The Path Not Taken

This is Total War in 2012. A year later we had the Siege of Carthage false marketing and claims of "Saving Private Ryan" feelings being imbued into Total War. How far short we have fallen ever since.
#totalwar #fallofthesamurai #shogun2
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[@Volound]

completed my first campaign in FOTS in over a decade yesterday (and the first time i did it with the steam version). an achievement popped up. complete a campaign on legendary. i won it on turn 60 or something by accident because my allies met the victory conditions (claim japan for the shogunate). it was an accident. it was easy. 1% of players have done it. so a small % of total war players even have fall of the samurai. 1% of those have even played it properly much at all. these games are totally unrecognised for what they achieved. not even gotten to the naval battles yet. P.S. PHARAOH LMAO.

[@ASAS-ve4sr]

Who's gonna tell him?

[@pyaehtetaung]

I think steam achievements count % for all shogun 2 owner (of course only on steam). Btw check out new mod for gun range. Realistic range type2.

[@Volound]

of course it means anything. dont be so frivolously silly. you just lended it even further meaning by pointing out that even the warhammer plastic collectors manage better on their arcade game. you are proving my point which is that this game is completely underappreciated and untapped by the playerbase. ​@@the_mad_fool

[@Volound]

this is extremely forced squirming. legendary is how you get the AI to make up for being braindead by pumping out stacks and outnumbering the player. the only way to consistently be properly outnumbered in this game and have the kind of battle in this very video is to play on legendary - so the braindead AI can actually bring anything out of the player. thats why people play on legendary. thats what they expect. im having to explain the purpose of difficulty in games now. thats where we are. ​@@bandaro1234

[@nvmtt1403]

@@Volound one of the bigger issues with people not playing legendary is the inability to stop for good screenshots. I have tried out legendary and it wasnt that tough compared to VH, but the inability to take good screenshots was simply annoying.

[@LegendofTotalWar]

I do love a good hill. late game fots battles are very satisfying. balance of power stops meaning very much, which is a good thing.

[@Volound]

a good hill, a good plan. loving the shogun 2 and FOTS resurgence currently going on. fought this 2 days ago, rendered it yesterday, and uploaded it on the same day as your own video that was getting to the same parts of the game. been playing as saga and trying to take things even further earlier.

[@Elendrian]

Your lustiness of hills is rapidly approaching mene status😂

[@RichHistoryHistorian]

If they were to just Re-skin Shogun Total War with like American Civil War, or Victorian Era units, with matching voices, it would be a better game than anything they put out in the past 10 years.

[@justinr6006]

They would need to rethink the campaign a bit but a Civil War game would be amazing.

[@captainnyet9855]

Sad but true; I always wanted an Empire 2 that incorperated all the lessons learned with NTW, S2 & FotS but CA chose another direction and now I'm at a point where I specifically don't want ETW2 because I know it would probably feel worse than even theboriginal with all it's problems that were never fixed.

[@Ryuko-T72]

1840s-80s campaign, revolts of 1848 start date (can play as some revolting factions maybe?), along with a unit upgrade system like from rome 2 would be perfect

[@jacobj869]

There’s a Carlist mod being worked on right now, and a Pike and Shot mod analogous to base Shogun II in progress as well. I’m not familiar with modding the game, as I’ve only worked with Medieval II, but from what I understand, for all its strengths Shogun II is a bear to mod.

[@ikmalkamal5830]

That's actually brilliant. Easy to do, only a few things to do and fix, and voila, job done. Sadly, the devs are idiots. Mods is where it's at.

[@nms8397]

Fall of the Samurai is an absolute masterpiece

[@KroM234]

There are a few bugs that should have been ironed out rapidly (like the units not responding during sieges in defense...), but overall it's together with Shogun 2 the best title of the series for sure.

[@krellio9006]

@@Smethells2023 psst, buy the codes on 3rd party websites

[@LeMrAlpaca]

@@KroM234 that bug is sadly carried over from shogun 2 and the more units you have on a siege the worse it can get

[@xxManscapexx]

FotS just feels right. Shogun 2 is one of those games that stays installed.

[@toupeiragamer8564]

Exactly. It was installed without being played for like 2 months, but then i got in the mood again.

[@righteousham]

I think it was you whom revealed it via one of the leaks from a dev: After this game's release CA decided that shooting for this level of polish was not worth the effort and they would aim lower instead. I can't recall the specifics numbers but it was something like, "we won't go for 90's anymore when 70 or 80 will do." And it really shows. Shogun 2 is highly polished but there are many areas (AI, diplomacy, etc.) that could've done with further refinement. If CA had chosen differently all those years ago, who knows how Total War would've looked like today.

[@Volound]

exactly. this game is the best theyve managed and theyre simply not interested in making the achievement greater. all it would take is a few more patches. instead they waste our time with pharaoh, and warhammer arcadey garbage as DLC pipelines. the value proposition of pharaoh, 11 years after this game, is a fucking joke. what an insult. there is absolutely no reason for that game to exist, nor for anyone to play it, when FotS exists. absolute joke.

[@beetheimmortal]

What you just described is the "path not taken" by CA. Quite poetic if you think about it.

[@spaceracer6861]

Isn't that the same shit Bungie said in that developer video? "Do not bother making masterpieces when you can also make money doing the bare minimum.". Well, CA won't even go that far, looking at the latest game...

[@thewingedone1172]

​@@shmekelfreckles8157Latest Total War games had been really hard into trying to be shitty paradox knockoffs on global map and tactical maneuvres were turned largely into stat manipulation. Fodder wont break from best knights in the world getting rear charge off, because their spreadsheet says they won't. Ridiculous.

[@phillidaadamus4349]

@@shmekelfreckles8157 Literally just watch any of Volound's gameplay mechanics explaining videos. Post Rome 2 TW games are pretty much broken at the core.

[@callum2277]

I honestly believe the reason guns are so dumbed down in Warhammer is because CA couldn't figure out how to fix the bugs with guns in shogun 2 that have existed all the way back to empire. Unit forming ,reforming and kneel fire bugs couldn't be fixed so they just took the easy route and made guns use the archer/crossbow code.

[@Volound]

had it more or less confirmed at one point by an ex-CA (that said otherwise dodgy stuff, so i wouldnt believe it 100%), that it was simply to make it more accessible to casuals. that makes sense because everything theyve done for a decade is appeal to the most casual players.

[@metaflight9495]

Crazy that their strategy was both to dumb down for unsophisticated players AND focus on people willing to dump hundreds of dollars into the same product. They built their strategy around selling to warhammer fanboys and literally nobody else.

[@valder8423]

@@shmekelfreckles8157 For those preferences, just get some Warhammer and LOTR mods for Medieval 2.

[@juggernaut9994]

Battles like this are some of the most satisfying experiences you can have in a Total War game. The fact that Shogun 2 has gotten a renewed interest with many players coming back to it could spell some hope that the community will better appreciate what has been lost with Rome II onward. If enough people abandon the newer games and switch back to the older pre-Rome II titles, it should send a strong message to CA that they can't continue with their current design and business practices and will have to actually invest into their games again, instead of milking people's wallets dry with "DLCs" (=mods with a price tag).

[@fearan9406]

Life in every breath Death in every bullet The sun rises, as does my pp

[@DragonballBlack]

You should make a video talking about the sudden SPIKE in Shogun 2 players in the past month 😮

[@Volound]

great to see it. a resurgence is happening. doing my bit to contribute to it. and that is a good idea. theres jaketheripper uploading campaigns. legendoftotalwar doing one-off videos not unlike this one. people are SHITTING ON warhammer et al. because games like these existed a decade ago. every day hundreds/thousands of warhammer plastic collectors are seeing the guns and cannon of this game and realising we were all right all along. THEY NEVER EVEN CHECKED.

[@DragonballBlack]

@@Volound the cannons and guns of this game were unmatched! We were teased a new Victorian angle too with Fall of the Samurai MY FAVORITE TOTAL WAR GAME. Imagine if they did that instead of Rome 2. We would be in a different timeline right now. There’s also a mod for Shogun that allows you to start as the US and European factions almost like scramble for japan. It even adds russia, korea and China. I recommend it highly.

[@jimbones5484]

​@Volound Warhammer plastic crackheads need a more accurate simulation of the tabletop game instead of the shitty Warcraft rip off. Wait! It's called the BOTET mod for Medieval 2, which does Warhammer and total war better than Cuckold Assembly has ever done in their entire joke of a trilogy.

[@asteroidmonger]

I reinstalled and have played a few campaigns, all from watching Volund and Dishonorable Daimyo vids in the wake of all the CA crap.

[@-RedCloud]

Peak total war for sure. At the current rate, I can't foresee it ever being this good again.

[@laningsmith9163]

The 19th Century actually wouldn’t be a bad place for total war. You have the American civil war in North America, Franco Prussian war, Second opium war in asia. They could do something similar to medieval 2 kingdoms and make separate campaigns in different parts of the world

[@siegfriedgottz698]

crimean war too

[@thewingedone1172]

Franco Prussian already had bolt action warfare. Total war model isnt for it.

[@JingleCot]

@@thewingedone1172 sure it could if ca would get their heads out of their arses

[@JakeTheRipper]

Love gatling guns, reminds me of the mg42's with attack ground orders preventing squads of infantry rushing points in RobZ

[@monadotheoneunovanwarrior4018]

_I've played a lot of Fall of the Samurai myself recently. Tried it for the first time about a week or two ago and ever since I've played about three campaigns on my own to varying success. Current third attempt is going very well though and considering I've been playing it more than any other game in my library is a testament to how brilliant Shogun 2 is._

[@sarge3294]

This game is just downright beautiful. Hands down, it is the most immersive total war game.

[@Rogdub]

god damn, i love vids like this where superior positioning, tactics and tech completely turn a battle. idk if you've answered this before but is there another lets play in the pipe f.e. of FOTS?

[@Volound]

thats what its all about. damn right. and nope i stopped doing those years ago

[@williamhenry8914]

I always play exclusively with the feudal units in fall of the samurai. It's really fun taking on rifles and machine guns with only arrows and swords.

[@andyruse4670]

It’s such a crying shame that even back then CA was showing their ass. Naval combat in empire and napoleon, great. Shogun 2… naval ai doesn’t turn on until you approach them if you’re attacking. How did they just leave that in the game?

[@beetheimmortal]

Imagine if CA actually went down the path of logical evolution and we got a Great War game that was a proper evolution of FotS. "Path not taken", indeed. PS: me and my mate I always used to play TW multiplayer with both have that Legendary campaign achievement. Not my personal rarest Steam achievement (that would be Alien Swarm: Reactive Drop's "Outstanding Execution: Nam Humanum", which a whopping 0.3% of players of that game have, and I achieved in SINGLE-PLAYER no less), but it's pretty high up there.

[@Volound]

they had a team of people at the studio trying to make a WW1 total war work as recently as a few years ago.

[@Mar1neEng1ne]

Overlapping fields of fire, small terrain advantages, concentration of force, unit cohesion. Its not just who has better stats, better range. You could reskin this, have better graphics and have a more in depth campaign and it would be better than anything CA has done since this.

[@adamredmayne1326]

Honestly while i appreciate and love Shogun 2 and FotS the replayability compared to Empire doesn't compare, what i wouldn't give for a more polished and refined Empire 2 with additional and expanded regions, more towns, cities, resources, units, factions, truly something for everyone.

[@cole8834]

the "aiming at the edges" is due to it being that every "shot" which a missile model takes is aimed directly at an enemy model* within a unit. It seems to be a function of "which model is closest to me?" + "which model is also not being currently aimed at?" hopefully that makes sense.

[@The_Crimson_Fucker]

That started with Empire and was never fixed. Even in Rome 2 you'd get artillery pieces shooting at the edges of infantry blocks.

[@cole8834]

@@The_Crimson_Fucker It probably saved a lot of processing power when in Empire they were toying with battles of up to 8,000 models all shooting muskets at each other. Instead of each soldier model trying to calculate the "optimum target" in the center of an enemy unit; they could just aim at another model, whose coordinates were more deterministic. I think*

[@SGProductions87]

units still shoot at the edges in warhammer 3. also, entire volleys shot at one entity, massively overkilling and wasting ammo.

[@The_Crimson_Fucker]

@@cole8834 If it were that easy they would've changed it by now but not even modders have been able to find a reliable fix for it and it's been 15 years. It seems, by all accounts, to be one of the long list of fundamental flaws with the engine - if it wasn't someone would've figured out how to at least make the artillery shoot center-mass with some degree of consistency. Warscape was always a sub-optimal engine, people new that when Empire came out in 2009, like 99% of Shogun 2's criticisms have to do with engine problems and every game since has been plagued by this PoS engine that CA refuses to retire(because, frankly, I'm not sure they're even capable of building a replacement anymore) .

[@thepizzafoogle5481]

I've made Total War-esque games myself, and this seems to be a recurring issue.

[@40kwarlord79]

A 12 year old game is superior in every way to the most modern Total War games... A SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!

[@TPSFANI13]

French marines with reload and accuracy buffs are insane. They devour through enemy units in seconds.

[@supersardonic1179]

The path not taken....is paved with overpriced Saga titles as well as nickel and diming DLCs.

[@antun88]

Still the AI is crap. That's one thing they never improved much. Walking like idiots while your light infantry is destorying them from the trees, then walking straight at the gatling guns.

[@Volound]

light infantry is hidden i.e. invisible. pretty sure i explained it at some point. also there was no way to attack me without facing the gatling guns. players do both of these in MP, which i doubt youve ever played. most people havent. AI is shit but you didnt show it.

[@CM-ls6fh]

I totally missed the resurgence of Shogun 2 but each time I come here and watch one of your masterful videos I get reminded on how CA perfected combat in this game and how they subsequently ruined and destroyed everything they stood for.

[@DerFreiegedanke]

Coop with a friend always is fun in FOTS. Had plenty hour of fun with this, naval Battles are really awnsome.

[@paulcar2356]

Would be really cool if you could upload some footage of those campaigns like you used to with the aizu

[@Volound]

not really got time for it, especially with the low views those videos would get. people usually use streams for that.

[@peterduck1204]

Something I love about FOTS is how even late game, melee/traditional units can be very good and useful, if niche. And early game spear levy > Infantry levy

[@InTecknicolour]

we need a victorian era or american civil war game with modern graphics, the politics from 3kingdoms with the fast paced battles and unit variety of shogun 2/fots. i do want strong "hero" generals but not 3kingdoms lu bu literally 1v10 by himself.

[@The_Blackshield]

It's a travesty, how far Total War has fallen. From this, to Pharaoh's dismal not-even-400 players so shortly after its release. Its criminal.

[@staz9619]

Awesome video as always Volound, are you going to upload the jozai campaign? I look forward to it!

[@Volound]

nope those days of uploading full form campaigns are long gone. not got the time and they dont get views anyway.

[@staz9619]

@@Volound Sorry to hear that, I will look forward to future uploads regardless.

[@Volound]

@staz9619 np, streams are a possible alternate format but i dont see myself starting any time soon.

[@JordanCorkins]

I gotta do another playthrough of this game and actually beat it on Legendary! I havent played a new Total war since the launch of Rome 2 but IMO Shogun 2, and FOTS just had a perfect balance that they never captured again.

[@FonzieKree]

The amount of people butthurt over not being able to beat the game on Legendary is hilarious. It's from Era where achievements were achievements and not participation badges. You get this if you take your time to learn the game and go out of you way, min max the campaign, find best campaign openers etc. Nobody and nowhere is said that not having this achievement bars you from having fun, you just simply didn't play the game to It's full potential AND THAT IS PERFECTLY OKAY. Damn people, have a bit own brain or go back to make screenshots. PS: I didn't beat Fots on Legendary.

[@Dani-xz1uw]

And that's how Tom Cruise got rekt again

[@ctgx7735]

Hey Volound, have you tried the Master of Strategy mod for both FoTS and regular Shogun 2?

[@GeeNo_]

Reading the comments reminded me, any chance of you going back to the idea of that Tokugawa no recruitment challenge? I know you were doing that with Cat but the challenge idea was cool enough I'd want to see more of it. Similar thing with the Hattori turn 1 Kyoto take. Way I see it was those two campaigns likely got to a point of being impossible to win at, but still cool to see the attempts nontheless!

[@meepo1862]

i like fots but the game is too easy even on legendary because artillery is too strong and the ai don't know how to counter it

[@feeblemind]

But that's what makes it fun. You're rewarded for making late game armies unlike other games

[@Sparticulous]

Every infantryman in world war 1 would agree with you meepo. Damn they should have nerfed artillery. At least they used a cheat code for motorized iron boxes with wheels to just tank those artillery shells.

[@stephenschroeder2141]

Rough job on that. There was a big cost to your weapons systems not being set up in time. But yah, FotS is some cool stuff.

[@krellio9006]

Valee mods is god's work now cannons can run

[@timbo9828]

I mod this game tons. AFAIK it's impossible to make artillery target center mass of units other than by luck. I have tried. All TW games have this edge-shooting behavior too. It can be diminished by making the unit less accurate in general so the individual artillery pieces do not all target the same edge.

[@LegendaryAbysss]

Wtf how did I miss this amazing video??

[@cesaralarcon5228]

I dreamt about this engine been made into another dlc for Shogun 2 for the Japanese invasion of Korea, or the Mongol Invasion like we got back in 1, on top of that I wished we got a ton of other historical games like set in the thirty years war, the Victorian era like some comments say, yeah it’s a complete pity that CA never dared to go back to that format, I salute the Modders for their literal carry of improving the game

[@TheSergentChaotix]

1000 kills on that one infanterie de marine, incredible.

[@baggelis_aikaterinis]

Guns gandalf . GUNS !

[@nicholasshaler7442]

Would you consider a return to making full campaign play throughs? I first watched your channel during the hype for Rome II, which was about a year after I started playing Rome I in high school. I have been watching again for about a month.

[@Volound]

appreciate the OGs but that is a dead format. takes loads of time to record and edit and render those and youtube totally suppresses them. the format got ruined by low skill players saturating youtube.

[@nicholasshaler7442]

@@Volound That is too bad. Some more campaign highlights would be nice, though. I liked this video.

[@TripleZHacker]

FOTS such a great experience~

[@Volound]

to think they even let us play base game and fots together in MP...

[@TripleZHacker]

@@Volound With Avatars too! How did we go from this to what we have with the current titles

[@key7817]

Fots is awsome but i feel like artillery is to strong and just dominates the later battles, also i would like that the aim/damage of the rifel units would be less or slower like in napoleon so meele would be more importent in the late game, i miss evvektiv bayonett charges =( , otherwise still the best total war today.

[@avavaviv1]

I didnt like how all cannons in FOS dont need line of sight. It makes the game easy compared to napoleon.

[@hundun5604]

Why is 'Fall of the Samurai' more popular than the base game or 'Rise of the Samurai'?

[@hnnggg5001]

volound, the announcer/advisor, do they also speak scottish?

[@cathulionetharn5139]

imma be real with you chief If dwarfs in warhammer 2 had skirmish cavalry this would be it especcially at the end, spaced out units out front to bait the ai into focusing them, packed line of range behind and artillery on whatever hill you can find to do the actual damage

[@Volound]

download BOTET for medieval 2. official warhammer is arcadey trash

[@cathulionetharn5139]

​@@Volound medieval 2 never clicked with me, stainless steel I had slightly more fun with, but peasants becoming unbreakable due to standing on a red square at the town centre and charging units stopping the charge because one guy got slightly ahead on some terrain blocker and hit the enemy 2 seconds earlier ruined any immersion I had. Than again maybe if this mod gets rid of the aging mechanic or massively nerfs it I could give it a shot. I'll see, thanks for the recommendation anyway.

[@wr0ng569]

@@cathulionetharn5139 If you haven't, do try BOTET, the amount of pike and shot strategies that are present in it is incredible. Gunpowder units have that OOMPH to them, not only in sound and look but also in the sheer power of volleys which combined with the medieval 2-style cavalry charges just creates a beautifully grim game.

[@Jeda_Tragumee]

Hey, Volound, what would your dream game be? Would it be kinda be like a combination of Manor Lords city building, Total War + Mount & Blade 2 Bannerlord battles and campaign, and CK3 like diplomacy? Or is it something else? Would you want a game, for example, that starts you off in the Early Modern Period from the 1600s and 1700s, with pike and shot warfare, and end up in the 20th or 21st Century, with modern warfare? You could include a general camera, like they did in Rome 1, or a 3rd person camera from M&B Bannerlord. We are talking about a "dream" game, so let your imagination run wild here. Let's say there are no limits, for example, you have a huge budget, or another example, you have an extremely good computer which can support your massive game, etc.

[@Volound]

a AAA version of the robz mod for MOWAS2

[@Jeda_Tragumee]

@@Volound Oh, okay! You like Men of War?! I had no idea 🤣🤣🤣 So you like something like Steel Division 2? Maybe I am being stupid because I saw Steel Division 2, but rarely ever saw Men of War 2. Correct me if I am wrong.

[@Volound]

basically the only game ive played for the past 3y.

[@Jeda_Tragumee]

@@Volound Fair enough!

[@King.Leonidas]

​@@VoloundSo basically gates of hell realism with them making there own engine and such. if you like RTT you should check out graviteam tactics it's hardcore though, with the temperature affecting the steel of your tanks

[@palacehaunter5442]

Hills are insane!

[@BrendanGilmartin]

I kind of object to the fact that ranged cavalry can all fire at once.

[@Volound]

its another problem that shouldve been patched. theres a possibility it is intended but that would be depressing.

[@BrendanGilmartin]

@@Volound 'All ranks fire' has been a thing in cavalry for as far as I can remember. [RTW1 for me] Cantabrian circle shooting has been an option in total war games but doing it makes little sense when the IRL logic is to allow you to get all of your cavalry to get a chance to shoot.

[@_ZimZam]

Empire but finished would be the best TW game

[@liaminwales]

Rise of the Samurai is still my fave, FOS is fun just I am less keen on the guns. Shogun 2 is still my fave TW game, still today it looks amazing. I also can see how much was cut, sadly I suspect TW will never go back to the old systems.

[@googleandsusansucks]

Ah, a fellow RotS enjoyer. It is a shame that the unit roster is so small. The revamped buildings and talent trees/tech trees always feels like a fresh wind. Some tech and talents were unpolished in Shogun 2 vanilla. Biggest example is the "warrior" side of a generals skill tree. Absolute useless skills since the generals bodyguard gets slaughtered by yari cavalry and yari ashigaru anyway.

[@thepizzafoogle5481]

A RotS fan? Wow, didn't know you guys existed.

[@MK-rc3pq]

I play little to no guns in S2, but I do just love the sound and feel of FotS Artillery and Infantry...and then there is the music as well. The mix of marching music mixed with "traditional" japanese sounds...so good! RotS I personally didnt enjoy as much as the other two but good to see its getting love as well!! :)

[@tenchimuyo69]

Victoria Total War never

[@nicg1331]

Fall of the Samurai is excellent and may well be the high point of the series.

[@MBP1918]

RIP

[@enoughrope1638]

I'm expecting CA to update shogun 2 and make it less playable just to spite you because you have gotten under their skins so much xD

[@davidmarjanovic4593]

lol @volound pls make an economy tutorial wtf is that income

[@Volound]

geishas with 15 skill in "entertaining nobles" and grouping them in the economic hubs. towns with 5000 growth.

[@thepizzafoogle5481]

@@Volound Damn that's a lot of money, didn't know OnlyFans existed in the 1800s

[@Jeda_Tragumee]

Volound, if there is ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING you would fix about Warhammer 3, what would it be? Or is WH3 just too shit to be saved?

[@Volound]

i dont play shit games and couldnt care less about that abortion.

[@Jeda_Tragumee]

@@Volound Okie dokie.

[@jimbones5484]

Just remove single hero units, spells, health points, hidden stats, and add in actual guns, combat, and a non retarded ai.

[@jimbones5484]

Soyhammer Vs. Shogun 2 -Mechanics: Shogun 2 -Visuals: shogun 2 -Gameplay: Shogun 2 -Kino gore: Shogun 2 -consoomer soyboy fanbase: Gayhammer -Larping spergs in community: Gayhammer -peepee poopoo monsters which serve no qctual purpose aside from looking cool and scary: Gayhammer Shogun 2 wins: low difference

[@Volound]

best comment on the entire video so far.

[@jimbones5484]

@Volound BOTET (true warhammer) Vs. CA's gay poopy pseudo-rpg that veils itself as a legitimate RTT -gameplay: BOTET -accuracy to tabletop: BOTET -meaningful and engaging gameplay: BOTET -artstyle: BOTET -cringe Mary Sue tier dlc lords and units: Gayhammer -bullshit stats: Gayhammer -corny: Gayhammer Botet wins: low difference

[@myaccountgothackedgoogledo7571]

Look their game and community is so shit, they are nothing but a bunch of consoomer fanboy spergs! Why would anyone want to associate with the gaysoyhammers! Then people wonder why the moment people dip their toes into the older historical titles, go look at their communities they get a bad impression and leave.

[@phantomjoker5]

🫡

[@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen]

👏🙂

[@user-ll9tv8nl3w]

well, Warhammer is better, but that's to be expected as TWW is much more modern game

[@Volound]

warhammer is a dogshit DLC pipeline and even former and current developers of TW have been acknowledging it over the past several months.

[@user-ll9tv8nl3w]

It is. And it is still better@@Volound

[@Volound]

absolutely not. the gameplay speaks for itself. everyone admits warhammer is shit now.@@user-ll9tv8nl3w

[@captainnyet9855]

I cannot think of much the WH games do better than FotS even with the almost 10 year gap. Visually TW games have barely improved since NTW; just higher res textures as hardware increses but almost no real improvements; FotS looked impressive at the time. Modern TW games do not. Mechanically they have taken so many steps back with Rome 2 that they still have not come close to recovering the same level of depth we had in S2. Only thing TW got a lot better at is taking the money of gullible consumers; they did develop that to perfection.

[@Pagokeraunos]

I got scammed when I bought WH2. I thought I was buying a Total War game but in a fantasy setting. Ok cool why not. What I got was an arcade game with "Games Workshop TM" toylike models, no tactical depth gameplay, no family trees, 0 AI improvements and the worst sieges in the history of TW.