The Plateau of Camera Quality

[@Nate_The_Great69]

I think the camera plateau is great, in a way it shifts the focus more on being creative rather than the endless bombardment of future upgrades.

[@donperegrine922]

Good point! It stops me from saying "The picture sucks, because I don't have the latest model camera!"

[@TheKamrenB]

This is also a good time for Fujifilm to make a new character lens. (aside from fixing AF)

[@schoolpost2009]

The Plateau is also attributable to the widespread adoption of Sony Sensors among all manufactures ( Blackmagic, Panasonic, ZCAM, etc... ) Many of them are competing with exact same sensor, so the differentiation has to be made up in other areas ( Body style, User interface / User Experience, Codec, Lens mount, etc... ) Would be great to see more competition in the CMOS sensor space. Maybe even a resurgence or revival of some older CCD tech?

[@stalman]

That’s actually a good point, now the processors just need to catch up

[@LukaszFrankowski]

Absolutely. Would love any new camera with CCD - DSLR or mirrorless

[@michaelbell75]

Yep, and this is when cameras got boring too. 90% of these cameras produce the same boring looking images because Sony makes all the sensors. This is why many have gone back to film and something that looks different. At least Fuji stands out a bit.

[@nicedward7544]

@@schoolpost2009 ccd sensors are simply not up to the tasks that most people will expect nowadays. Super slow transfer to processor and the power consumption is ridiculous (like 50x more consumption than cmos)

[@andrewstorm8240]

Yet iPhone produces great pictures up to A3 so why do I need a camera?

[@Mel-95]

Really nice to see you guys chat in a relaxed format with Tyler hosting. I drifted along with you. Before I knew it, I had watched the whole show. More please.

[@EdwardsNH]

I mean... you could cut the echo down a little by at least covering the table with a soft throw blanket. Great content!

[@unbroken1010]

Pro tip 😂

[@Smart-Alex]

"Jordan nose cam" - Definitely a premium upgrade

[@timnichols3795]

Camera makers should re-evaluate the 18% gray convention, and create alternate exposure strategies that you can set your camera to. An expose to the right exposure mode would be awesome. The shutter speed dial could be set up so that you set your camera to the minimum acceptable shutter speed, and the camera only deviates from the expose to the right strategy when it needs to do so to keep the minimum acceptable shutter speed.

[@LongDeathBlueNeck]

My Fuji does that second part

[@grabedigger]

About the last segment the plateau. I've jumped from a Canon 6D to a Canon R6, this was an almost 9 year gap. It's funny how, excluding AF and Video, both cameras if exposed correctly can deliver pretty much the same results when it comes to image quality. I was about to say that the plateau was reached with the Nikon D600 and D800 and after that Canon was playing catch with Sony being the boss all around. Nowadays, there are pretty much no differences between brands and getting all these video features is awesome. I couldn't tell stories and now with the R6, the C-Log and Cinema Gamut, external recorders using ProRes 4:2:2, there are just no excuses. No new camera will bring anything new at least for quite some time. Oh yes and I own an iPhone 15 Pro and the AppleLog is ridiculous. You can also shoot LOG H265 with the iPhone.

[@PPLRRN]

No, dont lose the HDMI. They may not use external recorders, but you can still use it at home with a video capture card. And they also wont probably monitor their audio anyways. Just slap in a Video Mic NTG or something and use the zero latency monitoring headphone jack. There is a workaround for the headphone jack, but there's none for the HDMI if they remove it. Panasonic made the right choice.

[@walrusgumboot]

Best of both worlds would be another usb-c that could have a c-hdmi adapter or c-headphone adapter as the person needed imo

[@ryakkan]

Excellent work. Great show of the new MC features of iMovie. Great to see Chris and Jordan too.

[@vlcheish]

amazing to see chris and jordan meet their hero

[@agentofthewild684]

I'm still a huge panasonic fan. I switched from a canon DSLR in 2013 to an olympus mirroless and loved the new features. I switched to a gh5 in 2018 and realized the capabilities they offer a knowledgeable user. I now use the Panasonic s1 and wow. The cameras now are so incredibly capable and I love the options I have as a creator, but the software side of the game is messy. I wish there were more options on linux because I want to leave windows behind with the upcoming release of recall on windows 11, but photo editing on linux doesn't match what we have on windows. Lets hope the software side of the equation doesn't push photographers too far.

[@tennissir1986]

Sorry about the Panasonic thing. BTW - Recall is only going to CoPilot+ laptops.

[@unbroken1010]

What would push photographers too far? They already mostly nutters

[@matthewTobrien]

Live Multicam is such an incredible feature and while it may not satisfy the "auto-captions NOW!!!" crowd, it's going to be tremendously valuable to podcast producers in particular. The fact that there is no latency in the wireless image is just a testament to Apple's commitment to making the customer experience feel like magic. Great coverage, Tyler (and the fellas from PetaPixel, of course).

[@unbroken1010]

You can thank the 10 year olds that build it

[@willhorne35]

video quality is kinda choppy?

[@stalman]

Yeah I notice it wasn’t perfect, I’ll try to track down the cause

[@Edwin--]

@@stalman @ThatJordanDrake 😉😊

[@waveland]

Regarding the S9: I finally had a chance to handle one for a few minutes yesterday (June 24) and two negatives jumped out at me right away. One, the control dial feels like it came out of the dollar store parts bin. I’m sure it’s been tested for durability, but it doesn’t feel like it belongs on a $1500 camera. And two, the HDMI and USB-C ports are on the grip side of the camera! I don’t think I’ve heard anyone really talk about this, but if you do want to put the S9 on a little gimbal then start digging for some L adapters to reroute the cables, and if you want to connect this camera to any sort of monitor the cable is always in the way when adjusting settings. Now that’s a really weird design decision.

[@imacg5]

around 5:00 there are many freezes, are those hardware (phones) issues or software issues?

[@stalman]

Im still not sure what happened there, trying to figure it out

[@benjaminzipser6021]

Ok. not to trash anyone. But honestly, why does it look so grainy? Like I've seen other iphone footage and it usually looks way sharper and way less grainy than this footage? Does this have to do something with the ipad Software? I'm genuinely curious.

[@stalman]

I think a lot the problem is they were using the 3x lenses. The sensors are smaller, lenses are softer and it just doesn’t hold up like the 1x

[@benjaminzipser6021]

I see. So you DO lose a lot of quality when you zoom in with your phone.

[@MaximoJoshua]

did you guys use Apple Log for this, out of curiosity? It's a tad annoying using the FC Camera, because you can only use Apple Log with ProRes 422 HQ, so its creates really huge file sizes, so I would understand why you might not do it (or if you had older phones).

[@koobs4549]

@@benjaminzipser6021iPhone has 3 lenses with their own sensors. The sensors are not equal, and the main camera has the largest one. The 3x lens uses the smaller, less capable sensor, so it’s not an issue of image quality degradation from zooming in on the file. It’s an optical zoom, just a smaller, less capable sensor.

[@this_time_imperfect]

It’s weird that the footage is so stuttery since the iPhones record the video locally first. So many skipped frames, is that a normal iPhone issue?

[@gfrmartins]

What is the reason (besides pushing Final Cut for Ipad) that all of this could not work with a Macbook, Air, etc? and only in ipad pro?

[@stalman]

I hope they make it work for Mac asap, that would actually be more useful for me

[@dewdop]

Money

[@LukeChristo]

The other thing that would be nice is to have better wireless. Have you big camera upload to a cloud, or talk with your phone better and faster.

[@tennissir1986]

What about my Kodak Brownie ?

[@toadlguy]

Not sure you know - the audio is just a tiny bit out of sync. At least in the first segment. Maybe it is YT.

[@stalman]

There was a tiny bit of drift from the external audio recording to GH7 (29 vs 30 fps). I tried to get it all close but you’re right that it’s not perfect

[@Leclicq]

I use Sony A1 professionally and If I would have to do the rest of my career with these that is perfectly fine by me. (might have to buy a new one at some point) but its all I’ll ever need.

[@Jellyman]

I don't hate the setup, I love the versatility, the overall quality you get, and the fact I didn't even realize they were shot on iPhone at first. What I don't love, is the frequent stuttering that seems to be associated with the system. I really hope it improves, this seems so user friendly that if it takes off it would be one of the better cost effective multicam solutions. With that being said, in its current state, I'd never use this over some cheap 1080p dslrs, or even some apsc 4k dslrs. An iPhone is not cheap, at all. Sure you can set this up with some iPhone Xs or maybe a 12 pro that cost somewhere in the ballpark of 200$-300$ as those afformentioned dslrs, but I'd reason you're using something like a 13 pro or better to get the results you do. Even the 4k on an iPhone x doesn't touch some of the modern iPhone sensors, so at that point you're right back to the range of 400-600$ for a modern iPhone camera with a half decent sensor. And then what do you do with them? They're just overpriced cameras now with cellular capability you don't use. Do we make these employee phones or do they just sit on a tripod? The use case just doesn't seem well thought out considering the camera you replaced the DSLR with is more or less the same cost with nowhere near the same versatility. (Log if you don't go for a pro, fine tuning frame rates being non existent, 8 bit color range on anything older than an 11, the list goes on) Do we ask our employees to donate their personal iPhone to the cause? That seems odd, but I suppose a small studio trying to save a buck could go that route. But beyond this use case of an up and coming podcast using personal devices to save a buck in the early days, it makes absolutely zero sense to use iPhone cameras in place of a DSLR. Especially when I could just set up each iPhone on a tripod, hit record, and eliminate all of that visual stutter. Solve the stutter and you might get away with it as a full production ready solution. But in it's current state it's like one cam is a different frame rate than the others (camera operator cam is genuinely unwatchable) and the rest seems like it's being recorded from the other room with how frequently frames drop in the multicam recording. Hopefully this doesn't come across as overly critical, I really like the idea and hope it improves. It just doesn't hold a candle to a couple cheap 1080p dslrs with a couple ninja Vs and an atom X. Does it cost marginally more? Yeah you'll probably drop a couple hundred more on ninja Vs or an equivalent recorder to bypass 30 minute record times, but that's a small price to pay for prores HQ, cheaper storage w/ SSDs (especially anything larger than 256gb SD cards), and more versatility in my recording format. Plus, a production company isn't going to purchase iPhones for their multicam setup. So your target demo is exclusively up and coming KZbinrs, who would likely benefit more from the cheap DSLR functionality than an iPhone that devalues by another 100-200$ every year. iPhone multicam just isn't a good investment. If the system improves, perhaps this could truly take off. But until a half decent 4k iPhone camera (iPhone 12 pro or better) is under 250$ and I can't find an equivalent DSLR (that will actually retain some value) for around the same cost for the same specs, this multicam setup leaves a lot to be desired.

[@JLJ2]

Great information. I’m excited about all of this! Also, what brand tabletop mic stands are you using?

[@nowwithvitaminr]

I didn't realize this was an apple podcast! good god. My man spent the first 25 minutes doing nothing but glazing Apple.

[@stalman]

Welcome to the channel!

[@detachedmind]

Great discussion. Am I seeing dropped frames in the video, especially on Chris, or is it just me?

[@jangarcia1338]

The smaller m43 sensor is an advantage in many ways as well. And many of the downsides will soon be anecdotal with the advancement in Ai

[@arthurgphotography]

Om systems has more computational functions in their cameras than our phones, they deserve a lot more hype for that. Despite owning three full frame sony's, I still reach for my om-1 in certain situations.

[@jamesbooker6284]

Didn’t know I needed this today. Turns out I did.

[@makatron]

Sony had full sensor readout in the F55 back in 2012 AFAIK, took them over a decade to bring it down to their photography cameras.

[@SneakyCaleb]

I have many cameras from the Ricoh griiiX HDF to the x100V to the Sony a7iv. I have two Sony a6100s because they are the best small cheap travel camera I can depend on. If someone steals it I won’t cry myself to sleep. It’s autofocus I can depend on and the color science is so much better than the original a6000. For $500 you can find them used all day long. 99% of people don’t need anything more.

[@Mocha_122]

Tried the Lumix S9 in store a few days ago and was kinda interested in it. I do like the silver version but I couldn't really justify buying it when I'm already invested in Nikon

[@stalman]

Nikon looks very promising right now, no need to switch brands

[@paulhancock]

I don't really shoot video so I can't comment on a plateau in video features, but as a stills photographer, I don't think anyone can argue that pure image quality for stills photography hit a hard plateau around 2017 with the D850, A7/A7RIII, X-T3. If I did a lot of video or serious sports and wildlife I would absolutely upgrade because the new stacked sensors, advanced AF etc are all very impressive. However, for a shooter like me, who exclusively shoots carefully composed stills... There is literally no benefit to buying a latest flagship body. I went from a Sony A7R III, to an A7R V... And swiftly back to an A7R III(A). I just didn't need the more advanced features and IQ (including DR) was identical... So I spent the money on modern glass, which is where your money will directly translate into big improvements in your IQ. Just lastly... I'm with Chris regarding Lumix M43, they need to focus on small bodies and relaunch the GX line. I had a Lumix GX1 back in 2011 and it was sensational. A cool looking tiny body (half the size of an X100VI) with 24MP, 'enthusiast' video features, interchangeable lenses or maybe a 28mm equivalent fixed lens would sell like hot cakes... And they can do it. For day trips, walking/climbing, street photography, parties, social events etc it would be perfect.

[@dim.a91]

What I'd like to see is lower base ISO e.g. 64 instead of 100 like on some Nikon models, or even 50, 25, 12...

[@normanridgwayofficial]

I’m watching on a big screen tv and the Final Cut switching looks unnatural. I don’t know if it’s the fps being magnified or something else. Also glitching is magnified. I’m sure it will improve over time but, for engagement, I thought I’d comment. Maybe it’s the shutter speed?

[@tennissir1986]

I disagree about camera “plateau”. Although it may be true that image sensors by themselves may have peaked (excluding faster readouts removing rolling shutter) - the autofocus upgrades means that 90 percent of photographers will get better stills and videos.

[@stephangauthier911]

That "plateau" means AF performance, too.

[@alexcorll90]

A plateau is inevitable. The market is somewhat niche these days for the high end cameras. And lithography processes for chips can only get down to around 2nm currently. If the current sensors and camera chips are fabbed on say a 10nm process, we only have 2-3 more upgrade cycles before we'll be close to the limit for what we can achieve in terms of noise improvements and processing speed in a camera. There will still be updates, but improvements are going to be much more incremental in the next few years.

[@ryanleethomas]

30:25, Dumb idea or potentially great idea for the successor to the S9, but imagine a pull up dial on the top that switches between LUTs by default, ideally on the left side, so it is a callback to vintage film rewind knobs. You’re then skeuomorphically swapping film out. It needs to be a rangefinder style camera, potentially like the Fuji GFX 50R, or ideally like the X-Pro 3. Having a viewfinder on the corner, as well as the articulating screen is the missing piece, and l think LUMIX is missing that classic/retro factor for this line. They need a more stylish counterpart to their video series cameras and colorways aren’t enough.

[@Rashadmcka]

If November/December comes and there is no s2h (or camera under 4k) im going to switch brands... sucks because i was JUST getting all the lenses i want lol

[@generalcontrol]

Wake me up when global shutter sensors will be mass produced. Add that to any modern camera to make it perfect. Any other IQ parameter has been long maxed out.

[@stephangauthier911]

Until sensors capture the full spectrum, IQ wont be maxed out.

[@o0YumRamen0o]

Video's a bit stuttery for the Chris cam

[@coin777]

Very glichy video

[@iMaxPatten]

The disparity in quality between iPhone ultrawide and the 1X lens is HUGE

[@vidthreenorth4007]

By the end of the clip I looked for the skin tones and I was seeing them orange, but up till that point I just didn't care. I was listening to three guys talking about technical stuff. . . .

[@taylor1038]

Anybody else notice a bit of stutter with the iPhone multicam?

[@dizietz]

Heya! there were some dropped frames right around kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqaslZ6jr8ZokNE -- any idea why this happened?

[@michaelbell75]

M43, APS-C and FF plateaued 5-6 years ago. We need more manufacturers like Fuji who are pushing MF and bringing that to the masses. Enough with tiny sensor cameras, let’s get to the good stuff.

[@coin777]

I think every manufacture has manual focus not online fuji

[@zanakil]

@@coin777MF is for Medium Format (or maybe you were joking idk)

[@frankyan_]

And you still misspelled Chris’s last name in the description 💀

[@stalman]

I blame the AI autocorrect

[@rowanstrang8072]

Who’s gonna be the first to release a proper square sensor camera

[@cinematools9621]

On the video side, I think all modern mirrorless cameras are great if you're working with SDR content. Things will change once HDR becomes a standard.

[@stalman]

At this point I’m not even certain we’re on track for HDR to become standard outside of Hollywood, it still mostly looks terrible

[@cinematools9621]

@@stalman what are you referring to? Even the most basic HDR 10 looks amazing on a good display. The problem is that there isn't one standard. A Dolby Vision license costs money and is not available on Samsung TVs. Google created its own HDR for Pixels. HLG exists, kind of. This makes things more complicated.

[@MaximoJoshua]

I mean...HDR has been a standard for like 8 years or longer. KZbin supports it, the last 5 years of iPhones support it (display and capture). I think people don't understand that this is a technical standard, it doesn't mean "bright saturated colors"). I personally think that HDR uploads for KZbin have a much higher ceiling in quality, not only because you can capture and display more dynamic range, but because you get 10 bit video, and better compression algorithms. I honestly can't remember the last SDR movie I have seen, you typically don't even get a choice, and whether I watch on iPhone, iPad, Macbook Pro, or OLED TV, it always defaults to HDR.

[@cinematools9621]

@@MaximoJoshua true but I'm talking about content creator level. The discussion is about consumer cameras.

[@MaximoJoshua]

@@cinematools9621 yeah, that was also my point, I can upload every KZbin video using Rec2100 HLG. Most tv's, smart phones, tablets, and laptops will be able to display it. If you are aiming at a north american youtube audience, I estimate 80% of them would see the HDR version by default. If they didn't have an HDR device, KZbin automatically creates a SDR version for every HDR upload. So, if I were a content creator, I would record in Apple Log with my iPhone, use Davinci Resolve to transform it to HLG, upload to KZbin. Basically, every content creator could switch to HDR tomorrow if they wanted to, it's not difficult, pretty much any current camera can handle it. The thing you have to realize is that just because I can include more dynamic range doesn't mean i have to, just because I can include a wider gamut of colors, doesn't mean I have to. Rec2100 is a standard that defines boundaries, not the contents inside those boundaries.

[@williamsolis1]

I think the focus on IQ is getting stale. Video quality and options, customisation, IBIS, readout speed are becoming more important. The ceiling in IQ is basically DR/ISO which hasn't really moved in like a decade.

[@dhyanverco]

14bit readout modes for video and 16bit for photo. That's the next small step for image quality. Might be another decade at the rate camera companies are going though.

[@stalman]

It will be nice for sure, but I’m curious if we’ll really notice the difference. 12 to 14 bit raw is already subtle

[@dhyanverco]

@@stalman I've read that bit depth limits dynamic range, so we could finally see improvements in dynamic range. And it makes a difference with the xh2s 14bit readout with video. That's why it has such good dynamic range.

[@jaymills1720]

Sounds great! iPhone isn’t ready for podcasting ! Curious if you guys knew what the s9 was before flying across the world? If you knew it wasn’t for you then why review - I’d rather watch a review from someone who will be using it. If you’re not using it then I don’t care about your input. Goes for any product or service.

[@MyLifeFrAiurGaming]

Its their job to review gear lmao😂

[@jaymills1720]

@@MyLifeFrAiurGaming they review iPads? Apple Watches? Reds? Arris?

[@shmuelaryehkoltov241]

At some point, soon hopefully, photography and videography will again be about creating great stories and not about having the newest and bestest gear.

[@chrisw443]

If you think low light on m43 is an issue with a gh5s and a speedbooster, your just lying to yourself lol

[@GrayGhostDog1]

... it's not that big of an issue without a speed-booster.

[@jim7953]

iPhone or android phone are ok but prices are too much way too much.

[@GlassfilmWeddings]

I still cant believe that there’s no LUTS for Final Cut iPad tho. Like thats whackkkkk

[@UrbanAnimeLounge]

Video camera are nowhere near plateau tbh. The real game is 8K at Pristine quality, with up to 120 frames, no compromises, log and raw at minimum 12 bit. That is where we should be. The A7S3 still beating cams coming out today tells me it was the 1080ti of that time and we just getting piece meal, and cripple hamm es. Now we gonna spend 2-3 years getting pushed 6K as the bees knees.

[@derJackistweg]

25:20 vs. 27:13 pretty much wrong! When you place a product (=12-18 BEFORE launch) you make out aTARGET group. THAT group has a budget. If you do not hit a specific price point a product DOES NOT SELL AT ALL! This is really serious. The price point ist the MOST relevant point - otherwise a product will not sell. And I do not mean x% less, I mean not at all! As a non sales pro you can see this on smartphone sales quite well. Samsung (at least in Europe) does this excellent. The drop down, ver controlled! the price of the last year high end slightly, so that they can sell the new, as well as the last one en mass, so that competition has no chance. YT Photographie is such a bubble. Tony is pretty much the only (en) Person who knows this industry.

[@stephangauthier911]

Better processing power, yet my 3k$ r6 cant stitch a panorama in body. We would get real advacements if companies stopped crushing their products with cripple hammers.

[@nevvanclarke9225]

Yes ...if you look at images from a Nikon d850 compared to a Z9. There isn't a huge difference...gfx 50r 2019 images to a 2024 gfx 100s ii..minimal gains. There are more Ai features in camera. Adobe ptffff ....I'd be more worried about people making guns from 3d printers. Ai features in a camera,...subject detection is AI...eye detection is AI...time lapse and stitching pannos is AI....

[@ToothlessSnakeable]

Cameras haven’t seen any improvement since 2017

[@joestrahl6980]

The title of the video and the content is inconrgruent. You have to watch until at least 20 min to begin to hear the title topic and avtually it is really at first 40ish minutes when the video comes close to talking about plataeus. Buti if yyouo are really into apple product geare and podcasts then watch the start or skip to at least 20: 00 if you wnt to hear something approaching the title............

[@stalman]

What would be a more accurate and seo friendly title for this podcast episode?

[@joestrahl6980]

We yalk abut a lot of stuff with noe clrar focus first iw to tun s pod cat with new aplee ncool gsgets thenw talk about ..and toeards the ebd we toich upon the ipbdervation tge cameras are plateauing nd for pphy new annera releases are just incremebtslmental imporivements.. Byt giveing rhevtitle after the last thig alledkt about id very msleading. How about breaking it up nto chapters so the virwer has the option to dskiptoexactly whst she/he wanto watch? Or how about stsrting out by saying qe hsvw alot yotalk abour today we are stsrting pit y demonstrating x sbd then ralkng sbout y and then at the end z .sometines a thumbnsil abd title foes not match the cont" and domerimes tjus gets lsbelled xlockvaitt. Trgsrdles it comerms criss as a bit disengenious..having a titkewhich onlymatches the coyent of the lt fewmonutes. Sure some peoole might ve eilling to oisteb to sll kknfs of phoyograohy for 35.minutes. oters wamt a quickjcoobtratedd purpoesfull topic. You askedwhst thethe titke shoukd ve been...that is your job yo get right ans if you have difficukty sunce the video say rrables thsb sayi sowrhing in thw bwginning to oriebt the viewer. Put in timestamps!

[@redcomn]

A micro 4 third Sony RX will be pretty sweet too

[@z352kdaf8324]

Why would Sony hurt themselves doing that?

[@redcomn]

@@z352kdaf8324 since it had been a while since the last release of rx series. Tbh zv series ain’t really do it for lot of us rx user

[@BogdanTheGeek]

Im sorry, but this is the worst filmed podcast I've ever watched. How can "camera" people be so bad at what every youtuber with a podcast figured out. The image looks so washed out and dull, yet over saturated skin colour.

[@yedijafotografer]

Camera manufacture need to approach woman as nowadays, more and more woman enterpreneur is entering the market. They producing their own content and most of their content still comes from an iphone.. why not make professional camera that is "woman friendly".. just put additional trivial stuff like beautify even matter

[@stalman]

My wife says this all the time, and it’s true

[@kentmemories]

I think Chris and Jordan S9's review was their worst reviews ever, mostly complaining and reviewing for something S9 isn't. I blaimed Lumix for picking the wrong reviewers for the product.

[@slwstry]

„Picking wrong reviewers” I think you are mistaking marketing and adverts made for company producing stuff from reviews which are made for consumers.

[@jonesphotography5257]

I think you have a huge point with plateauing in the camera world. We are at a point right now that I could pick up a Sony, Canon or Nikon and get the exact same images and not a single human being could tell the difference or care. For example, I was watching a KZbin review of the Nikon Z8 and they said "Here is a sample of the beautiful pictures I was able to capture with the Z8" and they were just of cars at a car show or something. The pictures were nice, but there was absolutely nothing about the images that couldn't have been captured with any other camera and didn't exactly inspire me to go out and buy a Z8. I could have taken my R6 Mark II and gotten the same exact images. What has happened is that people are taking their brands waaaay too seriously now, like they are on sports teams. At the end of the day, no one gives a flying crap if you have a Z6III, an R5 Mark II or an A1. They are all extremly capable, it's just a matter of what ecosystem you want to be in. Everything else is just flexing.

[@Edwin--]

While I agree with you, I think there is still a marginal step that can be made. I also shoot Fuji GFX100s next to fullframe, and the 16 bit colour out of that sensor is still a step above my Sony A7iv. Not necessarily in the way the imagines look, but the latitude for editing, lifting shadows and tweaking individual colours without the imagine falling apart is certainly at a higher level. I think this will be in the similar in the next generation of full-frame sensors. Whether you really need it? For most it will be a 'nice to have', and some will only use their out of camera Jpegs without ever touching the raw-files.

[@camcamwatt]

Then Arri enters the chat 😊

[@Edwin--]

@@camcamwatt Hahaha, yes. How cool would it be if that level of tech would become available for around USD 6,000? And also ARRI isn't there yet. The dynamic range of the human eye is 20 stops, so we should only be fully satisfied with sensors with 20+ stops of dynamic range, shooting full raw with a global shutter, at 8K250p. Only then we have sort of reached the limit of what is perceivable and useful. In audio this limit of what is perceivable has been long been reached. In photo resolution too, but not in dynamic range, though the sensors have not progressed much on that point in the last 5 years. We have mainly seen increases in processing power.

[@Noojtxeeg]

Love how @jonesphotography5257 brings up a very valid point about modern cameras and diminishing returns and people respond by obsessing over the latest and greatest 😂

[@williamsolis1]

yup, its more about the other aspects like video, lenses and stabilisation.

[@StoicJason]

Everyone: All cameras are the same! Fuji Autofocus: 🤪

[@testxxxx123]

Fuji: bet

[@pedropereira5043]

Fuji likes to be the weird kid. I switched to Panasonic because of the AF, my XT3 was so bad!

[@joeharrisonnz]

works fine if you don't use tracking

[@IFrancyISantosI]

worry no more.. FW update is going to be released! .. .. AF will be even worse

[@StoicJason]

@@IFrancyISantosI 😂

[@JoeyHoogendoorn]

For me (not a pro) most cameras are still just lacking in how it's integrated with a phone app, quick sharing of videos and photos, how simple it should be to update firmware etc. Even though most of the time I'll edit later on my laptop, I can imagine there are many consumers who don't necessarily want to or just want to be able to do quick stuff on their phone. Agree that something like built-in ND filters on more cameras would be amazing if the body size can stay the same. This can make a big difference in how much video I shoot when travelling, especially if I'm doing photos at the same time.

[@mrchristian87]

Isn’t quick camera to phone sharing what the s9 was about?

[@henlo6752]

I don't have any issues with my A7 IV - seamless connection and sharing images to my phone instantly

[@JoeyHoogendoorn]

@@henlo6752 I have not used it but if that's the case then that's great to hear. I hope all cameras can get to a point where you don't have to think about it at all.

[@VynZography]

Thanks for recording this video using your iPhones. It's convinced me to not sell my proper cameras just yet.

[@jim7953]

You should of talk about the license that a lot of photographers bought their software before subscriptions came out and they took that away and did,t even consider to give you the money back. I see no one talking about that. How can adobe sell that license that we bought and just go on your computer then you can’t use it anyone more. That was not legal!

[@stalman]

Did they take away your license or did they stop providing free updates?

[@Toglander]

The biggest two features missing from cameras are a smartphone like interface, and internal storage. Every camera should work like your smartphone and have at least 1TB of storage.

[@camcamwatt]

I own a C300 Mkiii - and a GH5 “s”. The GH5s still holds up epic , with the right exposure and a splash of grading its stunning footage. LUMIX have always pushed the limits on Video specification and they have done it again. I feel the GH7 is the perfect epic VLOG camera for 2024 as well as you can run some smaller glass and get all those features. It’s not the camera that matters it’s the person using it. 😊

[@roofedmyball]

Gh5s user here. I agree. I paired it with some “pro” lenses and the image is still phenomenal.

[@unbroken1010]

Please don't vlog your life at P Diddy after parties. Much appreciated

[@michaelbell75]

Apple and Google have been the only ones innovating in photography for years now. Once these phones start getting 1 inch sensors or Apple and Google figure out how to achieve performance of a larger sensor in a smaller one, as they have figured out out how to get big optical zoom in a tiny lens, it will be game over.

[@jangarcia1338]

For non photography enthusiasts it already is game over. For enthusiasts it has nothing to do.

[@The_Idea_of_Dream_Vision]

Canon r10 or r50 are cheap csmeras but the image quality is jus amazing especially if u have good lenses. There is not much that they could improve on nost cameras interms of quality wise.

[@benjhaisch]

ummm I need that Ektar mug tho

[@stalman]

It was in a small photo lab in Vegas. They were sold out of portra though

[@thatjordandrake]

I said the same thing while we were there.

[@iMaxPatten]

Live Multicam is very, very cool! I can definitely tell this is iPhone footage but it’s not bad.

[@paulbglaubly]

the mirror creating a canted illusion in the medium-close angle on Chris feels like something out of a Max Ophüls film; makes him seem villainous or untrustworthy like he's hiding something

[@stalman]

I’m glad to spotted that storytelling technique, stay tuned to find out his dark secret

[@ErisedMediaCo]

I'm not a huge fan of the Apple Vision Pro strapped to your face as a general workflow for creatives or even industry... but it definitely has a place. In terms of creating content for it, I could definitely see using some of the innovations James Cameron had used with Avatar II. Separate the sensor and lens mount from the main body of the camera, throw the camera body on a back-pack style strap system, and have the sensor(s) and lens(es) mounted to your head or torso in some way.... helmet cam maybe? That could make for some AMAZING POV perspective film making. And you could have the systems mounted in other ways too if it made sense for the story. But right away, that seems the most logical approach to me. Sort of what the Vision Pro TRIES to do but with extremely high fidelity.

[@igorvuk4454]

full frame 12megapix, 10bit 4:2:2, 4K 60fps uncropped 120 cropped, dual SD, good IBIS, internal ND and under 2000$ used what' I'm asking for is a7siii with internal ND for 2/3 of a price lol

[@steveosaur]

Couldn't help myself noticing the marble table when you mentioned the echo 😂

[@TheKimNeeper]

Don't take this personally guys, but Apple's keynotes looks better on my 5K 27" screen - so perhaps it's not only the iPhone's quality alone that does it ;-) I don't know what Apple do, but probably using 10,000,000 nits lights so the iPhones runs at ISO 1 or something lol.

[@stalman]

Well the biggest thing (aside from crew, location and lights) is that they are shooting ProRes log and only using the 1x sensor. We had the closeups on the 3x lenses, which is worse, and shooting tot start iPhone profile.

[@albionmerrick]

i actually think a huge fumble on the s9 is the cold shoe. street photographers often use flash. it also would have made it a more capable backup camera for professionals.

[@stalman]

Yup I totally agree, but then they would have also needed a mechanical shutter

[@errol3184]

Funny how there was suddenly a lot of innovation around the pandemic. Makes me think they could give use all a lot more. 8.9K duel gain quadbayer bsi stacked sensor with triple gain iso standard for any flagship. RAW video codecs as standard as photo has been. Make that level normal, then get fancy with larger sensors and lenses. That will create a market for curved tech, like what they test and do for smaller systems. Eventually, they could give us an IMAX look with a much smaller sensor. Legit look...no speedbooster.

[@RubberKid100]

Camera quality peaked in the 1980s and went down over the nineties and nillies. By now it's starting to catch back up to what was (and still is) possible with film.

[@future62]

At higher ISOs we are literally hitting the physical limits of what sensors can capture (see Bill Claff's DR charts). So yea sensor IQ is def no longer an issue. I wish lens makers would rely less on software correction though (looking at you Canon)

[@Brad-gk4jb]

What I find amusing is that we have cameras that shoot up to 8k with image sharpness that exceeds reality and then we go and and stick a filter on the lens to soften the image:D Ultra sharp images are not pleasing to the eye over a long period of time. Initially its exciting to see something in such detail but it quickly becomes tmi. Images that have the most impact are all about the subject matter and how well the photographer is able to frame the information in order to serve the story.

[@FabienMathey]

The S9 would have been an amazing camera with a mechanical shutter and weather sealing. Other than that it is an amazing camera for its size!

[@dylon2932]

Holy frame drop Batman. Solid content and discussion though!

[@joshuaherring1711]

"I think Adobe will do a better job" such a hopeful romantic lol

[@kaczynski2333]

I still can't think of a good reason to upgrade from the D700

[@LFPAnimations]

I think cameras need to get the sensors that phones have. For instance AR abilitys on board professional cameras would make camera tracking seamless like it is with an iphone.

[@rrteppo]

It's not the sensor it's the chipset. Phones have $1000 CPU+GPU's that do a number of Photoshop tricks to make photos look nicer. They will add contrast, take a short video and pick the sharpest image, photo stack, ect. Your camera on the other hand takes a RAW photo that then hands you exactly what it saw, and then you have free reign to do whatever you feel like.

[@jordanjoestar8839]

I just sit back with my $100 1970s OM1, $250 A6000 and my super "expensive" $600 XT3. I could care so little about new gear chasing its unreal. The only new features aside from better range in sensors, is features that make up for bad photographers. A professional with a 35mm film camera will walk circles around some rich dork with a $9000 Leica he got while shopping for espresso machines, because KZbin influincers said it was the best. The results are in the operator, just as much as the gear.

[@stalman]

I love film too, but I can’t afford to shoot it full time. At least $40 a roll after development and scanning, I’m already spending $500 year on it as a hobby but if I shot enough for my shops that would be closer to $5,000 a year.

[@nickthaskater]

There is no reason for this multicam setup to be restricted to the iPad vs. Macbook. This is just Apple trying to keep iPad relevant now that more people than ever are getting wise to "why can't I just install mac OS on my iPad if I want to?"

[@stalman]

Or, since they are completely different code bases, they haven't got around to multicam for the Mac yet. I don't know if they will, they should, but the FCP team is way smaller than you think and this feature was JUST released.

[@nickthaskater]

​@@stalman just underscores my point that Apple is flailing. They have no cohesive direction at this point and it feels like they're throwing spaghetti at walls.

[@GrantSR]

You are concerned about having an echoey studio, and yet you use a marble freaking tabletop? A plain piece of plywood would be better!

[@stalman]

Jordan was using my usual wooden table so we moved the marble kitchen table in

[@GrantSR]

@@stalman Then tell Jordan he doesn't get to make cracks about you having an echo probe studio! 😝

[@vanzetti7]

What about 12bit - is that something possible that will be the norm?

[@aaronporterjr.9515]

For photography purposes mainly, my buddies and I have these conversations all the time. It’s been a long time since something came out that was something that excited me for photos. All of these brands make excellent cameras, and they make a lot of them as well. So you have options to choose from, from the last 5-7 years or so. The part of the conversation that’s interesting for me, is what are people experiencing now. If the brands didn’t make another camera I think we would be OK for what they all produce. But because of the way the camera world has moved to where something new comes out every few months, would people be satisfied with that? I’ve always looked at the camera world as a world that didn’t need something new every six months because of how they built the cameras before. I didn’t need to drop something as often because what I built before will last 5 to 7 years. Not saying that things don’t nowadays, but we do see companies release multiple products at a time all the time. I wonder if that produces the plateau that were seeing. And I wonder if people really get a chance to love the cameras that they have before they go try buy the new one

[@normanridgwayofficial]

For the s9. If they would have simplified the menu and not the hardware that would have been better. I have the s5iix and just got the Blackmagic 6k and love the simplicity of the Blackmagic menu and setup.

[@ryanhamstra49]

I don’t know if I could recommend somebody switch from a canon R series or a Sony A7 series to a GH7 if they already have all of the lenses, although you could just get a Matabones adapter for it, especially if you got it as a second camera, but as someone who is already in the micro 4/3 ecosystem, the Gh7 gives me absolutely no reason to sell all of my equipment and change to one of those other ones, at least as a videographer.