The Philosophy of Amon and Communism in Avatar

[@HelloFutureMe]

My point is not the writers didn't allude to communism with Amon. My critique is that pretending it's a 1:1 allegory is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole: of COURSE it's going to yield bad criticism when there is a lot to evidence both in the text itself (ie. purity) and evidence outside the text that the writers were not THAT misinformed about communism and what it means, and that they meant something else. Many stories have suddenly become "bad allegories" for real-world things because they were never meant to be read as those allegories - meaning of course you draw bizarre thematic conclusions. I've got a video studying character descriptions coming soon! If you'd like to see it early and support the channel >>> www.patreon.com/hellofutureme Stay nerdy, Tim

[@pyeitme508]

Ok

[@joshuam772]

Looking forward to it :)

[@understorymainchannel8326]

Cool

[@michaellewis1545]

Cue the Tolkien quote about allegory and applicability.

[@andreas8488]

To be honest I thought that Kuvira was the closets to representing Communism or the closest to the Chinese Communist Party. The forceful takeover and expansion, destroying the monarchy and being a dictator.

[@morganstiefvater2019]

That "you're our Avatar too" line is something I desperately wish was focused on more.

[@alyseleem2692]

Agreed. Any suggestions?

[@GeorgeThoughts]

@@alyseleem2692 a further Avatar series could maybe focus again on the bender vs non-bender dynamic as their world moves further away from the elemental conflicts with the coming together of the nations. Perhaps non-benders need more representation! As Tim says, the council has a representative of each nation/element and they're all benders. Perhaps they need a representative who isn't a bender, to hold them accountable for power which benefits benders the most. We saw more of it in Korra with Amon's crew, but I'd love to see more of the world to do with non-benders. How could they develop strategies to combat benders in combat, for example. Or even a story from the PoV of a non-bender to truly see how they see benders. Maybe they don't see them favourably!

[@alyseleem2692]

@@GeorgeThoughts SPOILERS! Sadly, they did away with that in LOK. We've got President Raiko,first president of the United Republic and a nonbender. He's not a good ruler,and his character isn't explored. There's also Firelord Izumi,who appears only once. The revolution is barely ever mentioned, with no consequences in sight.

[@alyseleem2692]

@@GeorgeThoughts As for combat, we got platinum mechs,chi blocking ,general martial arts,glorified tasers,some guy with electric kali sticks and a big mustache ( he ded. 😥),WWII style bombers and so on.

[@alyseleem2692]

@@GeorgeThoughts If your suggestions are to come to fruition,we need a rewrite.

[@dionadair8195]

I’m surprised you didn’t notice (or at least mention) the Japanese Empire aesthetic that the Equalist banners were channeling.

[@HelloFutureMe]

I had it in the original script. Just didn't make the cut in the end.

[@Liliquan]

Well given that it isn’t a 1 to 1 allegory...... why bother bringing it up? I mean, it clearly was not objectively meant to be read that way and I know that for sure. So.....

[@lainiwakura1776]

They did that with Ozai and the Fire Nation already.

[@theguywithsomething8634]

@@lainiwakura1776 That's because it can actually be applied to Ozai and the fire nation. Given that it's an eastern inspired show, visual reflections will be present, yes, but is there more to be said beyond that?

[@paloncito1158]

@@HelloFutureMe I thought Amon was more of a fascist especially because he is named after a nazi. Also the flag and the first scene we saw him reminds me of the swastika and hitlers speech

[@fourcatsandagarden]

"most of these are aesthetic rather than ideological similarities" - there are so many people who can't differentiate between those two things.

[@marshmallowvampire8503]

Yeah, like Hillbilly Elegy. It wasn't political, but because it was giving the audience a closer look at broken families and individuals rather than people groups, Rotten Tomatoes pretended it was toxic.

[@jasonschuler2256]

@@marshmallowvampire8503 How many times do I have to say this: Rotten Tomatoes literally justs compiles reviews of critics. They do not "decide" or "pretend" anything.

[@Xitoshi]

Up to what point is that the audience fault for not understanding, and the author's fault for not being clearer about their intentions?

[@jasonschuler2256]

@@Xitoshi Certainly a difficult question. I don't think it's possible for such a definite point to be established. I think it's on a case-by-case basis. That being said, a large portion of the audience seeing red and gold and a vaguely Stalin inspired poster and going "IT'S COMMUNISM!!" while ignoring all the *MASSIVE* textual differences between Amon's ideology and Communism is 100% the fault of the audience for not understanding.

[@sateleim]

facism is mostly aesthetics

[@dvklaveren]

I really wanted Amon to remain an existential threat in the background. Imagine Amon VS the Red Lotus. Wasted opportunity.

[@KevinACarroll1996]

Or maybe Amon AND the Red Lotus! It could work, if only for a temporary alliance.

[@isleep2dream762]

@@KevinACarroll1996 The Red Lotus wanted pure Anarchy, and destruction of major organisation. The Equalists wanted bending to be a non-issue, to destroy the rampant abuse of bending over non-benders. They both are villains for political reasons, but come from completely different places. Maybe some equalists would have some Red Lotus ideals, maybe a member of the Red Lotus may contemplate Equalist solutions, but for the most part they would most likely be hostile to each other. Still, the thought of Amon fighting the Red Lotus just sounds way too cool.

[@KevinACarroll1996]

@@isleep2dream762 I think they would at least get along temporarily in some instances because they have so many common enemies. The avatar and rulers of the nations are enemies they both share. I don't know how the Equalists would feel about working with murderers though. But yeah, Amon trying to take on all 4 main members of the Red Lotus would be awesome to watch!

[@Drake00000010]

@@KevinACarroll1996 I disagree. Amon is too OP. Bloodbending shuts down anyone unless your the Avatar.

[@KevinACarroll1996]

@@Drake00000010 That's a good point. I forgot that it was shown to work on an entire room of people. I was thinking that 4 powerful benders could resist, but definitely not after showing what Yakone was capable of.

[@mikesrewrites1324]

"Just because of the rushed writing of the 12 episode season" FINALLY! Someone points out the lack of breathing room in those 12 episodes. That was a problem that I wished more people would realize.

[@alenasenie6928]

i think that season should have been two seasons, having the bad guy of the season is kinda like having the bad guy of the week in other shows

[@f_f_f_8142]

An explanation does not make it better and they still wasted a lot of screentime on nostalgia and the love triangle for example. Just compare the introduction of characters to ATLA: it sets up the world and the main conflict in one minute with the special intro and then all the 1st tier characters in the following 10 minutes. Even if it is contrived we jump directly from Katara and Sokka squabbling and finding Aang to Zuko explaining that he needs to capture the Avatar to regain his honor and Iroh trying to calm him down. And then they all interact. If ATLA was like TLOK Aang would just pick up Katara on a trip to the north pole to find a teacher and then somewhere in the 5th episode would they randomly run into Zuko.

[@battybuddy]

>_> they MIGHt have more breathing room if they didn't keep doing the whole love triangle... ... just saying...

[@andrewdiaz3529]

@@battybuddy The Corporate Ordered Love Triangle?

[@danielr3149]

To be fair, they had forever to plan TLA and made the same mistake. TLA's all about Taoism and there being some good in evil and vice-versa -- but Ozai, Zhao, and Long Feng all turned out to be absolute evils (and pretty cliched villains, especially Ozai). The mistakes Tim points out in this video are the same mistakes these writers have been making since the beginning.

[@AgentofChaos315]

Do you think in the Avatar universe there's a political philosophy Amonism and politicians for decades to come accuse their opponents of being Amonists?

[@alyseleem2692]

Probably yes. It'll take time to forget him.

[@michaelsayavong2656]

I actually think that Amonism could become a lasting ideology in the avatar world. But overtime will develop into separate branches based on different interpretations. Like real life ideologies. Although I think equalism would be a better name. For example: Orthodox Equalism - hardcore equalist, who believe a violent revolution and overthrowing the benders, is the only way to equality. Prioritize aggressive propaganda, agitation, and open confrontation. Aka: Amonist Equalism Reformist Equalism - believe in achieving equality for non benders, via legal & legitimate means . Like voting for laws in favor of non benders, and boycotting ones against them. Wants to promote the idea of non-bender class conscious. Aka: Equalism with fire nation characteristics Industrial Equalism - wants to achieve equality with mass industrialization & technological advancement. Believe that though modernization non benders could potentially even the playing field. Popular with non bender majority labor unions Aka: Hiroshi Sato thought / Satoist Equalism National Equalism- believe that for the revolution to be achieved requires a centralized authority. Namely making a new nation for non benders. Want to solidify power first with in a localized area, seeing reckless expansion as damaging the cause. Aka: Equalism in one country Red Equalism- combining equalism with aspects of red lotus philosophy. Argue that inequality is a product of unjust hierarchies/authority. Believing that benders not only benefit, but perpetrated this system. Questions the idea of both state & benders authority. Aka: Anarcho equalism Edit: Possible names for an equalist country in avatar, either the union of equalist republics or just the equalist union.

[@AgentofChaos315]

@@michaelsayavong2656 I was just making a joke about Marxism and how socialism is a boogeyman.

[@lucascurio8345]

@@michaelsayavong2656 That could be a real interesting exploration of the themes amon brings up. I personally believe that amon was kinda right that non-benders are exploited and shut out of society but i would be as you put it a 'reformist equalist', using similar methods to the real life civil rights movement.

[@malaineeward5249]

I started world building for an Avatar from a nonbending Earth Kingdom village that still held the feelings of LoK B1

[@Disthron]

I really fealt like the Amon story line would have benefited hugely form being extended over the course of the whole show. Like what they did in the original Air Bender show. Just my opinion.

[@sskpsp]

The creators specifically wanted to to do it this way to tackle more political ideologies outside their bubble. Idk what the second season was supposed to be though, eco-fascism?

[@Michael-wz2es]

I think the effects of season 1 should've been more apparent in season 2,it would help season 1 feel less different from the others 1st season is very political, the start of the 2nd is as well then it changes to spirits and the rest are very political as well

[@Disthron]

​@@sskpsp When they made the first season, they didn't know they were going to get a second season. So they tried to make it a self contained story and I think that's a big reason it feels so rushed.

[@sskpsp]

@@Disthron Ah that's true, but I feel like there is also an element holding over from ATLA where the political moral pushed by the writers is not really justified fully, just kinda put out there and it happens because the writers want it to... Like Aang training for 3 seasons to master being the Avatar and fight the Fire Lord then suddenly he doesn't want to be violent, rejects all the lore of previous Avatars, then meets a lion turtle who supersedes the titular Avatar and the four-element-bending with spirit-bending just so the writers didn't have to make Aang kill the Fire Lord.

[@courtneyrose5507]

I'm pretty sure the first season is like it is because they were only originally given one season so the story of it was wrapped up in case they didn't get any more seasons

[@princesseuphemia1007]

While watching the first season of Korra I always wondered how the story would have played out if instead of Amon being able to take people's bending away, he were able to GIVE bending to non-benders.

[@g.davidturnblom5751]

Well said. Unfortunately, dictators too often consider themselves 'honor bound' to stripping advantage from those who have it over helping others improve. Another thing often missed is that at their core, almost every philosophy based on this core premise will result in similar damage to society that ultimately destroys, no matter what the intentions may be of those who perpetuate these ideas.

[@princesseuphemia1007]

@@g.davidturnblom5751 I agree, but also I think a huge problem in society today is how many progressive ideologies get demonized with strawman arguments about stripping advantages that only get reinforced by TV plots like the one with Amon. I see people freak out all the time the minute the word "privilege" is mentioned because if they do have privilege, their first instinct is to fear that anyone making a critique of that privilege is doing so because they want to take their privilege away, when in fact that is often not the case at all and what is really being argued for is that the advantaged group's privilege is unfair, and that is exactly why we need to extend that privilege to the disadvantaged group. That's what made me think how different Legend of Korra would be if Amon were able to give bending to non-benders instead.

[@g.davidturnblom5751]

@@princesseuphemia1007, good points. Unfortunately, the extremists on both sides contribute a lot to this confusion. When people are asked to "check your privilege" and that is based on non-commutable traits, it hurts the arguments that others are making in hopes of improving life for everyone. The biggest problem, though, is when choice becomes the domain of a precious few, especially among those claiming a desire to make choice more accessible.

[@princesseuphemia1007]

@@g.davidturnblom5751 I see what you mean. I just think the whole "check your privilege" thing also occupies a grey area. For example, if you're white that is in fact an immutable trait, but having white privilege is less immutable not because your skin inherently has privilege encoded into it's DNA or something, but because the society around you is pervaded with prejudice in favor of whites and that can affect you and your beliefs about the world without you being totally aware of it. That doesn't mean everyone in society is super racist or that every judgement call you ever make it automatically going to be wrong because it may come from a place of privilege. Sometimes we're right, and sometimes we're wrong, and sometimes we're even wrong as a direct result of our privilege in society. To me that doesn't mean we should guilt trip ourselves all day long or never say anything ever again because it "might" come from a place of privilege we didn't think about yet, more that we should just remember to keep it in mind as a possibility and try to examine it honestly when it does pop up. Hopefully in the future society will become equal to the point that it won't be an issue anymore, but for the time being it's something we become all the wiser for keeping in mind. Now on the other hand if someone is arguing that white people are inherently impure or inferior as a direct result of the DNA that makes our skin white then that truly is persecution for an immutable trait, but that isn't at all the same thing as saying "check your privilege that you currently happen to have in society due to a complex history of sociopolitical, cultural, and economic factors".

[@princesseuphemia1007]

@@g.davidturnblom5751 Also I want to acknowledge that some people will use the privilege argument to deflect from a point that is actually legitimate just because it happens to come from someone who is privileged in some way, and that definitely isn't helpful, but that also doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater because like I said, sometimes we are in fact wrong or just ignorant of the wider context and nuance of things going on around us as a direct result of having privilege so I don't see any reason not to consider that if we want to help change the world the better.

[@scrapyarddragon]

Amon is a great character with a fascinating motivation who's stuck in a show with rushed writing.

[@JinzoTK]

Hearing you explain it makes it far more than intriguing than I thought. I just wish they continued to explore it in future season instead of dropping it as they did.

[@jedifrog3531]

i too, yet nickelodeon messed the writers around that much that it wasn't possible

[@battybuddy]

Yeah, it just seemed like as soon as Amon was defeated, they just gave some halfass blink-and-you-missed-it explanation of why he was able to take away bending, but I don't think they even began to touch on anything like motive, or how he gained power, or what would have happened if it was revealed that he himself was a bender, or anything like that. He's just defeated and then never even really mentioned again.

[@JinzoTK]

@@battybuddy And everything sorted itself out. The inequality between Benders and Non-Benders. S2: "What"

[@Szentatyaisten]

Not entirely, next time you see Rep City, they have an elected nonbender president, instead of a council of benders from the nations. So there was a big change, it just wasn't elaborated on.

[@Michael-wz2es]

@@Szentatyaisten this,in episode 4 we see that the council immediately treat the Equalists aggressively,since they're all benders they are immediately threatened by the taking away of bending so refuse to hear their complaints. A Non-Bender leader means that they would likely be more sympathetic to the struggles of non benders

[@MCAPrince]

Will you be doing a crique of the comparisons in ideology of the other seasons too? Especially season 3 could be very interesting

[@rulersaury]

He already did one on zaheer

[@1homelander179]

@@rulersaury can you link it?

[@GogiRegion]

The season 3 group was an incoherent mix of contradictory ideologies. They tried to mix the anti-monarchy and anti-bureaucracy of anarchism with the let the strong rule the weak of anarcho-capitalism, which are very strongly opposed ideologies. It sounds like it was made by someone who didn’t understand anything about anarchism trying to make an antagonist based around anarchism.

[@MCAPrince]

@@GogiRegion Where did Zaheer make any might makes right statements?!? He is more of the philosophy of abolishing all (unjust) hierarchies, 'might' is also a hierarchy...

[@srijonsinha8518]

@@GogiRegion kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3XcfKqKjbWUqJY Kay and Skittles did an entire series on the politics of Korra, with this one about Zaheer as a lazy embodiment of anarchism

[@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ]

I think the problem with Amon and the equalist conflict in general, is that Mike and Bryan didn't flesh it out enough Most of the first season is spent around stupid love triangles and a sport tournament that goes nowhere And this is why you need a full writing team

[@alyseleem2692]

AGREED!

[@anonymousgaslighter345]

Only a wierd few like those love triangles but I'll be damned if probending wasn't worth every second of screen time it got

[@malaineeward5249]

I'd say it was more a problem of the producers not giving enough time to flesh it out, rather than the size of the writing team.

[@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ]

@@malaineeward5249 Both were part of the issue. More writers could have figured out a solution and/or theoretically written the story better

[@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ]

@@malaineeward5249 As I said, they chose to spend most of their time with the love triangles and a sport that went no where

[@rapsjay3137]

When you notice the time this was uploaded and do the math and imagine Tim in another 2am redbull-fuelled-frenzy trying to finish this and get it up 🥲 Tim make sure you are looking after yourself pls

[@AxxLAfriku]

Why'd you have to go and make things so complicated? I see the way you're acting like you're somebody else. Gets me frustrated. Just admit that you love the videos I make, my dear ta

[@alenasenie6928]

yeah, is not that he likely has editors besides himself that could be in any timezone

[@HelloFutureMe]

Nah I did get up at 3am mate ~ Tim

[@birbseesall1529]

@@AxxLAfriku _get out_

[@1homelander179]

@@HelloFutureMe please do an Attack on titan video.

[@hollyrose9336]

When you say that there’s no similar thing in real life of some people having genetic advantages that can’t be overcome, you are forgetting about disability. I’m disabled. I will always be at a disadvantage

[@HelloFutureMe]

That's a really fair comparison - should have mentioned it. ~ Tim

[@hollyrose9336]

@@HelloFutureMe it happens, I just hope you’ll consider a the disabled perspective more in the future

[@superjoeyman1]

Hey, also disabled here. It might be interesting to dig into the social model of disability - draws a distinction between impairment and disability, with impairment being the fact of ones body, and disability being constructed by society.

[@larsdejong7396]

Sort off. While it definitely limits the things you can do, no one will discriminate against you because of it.

[@hollyrose9336]

@@larsdejong7396 people definitely discriminate against me for being disabled.

[@komali2]

For a long while they maintained Amon as a truly sympathetic anti-hero. For like 5 or 6 episodes I thought Avatar was going for a SUPER based storyline where the Avatar has to question the entire system that's propping her up, recognizing the truth behind Amon's ideology, that of course benders would have more power in society. Then they had to make him just angry bad mean guy :[[ and it all collapsed.

[@XavionofThera]

He's not sympathetic though. "Create equality by bringing privileged / advantaged people down" is an abhorrent idea. It's better for some people to advantaged than for everyone to be disadvantaged.

[@Urfin_Djus]

@@XavionofThera easy to say from the position of privelege

[@XavionofThera]

@@Urfin_Djus Aka the less biased position. The position where you aren't consumed by jealousy (an irrational and fundamentally immoral state of mind - feeling that others should suffer because you suffered). Regardless, this ("eAsY fOr YoU to SaY") is such a bad argument. It's not meaningful. It's not falsifiable. It's just a dumb, self-righteous attempt at a gotcha.

[@Urfin_Djus]

@@XavionofThera Ah yes, the position of privilege is less biased, because you absolutely don't have any vested interests in keeping the unequal status-quo. "See, it's better when I can bend and you can't, than when we both can't". Because maintaining the inherently unjust social hierarchy is a highly moral and ethical stance to take.

[@XavionofThera]

@@Urfin_Djus "Not tearing people down simply for being born privileged" is the moral position to take. That's removing value from the world to sate your jealousy. "Others have more than me" isn't a moral wrong. And intellectually having a logical "vested interest" is quite different from the highly emotional state of being jealous of others good fortune.

[@ItsThatKidGreg]

This video has convinced me of what I thought when this season originally aired: Korra shouldn't have gotten her bending back so easily, and Amon shouldn't have died. These ideas could've then be explored more and still explored the other villains' ideologies to the same degree.

[@alyseleem2692]

Agreed.

[@arianepan4664]

True, every single season was rushed but Amon's story was the most interesting one

[@VargsTV]

You have to remember that during this time, they were only guaranteed a season at a time, so they made each season wrap up nicely so they wouldn’t leave their audience at a cliffhanger in case it wasn’t going to return. Thus, the faster paced storytelling. If they had the time like Avatar had, then they definitely could’ve explored more, but they didn’t know what time they were working with and only worked in the frame of the time they were given upfront. So it’s extremely unfortunate because Korra’s villains are so dynamic and interesting and worth exploring. And they’re better because it’s geared for an older audience. Blame Nickelodeon for stunting this show.

[@alyseleem2692]

@@VargsTV We wanted a cliffhanger! We could've filled it with fanfiction or whatever!

[@nightazday7988]

Unfortunately they had to rush the ending and make an actual issue just dissipate

[@silentsniper9000]

Yeah Amon worked really well as a parallel to Korra. As Korras aggressive tendencies and obsession of bending showed the potential of what Amon was trying to remove. Thats why Korra as so fearful of him because her identity revolved around being an all powerful super hero who beats up bad guys. Amon taking away her bending means she loses her identity and is ultimately nothing in her mind. Yet..... The ending sequence with Aang restoring her bending as well as giving her FULL CONTROL of the avatar state and freaking energy bending to undo all of Amons damage... This pretty much deletes her entire arc in book one as start of book two shes immediately shown abusing the avatar state in a very childish way (racing children) as well as yelling at Mako Tenzin and her father every opportunity she has. She was suppose to learn how her bending was an obsession and how it played into her identity of the avatar causing her negative traits of aggression naivety selfishness ect. Season one was set up to be that reality check and by losing her identity she was placed in a very humbling place to learn this. Aang even says to her "When we are at our lowest point we are the most open to change" yet he just totally contradicts this statement by instead letting her be open to the change hes talking about throws her back to square one by giving her all she lost as well as two extremely powerful tools at her disposal she never earned making that avatar obsession stronger then ever. Season 1 had other problems as well (Love triangle..) But the ending by far is the worst of it. Season 1 was also the season with barely any continuity to its conflict. Korras character development is erased as stated above, all of Amons bending removal damage is neutralized because of Korras new energy bending (Barring a few gangsters that show up in season 2). Amon and Tarrlok just die by themselves without anyone knowing but the viewer and are never brought up or searched for, How benders and non benders are dealing with the new change of Raiko becoming President is never shown, Pro Bending still existing despite being one of the forms of "inequality" Bryke was hinting at ect. So yeah the ending and lack of continuity really made season one feel lack luster and really messed up the cool character development Korra had ultimately paving the road to people disliking her as a character.

[@lainiwakura1776]

If they wanted to end the season with Korra with her bending, they should have gone the predictable route and had her go Avatar State yip yip when Amon is about to take her bending. That's how it works when you can't control it, it happened a lot with Aang.

[@JesusHasRisen1]

I disliked how fast Korra learned airbending. We only had one real episode of her training, and I felt really unsatisfied by the finale. She really just learns it out of the blue in the finale.

[@silentsniper9000]

Since Korra has a spiritual block it also blocked her ability to use the avatar state. This spiritual block wasn't broken until Amon took away her bending. This block is caused by her mental image of herself being an all powerful super hero who can solve any problem so she completely ignores every duty and other responsibilities of the avatar except for physical strength ability and the powers at her disposal to use in combat because she really is naive enough to believe she can solve any problem with physical aggression. (Why Tenzin, the White Lotus, Katara, her parents, every and every responsible adult let her end up being this disrespectful self centered brat when they had 14 years to train her in times of peace is beyond me but thats a criticism for another day) Point is she couldnt even use the avatar state if she wanted to because of this block from her naive over confident beliefs she had of herself as the avatar. The avatar state is very spiritual based (As The Guru episode of ATLA shows) and how the past lives the source of power of the avatar state (Well only kinda now because of Korra making it the Ravaa state...) But talking to your past usually involves some form of spirituality like meditation. You could argue that AFTER she got her bending taken away Korra could have gone into the avatar state by breaking her spiritual block when Mako was about to lose his bending to Amon instead of Airbending (Note that the airbending Korra does vs Amon actually makes sense and isnt just some bs hidden power plot device and i can explain it if you want but for now ill stick to my main point. Just to point out it has nothing to do with Korra overcoming her fear of Amon like some peeps think but it makes 0 sense if you think about when the block starts and when her fears of Amon start) However theres one part of the sudden airbending that is very flawed of it and thats Amon being written to be dumb enough to over look the fact that the avatar can bend 4 elements not just 3. So instead of Korra airbending in that scene heres an interesting question. What if she lost all her bending air included because Amon didnt want to be an idiot but could now use the avatar state? What would that look like? Would she become a master martial artist? All bending is different forms and styles of marital arts so pretty much any benders that know the motions of bending know the martial arts that come from it. Id find it pretty entertaining that Amon was beaten by a non bender while he himself was a bender all along it would be a pretty cool message for the equality conflict of the 1st season if he was beaten like that. Of course the avatar state kinda undermines the message that non benders can still be just as strong as benders as the avatar can only use it so it isnt perfect of course. However it would not only be more interesting then just airbending because we have Korra take out Amon without bending as shown by the Yakone flashback episode the avatar state completely resists even psychic bloodbending but it also wouldnt have to make Amon be an idiot and undermine his cool character with an idiotic mistake.

[@lucyandecember2843]

@@silentsniper9000 THISS! It's really a shame too cause i feel like season 1 had a lot of potential to be really great, ik it has to do with production issues and all that, it just makes me a bit sad.

[@darkraysofsunshine3113]

When it comes to the bender vs non-bender stuff, I think it would've been really benefitable for Sokka (even Suki) to be here, or at least be name dropped

[@adnanilyas6368]

I’ve never had much tolerance for the argument that Amon was a communist. The show NEVER says anything about property or labor or economics. We don’t even know how Amon would set up a government. To call Amon a communist suggests a seriously flawed understanding of what communism is. I think you are right that the “equality” language makes people make that jump, but that says sinister things about the state of propaganda. Equality is ubiquitous is politics and government language. It’s one of the key themes in American Declaration of Independence! For me, the conflict gets at the way that urbanism erodes existing ties. The framework we saw in ATLA was mostly rural people who viewed members of their community - and by extension their particular nation- as someone they had commonality with, whether they were benders or not. The distinction was largely locals vs. outsiders. LOK does well to swap out that world for one where individuals must forge their own ties. And to makes sense that benders would be able to form powerful institutions that abuse and exploit their power, as Tarlok does. Amon makes a good counterpoint to that. But the show also creates a healthy middle ground, as depicted with Tenzin and Pema. It would have been better if the air acolytes were made a more serious part of the Air Nation, but that’s an extension of that example. It seems clear to me that LOK S1 really needed more time at both the beginning and end of the story. We needed time to see how benders v. nonbenders was a big problem in Republic City and we needed to actually see the election of president Raiko. But the idea had promise. And it presents nicely with the conflicts that Zaheer introduces in S3.

[@noagolden]

One problem with saying the show never talked about property, labor or economics is that a lot of media depicting communists doesn't mention any of that, especially due to the red scare. Most just scrub the content of the ideology squeaky clean, leaving some people not knowing at all what communists believe, or, in this case, people crying communist on Amon when better metaphors stick.

[@spartida3850]

In the comics doesn’t team avatar crack down on unionists who work at industrial factories?

[@noagolden]

@@spartida3850 no idea lol only saw the shows

[@Dunmerdog]

Totally agree. A big issue I had was that we had a huge amount of time spent trying to assert that nonbenders were screwed over but we were given so much visual storytelling to say the opposite. The Sato family are nonbenders and wield immense power, Mako and Bolin are cheated of their winnings at every turn. Aside from the metalbending police force, it seems as though the ability to wield force (in which benders hold a clear advantage) has been largely worked out of society, nullifying that advantage.

[@paulbadman8509]

Tl/Dr, Anything>Communism

[@donchon7580]

The theme of your videos is "it's complicated!" Or "a wizard did it!". And I'm down for that

[@jeffreydenenberg7101]

but magic is just science that we don't yet understand so technically "a wizard did it" is just "it's complicated" in disguise

[@13KuriMaster]

@@jeffreydenenberg7101 Not really.... "A wizard did it!" is typically used to summarize when something happens in a work with no real explanation. Rather or not actual magic is used in the work is irrelevant.

[@donchon7580]

@@13KuriMaster hey kindred spirit. I know that. And i do appreciate you taking the time to point it out. But it was a joke in support of his videos on how common he uses the phrases it's complicated and less common a wizard did it.

[@j2dragon109]

@@jeffreydenenberg7101 Magic isn't science. We use science to understand reality. So if magic existed science would help us understand at least some of the principles behind it , but that wouldn't make magic a science. (The study of magic would, but magic itself would just be a thing in the world.) A storm isn't science, but it can be explained by science.

[@j2dragon109]

@@donchon7580 13KuriMaster was replying to Jeffery Denenberg not you

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

I really wish Amon wasn't lying, he really did get powers from a spirit, he really wasn't a bender. and in his final fight with Korra it's just a minute of Korra beating the shit out of him. It could even to lead into s2 by having Korra search for the spirit that gave Amon the power to take bending.

[@alyseleem2692]

Me,too.

[@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus]

Yeah, that twist was really dumb and contrived. It's almost as if the writers couldn't find a compelling reason why Amon was wrong, and just resorted to "look, he's a hypocrite after all" in an attempt to quickly end that plotline before they write themselves into a corner.

[@jacklau2558]

@@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus I don't see it as bad more like rushed. The idea of benders helping even leading ain't bad as a base it's more execution that fails. There is a reason people like Amon his ideals those radical have merit yet he also shows this even further as in reality a non bender revolution would need bender allies if they don't want major casualties. Technology can only level the field so much without firearms. If they had more time this could have worked.

[@flow_987]

​@@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus Lol it wasn't contrived. The idea of Amon being a bender who hates bending is actually more interested than Amon just being a non-bender who hates bending. As tarrlok said, Amon's intentions were genuine. I agree with Jack Lau that the ending was rushed, though. The concept was brilliant and had potential but they didn't milk it fully. Still a good season tho.

[@anonymousgaslighter345]

How many times do you people have to be told season 1 was supposed to be the entire series. Season 2 was officiated much later

[@jakobmogenson5150]

I think the way the original "Amon represents communism" argument was framed in Skittles' video wasn't so much supposed to assume that the story was to be a one-to-one allegory of the historical actions, ideals and beliefs of communists, but rather that the show inadvertently signaled common and deeply held misunderstandings and misrepresentations of communist rhetoric and ideas as just inherently bad due ingrained pro-capitalist propaganda in the west. Even still though, both this video and Skittles' were great and each bring up very interesting points of discussion concerning ideologies, which really goes to show just how much potential this story would've had if it were afforded the time and budget to be fully fleshed out. Problems and inconsistencies can and will always rise in writing when villains are A, doing objectively bad things for what is arguably a good cause, and B, take heavy influences in framing and aesthetic to real-world leaders and figures, and these problems only get worse when constraints like this show had are put in place. Hopefully with the coming Avatar Studios, more complex and fully realized stories in the universe can be told and spark even more discussion around similar topics.

[@marcusdaniel6406]

I always thought Amon leanings more similar to “Nobility” (benders by blood) vs “Commoners”. Especially remembering that blood has a factor in bending shown by the Fire Nation.

[@firetarrasque4667]

Which would work a bell of a lot better if they hadn't set Legend of Korra in the fucking industrial revolution

[@alyseleem2692]

@@firetarrasque4667 Or made it a Republic in the first place. Seriously, these guys can vote!

[@danalockhart1841]

i think the clearest example of the writers not wanting bending to directly parallel class and wealth is through the economic classes of mako and bolin versus asami. bolin and mako are two very talented benders, and yet they are written as impoverished and formerly homeless. however, asami, the non-bender, is one of the richest people in the city. those characters were probably intentionally written this way to separate bending from becoming a metaphor for class within the avatar world.

[@alyseleem2692]

Then what is the Divide between benders and nonbenders? What is it that makes them feel so oppressed as to cause this? A few street thugs? Simple Fear?

[@danalockhart1841]

@@alyseleem2692 hi! to me the seperation of non-benders and benders in republic city is more through the government and police/military. the council was made up of all benders who were not elected, meaning benders run the city. this allows people like tarrlok to come into power and oppress non-benders through the council. the police force is also made up of and run by benders. also, even though benders dont necessarily have an advantage getting jobs, they do have an advantage in the crime scene. triads like the triple threats start to run the poorer areas of the city by using their bending to oppress non-benders. this seperates the non-benders and benders more than class in republic city.

[@alyseleem2692]

@@danalockhart1841 Good idea. Thank you for this answer!

[@snintendog]

Except it backfired. mako and Bolin used bending to become rich as pro benders. Caste systems will always be evil and immoral Amon is correct.

[@VelocityZap]

​@alyseleem2692 No taxation without representation! That is basically the simple truth of the divide in that city. Benders are represented and have power. Non benders aren't and have no power.

[@TeeTee-05]

now i want a avatar series set in the cold war version of their world Edit: forgot to mention love the videos. haven't watched in awhile but you've come a long way in 4 years

[@Bunbiichuffn]

Radiation bending when

[@Shadowfolk369]

We already have a nuclear allegory with the vine bombs developed by Varick

[@ededdneddy4ever34]

If kuvira reunited the earth kingdom it would’ve been that way between her and the fire nation.

[@nikorhythm796]

That would be savage

[@alenasenie6928]

friendly mushroom... mushy giant frieeeend

[@nicoleonfeels]

The villains in LOK were v interesting and have so much depth. Tbh, I was rooting for Zaheer and some points.

[@Excalibur01]

Until you realize that he was absolutely misguided in an attempt to destroy a government system and ended up making it worse politically.

[@alexgroot2508]

I always find Zaheer interesting on a meta level in how wrong the show portrays Anarchism. I guess its a compliment to an ideology when the only way to 'debunk it' is to miss-characterize it so grossly that it isn't that ideology anymore.

[@lonebattledroid4474]

Not really but that's just me

[@taylor_green_9]

@@alexgroot2508 Even if you are right, Iroh himself points out that Zaheer is not inherently wrong, but merely taking his ideology too far and falling out of balance

[@alexgroot2508]

@@taylor_green_9 Toph is the one that points that out, but my issue is not with Zaheer taking 'anarchism too far'- what Zaheer preaches is straight up *not anarchism.* You can't go 'too far' in something you're not even doing a little of.

[@lex-ux2uf]

4:05 "movements that are not communist" *shows a clip of mlk, a man who had strong ties to socialist groups like the BPs and who has stater often times that he doesn't see racial equality in a capitalist future*

[@lindenshepherd6085]

Yeah….I can kind of get it as a blind spot for a non-American, though.

[@ibrahimihsan2090]

Is communism the same as socialism?

[@lindenshepherd6085]

@@ibrahimihsan2090 Nope. They're related but different economic approaches.

[@HippoEnjoyer]

@@lindenshepherd6085the distinction only really exists nowadays, with communism describing Marxism Leninism and Socialism being democratic socialism. IIRC Marx didn’t really define them as separate things, them both referring to an economy controlled by the workers.

[@Rainbowthewindsage]

The idea of taking away bending reminds me of that weird dystopian short story I read in highschool where everyone is required to be impaired by technology. And then some super powered 12 year old who is just too smart and too big to be impaired shows up and makes himself king or something. That story was a fever dream to read.

[@downtime86stars17]

I remember a similar story, where those who are advantaged are implanted with technology or forced to wear restraints and deliberately handicapped to prevent them from being better physically than others. If they were more attractive, they had to wear masks. The story ended when someone who managed to throw off their mask and shackles was executed. Unfortunately, I can't recall the title of the story or the author.

[@thegreatkingofevilganondor1500]

@@downtime86stars17 Yes, that’s Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut. I don’t like it very much-it fundamentally misunderstands what equality is and suggests it isn’t something worth striving for.

[@downtime86stars17]

@@thegreatkingofevilganondor1500 I don't think it misunderstands equality, it is a metaphor for what can happen when a society distorts equality. I live in a part of the country where civic "leaders" ran -- and got elected -- on platforms in which they PROMISED to punish successful people. They are doing it, too, using economics rather than physical restraints and brain implants, but the parallels are there.

[@seekingabsolution1907]

Pretty sure the kid gets shot in the end actually. Least the story I read of that sort.

[@seekingabsolution1907]

​@@downtime86stars17 do you mean not letting capitalists hoard the vast majority of wealth at the expense of impoverishing the rest of society because if you do. That's not a punishment, that's accountability.

[@teucer915]

The issue I had was that the oppression Amon opposed is shown clearly to be real and structural from a moment after we hear about equalism, but that the solution wasn't to undo it in ways that have nothing to do with Amon but to restore the pre-Amon status quo - leaving Korra as, in fact, making the choice to support the oppression she originally hadn't seen. That would be poignant, a powerful statement on the nature of elites' politics, if it were presented as tragic rather than as "ok we beat Amon, moving on."

[@alyseleem2692]

When it comes to this show, never expect them to go too deep. They ain't never gonna go through with it,no matter how much they pretend to be edgy grownups.

[@LifeInJambles]

​@@alyseleem2692I mean they'll go deep on some things, but politics ain't really one of em. Their politics are solidly milquetoast "can't we all just get along" liberalism, and it's pretty clearly just because they've never seriously considered (whether by choice or circumstance) the reasons that doesn't work and only serves to squash the efforts of the oppressed in seeking liberation.

[@daddykarlmarx6183]

See you think that amons philosophy being different to communism means that amons philosophy was always meant to be something else, I personally think the writers just didn't know what communism was lmao, they proved later on they had just as infantile of an understanding of anarchism

[@shlynroy8361]

I always saw (at least in ATLA with Sokka) that nonbenders reminded me of my own life with being disabled.

[@AlicedeTerre]

Viewed in that context imagine a disability movement that was about cutting off people's limbs or removing their ability to walk or move. I think any disability advocate would disavow that sort of violent extremism.

[@shlynroy8361]

@@AlicedeTerre yeah. That's why it works as a better tie in to bending then money. Removing someone's limbs is horrifying just like what the equalists were doing.

[@relariis_the_paradox]

7:24 "Saying 'communists target rich people for things they can't control' was not, and never has been, a critique of communist philosophy, even from it's opponents." Hoo boy Tim, I think you need to start listening to some modern American propaganda just for the learning experience, cause uh... Yeah that's definitely now a relatively common talking-head point.

[@jerseyfrill]

This! I was watching this video and, like, I’m glad my boy Tim knows what communism actually is but his fundamental misunderstanding is that what Amon is in the show is likely what mike and Bryan think it is.

[@lloydgush]

Has always been, to be honest. The kulak is basically a racial class. Most early communists were also anti-semitic at their core, marx and engles as pristine examples.

[@PsilentMusicUK]

@@lloydgush The kulak is not and never has been a racial class. It refered to high income peasants. There were also terms for middle income (serednyak) and low income (bednyak) peasants. You never hear about those two because they actually supported the collectivisation policies in the early Soviet Union. Most people in general in the 1800s and early 1900s were antisemitic. You could say "Marx and Engels supported the wearing of mustaches to their core" and it would be about as much a commentary of their personality.

[@brendancoulter5761]

@@lloydgush Stalin for another, he may have survived had he not arrested all Jewish doctors a short time before his stroke.

[@elitemook4234]

‘Woke culture’ is the pursuit of redistribution of wealth, power, and land down race gender and class lines in pursuit of aims of 'social justice' -Ash Sarkar People like Ash Sarkar are applying communist theory to immutable traits such as race and gender and this is why ‘equality’ is seen as a communist dog whistle as Tim points out. Because communists are using it as a dog whissle. Now that people started catching on they started using 'equity'.

[@oremfrien]

HFM, I believe that you misunderstood Kay and Skittles' critique of LoK; it is not that Amon is a Communist but rather that Amon and the Equalist Movement represent the right-wing strawman of Communism. In the right-wing view, wealth is a defining part of person's identity because it is a symbol of how hard they work, what industry they work in, their societal prestige, and numerous other attributes. From the right-wing perspective, an allegory of treating bending as identity makes sense, even though most of us in the center or the left-wing see wealth as something distinct from identity.

[@reksfoleur859]

HFM definitely did not understand Kay and Skittles' analysis... which makes this video incorrect ^^ I agree with your statement

[@daniellxnder]

Indeed!

[@Ryleeman54number2]

Yes leftists totally dont identify with wealth? Have you been to any fucking major city in america? Yea people in cali totally dont do that. Not like the people there want to always be around their wealthy friends lmao. Its totally just because of his personality tho lol

[@oremfrien]

@@Ryleeman54number2 I completely agree with you that Left-leaning people are just as materialistic and attracted to wealth as anyone else. That wasn't my point and I believed that you misunderstood what I wrote. What I was arguing is that most people on the Left do not believe wealth to be an immutable trait. For example, people on the Left believe that a person is born gay. They couldn't not be gay because it's immutable, it's part of their very being. People on the Right (at least used to) believe that gay is a choice and that if a gay person sincerely does not want to be gay that their "gayness" is separable and they could leave it behind. When it comes to wealth, people on the Left tend to see wealth as a choice and you can be the same person whether or not you are wealthy. On the Right, wealth tends to be seen as an external validation for how good someone is and taking that wealth would be forcing a person to give up something that rightfully belongs to them and is nearly immutable. That's the argument.

[@Ryleeman54number2]

@@oremfrien ive honestly see the opposite. I grew up in a very republican area and they dont really care about being rich per se. In my experience leftists are way more obsessed with it. While far leftists dont care too much about wealth i believe a vast majority of liberals do. Even if they say otherwise. They talk and walk differently if you get what I mean. While most republicans ive met just want to fish and drink beer and listen to shitty music lmao

[@grapeicies]

I wish they'd done more with Amon and how his effect on the world continued to ripple. That whole plot point was done so dirty at the end

[@alyseleem2692]

Agreed.

[@XavionofThera]

Not every show has to be one giant series arc. I miss older more episodic shows personally.

[@alyseleem2692]

@@XavionofThera It would've been great. 😭

[@luigivercotti6410]

Kudos for having some of the funniest bits in the YT video essay world while maintaining real clarity of discourse and educational value.

[@ScarletBanter]

This is one of those major inherent issues with trying to parallel the real world with a setting where power is inborn instead of made available by context, as with superhero stories (Has Amon seen the Incredibles!?). It's one of the major reasons I prefer fantasy settings where, at least for people, supernatural or technological power is something that is accessed the same way it is in the real world: Education, Resources, Connections, etc. When a portion of your population are functionally a different species you're dealing with a story that is divorced from human experience. It can still be good, but you're no longer talking about *humans* even if they look human and can reproduce with humans. What I'm saying is that Harry Potter is an alien.

[@runningcommentary2125]

YA stories that use wizards as a metaphor for oppressed ethnic minorities really annoy me because ethnic minorities are never that different to the majority of their society in a way that justifies discrimination, whereas if wizards existed I would definitely want laws in place restricting what they can do. If people with magic powers should be a metaphor for anyone, it's the wealthy, because if they did exist they would probably sit right at the top of the pyramid.

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

that's half correct. I think that even "aliens" are relatable enough to make a good story about the human condition. also, it's exactly this arbitrary divide that can serve as a great narrative tool: because in the real world, many people do feel (and it's justified to an extent) that wealth and stuff is just "inborn" and luck dependent. also, there is a real life analog to this: disabilities.

[@ethanharmon7343]

I think that neither realism nor fantasy is perfect on their own. You're right that fantasy often falls into tropes and patterns that makes it harder to relate their messages to the real world. For instance, fantasy racism doesn't map onto real world racism perfectly, since fantasy races are often actually different from each other and not just a cultural construct. It becomes at least one step divorced from it's real world counterpart in most cases. But I think that fantasy stories can offer a different perspective on real world issues. If you limit yourself to only thinking in terms of what is possible in the real world, you unnecessarily limit the discussion to what we believe is possible. Thinking about what is right and wrong in different contexts is a good exercise, even if it doesn't lead to a direct material outcome, because it helps develop your understanding of those concepts in stronger and more flexible ways. That said, I do think that it is really important that we do distinguish the limits of fantasy. The more you change the context, the more separate it's outcomes will be from reality. That said, I think dehumanizing people in fantasy stories is really weird. I think I understand what you mean by it, but you might want to rethink that wording.

[@1homelander179]

The boys (2019)

[@lucyandecember2843]

your comment had a perfect ending! I regard this a canon now lol

[@Magaxstar]

Tim I Love your content man! You and the Channel The Meaning of NERD are my go to for philosophical Avatar content. Keep it up🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@marshmallowvampire8503]

Same.

[@marshmallowvampire8503]

It's also kinda funny to me that he knows either not much or bs about American politics.😂😂😂😂

[@milospollonia1121]

Why Do you Type Like this?

[@Magaxstar]

@@milospollonia1121 What do you mean ?

[@Magaxstar]

@@marshmallowvampire8503 Most people know nothing about politics in general, lets be honest

[@valhallacomes]

I really understand and empathize with what Bryan was talking about in his quote. Since I was young I was told, I always had a chance of one day developing glaucoma cause one of my iris is different shape than the other. And since it's a disorder that doesn't have a cure, it'll just mean that I will become blind the moment I get it. But despite that, throughout my life I've always been drawn to visual art, I love graphic novels, manga, concept art, drawing and illustration, hell I'm even graduating with a graphic design degree soon. But theres always that thought in the back of my head that just goes "this can all disappear in a single moment". It frightens me but I can't do anything but ignore that and wish it to not become a reality

[@Oxtocoatl13]

I understand your anguish, living with an incurable condition myself. However, as far as I know, glaucoma can be slowed down very much by treatment. If you get your eyes checked regularly and they spot it early and begin treatment, it can take as long as 30-40 years until you lose sight in the eye. Of course, it's still a bitch to deal with. I wish you well and hope that the fear of losing your sight doesn't overshadow your life to the point of paralysis. And congrats on the design degree.

[@lucyandecember2843]

im just commenting so i can find this comment again

[@aceatlasska4343]

You don't just become blind the moment you develop glaucoma. I was born with it and it went untreated for years, I was finally diagnosed at the age of 11, when I noticed I could barely see out of my right eye when I covered my left one, and we went to the optician's where it turned out that my eye pressures were far too high. I have it in both eyes but it's at a more advanced stage in my right, I only have 10% of my optic nerve left in that eye. I use eye drops twice a day in both my eyes for it, and had an operation on my right eye when I was 13 (which left me half deaf and with tinnitus but that's another story), which have been effective at halting the condition and maintaining my eye pressures at normal levels. It doesn't affect me much since I have my left eye to compensate basically. Hopefully since you know you're at risk the condition wouldn't progress to the point you're almost blind, another reason I didn't notice is because it only really affected one of my eyes. The point is if it's detected early and you get the right treatment the condition can be halted/prevented from making you blind. It's obviously a scary prospect that you could lose your sight one day, especially since you're passionate about visual arts, but it doesn't really work instantly like that with glaucoma. Idk if you'll ever read this haha, but you should feel reassured, and hopefully you might not end up developing it at all. :)

[@tobiasb1622]

as someone who recently discovered I'm disabled, I fully feel this. I have often cried over the fear I may never be able to dance or enjoy life again like I used to. having your passions stripped away from you is incredibly terrifying. I'm really glad you're living your life and I hope you are able to pursue the things that make you happy for a long time!

[@Argacyan]

While wealth is not an inherent characteristic of a person, wealthy people do tend to think of it like that or that they somehow earned their wealth because of some inherent characteristic they think they had in any shape

[@Markadown]

And this is reinforced by society. To be wealthy is to be smart, accomplished, worthy. Stems from days of royalty and the intertwining of religion.

[@afrofrycook]

I don't think you've ever talked to someone with wealth. They view it as something they've rightfully earned through their efforts, because they have.

[@Markadown]

I've talked to and know people with wealth. They inherited it. They did nothing for it. They didn't work for it. It was given to them. Passed down. And they DID think they really did something to get it. That they were worthy and worked hard (they didn't). It was laughable to see how they viewed themselves. But also sad.

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

@@Markadown there fathers propley eared it

[@Markadown]

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl how do you know that? How do you know it was not passed down? Generational wealth is a thing. But what does that even has to do with the person who did nothing to earn it? Whose to say the wealth is from their father's and not their mother?

[@grobanlover292]

I always viewed Amon as a Populist, playing on people's fears and inequalities to gain power, promising to make things better through drastic changes. Edit: omg tim agrees with me

[@alyseleem2692]

True.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

Ah Amon, the only villain in this sequel that I believed was actually good till they ruined him. It would've been better if he remained as a symbol of Fighting the Inequalities that non-benders faced, like "V" from "V for Vendetta." I.M.O., the "inequality" that the non-benders face is as fabricated as the "oppression" faced by the Faunus in RWBY. I don't recall any non-bender character in TLOK to ever complaing that benders had more advantages than they did. If anything, all the tech that non-benders have actually gives them the same advantages; they know how to make electricity, build, and even live without the need for bending, SO WHY WERE THIS WORLD'S EQUIVALENT OF MAGICIANS EVER A PROBLEM??? We aren't shown that non-benders have it worse than benders and even if we were, it apparently wasn't impactful enough to leave a lasting memory. Also, if the fact that Benders are a threat because of their magic is what the Equalists are really all about, then they wouldn't even be called "Equalists." Rather, they would be called something else that associates them with their goals of eradicating "the source of the world wars." It doesn't matter how many video essayists will dissect TLOK and call it "brilliant," the fact still remains that it was horribly put together. How would you like it if the Fire Lord was defeated in the first season of TLAB and they had to start out from scratch with a bigger more threatening villain for the next??? It gives the overall story a sense that there's no endgame planned since we'll just keep getting a new big bad next season. Just imagine how things would've turned out if TLOK was just focused on Benders vs Non-benders and what exactly the Avatar's place in the world would be if there's no imbalance between the Four Elements.

[@cometmoon4485]

Your take makes it seem like Amon is faking his passion to get personal power, but this isn't the case. Amon is completely genuine in his cause.

[@alyseleem2692]

@@cometmoon4485 With all due respect, No. The moment he was revealed to be a bender,any truth coming from him became suspect. That he kept using his bending in the way you saw in the finale only confirmed it. If he didn't believe in it,he was purely a liar. If he did, he was a hypocrite.

[@Colarein]

@@alyseleem2692 The writers have stated that Amon's motives were genuine. Even if you want to disregard their comments, the narrative treats Amon as a well-intentioned extremist as well, because he never acts contrary to his cause, and Tarrlok says as much to Korra and Mako. Personally, I don't find Amon to be a hypocrite. The Equalists believed that benders should not use their powers to abuse and extort non-benders; that was their main societal grievance. Amon only ever used his bending against other benders in the defense of non-benders (with the exception of his lieutenant, which was self-defense and necessary to keeping his secret from spreading and ruining the movement). Even in the final fight with Korra and Mako, he only used his powers to subdue them long enough to take their bending. He wasn't out to kill or power-trip; his bloodbending was used for utilitarian reasons only.

[@bagel4404]

4:04 funnily enough, MLK was also an advocate for socialism. he outright said that he was "much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic"

[@chris7263]

The fact that one of the main equalist-sympathizer characters we meet is a *wealthy industrialist* also seemed like a really obvious hint that Equalism was not a one-to-one proxy for Communism.

[@Miraihi]

Friedrich Engels was exactly that though - wealthy industrialist who cared about the working class. His first titular study in that field is called "The Condition of the Working Class in England".

[@AL-gy8fx]

Because Communism is a huge lie - so it actually fits pretty well

[@bosniencommie1202]

@@AL-gy8fx as a socialist il ask you why do you think thet

[@AL-gy8fx]

​@@bosniencommie1202 Don't know, ask a starving commie

[@AL-gy8fx]

@Діма Базалюк Yes

[@alexgroot2508]

I kinda think Amon's views are more in line with the German revolution of 1918-1919, which was in turn in line with the French Revolution in that it didn't so much focus on class or wealth, though there were strong elements of both those questions, but that it was an anti *nobility* revolution as well as an anti-monarchist one. Because Noble blood *is* an inherent quality that both culturally and practically advantages a powerful minority over powerless majority. It maps onto bending far better I think, and it also parallels the strong cultural component that both bending and nobility have as well as making Amon's talk of impurity less 'disease' themed and more 'culturally' themed. I think it makes more sense to view Amon through that lens. For those interested in that revolution, I recommend 'The Iron Dice: the fight for the revolution, part 2' by the channel 'The Iron Dice.'

[@loturzelrestaurant]

Hello Future Me put more thought into this than the Writers, obviously. I normally never say this about this channel, but this time, he's overthinkig it. LOK is just a Mess.

[@rimantssiupienis1380]

00:06 ah yes, my favorite accent: french-russian, or as i like to call it: vodka-baguette

[@YataTheFifteenth]

The revolutionary duo

[@sophie9419]

I think the main issue is that they used a lot of the imagery of communism/nazism/socialism as shorthand but they didnt really think it out in this kind of world. So, its messy. Kind of the race allegory in zootopia.

[@swangrisly2148]

I agree. Like Zootopia, it isn't meant to perfectly parallel real life, but it's a metaphor for real life issues. The most interesting thing about Zootopia, for me anyway is that they made the odd choice of making predators not just hated, but they used to "rule" the world. They used to consume and attack others, until later. Plus, it's presented as a both sides thing, as both have reasons to fear each other: the prey just don't like predators for their past actions, and the predators are angry b'coz they're stereotyped as, in Nick Canon's words, acting out of a deficiency (or primitive, savage ways) and "that's how they servived". In the case of the predators it's semi true, but anyone can defy their nature and be good people/creatures.

[@lucyandecember2843]

@@swangrisly2148 "making prey not just hated, but they used to "rule" the world." i think you meant to write predator lol Also i agree its really intresting, adds some nuance to it.

[@swangrisly2148]

@@lucyandecember2843 Yes that's what I meant. My fault. That predators controlled the world.😄😅😅

[@tutumazibuko2510]

@Connor B_THATNERDYGUY they obviously didn't. They even made the idiotic racism comparison for Zootopia when it was literally NEVER about racism, it was about Prejudice

[@Corviidei]

@@tutumazibuko2510 ...prejudice based on race.

[@ovencake523]

Man... amon was the best villain in Legend of Korra... if Korra getting her bending taken away actually affected the next season would've been so cool

[@alyseleem2692]

Agreed.

[@desmondbrown5508]

"He points out how the government is bias towards benders... The rights to protest, free speech, **a fair trial**, presumption of innocence... non-benders may have equal rights by law, but bending means they cannot exercise those rights as easily." This honestly reminds me of the legal system. No matter how right you are, if it's you vs. a rich person or a corporation... you know where that court case is gonna go. We ALL know how that's going to end up. It even takes MANY people being hurt by a company before we can even take action, instead of stopping it at the first instance, because a class action is more viable than an individual criminal or civil lawsuit for most regular people. Power discrepancies encroach on rights, by definition.

[@PhoutianPhill]

I whish Amon was asked the question "what about water bender healing" that saves a lot of people.

[@Falcon.Crunch]

I don’t think that would change or challenge Amons stance at all. Amon IS a water bender and understands more than most how even that can be corrupted to a high degree.

[@PhoutianPhill]

@@Falcon.Crunch you're right. I don't think it's enough to challenge his stance, especially since he refers to it as an impurity, but I would've like to see the topic addressed for his viewpoint and further discussion.

[@Falcon.Crunch]

@@PhoutianPhill yeah that’s fair. I can’t say that I wouldn’t also like to see how he’d respond to that.

[@TheLithp]

It'd be interesting to hear his rationalization, but that's ultimately what he'd do.

[@alyseleem2692]

His hatred is effectively religious in it's fervour. In his eyes,all bending must be replaced by hard earned tech and work. In short ,a world like our own.

[@wickedthing6068]

I agree with both yours & Kay’s interpretations. I’m just here to enjoy Amon content.

[@fightingfalcon777]

This might sound silly, but Amon taking a bender’s bending away is honestly more akin to Dr. Evil taking away Austin Powers’s mojo. Just as Korra’s bending and being the Avatar is central to who she is, Austin’s libido/mojo and status as this legendary swinger is central to who he is

[@chongwillson972]

@fightingfalcon777 now i have the image of amon taking away korra mojo...

[@fightingfalcon777]

@@chongwillson972 🤣🤣🤣 Amon: *finds frozen Korra* HAHAHAHA! I’ve got your mojo now, Avatar! *extracts the mojo* Korra: *in bed with Asami* OH, MY RAAVA! I’ve lost my mojo!

[@AsiniusNaso]

I think a proper comparison here can be made to the “Red bureaucracy” critique of Bolshevik communism by Mikhail Bakunin, which actually applies to a great deal of revolutionary movements: when revolution is predicated on violence, bigotry, and/or an ‘us vs them’ dichotomy, ESPECIALLY if it does not change the underlying system of the previously oppressive regime, it cannot fundamentally change people’s behavior, only switch who is doing the oppressing. Escaping oppressive systems (i.e. bending supremacy) requires dismantling the pyramid of hierarchy and supremacy, rather than flipping it onto its next side as Amon does.

[@prs_81]

Based

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

Agreed, and cool take! But I wonder, is there any way in the Avatar universe to "dismantling the pyramid of hierarchy and supremacy" of bending? Benders would always inherently have a higher capacity for usefulness than a non-bender.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

Hello Future Me put more thought into this than the Writers, obviously. I normally never say this about this channel, but this time, he's overthinkig it. LOK is just a Mess.

[@hexagonalchaos]

good too see comrade Tim staying nerdy and making avatar videos still.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

Mind ti 'edit' again for grammar? Hope you dont mind.

[@eedwardgrey2]

It's also interesting that many benders (Mako and Bolin) were economically struggling while some non-benders (the Asami's and Varrick) were filthy rich, making the Marxims analogy kinda weird, but makes the Strasserist analogy work

[@electric_eclectic]

“He’s a Communist.” “...But his biggest ally is a Capitalist...” “Details, details.”

[@alyseleem2692]

True.

[@MineralTrainer]

And against nazism, USSR biggest ally wasn't USA?

[@alyseleem2692]

@@MineralTrainer Kinda yes. Kinda no. By the end of the war,open suspicion boiled on both sides.

[@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus]

Well to be fair, the Kay and Skittles video does go into detail on that point. Even though Amon isn't communist in any ideological sense, he and the conflict in the first season are still meant to be an allegory for socialism, just like the later antagonists are allegories for anarchism and nationalism. They are not exactly good allegories, but they are allegories nonetheless, and clearly intended to be understood as such by the authors.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

Hello Future Me put more thought into this than the Writers, obviously. I normally never say this about this channel, but this time, he's overthinkig it. LOK is just a Mess.

[@viviansventures]

Benders still have innate privilege of being able to do labor and jobs that are esteemed and valued for society, with them having more economic opportunity than non-benders, which was the (generously reading) point of Amon's storyline in S1 of LoK. But Amon is a strawman of that idea, thinking that benders are innately evil and must be purged from society, which not only is a stupid and immersion-breakingly ridiculous belief for anyone to have in the world of Avatar(they literally have magic powers that allowed for incredible feats of engineering, production, and in some cases straight up healing and psychic divination), but also yet again paint an unprivileged social movement seeking equality as a violent and dangerous antagonist faction that is a threat to the protagonists who must stop them, and afterwards the bending privilege plotline is never mentioned again in the rest of the series. It's like writing a villain faction of a labor unions that are also all anti-vaxxers and are trying to overthrow the government and ban vaccines from their country.

[@MommahKat]

Yea as much as I enjoyed LOK they very often liked making their villains minority groups rising up against their oppressors. "Oh they are taking it to the extreme so that's why it's bad" well then you are insinuating that any revolutions had are villainous. Oppressors don't listen to peaceful protests and often, as even seen in the show, punish those doing it. So in the end what are these people left to do? And then LOK paints those people in villainous tones for realizing their peaceful protests are just being ignored and turn to the path of revolution. edit: grammar

[@corymoon2439]

Technology was meant to replace the power of bending. It's a labor movement with heavy factory worker backing. These guys are led/financed by major technological innovators, and their fighting represents that. I'd almost call them tech benders.

[@faithjolley6034]

This is an issue I have with this discussion is that we can't discuss Amon's ideas without discussing him as a character. The reason why he believes that it's evil despite all evidence otherwise is because he has seen bending at its most evil, I would even say traumatized by it. I think that one of the reasons why I would say "Amon took his ideas too far" isn't the fact that he was fighting for equality or a revolution, it's the fact that he was working to not only remove a core part of a benders identity, but he also didn't realize that the world does function better with benders, who can provide unique advantages: being good healers, creating electricity. Those things benefit non-benders too. Amon wasn't trying to come up with a solution that benefitted everyone the most, he was only focused on helping non-benders, so his solution was damaging and kind of unfair to benders who don't abuse their power and who use it to actively help people. The problem with the Equalist movement, and the reason why I believe it was painted the way it was, is because it actively hurt people. Bending is a part of someone's identity, and that was being ripped away from them. Not to mention that the movement also electrocuted people, scared benders and nonbenders alike, and was actively tearing away a huge part of the economy, people's livelihoods. That's not a victimless crime, that hurt people. Maybe Amon's intentions were good, but we can't pretend like his actions were because they weren't.

[@firetarrasque4667]

Yeah, I think Tim (and the show runners, for that matter) really missed the mark here. Abled and disabled people are a thing that exist in a real world. No matter how hard I work, I'm never going to not have asthma. No matter how good at a job I am, it's always going to be more difficult for me to exist in a work environment because I have autism and ADHD. There was potential to explore bending as a kind of super-ability, which would have been really cool and a good way to get around how we in the real world often picture anyone with a disability as worth less than abled people. Instead, we got... Whatever the fuck it is we got.

[@fadran11]

"An oppressed people who are oppressed." -Tim, 2021

[@lucyandecember2843]

indeeed, the floor here is made of floor

[@FireFox64000000]

Amon reminds me of a eugenicists is some ways. Kind of in reverse though.

[@Excalibur01]

Basically mutants vs humans in X-Men

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

@@Excalibur01 kind of, but not really. in x men they wanted to exterminate the mutants, and mutant powers are much more extreme than bending

[@Excalibur01]

@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 but still a special power only the few can have and can be dangerous

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

@@Excalibur01 yes, but it's still far from being "basically the same thing"

[@theearshine8110]

I really appreciate you breaking down Amon so much, but I feel like your exquisite breakdown of the very flawed storytelling just proves Skittle's point. They not only didn't have time to tell a good story, but they didn't have the ability to tell a good political story. The later seasons show this more thoroughly as they had more time, but Amon not having any real ideology that's consistent is a very real problem. His backstory doesn't read well into his actions and motivations in the storyline, and the entirety of the intended audience took some form of fascism and/or communism feel from the scenes with Amon and the Equalists. If that wasn't the intention, the creators were impossibly ignorant.

[@HelloFutureMe]

I think you're missing my point here. My point is not that the writers didn't draw on communist and fascist ideas when building Amon. My point is that they drew on them for effect, to recall certain fears and certain feelings, and not because Amon is intended as 1:1 allegory as some people suggest. So treating it as 1:1 creates bad media criticism. People were right to say there are aesthetic similarities that invoke certain ideas, but not correct to say that Amon IS a critique of real-world communism. ~ Tim

[@StygianBeach]

Yeah, I agree with Kay and Skittles, the story is an insight to the politics of the writers. Socialists are as bad as fascists. Keep it status quo.

[@jeffsirloin2558]

in star wars, the Empire is actually a 1:1 allegory for the United States.

[@Smerpyderp]

Well, both the US and the Nazis took pages from each other’s books. But yes, I would say it better describes the US than Nazi Germany.

[@ryzigg7187]

This is why Korra season 1 was my favourite season by far Amon was fascinating like no other villain was in the series

[@isleep2dream762]

"Nobody cared who I was until I put on the mask"

[@gustavodeoliveira5254]

I still prefer the season 3, but season 1 is undoubtely very good (the second in my list). almost everything about it is compeling and well written

[@Ted2605]

He's a communist to people who just googled the definition of communism and read the first line

[@kingnothing5678]

Communist aren't people

[@nunyabidnes6010]

@@kingnothing5678 ok boomer

[@andalilbitqueer]

yeah, I mean that was the point of the K&s vid

[@fadran11]

When I first watched LoK, I expected it to basically be a Walmart AtLA, but this season *blew me away.* I was totally amazed by everything it had to offer. Great video!

[@swangrisly2148]

Season 3 was the one to change my mind about it being a "Walmart ATLA"😄😄😄

[@johnkronz7562]

Well... Martin Luther King was a socialist though. He focused on racial liberation first, but he was killed at a protest for garbage workers’ rights for a reason. Also, bending isn’t something immutable in the world of Avatar. Even before the first avatar episodes in later seasons of Korra, we see Ozai lose his bending without it being some sort of erasure of his person.

[@kiritugeorge4684]

Did you see Ozai after he lost his bending? The dude was wrecked...fundamentally no longer Ozai.

[@kiritugeorge4684]

Even in the comics you could see he wasn't really the same strong Ozai portrayed in the show.

[@johnkronz7562]

@@kiritugeorge4684 sure, but that was because Ozai is a pathological narcissist. It was his own self-destructive hunger for power that made his bending ability the bedrock of who he is. We see this with the triad guy who loses his powers too. But for most people who lose their powers, while it is a loss, it’s not an erasure of who they are. The police who lose their bending don’t just become near vegatative.

[@alyseleem2692]

@@johnkronz7562 Nope. They're probably just in deep depression. I know,there's a difference. Thing is,when you can feel the earth beneath your feet beating like a second heart,when you feel the warmth of flame in you,when you can feel the currents of the ocean coursing through your own veins, when you can feel as light and free as wind itself, that's not a feeling you'd let go of. Ever. That's not like caging a bird. It's like tearing off it's wings. It ain't something you can accept and live with.

[@DjinnandTonik]

Bending is treated as sacred in the universe, and its spiritual essence is objective rather than subjective like in our universe, since there is an actual spirit world and there powers are drawn from the natural world around them. Depriving someone of bending is framed as a violation, depriving someone of their culture and identity as well as physical ability.

[@tuumef1799]

This was a great deal of intellectual food. I enjoyed the thoroughness of exploration of all these concepts. It's amazing how much one depth your vids show.

[@constancegoldwing5867]

They could have really stretched Amon's storyline. Infact he should have been the antagonist for all four seasons. There was so much there to work with.

[@themediocremaster2388]

I really liked this video and Kay’s as well, and I feel like a lot of the “Amon is a communist!!” Comes out of the intense anti-communism in the USA, anything that approaches a class based critique of anything gets labeled communist, or is even if you’re just to the left of neoliberalism your a commie. I’ve personally always thought that Amon made more sense if you view him as a reactionary nationalist/fascist, but yeah you can’t really apply the politics of our world to the world of bending

[@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901]

He's a revolutionary liberal. He wants to get rid of a hereditary aristocracy who are viewed as impure due to that inheritance (in our world inbreeding) and he wants to get rid of that social privilege (having the right to be represented in the council for example) that defines them as a minority and then he has a belief that equality is essentially the highest goal in a post-aristocratic society. These ideas are all shared with french revolutionaries. Hell, it was the rich non-aristocrats who started the revolution and who were then turned on for having too many of the indicators of the aristocratic lifestyle, just as Amon, for also having the indicator of this world's aristocracy (bending) is soon abandoned after they realise that he shares this. I want to add that I don't think the writers tried to represent this ideology, they just inserted almost all the same themes as it had. Some of it is easier to compare with communism, as Amon being a bender may be better compared to Lenin being bourgeois

[@stehplatzb.4310]

The american left thinks anyone who osnt them is a commie

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Faschism = Communism + Nationalism.

[@Dark_Peace]

Imo, Amon is an egalitarian : everyone should have the same outcome regardless of their individuality. If you add the populist rhetoric that wanna look like a civil right movement but is just regressing society, you kinda get the woke movement.

[@iheartblock3792]

@@Dark_Peace “woke” go back to 2016 lmao

[@lonebattledroid4474]

Regardless if he is or not the real problem is there's no real injustice against nonbenders that we're shown. Thus making Amon and his Equalists less compelling Villains because it seems they're just fighting for a cause that isn't even real.

[@gabekeeter6415]

So they're cultural marxists then?

[@turkishbatman6901]

@@gabekeeter6415 yes

[@johnkronz7562]

There is a recognition at the end of the season that only allowing benders in government is messed up. It’s also suggested that nonbenders are generally poorer, since we only see one wealthy nonbender family compared to bending politicians, Korras comfy white lotus international life style, Tenzin “my family has their own island”, and the rich bending criminals.

[@pacingandmuttering5106]

@@gabekeeter6415 You know nobody actually identifies with that and it's just a strawman to demonize people who just want equal rights, right?

[@lonebattledroid4474]

@@johnkronz7562 I guess but the two most powerful and influential corporations Sato Inc. And Cabbage Corps. Are both owned by nonbenders. And in the homeless town there's a mixture of benders and nonbenders.

[@adamant7810]

Your videos always give me more appreciation for the story of Avatar and Korra and storytelling in general. Thank you for what you do!

[@YoGramGram1]

First off: brilliant video, I really think you hit the nail on the head and showed the work brilliantly. I wasn’t really a fan of Kay and Skittle’s video as I felt it gave into the aesthetic dog whistles of Amon too easily without giving a second or third thought to the entirety of the situation. Great follow up. Second off: damn now I really wish the entire series was based on these natural inequalities and season 2 focused on a post-Amon world. Having the resistance fracture into multiple groups after the loss of Amon with different takes on the ideology and movement would have been so much more nuanced than massive reality ending lasers.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

Ah Amon, the only villain in this sequel that I believed was actually good till they ruined him. It would've been better if he remained as a symbol of Fighting the Inequalities that non-benders faced, like "V" from "V for Vendetta." I.M.O., the "inequality" that the non-benders face is as fabricated as the "oppression" faced by the Faunus in RWBY. I don't recall any non-bender character in TLOK to ever complaing that benders had more advantages than they did. If anything, all the tech that non-benders have actually gives them the same advantages; they know how to make electricity, build, and even live without the need for bending, SO WHY WERE THIS WORLD'S EQUIVALENT OF MAGICIANS EVER A PROBLEM??? We aren't shown that non-benders have it worse than benders and even if we were, it apparently wasn't impactful enough to leave a lasting memory. Also, if the fact that Benders are a threat because of their magic is what the Equalists are really all about, then they wouldn't even be called "Equalists." Rather, they would be called something else that associates them with their goals of eradicating "the source of the world wars." It doesn't matter how many video essayists will dissect TLOK and call it "brilliant," the fact still remains that it was horribly put together. How would you like it if the Fire Lord was defeated in the first season of TLAB and they had to start out from scratch with a bigger more threatening villain for the next??? It gives the overall story a sense that there's no endgame planned since we'll just keep getting a new big bad next season. Just imagine how things would've turned out if TLOK was just focused on Benders vs Non-benders and what exactly the Avatar's place in the world would be if there's no imbalance between the Four Elements.

[@lucyandecember2843]

the moment the robot walked onto the screen i starte questioning "how did we get here" lol

[@perezo27]

"And the story, much more...compelling" I UNDERSTOOD THAT REFERENCE

[@lakobause]

Glad to see I’m not the only one who thought the end of S1 was rushed. There was so much they could’ve done with Amon’s backstory that just doesn’t get the room it needs. This whole time I thought he might have some backstory with Aang, the only other individual who could take bending, or maybe he made Tai Lee’s chi blocking permanent. Amon could’ve shown thought this technique to non-benders, putting real substance behind his ideology. Instead he turns out to be a bloodbender, which is weird because 1. There was never an indication bloodbending could do that, since bending doesn’t depend on blood flow, and 2. Amon turning out to be a bender makes him seem weirdly hypocritical or self-loathing. It’s a contradiction the writers never address.

[@belegl.7721]

This is a really great video, but I would vehemently disagree on a major point towards the beginning: It definently was and is a major anti-communist scare tactic that communism is going to erase your essential traits as individual, destroy the parts of you that make you special and become a faceless part of the collective. It's there all the way from the original Body Snatcher over the Borg to Zack Snyder's films and definetly echoes in Amon still. This is because at the heart of it, conservatism never really let go of the idea that your (proper) place in society is an innate characteristic and denying you that place is a violation of you as an individual.

[@Pantherblack]

GODDAMNIT THIS IS THE CONTENT THAT KEEPS ME COMING BACK

[@e1123581321345589144]

Ultimately it's a story about corruption. I love how they used the distinctive elements of the world to build a unique story about basic human weaknesses. It just adds up so well.

[@ZeldaWolf2000]

When I watch the first season, I couldn't help but relate the non-benders vs nonbenders as an allegory for disability rights. Although it's not the same population wise, because vendors are the minority, but sore people with disabilities, and able-bodied people to have inherent advantages over disabled people. There's a really interesting documentary called Crip camp on Netflix, if you'd like to learn more, but many similar things happened to us as the nonbenders in Avatar, Such as being taken advantage of, not having the same rights, not being able to, for lack of a better word, express our rights as other people could, and we're still fighting for a lot of that today. What do you think? Still recommend the documentary. Crip Camp on Netflix.

[@AnansisLibrary]

Also regardless of if they were trying to comment on communism or not, appropriating that imagery for their villain still causes that connection to be made, and still has some basis in anti-asian rhetoric as well.

[@zashgekido5616]

That.. Is the POINT of appropriating the imagery. Its not that the connection is non existent, its just not an exact parallel; Even on top of that its less directly a connection on communism itself and more so populism, people are just a bit trigger happy with Communism particularly.

[@aevum6667]

@@zashgekido5616 "We arent anti-communist we just use names, aesthetics, and visuals to evoke those feelings."

[@manuba_]

@@aevum6667 for real lmao I can't with these people defending Mike and Bryan

[@amberhide04]

In the end, Amon was an imposter, you could even say he was... Amon gus

[@echidnanatsuki882]

**Among Us Theme starts playing**

[@Tacom4ster]

Do an essay on Zaheer, that guy ain't an anarchist but an Oxymoron Anarcho Capitalist, he does not build class solidarity but just random stereotypical chaos

[@Padtedesco]

Individualism. He is the epitome of individualism. Stirner 101.

[@Tacom4ster]

@@Padtedesco that Beavis looking guy talking about spooks?

[@angela_merkeI]

At least we know that actual anarchists exist in ATLA. In S2 it's mentioned that there's an anarchist cell in Ba Sing Se.

[@ChaosLierLen]

Sorry but I don't remember Zaheer pushing for capitalism at all. And those acts of chaos seem much more in line with black block anarchists.

[@ScamwatchDallin]

At what point was Zaheer an ancap, and how do you define that as being an oxymoron?

[@Tarathiel123]

I have a master's degree in the evolution of communist practices in different countries and the cultural reasons that account for the differences of socialism/communism. There is certainly a positioning of benders as imperialists exploiting non-benders but...that's about where the similarities end I'd say. Amon is more akin to Bane and anarchists then trying to, and this is important, redistribute the means of production to the people. He could be at best an ultra-nationalist based around a specific ethno-centric requirements, meaning he is more fascist than communist. As an example Hiroshi wasn't giving up his company, he just wanted to remove benders, this fusion of a 'brownshirt' like movement and companies is more like what happened in Germany. There was more about intolerance and targeting observable groups. I won't go too into it here, but I agree its more populism/fascism than it is communism. There is no 1-1 equation.

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

While Amon did want to do away with the hierarchy that places benders above non-benders, his use of bending shows he wanted to create a different hierarchy, with him at the top and everyone else at the bottom. Then there is the part where he wasn't trying to move towards a stateless society or remove all hierarchies, such as wealth and ability hierarchies. To call him an anarchist is...a stretch at best.

[@lexsduck6892]

thats a pretty cool masters to have

[@iheartblock3792]

@@casteanpreswyn7528 yes, making him more like a fascist

[@briancarter9927]

your atla video essays are so fun to listen to

[@internetperson436]

I find it interesting how for an example of non communist movements that used equality as a rallying cry you showed Martin Luther King given that fact that he was a socialist

[@BowNow]

I really like your interpretation of this and definitely gets me to view S01 in an even better light (which is saying something since it's my favourite of the Korra series already). Obviously a fantasy world is going to have its own internal logics, and that a philosophy like Communism from IRL would not have a one-to-one comparison in it. In having said that, I do think Kay and Skittles is accurate in pointing out that "The Boys" do purposely (and erroneously) lump in ill-informed critiques and allegories of what they'd probably view as left-wing populist philosophies (communism and anarchism being the ones Kay and Skittles points out). As you say Amon and the Equalists do not represent actual Communist philosophies, but considering how prevalent calling anything left-of-centre "communist" or "socialist" is... well, lets just say I wouldn't be shocked if Konietzko and DiMartino fell into that same pattern, unfortunately.

[@finndelimatamay1983]

Personally, I find it really funny that everyone thinks that any vaguely thought-out idea in a piece of fiction must therefore have a real counterpart in our world. The fact that Amon's philosophy _doesn't_ have a parallel in our world is the exactly what (I feel) makes it interesting. It's not communism, or socialism, or whatever. It's Amonism.

[@chazjohannsen]

More like “AMON-unism!” I’ll see myself out.

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

sokka? is that you?

[@zbh9268]

Somebody had to say it.

[@musicaleuphoria8699]

I mean, lots of figures have their ideologies named after them. So it's not far off.

[@madiii3279]

cue bad joke amon meme template

[@funybirbman3813]

Communism with bending characteristics

[@TheSkyline77]

I'd have to disagree here I think. At least in the US, we talk wayyyy more about the aesthetic of communism than the actual ideology. He's basically what an American capitalist thinks a communist is editing as I get further through the video: Those things like "losing part of who you are" is something we're told communism does in the states. We're told that communism destroys everyone as individuals and takes from others in the name of equality (sometimes we're also told that certain groups of anti-racist groups do the same).

[@co-bruh1423]

No he is very much a communist. He tries to take away things from others to uplift others but it’s really only to oppress the people that had more than he did.

[@eduardoserpa1682]

@@co-bruh1423 That's an incredibly vague, general description, further illustrating the point made by the other guy.

[@wintermiller4845]

@@co-bruh1423 *eyeroll* Benders don't have to steal their power from others. That's the difference between inherent physical advantage and wealth.

[@co-bruh1423]

@@wintermiller4845 *eyeroll* you need to read that again

[@leiferikson850]

@@wintermiller4845 this implies wealth can only come from thievery. This assumption is wrong. A more correct comparison would be inherited advantages (powers = inherited wealth [born in a rich family])

[@00SecretII]

Im so glad you made this video. Since watching the Kay and Skittles video, my biggest critique on how people view amon as an analog to communism was that amon actually is a better mirror for fascism and nazism in particular in our world. Obviously not a perfect mirror, but I always read the use of communistic imagery by amon and the equalists to more accurately be a representation of how the Nazis coopted socialist and communist messaging and imagery to gain more support with the German working class who were sympathetic to the socialists and communists. For those who dont know some examples of how the nazis coopted socialist imagery in clude, the use of the color red (down to the specific shade they used) which was associated with the socialist movements before the Nazis, and in the term Nazi, they used the word socialist in their party name to fool people into thinking that their party is in some way aligned with the working class. Obviously these turned out to be huge lies. One thing that i kind of wished the writers of korra considered doing was to show that not all benders are super wealthy and explore more of the bending "working class" that we get a glimpse of with Mako in the electricity factory. Also another parallel with the Nazis is the fact that although they are a movement that nominally calls for equality, they heavily aligned themselves with the ultra wealthy elites of their "race" (non-bending), Sato for example. Although the lack of a parallel multiethnic (benders and non benders) working class party or movement that had less traction would have possibly made this more clear. I dont fault the writers for this due to the limited time they had to make the season, just i feel like adding another movement like this would have made their ideology more clear and stop people from being like, uhhh amon is bad because he is communist, when he isnt that

[@spencerwillits2766]

8:40: "Our world doesn't really have inherent physical advantages and pervasive as bending." What you just described is ableism, the inherent privilege of able bodied people over disabled people. There *is* in fact a globe-spanning population oppressed for the physical abilities they lack. We call them disabled people. The only difference is that they're a minority, not a majority.

[@johnyjack9486]

This whole discussion reminds me of Tolkien's rant about the difference between allegory and applicability. People latch onto similarities to a thing and conclude that the text s therefore a metaphor of that thing, and that any part that doesn't actually a flaw of the metaphor rather than of their reading of the text... Off-topic (kinda) but one element that I find fascinating with Amon is the tension that his rhetoric presents for the viewer. Amon believes that bending is at the root of evil in his society, but we the viewers live in a world where bending doesn't exist and yet has these same evils. We know that his logic doesn't work, yet it is credible that it would be effective rhetoric in universe.

[@stehplatzb.4310]

Thank you so much for the rain track at the end of your videos. I feel cared for when I hear it

[@delthor9574]

Great analysis. Trying to apply allegories 1-1 often falls apart in situations where a 1-1 allegory wasn't intended. I think another element here that you didn't touch on is that there are parallels in the real world involving the kind of difference in inherent physical ability we see between benders and non-benders. That being disability in the real world. This analogy falls apart even more quickly because there's nothing like the political revolution we see from Amon, and benders are the minority in Avatar while able bodied and neurotypical people are the majority in our world. I think it does fit better than viewing bending as "an inherent, unchanging part of yourself." Someone who loses the ability to walk or see is still themself, even if they're no longer as capable of something they care deeply about like sports or painting. Naturally, it's still awful to hurt someone in this way. They also don't really touch on any former benders adjusting to non-bender life in the show to parallel people adjusting to a disability they ended up with later in life. I'm probably stumbling over the language a bit, since I'm not that knowledgeable in this area. I just wanted to point out another parallel that adds more layers to this. I think this sort of analysis of trying to tease out all the different elements in a narrative is really fun, and is usually a better approach than trying to make it fit only a single 1-1 analogy.

[@JamaicaZ160R1793010A]

Completely.

[@gre3nishsinx0Rgold4]

This is just amazing. I also hope HFM tackles the great unifier.

[@Erik-pu4mj]

It only now occurs to me, after watching Daniel Greene's stuff, that the arrows next to the quotes (5:18) could be specifically to help people with dyslexia. If so, hell yeah, Tim.

[@lucyandecember2843]

o.o

[@Daemonworks]

I see see religious parallels especially re: the impurity angle. There's a strong faith healer vibe in his presentation, and the bending is the root of all evil thing... not to mention "amon is the answer" is a very religious, even cultish, sentiment. And the avatar's own authority, if not their power, is basically religious.

[@alyseleem2692]

True. We needed some elaboration on their origins. Speaking of origins, I don't like his backstory. Shows he's a hypocrite.

[@smsk2278]

i just finished watching the 6th star wars movie for the first time... "darth vadar having a redemption arc at end.. " dogged a bullet lol

[@medelicityliu7934]

I've always loved how well organized these analysis are, it's very entertaining and easy to listen to ^^

[@Necrodancer1312]

"...and if you believe those things, get the hell out." Thank you.

[@battybuddy]

Honestly I think it's more that Amon represents a lot of ASPECTS that are NOTICABLE in communism. As well as OTHER ideologies. But he himself represents those aspects, and not the ideologies.

[@burmiester1]

Right, nobody's saying that Amon is a textbook communist any more than Kuvira is a textbook fascist. There is no Marx or Mussolini in the LOK world so therefore neither ideology can exist. But Amon's ideology is quite similar to the basic premise of communism, and Tarrlok's crackdown on the Equalists is an obvious parallel to Mussolini and Hitler's crackdown on the communists. You also have to take into account the fact that communism was a global movement that was quite popular in the early 1900s (roughly when LOK takes place). I have a problem with how people are so quick to write off the Amon-communism parallels because it's clear that they exist.

[@battybuddy]

@ナノ人 Well, it makes sense in ANY world when you have established differences in people. It's OTHERING, and it's always done, just in different ways.

[@user-me5fh3yu1j]

I find it interesting how so many stories develop around inequalities in society that just don't exist for the simple reason that everyone is physically the same, and so their critiques don't work as parallels for any one thing. I feel it makes more sense to view Amon as a product of Avatar's worldbuilding and a way for Tarlok to show far more real parallels to society with what you mentioned about people having more or less power to exercise their rights.

[@JrTheDragon01]

I recently watched Korra with my partner and was thinking about how their original face-value aims seem quite egalitarian, and the imagery used seems evocative of Communism, but clearly Amon ends up espousing Fascist ideology, and how it feels somewhat like the Nazi party where they espoused the guise of socialism in order to garner popular support, even though their end goal was not equality but superiority. That made me super excited to see this video pop up in my feed, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you have to say!

[@JrTheDragon01]

Following up on this, definitely think you make a really solid case that while there are ideological parallels to some belief systems in our world, the fact that Amon's ideas centre around a distinction that just doesn't exist in our world makes it inadequate to just say "Amon is an X".