The Philosophy of Science Fiction and Fantasy (with Christopher Ruocchio)

In episode 257 of the Parker's Pensées Podcast, I'm joined by Christopher Ruoccio, author of the Sun Eater series. Christopher is an encyclopedia of science fiction, fantasy, and Roman Empire information. He is the man. A really thoughtful guy and a brilliant writer.
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0:00 - Why people love the Sun Eater books
6:13 - CS Lewis vs Tolkien on teaching through fiction
14:52 - The Golden Age vs the New Wave of Science Fiction
24:05 - Dune
41:00 - Are Superheroes Science Fiction?
45:18 - What is Science Fantasy, Space Opera, SF vs Sci-Fi
56:52 - Favorite SF stories
1:03:40 - is it okay to borrow from other stories?
1:12:47 - Scholiasts, Mentats, and Analytic Philosophy
1:20:54 - Roman Catholicism and the Chantry
1:35:34 - How to Write Science Fiction Novels

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[@tr5676]

If y’all can find more stuff to talk about, plz have him on again sometime. This is one of his best podcast appearances amidst all of his other great ones

🙌 thank you!! I've got loads more to ask him!

[@reggieswilliams]

It would be so could if Christopher's series got picked up for the big screen. He seems so genuine. I hope it makes it big time.

I feel the same way!

[@riotminuet]

This is the best Christopher podcast to date. Well done sir.

Thank you! I was hoping to get a lot outta him and he didn't disappoint. Helps that we have so many similar interests. Would love to get him on more

[@billyalarie929]

Yeah this podcast with Chris is something special. It goes DEEP.

[@dreero_]

Christopher is easily one of my favourite authors and I think that throughout the Sun Eater he walks a very fine line of not preaching his own beliefs, but still incorporating them into his world in fun or intriguing ways. (Disquiet Gods in particular.) As a person who isn't religious and who doesn't really believe in a god I think that he pulls it off masterfully. He also just seems like a super smart and level headed guy and I always enjoy listening to him talk about anything from his writing to religion.

[@Belemrys]

I am glad you reached out to him! Looking forward to listen to this!

It was a serious treat talking with him. He's the man

[@pappywinky4749]

Oh this is dope, I love Sun Eater. One of the best series out there.

Totally agree!

[@VenturesBeyond]

Christopher is such a compelling guy, love your collective takes on the genre. Just finished reading Dune for the first time, it was thought provoking, but I love to see how even though it came out in 1965 it still has such a huge impact on modern science fiction!

I really like this dude. You can tell he's super sharp just buy how fast he responds lol. Can't wait to talk with him more

[@jeremyinvictus]

This guy mentioning that he likes Gene Wolfe is enough for me to give this series a try.

I got Shadow and Claw in the mail today because of Ruocchio lol

[@jeremyinvictus]

@ good call. Later in his life he wrote a duology called The Wizard Knight which is sort of an imagining of the medieval Christian Knight in a more Norse pagan setting and it is also quite good. Not scifi though, just fantasy.

[@Belemrys]

@I read BotNS and Dune because of Ruocchio, the man is great!

[@terabyter9000]

I'm supposed to be reading Chapter 6 of Superintelligence by Nick Bostrom but I can't stop watching this interview.

Haha I feel this!

[@roodkaak771]

such a great podcast interview. thank you very much.

So glad you liked it! I hope to get him back on soon l, he's so fun to talk with

[@pattube]

1. Ooh this looks like it'll be fun to watch! I'll watch it soon. Thanks for doing this interview, Parker. 😊 2. By the way, have you ever read Asimov's Foundation series? Tim O'Reilly has a good piece partly comparing Dune and Foundation in chapter 5 of his Frank Herbert biography (available to read online for free): "Dune is clearly a commentary on the Foundation trilogy. Herbert has taken a look at the same imaginative situation that provoked Asimov's classic - the decay of a galactic empire - and restated it in a way that draws on different assumptions and suggests radically different conclusions. The twist he has introduced into Dune is that the Mule, not the Foundation, is his hero." O'Reilly says more in his chapter and book, and he includes quotations from Herbert himself about how he views history and science and so forth. It's worth a read.

Wow this is awesome. I'm actually reading the trilogy right now mostly as a way to better understand Dune and Star Wars haha what a timely comment! I just finished Foundation and started Foundation and Empire. Asimov is so wonderful. His End of Eternity is one of my all-time favorite books

I actually have a copy of O'Reilly's book that I plan to go through in prep for my SF channel. Launching that channel asap

[@pattube]

That's awesome, Parker! I can't wait for your launch, that'll be amazing! 😀 Just a few more thoughts: 1. I believe John Frame points out in his History of Western Philosophy and Theology that in intellectual history there is a back and forth between rationalism and irrationalism (by many different names throughout history such as modernism and postmodernism) where one generation preferences rationalism while the subsequent generation preferences irrationalism. I think that's true of the Golden Age scifi writers like Heinelin, Clarke, and Asimov in contrast to the New Wave scifi writers like Philip K. Dick, Frank Herbert, Roger Zelazny, Ursula Le Guin, Brian Aldiss. Consider Foundation where science and rationalism reign supreme and in fact science and rationalism are used to perfectly predict the course of history in contrast to Dune where even the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry (e.g. Herbert paralleled the Bene Gesserit and the Kwisatz Haderach with the Foundation scientists and the Mule). Again, one generation thinks rationalism reigns supreme, while the next generation casts doubt on rationalism in favor of irrationalism. 2. If you haven't already, see also The Maker of Dune (edited by Tim O'Reilly). It's a collection of essays by Frank Herbert where Herbert in essence spells out his philosophy of Dune and ecology and so forth. 3. While we're on the topic, Kim Stanley Robinson wrote his PhD thesis or dissertation on Philip K. Dick. He later published it as a book called The Novels of Philip K. Dick. That's another interesting little book.

[@utaheaton]

I enjoy this series can’t wait for the last 2 books 📖 I enjoyed the audiobooks

The guy who read them for audible was so good

[@levisimpson516]

I enjoy the part where you're both discussing what you could and couldn't watch growing up in the homes you did. My wife was raised in an evangelical house hold and it was very much the same way, big no to Harry Potter for sure. Though over time and after reading the books her mom has sense become a big Harry Potter fan along with LOTR and Star Wars. It's such a contrast to my home life growing up which was very much aa non religious household. The most I would get from religion would be from my Catholic grandparents when we would stay the night with them but that was it. Great interview man, really enjoyed it and I really enjoyed the Silent Empire book as well and look forward to continuing the story. Cheers.

[@LeftHandedWords]

Liked the ROTJ reference at 54:23. Great interview!

Thanks bro! 🫡🫡

[@th3ist]

sci-fi feels: i will kill you at a distance! fantasy feels: i will kill you in melee combat!

🙌

[@hvitekristesdod]

Dune feels: why not both?

[@terabyter9000]

Haha the closed caption thought Christopher said that he likes Animology instead of Etymology.

😅

[@AustinMFreeman]

Digimon needs to be part of the conversation!

Yu gi oh was the other one I was trying to think of too lol

[@hvitekristesdod]

“We are myth-killers you and I” - Leto II

🙌🙌🙌

[@TheIsaacLester]

For whoever needs to see this, *there are no coincidences*. Go scoop the book and do a deep dive of your own as well! :)

🙌🙌👏

[@sit-insforsithis1568]

Haha I also whent from Harry Potter to Tolkien. But I was like 14, and I tried reading lotr but it was too much for me then, tried again. At an older age and loved it! I also love the translations in Dutch. Both Harry Potter and lotr are amazingly translated ❤

Did you read them in both English and Dutch??

[@sit-insforsithis1568]

@ yes, and some words I didn’t understand but most I did. In Harry Potter I’ve read the first 4 books also in English, the other ones only in Dutch but I’m buying the illustrated books so eventually I will read the last 3 in English too.

[@IntuitiveElegance]

Would love to see more Analytic Philosophy stuff as you used to do earlier!

There are like 200 episodes of analytic philosophy lol and I just did one with Ross Inman loke 4 episodes back

[@grn7522]

Really did him dirty with that thumbnail haha

[@CoranceLChandler]

Via audible I still listen to at least one sci-fi or fantasy book a week, combine that with philosophy, and I'm in literary heaven. 😊 Ps: the sun eater is available on Audible.

I actually just got audible just to finish Sun Eater cuz I was running out of time

[@CoranceLChandler]

Just finished the book four. By the stars that was heavy, possibly the heaviest book of fiction I have ever read. I'm going to have to let it digest for a few days.

[@LordTywin-yh5ne]

Parker and Ruocchio??? No way !

Haha that's right! He's the man!

[@billyalarie929]

1:41:07 ridiculous that I need a time stamp with 12 mins left but here we are

😆 so close

[@this_alec]

Great conversation! Makes me more excited to read this series. Do I see Zavala there on the shelf behind you?

[@this_alec]

I want Destiny novels by someone as philosophically minded as Ruocchio.

[@nico0826]

You are starting to get that Nietzsche ‘stache

Yeah It's getting unruly lol

[@AndrewMacDonald-fg7bu]

The comment about a potential hardcover reprint is the best thing I've heard all week....

😂🫡🤝

[@th3ist]

dude your stache almost reaches fantasy level

🤣🤣 that's a compliment I won't soon forget

[@MusicEnjoyerSLS]

I'm glad that you asked him about the chantry. I got turned off by it personally. I read EoS specifically because I knew Christopher was a Catholic, but the depiction of religion in it is entirely negative. I'm looking forward to reading the next book though.

I knew I had to ask about that. So glad it helped you too!

[@Belemrys]

Yeah the true search for true religion is the series as a whole! Keep going!

[@kahnlives]

“The Great Divorce” 👍

🫡

[@AndrewMacDonald-fg7bu]

Love Out of the Silent Planet. Rereading Perelandra right now.

[@sesshowmarumonoke]

Nice pirate beard

My mustache?

[@sesshowmarumonoke]

@ yes

[@Wackyo]

You seem like genuine guys, but the discussion on how Frank Herbert messed up was a poor look to say the least.

I love Frank Herbert, I think I own 17 different copies of Dune. Just pointing out that he wrote such a compelling story that had to keep writing until he was finally able to make his point against tyrannical leaders in God Emperor of Dune

[@Jays-Days]

party note. if you play "take a drink every time Chris says, "um," you will die. alcohol poisoning is real, kids. Don't do it.

[@AtiShard16]

Sun Eater wasn’t for me. Red Rising is more my speed. Maybe I have a low attention span 😂

The first quarter of the first book was a bit of a slog I'll admit 😅

[@goodluckiz2669]

Correct

[@bryson2662]

Christopher is setting off a lot of red flags for me during the discussion of Dune and our response to heroes. The point is Hitler's come from charismatic leaders appealing to people who just want answers. Charismatic leaders and heroes shouldn't be worshipped, they should be questioned. This honestly makes me scared for the rest of the sun eater series I've yet to read. Paul and Alexander the great look cool on first glance but the first response should be "why, and how do I fight it"

Well luckily it's a book series, so no need to be scared lol

[@bryson2662]

@ huh?

[@user-wi3us6ks5h]

having such a singular view of charismatic leaders is result of propaganda not any better than propaganda that kind of leader would employ ​@@bryson2662

[@user-wi3us6ks5h]

Youre single minded view of charismatic leaders is result of same kind of proganda this leaders would employ

[@threemeters1425]

charisma=bad the more charisma you have, the more badder you are

[@AndrewMacDonald-fg7bu]

Why can't you say 'Hitler'. Real question. I'm not a KZbin person.

I don't care as much as others but I think tiktok and maybe Instagram suppress your content if trigger words show up and I think this mentality has spilled over into KZbin but idk how real the threat is on this platform