The Player Movement Set Up | Rugby League Roundtable | Season 2 EP #2

[@JohnBibidy]

Jimmy and Tony Mestrov speak about Penrith like they shouldn’t be REWARDED for developing all of their talent the last 5+ years. They have not bought an Origin player in the last 6 years, but they have DEVELOPED 11 of their players to play in SOO. They have already lost Api, Kikau, Burton, Crichton, Leniu, Hopgood and now Luai and Fisher-Harris (among several others). All are now star signings at other clubs. That group of Players would make a Top 8-side themselves! The salary cap is demonstrably doing its job. Penrith have a fantastic and enviable system. So did the dynasty organisations of the New England Patriots and Golden State Warriors; so do now the Kansas City Chiefs and Wigan Warriors. The system is not broken. Sustained success is the name of the game for Administrators/Coaches/Players. Can’t we just celebrate it when it happens?

[@thygfr]

Did you feel the same when the Broncos lost Fafita, Flegler, Farnsworth, Capewell, Coates etc or do you want to go with the fake narative that Penrith are the only club that loses players. Melbourne lost half their forward pack to the Dolphins and still made the grand final two years later.

[@taiyonatiare7918]

Gotta agree with Reid on that one point - it’s not fair for clubs who put more money and effort into the development of their juniors to have to share their juniors around to be “fair”. If all clubs were putting the same resources into their juniors then it’s a different story but not all clubs are

[@jimwilson2609]

can we just edit this so only flanno speaks. Thanks

[@KnuxDeluxe]

Well said

[@ufconlyfamz69]

hard Flanno and James would have a good yarn. too many chefs in this kitchen

[@aksabz]

Mate really enjoy watching the league Roundtable !!

[@kingsman174]

Great watch once again 👏

[@steve9484]

The salary cap can work. All it needs is a cap on 3rd party payments and a rule stating that players can’t sign for a club for less than 95% of their maximum offer.

[@paddyg]

I think we have a bigger coaching talent issue than a player talent issue, the reason storm & Penrith are so successful is cause of Ivan & Bellamy. They've taken fringe Tigers players and turned them into key players of a Grand Final.

[@jeromeierome4523]

Love the conversation gents

[@joshloreto2676]

Bullocks afl had brisbane hawks and gelong dominat for 20 years. Brady won how many rings on 1 team. Golden state warriors built a dynasty. Teams in hockey haven't won in over 50 years..all 4 have drafts ...you can't use a 10 year window..real lack of research here lads come on

[@JohnBibidy]

You’re talking too much sense here mate

[@lliumha]

A draft is a terrible idea unless the NRL completely takes youth development away from the clubs, what incentive would there be for clubs like Penrith to develop players at all if they are just going to lose them in a draft, the other clubs need to get their shit together punishing good clubs is not the solution.

[@uteboy86]

Their not doing that ether because they realise how much money they would lose. Penrith has the biggest junior base in the world just in Penrith not all the other feeder areas they have but they pour in triple what other clubs do and the thing with that alot of those kids never make NRL levels they just support league in the west to keep league strong.

[@Breaking_Sydney]

The competition will never be balanced because clubs are constantly miss managed and it take years to recover from these silly contracts and clauses. Look at all the winning clubs and how their head offices are managed, football departments, culture, Jr coaching & development programs and facilities.

[@Slug2010]

Might be a bit late to this party, and might be a lengthy post, but thought I would add my thoughts anyway. Although a draft would be good, adding it to the NRL might be too disruptive at this stage - would require a shakeup of the entire junior pathways system and how clubs are funded. To create a framework and rules around the transfer system, there needs to be a currency that has value to the clubs, without restricting player movements. A points-based system could provide that currency by being required for all player transfers, contracted and uncontracted - similar to what the AFL has, except they receive draft picks. The system can both reward clubs and players for loyalty, but also give both the ability to wheel and deal at all times. The points would enable clubs to offer deals for all players, including contracted player. Points would also be able to converted into additional salary cap, giving them real value. New contracts cannot be registered if they haven’t offered sufficient transfer points. With the framework, a mid and post season trade window could be enforced and players moving immediately after they are traded. Points would be awarded based on the ladder positions with the lower ranked clubs receiving more. Points would also be received though trades of contracted players and salary cap space, but also uncontracted players where the current clubs are outbid. Points can also be received when a clubs juniors are taken by other clubs, rewarding the junior pathway systems. Offield performance, discipline and judiciary record, and community significance could also be rewarded. Each trade would be evaluated and have a minimum point total based off the size of contract, club junior status, length of service and salary contribution of the current club. The model would be geared towards assisting the bottom ranked clubs, but would still give top ranked clubs compensation for losing players and their juniors. This is great for expansion, as they can be given a large number of points when they enter to help them attract players. For players, although the framework does provide some restriction on the clubs they can go to and trade windows in which to trade, it gives them greater freedom of choice and an ability to negotiate their future at any time. Given the compensation to clubs, it also incentives clubs to allow trades and avoid the players agitating through the media, being held to contracts and coming off poorly in the public eye. It also means they can sign contracts with a little less worry, as they know that there are suitable ways out in the future if needed. For clubs, they would have greater power with contracted players and will be compensated for losing any player, even if out of contract to recognise the work they put in. They would be rewarded for junior development, but also be able to manipulate their roster more effectively. Players still have to want to go to a club, so culture will still be more important than ever. For the media this means more trades and more stories. There are also concentrated period which would mean more eyes during those times - but you can be sure there will be rumours flying all year round. Players actually moving mid-season will also provide great storylines. Still a significant change, and would take a lot to get on board, but could be a way forward.

[@willmclaughlin7166]

This is what i’d do. Sort of follows NBA. Trade Deadline: June 30 (teams can make trades before then) Contract Extension Deadline: August 1 (teams can resign off contract players, players can opt to wait until free agency) Free Agency: 1 week after the Grand Final (Players sign free agents), trade period re-opens for the following season Add in Team Options on final years or Qualifying Offers (teams can offer a contract to players with team options in their final year, club has a chance to match the offer or let them go) Draft: Last Monday-Tuesday of October (with exempt player idea mentioned) November 1: Pre-season starts and players off contract for following year can extend with current team only.

[@MrCarrera28]

Stop discussing the draft, it is such a waste of time. After Terry Hill's court case it was ruled illegal and therefore it would be virtually impossible to implement. It would only take one player or a club to challenge a draft and it would be thrown out.

[@TheNewcastleKnight]

Pardon. What's the Terry Hill court case part ???

[@pstaden]

@@TheNewcastleKnight Hills greatest influence on the game was changing the draft system.[5] Hill became embroiled in the "External and Internal Draft" system in the 1991 season when, after agreeing to a playing and employment deal with the Western Suburbs Magpies, he was drafted from the Internal Draft pool by Eastern Suburbs.[6] Hill and 126 other plaintiffs took the NSW Rugby League to court, arguing the draft was a restraint of trade.[5] Hill's initial appeal was overturned and he eventually agreed to a three-year contract with Easts. By the end of 1991 the High Court had overturned the draft system and in 1992 Hill was given a release and he was able to move on to Western Suburbs Magpies.[6]

[@MrCarrera28]

@@TheNewcastleKnight The NSWRL (the predecessor to the NRL) introduced a draft in 1990. It was challenged successfully in court when Terry Hill did not wish to play for the Sydney Roosters who had drafted him. The courts found that the draft is a restraint of trade and therefore it was not binding. If the AFL Draft was challenged in court, it would almost certainly be found to be illegal; however, because it has been going for so long it seems to be accepted by the clubs and their player's association. The simple fact is a draft is a restraint of trade, there is little point therefore in discussing it in detail. Unless you have a strategy for preventing it being challenged it is a pointless discussion. Media and social media types keep saying we should have a draft without putting forward a strategy to get it accepted by all players and clubs. Without this strategy it is a pointless discussion, just creating hot air.

[@azman5267]

Sorry Jammer but this panel is S*** House… they are all connected in some way; no difference of opinions (only ready sticking up for his manager mates) Mez = Manly Flanno = former manly assistant Woods = manly player Ready = guess what… LIVES IN MANLY There’s no Western Sydney showing, no eastern Sydney, barely any Queensland …….. Love this idea but this one is a joke, of course they all want a draft or transfer window. Joke!

[@TheNewcastleKnight]

​@MrCarrera28 i did not know that.

[@SkeletorsSon]

Couldn't think of a worse line-up all that's missing is Paul Kent

[@TheNewcastleKnight]

Who should they have on the panel??

[@PossumMagic99]

Woods 🤡

[@bobachmar3523]

🤦‍♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 lmaooo read my mind

[@jacksonberry8467]

Keep flanno and lose the rest of them

[@taiyonatiare7918]

Idk I rarely agree with Reid but he makes it interesting and flannos a good watch

[@ufconlyfamz69]

49:46 - that was the dumbest interruption by James, he completely missed the point of what Flanno was getting at

[@bushybill7189]

Yes Penrith have got it right now, but Penrith have had those big number of juniors for years and years, and have only really managed to get it right with sustained success for these last 5 years. Sheer numbers don't guarantee success, the Tigers are evidence of that.

[@SlaintheMhath]

Gus got it right and he is now doing it at the dogs. Dogs juniors are killing it now because Gus has a network of mates who spot talented youngsters.

[@bushybill7189]

@@SlaintheMhath 💯

[@CJH94]

The reason Penrith juniors are great is because of the Penrith system. You take them out of that system and to a shit system they won’t get half the development they need.

[@Soggytiri]

Nice show format!

[@uteboy86]

Just seems like everyone is having a cry because Penrith have used their junior base correctly

[@barryluxford5969]

Maybe the easiest way to even things up is split the league into two divisions. Tier 1 and Tier 2. Each division would play each other team twice. Tier 1 made up of the top 8 teams tier 2 made up of the bottom 9. Each tier would play there own finals of top four teams in each tier with top two from tier 2 promoted to tier 1 the next year and the bottom two of tier 1 relegated to tier 2 at the end of each season. Would provide more interest for fans. Naturally funding needs to be maintained as is from the NRL.

[@shiresmokersbbq8704]

Got to love Tony Mestrovs comment about previous bad management and/or coach and wanting help. If the club doesn’t mess it up in the first place it shouldn’t be an issue! Clubs want help for mistakes they made in the past? Are you serious?

[@nathanlowe2331]

All kids who go to school Year 7 to year 12 and the school is a catchment area where a NRL team plays must be given salary caps exemption

[@Rod-j5z]

In another life, in football we devised a draft system. Basically, all clubs are connected to country areas, set up academies in the big rural centres. Progressing juniors into draft, day, if a particular club has say, 15 come through the they have right to 10 of the 15 and others go into draft with a club loading on the if another club wants them....

[@SlaintheMhath]

The draft has been knocked back twice by the courts, it wont happen. Clubs need to do it for themselves, Gus knows how.

[@muntjunk-plk3171]

No fan wants a draft it will kill our game. We need a professional reserve grade that follows the nrl comp and dedicated nursery system that allows a team a salary cap discount on juniors and nominated marquee players. There’s a massive skill gap for most young players coming through into nrl. Panthers system has somehow solved that and it needs to be baseline for all NRL.

[@uteboy86]

Agreed I miss the cup games before the big boys makes more people turn up too.

[@SlaintheMhath]

@@uteboy86 Three grades on Sunday afternoon was awesome but now you have to fly all of those players to NZ or Townsville or soon PNG.

[@Antvvv]

A draft would be interesting (even though it's been taken to court). They could bring one in but no way the players association would agree to it. It would create more interest in the junior league because people want to know who the next prospect is they could come to their Club. The big difference is the AFL don't develop their juniors through their clubs. The other point is that the AFL players understand that the draught system is there and they accepted if they want to play AFL. Interesting discussion because no easy answers

[@zoranmitrevski-d2d]

Make contracts only 2 years Once you’ve played 6 years you can sign for 3 years. Will fix the salary cap issue clubs get themselves in, and will allow talent to move around more frequently and get players off the book quicker that haven’t worked out or need a change.

[@JustSomebody-e9h]

How are Brent Reed and Aaron Woods getting a run

[@mitchellrom1758]

Timestamps would be nice

[@MadMatt598]

A trade window is exactly what the game is missing. You look at the movements and rumours, you could of potentially had a multi team trade Dragons: In: Holmes, Talagi Out: Hunt, Lomax Broncos: In: Hunt Out: Cobbo Cowboys: In: Cobbo Out: Holmes Eels: In: Lomax Out: Talagi

[@cowann3337]

The reason why Easts have bugger all juniors is because the NSWRFL back in the 1950s and 1980s took Roosters area junior clubs and gave them to an already strong Rabbitohs area in two separate eras. Times have changed and the Roosters should be given back a couple of junior clubs Look it up and you will understand the history and the facts behind it and why things aren't fair at the moment for Easts

[@marcstorey4436]

If you finished last you get more salary cap for the next 3 seasons on a rolling cycle gives the clubs chance to look ahead Whoever finishes top gets zero rise Second gets 5% 3rd 6% and so on Something needs to change otherwise your gonna have the same teams win the comp

[@stayz1724]

Top 4 Teams - No Extra Salary Cap Teams 5-8 Extra Salary Cap money Teams 9-12 Extra Salary Cap money Teams 12 below... Higher Salary Cap (for teams finished in Extra $$$ to entice more quality players - to even playing field across the board. Eg: allows Tigers to puchase not just Luai, and Teruva, but 1-2 more quality players to help improve their positions. Marquee players are enticed due to better financial security. Just an idea.

[@jxswu3224]

Tigers let go 4 of the current top 10 players in the comp rn, that's on them

[@KnuxDeluxe]

1:00:28 Flanno ices it

[@HarrisonRyznar]

This felt like a big winge from Mestrov that Manly isn’t as good a club as Penrith

[@youchwb6005]

Another question is why should successful clubs end up being penalised because of other club''s ineptness? Besides, the actual point of competition is between weak and strong competitors.

[@davidcarroll6222]

Have to say the top clubs get there pathways right and that’s important ..parra should be a power house like the riff but poor management over the years comes back to bite u..good luck ryles for 2025 we need discipline and a clean out .1-3 year plan ..

[@briankennedy1192]

As all Western Suburbs magpies are thinking, Luia is a huge signing especially after the rabble of the last dozen seasons, if he doesn't perform and Benjamin gets canned the fans will give up and the club may as well shut up shop....we're all over the place as is the bloody Roosters sign our top juniors every season Lidcombe has been long forgotten why don't the club play 4 games at least a season there the ghosts of Tommy and Dallas and the spirit of legends like Holman and Les Boyd and John Dorahy etc still echo through the the grand old girl that's Lidcombe oval..

[@christendomempire5657]

Let not impose a communist equality on the game. Sport isn't suppose to be equal. Sure have a salary cap to stop having one club buy out all the good players, but Penrith or Melbourne success is because they develop their juniors. Why should they be punished for that, why should they share the talent they have invested in if only to lose it to other clubs? If that is done then clubs won't bother investing the time and effort in developing their junior only to lose them in the future.

[@SlaintheMhath]

Melbourne have no juniors, they develop other clubs juniors. There was one Victorian player on GF day, he played in the interstate cup match. So much for growing the game. Look at the AFL and how many players are from Sydney and Brisbane now.

[@nathanlowe2331]

Draft🤔 2 words -Terry Hill

[@stevenwebb3634]

Have they ever heard of Terry Hill?

[@Breaking_Sydney]

Solution - Have better club management

[@SlaintheMhath]

The salary cap is bullshit, third party payments are not reported so who knows how much the clubs with wealthy backers are spending. Stefano is the prime example, just bought a home in the west of Sydney and is offered $900k by his club but he leaves for what has been reported as less money to a team who were in the GF and are not losing one player. Amazing cap management, simply amazing. The draft is restraint of trade, it has lost twice in the IRC. For example, I reckon journalists should have to enter a draft, Ready got picked by the WA paper, see ya Ready.

[@azman5267]

Sorry Jammer but this panel is S*** House… they are all connected in some way; no difference of opinions (only ready sticking up for his manager mates) Mez = Manly Flanno = former manly assistant Woods = manly player Ready = guess what… LIVES IN MANLY There’s no Western Sydney showing, no eastern Sydney, barely any Queensland …….. Love this idea but this one is a joke, of course they all want a draft or transfer window. Joke!

[@prazzo1232]

Look, someone important said winning starts in the front office (yes I know who). The teams doing well are great orgs that make the most of their talent. Is it unfair?? Yes it is, because some orgs have better staff and do a better job. Some have great rosters (ahem, Roosters) but can’t get the best out of their team. It’s a huge team effort on and off the field and better clubs work as a team and collectively move in the right direction. Changes to structure can’t change this fundamental reality, and successful organisations will continue to deliver successful teams. Simples.

[@mattwithers1]

Something I didn’t hear discussed was tribalism, I think New Zealand Rugby removed tribalism with Super Rugby and it is now a terrible product, so you need to keep juniors in their own areas as much as possible. There is no silver bullet, but I like hearing conversations like this, and the more that happens the closer a solution comes.

[@KnuxDeluxe]

No problem with a numbers system pulling Tom and Jake out of Manly, doesn't have the backbone to say one single word about how Latrell affected the bunnies last year in his recent season recap. I guess that's why they call the pom BUPA

[@DavidBulsey]

why don't the scouts go and watch the indigenous carnivals there's thousands of players play in those carnivals every year. there are some players who are better than what's getting around in the NRL. natural 'Rugby League' players instead of signing all those kid who play for recognition then run straight to they're mother sport RUGBY

[@JakeHolzheimer]

No one thinks Rugby is the superior sport anymore especially in Australia 😂😂

[@DavidBulsey]

@@JakeHolzheimer I know that I don't care about RUGBY, i'm talking about those kids who grew up supporting RUGBY they come to rugby league then 3-4 years into they careers then they wanna go play RUGBY. Stop signing them

[@DavidBulsey]

@@JakeHolzheimer I tell ya something bud for example for both codes.. 99% of us indigenous mob in NSW/QLD we are rugby league players probably 1% of us RUGBY.. Rugby League Is The Pinnacle For US.. ya get it

[@harleym3275]

​@@JakeHolzheimerLeague only lives because of Australia. No one else gives a fuck for the game

[@kevinknight1924]

Why should Penrith prop up every side. Bulldogs , Tigers , Dolphins at least a quarter of their players are ex Penrith . Melbourne develop the other half of first graders.

[@53af00d]

As a (parra) fan, the constant talk of Lomax back flipping and where is Blaize going to sign? Is he going to re sign. It's so tiring

[@MrCarrera28]

Lomax is not backflipping, he seems to be excited to be coached by Ryles and has been open about needing a change of scenery. Parramatta have gotten themselves a representative player for a below market price who wants to play there. He will play for the Eels in 2025 and provided the club treats him right he will play well for the team.

[@53af00d]

@@MrCarrera28 yeah but the endless talk of backflipping was there all season. the fact we are even talking about 2025 before the conclusion of 2024 just shows the system sucks.

[@MrCarrera28]

@@53af00d But luckily not from Lomax himself who just got on with playing good footy. You have gotten a good player who will deliver and will provide additional consistency in your backline.

[@53af00d]

@MrCarrera28 true, I'm just saying from a fans perspective. Signing a year out can lead to alot of BS through the season. I wish they'd just have a FA period after the GF and then it's done.

[@MrCarrera28]

@@53af00d In which case unfortunately your club would never have gotten Lomax. Lomax had two years left on his Dragons contract and under your scenario he would not have been able to talk to the Eels until October 2026. Lomax was not signed on a November 1 deal he was released by the Dragons from his contract for 2025 and 2026 and therefore could sign with the Eels.

[@uteboy86]

So let me get this right Penrith have literally only been successful for 5 years, before this we had a sprinkling of success but mostly tye club was a basket case. Then sorted out their front office and they also pour more money then anyone into juniors to get these young blokes all you see is the success stories there are plenty of guys who Penrith get up and running who leave to other clubs but also alot or these guys dont make it at all you don't get that money back.

[@Breaking_Sydney]

The Soap Opera Sucks, Fans hate it.

[@greddy2JZ]

Draft could never work here. We dont have a college system like USA where draft systems are most prevalent. It just wouldnt work. Not for a long time anyway

[@BobGym-kk1jk]

Can we get an actual round table smh😂

[@Breaking_Sydney]

From the fans perspective the current system sucks, it's a circus. Contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on. If players want out or clubs want out then it happends, player agents have a conflict of interest and cause alot of these problems.

[@jmoods94]

Why is woods getting traction in the media. Headline merchant

[@bradrayner3257]

Would much rather see a second division and promotion/relegation. The shit clubs wouldnt allow poor performaces for so long i.e the Tigers would have ousted the board and made changes much sooner

[@1362pc]

Why is Reed so outspoken? Has never play a NRL match or any match

[@taiyonatiare7918]

Same reason so many fans are except he gets paid for it

[@KnuxDeluxe]

Step right up step right up! The window has opened, i hope your children brought their school bag because nobody is going home! Player drafts look like cattle sales and there's no respect for anyone under the microscope. If the current system is different than America, well, that's great

[@Villenege]

This reeks of complaining for the sake of it. There’s nothing wrong with the system and the whole point of only 4 teams winning the comp in the past decade has nothing to do with strong recruitment and everything to do with club culture.

[@jeffreyfagasoaia7878]

This was such a one sided discussion around the pros of a draft that they completely overlooked all the shortcomings. With the constant reference to American sports, none of them mentioned that the professional clubs have no ties to these players pre draft as they all go theough the collegiate system. Couldn't believe the chat around why should coaches and clubs have to keep contracted players when they bring in new coaching/club staff. Instead of using the success of certain clubs against them, highlight how poorly the clubs are at the bottom are run. Surely you can't look at teams that are consistently missing the top 8 and say with a straight face that they've ticked all the boxes in terms of club management, culture,pathways, salary cap balance and player development.

[@thygfr]

This podcast should have been called 'James Graham vs 4 idiots'. These fools would also say Origin is a trail for the Australian team and that was NEVER the case. Dead rubbers are pointless and always have been.

[@JRPete]

That's the thing, 🤷 Jammer's vision is on point think of origin being popular. You could make game 3 pay per view, and the earnings could go to Country Rugby League

[@davidcarroll6222]

Have to say the top clubs get there pathways right and that’s important ..parra should be a power house like the riff but poor management over the years comes back to bite u..good luck ryles for 2025 we need discipline and a clean out .1-3 year plan ..