The Pilot Who Was Flying Blind | The Crash Of Knight Air 816

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This is the story of Knight Air Flight 816. On the morning of may the 25th 1995, An Embraer 110 landed at the airport in Leeds from a flight from aberdeen. Once on the ground the plane was worked on, some routine maintenance nothing too complex, this was all in preparation for the plane’s flight back to aberdeen. The plane was brought to the terminal and 9 passengers boarded the plane. As they prepped the pilots kept an eye on the weather. The visibility was at 1,100 meters or 3600 feet and the clouds were low at 400 feet. The air was cold and everything was wet, A storm had just passed through the area. But it was still safe to fly.
By 4:41 pm the engines were started and the plane backtracked down the runway as flight 816 made its way to runway 14. Once at the runway ATC cleared them to take off. ATC instructed the pilots to take off and to maintain the runway heading of 143.
The plane lifted off into the gloomy afternoon and as it ascended the clouds swallowed the plane. Just a few minutes into the flight, the controllers could see that flight 816 was not adhering to their instructions, the plane was in a slight turn to the left, instead of maintaining the runway heading. A radio transmission came through from flight 816 “knightway 816, weve got a problem with the artificial horizon we'd like to come back” The artificial horizon is a very important piece of equipment. When youre in good weather you can just look out the window and get a sense for how the plane is oriented in 3D space, you can tell if youre pitching up or down, turning left or right all by looking at the horizon. But if youre flying at night or in very bad weather where you can't see the horizon, the artificial horizon tells you how your plane is oriented. If youre in instrument conditions without an artificial horizon you really have no way of telling what your plane is doing.
The air traffic controller told the crew to fly due north, but the plane was having a hard time following instructions, it turned left and then right all while banking sharply. The plane was handed to the approach controller at leeds. The controller tells the crew “I see you carrying out an orbit, just tell me what I can do to help!”. The first officer's reply was “are we going straight at the moment sir”, the pilots couldn't tell if they were level or not, the approach controller would have to be their eyes. The controller looked at his radar screen and told the crew that they were in a slight right hand turn. He then asked the crew to turn left to a heading of 340. At that moment they were flying in a south easterly direction so they needed to make a left turn. Once out of the left turn they were heading north and the approach controller verified that they were level. Things seemed to be going their way. The first officer asked the controller if he had any information on the cloud tops. Getting out of the clouds would allow them to navigate visually. The controller immediately starts contacting planes in the area to get an idea about the altitude of the cloud tops. In between this he glanced at his radar screen just to double check that the plane was in level flight, on one of these checks he saw that the plane had begun a left turn. It dropped from 3600 feet to 2900 feet in about 25 seconds. The left turn tightened as the plane lost altitude and before long the plane dropped off of radar.
A few residents of Duneswick moor looked up to see a fireball falling out of the clouds, flight 816 crashed just north of Dunkeswick. None of the 12 people on board made it.

[@davidtucker3729]

spatial disorientation is tough. As a diver I have been in cloudy water and used my depth gauges (2) to be sure which way is up and don't even talk about cave or wreck diving where you cannot be sure which way is up. I would expect the added fear of moving at hundreds of KPH at the same time would be much worse. I feel for those pilots and it is a tragedy that they were not able to be saved. Well told Mini !!

[@RedPandaPhoto]

Losing any instrument in IMC is tough. You really have to be disciplined in keeping a good instrument scan going. The one thing you can't do is use the physical feelings about what you think the aircraft is doing. That's how you get into spatial disorientation. You have to trust the instruments and use all of them, together, to figure out the bad one and what the aircraft is doing. In this case, you use the compass/HSI and turn coordinator to figure out if the aircraft is turning, and the altimeter and airspeed to figure out if it is climbing or descending. Flying by the "seat of your pants" in IMC gets you killed.

[@StephenKarl_Integral]

I'm not a pilot (I play flightsim), but that's exactly what I though watching the video. Since ATP, FS5 up to FSX with other passionnated flightsimmers, we used to have flying blind and reduced instruments contests (no ILS and no throttle lever indication for eg.) Won most of the contests over the decades. I'm aware simulation is nowhere close to reallife, but it's fairly similar : loop scan the instruments and translate the informations into space, positions and motions. Not to brag about (nobody cares) but, I tend to disagree on the difficulty level to rule out which instrument is faulty : course tells you if you're turning, why do you ask ATC ? BTW, I always tune on some navaids (never prioritized GPS, I love to read charts and tune in NAV1, NAV2 and ADF, basic triangulation) You know (relatively) where you are, scan HSI (Course, NAV1, NAV2), ADF, Artificial horizon to correct level, a plane easily make a roll in a matter of seconds. Rule out any instrument not compliant with other information at the 3rd or 4th scan. When you know you're stable (no significant turns), altimeter (you have 3 instruments usually), maintain power and observe speed (and flaps, landing gear, spoilers). If it goes up, you're likely in a dive. As long as you don't slow down keep going (climbing), monitor engine instruments and go back securing level. Repeat, just go straight until you have a visual cue (sun position - give your eyes time to adapt, don't mistake a dark cloud spot for the sky). When you cleared the fog, ask for vectors to VMC divert, don't try to land in the soup. Priority is to not going CFIT, as long as you are not on fire or fuel starve, the plane flies. I know I'm very old school, but the basic is always "fly the damn plane". If there are two of you out there, one must fly and no other thing, no matter a passenger has died or who made the last maintainance on that horizon, fly ! If you're alone, unless ATC tells you "you have terrain ahead", just fly (ie, use every inch of every relevant instrument). Maybe because I live in a third world country where most planes doesn't have Garmin GPS and only a handful VOR are equipped with DME (we use NDBs), I find it astonishing how some youger fellow simmers dare to ignore the existence of NAV2 and ADF (and other "old" instruments). That's just asking to die.

[@jean-claudepecqueur625]

Basic way of flying with partial panel save your skin !!! Turn-"coordinator : kick same side of the ball in order to center it .. so you know instantly which way you are banking , then level the wings then block the needle of the altimeter ( very accurate )...it takes 5s forget the attitude indicator in such situation because it ’s confusing ,,,then resume your flight...

[@bingosunnoon9341]

@@jean-claudepecqueur625 That is not how it's done. The ball does not indicate bank.

[@jean-claudepecqueur625]

Correct ! What you have to know : ball centered means your flight is correct ( no slip / no skid ...) so the turn and coordinator will you indicate immediatly wich way you are banking ...( more confusing with the attitude indicator when steep bank ) ... If you ignore this basic I will not give you a plane !

[@peterstickney7608]

A correction on the Turn Indicator - The vertical needle shows the direction and rate of turn. It's run off its own internal gyro. The ball shows how well coordinated (Slip or skid) your turns are. Needle and Ball centered is wings level. AIrspeed,. Altimeter, and Rate of Climb will tell you whether you are climbing or descending.

[@Redspeare]

To elaborate a bit more. When turning, you use the stick to bank the aircraft in the direction you want to go, then apply rudder in the same direction. The idea is to keep the ball centered. For example, in a left turn, if the ball is to the left of center, you add more left rudder. If it's to right, you reduce your rudder input. This is called "stepping on the ball". If you apply opposite rudder, you induce a side slip. This can be a useful maneuver, particularly on a final approach with a cross wind. There is a very good book on flying called "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langeiwiesche.

[@ComradeCovert]

@@Redspeare amazing explanation, i've never flown a plane in my life and I completely understood it

[@GratuitousSets]

The explanation about the”turn indicator” is entirely incorrect. Rate of turn info comes from the NEEDLE, not the ball. The ball indicates quality of turn ONLY. The instrument is actually called a “turn coordinator” or “turn and slip indicator” and all instrument pilots are trained in flying “partial panel”. It is not called “limited panel” I really enjoy these videos, but I couldn’t hold my tongue on this one🥲

[@SLGY]

phew, I was about to write a long comment pointing this out too but someone's already onto it, thankyou!

[@GratuitousSets]

@@SLGY LOL

[@kirkmorrison6131]

I was also, the comment was even better thought out than mine

[@kkfoto]

Both terms are used. *Limited panel* - A part of instrument flying training in which certain instruments are not available to pilots. These could be one or more gyro instruments and/or one or more pressure instruments. Limited panel flying is used to train pilots in the art of instrument flying and to simulate failure of one or more instruments. [An Illustrated Dictionary of Aviation, McGraw-Hill, 2005]

[@GratuitousSets]

@@kkfoto I'm an instrument rated Commercial pilot with about 4500 hours. I've never heard it called "limited panel"

[@joecummings1260]

It's one thing to do partial panel during training, but when things start going wrong fast, you're in a death spiral, and panic starts to set in, you start making a lot of mistakes that you probably would not have. I'm sure lots of partial panel training would definitely help if you did it regularly. but I got to tell you I seen a lot of normally calm cool and collected guys including myself start making mistakes when the panic sets in

[@cooperised]

0:38 "The air was cold, and everything was wet." Yep, sounds like an average day at LBA.

[@Capecodham]

LBA?

[@economics12]

@@Capecodham Leeds Bradford Airport

[@Capecodham]

@@economics12 Right of course everybody knows that. Not.

[@bikeny]

@@Capecodham I'm guessing in England. Cause I didn't know either.

[@Capecodham]

@@bikeny That means you are not one of the cool and hip guys that like to flash how smart they are.

[@kevinbarry71]

I believe the pilots entered what is referred to as a graveyard spiral. Because you start spiraling downwards and you are oblivious to this, and of course it ends in the graveyard

[@WalkerWeathers]

Yes, the leans often do develop into a graveyard spiral given enough time. Pilots see a descent on the altimeter, so they pull back on the controls to stop it, but this only works if you are level. Pulling back in a turn tightens it making the situation worse. This is why instrument use and redundancy is so critical.

[@Anubis7169]

This is why Kobe died :/

[@malcolmmccrimmon7032]

@@Anubis7169 no

[@erictaylor5462]

2:00 It's even worse than that. When you are in a moving vehicle you can be subjected to the accelerations (changes in velocity, not just speeding up) your body is subjected to. You can feel like you are in a bank, or pitched up or down when you are, in fact, level. You try to correct for the bank or pitch and end up disoriented. The feeling of being in a bank gets worse so you steepen the bank, and start tu pull up. Than can put you into a "death spiral" that can end on the ground, or as happened recently, tearing the wings off. There was a recent Moony crash where a witness took a picture of the plane a split second before impact. The plane is a couple of feet above the ground and both wings are folded up like a carrier fighter. The wings of a Moony don't fold up like that.

[@thatguyalex2835]

This reminds me of a college physics class that I took three years ago, where we were told about accelerometers. So I made my own accelerometer, and when I accelerated, the pendulum moved to a position. However, rapid changed in acceleration made it unreadable. So, using a pendulum in a cockpit to measure how level a plane is would probably be a bad idea. I enjoy science, technology and physics, so this is one reason I watch aviation channels. RIP to all those on this flight.

[@niku30504]

Flying in cloud with no artificial horizon……. That’s a nightmare! 😱

[@offgridcabin1557]

sticking a string on the roof in front of you can help you maintain a horizon. That's the same way gliders used to do it. The string hangs down, if it is hanging slightly left and back, you are in a slow upwards turn to port. If the string is pointing slightly forward, you are descending. This has saved many lives.

[@niku30504]

@@offgridcabin1557 I have no glider experience, but I did try the string method on my PPL training. Yes, it does help. However, in this accident case, I think it’s physically impossible to stick a string outside the cockpit. They didn’t have enough time either. 🤔

[@hugodeckers3880]

@@niku30504 I think you mean INSIDE the cockpit. Just in front of you... But.. would it have been possible for the atc or a secondary atc to Just monitor the plane so that the pilots could gain hight to get out of a dangerous low flight level? Such a waste of lives this plane crash was... Rip alle diceased and good luck for all their loved ones 😢

[@niku30504]

@@hugodeckers3880 OK, I misunderstood. I was thinking of “yaw string”. You stick a thread OUTSIDE of the windshield in the center, and it will tell you if you are in a coordinated turn or in a slip turn. Now, in this case, hanging a thread INSIDE the cockpit. Yes, it may work in a glider. However, it may not work for a bigger aircraft, because there is a lot of air conditioning airflow circulating in the cockpit. As for the ATC helping them by using radar…… the pilot was actually getting help from ATC, but it didn’t work. The special disorientation was probably too overwhelming.

[@esencialidad5065]

I disagree: not a nightmare, a matter of proficiency. See my comment above about flying that way for an hour at a time.

[@brandanshoemaker2626]

Very interesting. In flight training we are taught to use supporting instruments such as turn coordinater, altimeter and heading indicator to avoid a graveyard spiral such as this.

[@itisunusual6412]

This was my local airport at the time. Most of the attention at the time focused on the weather A lightning strike was initially mooted and it was said some other aircraft had opted not to fly at the time. The real culprit proved to be different but any cloud turbulence cannot have helped. The airline soon ceased scheduled operations.

[@jeralddunn3782]

You do not use the ball to keep the wings level. The ball is only for coordinating the rudder. It's the turn needle that indicates a turn. You can also use the gyrocompass and then a worst-case scenario you can use the whiskey compass. That's why we spend hours and hours practicing partial panel.

[@kenbellchambers4577]

My dad was a RCAF airman. He served as a wireless operator/machine gunner on a Catalina. He told me when I was a little boy that many pilots crashed because they didn't believe their instruments. The value of flight simulators can be understood very well, especially in relation to overcoming spatial disorientation. This video gave me a rather frightening feeling as the plane was diving, out of control. At 8:55 through to 9:07 is a wonderfully well done animation, the birds eye shot of the front of the plane as it was turning into the parking area was brilliant. Thanks. Hope we have electric planes in service soon. P.S. Forgive my being pedantic but excetera is not a word. The correct words are et cetera which means roughly, 'and so on'. If 'excetera was a word, it would mean the opposite.

[@TheNewAccount2008]

Very interesting video. I have been in pretty much the same situation, back when I was a sports pilot. And I can fully agree: Good training, and immense focus make all the difference in such a situation. It's just unfortunate that those pilots did apparently not have that...

[@kde9910]

This is why you train your partial panel skills regularly...

[@4braid]

Really? I've recently retired after 35 years of airline flying and never did it as there was no turn and slip to practice on! Not only that, 95% of recurrent training is done using the autopilot and the small bit of hand flying (manual ILS) is done using the flight director. Raw data is an optional exercise!

[@Ronin4614]

This was a real nightmare. I am wondering if they made any attempt to see if simple L & R turns showed and significant change in altitude? Asking GC if the plane is level is scary to hear. Very interesting video, and thank you.

[@BloodSteyn]

My father trained many pilots. He would let them experience spatial disorientation by having them close their eyes to fly by "Feeling" the plane. They would start to bank a bit, feel it and correct. Then they would bank again, feel it and correct. Each time they would overcorrect and after 60 seconds they would be in a bank they could no longer "feel". At this point they were only 30 seconds away from the "Death Spiral". My Dad would ask them if they were flying level, and they would say "Yes". He'd tell them to open their eyes and they would freak out at how close they were to losing control of the plane. You cannot trust your senses in a plane without visual reference, which is why instruments are so damn important and needing to know how to read them when or figure out from the rest in a failure is key to staying alive.

[@asteverino8569]

Thank you again MACI. Great video, in all respects. Rest in Peace those on this flight. And hopefully, lessons learned.

[@Akula114]

This is a very well-done video. I think anyone would walk away with a better understanding of how much they don't know about avoiding a "Unanticipated Flight Termination." Of course, every day we drive to work in an uncontrolled mass of people who barely grasp "velocity," so we're lucky to even get to the flight line.

[@tomswift6198]

5:09 - No, you CANNOT rely on your senses to distinguish inertial space (what your inner ear thinks the plane is doing) from gravitational space (where the ground is). That's a sure formula for a crash. Neither can the gyro distinguish them; it responds to its own inertial space. Fortunately for short distances the gyro's inertial space and gravitational space are identical, so the gyro readings can tell us where the ground is. The slip-skid ball (the "turn indicator", or bank indicator, is something else, usually built into the same housing as the slip-skid indicator, the one with the little ball) CANNOT tell you if you're level. It can ONLY tell you that you are in a coordinated turn, a slip, or a skid. A weight hung from a string, the surface of a glass of water, a carpenter's level - they'll all indicate exactly what the ball shows, because they all respond to exactly the same forces. Those forces are a vector sum of inertial and gravitational forces, and the two are indistinguishable. So you can spiral all the way into the ground with your slip-skid ball showing you that everything's fine. IF your slip-skid ball tells you that you're in a coordinated turn, then your compass will tell you if you're going straight (usually - there are exceptions, not worth worrying about). If you think you're in straight & level flight, but the compass is rotating, and your slip-skid ball says you're in a coordinated turn, then you can only be banking - i.e., you know your wings AREN'T level. (A functioning heading indicator is easier to use than a compass, since weird things happen to the compass when accelerating through a magnetic field, and turning is accelerating. But the heading indicator is a gyro instrument - if your gyros are out, so is the heading indicator.)

[@57Jimmy]

So, in other words, for me…stick my head between my legs and kiss me arse goodbye!🛩💥🔥

[@mauricedavis8261]

Your videos are so informative to us layfolks, thank you Sir for your in depth work on each episode!!!🙏👍🛩

[@4braid]

I was flying this type for another airline at the time of this accident. We needed an additional aircraft and leased it from Ryanair. It was fitted with an optional third, independently powered, artificial horizon. You really need three so, if one fails, the other two should agree so you know which ones to follow. Had the accident aircraft had this mod, it would probably have been OK.

[@JasonFlorida]

Another great video! They keep getting better and better! Thank you

[@victorpalamar8769]

The "Turn Ball Indicator" is there to keep your rudder synchronized with your aileron while turning to keep the plane from skidding around the turn.

[@johnpatrick1588]

Partial panel flying was taught and practiced at all levels of training in my days. Things break.

[@romanlightman4937]

I was a CFII and a EMB110 captain with Simmons Airlines back in the early 1980s. Partial panel was never taught during EMB110 pilot training. It was too expensive and time consuming. If neither of the pilots had been CFIIs, then I can see how this could happen. Teaching partial panel skills to new instrument pilots helped to engrain the ability to fly with the attitude gyro inoperative. In my 35 year commercial flying career, I had broken ADIs 3 times including a Sperry ADI on a B727. I was thank full for every second of my CFII student training experience. Teaching new instrument pilots to fly partial panel drastically improved my instrument piloting skills.

[@StevesAmericanTrucking]

You do a great job. Please keep em coming.

[@mattwilliams3456]

MINI-ACI on the panel is a nice touch.

[@pudgeboyardee32]

never been a pilot myself but my uncle was a combat pilot and commercial pilot. when he flew commercially he always had something in his pocket that would roll if he dropped it. not guaranteed to give away orientation under significant g-force but as a last ditch its better than guessing. but hes also from the a10 test program back when the targeting system for the gau8 involved him crawling onto the control panel before launch to draw a reticle onto the windscreen with a grease pen so he had something to aim with. having a mechanical hand operated backup was mandatory for him, no matter how effective it actually was. it wasnt so much that what he was doing was going to work what mattered is that he was thinking about how to solve the problems he might encounter during pre-flight. those pilots probably did the same, this is just a reminder. find what works for you and think it through, work the problem, talk it out with ATC or combat control. and if its a combat setting and youre in a fighter you think you maybe cant save, dont stick around and guess. punch out and walk home. as a family member of a flier i'll tell you id pay any tax hike for lost planes if it meant you came home in one piece. we can make more planes, we cant replace people. stay safe up there.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

I know I'm WAY late to this rodeo... BUT you might be interested to know that back in the days when they were still casting cannons out of bronze and iron, the great gunners of the day would use a piece of chalk or gypsum (whichever was handiest) to drag as straight a line down the middle of the cannon as possible, and then there were personalized designs and markings they would use individually to help calculate and aim their guns over distances, and to imply windage "approximately". An experienced gunnery officer was a VERY studious person under horrifically stressful conditions... Your uncle is... was?... fine stock from a LONG tradition! ;o)

[@tomhughlett860]

Best to cover the horizon gyro if it malfunctions. Needle ball and airspeed will get it done in a pinch. I prefer a needle turn indicator over a turn coordinator. The directional gyro also gives rapid indication of a turn. During my instrument training I did a lot of "partial panel" practice. Being leery of depending on the artificial horizon, I developed a scan that spent less time on it than altitude, airspeed, turn and directional gyro. I'm subject to vertigo so if I can't see outside, I disregard body cues. To demonstrate how deceptive body feelings can be, while a passenger in a car, close your eyes and put your head down facing the floor. After about a minute, eyes still closed, head up quickly. After about 2 seconds, open eyes. Also, altimeter and vertical speed help avoid a "graveyard spiral". The trick is to remain calm when the airplane gives a surprise. In a panic, you can't instantly grasp what the instruments are telling you.

[@chrischinnery7515]

The turn indicator is a gyro instrument that cannot be toppled. It meaasures the rate of turn in the horizontal plane but not in pitch. It is usually combined with the slip indicator: the ball in tube.

[@johannesbols57]

On my taxi ride to LCY for a flight to AMS (Feb. 2009) on a BA146 I was staggered to see the steep downward angle of the 146s on final to LCY. It literally looked like they were hanging downward by the horizontal stabiliser. On the return from AMS I craned my head to look out the window on final. We were at the same angle I'd seen the day before. Unless I was looking out the window it felt like we were completely level in the cabin. That's how disorientating spatial disorientation can be.

[@ruthlessadmin]

I've only played flight sims, but when I find myself in an IFR situation in a VFR only aircraft, I've saved my situation several times by just pushing the stick/yoke forward and getting under the clouds....of course that only works with a high enough ceiling. It does still occasionally result in a faceplant.

[@norbert.kiszka]

Mountain little below cloud welcome to.

[@andrewfoster259]

I live in Leeds, UK and just a few months before that plane crashed I flew on that very aircraft. It was very shocking and sobering when I found out that it had crashed. R.I.P. to all that were lost.

[@timhancock6626]

This accident was only about fifteen miles from me and the weather that day was truly awful. I've always thought that it was the most dreadful luck to have this instrument failure on a poor vis day. On a day with any ground or horizon visibility it would have been a simple return to airport inconvenience. I've always felt sad for the families of all concerned.

[@ExpoAviation]

Knight Air was one airline which came up a few times in my research into other British airlines. They originally provided services shuttling air-crew from one end of the country to the other as it was a common practice at the time but had just recently lost one of its bigger airline customers over some safety concerns. Following this crash and that of another company's aircraft at Glasgow resulting in the death of several Airtours crewmembers the practice was almost completely dropped over here, with the odd exception for crossing water...

[@bdf2718]

This is where fluffy dice are essential.

[@freepalestine2434]

I was thinking the same thing: there has to be a simple way to orient oneself to gravity without high-tech equipment in case of emergency.

[@sarahalbers5555]

Also, the Hawaiian chick in the grass skirt that does the hula on your dash board.

[@LesBell]

@@freepalestine2434 Reach behind you and extract the emergency duck from its wicker basket, then throw it out the window. You can now follow it down to below the ceiling, because even ducks aren't stupid enough to fly in solid cloud.

[@freepalestine2434]

@@LesBell _"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Les. All we keep back there are drinking water and cigarettes. Look, there's no such thing as an emergency du-"_ **opens wicker basket** **quacking intensifies**

[@davidtucker3729]

a plumb bob hanging at the centre line over the panel out of the line of sight cures all misunderstood gauges. You cannot fool Mr. Gravity like he can fool us

[@Ananth8193]

Saw your video notification and I am viewing the video ❤️❤️

[@quasarsavage]

1st step of broken AH cover it with tap or a cover so as to not be tempted to use broken instruments

[@colin-nekritz]

Man, MS FS 2020 is BEAUTIFUL! I wish I could afford a machine to run it smoothly

[@dchapero6929]

Heading indicator and altimeter are primary for level flight in IMC. Artificial horizon is secondary.

[@pascalcoole2725]

This is a really well explaned investigation, nothing to add ;) And yes a stby horizon is something you should not cut costs on.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

They add confusion and can do more harm than good, especially those little battery powered ones.

[@pascalcoole2725]

@@bingosunnoon9341 Diferent opinion based on lot of instruction time.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

@@pascalcoole2725 That is probably true, I only have a couple of hundred hours of actual instrument and never saw the need for a backup horizon.

[@pascalcoole2725]

@@bingosunnoon9341 Ahhh i understand. Don't worry about that. Dark cockpits do accure rarely but if it happens what you realy want is, IAS, ALT, Attitude and some form of knowing where the hell you'r going. Hope you'l never need it.

[@rilmar2137]

I opened KZbin at the perfect time

[@vietnameseavgeeker2538]

thats perfect timing

[@ernestbywater411]

I can't remember which aircraft incident it was in, but I do remember hearing of a case where the pilots of a large commercial flight had issue with their artificial horizon on a cloudy night and the captain had one of the cabin crew bring him a half glass of water in a clear glass which was then placed on the control panel and held there. With the glass sitting on the control panel the angle of the water in the glass gave them the ability to fly level. You may want to investigate and report on that incident.

[@SuperHeatherMorris]

That will not work. The glass of water will only tell you if the aircraft is skidding or slipping in exactly the same way as the slip ball in the turn and slip indicator.

[@ernestbywater411]

@@SuperHeatherMorris Not sure where I saw it, but I have seen video of a twin engine plane flying with a half glass of water on the dash showing the water level moving with the body of the aircraft sideways and forward tilt. The video maker was talking about options to use where certain instruments failed. that was after I'd heard about a commercial aircraft incident with instrument failure.

[@SuperHeatherMorris]

@@ernestbywater411 The half glass of water/spirit level/plumb bob will not work. They will all be subject to the centrifugal force caused by the aircraft turning which it will do as soon as the wings are not level.

[@LesBell]

Partial panel technique relies on the fact that the Attitude Indicator gyro is spun by a vacuum pump, while the Turn & Bank Indicator has an electric gyro. Losing both at the same time would be unlikely. However, not many pilots are recent on partial panel technique and - this is the real kicker - it's _really_ hard to ignore the failed AI. I was taught to keep some Post-It notes in my kneeboard and as soon as I realized an instrument had failed, stick a Post-It on the face of the instrument so I wouldn't be misled by it. I'm really glad I never had to use that trick for real, though.

[@kevinrussell2718]

Leeds Bradford Airport is a very difficuly airport to fly into and out of. It is the highest in England, sitting at an altitude of 681 ft (208 m) above sea level, so pilots coming in and going out frequently experience cross-winds. Incidentally, shortly after the crash, Knight Air sold all of its services and its two newset aircraft Jetstream 31s - to Manx Air Europe, which were operated as British Airways Express. The services are now operated by Aurigny (Guernsey - seasonal); British Airways (Belfast-City - seasonal); and Eastern Airways (Southampton; Newquay - seasonal). There are now no flights to Aberdeen.

[@GentleResponseLLC]

Oh my gosh, I thought you were going to cover the Turn and Bank indicator at the 5:25 minute mark, but you ONLY talked about "the ball", which is the only the slip indicator! The turn and bank indicator will tell you if you are banking left or right and with the slip indicator will help you to make a coordinated turn, especially when in the clouds. I was wondering why the pilots just didn't rely on the turn and bank indicator to give roll data, and the vertical speed indicator to give pitch data, and when you started to mention the "turn indicator" I thought you were going to cover it! Still don't know why the pilots didn't use it, I learned to use it because some of the airplanes I fly have a slight 2-3 degree roll indication, so you can see how if I correct for that without confirming with the turn and bank indicator, I'd basically be putting myself into a gentle roll that I would not even notice if in the clouds.

[@Jet-Pack]

The turn indicator consists of two instruments. The ball is not usable to hold the horizon. If you are upside down the ball is still centered. But the needle is driven by a gyro and it can be used to keep flying somewhat straight ahead. The ball shows side forces which are zero as long as you don't have major asymmetries. The needle shows rate of turn - that's what needs to be zero to fly straight.

[@jacekatalakis8316]

Several sources I've found stated there was no requirement for a standby AH for that model, which adds to the problems. This flight isn't the only issue at LBA though, the Wikipedia page on the airport has more info on the incidents

[@HEDGE1011]

At the beginning of my career I actually flew DC-9s with only two ADIs. It’s the only time I’ve flown a transport category aircraft without a third standby horizon, and that’s a good thing as I’ve had several fail throughout my career since then. I feel sorry for the these guys; if you’ve never felt the sensations involved with being disoriented in the clouds (especially at night), you truly can’t appreciate how hard it is to fight to control the plane while your body is telling you that you’re doing it all wrong. RIP.

[@TomcatAL200]

If I were you, I'd go back and remove that part about "limited panel", the term you're looking for is "partial panel" and the procedure is quite different for loss of an AI.

[@cogitoergospud1]

Turn and bank indicator plus altimeter/vertical speed indicator= artificial horizon.

[@GratuitousSets]

Perfect answer- this should be pinned to the top

[@darrellshoub7527]

I think i have learned more raw information from your channel than any other You tube (close second being A.I. interviews by Lex Fridman, third being The Lockpicking Lawyer)..............and yet........... i do NOT yet have........ the arrogance................ to think I could land a plane............. if the pilot were .............incapacitated ............... Love your shows ! Happy 2022 !

[@SuperHeatherMorris]

What is not explained here is the behaviour of the compass. The straight magnetic compass suffers from so many errors in anything other than straight and level flight that it is almost useless in IMC. However, the instruments in this aircraft would be a directional gyro (DGI) that is slowly corrected by a magnetic system. Both the Captain's and the First Officers DGIs would be accurately showing the aircraft's heading and if that is changing then the wings are not level. This should lead to the crew being able very quickly to establish which artificial horizon is faulty. I have flown an aircraft in cloud using only the DGI, but I would agree that the faster the aircraft the more difficult this would be (low rate of turn for a given bank angle) The turn and slip indicator (completely incorrectly described in the video) will also give sufficient information to keep the wings level whilst a diagnosis of the problem is made. Flying on limited panel is hard work and doing an approach even more so, but it would certainly be possible to fly the aircraft to somewhere where the weather was better.

[@jaykay6412]

The ball doesn’t tell you the turn, the rate-of-turn indicator (above the ball) does. The ball tells you if you’re coordinated, meaning, you’re not skidding or slipping into the turn. If you lose your attitude indicator, keep the rate-of-turn “wings level” an use your airspeed, VSI, and altimeter for your pitch. It’s called “partial panel” and is taught during your instrument cert training.

[@samaguirre3283]

You said that most small single seater private aircraft have only one artificial horizon but my Cessna 107 has two one main and a independent small backup although it’s very small and sometimes hard to see especially at night (because it doesn’t have lights) it is there as emergency backup and as you’ve said we’re trained to disregard your own sensory input and use our training to overcome a instrument only landing (plane) when we don’t have any or have limited instruments and most importantly no radar (I’ve retrofitted a outboard ground proximity radar after watching how many times this could’ve saved a small private airplane like mine) . I think proper training and a properly maintained plane are essential to passengers transportation failure to do so has dire consequences for both parties speaking as a private owner and human being with love ones and friends who often fly short commuter flights on semi corporate planes .

[@EdgyShooter]

This is why I feel a backup analogue artificial horizon could be a handy backup

[@LUOLMO]

It gonna be a Air Crash Investigation episode about this crash

[@minxythemerciless]

If all else fails, take your hands and feet off all control inputs and let the designed-in aircraft stability take over. All commercial aircraft are by physical design stable.

[@jamesgraham7297]

And then crash a while after. I think you are confusing some aircraft's ability to self recover from a spin (not many), going hands and feet off in IMC (unless on autopilot) will not end well.

[@advorak8529]

A lawn dart is *very stable* by physical design and there is a reason why we do want planes less stable than lawn darts. Also: trim. And turbulences. The wings being mostly level in a 60° dive is not going to be especially helpful. Nor in a stalling climb.

[@minxythemerciless]

@@advorak8529 The tail design is such that there is always a restoring moment. So the nose goes down and the tail generates a higher downforce to compensate and pull the nose up. Most aircraft have a wing dihedral to do the same thing. A properly trimmed aircraft is very stable.

[@advorak8529]

@@minxythemerciless As you said, that depends on the aircraft being _properly trimmed._ You need the centre of drag and centre of lift slightly rearwards of the centre of mass(AKA centre of gravity, CG), or your plane will want to fly backwards --- a very bad thing. You do have a restorative force of the nose towards the plane's movement though the air, and a wing dihedral will give some restorative roll force --- but that will be along the path. It does not pull you out of a dive. However, you *need the tail to exert a downwards push* ... throw a lawn dart some day and watch that while it is all stable "nose forward" it angles more and more downwards and slams into the ground. And that amount varies. Position of the CG, weight of the plane, engine output (unless it's straight in line with the CG, which it rarely is --- also, unless finely controlled, thrust will not be exactly identical for all engines), and so on and so on. Best case: the dihedral keeps you fairly level and you get into some speed/AoA/height oscillation and not into a dive (with little banking) killing some squirrels.

[@Gruntos]

My IR examiner insisted I fly a partial approach as paper if my test. Only used it once after that when my AH failed. It’s difficult to switch out of must fly the instruments to working out what had gone wrong.

[@mrbbqcraig]

Curious question for you .... are you a pilot yourself, if not how did you become so interested in this cool topic ❓❓ Awesome videos and love your talent .... cheers to you 🤘

[@mario_plushies_plays]

My cousin died on that flight R.I.P Karl you will always be missed

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

I’m so sorry for your loss

[@yousmehratube]

Take this immediate like before me even checking out the video.

[@tommystearns1475]

Can you please do a video on the Kobe Bryant helicopter crash? I like your videos and I think it would make a nice addition to your archive

[@ryanfrisby7389]

Great video!😸

[@RonPiggott]

An emergency artificial horizon: A glass of water (compared to the glass orientation) used the same way as a construction level.

[@fluxtubes]

Search "Bob Hoover barrell roll".

[@derekrohan9619]

That’s the coordinated flight indicator to ensure you are in coordinated flight obviously. Not to tell if you are turning per say

[@paulintexas]

Starting at about 5 minutes, the explanation of partial panel and use of the turn coordinator is comically wrong. That's from a guy that's been a pilot for 34+ years (CMEI)...

[@fr89k]

I expected actually that it would be hard to disregard the artificial horizon even if the pilots know that they show false readings. It's always helpful to have duct tape around. If that's a possibility, just cover the artificial horizon with a paper and some duct tape...

[@MrsKellieReed]

I live near here and remember this happening. Just a small pronunciation point, the location is pronounced Dun - kez - ick (Dunkeswick) Moor, not ‘Dunsquick’.

[@Alex632]

Just me thinking about if I was in that pilots seat and I have to try ignore a faulty equipment, man it sounds tough.

[@philipgibbs2015]

Thats why partial panel is trained for. Redundancy is great....but on lesser specced aircraft that dont have that luxury, you better know your oats when all goes down south. In 35 years flying GA aircraft (and bigger ones)....the only vaccuum pump failures i have had in singles (two failures only) have been at night. Murphy at work again...

[@ghazisadoun7855]

Instrument rated pilots do not rely the ball of Turn indicator. That is only used to establish balanced flight. when Artificial horizon - Attitude Indicator (AI) is faulty then pilots must rely on the Turn Needle to establish wings level & NOT the Ball which usually goes opposite to the needle!

[@megsmattockx]

my dad was biking with his friends and came across the scene when he was 16

[@MORTYCJA]

great video

[@piedpiper1172]

Ah yes, a perfect use case for my (patent pending) Airplane tilt-o-meter. A champagne cork is suspended from the ceiling between the pilots’ heads. If it hits you in the fucking temple, your plane is banking. It comes free with helpful “you are upside down” text written in friendly letters on the bottom.

[@tea4223]

Actually, that's not a bad idea.

[@ryanatkinson2978]

Although I'm not a pilot, I think the two scariest things that could happen while flying would be loss of instruments in 0 visibility, and a fire on the plane

[@norbert.kiszka]

Strong windshear close to the ground and ice on wings - especially on only one wing...

[@SuperHeatherMorris]

After 20,000 hours I can tell you that instrument failure is not a major problem, but fire in the fuselage is. Statistically you have eleven minutes to get the aeroplane on the ground and evacuated.

[@Thiso76]

Hmmm. A turn coordinator won’t tell you anything really about your wings. If they were in a turn it will only tell you if you’re slipping or skidding. Not which way you’re turning. You could be turning left and the ball could go left or right. In the spiral they were in, the turn coordinator would most likely have been centred and not showing any turn as all it is showing you is where the G Force is pulling it. Love the videos though. Always great going to bed and seeing a new one.

[@louissikkema5399]

that is why you need to go to 1g flight by feel first (which is quite hard and uncertain), then it should show you wings lvel as long as you have no siedeslip

[@Thiso76]

@@louissikkema5399 it’s quite simple to fly one 1g with your bum planted directly down on the seat though and you could be in a big turn and nothing will show you that on partial panel except the compass.

[@GratuitousSets]

None of that is correct, sorry. The needle or little airplane icon (depending on type) shows that the A/C is turning left or right. It does not tell you bank angle. This gyro cannot tumble, which is why its info is used to support (verify) the attitude indicator. In the spiral, the ball might well be centered but, the needle will indicate direction. The explanation in the video was ass-backwards. I hope this doesn't offend, sorry.

[@andrewagner2035]

Limited panel requires constant practice and we normally cover the AH during this practice, so having a non working AH staring at you is very disconcerting.

[@TheaSvendsen]

Just FYI, you forgot to add the link you mentioned “should be on your screen right now”.

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Oops my bad thanks for the heads up Thea!

[@bappoo]

Do pilots carry cell phones with artificial horizon apps installed, just in case this happens? Would those apps actually help in this scenario?

[@LesNewell]

It would not help. Cell phones use acceleration sensors which would mostly agree with what the pilot feels. It would however agree with the turn indicator. Artificial horizons use gyroscopes which show the true attitude.

[@MarksKicksOnRoute66]

Not in this time of this accident. Cells were a dream then.

[@dexterroy]

Please do a video on Air India Flight 182. It was a deliberate bombing in Canada, not accident. Initially, I thought you do videos only on accidents. Then I saw, you have done covered Ukrainian International downed by Iranian SAMs. So, might as well cover this one as well.

[@jimmywrangles]

A nightmare situation.

[@momchilandonov]

I have a feeling the best thing to do would be to fly close to the ground until you are out of the clouds if the visibility allows it. Why couldn't the pilots simply rely on altitude and speed meters to know if they are level or not?

[@rakeshk761]

can you please do a video on Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302?

[@coca-colayes1958]

Nice video , although was sad

[@NiHaoMike64]

Would a compass be able to tell them that they're in a turn?

[@LesBell]

It would, but a) it's outside the usual instrument flying scan and b) in IMC it's often bouncing around.

[@davidwhite8633]

Doubtful. Lag and Lead errors are a maximum on northerly or southerly headings and they were on a northerly one when this started.

[@kozmaz87]

I may be stupid but can't you use a bottle of water at constant airspeed as an artificial horizon?

[@josephking6515]

Only if you can maintain 1G. Anything more than that and gravity acts upon the level and distorts it. Put some water in a bottle and the swing it round on a piece of string and you will see what I mean.

[@gemma3877]

How quickly did this all unfold? I'm wondering if (where possible) another solution would be to have a second plane that happens to be in the area come over to shadow you, or lead the way, so you can visually orient yourselves against their angle of pitch/yaw/roll?

[@JasonFlorida]

That's a good point if they could have followed someone in they would have visual contact with something

[@jamiecheslo]

Had they the time to "scramble" a plane this may have indeed worked. What many people do not realize, however, is that "formation" flying is not as simple as it may appear and pilots must be trained for this. I suspect that the point is moot, however, as there was simply not enough time. What a horrible way to go, no visual cues whatsoever, and their most important instrument not working!

[@SuperHeatherMorris]

@@jamiecheslo Sounds like a good way of adding mis air collision to your troubles.

[@jamiecheslo]

@@SuperHeatherMorris Agreed. Hence my caveat regarding formation flying if you have no training for it. Definitely risky! But sometimes desperate situations call for desperate measures.

[@erictaylor5462]

5:30 This is wrong. This instrument is called a turn and slip indicator, or the turn coordinator. Airplanes use bother bank and rudder to turn. When done correctly, when a turn is coordinated) forces on the plane will be straight down. You should not feel any side to side forces. The bubble/ball part of the instrument is basically a bubble level. It tells you if there are any side to side forces acting on the plane. Student pilots are taught to "step on the ball" to keep it centered. It is the needle part of the instrument that can sort of tell you you are in a bank. You were correct to say you have to equalize the G forces acting on the plane. To do that, you want the ball centered, then use the turn indicator to check your bank. This accident should not have happened with an IFR qualified pilot. It seems this flight crew were not "current" with their instrument flight skills. They failed to respond correctly to this situation. When they lost the AH they did what a typical VFR pilot does in IMC. They did not fall back on their training. They panicked and quit thinking.

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Thanks for the correction Eric!

[@erictaylor5462]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation I enjoy your videos. They are quite well done, but no one is perfect. I like your stuff more than Dan Gryder. He sometimes seems a bit full of himself. I'm sure he is quite good, but being good can lead to being over confident.

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

I think the accident plane only had a turn indicator and the plane in the sim had a turn and slip indicator so that’s probably the source of the confusion

[@erictaylor5462]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation It's shocking that an ATP qualified pilot would not have the skills to deal with an AH failure in IMC. But these guys do all kinds of things that are shocking for an ATP pilot. My dad was a CFI and he trained his pilots to deal with all sorts of emergencies and failures, including VFR into IMC.

[@Maximushunter1]

Be careful about some of the information you are telling on partial panel . You never ever trust your senses in IMC

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

It’s what the final report says. Section 1.5.3.2 “This 'g' force should invariably be reduced using the body muscle sense as a yardstick” Source: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5423045de5274a1314000bf1/2-1996_G-OEAA.pdf

[@gandalf87264]

How about keeping the rudder and the ailerons center? The aircraft should level it's self, shouldn't it? Now all you need to do is watch your altimeter? I am just an old dummy, so please educate me.

[@michaelkaliski7651]

Turn and slip indicator, compass and altimeter were all pilots had before the artificial horizon was invented. This aircraft crashed because the pilots hadn’t learned the basics of flying, or had forgotten those early limited panel lessons. More recent accidents have occurred because pilots couldn’t cope with the automation not doing what they expected. They were not prepared (or taught) to switch off the automatic systems and fly the aircraft manually. Manual flying is less efficient than letting a computer do the job, hence airlines encourage the use of automation as much as possible to reduce costs.

[@quasarsavage]

knight air... knight bus vibes check lol ;)

[@billhinton9787]

What about just a bubble and a level ?? Or a plumber bob ??

[@WaveFlightSimulations]

can you do an Australian incident

[@MaverickSeventySeven]

Would a spirit level be of use? Just asking.

[@michapeka2800]

This video made me sad.

[@RonSeymour1]

Why not keep a sealed bottle half full of water to clip to the cockpit? Premark the levels and it would be a perfect backup.

[@GratuitousSets]

This doesn't work. Take a quick look at the other comments. There's a reason fluid or spirit levels don't work on airplanes. It's the same reason your drink doesn't spill or tilt when the plane turns. It just gets a bit heavier.

[@jimmbbo]

Something doesn't square up in this story. In some 2000 hours flying a dozen or so EMB-110s, they all had dual instrument panels... The US FAA requires, and I suspect the British CAA likewise would specify that a passenger carrying multiengine airliner qualified to fly in instrument conditions have dual instrument panels which would include redundant attitude indicators... If there were two attitude indicators there should have been no reason to lose control of the airplane, so it appears there's more to this story.

[@themobseat]

In a similar situation, a pilot used a glass of water to tell if he was level.

[@Double0pi]

Hey, can you do a video on Southwest 1455?