That photo is Robert Kanigher, the creator of Poison Ivy
@Uncovered_YT8 ай бұрын
Yup, I forgot that error and should've corrected it! Thank you
@phillipstephens45228 ай бұрын
I love that song!! Poison Ivy!!
@wyldelf26858 ай бұрын
@@Uncovered_YT don't forget the oldest costumed super hero was "The Phantom" the ghost who walks , , as I recall he used Twin automatic pistols before any of them , , Phantom had developed a report with jungle animals and had a loyal wolf- dog named Devil , , , Phantom wears a purple 🟣 full bodysuit with a twin holster belt for his automatics , , he's the original costumed superhero , , Google the first issue of The Phantom and feel the better for it 😸👍👍
@TylerMcNamer8 ай бұрын
The Shadow deserves much more deserved loved!
@Deoxys9118 ай бұрын
I have to admit, it's a little depressing to realize that Batman and the Joker both basically started off as plagiarism of other popular works, but at least it's safe to say that they took on a life very much their own over the years and are at this point decidedly original characters compared to those initial incarnations.
@HeyAnnieMok8 ай бұрын
I'm a comic book writer-artist (independent and superhero variety), and Batman and the Joker are my favorite superhero and villain. But really, you seriously think that scary clown man had to be the most original idea in the world? And you're shocked that cartoonists, or really any commercial artists are thieves?
@glennross858 ай бұрын
@@HeyAnnieMokAs a "professional" in your industry, youre shocked that someone outside your industry dosent know what you know?
@HeyAnnieMok8 ай бұрын
@@glennross85 Well yes to be fair, as a professional comic book writer-artist with credits at DC Comics/Vertigo, Image, and Adventure Time Comics among many others, a little too much ego can be a common flaw among humans who make comics for money, like me. But my thought was not that one needs specialized knowledge to have a little more imagination. The commonter was clinging onto the idea that Batman and the Joker are inherently "unique" ideas at this point in his story. And I feel like it's obvious to any little child on the street that they are simply not. It's like, hey, they are in the end corporate-owned characters so you can't "be in their corner" like they're a real person. These imaginary characters should be in your corner. That's the best they can do. But that's all they can do. 🌲🌳🌴🎄
@360.Tapestry8 ай бұрын
@@HeyAnnieMok the writing sample you've provided here makes me shudder that you're considered a "professional"
@HeyAnnieMok8 ай бұрын
@@360.Tapestry Editors don't judge my work based off of KZbin comments. Happy holidays
@gl00878 ай бұрын
Knowing what Bob Kane did to take full credit for creating Batman, I'm not surprised he stole from other people too.
@DrD00M38 ай бұрын
The shadow was so popular they knew what they were doing with the tracing I'm glad some people know how plagiarized Batman is
@dragonchaserkev8 ай бұрын
The Shadow on radio is awesome entertainment, actually a lot of old radio is great listening.
@AceLM928 ай бұрын
I've heard that Bill Finger once said the very first Batman story wasn't even meant for publication, that it was basically a concept pitch given to the publisher to show them what Batman would be like, but either they or Bob Kane decided to just print it as is.
@yurifairy29698 ай бұрын
That absolutely tracks
@jadenbryant92837 ай бұрын
Yeah I could see them doing that studios tend to be pretty stupid like that
@Uncovered_YT6 ай бұрын
That's fascinating. And makes a lot of sense!
@speedracer20083 ай бұрын
Bob Kane ordered it to be printed as is, apparently
@AceLM923 ай бұрын
@@speedracer2008 go figure. May that SoB rot in his grave.
@robertb.77728 ай бұрын
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" has always been complete nonsense. Imitation is "I like this thing someone else did, so imma just use it for myself", and nothing else.
@fernandomaron878 ай бұрын
One thing doesn't exclude the other, i mean, even if they're stealing, they're still are trying to reproduce something they did like in the first place, thus admitting it's good.
@tomboughan27188 ай бұрын
There was also a pulp hero called The Bat. Green Hornet, much later, borrowed the same plot about 10 years later.
@marktheshark75888 ай бұрын
I think you mean The Black Bat.
@petergilveet66668 ай бұрын
I think you could say Batman was the Shadow for kids back then.
@rodchambers25298 ай бұрын
Good to see this one. I'd forgotten all about it but enjoyed it all over again.
@jim-bob30935 ай бұрын
Bill boasting about ripping off Black Bats finned gauntlets, then later Joker and Joker Gas from the radio show, will always prove to me he was as much of thief as Kane. Im personally suspect they might have also ripped of The Spiders cowl/cloak, as he had a well received film a year or so before. He also swing around of spider threads during a time grapple lines weren't common
@TheChadonYouTube8 ай бұрын
I’ve been waiting to hear this “however” for a very long time.
@michealhudson23258 ай бұрын
The 1990s animated series gave tribute to the shadow. As batman's childhood t.v. show hero.
@Uncovered_YT8 ай бұрын
The Gray Ghost! Awesome episode.
@IvanSGerman8 ай бұрын
Oh my, I was sure it’s 400k views, not 400 when I started watching. Very informative video with nice production, good job!
@timothymarkin44818 ай бұрын
Even Commissioner Gordon in that first story had his name cribbed from another pulp hero: James “Wildcat” (W.) Gordon.
@rangereric188 ай бұрын
Just to clarify: using a pose for reference is not the same as plagiarism. Plagiarism would have been taking the illustration and passing it off as your own.
@hurgenflerg21338 ай бұрын
Dude, that's not what the video's about. You're responding to the misleading thumbnail that isn't referenced in the video itself.
@mylesaustinleetaylor20008 ай бұрын
@@hurgenflerg2133but he is right though 🤷♂️ you’re right the video itself doesn’t say that but the thumbnail says otherwise but that’s good ol clickbait for ya
@360.Tapestry8 ай бұрын
@@mylesaustinleetaylor2000 the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. tell me i'm right, too!
@chrismyers20478 ай бұрын
You have to change your references significantly to avoid copyright infringement. If it's an obvious swipe, you could be in real trouble should the original author/artist choose to pursue it. That's not proper use of references.
@harsyakiarraathallah22228 ай бұрын
the Greatest Era of Batman, is the Original DCAU Era of Batman TAS. Kevin Created the Perfect Batman we All want and Need!
@radioflyer689118 ай бұрын
There's only five jokes and millions of variations of them.
@aaronlea95598 ай бұрын
The shadow wills!
@DanHosler2 ай бұрын
4:19 Theres a story Walter told another writer about in the late 70s Walter says he was in the studios of CBS during the broadcast, he helped Wells touch up the script right before it aired
@kiklonio8 ай бұрын
Damn is your channel underrated. Considering the quality of editing and audio quality you should have way more subscribers. I thought I just stumbled onto a random mid-sized creator in the comictube niche, but seems not.
@HeyAnnieMok8 ай бұрын
Criminally underwatched channel, especially compared to some of the pig slop that is the majority of KZbin.
@LodanSD8 ай бұрын
I am nowhere near old enough to have heard Fibber McGee & Molly or The Shadow or even the Adventures of Chickenman when they were originally airing, but I did hear them in the 90s and 00s on some of my local AM stations such as WDGY (which as of 2022 still ran Chickenman).
@zyxwvut47408 ай бұрын
There was hidden acknowledgment in the first Batman story … did you not see all those - _SHADOWS?_
@JarJarBinks4ever8 ай бұрын
The original Batman is basically The Shadow with the character's names changed, wearing the look of The Phantom. Batman did become mostly it's own thing later on but the DNA of earlier pulp and comic heroes is still there. Most of the fans don't know or refuse to accept that fact, while DC deflects by pointing to a Zorro movie that wasn't released until after Detective Comics 27.
@NewCanada3 ай бұрын
Most people also don't realize that the reason why Batman stopped using guns is because DC told Bob and Bill to stop plagiarizing The Shadow. So then the no kill rule was created for Batman. To this day people still believe the lie that it was created for moral reasons. Which isn't true at all.
@Tadicuslegion788 ай бұрын
A couple years ago, I stumbled onto the old The Shadow Radio Programs through my local library, and I gotta say they were cool in that old is new kind of way seeing the origins of classic tropes we know.
@phillipstephens45228 ай бұрын
You FORGOT to mention that the Commissioner in the movie is the Shadow's uncle!!
@macsnafu8 ай бұрын
Well, I realized that the earliest Batman stories were very pulpish, but I didn't realize just how close to the pulps they actually were! But Batman quickly changed in this early period, foregoing the use of guns, adding a sidekick in Robin, and developing other supporting characters and paraphernalia to become the character we know now.
@Johnnybon3z8 ай бұрын
I haven't seen u on KZbin in years Robin since the old days of KZbin wow I didn't know u were still active
@Uncovered_YT8 ай бұрын
Hey ho! Still here, but not as active as I used to be in my old age 😄
@ChrisLawton668 ай бұрын
9:04 all due respect, but if you're calling plagiarism for "the shape of the chimney" you may as well point out the shapes of the buildings, cars, and guns.
@Joshuadmathews8 ай бұрын
As for BK, I think it mainly points to either lazy illustrations or that he really was unoriginal in skill. The fact that so many shots mirror other illustrations and panels, which isn't really plagiarism because it is new art (similar with taking a famous painting but then putting John Wayne, James Dean, and company and putting in them in place of the other people), perhaps shows he thought there was a time crunch and wanted to get it done or he just constantly was in the habit of "borrowing" other's ideas and passing it off as his own. BF on the other hand, this one is slightly more interesting to consider, as when one looks into his character and work, he IS the main forefather of the Batman. His work mainly compiles his love for classics, pulp, and old cinema all into one character and story and reinvents what was old into new. So how much was Batman #1 his idea to borrow from Shadow versus Bob's is unknown. If Bob left entirely the story writing to BF then he clearly was intentional and knowledgeable on what he was doing. We know BK was looking at the illustrations because he copied the backgrounds. BF could have felt it was a really good story to lift or BK could have just told him that that is the story they needed to replicate. So if this was all BF's idea, borrow the story, then I think slightly this assessment needs to be further examined because his character seems to be in contrast to Kane's character. But if BK just told him what to do, then BK clearly was just wanting to nab the story and plaster his BAT-MAN on top of it. BF, on the other hand, truly was doing something artistic with the character and so if it was his idea (and he doesn't appear to "borrow" other pulp plots again- something to investigated), and he, again, doesn't seem to be the kind of person to just "steal" another's work, because to some degree the same thing would happen to him, then the motivation must have been to pay tribute, a nod that tells us that the Shadow did have a heavy influence on BF's ideas.
@DuoMaxwell8 ай бұрын
Love it when the video creator always says "...I'll put a link in the description below." and all the links below are self promotion.
@Uncovered_YT8 ай бұрын
Yeah, the original link is dead so I removed it. I'll update it with the correct one when I can find it.
@WallKenshiro8 ай бұрын
"...there is no new thing under the sun." ECCLESIASTES 1:9
@3fingerroll8 ай бұрын
great video
@BlackHatCinephile8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the info.
@Ominvus8 ай бұрын
So, Batman is the Oreo of comics. I find that neat.
@GearZNet3 күн бұрын
Great artist steal: A video essay. 😅
@serAltonTowers8 ай бұрын
@7:10 First appearance of Man.
@joelwatts68908 ай бұрын
I’m a old time radio aficionado and this is the same plot as a mystery program, although I don’t recall what show it was on. It was common for radio scripts to be reused for different shows, in a similar way to what you are describing. Maybe this practice was common and somewhat accepted
@balthazarasquith8 ай бұрын
Just found your channel man, great video with excellent editing and presentation. Looking forward to future releases
@martinkineavy90393 ай бұрын
Kane ripped a lot of people off
@cybernerdcreations44758 ай бұрын
Fantastic video
@yurifairy29698 ай бұрын
Lmao how did they get away with literally stealing the Joker in his entirety from the Shadow? That is insane.
@user-zh5lj1ec4k8 ай бұрын
As if these guys knew Batman was going to be big hit lol. They probably wrote this like anything else back then when copyrights were lenient. They prob just needed to whip something up for the comic to sell, not thinking their character would become an icon.
@vivianscircle8 ай бұрын
I am mostly a marvel fan but this was very interesting to hear! Thank you!!
@HeyAnnieMok8 ай бұрын
Oh then just WAIT 'til you hear what Stan Lee stole Man stole his whole-ass career from Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko Oh, and art! Oh, he and Marvel Comics did love to steal creators' artwork for decades, those scramps 🥲
@fernandomaron878 ай бұрын
@@HeyAnnieMoklol he's up for a threat
@BR-jw7pm8 ай бұрын
Great video! He may have had some… rocky origins, but Batman is THE greatest hero to ever exist!
@RM-yw6xe8 ай бұрын
A Batman for everyone hey? Is there one where Batman is dead and will never come back again? Then not one for everyone. ;)
8 ай бұрын
Your place is not among us.
@Jason_Bryant8 ай бұрын
I was disappointed that the comparison used in the thumbnail was not covered in the video. It looked like a much clearer example of tracing than any examples in the video. For example, the chimney comparison is really no big deal. That's a real style of chimney that was common on city buildings at the time. Even if one artist was doing it because he saw another artist do it, it would be about the same as having the same model of car in two different comics.
@HeyAnnieMok8 ай бұрын
You're missing the forest for the trees, maybe you're choosing to, I don't know you. Stealing is more about tracing. It's about stealing ideas and contexts. Which is why when they stole the plot from another writer and artist straight up, that's why it gets more damning when you get to all the smaller granular art thefts like the ones you point out.
@Jason_Bryant8 ай бұрын
@@HeyAnnieMokI'm not missing anything. The thumbnail had something very interesting in it, and he didn't talk about that. I'm not defending Bob Kane in any way. I'm just saying that the video spent time on a minor issue but didn't talk about the thing that was in the thumbnail.
@HeyAnnieMok8 ай бұрын
@@Jason_Bryant I suppose I misunderstood you then, my apologies. Happy holidays
@Jason_Bryant8 ай бұрын
@@HeyAnnieMok Happy holidays!
@zeitok88 ай бұрын
the amount of plagiarism and forgotten names in the creation af all that suerhero comic industry in america, it say something, love comics but not a fan of dresed superheros and all that monopoly, but as i see, batman reinvent in the 80s thanks to diverse authors in scripts and draw style, in that decade and burton films years later, and i love al lot of the batman short stories around these years.
@jackwalsh67588 ай бұрын
0:01 - 0:23 Have you seen "Person of Interest" from Jonathan Nolan (Christopher's brother & co-writer of the Dark Knight movies), it world-builds better than Weyland-Yutani.
@AnthonyAcriaradiocomix8 ай бұрын
Iiked him better when he was still the Shadow.
@robertleach2308 ай бұрын
Got news for you all artist do this
@HeyAnnieMok8 ай бұрын
Comic book (many varieties) writer-artist here. For context, Batman is my favorite superhero comic book character. The comments here? "Fascinating, Captain." A few here actually talk about the Shadow and the art thievery -- the narrative point of the entire episode. However, more comments than not just say "Batman's great," or worse, annoyingly attempting to amateur litigate this artistic theft which has just been proved guilty beyond any shadow (of a bat) of a doubt. ...Which leads me to question, so none of y'all ever read Ernest Hemingway? "Kill your darlings"? Because the Batman does not need defending!!! Batman is not even a real person!!!! This is what gets me about how people defend corporate characters like this. Ay.
@Arnsteel634Ай бұрын
To me that’s not plagiarism, just inspiration
@harsyakiarraathallah22228 ай бұрын
Bob Kane Created the Idea, and Bill Finger Re;Define the Batman. Plus, Credit the Joker to Jerry Robinson to give idea from the Play Card!