The Perfect Basic Off Road Standing Position - Mini-Tip Monday

[@bradb2514]

Never before have I watched such a creative and well done explanation. I’m a novice rider and this really helps me get a setting going forward. Thanks.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Glad you liked it!

[@martynlaverick3405]

As a novice off road rider I find you vids brilliant and very easy to follow. Keep up the brilliant work and thank you!

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thanks Martyn. Kind words. I will try!

[@jasonp1319]

Among the clearest and most helpful content on KZbin. Really well done.

[@nihvl]

Glad to have you back

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thanks Nihal!

[@mdr_random]

Great video thanks - always glad to see new content. Living in the UK and doing the odd green lane I would really like to see a series on green laning technique (as opposed to "off road riding") and how a newbie gains confidence. You may say it's the same but green lanes are public roads open to all and there could be more to consider. My two cents: No one is probably jetting off to Spain for a week's riding at the moment with lockdown and I never would anyway. Many newbies aren't going to have the confidence to ride to Wales for medium/hard technical off roading. I think there is a gap in KZbin content for the casual and opportunistic green laner who passes that UK road sign stating "Unsuitable for motor vehicles" and thinks... "Ooo, hello!" (That's the opening shot to the video). However, having seen that road sign thoughts of what if the front end slides out and how do I save that?, or what if the mud is too thick, or the ruts are too deep?, or how to I turn around on a narrow path if it gets too much?, can enter your mind and you may bail on the idea and ride on missing a chance to improve. How about getting an Explorer OS map for a nearby town/city; picking a short lane (newbies are happy with yards not miles); show what a simple day pack looks like; pack and prepare the bike and yourself; go there and show how to ride through a rutted lane in slick yet sticky mud (it's autumn in the UK after all! :o) and how you should position yourself as a newbie to gain confidence (lean forwards, lean back, weight the outside peg, etc). If you can string a few lanes together in one day or do different videos - great. Regarding "perfect basic off road standing position": I can put my bike on its stand and straddle it all day long with a mirror to check lines, but when I'm crashing along at a mere 5mph getting my arms banged around in the ruts - going too slow to balance - all that has gone out the window and I'm more likely to whisky throttle into the nearest dry stone wall (ask me how I know)! It's OK setting up things on private land in advance and staging something but you'll not have dog walkers coming the other way making you nervous and then wobbling off into the hedgerow. I'm sure you have lots of ideas but I thought I'd throw out something I'd like to see. All the best!

[@arthurhughes8659]

I've gotten into the habit of watching your off-road standing position videos before heading out on an off-road ride, and they are really helping me. Thank You!!!

[@arthurhughes8659]

If you haven't already done it, an additional video on this subject specifically on setting the brake and clutch position (in regards to handle bars) would be really helpful. The off-road areas I ride are hilly/ mountainous, and my wrists get tired trying to maintain a pre-loaded hand position --- which I need in order to mitigate my speed.

[@jamesonpace726]

Yay! More Brake Mag! Was a-feared you were no mo... Luv ya like a brother, man.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thanks dude!

[@caldeirone]

I make Jameson's words mine! Really glad you're back Llel!

[@florianalexander9183]

Much better than the old version. Thank you very much!

[@BrakeMagazine]

No problemo Florian!

[@stasysfilmslimited]

Awesome tips, on point, clear visuals, explanation! Subbed and thank you! Dirt Bike Newbie 🏍

[@SCORPASRULE]

Long live the mini tip Mondays, awesome video Llew . 👊🏻✊🏻👊🏻✊🏻

[@BrakeMagazine]

Glad you liked Mark! 😁

[@oli-no-way]

Nice to see you again 👍👍👍

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thanks!

[@joernlindstaedt7731]

Thanks Llewellyn for this easy to understand/remember basic tutorial 👍🏼 Greetings from 🥨🍻

[@BrakeMagazine]

You're welcome!

[@nawiribrahim]

Happy to see you back.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thanks!

[@galuhrichata6148]

Good video & explanation.. modified version of motocross attack position, but still same basics: slightly bend knees, toes in, elbows out, knees squeezing the bike, foot placement, hands position.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Honestly, it's the same position. I come from a racing background and nothing changes. The bikes get bigger, the riding position more relaxed but technique is the same.

[@galuhrichata6148]

@@BrakeMagazine Awesome.. please make more videos like this...👍🏼👍🏼

[@marthinusvorster]

Head position is great teaching. Thanks!

[@bpannier]

I am glad you bringing the things together so well, as usual. Some of the things you mention I would improve: Having your feet in the middle of the footpegs has two disadvantages, first is when you jump (accidentally can always happen) you risk to put your ankles under way too much stress, risk to loose control or even break them. Second is having your feet not over the control levers you bring restlessness in your bike everytime you move your feet forward and backward. It is true having them over the controls might can cause issues when you land a jump intentionally. In this case you are anyway a much better rider - for just good riders this usually not matters. The second is you dont show how to bend your back to reach the right elbow position. Legs as you showed (stand on the motorbike like you would stand on the ground) and bend the back forward let you reach much better the right "aggressive" angle of your elbows. This needs body tension in your lower back and will create aching on the next day until your back built the muscles. With having these muscles you are much more stable and can react much more on what happens under you. Also you will have much more freedom with your hands. How do you grab your handlebars could be explained much more in detail, you show a great picture of the right position of the hands. Also you could mention that at all time you should be able to let the handlebar go. You should not grab the handlebar so that you get blow in your hands or even a cramp. If you do not feel all the time that you can "play piano" on your handlebars you hold them too tight. To be able to grab them loose you need your back in the right angle.

[@paulfenn5060]

Agreed. I've also been moving my body more forward over the front end to save on arm pump and hand fatigue during hard accel. Once you get it right it's amazing how loosely you can grip the bars. It takes practice and concentration, and if your bike has lots of engine braking like my big LC8, you have to decel smoothly or bad days can result.

[@patrickperron792]

As in motocross, your legs are your largest muscles, use them to grab the bike thight WHILE letting it move freely underneath you. Yours hands should be relaxed and you won't feel arm pump.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Hey Benjamin, Firstly, thanks for the huge comment. You've raised some good points and I'll try to answer them coherently. I think regarding the foot position, I don't quite agree. You do risk putting you ankles under stress, but that's why you should be wearing good boots. Our ankles are strong and mx style boots are even stronger. In my opinion, our position should be right because that's got the biggest chance of minimising mistakes. I love the adage "Start in a good position, end up in a good position. Start in a bad position, end up in a bad position." It was coined by legendary motocross rider Ryan Hughes and I think he's completely correct. On the same lines, good foot position, with the peg between the arch and ball of your foot, is about good human movement above all else. It simply lets your lower body work better and having to move your feet slightly to change gear or use the brake is negligible compared to the added control and strength you gain. I also don't believe that teaching something reductive to simpler riders is a healthy habit because you only end up re-teaching new things down the line. Regarding the back bend, I don't bend my back. My back is and should always be completely flat with any hinging solely from the hips. I agree about the lower back muscles hurting form tight quads and weak lower back. Lastly, hands. You're right. Hands should be super loose in the basic position :)

[@BrakeMagazine]

Totally Paul! It'll be interesting for to watch the next video. it might help a little with the braking/engine braking thing :)

[@BrakeMagazine]

Absolutely Patrick. However, it's a little more nuanced, especially on a big bike.

[@simemo75]

Was missing your mini-tip videos. Nice one to re-start with. Spot on👌

[@BrakeMagazine]

More to come!

[@Advcrazy]

Love this stuff! I have some experience riding Adv bikes off road but I’ve never been taught, just figured it out myself. Nice to actually know what I’m doing right so I can figure out the pats I’m doing wrong

[@BrakeMagazine]

Glad it helps James!!

[@adaptableadventurerider]

absolutely brilliant video :) thanks for sharing looking forward to implementing this next time I'm out did my first full green lane last week an it was so much fun.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Glad it was helpful!

[@zzxx33mh]

Yes, willcome back,,.more better edits, Much thanks.. Bro.. 🙏

[@BrakeMagazine]

No problem!

[@jerseyjeeper1575]

Glad you’re still here mate.

[@masaoyamada4053]

Glad to see new videos. I really appreciate it and learn something new. Greetings from Mexico 🤙🏻

[@BrakeMagazine]

Glad you like them!

[@David.W99]

Great video. Thanks!

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thanks!

[@rtwt7487]

I've struggled with this for a long time but you explained it so well I'm sure I'll improve the next time I go out. Thanks for making this video.

[@dominiqueroumieh9260]

Welcome back ☺️ You were missed with these videos man

[@BrakeMagazine]

Glad dude!

[@neildxb]

Nicely made video, thanks! Great to have mini top Monday back :)

[@BrakeMagazine]

Glad you like it!

[@UnleadedApe]

Good to see you back :)

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thanks!

[@mrbjay5443]

This was a very needed video for some of us city boys hahahaha. Thank you!

[@sankguy]

Waited so long for mini tip

[@BrakeMagazine]

:D

[@0HARE]

Thanks for the solid information. I’m planning to get more into off-road riding, so, I appreciate your channel a lot. Go For It

[@SamihAdly]

I am getting my new GSA very soon and I ve never done any off road riding. This video is extremely useful. I live in Egypt. So, I ll mainly ride in desert, sand amd dunes and I guess this technique is the way to start

[@axelfiraxa]

Hello. Are you still alive riding a GSA in sand? :)) all the best though!

[@DJAguitars]

Bar risers are the key 🔑👌😄

[@BrakeMagazine]

🤣🤣

[@BikesCameraAdventure]

Nicely done!!

[@gregnoel5366]

Now that was pretty cool. Thanks mate.

[@BrakeMagazine]

No problem Greg!

[@oldguzziguy]

Thank you. Very clear.

[@BrakeMagazine]

You're welcome Barry! Thanks for watching.

[@dunes2dust216]

Great explanation and video, thanks. Looking forward to next part. I ride with my heals down and foot position as mentioned even though a number of coaches have pushed different techniques. It just feels natural and I fall back to it.

[@BrakeMagazine]

I've seen those videos 🤣🤣🤣

[@beaunaro]

Very good! Thank you.

[@BrakeMagazine]

You're welcome!

[@scintilladesign4187]

Good Podcast boys, maybe get Chappy on to share his wheelie skilks? 😊

[@damienford3587]

Great stuff Really. Thank you... Damien

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thank for watching Damien!

[@damienford3587]

@@BrakeMagazine hope to spend some time with you in the New Year!

[@majauskasmr]

nice to see you back :) video quality is way up (y)

[@BrakeMagazine]

Thanks!

[@chrisnorthover7582]

Really nice video dude, well explained and presented. Plus @5:47 is the most I’ve ever seen #51 move around on a bike 😂.

[@BrakeMagazine]

🤣🤣🤣 That's what instruction does 🤣

[@violjohn]

Thanks so much for this!

[@BrakeMagazine]

You're welcome John!

[@JamesLG4]

I admire you guys that can ride for extended periods of time with your heels down like that. I have no idea what is right or wrong and wouldn’t argue either way but I’m not aware of any athletic stance that puts all the body weight on the heels.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Mountain biking is an identical riding position. In reality when you're on the pegs your weight is quite even through the boot but it's also one of the benefits of MX boots having stiff soles :)

[@lessmore444]

Exactly, my heels down position from mountain biking transfers over to being the default position on the moto

[@BrakeMagazine]

​@jeffrt11 From the sound of it Jeff we're doing the same thing and describing it differently. Your weight isn't back and that's not what I mean. It's down through the pegs, with the pegs just behind the balls of your feet exactly as you sid.

[@dougmonte4965]

Very good

[@alistairl]

Thanks Llel (and Simon ;))

[@BrakeMagazine]

No problem 🤣

[@alistairl]

@@BrakeMagazine Simon was very quiet - is he ok? :P

[@michaelsupple6081]

I'll be looking forward to future videos on this subject. My issue is when accelerating. I've seen the Chris Birch videos where he seems to hinge at the waist with arch in the back and arse in the air. I've also seen some advocate standing tall with hips very much forward. Very much look forward to your point of view. Love Brake Magazine.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Chris Birch is right. Anyone who says standing more upright is better isn't sorry.

[@axelfiraxa]

​@@BrakeMagazineto that point, standing upright and accelerating just makes you feel like falling straight off the bike. So does standing straight up and breaking. Some things are just kinetically wrong with no need for scientific proof

[@BrakeMagazine]

@@axelfiraxa I agree. That's why you need hinge in the middle and lean into the acceleration. I made a video about this with Lucy :)

[@paulfenn5060]

The droopy ankle stance nearly cost me a pair of busted ankles when I went off a big jump and landed hard on my 950SE. After that, I moved my feet a little more forward to transfer that force up through my legs, where it can be absorbed by my knees and body. I don't think I gave up anything in terms of comfort or control.

[@BrakeMagazine]

This is an interesting comment Paul! Can you tell me more? I'm interested how it would've been better if you didn't flex at the ankle? How does not flexing still let you maintain a lower centre of gravity?

[@paulfenn5060]

​@@BrakeMagazine I'm still flexing at my ankles, just not as much as before. That way, the impact from hard landings does not bend them to the point of risking damage to the ankle joint (I'm about 220lbs fully atgatt'd). The fix was a matter of sliding both feet forward on the Fastways no more than an inch. I'd guess my foot pivot point switched to somewhere just behind the centre of the peg. After that incident, I taught myself to stand that way when doing lots of jumps. As I got better at jumps and had more frequent hard landings, I just stayed with it for all riding. Ankle-wise, I'm still loose-ish, just not hanging down off the rear edge of the peg quite as much as you demo in the vid. I might give up some low COG benefit, but have been getting and better at handling this 450lb bike in the year or so since I altered foot position, so it seems not to affect much. I also try to keep both knees pressed into the tank and both feet as close to the bike as possible (in spite of the Mobius braces pushing knees outward), which gives great leverage for body and foot steering, drifting and quick-dodging sudden obstacles. My biggest problem is my size 13 feet sticking out like a pair of outriggers on a salmon trawler! Folding them in straight actually messes with my knees. Interestingly, this did not result in me doing a 180 to my foot when I crashed a couple months ago at around 35mph when the front tube exploded on impact with an unseen babyhead. I lost all tire pressure (33psi) and steering in about a second, went down hard and fast on my ride side in softish damp mud. Bike landed hard on my right ankle and pinned it. I tweaked that ankle, but the Sidi Crossfire saved it from breakage. Otherwise, no injuries. So I'm not so worried anymore when my feet aren't pointing dead ahead. I've also stopped airing down; using the 90/10 Desert HT rear and C21 front mitigate that slight loss of traction nicely.

[@RideLikeAChamp]

It is almost impossible hingle the left heel on BMW GSA 1250 without getting your heel caught in the folded center stand which is not confidence inspiring, so wondering if you have a solution to overcome the problem without removing center stsnd for offroad riding

[@durl1963]

What are your thoughts on pivot pegs and how they impact the weight through the heels as I can drop my heels even lower than with standard pegs

[@bikenavbm1229]

superb video and presentation. I bust my ankle pretty bad off a jump landing too, somewhere that you know very well too, nearly cost me my leg. Very heavy landing unsure of my foot position at that moment, but one thing I can pass on, I was riding AXO MX boots but with a busted strap, never will know, but wont do that again, dont do jumps anymore either really.... Any chance of a tutorial for riding sand, on in my case loaded GS12, ridden unloaded 640 in Merzouga - no probs and loved it, ridden Enduro too, struggled when I rode a little in East of England back in the summer down hill as well on the lightly loaded GS, never really had the bottle to wind it up enough, I was solo, are the basic princeples the same. I understand the difficulties of finding a location locally, There were a couple we used to go but not viable anymore. If an opportunity presents would be much appreciated. Diolch.

[@BrakeMagazine]

That's terrible to hear! We'll do a sand tutorial at some point. It's tricky on a bike, especially with a 19-inch wheel. All of those things make it really tricky! You're right about wales with sandy locations. The best bet close to us is northern France/Belguim or Scotland. I think you don't need to ride fast to get through well :)

[@timphoto83ec]

Just found your vids and have subscribed. Id like to ask a question about when to stand. I m only new to off road and find that ill stand when things get technical and i feel the need otherwise ill sit or perhaps hover just off the seat through a rough patch. When watching vids of others though its almost like a rule than when on dirt on a big ADV bike then you stand. Dirt bike riders dont stand all the time so whats your take on that? Cheers Tim

[@BrakeMagazine]

I'd suggest you go watch our standing position basics video. That will answer a lot of questions. You don't need to stand all the time but if you stand properly you'll have a lot more control of the bike, in simple terms. The design of a dirt bike is really different. The weight of them and the size of the seat mean sitting is a really effective tool. Also, if you watch most enduro, mx or Rally riders, they do stand a lot of the time, especially when attempting technical riding. ADV bikes don't allow the same sitting position as an off road bike and therefore you can't have the same control. Hence the standing. If you stand well, you'll stand all the time.

[@broncosauer6006]

I suppose that tall riders will need to install bar raisers, correct? Very nice o video BTW...

[@BrakeMagazine]

Nope. Bar risers have their place for very tall people and if you want comfort but they're a crutch. You can find the a very balanced, perfect riding position on any bike at any height. I'm 6"2 and run everything stock. Plenty of very well know tall riders run lower handlebars. If you're looking to risers to solve a problem, it's best to go back to figuring out what the problem is and what the causes is. It's also better to use taller handlebars or move the bar clamps forward. Handlebar risers significantly change how your hands interact with the bars and how the bike responds and not in a good way :)

[@maciejmaciej1718]

How do you maintain a stable position when breaking? When I stand up and break I struggle to maintain my balance -I'm being thrown forward.

[@BrakeMagazine]

Move your bum backward. Watch our advanced riding position video for info on that 🙂

[@TozlutekerAnadolu]

Hello, why don't you watch with Turkish subtitles? Thank you for the videos.

[@Nitzaplays]

I just started riding off-road on my KTM 1190 ADV and I'm quite enjoying it, but I have problems with my lower back - after a kilometer or two pain is almost unbearable that I have to for a while or stop and rest. Any tips on that? I'm quite tall at 197cm, lowered my footpegs by 15mm and raised my handlebars by 30mm but it didn't help that much. I feel like I'm slouching a lot while standing

[@BrakeMagazine]

I don't knownfo sure but do ever do any stretching or Yoga? This is a really common cause of that.

[@RajRideStories]

Very good video for a person like me who is new to off road and keen to learn techniques, appreciate if you can make of these kind of videos. #RajRideStories

[@BrakeMagazine]

Glad you like it Raj!

[@wheelieking333]

CAN YOU TELLME WHAT TYRES YOU USE PLEASE,LOOKING TO DO A BIT OF OFF ROAD ON MY GS BUT NEED A TYRE THAT WILL ALSO DO TARMAC

[@BrakeMagazine]

Metzeler Karoo 3.

[@murraycharters6102]

I own a 2017 VStrom 650. I am 76 years old and ride a Lot. I always stand up and ride through towns to give my hips a rest . I do have Arthritis in the right hip, and standing up for short periods keeps me going by changing the position of my hips. I live I Queensland Australia . I have not been able to find out if it is legal to ride on road standing up. I expect I will get pulled over by a Cop one day, and I would like to know where I stand on this issue. I am very comfortable with standing up and riding in full control, however I must admit the rear view mirrors become useless. Would appreciate advise from any rider in Australia who can throw some light on this issue.

[@BrakeMagazine]

I'm not a lawyer so it's hard to know where you stand. It wouldn't be hard to argue that you are still in control in court but I can imagine that might be complicated in the moment. I haven't heard of anyone being pulled over for it however!

[@gasdive]

I've tried the droopy heels, but I find it very tiring and unstable. I end up on the balls of my feet. I feel like I can grip more easily, and I'm "springy", able to absorb jumps a lot easier. Further back I get bounced off the pegs and lose grip. They try to get you to do the same on horses, but I get the same result, when the horse trots I have no give in the foot, I lose grip on the stirrups and they move back and forth randomly.

[@BrakeMagazine]

So i would suggest two things. If you're one the balls of your feet, you're too far back. This is a subtle change from normal. Secondly, getting bucked comes from the legs not the foot position. Generally it means you need a touch more bend in your knees, but just a touch and you may need to bend more as you hit small bumps. 🙂

[@gasdive]

@@BrakeMagazine thanks! That actually makes sense! I'll try it out on the weekend. Cheers!

[@TM-lw8wn]

I dont get it yet, when I stand, should I be on my feet?

[@henrikforsberg683]

It’s hard to stand on your butt.. 😂

[@ELGOOGUOYKCUF]

i didn't know that Gary Barlow rides motorcycles...

[@BrakeMagazine]

I do.

[@doptimist2087]

I find it difficult to shift gear while standing, as i get disbalance

[@BrakeMagazine]

Practice on the centre stand. :)

[@SaveAmerica1-pz2xg]

Lots of little things moving in lots of little ways

[@themosaito]

Hey Llel, what are your thoughts on bar risers? I have a coach who says they are BS, that top riders don't use them, but he comes from a motorcross background, rather than an adventure bike background, and his riding stance is always a little more aggressive, and bent more at the waist. Thanks!

[@BrakeMagazine]

This is a great question! It kinda comes down to what you are looking to achieve. In regards to having the best balance of your body and relationship with your bike, for the most part I agree with him but it does't mean they don't have a place. They essentially increase your centre of gravity, make you more upright and alter your interaction with the handlebars. All of those carry consequences that make the bike handle more awkwardly and make it harder for you to stay balanced BUT, if you're okay with those consequences and want more comfort then sure, go for it. I do believe that if you're shorter than 6'3" (190cm)+ you don't need them and before you add them, make sure your position and movement is good. Also, start with small risers rather than the 30mm ones :)

[@chrisssinstockholm]

@@BrakeMagazine The question is not really if bar risers are good or bad. It's about geometry. The 790 Adv bars are rather low without risers. The T7 bars are higher. I use risers on my 790 Adv R.

[@JOA-S]

Me: riding my GS offroad, alone. Also Me: Help i've Fallen and i can't get up! JK, i don't have a GS :(

[@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse]

The 1200 GS actually only falls as far as the header {or its guard} so is easier to get from under and to pick up than most other bikes of a similar size

[@chamade166]

RIP tall riders…even with handlebar risers it’s a struggle.

[@goldenchild4835]

Enjoying the channel, many thanks for the tips. Have been following Bret Tkacs for a couple of years. He has a clip about "weightless riding" in the standing position. Just trying to reconcile the two. Is yours about the basics and Bret's about a more advanced version of the technique? Appreciate any feedback. cheers kzbin.info/www/bejne/jojKl3Rso9RooZY

[@BrakeMagazine]

Hey, I went back and rewatched the video to remind myself. I like Brett's videos and the idea of what he is saying is good. Looking for a weightless position is right, but the way Brett rides and talks about the way we should move, I don't agree with. You'll notice in his explanation and his riding technique throughout the video his knees move forward a lot and his toes drop, especially when going over bumps. When he talks about pivoting at the hips it's actually his ankles that move and that puts a lot of weight on the bars. That's not how you pivot at the hips. I explain this much more in the next MTM but his explanation isn't really right. The riding position is very different to this one. His way uses a much higher centre of gravity, much smaller muscles in your legs and provides a very limited range of motion. Ultimately Brett has a different technique to me. I would say that my technique is very 'classical' dirt bike derived style and while I'm not as good, it's similar to that of Chris Birch and most people from that background. I hope that answers your question and thanks so much for the comment 🙂

[@goldenchild4835]

@@BrakeMagazine OK many thanks for the response. I'll have another look @ both. Looking forward to your next post.

[@jaynewhite2878]

Nonsense

[@simulacrae]

Question from the rest of the world,, what the fuck is ”the ball of your foot”? Feet don’t have balls.