The Past Has Past

[@hoonterofhoonters6588]

It makes me think of that video of a man reciting the Epic of Gilgamesh. "In those ancient days..." What is ancient to the Sumerians?

[@AlexKS1992]

I saw that video and it was awesome. Learned what Sumerian language sounds like.

[@belstar1128]

There so so much of human history that was never written who knows what kind of strange things have happened in the deeps past that where never written down.

[@hubertblastinoff9001]

@@belstar1128 There is a story which can be found on both sides of the Bering Strait in such similar ways that it boggles the mind for it to have been chance... If it is indeed not chance, that gives a terminus ante quem over 10 000 years ago

[@belstar1128]

​ @Hubert Blastinoff You know that Eskimos could travel across the Bering Strait with ease i don't know what story you are talking about but it could be newer if they stories are not used deeper into America or Eurasia.

[@hubertblastinoff9001]

@@belstar1128 One of its "Western" examples is an ancient Greek myth...

[@matthewj0429]

I think this a great balance for respecting the past without idolizing it

[@Alareiks1177]

@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 True my friend

[@yugen]

Without a doubt, future cultures will look back and idolize the time we're living in right now. We know that it's so, so far from idyllic.

[@TheSwanbear]

This is a very interesting topic. I'm an archaeologist so naturally, I deal with time every day in my work. One thing that has always made me surprised is when people say things like "in the ANCIENT viking times", as if the viking age was some sort of starting point of history, a truly ancient past. Much like you point out in the video, I think many want to see the "true" history, whatever that is to them. And for some reason, the viking age has become that for a lot of people! Maybe it's the recent media picking up on this interesting period of time, maybe it's something else. The reason why it surprises me is, to me the Viking age is not ancient at all. I mostly work with older material - Late Mesolithic and Early Neolithic, to be precise. In Scandinavia where I live, these periods are around 7000 - 6000 BCE (quite roughly). This means 9000 to 8000 years have gone by since then. The viking age, on the other hand, was roughly 800 years ago. To me, coming from an even older perspective, the viking age is almost modern day. Then I have a collegue who works with a material that is 1.5 million years old, and suddenly my Late Mesolithic flint and slate axes seem quite modern and advanced... I just find it very interesting what "old" or "ancient" means to people. It is clear that it differs a lot from person to person!

[@r1a1p1AllenPogue]

Swanbear, maybe you should start making content for your channel?

[@Hvitserk67]

In popular science terms, the reason may be that we know quite a lot about the Viking Age, but relatively little about how people lived before this. We know, for example, that people have lived in Norway since the 11th to 10th millennia BC, but only a few wooden arrow shafts and clubs have been excavated. This is not enough (again in popular science terms) to create a "story" as with, for example, the Vikings where we most importantly also have written sources.

[@jamesfforthemasses]

When trying to understand any culture I think you need a point to focus on as stuff changes. Like a slice in time. I think of the viking age as a large enough moderately consistent bookmark, one of these slices, and a moderately reliable step towards ancient thought. It is pre christian, as well as actually giving eyewitness to what at least one set of prechristians made of the change. It also stretches back to late roman times so more like 1600 than 800.

[@cuchicheo88]

Mesolithic Scandinavia is awesome. I had no idea until I started taking graduate-level courses in Archaeology.

[@driphella4080]

Dr. Jackson Crawford: Missourah Me, a Missourian: Nice

[@synkkamaan1331]

Abe Simpson: I'll be deep in the cold cold ground before I recognise Mizurah!

[@normanfury8259]

First time I've heard someone from outside our state pronounce it that way

[@tzkbb]

it threw me for a loop because no one in southeast Missouri pronounces it like that, but no one out of state pronounces it like that either, so it's very much a northern MO marker to me.

[@darklingeraeld-ridge7946]

Yes, perspectives, especially in deep time, can be hard to grasp. We are nearer to Cleopatra than she was to the builders of the pyramids, for instance.

[@SteveBonario]

Excellent example!

[@alfredwotanson7971]

I think one reason people do this is because many of us struggle with forming a positive identity in the modern era. So we go back searching for something that feels more authentic. I've been a part of various groups working towards restoring pre-Christian religions, and it's pretty interesting to see new people come in focused on a particular time and place (usually vikings). Then as they become more involved their view of history widens and they begin to shape their identity and religion on the whole line of their ancestors rather than a singular people from a certain time period.

[@Hvitserk67]

Very interesting video. Here in Norway, it is rare that people can study their family further back than approx. 1600s. The reason is the church books do not go back further than this. Those who can follow the story further back are usually from an old and/or wealthy family that is written into the history. Few families, however, can study their history further back than the Black Death (1347-1351) in which at least a third of Norway's population died.

[@hubertblastinoff9001]

In Germany the point at which records get too sparse for the vast majority of genealogical research is the 1618-1648 Thirty Years War which entailed the burning of countless churches and with it genealogical records. If Shakespeare had been a German, we would likely know even less about him than we do...

[@Hvitserk67]

@@hubertblastinoff9001 The Thirty Years' War was cruel and especially to ordinary people. An estimated 40% of the German-speaking population at the time were killed, starved to death or died of diseases. In Norway, less attention was paid to the war, although Christian IV (who was king of Denmark-Norway and Duke of Holstein) took advantage of the situation and invaded Germany, but without success. The new thing about the 30-year war was that it was also fought by private armies on behalf of kings, emperors, dukes and other rulers (eg the German-speaking areas consisted of about 1500 small states). The payment for warfare was usually the occasion to plunder the areas they occupied.

[@aesir1ases64]

if you were born in the americas, specially south america, your odds of knowing your family lineage before the late 19th century is very low.

[@hbowman108]

@@aesir1ases64 Many people in the United States and Canada are descended from populations who had very good church records dating back to the very beginning of European settlement. Other white North Americans are impossible to trace before there was a census, except for the clues given in genetic databases. My ancestors are both, as well as some people who came from Europe later. The ancestors of French speakers in North America are exceptionally well known and those born before 1850 have been compiled centrally by a state-sponsored project at the University of Montreal.

[@meginna8354]

In Iceland, everyone can trace their lineage back to settlement in 870AD. In fact, there was made an online database from all the records where you can see how you're related to any Icelander, living or dead, weather from the 1600s or 900s. It's a shame that they only included up to the first settlers of Iceland and left out the rest, because sources like Lándnámabók often document their lineages, father to son, way back to kings in Scandinavia, like Ragnar Loðbrók for instance.

[@jordanlake9819]

That can be an easy rabbit hole for history lovers to fall down, including myself. Very well said 👏

[@Veshgard]

"If we could see pictures of all these ancestors..." - You know what really blows my mind? We are still only at the dawn of the visual age. 5000 years from now, people WILL be able to see pictures of all their ancestors going back about 5000-5200 years. One day, when World War II will be as distant as the Roman Empire is to us, people will be able to see video footage of those "ancient" times and that great ancient war. Also, since they will have recordings of our languages, no one will ever have to re-construct ancient languages any more. They will be able to listen to us speaking them.

[@fugithegreat]

That's really interesting to think about, assuming that our records aren't destroyed in the meantime, or that we haven't destroyed ourselves. We may have collected a lot of information, but it seems pretty fragile to me unless we constantly update all our information to the latest technology. At the rate the hardware it takes to process these sounds and images becomes obsolete so quickly. For instance, they might find an old cd, but would people in 5000 years have a cd player, or indeed even know what a cd was for? And anyway, wouldn't the cd be so degraded that it was unreadable? I have a lot of cds that got a single scratch and they now can't be read. A heavy solar storm could potentially wipe out our digital records in one blow. Also, at what point do we decide that some information is no longer worth storing? Lots of interesting things to think of here.

[@HickoryDickory86]

There are few things more durable than stone, which is why ancient Near Eastern cultures used stone and clay (scribed upon and then baked) tablets for archival record-keeping. Even so, what has been preserved and uncovered of those records to the present day is relatively, pitifully scant compared to what once was there. It is really sad. So much wonderful history and insight, gone forever. The prospect of far future people being able see and hear us is wonderful (if not also sobering and humbling, as I think it should be), but we should also learn from the past as we now see it and not get caught up in chronological snobbery. As @fugithegreat pointed out, far future generations may no longer possess the ability to access and play our media. This could be either because they will have progressed far beyond its primitive nature or themselves devolved into something more primitive than we now have. Considering that even in our present day, we have lost entirely the original cuts of movies and television shows from the 50s through the 80s, never to be recovered, there is no guarantee that what we have stored, and how it is stored, will last. Even hard drives and SSDs (the very things making up the storage capacity in our data centers and servers) have limited life spans and every one of then will stop working one day.

[@CarlosSanchez-my7zg]

good observation! thats an interesting thought

[@Veshgard]

@@HickoryDickory86 I am certain that *most* of our recordings will be lost over time. But some will survive. Probably those that we consider to be extremely popular and/or extremely important, so that we make huge numbers of copies of them, and keep copying them every time we switch to new hardware. Just like we have the Iliad and the Odyssey, so far-future people will probably have Star Wars. Why? Because it has been copied so many times - and presumably will continue to be - that it's highly unlikely for ALL copies to be lost or destroyed. Less popular movies and shows, on the other hand, will certainly be lost over the centuries.

[@otterheart3844]

@@Veshgard it's interesting to think too that people may "discover" stars wars and come up with a whole narrative about this time frame based on it.

[@RLybarger1986]

Humanity has a tendency to romanticize both the past and the future.

[@tompatterson1548]

Yep

[@droops63]

I must try to remember to use the phrase "snake-cuddling crazy" at some point. That's a gem. :)

[@hubertblastinoff9001]

This also goes to "historical eras". We perceive the First World War and the Revolutions of 1848 to be in different "eras" but Franz Joseph of Austria became emperor in 1848 and would only die two years into the First World War. Wilhelm II would regularly visit and talk to veterans of the 1870 War that led to the formation of his empire and he chastised Moltke the younger when he gave him an unsatisfactory answer "Your uncle would have given me a different reply" - Moltke the older was technically born in the 18th century. And we have audio of him.... Wilhelm II meanwhile died in 1940. His grandfather Wilhelm I was alive during the Battle of Tilsit...

[@jaojao1768]

It is said that the american jurist Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr shook hands with both John Quincy Adams and John F Kennedy

[@tompatterson1548]

Aren’t those kind of the two boundaries of an era?

[@gerardvila4685]

There's a line in Asterisk I always loved: "Man, you gotta move with the times! You gotta be ancient!"

[@joeredmond7227]

Which Asterix was that in

[@gerardvila4685]

@@joeredmond7227 I'm not sure, it might have been “Astérix Légionnaire" (Asterix the Legionary?). Trouble is, I read Asterix a very long time ago. And the quote was my own free translation of my memory of the French version - not the published English version!

[@inregionecaecorum]

My grandfather was born and grew to manhood during the Victorian Era, but I am now older than he was when he died. When he was born some veterans of Waterloo would still be alive.

[@stolman2197]

I have that kind of thing, I(1968) was raised by my granddad (1907) who grew up with his grandfather (1845) who got his toes amputated from frostbite while crossing the plains with his family in 1856. What's the past is relative.

[@rafaelcarvalho3928]

Very nice meditation. loved it.

[@caseygoddard]

Interesting topic. Those mountains in the background are really something to look at too.

[@Virginia-er9si]

Thanks a lot Dr. Crawford, awesome talk. As always, I have found highly fascinating listen to it. Really interesting as a reflection from different viewpoints, from the linguistic to the political historical one. In my study trying to undersrand the impact "of past on past" has always been a fundanental step. A context where convinction, influences, models are often elements of a unique historical framework, being deeper and deeper valorized in its core meanings from time to time.

[@param1790]

What we find in many of the old surviving texts is, that old is relative. Even they talk about their ancestors. When a Roman senator of Punic wars talks about Homeric heroes he’s already talking about poems that are 500 years old. Hell, Rome herself is more than 500 years old. Well, a bit more than 500 years ago from today, Roman Empire was still a political entity. Past always has a past. We are all connected. We must resist the bias of looking through the prism of today.

[@swagmundfreud666]

The fact that the tale of Ulysses was the most popular book in ancient Rome would be like if the most popular book today was Havamal (which would be very cool but alas is not the case)

[@caspian8650]

It really is very good to stop and think about the basics sometimes. Thank you.

[@LeoxandarMagnus]

The most important thing about knowing the past, as I reckon it, is the scope it brings to your own life. Especially considering how brief our own spans are, it is good to know how we got here, whether where we are is better or worse. I'm definitely guilty of thinking there was some "truer" society in the past, but I think where we came from is becoming less important than how we got here. Still much to think about, so thanks for giving your thoughts on the matter. I always appreciate these candid videos.

[@yugen]

Just want to touch on that point regarding relativism... Life can seem short when viewed in it's vastness, but there are great amounts of time in the details. A day can go by and you barely feel like you've woken up, but there are vast chasms of time within a day. A man can achieve far more in a day than he often believes. In a sense, yes, life is short, but in another sense, there are great nodes of time within every moment.

[@annestauffer9579]

Your mention of the (unknowable) “original” version of any text puts me in mind of the speculations about who Homer might have been, and what he was working from (if indeed he was a single person).

[@newworldlubbock]

9:45 The true form is what's true at that moment. Thank you for making that statement. I think that sums it up right there. It's true (possibly) that Tyr was the chief god at some point, then it's true that Odin was chief god at a later point in time. At the time of the Poetic and Prose Eddas it's true that the Christian god was the chief god at THAT point.

[@banananer16]

I'm an archaeologist and that feeling you describe of wanting to get to older and deeper versions of things is precisely what got me into my field (Japan's Kofun period). Sometimes I feel like Gollum as Gandalf described him: "The most inquisitive and curious-minded of that family was called Smeagol. He was interested in roots and beginnings; he dived into deep pools; he burrowed under trees and growing plants; he tunneled into green mounds." At the same time, I try to bear in mind that "older" doesn't mean "closer to the original". I study landscape and environment (particularly natural disasters) and people often ask me what the "original" landscape was like, before the industrial era. I don't know what that could even mean, since humans have left noticeable impacts on the environment for as long as they have lived in any place. And besides, humans were not the only factor in environmental change. The Japanese archipelago looked very different 18 million years ago when it was attached to Eurasia, 20,000 years ago at the end of the Last Glacial Maximum when elephants roamed treeless steppes, 3,500 years ago when cooling climates caused a huge deciduous-evergreen shift in temperate forests, 1,200 years ago when all the virgin forests around Heian-Kyo (Kyoto) had already been logged. If we were to attempt "landscape reconstruction" as many people want, how do we choose which landscape to return to? There is always more nuance and complexity than most people recognize.

[@hubertblastinoff9001]

Beaver dams are one example of profound impacts on landscape that has nothing to do with humans. Is the creek more "original" with or without the beaver dam?

[@WhenGoblinsRGood]

As an ecologist I’m definitely familiar with these arguments. In the end it depends on our goals and values.. do we value green space, development, biodiversity, preservation? Good discussions to have.

[@craigholman4365]

I could stand and listen to you and your fountain of knowledge for days! in fact, I plan to! Thanks Dr! 😊

[@samuelterry6354]

Everything is constantly becoming.

[@samuelterry6354]

@@jameswoodard4304 I actually had Heraclitus in mind, but Buddha works as well.

[@TarotsApprentice]

so true and never thought about it. I find myself talking about the past as if it has a cut off point.

[@greg_mid_tn3150]

You should never go 'snake-cuddling crazy' unless she's a redhead. And then only once!

[@entrepreneursfinest]

It is a testament to the creativeness of mankind that mankind lends itself to an original creation.

[@stevengentry9396]

I really enjoyed this video, thanks. There is always something that came before.

[@schoo9256]

"Snake-cuddling crazy". Beautiful.

[@danamaennchen]

Thanks for this. What an interesting perspective to understand. Though difficult, it's important to not psychologically anchor ones self to a fantastical understanding on one point in time and cement it as pure. Very interesting conversation.

[@mohnkern]

Interesting and good discussion. That background made me really miss Jackson Hole. I worked in West Thumb in 1986.

[@christiem.schaefer1374]

Thank you for this valuable insight. I think that search for the True X has caused a lot of trouble (certainly with the forming of nationalisms in the mid/late ninteteenth and through the twentieth centuries). It also can blind a person to the truths of their times - what makes living now important and how to build toward a better future.

[@SteveBonario]

I suspect the way history is often taught (in periods, eras, blocks, ranges of years, etc.) leads us to compartmentalize the past, and often out of its context within a greater time frame.

[@ergocinema]

Old gets tied up with true, because people confuse original ideas with evergreen ideas. That which stands the test of time can be considered more true in a certain sense, but like you said the past ideas are not necessarily more true because they are older.

[@Jim-Mc]

Gotta go watch Uncle Ellis' monologue from No Country for Old Men now.

[@JanCarol11]

Interesting from a tribal perspective. Every indigenous tribe I have interacted with first wanted to know my ancestors, and through that, to know me. If I could not show knowledge of my ancestors (which I did not get that lineage until I was in my 30's), there was nothing to teach me. I needed roots in order to grow branches. But to say that the branches are different from the roots - while they are - they are still part of a greater thing. Whatever it is. (ancestry, tribe, god, or tree, well, stream, hill or rock).

[@thomasacreman6007]

I recall reading that the ancient Persians saw the world they lived in as being incredibly ancient. Even people in 7000 BC saw their world as ancient with an immense past.

[@anastasiossioulas83]

Great point. One is tracing forcefully Old Norse in the past and the other is the comparison with other Indo-European branches. Even in Greece the prominent deity originally was the original version of Poseidon, a roaming man with a shaking spear, and even for these we don't know details.

[@dylanherbst3088]

Sometimes, listening to you talk about culture and how certain conceits relate to everyday thought and life, is like being gifted wisdom. It's always thought provoking.

[@christy734]

Pure authenticity is hard to find in any aspect of life. I believe that’s what many of us are trying to rediscover, in one form or another. Something pure and honest.

[@christianmolick8647]

Many thanks for contributing time and again some of the best content on KZbin.

[@garychynne1377]

right on. thank yew

[@christaverduren690]

When I lived in Idaho/Montana I was out west, when I moved home to NY I was back east.

[@NeilBraun]

I was typing a comment in here and it vanished in mid sentence, I don't know if it got posted or not, but if it did, I'm sorry I didn't finish. I type with my rather opposable thumbs and since I'm on a phone all sorts of random things happen. Now I'm not sure if I should try again, or if I will be saying the same thing twice.

[@JB-nm2im]

What a great Video, thx.

[@davb11]

I really liked this video..!

[@alisonjane7068]

Very insightful.

[@lornemiller3489]

This too shall pass was this too shall pass

[@Davidium84]

As always an interesting take on the perspective of time and how everything is tied to that which came before but that that doesn’t limit the value or “trueness”, necessarily at least, of what is or what was at that particular time! Much love from David and Linnéa from Sweden

[@csmith9210]

I think this topic just started a new wrinkle on my brain. I must contemplate. Ouch. Thinking hurts!

[@vissualss]

Great video

[@jonathanswoyer5218]

I think this can be applied to "better" and "the way things used to be and still should be" also.

[@csegely]

From the title I got the idea that the video would be about the history of the historiography of the viking age, sort of how scholarly understanding of this bit of the past evolved over time. The video was great nonetheless, but it would also be interesting to hear about this other topic sometime.

[@witchdokturr]

I've noticed that some of the best scholars & scientists have a tremendous talent for recognizing and stepping outside of their and societies preconceived notions about various concepts, and that their analysis always leaves me with a feeling of reverence for the grandeur and nuance of our universe, as well as a deep humility with regards to the finite and fallible human perspective. It seems clear that our perception has formed itself around the concepts of beginning and end, for various reasons, and we have to work hard to recognize that such a neat delineation between things is simply an artifact of our evolution that's certainly useful, but also denies us a fuller view of reality if we get married to it. Enlightening as always, Dr Crawford

[@MinimalSymphony]

I love these videos, please keep talking about these subjects!

[@darraghchapman]

Never encountered 'snake-cuddling crazy' before. I like it :)

[@TheBottegaChannel]

It's interesting how you bring up points about vague colloquial stop gaps in refrence to human thought processes and speech patterns. When I tell my nephews and nieces stories I heard when I was younger, I start out by saying " Back in the time before people wrote words,", " Way, way back in the days of dream time-" or conversely, " Back when man kind could still understand the language of nature, because at that point everything spoke the same language-" if it's from a culture that stems from an oratory tradition based system. That way they can kind of understand that it was ( as my nephew said it appropriately) a " really" long time ago.

[@ForgottenFirearm]

That is an excellent perspective! I've had thoughts in this vein, but you really specified and organized the concepts in a useful way.

[@marlene56-143]

We give it meaning.

[@Alaedious]

Mizura? 🤣😂😁😆😉 Loved the video.

[@siegfriedhagelsturm5451]

The Wheel of Time knows neither beginnings nor ends.

[@kaihinkelmann]

Well, there is the big bang, so....

[@belstar1128]

One day the universe will be over 100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 years old and there will still be something that exists our planet will be gone but there will still be something.

[@kaihinkelmann]

@@belstar1128 How without time? (depending on endless exspanding or collapsing of the universe)

[@belstar1128]

@@kaihinkelmann There is probably always going to be time scientists think that even before the big bang there was time but time could be slower or faster.

[@siegfriedhagelsturm5451]

Who's to say that the Big Bang was the original one and not a universe was there before it? It's THE beginning for us, but only A beginning in a wider spectrum.

[@adrianwebster6923]

I find it a useful and fascinating exercise to think back on all of the events and changes I have lived through then recognizing that my parents have lived through all of those and then think back through the history that they lived through before me. It really gives one a good sense of perspective and that is only 2 generations. We have alot of connections to the past, but there is also a gulf of difference due to all of the history that has happened since then. Learning about the past and finding connections is wonderful, but to try and base your identity on it is doing a disservice to oneself. You are not who you are without all of the history that has happened between your chosen starting point and today.

[@MichaelSmith-fh4rn]

Well done!

[@Liskenstein]

Mr Crawford, you should order the works of John Bauer of Småland Sweden

[@Fricker112]

Love the mention of Virginia. Where my Virginia boys at?

[@InezAllen]

I'm so unaccustomed to hearing people who have /ʍ/ it always throws me for a bit of a loop when I hear you say it

[@JavaRivers]

I think everyone would love to identify with a culture that they can be proud of. What with certain negative aspects of modern cultures, some people (myself included) would rather disown those aspects and replace them with those of another culture (or adopt that culture entirely). One's pride in a culture can be bolstered with genetic ties. That means looking to ancestors, to the past, to find a better way to adopt. Possibly some people are misled into believing that "older is truer" because of this, the feeling that the past was before all the bad things happened. After all, the younger parts of societies are always closer to their downfalls. You've given me something to think about. I'm reforming my thinking now, as I did in fact stumble across your channel looking for who the Vikings truly were. Yesterday I would've fully believed in the "older is truer" idea.

[@joshadams8761]

While you are near Jackson, check out Dornan’s Pizza Pasta Company. Stunning views from the dining area.

[@ZardoDhieldor]

People have this reflex to interpret and give meaning to scientific findings and this is especially true for history. You see this best in religious text where the description of the past isn't really meant to be factual as much as it serves to create an identity and a foundation for morality. It is often more a narrative, i.e. a tale that creates meaning, than a factual account of what actually happened.

[@seancarnell1503]

Dr. Crawford, great video as always. As cultures are a blend and evolution of the many cultures before them would be it be a stretch to expand your analogy 7:30 mark to say "Is my paternal line's great grandfather a 'truer' ancestor than my maternal line's great grandmother"?

[@viracocha6093]

Depends on the culture

[@garyleeparker]

I love this for two reasons. First, the fundamental truth of the main point, that human culture is an unbroken chain going back to some arbitrary point at which we decide the last proto-human gave birth to the first full human, and then back before that through the last common ancestor between humans and the great apes, and on and on to the beginning of life on his planet. And further, if you want it to. So there is no penultimate moment at which all things are defined. So things don't ultimately "mean" any one thing. You can't find the "true meaning" of a certain rune, or a certain name, or a certain phrase, or a certain symbol. But second, I love this because it subtly points out that, since there is no ultimate true moment, things mean what we decide they mean. And that can be true, even if they only hold that meaning for one person. For me, the symbol of a coyote biting his own tail holds a certain meaning. But since I created the symbol, I'm fairly sure it doesn't actually "mean" what it means to me at any fundamental level. It only means those things to me. So it really doesn't matter if the Helm of Awe meant something we can't now determine at some general time in the Viking past. Or at least it doesn't matter in any fundamental way. Of course it is of interest. But the fact that a symbol meant something specific to some group of people at some specific point in the past doesn't have much bearing on what that symbol might mean to us today. Which is freeing in a way. Because we are free to assign whatever meaning we want to whatever symbol we want, and, for us, that then becomes its true meaning. No matter what the naysayers nay. If for me a certain symbol is a symbol of protection, or a reminder of a specific value, or an expression of a specific hope, then that is what it means. To and for me. And that's really all that matters outside of some specific scholarship application.

[@Orpheuslament]

This is something I think about a lot

[@sympathiea]

Norse and Scando/Norse adjacent stuff on the internet, needs this concept recognized, because we've probably all seen a Wardruna/Heilung comment section. As an example: the Eddas say Odin snatched 16 runes, but what about when Wođanaz and the 24, 800 years before that? Where you claim heritage and familial ties to ultimately says more about the claimant than the claimed. Purity is a romantic illusion, and when our tape gets rewound far enough, we're in Miocene Central Africa.

[@EmptyTheaterMask]

One room, 4 people in it. Everyone sat in a different place. They can all agree they are in a room. None will agree as to how the room looks. Some will be able to see outside through windows, some not. All know there is fire in the hearth but only one knows what burns inside. All these people will write a Story about this room. This is history.

[@maxdamagusbroski]

It's about significant formative cultural evolution/stages.

[@Ammo08]

My grandfather was a trooper in the Indian nations, his brothers rode with the Confederacy, the past is very close sometimes..

[@heathenwolf4997]

That's exactly how I feel about Washington state, where I am from. I always wondered who the first people were there before.. Like the first person to ever live. Before the Natives..

[@mythiclore5508]

Wait... you live in Jackson Hole? Love that place. Went several times when I was a kid. Gotta go up that tram at least one more time someday.

[@kellybraille]

Gotta respect a man who says Mahsourah (Missouri) correctly 😋

[@jorenbosmans8065]

On the topic of "the original", I always wonder how far you can go back until it is something completely different. If you take modern music for example, there are songs that are a cover of a cover of a covef and so on. Where the original and the last version look nothing alike. Can you still compare them then?

[@z_monty]

1:23 springy squirrel

[@sherrillknight6697]

Have linguists any clues about what some of the most ancient words might be ? Probably utterances like "ouch!" or "look out!"

[@michaelshelton5488]

As Matt Easton of Scholagladiatoria would say, we need to view the past in its proper "context" 🤣

[@cerberaodollam]

that collab would be awesome tbh

[@davidbouvier8895]

Context necessarily itself changes through time. As a child I was taught that Attica in ancient Greece was the cradle of our democracy. But in later life I learned that enfranchised voters however were a tiny minority of the adult population, all of them male property owners. All women, all propertyless men, and all slaves had no say. Some democracy, eh?

[@feakhelek1]

Humans have trouble dealing with ongoing processes. Instead we ask "what _is_ it?" then try to identify a single, static, thing. It's possible that time has no beginning or end, but we cannot envision that. Everything is constantly interacting with every other thing. People are not one thing; they are a process. You can't take a snapshot of a process and say that this is what the thing is, but we have a very difficult time avoiding that way of thinking. We think of objects, cause and effect, and other concepts that help us deal with the world, but they are just concepts, not the actual things we are describing.

[@walkerealy8985]

I totally hear you JC. I think its natural for someone to consider the oldest version of something as being 'the most pure' I think the best examples are with music, we tend to consider say The Beatles as the most pure rock due to its closeness to when rock and roll originated. Though you are completely right that its kind of pointless to think this way because then you may say that rock is derived from jazz and jazz is derived from African influence and it may also have influences in folk music from multiple cultures. I think the mythology example is particularly good because even in very ancient mythologies as Egyptian there are speculations of it having origins of the Nubians but we get to the age then where there is little physical evidence available. Its all purely relative and whats more fascinating I would say is to also ask how it has changed and why rather than only looking for the origins of things. Great Video Dr. Crawford!

[@Ratnoseterry]

Beautiful dialogue. I spend a lot of time reconstructing the past, and have realized some very odd things in the course of this, many things that go without comment. The Viking age was a very late state of the Norse people, and their myths, recounted even after their time, describe a time when Norse royalty double crossed the people of the steps, Mongolia, Siberia or some such people. In Sweden an axe was found with a priestess holding two snakes, below her a wheel with 3 snake heads. This same 3 headed snake motif could be found as a statue melted down from the bronze weapons of the Persians after Sparta defeated them, after the 300 even. This battle itself was fought under the pretense that the Persians being sons of Perseus had right to the land the Spartans lived on, who were sons of Heracles(who the Greeks recorded themselves as being like to Thor), himself a descendant of Perseus. Who were these people, and whose to say there was no truth here? There are stories of priestess from Sweden who would make journeys south to the island of Delos accompanied by 5 warriors. Brings to mind Jason, and the 5 dragons teeth thrown to the ground sprouting 5 peoples, Spartoi among them. Many of the people of Phrygia were said to be Celts, or Celtiberians who moved there themselves. Mithradites was followed by Scythian shaman from the tribe Agari, where we get the name for Agaric mushrooms, and they were snake handlers, thought themselves to be cursed to be Hermaphrodites. This itself has many parallels in Norse myth, and around the world likewise. And what of the Tocharians? All that is clear is how much is not clear.

[@kode1303]

What blows my mind about time is that is basically only consists of past and future - the present is bordering zero. Think about it: a millionth of a second ago is the past, and a millionth of a second from now is the future. So the present time is actually just the border where the past and the future meets - and yet we only experience the present - we can’t go back or forwards in time even if it’s only a millionth of a second.

[@kode1303]

Grå Vandreren True!

[@Edward24081]

Reminded me of Joe Rogan saying something to the effect of "the Civil War was three people ago".

[@jamesfforthemasses]

Fascinating as ever, of course there's a distinct possibility that when/if Tiw was more Zeus he may not have been major. Maybe Zeus and jupiter were promoted, or maybe they were more Odin. To my limited knowledge other ancient cultures are also plagued with this time puzzle where even though records are there you see gods and hierchies evolve making the true pantheon hard to determine, and you have to pick a frozen slice from a set period if you want anything concrete. I also think that locality plays a huge role, where maybe cults rise in prominent areas or among influential people. Do you think that in ancient society two communitites having different head gods was deemed a problem in the way that it is now? I suspect that heresy is a relatively modern concept, at least with the strength and fervour that it now has. I also suspect that "my god" was frequently the prevalent concept over "the god".

[@jackpayne4658]

That was a fascinating piece! I'm reminded of the history of the Druids, as recounted in Ronald Hutton's 'Blood and Mistletoe'. The actual historical evidence is very limited, contradictory, and easily conveyed in one chapter. But the speculative approach, which began in the 16th century, led to a series of re-inventions, historical fantasies, nationalist revivals, and New Age myth-making. The history of 'popular history' is surely a subject in its own right. As you say, the supposed 'origin' of anything has no essential value - any more than a future version will have. In rural England, there are various 'ancient traditions' which can (with a little effort) be traced back to an advertising campaign, circa 1972.

[@bloomeenee]

I have never heard a non-geordie pronounce our (or should I say wor!) accent as well as you do at the start of this video!

[@koenigcochran]

Man this is making me miss the rockies

[@paulawakefield7869]

Notions of 'original' and 'adaptation' are problematic in this way when discussing texts / textual 'authenticity'.

[@tsangarisjohn]

Time is relative and spooky... multiple truths can exist at once, all of them unique yet also connected. Fascinating 🖖🏻

[@fractalshift]

I have been tussling with a similar issue doing geneological and archeogenetic research. How far back do you go when you reach a point that the ancestor is awefully far removed from who "you" are? I decided the late bronze age is about as far back as I'm willing to go (which took me to the Minoans and ancient Greeks) beyond that the proto europeans become indecipherable in migrations and cross cultural art....maybe cause I'm an amateur, and want to remain such. They are no more true that I am, and there are so many branches and tribes and peoples and the rise and fall of civilizations. Good stuff, and I love it, but less and less meaningful as we go back into the many branches that came together to make "me".

[@randomusername5242]

The past is past, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked to for the present or future. Most likely our lives would be better off by returning to our past.

[@remen_emperor]

What's funny is that Zeus had to shift a bit before being the top god of the Greek pantheon. An older, different version of Poseidon was the top god before him. It's possible that the top god when the pantheon was just becoming its own was actually somebody else Tyr could have been a top god at one point, but just because he might be a cousin to Zeus, he's not necessarily special. He could've always been a side character deity, like Zeus seemed to be before the Bronze Age Collapse. It's all up to the whims of the population, and the populations in question here are so different that there might just not be any use saying that some gods are the cousins of another culture's God for anything other than deific lineage

[@patcoughlin9473]

You could substitute 'genuine' for true here as well because I think a lot of people entertain that misconception...

[@ToastMaster2C]

"...You could mean, Missourah!"