Sensei_Naritai]

It has already done by final fantasy to avoid patent trolls...

[@elizabethyoung5304]

Lol it just shows how totally ridiculous this lawsuit really is. I hope Palworld devs win. Game mechanics shouldn’t be patented.

[@GemCityRCOutlaws]

im gonna make a patent about making patents for video games,LMFAO

[@Seriously_Unserious]

@@elizabethyoung5304 And even if they were, it should require the patent to be very laser focussed and specific. Not so broad you could interpret it to using an object to capture a creature and store it in a system, which could refer to Pokemon competitors and copycats, but could just as easily be applied to a police game, where the creature capture system is the handcuffs and police vehicles, and the creature storage system are the jails, and the creatures are the suspects being arrested. Heck even baseball could have a logical argument for these pokemon creature capture patents being applied. The pitcher throws the ball over Home Plate, the hitter hits the ball down the first base line, into the right field corner, the right fielder picks the ball up and throws it to 3rd base, the 3rd baseman catches the ball, and tags the runner out. The runner is sent to his dugout. The ball is the creature capture mechanism, along with the tag, and the dugout is the creature storage system, with the baseball players being the creatures. How can a patent system allow for things so vague and broad it can apply to nearly anything if one applies enough imagination to it and makes a big enough stretch. These patents can jeopardize not only creature capture and training games, but also police games, sports games, ranching and farm simulation games, zoo games, and even military games that include a PoW or capture system, or thrown weapons that could be described as infringing on throwing pokeballs.

[@ladariusholmes1215]

World: "Hey Warner Bros. That nemesis system is dope. Can we use it?" WB: NO! It's our idea! World: Naw, that makes sense. Are you gonna use it again?" WB:......No.

[@ltcinsane]

WB: We shall hoard this IP and forces others to pay us to use it! *time passes* WB: ........ why hasn't anyone approached us to license our game mechanic?

[@Marinealver]

Haven't they shuttered their gaming division yet? Besides Nemesis is now obsolete as you can have AI learning that way which COMPLETELY CIRCUMVENTS the patent.

[@nixxu3546]

because its quite complex and not many game can we easily put it to scenario.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Because nobody likes Warner bros anymore

[@maharghjoshi228]

​@@Cubeytheawesomeyeah that 😂😂

[@elronsinclair7847]

Now we wait, which one will last longer, the nemesis mechanic pattent or WB gaming division?

[@coryaustin7379]

It has to be a running joke in the Japanese legal system like a 9-5 guy who works at the court house says hi to Nintendo every day he goes to work since Nintendo basically lives in the courtroom.

[@Drimirin]

What a useless job on both sides. Go build something, make your life actually benefit humanity.

[@Marinealver]

Well that's like every lawyer and major corporations.

[@chriswihulu]

Nintendo should just rebrand themselves as a law firm, with an active Game Development office 😂

[@Subject_Keter]

​@@Drimirin I think it better we let them throw paper "lawsuits" over the other stuff you can throw 😂 Copyright the air out of your lungs. 😂

[@clanpsi]

Suits in a nutshell.

[@Wurps]

The whole patent system is just a poorly functioning relic from a different time, it shouldn't have been allowed to work on vague concepts nor be allowed to block progress for an entire generation, a few years at best.

[@Bickiiification]

Patents are NOT allowed to work on vague concepts. Every patented thing Has to be EXTREMELY detailed in specification. Patents just dont work how you think they do. Go read a little before you will make an opinion on a subject you CLEARLY have no idea about...

[@karakuri3035]

​@@Bickiiification we got a nintedo meat rider over here😂

[@sheebuhenu4074]

​@@yos-x5e because it's frustrating when people talk out their ass

[@uHasioorr]

@@Bickiiification Throwing object to capture npc in virtual world is pretty vague.

[@SilvyReacts]

@@Bickiiification While this is true, it's also not true. You are not supposed to be allowed to file for vague concepts and all that, but for some reason some patents have gone through that are essentially exactly that. The fact they can patent a game mechanic process that involves the capturing of creatures by throwing a device is absurd even if it's described in a very specific way. That would be like patenting the ability to drive a car in a game just because you were able to write the description of it down in as specific a way as you could. I think one of the biggest issues is, patent offices likely have no idea about game development or game mechanics, and so when they read through these patents, they have no idea what they are doing. So if it sounds detailed and specific enough, then they just allow it through without much real thought.

[@novusparadium9430]

Best thing about this lawsuit is its set a precedent where nintendo may never be allowed to patent concepts ever again. I hope palworld wins.

[@unknown_yt_gaming]

Woud like too but Lol behind how manny moons do you live?

[@DarkMirria1]

Same.

[@YdenMk-II]

As an Dynasty Warriors fan, the Capcom vs Koei lawsuit is the one that gets me.Capom won the lawsuit against the Xtreme Legends series of games because they had a patent on “unlocking bonus content when the DVD-ROM of the latest title of a game series is set in a game console, by placing the DVD-ROM of the previous title of the game series into the console.” I don't even know if they used this patent themselves but they effectively got a patent on the concept of expansion discs on PS2.

[@Marine5D]

That is neat. I believe this is anti consumer move. Maybe consumer rights should be evaluated before patents are created. It baffles me that patent system and abuse of it in the end always f***s consumers. Shouldn't be allowed, especially if we are expecting for innovations to come through.

[@herplederpledoodledoo]

@@Marine5D It all makes sense when you realize every law in the world is either meant to 'make rich people richer' or 'placate the masses so they don't murder rich people' with literally nothing in between.

[@redcell9636]

​@@herplederpledoodledoo That is such a cultural-marxist biased view i don't even know where to start with that. Never attribute to malice what could be attributed to negligence. Because of the inefficient loophole people will just do it. The real issue is that law keeps treating corporations as if they were a person, not jist a mass of companies and employees. If you can't see that, then you are making an argument for stealing (what you would call distribution of wealth) or anarchy if you believe laws are only "for the rich"

[@bigdongroma539]

Japan had a meme patent that lasted for an year about "the act of weighting meat before selling it to the client", Japan patent office was a damn mistake.

[@jsmith3946]

the fda has the same thing

[@fumomofumosarum5893]

guess the office was desperate for patents that day...

[@Sylfa]

Software patents were born in united states.

[@szymonrozanski6938]

@@Sylfa Yeah but Japan has its own LEGAL system wich the USA ones are thrown out of the window. Thats why they are suing Palword FROM Japan to get that home advantage.

[@Sylfa]

@@szymonrozanski6938 I'm not sure what you're getting at; yes a Japanese company uses Japanese courts just like a US based company uses US courts. But it would be the same if not worse in a US court.

[@Hammer1987]

Patents should have a "use it or lose it" clause. Also, the duration of a patent should be tailored to how long it takes to recuperate r&d costs and to generate profit in that particular industry. So for video games, a 5-10 year period seems the most reasonable. Anything exceeding 15 years is just absurd considering how fast the industry is changing and developing new technologies. Game mechanic patents, along with multi-platform games, are the main forces slowing down innovation in the gaming industry, in my humble opinion. I really hope we never end up in a Kessler syndrome situation with patents. Where there are so many gaming related patents being held by large corporations that indie developers are unable to create anything new at all for fear of getting sued into oblivion. I don't know how likely that is, but stupid stuff that shouldn't happen, somehow, happens all the time.

[@SSGoatanks]

Nintendo should sue King Kong for having the same last name as Donkey Kong 🐒

[@InsanityIsOurNature]

Hammer underrated comment, that would be a positive change to the patent system.

[@findlaymurray397]

Yeah, if you can't prove you are using a patented mechanic In a game very recently released or currently in development, than you shouldn't be able to stop others from using the mechanic.

[@kevbu4]

Establish product patent categories by the average profitable lifespan of the product, and make the span of the patent maybe double the profitable life span. The statistics and math would get a little complex but there aren't many video games that continue making significant profits more than a few years after release. Perhaps add some exceptions for iterative release cycles like we see with some franchises.

[@Goomba_Smash]

@@SSGoatanks Nintendo was sued because Donkey Kong had the same last name as King Kong

[@MYM-FlameHaze]

I really wish digimon would make a law suite against pokemon cuz they were first

[@CapitalTeeth]

Nintendo suing the country of Italy because people are called Mario and Luigi in it:

[@Techigai]

Hell, they would do it if some Italian plumber started jumping on turtles for money.😂

[@Andr3a2810]

Man, I'm italian and both my grandfather and dad are called Mario and Luigi respectively I'm scared now

[@Hellismary]

You thought you cooked huh? 🤣

[@saturationstation1446]

everyone in europes name is maniacal barbarian

[@LoDown295]

@@Hellismary😂

[@SSJ_EWGF]

It's funny how patents are claimed to protect innovation, so that an artist can feel secured that their creation won't be stolen, and yet all they actually achieve in the modern age is corporations abusing it to stifle competition, thus _preventing_ innovation... Instead of learning from Palworld and improving their own product in Pokémon, Nintendo would rather out sue the competition, so that they don't exist in the first place. Classic corporate greed everyone👏

[@neurosis51]

why compete when you can sue possible competitors out of existence? Gotta make sure your loyal corpo worshiping consoomers have no other options, otherwise they might actually develop standards and buy an actually good monster tamer game.

[@kingt1954]

Us pokemon fans are the first that criticize TPC for the shit that SV is Most of us are disappointed by the last games. But the designs of Palworld are way to similar to pokemons to the point some of them are straight up copies Also, don't talk like Palworld is "competition" for Pokemon💀 You're talking about on of the biggest franchise in the world

[@brad-r3h]

@@kingt1954 who cares that there similar to designs I for one don't. yea there are a couple that are just pallet swaps basically but if Nintendo couldn't sue them for that then who cares

[@kingt1954]

@@brad-r3h it's the fact someone can straight up copy the work of a famous company and get supported just because everyone hates the company recent games

[@hellfrozenphoenix13]

​@kingt1954 competition doesn't have to be nearly as big as the other company to be called as such. It's how many alternatives are available. 1) McDonalds is a Juggernaut of fast food and is, by a large margin,the number one franchise in the industry. However, alternatives like burgerkng,Wendy's, Jack-on-the-box, etc give it competition and customers have options. 2) We need alternatives. if one sits above all competition , they lose all reason to improve or innovate?

[@djsyntic]

Conversely, some people don't even try to evolve game mechanics. How many games exist with a fishing mechanic that you could describe this way? "A bar appears vertically or horizontally, and a fish graphic appears on the bar. The fish then moves along that bar while the player moves a box or marker to match the fish's movement. If the player keeps the marker on the fish long enough, they catch it. If too much time passes with the marker not on the fish, the fish escapes." Or how about the other fishing mini-game that games like to use. Your fishing lure floats in the water until it vibrates or makes a sound. You then press a button and you catch the fish. Wait to long and the fish escapes. Heck, some even mix both fishing games. Your lure floats in the water until a signal happens, you press a button and the fish bar mini-game starts. There HAS to be a more interesting fishing game than this, but again, so many games just do something like the above because it's easy and everyone understands how it works.

[@cyzcyt]

Konami actually has a video game fishing patent that expired in 2019. It describes that exact function and implementation patents.google.com/patent/EP0987051A2/en Abstract A video game apparatus implementing a simulating fishing game displays an animation image representing behavior of a fish hooked on a lure. The video game apparatus has a first determining unit determines that a first condition has been met, when a fish is hooked on a lure by the operation of a game procedure controlling unit, or when the fish under the control of the game procedure controlling unit exhibits such a behavior as to apply a strong tension on the fishing line or to jump up above the water surface. An animation display controlling unit causes a monitor to display an animation image which has been stored in a storage medium and which represents a fished hooked on a fishing line, in such a manner as to enable identification of the fisher character who has hit the fish. A switching unit switches the game display screen displayed on the monitor from the fishing image to the animation image, when the first determining unit has determined that the first condition is met.

[@Ragetiger1]

Guess that's why fishing in No Man's Sky is so much different. The line changes color to tell you when to press and hold the button to catch the fish.

[@ksl-988]

Same for EA abandoning the Sims and pushing it into a mobile game. Meanwhile InZoi is coming getting ready to kill it for good. I'm betting EA will try to sue them as well.

[@DynoSkrimisher]

Sea of Thieves was pretty good in that regard.

[@cody9253]

that just sounds like how fishing works in stardew valley

[@DynoSkrimisher]

"Game Company patents parries and perfect blocking." *80% of action games vanish out of existence.* Also, did Minecraft patent the mechanic of combined two used items to make a version that's fully repaired?

[@the_Periador]

thats why the nemesis system patent is nothing more than a scare tactic. I really doubt it could hold in court if it came to it.

[@denrizza]

When a patent is designed to stifle competition, it ALWAYS be questioned.

[@Bickiiification]

Altough its not. You can easily go around this patent by making "pokeballs" square. Or rectangular. Or making them cards. There are tons of alternatives, games like Nexomon and TemTem did that and had no problem whatsoever.

[@Lily-xl4hg]

​@@Bickiiificationit clearly is especially since these were made after Palworld was released and some after Nintendo was made aware of Palwords development.

[@roboorb8477]

That's literally the purpose of patents.

[@nonamenoname9352]

uhhh a patent is literally a timed monopoly on a specific idea or design. It is by definition used to prevent competitors from directly competing.

[@D3adCl0wn]

@@Bickiiification It's not just the shape, but the mechanics as well. Question is, will they then enforce this industry wide? The patent might be in place but they still have to enforce it, and it seems like Palworld is gonna take the first hit.

[@maximegiroux8353]

Wow... Imagine if CoD had patented ''shooting a gun'' ... that would have been fun.

[@antarchy1]

Duck Hunt would own that.

[@obiwankenoobi4202]

​@@antarchy1Oregon trail

[@antarchy1]

@@obiwankenoobi4202 Good point. No hunting games. We could never have dysentery mechanics again.

[@vivid8979]

Shooting a gun is a game mehanic already existed before CoD... I get what you're trying to say but you used a bad example.

[@jeffcarrier9808]

If they can't, Nintendo shouldn't be able to do this either, because these were files months after Palworld launched into Early Access.... unless it falls to whoever did it first?

[@davidjh113]

Companies being sued left and right for monopolistic and predatory practices, yet here we are with a multi-multi-billion company suing an indie company over frivolent patents. Too bad that Dragon Quest Monsters didn't patent monster capturing before Nintendo.

[@etherraichu]

We don't know if its frivolous yet.

[@JohnDoe-bf7hb]

Or Digimon, since it was released first, before Pokemon.

[@kaineskeptic6484]

@@JohnDoe-bf7hb Pokemon was 1996, Digimon was 1997. Prior to both was Tamagochi which was a little digital pet on a key chain which is nothing like Pokemon.

[@Drakkenjoe]

​@etherraichu nintendo attack for mechanic patent violated So that's obviously frivolous.

[@jeffreydallas6047]

You know these patents keep everyone from ripping off everyone else's game and we get dozens of identical games right? They actually promote creativity. Definitely sucks some of these things like nemesis system but seriously. Everyone has been saying since day 1 palworld is a rip off of pokemon. You what's nice a big company suing a smaller company because the small company wasn't creative enough. What would really suck if for 10 major companies for the past 20 years all made COD modern warfare. And for the past ten years 20 companies all made fortnight. You would hope all of these games would be different but by the time they became trilogies they'd just have different maps. Probably not even different character names or skins. Palworld is a knock off and even my mom who's in her 60s knows it.

[@Asylum_1934]

I started playing Palworld because there were no pokemon games on pc. If Nintendo shuts down Palworld, I will never buy any Nintendo product for the rest of my life.

[@YoshihitoBLM]

Nintendo is just such a scummy company now. Mechanics should not be able to be patented. I agree things like capturing creatures in balls, if it looks too closely like their designs, should not be allowed. But they don't own and weren't even the first to come up with creature capture mechanics. Hell, humans have been capturing, taming, and riding beasts for millennia. And sleep mechanics? What the hell, are they going to sue humans for sleeping and trying to improve that as well? There's also patents they've filed and were approved long after the release of Palworld. Just scummy tactics all around.

[@eamk887]

"Now"??? They've been doing stupid legal shit like this for decades.

[@Bickiiification]

I understand that your feelings are riled and its such a "hip" thing to hate on corporations for the sake of hating on corporations, but You have absolutely no idea how patents work and what patents Nintendo holds...

[@YoshihitoBLM]

@@Bickiiification I have a very good idea on how patents work. I actually hold one for an invention of mine. Also, finding the patents that Nintendo holds is publicly available information and many have already been found that can be linked to Palworld in some way. Like Force, however, I agree that patents for game mechanics are scummy. You can disagree all you want though. Just makes you look like a White Knight simp for Failtendo.

[@YoshihitoBLM]

@@eamk887 True, lol.

[@TheNatos]

im willing to bet you still throw your money at them whenever they release a new pokemon or zelda.

[@GGxGinge]

The biggest shame for me in a patent is the nemesis system, I think I saw a video on it (glad you mentioned it) and they mentioned how great the system would be in a new batman game.

[@Not0bito]

Does WB not own batman? I thought I remembered playing a batman game as a kid with WB logo appearing

[@quizkill]

Imagine in GTA...gang member kills you, rises up the rank, becomes harder to kill and actively tries to move in on your territory. A cop kills you, gets promoted, becomes harder to kill, and joins in on the hunt when you have a wanted level....

[@GGxGinge]

@@Not0bito They do, I just meant in terms that they seem dead set on not using or allowing for the system to be used.

[@ThatGuyNamedRick]

Activision just patented sharing achievements to other players for rewards, remember that Call of Duty game that forced you to watch someone else's lootbox opening? Yeah, that's patented as well.

[@thatHARVguy]

@@ThatGuyNamedRick Hang on, they patented watching someone gamble? 👀

[@cvsnake7031]

If you look at the Patent, the date it was made was MONTHS after Palworld was launched....

[@Notivarg]

I read a comment that it was just re-filed in the US on that date, and in Japan it was filed like a year earlier, and they're getting sued in Japan.

[@TwistedFew]

Also half of them aren't granted yet they are pending.

[@Bearhuggerus]

@@Notivarg Which is still the same result, because they've shown the mechanic at least 2 years before. But the JP filing date should definitely be showcased.

[@quizkill]

If that's true. I think palworld just has to show when active development began and when the capture mechanic was implemented.

[@epsilon1670]

@@quizkill they can just use their previous game craftopia which palworld is basically a rehash and modified version of that also has an almost identical catch system which came out a couple years prior.

[@Nemesis-pe7mw]

That you can patent game mechanics like this is absolutely ridiculous. Honestly anyone that tries to patent something like this they should get criminally charged. If they try and such a patent they deserve to excommunicated from society as they've proven they cannot be a part of one. The whole patent system is screwed up and needs to be completely refactored! You should be able to file a patent, that is not the problem. It has to be for something innovative though, it should also not be allowed to be used to block something from existing. If you have a patent and aren't actively making anything that it is based on, then too bad you lose it. If someone wants to use your patent you're obliged to provide them the rights to do so for a realistic price.

[@Lethmyr_]

How the f can there even be patents for artforms? Imagine someone patenting drawing styles or the use of specific colors in pictures.

[@FallingStar1080]

​@@Bickiiificationyou don't comprehend English that well, that much is evident

[@lorenzamccoy7512]

​@@FallingStar1080It's probably Nintendo's lawyer lol 😂

[@Athena6]

​​@@Bickiiification**cough** pantone **cough cough**

[@MOWAuthor]

Specific colors in pictures is patented. In fact that's one of the primary purposes of Patents, for large companies to patent a specific shade of a color for use in their branding and logo's, etc. Still stupid as hell, but since its literally taught in school, it's pretty easy to imagine.

[@Kanonenwind]

@@MOWAuthor No, colors and logos can be trademarks, not patents. You can't patent "having a purple logo", you can file a trademark for "this shade of purple as a telecoms company"

[@stillbuyvhs]

5:14 Wait.... Nintendo already did something like that in Pokémon Yellow. Your rival would change his monster lineup based on how well you did in previous battles. Might that invalidate WB's patent?

[@DraconianSG]

Made before the patent

[@genybr]

> Your rival would change his monster lineup based on how well you did in previous battles. Formally this is against any form of competition. And foemally even Ghosts'n'Gobblins violates this patent

[@Talishmar]

They'd have to start a court battle to prove it. Which is Assuming they'd want to target each other, or to get justice to begin with. It's much more more lucrative to only fight those who can't fight back.

[@JackFraust6661]

This patent would technically also target games like Ark since it uses cryos to house captured creatures that you can ride on.

[@JackWyman]

Not quite. The cryo captures can be used on creatures that are still agressive after catch, which is different from the patent. Also the cryo storage device is not an orb like object, but a device with angles in the design, and placed, rather than thrown (if remembered correctly), thus also differing from the patent. It can be used on creatures you've already captured, which is also not a breach of the patent, as you've already 'caught' said creature. The creatures you can ride on is irrelevant as there are different requirements and mechanics to riding on creatures in Ark than in Pokemon. (Playing the game to unlock a feature or content is not a patent, otherwise all games would be in trouble.) As Ark is also an open world survival game with base building and capturing creatures, they'd sooner be able to kick up problems with Palworld than Pokemon, Niantic, Gamefreak or whatever co-company is sueing for patent infringements, and without even notifying what the infringement was. How are they supposed to fix it without being told what the problem is? The investigation time it would take to compare all of their patents against all of Pokemons mechanics would take easily take months, if not over a year for an indie company full time, along with maintaining and updating the game. Sounds like Nintendo attempting a hostile take-over, strong arming or something similiar. At least Ark had the decency to leave the patent(s) alone like it's predecessors and allow for creative expansion. Most open world survival genre companies are chill like that. Major W there imo. It sounds like an American IRS moment where they know exactly how much you owe, won't tell you that number, and will come down on you like hellfire if you get it wrong.

[@InitialPC]

@@JackWyman the patent says nothing about the shape of the object, only that it is an object, also cryos are thrown and not placed, and why would "youve already caught the creature" make a difference? neither ip allows you to catch and release wild untamed creatures onto the field

[@sensha5470]

​@epmcgee pocketpair is (is it 3 or 4?) guys that got lucky AF. They may have the monetary resources but not the infrastructure or knowhow. And burning those monetary resources is Nintendo's goal.

[@JackWyman]

@@InitialPC Thank you for clarifying details regarding the patent and cryopods. The difference between Arks' cryo pods and pokeballs would be the state of ownership of the captured target before and after catch. As Ark allows catches of owned creatures before catch and pokemon doesn't. If the patent is thowing an object to cause an interaction with an entity or other object, wouldn't that be too broad and cause way too many issues with other ips accross multiple genres? Fishing lines, nets, ropes and other thrown weapons off the top of my head. In regards to releasing to the field, Ark does allow this and the information is kept to the world until the creature is slain or forcefully despawned (learnt that one the hard way with a spinosaurus that immediately turned on me). Pokemon does not retain information after release to the wild. Pocketpal may have benefitted from seeking permission to use said patents, and as an indie company at the time of creation and launch, I doubt they would've known that the mechanic was patented or if they even infringed upon it, or who to seek permission from in case of infringement. Pocketpal may not have known about the infringement, but nintendo decided to wait until several months after release, or a year after the mechanic was shown to the public to say 'You copied our mechanics! See you in court.' Without explaining the infringement or sending a cease and desist regarding the matter before Palworld went live. A worldwide sensation known as Pokemon with guns, surely there is no way Pokemon studios didn't know about it before release right? Feigning ignorance this long afterwards is too obnoxious. Feels like the Pokemon studios finally found something that sticks and are trying to strong arm a potential competitor into the ground because they made a better game, in a different genre no less. If the pokemon studios win this, so many patent copies are going to go to court and the gaming industry will almost certainly die on the spot. As we'll only ever see games every 20 years after the patents expire. Maybe AAA studios will be able to finish games on time this way?

[@michaelhanson5773]

@epmcgee how big do you need to be to not be an indie company? They have, according to bloomberg, 55 total employees and are no where close to being a full AAA or even AA size developer studio.

[@xknightmare013]

I want to Patton paid for power content and loot boxes so we can’t have them in our games for the next 20 years

[@exsistance123]

Nintendo: uses idea of capturing powerful creatures from digimon Palworld: Makes it's own unique spin on poket monsters Nintendo: THEY STOLE OUR IDEA SOMEONE STOP THEM

[@aaronburr956]

Ive heard that pokemon actually came out a little bit before digimon, but that it did copy a lot of things from dragon quest

[@AyantanoAzem]

@@aaronburr956 i was about to say dragon quest yeah. pokemon and digimon happened to be a coincidence since they were released close to each other.

[@HippaDip]

I'm fairly certain that Pokemon was out a few years before Digimon. Not condoning Nintendo, but just saying.

[@Guarrow]

They didn't sue for copyright because they know they can't. They're literally just patent trolling, it's proof that they're seething whenever Palworld is mentioned, they're mad that they can't do anything about it. That's .... actually dangerous. Back when most people were playing arcades, patents were used as a way to protect gaming mechanics from external bad actors. For example, Namco patented the high score end screen, they were the first to do that and they patented it. But of course, you did see many other games that had that same screen : that's because the point was to protect it from any company that is NOT a gaming company, who could just get in, patent the mechanic first and then say « alright, now y'all pay if you want to use it » Basic stuff, like ADS in FPS games (how the recoil is controlled, how the FOV changes, the movement speed etc etc ...), or even skill trees, non-linear progression just like that, are all patented. Heck, the menu screen is probably patented too. But they're just doing it to protect the industry from bad actors, and there's kind of a hidden rule to not use it against each other. Simply because if you break my patent, who cares, I might have used one of yours or might do in the future. So Nintendo actually using such a tactic is ... kinda scary ? It's literally just an attempt at extortion or to pose a threat. They're saying to Pocket Pair « mind your business », there's no way it's actually good for the industry. Not for the developers, not for the consumers, not for anyone but Nintendo.

[@davidtippy7976]

It's not even good for Nintendo.

[@lunasakara7306]

Honestly, I'm considering suing Nintendo for tortious interference. I bought Palworld, I want more Palworld content, Nintendo is intentionally damaging the relationship all owners of Palworld have with it's developer. Fuck it, if they can make up bullshit and sue, so can we.

[@Myterac]

Nintendo is just trying to run their competition under with lawsuits because they know that their monopoly on this genre could be threatened. It's a shame because the old Pokemon game structure is so outdated and could use a modern day gaming upgrade.

[@phantombigboss8429]

MS and Sony already made deals with Palworld. Nintendo is going to be in a world of pain. They lost their chance and they are seething.

[@Whitepawprint]

​@@lunasakara7306"making up bullshit" being... enforcing their specific patent, that is legally their right to defend. Gotcha 🤷‍♂️ Good luck suing Nintendo for doing their job though

[@bluetoad6848]

What really sucks is now Pocketpair has to stop working on their updates for Palworld and now waste their time and money fighting this stupid crap. And Nintendo likely know, so even if they can't win in court, they can still "win" by wasting Pocketpair's funds. Nintendo is truly working towards earning the "worst company ever" reward.

[@Dvinyard69]

It's okay, AI will help them.....

[@lunasakara7306]

Honestly, let's sue Nintendo for for tortiously interfering with our business relationship with pocketpare. Fuck 'em, they want to play this game, we should make them answer to us too...

[@mpo48]

they could just have a backbone and ignore nintendo

[@Xahnel]

​@@mpo48 that's an amazing way to get a summary judgement served against you.

[@freelancerthe2561]

in a time when competition for that title has never been more heated.

[@Cas_Vael]

Spot on with the Nemesis System. More games need that mechanic. The first time I played Shadow of Mordor I had a task to take out some peon and ended up having to run from a random afterward because a patrol jumped me. A few missions later I identified that random as a new low-level officer; now sporting an armored jacket since he survived my slashes while creating distance earlier. Nailed him with an arrow to the dome. A few missions later he ambushes me with a helmet that made him immune to head-shots. I took his arm in the engagement and spit on his body. A few missions later again, I spot him next to my latest target....weapon for an arm, immune to back-hits, immune to headshots. Dude was becoming an un-dying powerhouse that I was running out of kill options on. This just kept happening. Finally I managed to take off his whole head. Walked away feeling super satisfied, like I had truly earned a victory, thinking "Come back from that." Head hunting became my signature style at that point.

[@Retrofun69]

IMAGINE if Carmak and Romero had patented "First person shooting". I hate these stupid laws.

[@guitboxgeek]

Just imagine if they did something even worse, like restrict half the population's ability to get healthcare.

[@lagrangewei]

it might be better for the world actually... i am sick of FPS clones... :^]

[@gildarmesh3809]

In all honesty the creators probably could have, which could have required people to sign off to use it in the future. The issue here is not that the game is a rip off of pokemon but more likely of pokemon does not like that you made money on said game and in a way that was very not like pokemon. Hence why they are bringing the hammer of their monetary empire down for anything they can.

[@jsmith3946]

that's not how it works you cant patient game play machines like that capcom tried that years ago with street fighter and lost also Pale must of fuck up big time in order for Nintedo to sue them over this considering all to pokemon clones that are on the switch that didn't get sued also Romero didn't create fps

[@carhidu_8905]

If they did that then Halo and COD wouldn't have been real, see what a little stupid patern can damage the game industry, like it's fucking stupid TO OWN SOMETHING THAT ANYONE COULD USE TO IMPROVE OR BRING ALIVE THEIR GAMES. Just for money

[@LoremIpsum-r5e]

I don't think Nintendo wants to sue PocketPair for fairness or anything like that; they just want to bankrupt PocketPair until they're out of money and the company shuts down or can't recover. This is a dirty business tactic used by many billion dollar companies, especially in Japan. Furthermore, if you're wondering why Nintendo didn't sue over the Pal designs, it's because even if they won, they couldn't kill off Palworld. At most, they would just change the Pal models. But this time, Nintendo is targeting the game's mechanics, which can't be easily changed, what a scummy

[@CostelloDamian]

Honestly - most of the mechanics could be changed. You could scan/virtualize palls instead of capturing them into a ball or use scube instead etc. I am quite surprised PocketPair has not done so pre-emptively. I hope they come back from this stronger than ever and are able to work around this joke of a lawsuit.... Even if it means shutting down Palworld bankrupting the company and releasing new game as a different studio. I would pay another $30 to support this as I am sure many would also.

[@LoremIpsum-r5e]

@@CostelloDamian i agree with you, but i thought another way that Nintendo dont want win this lawsuit easily they will buy time to bankrupt PocketPair, they dont aim for win or lose in the end

[@CostelloDamian]

@@LoremIpsum-r5e I think pocket pair played it pretty well. They have earned a lot of money the game was a massive success. Not much content came out really. I have a feeling they knew it was coming and are ready for it. Thinking about it now. If the game wasn't being described as Pokemon with guns it wouldn't attract such sales. If they play it smart the might even gain from it.

[@LoremIpsum-r5e]

@@CostelloDamian sony got their back, i hope this dirty Nintendo lawsuit will be doomed and this example makes gaming industry out of their hands

[@CostelloDamian]

@@LoremIpsum-r5e you mean Microsoft?

[@Larry.R]

We need a loading screen that reads: "I'm going to be a while, go take a piss or a shit if you have to."

[@JDReC100]

lol thats great

[@NuchiAsaki]

Irrelevant, but one of the Viewtiful Joe pause screens asks if you're taking a #1 or #2.

[@yankeered5625]

Gunna patent that 🤣

[@indigowulf]

Heck, Minecraft loading screens has all kinds of quirky sayings. Wonder who's gonna dare take on Microsoft over it?

[@NuchiAsaki]

@@indigowulf Is this a bedrock thing? Proper Minecraft doesn't have anything like that on the loading screens.

[@420DealsClub]

There needs to be a social media movement to BOYCOTT NINTENDO

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

At least the “Nemesis” system is pretty specific. The fact Nintendo has a patent over THROWING A BALL to capture a creature…its way to vague. A lot of them are way tooo vague.

[@AnarchySystem]

Ultraman did it first, in fact, the creator of Pokemon, Satoshi Tajiri, has stated he based the pokeballs from Ultraman

[@WillieDangerously]

As he said the specific patents in question are written in much greater detail than he describes. You're still valid in saying it's silly but there is more to it.

[@Ready_Set_Boom]

Lawyers be like they call it a “ball” but we call it a “sphere”.

[@miki_tellurium8413]

The patent in question is incredibly detailed if you go read it, it's not just the ball throwing but describe the entire game system of Legends Arceus including how boss fight work with that system

[@ethanfreeman1106]

@@WillieDangerously nonsense spoken with great details is still nonsense.

[@dundde3982]

So Nintendo not only goes against their fans wishes, ignore the ideas they share, but goes onto outright patenting features that prevent people to show their creativity and love for their games. Let alone forbid the idea of EVER letting anyone inspire their next work by making it completely redundant or against copyright or patent laws. I know this is not just Nintendo doing this, but it’s disappointing that we went from them having a game like smash bros and the moment it’s gone it moved onto even more of this. A game of keep away from the creative minds of those who are inspired by them.

[@jasonkay9345]

its not just nintendo THIS TIME, but they are WAY too lawsuit happy anymore.

[@matthewbullion7935]

When Palworld first came out there were a bunch of Pokemon fans saying Nintendo should sue

[@Trainrot]

You do know that Nintendo can't listen to fans ideas because of patent reasons too. Like lets say I send Nintendo a letter going 'Hey, y'all should make the gen 10 mechanic the 'Burst' mechanic from Pokemon ReBurst' they open the letter, they see that oh look, they were already doing that, Gen 10 trailer is released 2 months later showing the burst- but look, now I can sue them because I have evidence *I* thought of it being the Gen 10 mechanic. Like iirc, Double Fine talked about that about why fans shouldn't send in game ideas and stuff.

[@ewfse364u35jh]

@@matthewbullion7935 You can't sue someone that is starting and have no money. The lawsuit is not about denying someone using patent like all the coments are implying and sue into oblivion, but forcing to pay for it. And there is no better time to sue someone than when they are profiting(and stealing). PS It must be hard to see world black and white and assume that scummy Palworld creators are the light of this universe - heroes of our time... playing strings of so many morons, that with their braincell in unison combined are still making up brains of some stupid being.

[@kyle2455]

Keep in mind, the primary market that pokemon cares for, is with them for this lawsuit (japan). If anything its because of how similar some mons look, even though that has nothing to do with the lawsuit details. Probably gave a drive in the background though.

[@the37ase]

I remember Nintendo even tried to patent FPS and TPS Controller mechanic. So basically even if you implement for example character walking, you gotta pay Nintendo. Truely a gem of the Video Game Industry

[@Techigai]

Oh damn. I was just joking when I said that somewhere else. Didn't know they tried that. Truly a polished turd.

[@Inaluogh]

Are you forgetting that patented the DPAD? Sony did just fine, even perfectly at times but Xbox couldn't make a good dpad of their own to save their lives.

[@endo77x7]

The more patents on game mechanics, the bleaker, and blander our future as gamers becomes. I think that we all need to do something about this patenting devolution. It's going to literally kill gaming... It's already causing massive damage to the industry.

[@westonflame9702]

This entire situation is reminding me of ‘The Longest Yard’ flooded training field scene. “You know why they did this? They’re. Scared.”

[@Nempo13]

@CCCx3-i7v Legit, absolutely no patent should ever be viable for "systems". If you make it, someone else can make it too. Boohoo. Do better and you don't have to worry about someone else stealing your thunder.

[@user-tm8jt2py3d]

they're really not though, Pokemon is incredibly lucrative and recognizable. They don't change because you all keep buying their shit, unchanged, for decades. They are protecting their IP from being associated with low-tier ripoffs with AKs and cannibalisms.

[@aaronburr956]

​@@user-tm8jt2py3d Sure buddy. There is no such thing as 'too big to fail'. Just because palworld and pocket pair arent as big as pokemon and nintendo doesnt mean that nintendo is safe. Its size does not help it. Palworld showed that a good pokemon-like game could exist, yet we are still getting bug filled crap on old hardware. At least in the US, nintendo definitely lost points in the court of public opinion because of palworld.

[@ugrena7419]

As much as I like Palworld and the team behind it, I seriously doubt they are even a speck on Nintendo's radar. This seems more like something they're doing to try to prevent any future games/companies from becoming more successful than they are. There is clearly a gap in the market that the pokemon games aren't really filling anymore. We can argue that it's because Gamefreak is lazy, or greedy, or whatever - but there is clearly something missing, and Palworld got close to filling that gap for a lot of people.

[@LilyMaeBlossom]

@@user-tm8jt2py3d Since when did Scarlet and Violet have AKs? I might have to get back into that game.

[@animegx45]

The other day, I learned Nintendo finished filing out a patent a few weeks ago. And a few days ago, this lawsuit comes to light.

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

Yep. And the patent application was filed on July 30th, the same month Pocket Pal partnered up with Sony and Aniplex. The patent also features gameplay that isn't even in Pokemon games. This was a calculated move, and contrary to what people are thinking, Nintendo had no intention of going after Palworld until it became a legitimate threat with corporate backing from two massive allies. They weren't 'ensuring they had a guaranteed win' - if anything, they're belting forward at a pace that is a bit too hasty compared to how Nintendo usually operates.

[@Demonsouls1993]

@@FlamingNinjaBoi pocketpair didnt partner with anybody what the fuck are you smoking

[@LordRazer3]

Not relevant to the lawsuit. What ever patent this is related to can't be used in court not matter what they say because that patent didn't exist before palworld was being created or released so it wasn't under any form of protection. If anything trying to due so could void said patent if the creation is seen at make specifically made to target another. It would be like me suing the guy on youtube for my smelting technique for pouring molten aluminum into an ant hill using a patent I made 4 weeks ago. If anything is related it would be the fact that they might have seen something in there folder that made them go "oh we have a patent for that. Finally we can sue the competition!"

[@SargentD4]

They’re trying to patent sleeping in a video game 😂 fk Nintendo. All my homies hate Nintendo

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

@@LordRazer3 People have done it before. They got in trouble for it more often than not, but they've done it.

[@skeletonyouth616]

why pokemon acting like they didnt rip off dragon quest monsters 😂😂😂

[@AnimeXFever54]

Or Shin Megami Tensei lol

[@DjPrimeVideos]

​@@AnimeXFever54because smooth brain...things can be based on the same thing and look different

[@Jeremy9697]

​@DJPrimeAmvs same reason why they aren't suing over things looking like pokemon...

[@AnimeXFever54]

@@DjPrimeVideos what

[@avengeddecay2360]

@@DjPrimeVideosif you see the differences I can tell you they are very similar they literally copied them and just changed them slightly. They know they can’t get away with a lawsuit that they are also guilty of doing themselves

[@RacerXJG]

Imagine if way back when video games started being made a patent was made so that the act of jumping was nabbed by a company. Games would have been so different today.

[@fritt_wastaken]

Ah, the good old legal system working as intended as usual. And it IS working as intended, because it's meant to be abused by rich people, otherwise such ridiculous laws wouldn't exist.

[@donovanfaust3227]

You really could have just left it at the first sentence but then you had you had to write another sentence explaining the joke everyone already understood. No one was going to point out "um, actually that's not how it's intended to work", we already know this about the legal system.

[@Nempo13]

@@donovanfaust3227 You would be absolutely shocked at the number of people that believe the legal system is there to help people.

[@eversystemm]

@@donovanfaust3227No no, they did good dw 😅

[@Shadowclaw25]

Well to be Truthfull: This was invented so u cant steal Ideas that Companys needed to work 10-30years for and invest Billions/Millions and have then use it. So if that could not be Protected, nobody would invent anymore. So no its not used as intented. But letting that happen shows again the 99,99999% Corruption that is there and that nobody is willing to use Healthy-Mental-Mind over Greed/Fear. Which is a common issue Worldwide, that wont stop and will most likely kill humanity in the end. For the one idiot that would now write: Patents wont kill: Its the Greed/Fear that does !

[@stopthecap2644]

The mere fact you could own a patent on throwing a ball and catching something… is completely fkin ridiculous

[@VashTown]

That's pretty quintessentially pokemon, don't you think?

[@Tortuga629]

@@VashTown No. Pokemon are quintessentially pokemon. The game is not called "Throwing balls at monsters" The method of capture/storage is irrelevant.

[@DageLV]

no. Youre wrong. its not as simple as that. Patents must be very in depth describing on how things are done, they do not cover general ideas, only specific execution of that idea.

[@VashTown]

@@Tortuga629 What is 'Pokemon' a contraction for?

[@Tortuga629]

@@VashTown Pocket monster. Again, the method of capture/storage is irrelevant.

[@Chasm9]

Patents stifle natural technological innovation and progress of the whole human species, everywhere, not just in gaming. That's why I love people who said no to money when they had a chance of becoming zillionaires. Like Jonas Salk, who didn't patent his polio vaccine, and on the question why, he responded with "Can you patent the Sun?"

[@zephyrias]

Someone in another comment saud the same with the guy who invented insulin, in which this medicine is to be free for those who very lives need it. Listen once greed sets in… corps and pharmaceutical companies can do whatever. These inventors only made these medical advancements as a way for people to live a healthier life. They weren’t in it for the money. They did to save lives. You can’t put price of life.

[@kylemclain5495]

Love pokemon, but i will never give Nintendo another dollar. Abhorrently greedy company.

[@FringeWizard2]

The throwing a ball thing means they will sue Ark Ascended too then.

[@InsanityIsOurNature]

Wonder if this is why ark didn’t have a sleep wellness system. It’s all health based

[@yogi_gs]

​​@@InsanityIsOurNaturesleep wellnes is from game pokemon sleep.

[@indigowulf]

Good. Snail Games needs to be held accountable for SOMETHING, because they sure aren't being accountable to their customers.

[@sep.42]

It's technically different, so I don't think it infringes. Plus main patent in this suit was filed in 2021. Arks had cryopods since 2018

[@jamalyeboah4322]

@@sep.42pocketpair released craftopia in 2020, before the patent in 2021, and craftopia had the same sphere capture mechanic as palworld, but here they are getting sued for something they made first

[@fyrelord7826]

Oh no, if they're found "not guilty" of patent infringement, I'd counter-sue to make Nintendo pay the legal fee's.

[@IfonlyIwassmaller]

Why hasn’t Nintendo sued the like 5,782 mobile games that use their Pokémon???

[@Leffrey]

Using the pokemon themselves is copyright infringement, and they notoriously do crack down them. Especially the earnest heartfelt projects by fans of the franchise

[@happycompy]

​@@Leffreyyeah. Their relentless destruction of fan projects is the most disgusting thing about Nintendo. They've ruined people's lives for making fan projects. FAN PROJECTS. Thats like a music band suing its die hard fans for making merch about them.

[@brandarth574]

I just bought a couple Switches few months ago thinking hey maybe I'll get back into Nintendo. NOPE!!! I'll be selling if not giving those machines away tomorrow, this is stupid as all hell

[@Lily-cx1vo]

Patents on game mechanics are gross. It’s been proven if the patent something no ones gonna buy it, they’re not gonna make money off it, and if their game is bad besides that one mechanic, it’s gonna fail anyway so it’s not like restricting the competition is gonna help them in any way either. So greedy.

[@tymonsulimastalman1727]

It's not about anyone buying them. They want to have a monopoly. Looking at how big Pokemon franchise is, people will still buy their games and gadgets.

[@karakuri3035]

​@@tymonsulimastalman1727 the problem is that nintendo has such a monopoly over pokemon and other Nintendo games because of these patents. No devs dares to make a game even remotely similair to a nintedo game because they would get "economicaly killed" after a long series of lawsuit. Just like how nintendo and his fanboys wanted to kill genshin for ridiculous reasos.

[@BlahBlahBlahBlah69]

Pocketpair made the aiming and catching and throwing it back out mechanic first with craftopia which came out in 2020. Legends came out in 2022. I will continue to share this everywhere until others know this information. They are sueing over a mechanic they didnt make.

[@masterlinktm]

Bad News friend. Patents do not care who thought of the idea first. Only who files.

[@BlahBlahBlahBlah69]

​@@masterlinktm pocketpair already had palworld in development before the patent. Suing over a mechanic they took from pocketpair is pathetic

[@masterlinktm]

@@BlahBlahBlahBlah69 okay... law doesn't care. you can say whatever you want about and be as angry as you want. law doesn't care.

[@BlahBlahBlahBlah69]

​​@@masterlinktm it is fact that craftopia made by pocketpair made these mechanics first they released craftopia in 2020. Nintendo patented it in 2021 for arceus which came out 2022. They are suing over a mechanic they stole claim as theirs. All indie developers should worry if they make a cool mechanic some big company will steal it call it theirs and sue. You can't share cool mechanics now so the gaming industry will become bland, no new innovation because someone might patent it and take it from you. You can hate palworld that's fine but use your brain and see this is bad

[@masterlinktm]

@@BlahBlahBlahBlah69 I love Palworld. I hope it either crushes Pokémon into the dust or forces Pokémon to actually innovate for once. So much missing potential. Also, while "facts don't care about your feelings" is a very very true statement, the opposite is equally true. Feelings do not care about facts. Like your feelings caring about the operations of patent law. Because, the only thing patent law cares about is who submitted the paperwork first. You can whine and moan about who did what first all you want. Paperwork in the patent office is the only thing that matters.

[@juniorkyle8123]

this lawsuit should be a WAY bigger story than it currently is and should piss off and/or terrify any developer out there, both indie and fanmade. the entire genre of monster catcher/tamer is about to go extinct if nintendo is given so much as an inch. imagine if capcom patented all 2d fighters, or if activision patented all FPS and hero shooters. thats basically what nintendo is doing

[@zephyrias]

This is a double barrel shotgun playing russian roulette, and its frightening that an entire genre of games will be under scrutiny for being similar to pokemon. When it wasnt the first nor the last to do this. Sure made it mainstream, not the first

[@Nempo13]

@@zephyrias They didn't even make it to mainstream first. Digimon was far bigger in Japan. Did the whole monster catching thing, leveling, evolving. Everything that makes pokemon a thing was in Digimon first at one point. AND it was more popular in Japan for the longest time. Only reason it didn't hold it is Nintendo legit muscling out all competition.

[@stevencraeynest7729]

@@Nempo13 what? Digimon wasn't first, nor bigger than pokemon, I don't know what you're on about

[@delresearch5416]

In the 80s they tried to sue over karate games.

[@indigowulf]

everyone get copies of palworld downloaded to as many devices as you can. It's gonna be life flappy birds- gets wrecked by a lawsuit and becomes super valuable!

[@steakdriven]

Game mechanics patents should be illegal.

[@PurpleDazed81]

Nintendo got all butt hurt because they couldn't nail them on the copyright aspect that they have to make up stupid reasons to hate on this game.

[@bushwickerman]

the way i see it, gatekeeping game creativity is just oppression. small studios should be allowed to recreate or IMPOVE on old concepts... but people dont want to look bad.

[@Korodarn]

It is exactly what you think it is. You're correct. People can't imagine how much IP is robbing all of us. And it's not just patent. To the degree things like Gacha have some form of real value to people, copyright prevents making those games better by simply letting people take the useful assets and put them into something that isn't monetized in an evil (yes, getting kids into gambling and using multiple currencies to confuse people about value is evil) fashion. Let people make moral decisions about how to support people who produce what they value, but IP is not the only way to do it. Crowdfunding works, and it can be extended to support all manner of productions as proven by things like Star Citizen which have made hundreds of millions of dollars and many people still (understandably to some degree) think is a scam. It is unnecessary to have the state privilege grants. Deal with fraud as fraud. That's all we need.

[@Huskerfanman-g9e]

This is when i wish people would just turn on nintendo. Gamers need to unite against this kind of crap. It stifles the entire industry

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Why does the only good AAA company have facist copyright and patent rules

[@Huskerfanman-g9e]

@@Cubeytheawesome the almighty dollar

[@Whitepawprint]

​@@CubeytheawesomeI'm pretty sure every large game company has loads of similar patents. Most indies just make sure to not infringe on them when publishing a game HEAVILY INSPIRED by a major IP

[@Shinyolo]

Because they make good games. I hate and love Nintendo, it's weird but that's how it is lol

[@MobileDecay]

That won't happen.

[@MrJ747]

Palworld is something new and exciting, nintedo hasn't done anything new (exception of pokemon arceus) but its just open world pokemon that runs poorly since its on the switch. Palworld is something actually exciting

[@theravenousrabbit3671]

This is clear patent trolling and lawfare. Nintendo are big mad they didn't think of this first.

[@sethwood1676]

@@Bickiiification Outside of the ball feature no they didn't. Dragon quest and shin megami tensie are others that have done it way before nintendo did. No with a ball maybe I'm not super familiar with all of game history in games that feature monster catching.

[@Levariatine]

@@Bickiiification nope, they did not

[@AmazedBunion]

Pokemon refined those mechanics to something that would be the most popular game series of all time. Those other games that did it before couldn't get the job done because they were simply worse games with worse versions of the mechanics.

[@sethwood1676]

@@AmazedBunion No they weren't worse games lmao. A lot of games they were secondary mechanics doesn't mean they were worse.

[@mastershadow3894]

​@@Bickiiificationgo read a little, they didn't at all. I get your frustrations on people being wrong but in this case your wrong as way older games have already done that mechanic which the comments in this reply had already mentioned

[@Rubbe87]

Game mechanics should not be copyrighted.

[@MrReaperHand]

They can't be copyrighted. This video, as stated, is about patents. That is entirely different. However, the discussion is VERY nuanced and this video is not as clear as it should. Patents ONLY cover what is exactly in the patent. Even if a mechanic or thing is surface level similar, if it does not mechanically actually follow the patent it does not infringe on the patent. However, it is not copyright. Look at the WorC OGL scandal. They tried to copyright game mechanics and "own" what 3rd party create.

[@TheMelnTeam]

@@MrReaperHand There has to be a similarity threshold, otherwise patents on mechanics would be unenforceable just with things like "we used a different engine" or "this is literally different code, look at them side by side" which would serve as absolute defenses. Maybe that's how it should be though. When someone patents a jet engine, they get a patent for that exact design. Not the entire process of any conceptual jet engine.

[@MrReaperHand]

@@TheMelnTeam it is sorta like that, but more vague. Hard to get into what I know in comments.

[@bluelightstudios6191]

they arn't supposed to be, however with enough money, you can do whatever you want

[@PaulDoyle-jq2ck]

it should we dont fuse to be in fortnite or any xbox games do we

[@SpikesOmega]

I just want a judge to go, "This is the most frivolous BS lawsuit I have ever seen. CASE DISMISSED!"

[@Rat_Fบcker]

except it's japanese legal system they once held a man waiting for his trial to prove his innocent and he die from his cancer because they refuse to let him get a treatmenthe need

[@ButrzV2]

Friendly reminder that this is going on instead of Pokemon doing anything to improve gameplay

[@Thagyr]

I wonder if any company has tried to patent 'Patting a digital character representation of an animal in a 3D space'. A patting patent.

[@Silath01]

That’s not a bad idea and a good way to troll nintendo

[@Bickiiification]

I wonder if you have any idea how patent laws work, or did You even actually listen to the video here....

[@DerMindconstructor]

Uhm ... Me: "Is there a patent for 'letting a player fight against a creature'?" Patent office: "Uhm. No. But 2.634 requested patents based on this description from nintendo since ... last week." Me: "And ... did they get patented?" Patent office: "No. But ... oh right now theres another request for this. wait ... *STAMP* DENY ..." Me. "What about this gamemechanic-patterns, wich Nintendo patented. How this happened?" Patent office. "We had a trainee at this time ..."

[@Kaylakaze]

Or one for putting a digital creature in a pen. Then it's a penning patent.

[@AWanderingTressym]

I see what you did there. I'd give you a pat on the back, but ...

[@BlueHells]

Hope Sony or Microsoft backs Pocketpair, as having Palworld on theirs consoles is a big plus.

[@NuchiAsaki]

If I heard correctly, part of their deal with Sony was to create an anime based on Palworld. Maybe Sony will back them because that would be big profits.

[@kwanng8407]

​@@NuchiAsaki And that could be one of the many reasons Nintendo filed the lawsuit now. Minic Pokemon to make a ton of money for yourself? Ok. Minic Pokemon and hook up with Sony/Microsoft so they can make a ton of money? You are dead.

[@BhatiHmmFishGuy]

If they get sued and lose money I’d be more than happy to pay for Palworld and any DLCs

[@battlecruiserna]

when did nintendo become a black company?

[@exiledred77]

imagine if FIFA could sue the NBA because of the similarities between soccer and basketball. "we have patents on using a spherical ball, nets on the goal, a centre circle, substitutions and team based play."

[@derekhandson351]

Alright that's hilarious

[@polarbear3262]

Not only that we would have a lot more fun open world games with nemesis system but in that case WB would benefit from it too because other devs would develop the system, adding new features, new ideas and when WB would decide to use it once again in their game they could choose either to go back to the roots and develop their own thing or using all the previous data and ideas to make their new game even better. This way by the time the system will be free to use it will be insignificant due to someone else developing something better, technology moving forward, trends changing etc. So in reality we will end up with 2 maybe 3 games with that system in all these years. Edit: Also imagine if back in the days games like Wolfenstein, Doom, feaking Moon Lander patented their shit how much behind would gaming industry be today.

[@mightza3781]

Most games make the majority of their sales within the first year; newer games with a nemesis system wouldn't have impacted WB sales at all and it's not like they are releasing new games with that system that has to compete with newer games with that system. No one makes money and games are arbitrarlily prevented from being as good as they could be.

[@jakeforgey5378]

From what I remember, Warner Brothers sounded like they wanted to have others rent the mechanic BUT due to a legalese issue (in other words, phrasing) they needed to sign off in FIVE locations on the okaying slip and if one didn't match EVERY part of the stroke of the pen it would be instant lawsuits...

[@jsnap1]

Its Nintendo being Nintendo again. Its depressing

[@Cubeytheawesome]

They were supposed to be the good AAA company, not be a piece of shit like Warner bros!

[@LifenowafterOH]

@@Cubeytheawesome AAA company is a synonym for POS.

[@Shinyolo]

Sue them ! Who sir ? The internet !! You can't sue the entire internet sir ... Ohhhh .... but I want to :(

[@PaulDoyle-jq2ck]

like microsoft and sony doesnt do this shit they do

[@endo77x7]

At least allow a patent to be purchased.

[@nilpointfive]

I’ll throw a cube then, this is so petty. They could have made something to compete, but I guess Nintendos lawyers must always be busy.

[@shaggyplays5210]

Corps don't want competition they want total control and dominance that is why these lawsuits happen and why patents and copyright last so long.

[@JJ-dm3lt]

Then why did Palworld decide to copy every aspect of encountering the enemies from Nintendo? If throwing a cube is fine? Exactly. PC gamers can keep being mad that they will never get a pokemon game and the one they spent money on will not be serviceable within a month or two

[@infernus6018]

​@@JJ-dm3ltFirst of all don't dick suck Nintendo they won't listen to your cry or tickle your balls. Second pc gamers can play every single Pokemon game ever created and lastly palworld is still serviceable after all this time plus they implemented huge updates. Also if palworld copied every aspect of encountering and capturing enemies the pokemon copied as well from Shin megami tensei. Relax your tits and stop sucking companies that give you the same fucking game every year but just reskined enough

[@1020justukas]

@@JJ-dm3lt Clean the brown off your nose, little man.

[@Bornofanidlemind]

⁠@@JJ-dm3lt because pokemon didn’t have a patent on throwing balls to catch monsters until a few months ago, so it was totally legal for them to use spheres to catch monsters in Palworld up until then.

[@customizablemilk353]

regarding the problem of the situation around the nemesis system: there should be a regulation that you as the patent owner should be obliged to release games with this patented mechanic every 5 years to be allowed to uphold the patent so this situation of them just uselessly blocking the creative progress would be prevented.

[@Bickiiification]

You have absolutely no idea how many things are patented in real world and how patent owners dont do ANYTHING with these patents whatsoever... Also while you do have some sort of idea with patent Holder being obliged to make a game, you clearly dont know how long games are made on average these days...

[@aegisxor]

@@Bickiiification You're so close to getting it!

[@absolarix]

@@Bickiiification For example, force feedback flight sticks haven't been a thing because a company hold the patent for them, and hardly any flight stick peripheral companies wanted to licence the patent for it. The only FFB sticks that did exist were really old. That patent recently expired, and now many simulation game peripheral companies are in the process of making and releasing FFB sticks.

[@Bogglemanify]

"It's my IP to sit on and do nothing with!"

[@1IGG]

Eh, wouldn't change anything. Look at movies. Regularly terrible movies get released just so companies don't lose their IP.

[@darkmugetsu6572]

Warframe had to have a super dumbed down Nemesis system because of that fucking patent to avoid simularities in how they worked and avoid breaching that stupid patent

[@NuchiAsaki]

I remember them talking about how great it could have been. It makes me sad.

[@Rat_Fบcker]

oh I thought they just made it that way so it's more convenient to grind

[@unnecessarycensorpolice]

Boycott Nintendo

[@jaythephoenix]

Me: rolling a snowball up larger for a snowman. Katamari: Gonna have to ask you to stop that.

[@Kevin00405]

I remember Nintendo going after Pokémon Essentials. The foundation for making your own Pokémon game. True, it's using their assets, but it was just for tinkering. The games weren't sold. It got people into programming, resulting in games with features the fans have been begging for. Instead of encouraging that and perhaps employing these talented people, they shut it all down... much like how they are now going after Palworld. It's sad, but very clear that capitalism is the only driving force behind that company.

[@TinchoX]

It just feels like Nintendo is being a petty and sore loser at this point...

[@Cubeytheawesome]

It’s a shame because unlike Sony and Microsoft, they actually have good games, but apparently no company is nice anymore

[@Jeremy9697]

Spre loser? They have lost at nothing though lol palwaorld is already dead

[@MrMittenshasatophat]

These ecelebs yelling at Nintendo will shut up the second a new console is announced. This is just eceleb drama noise.

[@JDReC100]

​@Jeremy9697 palworls has had concurrent player numbers in the the 5 digits for months. How is that dead?

[@krisv1038]

​@@Jeremy9697there's 17,000 just in steam alone right now lmao. They spanked pokemon and innovated more in their first try than pokemon did in 10 years

[@karikoo3105]

what im more concerned about is that if nintendo does this and it gets enough publicity other companies are gonna do that too and at that point the gaming marked will be ruled by whoever has the most money making the likes od d(EA)th and Ubisoft the norm and once that happens they dont have to compete with each other and make good games anymore

[@bonehead1st]

I agree but Nintendo doesn’t care about the consumer getting good games they only care about making more money and can’t stand the fact that Palworld is better than any Pokémon game they put out in the last 10+ years

[@iselwyr5411]

Palworld is not a good game lol its 4 games mashed together in a trenchcoat

[@aaronburr956]

​@@iselwyr5411And yet, it is more enjoyable than pokemon games.

[@jakeforgey5378]

@@iselwyr5411 And yet compared to Pokemon Games (video not card) Palworld didn't have to Cannibalize and REPRODUCE a dumbed down version of a previous title, granted the BD-SP remakes were decent-ish but I could barely finish them, had to force myself to...

[@iselwyr5411]

@jakeforgey5378 no they just mashed pokemon together with monster hunter, botw, and sone random shooter. It was advertised as 'pokemon w/guns' its abysmally lazy and not transformative

[@aaronburr956]

@@iselwyr5411 Stay mad

[@RamzaBehoulve]

You shouldn't be able to repatent something that's been in public domain for nearly 30 years. Even pharmaceutical companies have to change something meaningful to repayment the same drug.

[@AmazedBunion]

It's based on legends arceeus which came out in 2021.

[@AnangRabo]

​@@AmazedBunion And the mechanic never get uses again in scarlet violet.

[@1Raptor85]

@@AmazedBunion the problem is the patent for the capturing is literally just their old patent with "but in an open world", which according to both US and JP patent law doesn't meet the requirements of being patentable. (it's an obvious step that anyone in the industry would do, not an "invention", you're not allowed to re-patent existing expired patents or obvious iterative steps). The problem is the way patents work, they grant them anyways (it's on the person filing the patent to assure the office that they're in the right :/ ) and the only way to get it thrown out as an invalid patent is to take them to court over it, potentially spending millions. It's stupid but the way patents work you can make the most blatent, obviously illegal patent, but as long as you never sue anyone bigger than yourself that will fight it it might as well be valid. The whole system just needs to go away.

[@zapp3484]

You know why they didn't go after other games, because they're not a competition for Pokémon, they sued Palworld because they felt threatened. The only reason they didn't go after Digimon, is it's direction different enough, that it's not a threat to them. or else they will 100% sue. Now, Nintendo trying to own monster capture fighting game so there's no other game would dare try? GTFO Nintendo.

[@vjbd2757]

@@Bickiiification Those game did not sold 15 million copies on Steam and 10 million players on Xbox. "None of these games stole from Nintendo" Dragon Quest and Shin Megami Tensei had monster-catching way before the first Pokemon game. It's quite the opposite.

[@zerase84]

@@Bickiiification wow those names i,ve never even heard of. They exist doesn't simply mean nintendo will sue them. Only Palworld exist a threat as it looks like what pokemon can possibly be in the future.

[@D3adCl0wn]

@@zerase84 Pocketpair also announced Palworld Entertainment, something similar to what The Pokemon Company is. You know, the entity that gives them 80% of their revenue?

[@Dany-rx7rs]

​@@BickiiificationTemTem uses cards, even if they're thrown they spin around the creature and Cassette Beasts a tape records the creature from far.

[@Dany-rx7rs]

Why is no one mentioning Yo-kai watch? They didn't do everything but why is it not mentioned?

[@jumpbootsjamstrang]

I dont see Nintendo going after Ark survival! Ark has cryogenic pods you can store and throw dinos out very similar to the pokeball.

[@xser1ousc0mbatx]

If Nintendo actually had any legal standing palworld would've been shutdown during production. Nintendo didn't think palworld would be competition, but palworld sold to much and now Nintendo is shaking in their boots considering palworld could damage their sales going forward. This is just a cheap attempt by Nintendo to muscle out some competition.

[@Xahnel]

Oh it's worse than that. Palworld's dev tema sat fown with Nintendo's lawyers _explicitly_ to make sure that Palworld wasn't going to violate Nintendo IP. They had Nintendo's lawyers review and sign off on the game. Legal ethics dictate that if the lawyers found objections, they _had_ to raise those objections to protect their client. That they _didn't_ is very bad for their case.

[@Jeremy9697]

You have to be joking. Palworld is already dead. It's not competition. It was fun for the first so many hours... no reply value and no pvp so now it's dead. It didn't have enough depth so it died.

[@Leangreen69]

Pokémon is a multi billion dollar name with a foot in every form of merchandise and media, come back to reality they are not “competition”😂

[@xser1ousc0mbatx]

@@Jeremy9697 almost 20,000 players at any time. Better than some live service games but you can call it dead if that makes you feel better 😂

[@xser1ousc0mbatx]

@@Leangreen69 you skipped over and ignored my entire comment but that very last part. 15 million plus copies sold. I'm sure Nintendo doesn't see palworld as something that could damage they're sales in the future, Nintendo is just suing them months after release because it's fun (sarcasm) 😂

[@cherrycordiaI]

I'm glad you mentioned Nintendo's chokehold on Eternal Darkness' sanity system up until very recently. ED is one of my favorite games ever and I feel like the indie horror market is worse off without the ability to play around with one of the most interesting mechanics in gaming. Several games have had to skirt around similar systems without touching the whole "things get screwy as you lose it" thing. It's ridiculous considering 1. Nintendo did not DEVELOP Eternal Darkness, they published it and 2. The system is basically a video-gamified version of a mechanic from Call of Cthulu, a tabletop game 20 years older than Eternal Darkness. Imagine how immersive and pants-ruining certain titles could have been if not for this patent.

[@awakeandwatching953]

so they basically have a patient on fear induced insanity? thats insane

[@noahziegler3478]

Def earning the NO-Friend-O nick name

[@Bobrob1597]

More often than not, once a patent is filed for a game, the company will do NOTHING with it. They’re only preventing others from using/improving the mechanic.

[@RezaQin]

See Ford's latest patent on your car spying on how you're going, etc.

[@Whitepawprint]

That's a fair criticism, but not really the case with pokemon. They are constantly putting out games, and tend to very consistently use the same core mechanics

[@theimperiumofman102]

⁠@@Whitepawprint and forgetting to polish the rest of the game afterwards.

[@AnangRabo]

​@@Whitepawprint Okey let's se they patent throwing a ball in 3D space to catch monster after arceus and not uses it in scarlet/violet. Other than pokemon let's go pokemon go and arceus non other pokemon uses that feature. Are you sure that pokemon will uses the patent mechanic again not like dynamax, z move or even mega evolution get scrap.

[@MaXxProsTe]

To have a patent on Nemesis.. liko OK "keep it and eventually choke on it, be my guest", but how can ANYONE have a patent on such things like remembering, or achieving anything? That is like Activision having patent on shooting a gun. Total nonsense O_o Like, catching anymals into the tiny ball -OK- but how the hell are they supposed to patent "catching of animals", which is done by mankind since dawn of time? :-D I hope Nintendo looooose hard, because now it still all sounds like lawyers ranting about bruised ego/s.

[@TheChrisLouis]

Imagine everyone doing this just because they don't want competition or to even make a better product? Like the first developer to make a first person shooter just sues everyone who tries to make one because they patented to mechanics of shooting bullets out of a weapon in first person. Nintendo is becoming the absolute worst .

[@Jeremy9697]

Ppl keep saying this but a company can't file for that. Not specific enough. Ypu realize just because you file a patent doesn't mean ypu get it... I'm sure a few tards have tried

[@DakumunDahBat]

@@Jeremy9697 a man patented swinging on a tree swing. So no, I don't care about "needing" to be specific, because so many patents pass through that are so vague it's not even funny.

[@eurosonly]

Imagine?this is literally how companies have always operated. This is nothing new. Can't beat them,buy them out is also another tactic.

[@godw1ll99]

@@Jeremy9697 and yet here we are, with palworld getting sued for nothing more than the genre of gameplay it resides in. it says a lot when the likeness of the "pals" to pokemon comes secondary to the style of gameplay. this means that instead of being able to make changes to the game they are instead trying to eliminate the game altogether as the violations in question are in regards to core gameplay mechanics. core gameplay mechanics are what dictate the genre of gameplay. nintendo has such an extensive list of of core gameplay mechanic patents that it effectively wipes out an entire genre of gameplay and could even be used to go after a game like ark. some of the patents is literally for capturing, caring for and battling with creatures. how is that not a patent against an entire genre of gameplay? lets not be delusional here and just acknowledge the FACT that nintendos intentions are simply to have a monopoly on their cash cow. the fact that there have been plenty of other likewise games that did poorly that nintendo gave a free pass on but is going after pocket pair only AFTER proving to be wildly successful shows this.

[@Jeremy9697]

@@godw1ll99 a monopoly? There are other games dude.... you already failed bud

[@zeehero7280]

Nintendo has no case. Unless they want to be sued for copying Shin Megamei Tensei.

[@CeeC_CeeC]

And Dragon Quest. A lot of Pokémon’s are heavily inspired by DQ.

[@phelancastro4879]

You don’t throw a ball to catch a weakened creature in a 3D field, then throw that ball again to release it under your control, in Megami tensei. Which also means that you can’t release said creatures to then ride them. Encouraging healthy sleeping habits is probably in reference to systems like Pokemon Sleep, so no. Palworld is very clearly trying to copy pokemon, it’s not like (shin megami tensei, dragon quest, digimon, robotrek, tellefang, Robopon, jade cacoon, nino kuni, yokai watch, world of final fantasy, monster hunter stories, monster crown, coromon, and temtem)

[@ADanZLife]

I love Jade Cocoon and the monster capture was similar, but the character played an instrument when they captured. I think this is just stupid. I'm surprised we even have new games if everyone can patent things and prevent others from using it to create a new game.

[@drummergurl99]

@@CeeC_CeeCinspired by, and taking the exact model and changing the color and calling it your own thing are very different. If you look at monster quest vs first gen pokemon. They look different enough that it actually couldn’t be a lawsuit. Whereas a BUNCH of palworld things are just pokemon with inverse/ different colors. It’s completely different lmao.

[@drummergurl99]

@@ADanZLifeit’s not the catch and release that’s the issues, it’s palworld copying and pasting pokemon and changing JUST their colors. That’s copy right infringement. You can’t just change a purple pokemon to black and call it you own (mewtwo vs dark mutant or whatever it was called, which they didn’t release cuz it was obvious infringement) And that’s just ONE example that I remember.

[@shadowmasstitan344]

Nintendo is try to get palworlds code. They stole ("won the rights to") the code from an inde game developer to create Legends Arceus. The Pokemon company is so lazy that they steal code from upcoming developers.😢

[@Rat_Fบcker]

is this real? if they win the case they get a source code of the game too?

[@shadowmasstitan344]

@@Rat_Fบcker yes it's real. If you lose a case that says you used someone else patent. They own the rights to the code you used to make the game. It's scummy.

[@animowany111]

@@Rat_Fบcker If the lawsuit goes to discovery (and it will) they will be able to access the source code to verify whether the patents were infringed

[@Everlucky_Clover]

@@Rat_Fบcker due to a court ruling it is possible that someone (not neccessarily pocketpair or nintendo) may have to comb through the code to prove that the points they are trying to dispute arent copied.......but we all know leaks happen when this goes on or consultants might slip nintendo extra code for a future project.

[@FF3LockeZ]

Many of these devs make more money from patent licenses than from their games.

[@GreatMewtwo]

It is such where now Epic Games just sits back and gets steady coins from licensing out the Unreal Engine. No one really knew them to do an original idea since "Fortnite."

[@Nemesis-pe7mw]

@@GreatMewtwo I'm not particularly pro Epic or anything, but how is having a game engine that you license the same as these patents? Do you have ANY idea what goes into making and maintaining a game engine?

[@GreatMewtwo]

@@Nemesis-pe7mw What I am saying is that you can make a game with all sorts of innovative ideas and not have it sell well, but that is not to say that you cannot turn around and license out the patents that went into making the game. Similar is what happened with Unreal Engine; Unreal was a good game, but the engine was so relatively easy to use that people were willing to buy the engine itself. I came to think about this when I bumped into a "Smash TV" arcade machine and it warned that the game had dozens of patents issued and pending.

[@Crown.A]

Nintendo won’t get another dime from me!

[@Bickiiification]

Ofc they will :) as soon as next game that piques your interest will come out :)

[@omensoffate]

Sure bud 😂

[@Groove_Gamer]

@@Bickiiification Ryujinx and Dolphin cover their last 3 consoles and run games better than Nintendo's own hardware.

[@thatsnotoneofmeatsmanyuses1970]

@@Bickiiification I haven't bought anything from them since SNES, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[@Bickiiification]

@@Groove_Gamer are You dumb, or are You pretending to be dumb? You are comparing an emulator, that runs as good as the hardware its booted on, to a certain set of hardware?

[@UltimateGamerCC]

oh great... Nintendo is now patenting Monster Catching mechanics as theirs... i hope they lose and lose hard, or else Modern Gaming is going to get even worse. and at this rate, many people have just gone into Piracy, rather than deal with the crap that Modern Gaming is shoving on us.

[@-TriP-]

Ah, good ol' Nintendo. Let's not forget they started life as a Yakuza racket and the Japanese are, after all, *_very_* keen on maintaining traditions...

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Finding this out is like realizing a KZbinr you like was a shitty person 😭 Nintendo how could you!

[@-TriP-]

@@Cubeytheawesome lol yeah they don't like talking about that part of their history, but every time they pull a stunt like this I'm reminded of it. /pours a shot for Argonaut Software

[@ShadowByNine]

This is why the whole patent system needs to be removed, for the most part it only favors trolls and shitty corporations like nintendo.

[@ShadowByNine]

Change ball to a rhombus, boom problem solved

[@rodseller9936]

So you're telling me that if I have a monster capturing game with turn play I can get sued by Nintendo even though all of my monsters are original?

[@JDReC100]

depending on the patents Nintendo owns, yes

[@rodseller9936]

@JDReC100 You know Nexomon is doing the same thing. Well, if they want to be like that, bad things are just going to happen to them. They don't have a right to hold people hostage. When I'm in hostage they're trying to have it to where no one has the right to have their own monster capture except Pokemon.

[@Marinealver]

Nintendo sees game that competes with their slop they just threw out for a quick cash grab. Nintendo files a patents on some commonly used mechanics in many games. Nintendo Sues the competition on "Infringement of their Patents".

[@An1m0ssity]

Pretty sure Pokémon isn't "slop" lol, but alright

[@Groove_Gamer]

Room temp IQ nintendo fans will support this just like Capcom fans supported a lawsuit like this that they won and game designers have had to walk through a minefield of potential legal issues since.

[@Bickiiification]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@lunasakara7306]

It's morally correct to violate Nintendo, they have no rights.