The Politics Behind Revenge of the Sith

Star Wars has always been influenced by contemporary politics, and today we're breaking down the context of George writing Revenge of the Sith and how the context of the time reflected itself in the movie.
Edited by MarMarBunBun
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#starwars #lore
Star Wars, Revenge of the Sith, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, Padme, Order 66

[@Ikcatcher]

Padme drops the hardest line about liberty dying with thunderous applause and fans will think it's not political

[@NightshadeDE]

I have heard someone in the same breath complain the phantom menace spent to much time on the senate then complain about how modern Star Wars is to political

[@Aries2890]

@@NightshadeDE The problem is that people are too swallowed up in propaganda. The sequels are, at worst, pandering, there's actually barely any politics in them what so ever.

[@DrUmar-gu4kp]

​@@Aries2890 Too many people see woman and black people in media as "leftist propaganda" so irregardless of how non political the sequels actually are they will still claim they're political.

[@russellharrell2747]

@@Aries2890the sequels’ politics only went as far as ‘fascism bad’ and ‘blowing up planets bad’. Far from the more nuanced but still juvenile level politics of the OT and PT.

[@KAISERaw17]

@@russellharrell2747 juvenile feels harsh but they are literally geared towards children so it’s intended to be juvenile. Fun line of thought lol

[@MrCardinalzboy]

Weird how 21 Trillion Credits went missing before the Jedi Temple attack

[@CloneCaptainKeeli]

Lmao

[@Alexthe360Great]

Something I noticed that I wanted to bring up. The last vote (at least in Legends) that the Senate has is to make Palpatine the Emperor. Padme tells the Loyalist Committee (Bail, Mon, and gang) to vote Palpatine in order to bide time. Then, she dies. So, her last vote as a Senator is to help establish the Empire. Her last acts as a human being are to bring forward the Skywalker children and save her colleagues, toppling said Empire.

[@gups4963]

Ultimate lesson that mob rule ends badly

[@s7robin105]

The politics of the prequel trilogy are in large part why I think they have an edge over the sequels. The sequels had their moments here and there but it felt largely apolitical in a time that was anything but

[@KaliahSheDevil]

lmfao the sequels are not remotely apolitical, I think your comprehension for this might be a bit broken

[@s7robin105]

@@KaliahSheDevil You have the bare bones of "The Empire are kinda like that one historical group" and the general themes of rebellion. But in terms of actually saying something the most we had was commentary on war profiteering. But beyond that there was very little

[@KaliahSheDevil]

@@s7robin105 I hope your media literacy and comprehension improves ❤

[@s7robin105]

@@KaliahSheDevil You could at the very least explain what I missed. I haven't watched the movies since they came out

[@s7robin105]

@@KaliahSheDevil Unless you think political amounts to a main character being female or a main character being some other minority. That itself is not political unless you're weird

[@Parocha]

Works of fiction can become prescient by accident. I went to the opening night of Attack of the Clones in Venezuela; when Palpatine was granted emergency powers at the end of the movie, the iconic “I love Democracy” line was met with laughter by the audience, since we were experiencing a “soft” takeover of power by the Executive Branch of our government at the moment, in a manner quite similar to the way shown in the movie: control over the Senate, manipulation of information, and control over the security forces. I recall someone in the audience yelling “not here, too!!” - the theater burst into laughter; we all knew what he meant

[@ScharfesS]

That wasnt an accident

[@ANEbk9]

Really enjoyed this series. Not a common offering in star wars content, but an interesting topic to dive into.

[@sambridgers9543]

Labyrinth of Evil also goes into this.

[@CoreysDatapad]

I allude to that a bit at the end, that (and some of the other books in that period) are probably the next of these

[@jacobgordon7998]

The politics within the Star Wars saga borrows from real-world current (at the time) and historical politics. It is still self-contained within the logic and canon of the SWU and lives on in that universe long after the current time becomes a historical time in the real world. Part of the beauty of the SWU. 19 years after the last real episodic Star Wars film they still stand the test of time, where the Disney produced episodic films and D+ series created more recently, in large part do not stand the test of time. Ironically, it is the standalone film Rogue One and the D+ series Andor which actually pick up on the politics from GL's Star Wars saga and do it justice, which make them unquestionably the best Star Wars productions under the Disney banner. If only everything they did was so good.

[@gups4963]

It borrows mostly from Flash Gordon and Dune, most of the politics it borrows amounts to people reading what they want into it. Not saying it isn't political, but just read through the comments, people seeing the same event in a movie from 15 different political events

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Yeah someone gets it here.

[@thesunisgonnablowup]

Great video! I would love to see you breakdown some of the politics behind various Thrawn books.

[@PenguinofD00mxxx]

I really love these. Edit: George Lucas: "Democracy and Freedom is being given away in this country, and this film is a warning." 12 year old Me: "Haha, lightsabers go buzz."

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

Sadly thousands of people never grew up from their "lightsaber go buzz" mindset

[@SpFlash1523]

​@@HotDogTimeMachine385 Or "spaceships go pugh, pugh."

[@ghostlyfieldclub2930]

Bzz? More like *Wwhsoopooshhhvroomvblshshhsgs*

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

​@HotDogTimeMachine385Bricks and screws...

[@NicklasZandeVGCP2001]

There are also some Civil War parallels, since the CIS is somewhat similar to the CSA, in that they were both secessionist movements who wanted independence for nefarious reasons. With Count Dooku especially paralleling Robert E. Lee, as both rich bearded aristocrats who once were loyal to the US Armed Forces and Jedi Order, even being high ranking in both, Lee being a General, and Dooku being a Jedi Master, before they became high ranking figures in both seperatist movements. The Clone Army being called the "Grand Army of the Republic" is also a parallel to the Union Army during the Civil War, as that's what their full name was. Obi Wan Kenobi can be considered a parallel to General Grant, as he would rise from a low ranking general/knight, to a full-blown commanding general/master in their factions, and they were both Lee and Dooku's arch rivals during their respective wars, and also had a name change for certain reasons. Anakin can be a parallel to Sherman, since they were both extremely aggressive and at times reckless, Anakin's slaughter of the Seperatist Council on Mustafar and Sherman's March to the Sea in Georgia are huge examples of this, but, in their defense, it was done to bring a quick end to the war, and to restore piece, unity, freedom, justice, and security to the Republic, now the Empire. Though, the Seperatists and the Confederates weren't above aggressiveness and human rights abuses as well. As General Grievous parallels Stonewall Jackson, as they were both hardassed, stern, and aggressive generals who at times had strange behavior, and had hoarse voices, and they both met their ends by being gunned down in battle. Though Stonewall was accidentally gunned down by his own men, and Grievous was gunned down by Obi Wan in battle. Also, like in the Iraq War, the Democratic Party was divided on whether or not they supported the war. Some supported the war as a means to preserve unity, while others, known as the "Copperheads", were against the war, and wanted to see it come to an end and let the South go, similar to how some of Palpatine's opposition was divided on continuing the Clone Wars as long as possible, some wanted an end to the war, while others wanted it to continue until the seperatists were defeated.

[@Pittcrew1034]

My favorite ROTS line is always “Democracy is KZbin Commenters joking Revans Revenge into existence.”

[@gus12793]

I've been looking forward to this

[@Parocha]

My political acumen has doubled since the last time we met, Count

[@SpFlash1523]

​@@Parocha Good. Twice the pride, double the fall.

[@klausvonklempt]

These videos were excellent! Please continue them with whatever Star Wars media you think relevant!

[@goodman4966]

Great video I do enjoy hearing a Canadian explaining better job at American politics of the early 2000s then many Americans who lived through and who were politically engaged in that time .😂

[@braxtongrundy4625]

Prequels conceptually has always been my favorite, George was obviously biting lol

[@freebobbyshmurda4903]

Great video, It’s scary how relevant and applicable the political undertone of the prequels was to the bush era war on terror even though the explicit themes were about Nixon and Vietnam

[@ultratankie]

Even though this series is partly a response to modern Star Wars being "too political," I think it would be interesting to look at actual political themes (rather than just certain groups of people existing) in Star Wars over the last few years. For example, the first High Republic book was delayed because of the COVID pandemic, and then released with a pointed scene where the Supreme Chancellor shuts down all hyperspace travel in response to a deadly crisis, ignoring those in her government who warn that this will hurt business interests.

[@proape6052]

You can also argue that Star Wars is extremely pro gun. A tyrannical government forms from a democratic government that's thousands of years old. The Rebels didn't win with just small blasters and political actions, they had advanced star fighters and massive multiple kilometer long capital ships. Mon Calamari cruisers may be civilian ships, but they have enough armor and turbo lasers to brawl Imperial warships.

[@ultratankie]

@@proape6052 It definitely has a lot of heroes who are armed (legally or illegally) and can fight back as a result, and it seems to criticize disarmament in the new canon.

[@proape6052]

​@@ultratankie I'd be surprised if that was the intended message, though that's the cool thing about political media. Anyone can draw their own conclusions for their own political ideas. For example, I think that military force is an absolute necessity for a nation. In Star Wars, I could draw that this is the message because in the prequels, the Republic were helpless because they demilitarized. The clone army saved them but imagine if a crisis happened without Sidious. In fact, you can see this IRL. NATO had a big problem with under spenders then the Ukraine War starts and several European powers are rearming.

[@rolef6084]

@@proape6052you think ppl drawing their own conclusions is what makes it cool, while i for one think it makes political media appalling. Those conclusions almost always come forth from their own biases, which turn a good piece of media and film into just another political debate of which we 1 have more then enough of already w social media and 2 causes more divide. In a world thats already so divided movies should bring us together instead of dividing us even further

[@matthewsetlak5589]

Would love to see this done with the books and the clone wars

[@DelzaArmy]

Love these videos, and would love to see more of them!

[@RoyalFusilier]

A really refreshing set of videos, this was. Very satisfied, we are.

[@trovulnyan3370]

13:04 I finished reading Labyrinth of Evil recently, and it was very good. Now I'm starting the ROTS novel

[@uriustosh]

Star Wars has always been overtly anti-imperialist, pro-equality, has always had strong female leadership (Mon Montha! Leia!), and drew direct parallels to contemporary and recent events. The Empire is a human supremacist, authoritarian state which drew inspiration from WW2 Germany. George Lucas is a liberal, he believes in liberalism. He isn't a right winger, he isn't a left winger more's the pity. He is a centrist liberal and his films reflect that. He loves equal rights, civil liberties, and mostly anti-war (as long as the good guys dont need to do war).

[@sambridgers9543]

"More's the pity"?

[@random135246]

I would say he’s even more left than a liberal as liberals are broadly not anti imperialists

[@ironinquisitor3656]

All art is that way to a degree.

[@nickmalachai2227]

This makes the sequel trilogy stand out in how politics-avoidant it is in tone, fitting with Disney's desire to maintain a broader audience with its conservative American appeal. This is not absent of politics due to the pervasive nature of politics in life and art, but it is interesting to consider.

[@ThisLiberalPopulist]

I mean, the Rebellion is a stand-in for the Viet Cong, Sidious and the Empire are stand-ins for Nixon and the US under a GOP government, and Valorum and the Republic under him was modeled after Clinton and his centrist-aligned New Democrats. Like, no doubt Lucas is a strong advocate of liberal democracy and is openly supportive of the Democratic Party (and SW is somewhat of a not-so-subtle antifascist work explicitly aimed against the GOP and similar right-wing political groups and the economic special interests that fund them; prominent example: Nute Gunray is a play on both Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich, both prominent Republicans of the 1980s and 90s).

[@soopakoopa6461]

It never ceases to boggle my mind how the franchise that historically beats its viewers over the head with political messages somehow didn't become political until we got a movie starring a woman and a black guy.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

It's pretty much true that all art has some sort of influence from the real world. However... How is it "beating it's viewers over the head with its messages" when I had to research and look up what George intended and what he was influenced from the real world when he wrote the films? What does that say that I had to look at external outside film information and research from Lucas's statements about what he was commenting on about the real world and not pick up it up from watching the films themselves? Really shows it really wasn't in your face obvious as you or Corey insist it is. you could bring up Nute Gunray being named after Newt Gingrich but their names are far apart enough that it hides it a bit, plus Gunray sounds nothing like Gingrich. When I hear "Gunray" I picture some sci fi ray gun not some old crusty Republican guy. It really shows George Lucas was actually a genius as a writer, walking the thin fine line of Star Wars being used as an allegory for the real-world events while still having it be escapism to a degree. Most of those chuds you reference had no problem with movies starring women and black guys from the past. You'll see them praise movies from the past that have diverse casts, and you could look deep enough at those movies messages from the past they praise and try to find something that they'd complain about but they don't. It tells me that "politicz in muh entertainmunt" was never their actual real problem, even if the chudz deluded themselves so hard into that's what their problem is. I don't have a black and white view on this subject like Corey or the chuds he's trying to own in these videos.

[@SonKertedeYT]

Since the fall of the USSR, neoliberal capitalists have so strongly indoctrinated the people to be in the center, to have no ideology etc. that people now think skin color or sexual preference has something to do with politics (they call it woke I guess, to even belittle this?).

[@TheHero136]

When people complain about “the politics” in Star Wars, that’s just a sign of them not being engaged with the wider story at a surface level. Or they just hate seeing things like women, minorities, etc and don’t know how to say otherwise.

[@Capt_CrimsoN]

I think it's definitely more of a the former. There are criticisms to be had with modern Star Wars, but anytime someone tries to cite "woke", it's always the former. Woke is just a right-wing buzzword for "not liking women, POC or anyone "different" being in media".

[@paulrasmussen8953]

​@@Capt_CrimsoN weong is wone is being racists

[@seto_kaiba_]

@@Capt_CrimsoN Yeah this is blatantly untrue. I hate how wokeness has ruined media nowadays and its got nothing to do with more women and minorities. The only time I complain about that is when it blatantly doesn't make sense and even then I end up making excuses for it. I celebrate diversity in film but I can't stand political correctness repressing good stories--its almost like a progressive version of the Hays Code nowadays or plots being ruined by culturally left wing politics being force fed into the narrative.

[@gups4963]

@@Capt_CrimsoN "woke", would apply to what was done to Luke to prop up rey. You are assuming way too much

[@gups4963]

Great, now it goes full lefty 0 jerk. Or they realise that all the political subjects that have been applied to the PT and OT have more to do with just making a story

[@neilhannan5112]

Fans of STAR WARS Now: it's ruined it's now Woke STAR WARS Prequel Trilogy Clone Wars and Original Trilogy: 😕🙁

[@JBTriple8]

Andor, Rogue One and even Ahsoka are largely Apolitical(Showing both sides fighting oppression or resurgence of former political power) that why I like them Apolitical Star Wars is not just good Star Wars but good Story telling in General.

[@supremespoon1757]

@@JBTriple8 If you think Andor is apolitical I have to doubt whether or not you know what that word means.

[@DoctorJedi2742]

@@JBTriple8 Andor apolitical? the show that portays faccists as insecure man children who live with their parents and are easily lead, WTH are you talking about?

[@JJA8020]

​@@JBTriple8Bro, Andor is like the MOST political Star Wars media what are you talking about?

[@CK-530]

@@JBTriple8dude, what? Andor is the story of how a man becomes radicalized to join a rebellion. ANYTHING but apolitical. In fact, Andor goes out of its way to show “If you try to sit this out, they will come for you eventually”

[@goldenfiberwheat238]

1:38 why is Napoleon listed there? The first republic was absolutely not a democracy. And Robespierre was so much worse. Was Napoleon a dictator? Yes. But he shouldn’t be on that list

[@PublicDomainArchive1]

Robespierre had been dead for several years before Napoleon's coup against the Directorate.

[@captain-chair]

Robespierre was literally a scapegoat. Perhaps you don't believe that people who cut off 100,000 heads won't do everything in their power to deflect all of the blame onto someone else... Then you're frankly naive. Was Rosepierre partly responsible? In part, but to blame it all on him is historical revisionism which attained popularity partly because it was useful for the others who partook in it to... Come out of it with a head on their shoulders. One dude doesn't do mass executions... It requires hundreds of people and an entire legal apparatus to do so. Additionally I would say the First French was a Democracy but a highly unstable one. The same thing that makes the masses want to relinquish democracy is the same pulse and core which has them indulge in mass political violence no? At least from the Lucasian perspective. The First French republic banned slavery, the First French Empire reinstituted it. Additionally I believe Haiti is a great example of a democratic movement engaging in large scale mass violence, and it's especially relevant due to it occuring around the same time as the beginning of the Napoleonic period... As of course Haiti was a French slave colony.

[@SonKertedeYT]

"Robespierre worse, Napoleon was not that bad" is a typical neoliberal point of view. Robespierre, ie. Jacobins acted so the republic might survive the counter-revolutionary attacks within France. Napoleon and people like him snuffed the revolution and started the conquest of Europe to make them bow down to the French. Napoleon was one of the first liberal (economy) minded dictators who dreamed to be come a second Caesar, Alexander. Anyway, maybe it's time to have a non-liberal point of view of the French revolution?

[@goldenfiberwheat238]

@@SonKertedeYT my problem is with Robespierre’s purges and suppression of Christianity. Those are far worse than anything napoleon did (literally just conquer Europe with most of his battles being in fields away from population centers so it wasn’t like civilians were dying en masse or anything)

[@brickcraftproductions3065]

A younger me didn't like political themes in fiction, and here I am considering about adding themes of Protectionism and Militarism in a Star Wars story I'm working on, it's fascinating how the my favorite Movie in Star Wars also serves as a cautionary tale about how does a democratic system falls apart, and here I am trying to tell a story on trying to protect that system by any means necessarily while trying to preserve that system, even to it's core values.

[@xy7596]

Love this. pls keep this series going

[@grandadmiralzaarin4962]

What about the politics of the Star Wars Holiday Special?

[@GazingTrandoshan]

VR porn is the future

[@ryandude3]

Would love to hear you go into more of the political details with Labyrinth of Evil, as well as the preceding ones going back to Darth Plagueis!

[@DanTheYoutubeAddict]

I would be interested in hearing about the politics of the New Jedi Order series or the Outbound Flight book. I have not read either but I have heard that there are some significant political parallels in them to events at the time that they were written and especially with the New Jedi Order series there are some interesting contrasts with how political and government institutions are viewed at the time compared to today. Thank you for these videos and I look forward to your future content.

[@CoreysDatapad]

I actually did a standalone video on Outbound Flight last year if you want to check that out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZeldGmZlJWMjdk

[@DanTheYoutubeAddict]

@@CoreysDatapad thank you. I watched it at the time and had since forgotten about it.

[@calvincoolidge5943]

Lucas' paranoia on Nixon is hillarious in some point *I personally don't like Nixon too, but c'mon

[@Richard-iw1dd]

Agreed, the irony is that while Nixon was his inspiration for Palpatine, Lucas inadvertently made him much more an allegory for FDR than anyone else.

[@myronstokes5585]

I’m writing a Star Wars story and it’s also going to be inspired by politics. My story talks about how just how evil and corrupt the Empire really is. The story is also going to be inspired by my own life but also the movies and tv shows that I grew up watching. The Empire is going to do something that you’ve never experienced before. This time you will get to experience more of the hardcore Vader and the political situation in the galaxy is going to be very clear and it will be emphasizing my own life and the lives of my family members. Me and my family reflect the things that inspired Star Wars. The reason why I’m doing this is because when you’re telling a story you’re telling a story using tools. You’re not using tools to tell a story. When Star Wars the original trilogy came out it was inspired by the Vietnam War, WWII, spaghetti western films, and samurai films. The Star Wars sequel trilogy was just inspired by Star Wars and there was nothing new. Before George Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney, he had plans for the Star Wars sequel trilogy but Disney discarded his ideas for episodes seven, eight, and nine because they wanted to make retro movies that were like the original trilogy. George Lucas’s ideas for the sequel trilogy were better because they were inspired by the aftermath of the Iraq war and it deals with post war reconstruction. Leia would struggle to rebuild the New Republic and the Empire would be like Saddam Hussein’s Baathist fighters who join ISIS and keep on fighting and they would refuse to give up when the Republic won. A power vacuum would emerge and Darth Maul would unite the criminal underworld and the remnants of the Empire against the New Republic. Luke SkyWalker would rebuild the Jedi Order at the end of the sequel trilogy and Leia would successfully rebuild the New Republic and she would be elected as the new Supreme Chancellor of the Republic. Those story ideas from George Lucas were great and it was so much better than what we got from the Disney version. You can’t understand Star Wars without understanding the politics behind it. You can’t understand Star Wars the life of George Lucas. This is how Star Wars lost its vision. Sometimes we forget that Star Wars created as an expression of George Lucas himself. I love Star Wars because you always get to tell a story and you get to add in new characters. I love Star Wars because Star Wars reflects me and my family’s lives.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

I'm doing the same thing with my story of Jedi Padawan Eren Oresh. His loneliness during Order 66 and struggle to survive against the Empire is influenced by the isolation many including me have dealt with during Covid.

[@myronstokes5585]

@@ironinquisitor3656 ok. So the story is inspired by your own life and how isolated we were during the COVID pandemic?

[@myronstokes5585]

@@ironinquisitor3656 is Erem Oresh a Jedi padawan you created or is he a Star Wars character?

[@ironinquisitor3656]

@@myronstokes5585 Eren is an OC so he's my creation! Yeah my experiences and others during the pandemic!

[@myronstokes5585]

@@ironinquisitor3656 wow that’s an amazing idea

[@msm1876]

GREAT analysis.

[@RyanBride620]

Another epic video.

[@parkerdixon-word6295]

Because I don't expect you to have as much material to do something like this about the sequels, it's also worth at lead mentioning that the sequels have in some ways an even more interesting relationship with the politics of the day, even ignoring whatever idiots point out as being political- diverse casts, empowered female characters, and one frame of two women kissing in the background are a lot less interesting from this analytical perspective than how the way The Force Awakens positioned the New Republic, Resistance, and First Order. The New Republic's devastation in The Force Awakens is explicitly a story about complacent governments failing to stop the return of fascist ideology, and the heroic actions of people who push back against those institutions to fight evil anyways in the form of The Resistance. That's a *really* late 2010s/2020s expression of cynical disappointment in our institutions, and in perceived complacency or collaboration with evil in our society. The fact that it's all just the background understanding of what's going on in the setting is interesting, because it makes the whole thing feel more subconscious- this is stuff the movies don't think *needs* explaining, because it already plays into the cultural zeitgeist of the time.

[@CoreysDatapad]

This is actually fairly close to the approach I've taken when talking about more modern stuff. Mostly something I've gone into when talking about High Republic when we've done the Tapcaf episodes on them

[@laisphinto6372]

except thats your headcannon and the sequels background is devoided of anything

[@parkerdixon-word6295]

@@laisphinto6372 How is "The Government signed a peace treaty with evil, who betrayed and destroyed them, and the heroes are the people who ignored the peace treaty and kept fighting evil" *NOT* the explicit text of the film? That's not headcanon, that's paying attention.

[@nightthrasher24]

​@@parkerdixon-word6295 I don't think the the treaty is mentioned in the films, only the books like Aftermath

[@RevanX77]

The difference between the prequels and the sequels is that the prequels are prescient and subversive in that they're acting as a criticism of the ongoing political mainstream, while the sequels are merely reinforcing the standard positions of the nomenclature. Whereas the prequels say that the establishment is reaching for power and control and suppressing liberty, the sequels are saying the establishment should have had more power and control in order to protect liberty. It's essentially the exact opposite message of the prequels. Setting aside inane criticisms of the Holdo plotline because she had purple hair or was a woman, the issues with that section of the movie encapsulates the failing of the sequels perfectly, because it is suggesting that one should blindly trust in the guidance of authority even when it's impossible to understand it's motives or intentions. Meanwhile, the shallowness of the sequels' politics really comes to a head in RoS with the FO and the finale and "citizen's fleet", which is simply vapid and again in complete contradiction with the prequels, subverting the core message that the loss of liberty comes from within, rather than being a product of some otherized force. You could even say that's like the main message of George's movies, since ultimately Luke or Anakin's biggest enemy isn't really someone else that they must defeat, but rather the danger of losing themselves to their own inner darkness.

[@lynnerose7891]

He was right…and prophetic.

[@scoobyrds]

Thank you for this Corey

[@gumdeo]

"I am the Senate!" was clearly a reference Louis XIV, King of France.

[@Pittcrew1034]

Great stuff Corey. ❤

[@ArcaneAvian19]

Wow those opening lines hit a little too hard right now.

[@chasehedges6775]

Revenge Of The Sith is the best Star Wars movie

[@justcallmeSheriff]

Will you do a video(s) about the polo it is in the clone wars tv show? It’s seems like that is where Lucas was able to make his most explicit criticisms of the Vietnam War and War on Terror.

[@JBTriple8]

Science Fiction has always been a vehicle to address political issues that's what I love about aside from it being prophetic in nature also Frank Herbert did the same thing with Paul Atreides becoming the God-Emperor which Lucas must taken some inspiration as well in that universe its given away and like Anakin Skywalker it deals with Avenging Love(d) ones.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Star Trek is one of the best examples.

[@warlordofbritannia]

The part about people giving away democracy to a dictator just became even more disturbing.

[@nexscarecrow]

Just subbed. Dope vid. Coreys Datapad? More like Coreys Basedapad

[@Capt_CrimsoN]

I've been saying this for awhile. "Fans" accusing Star Wars of being "woke" now just make me wonder what the fuck they were watching the entire time they watched the prequels or originals.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

I guess it's because the commentary in those films weren't as heavy handed or unsubtle as Corey and other people think or claim. You could argue that naming Nute Gunray after Newt Gingrich isn't subtle but the name change hides it a bit adding a degree of subtly. People just hate shitty writing even if the Chud side doesn't want to admit it or agrees on the reality of that.

[@Dario-uj6qo]

Movies that weren't woke

[@Capt_CrimsoN]

@@Dario-uj6qo Define "woke".

[@Dario-uj6qo]

@@Capt_CrimsoN it would be a little hard to give s concrete and acurate definition but if I had to so right now without much time it would be something along the lines of: a myraid of modern leftist ideologies in wich they try to falsely virtue themself as being some sort of saving grace against an imaginary opresion with the use of strawmans, having a poor acting and understanding of reality and thinking they are progresding to the right direction where all people should

[@Dario-uj6qo]

@@Capt_CrimsoN did you get my coment? I can't see it

[@GazingTrandoshan]

Imagine if they made Kylo do a Trump quote, Anakin literally did a variation of a sitting presidents quote during the HEIGHT of the film lol, Nute Gunray literally is making fun of a republican, ironically starwars is at its best when its trying to say something valuable , just so many outside sources bog it down due to streaming/Disney rules annoying shit which elevate stupid people into circles where people are trying to give lucasfilms feedback

[@laisphinto6372]

except it wasnt that blatant nobody needed to know worthless shitty overrated american politics to understand the prequels. it made sense in the star wars universe compared to most modern movies who beat you over the head with american politics that make nos sense in the fictional setting

[@gups4963]

Imagine the people who saw that and got all happy about would later be siding with the same people. Enjoy the uniparty

[@katakesh8566]

There goes Woke George Lucas injecting his Liberal worldview down the throats of the working man /s But seriously though, Lucas was always commenting on history, events lining up are fortunate (because history, like poetry rhymes) , that it grossed as much as it did is the extraordinary part People will forever rag on him as a storyteller but thats cuz he makes it look easy

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I'll mostly rag on him for his strange filmmaking methods (there's a good reason why people think his ex-wife is the real mother of Star Wars during the Original Trilogy years) and his misguided nostalgia on outdated media (Flash Gordon just isn't as prescient as Alien+Aliens, for one).

[@ironinquisitor3656]

All art does to a degree.

[@legometaworld2728]

Truths the toxic fans don’t want to know: Old Star Wars isn’t apolitical and it doesn’t love capitalism.

[@christianfaux736]

None of you know what "capitalism" means, it's just a cheap, dirty word.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

That's kind of interesting when one of the deleted scenes for ANH has a slight nod to government control of the economy when the scene mentions corporations being nationalized by the Empire. It's anti greed fore sure though.

[@stargatecommand714]

​@@christianfaux736ditto when you use communist as an insult lol

[@christianfaux736]

@@stargatecommand714 how did you know I do that all the time? Lol

[@JohnAtDawn]

In keeping with the ideas expressed in this series, I have thought for a while that the retcon of the control chips in the clones was a reaction to real life events as well, specifically the war crimes committed by the American armed forces in Iraq.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Damn never thought of that idea!

[@Hello-bi1pm]

Americans put chips in soldiers?

[@stargatecommand714]

People conveniently forget about that

[@v4ngu4rd84]

So many typos.

[@republicsoundtracks]

2:33 proofread your texts bro :)

[@AuntyKsTarot]

The thing is, Lucus is critical of the usa rather than a party. Remember the good guys cheer it on. As an Indigenous person I enjoy this.

[@YarPirates-vy7iv]

You have the same voice and speech patterns as 12tone. Be you he?

[@sandtrooper956]

If the prequels came out today they'd be called woke.

[@jek_si2251]

I'd say it's unlikely. The parts of contemporary star wars media people are complaining about are the bad ones. No one calls Rogue One woke for having a female lead, because it's just a good, fun movie. On the other hand, the sequels are garbage - and when the people who made the movies say that they're actually good because "representation", the disappointed audience starts to associate "representation" with "bad movie".

[@goodman4966]

​@@jek_si2251agree to disagree as it's because oftentimes the fandom (usually the right-leaning and straight up far right members of it often attack these products IE attack the actors are the overall diversity of the show as the reason why these products are failures instead of looking at other factors and usually call anyone defending the show a shell ) personally for me it's kind of matter your opinion whatever you think the current Star wars media is good or bad as I don't like to the sequel trilogy it definitely feels more like a rush job by Disney to get remaining surviving actors on the OT when was parts of Georgia's original script for the sequel trilogy mash it together with which is the original trilogy with changes.

[@CoreysDatapad]

The problem with your argument is that people did, in fact, call Rogue One woke. The way the cycle goes is they call it woke and then when the next thing comes out they start calling *that* woke while saying "see how nobody called X woke? It's because that was good and this was bad" even though all the cases of them calling the thing they're now saying was the good thing (Rogue One, Andor, Ahsoka, whatever else) are all still up. The complaints about "woke" start when casts get announced. At that point, how exactly are they just commenting on the quality of the work?

[@goodman4966]

The only criticism I remember from rogue one with people largely from the Legends crowd accusing the film of being a rip-off of prior stories surrounding how the rebels got the death Star plans including the main protagonist herself or what are some people the CGI use of tarkin and Leia turn the hallway scene involving Vader but what is the net it was largely positive I think because this is around the time you start seeing the use of that word in Media by the right before then it was usually the word political correctness.

[@laisphinto6372]

no it wouldnt and stop lying the prequel politics are about the politics in star wars not the real world.

[@kingofcards9]

Star wars is political. But it is not nuanced enough to be taken seriously.

[@Robocopnik]

I mean, the opening is all about 9/11, it's a corrupt leader seizing power by exploiting an attack on the cultural capital of the Empire.

[@HoboBrute]

I genuinely do not understand conservative fans of Star Wars and other Sci-fi. Like, you do know that you're the villains, right?

[@jek_si2251]

I recommend leaving your bubble, my friend. Obi-wan is a character a lot of conservatives can identify with: doesn't really want to care about politics, but gets involved when he sees the Old Republic he grew up in turning into something new and terrifying. (Edit:spelling)

[@Parocha]

The Rebel Alliance could EASLY be labeled as a terrorist organization, from a certain point of view

[@Parocha]

@@jek_si2251you are conflating “conservative” as an adjective with “Conservative” as a political stance. Obi-Wan was a conservative Jedi, but the original post was about the Conservative followers.

[@HoboBrute]

@jek_si2251 and I recommend you go and take a media literacy class. I can guarantee that Obi-Wan wouldn't be going out to strip my friends and family of their rights. This whole I don't actually care about politics lie is such bullshit, conservatives just don't want marginalized people having rights and now that legal systems are being adjusted to allow for that, and media is offering them representation, they claim that things have been made political

[@banishedepsilon1802]

I don't think evil exclusively conforms to a specific political ideology...

[@bigdoubleu117]

Based on many of the comments, I can only imagine this video is a response to fans saying, "modern Star Wars is too political," type of rhetoric. The issue with pointing out Lucas Star Wars also being political, is that people already know the Prequels had politics in the story, with the literal senate meetings, but also with, at least The Prequels, being a parallel to the Vietnam War. Nobody should like war or our rights being violated. This is why people don't have an issue with the Lucas Star Wars politics as much, other than being boring or pointless to some. Not to mention that it would never extend outward. Maybe George talked about those parallels in interviews, but it was never an attack on fans. And that's the big difference! With Disney's Star Wars, the politics were from actors, directors, project leads, both in the films and out of the films. The politics outside of Disney Star Wars became, if you don't like this or critique a character, you must be an ist or phobe. It's that nonsense people are tired of and why modern everything is "too political." The writing and plot of Disney's stories is focusing too much on modern politics that they aren't telling a good story with good characters. That's why people point out the "too political" argument.

[@CoreysDatapad]

Anything that's trying to justify why people didn't have a problem with Lucas' movies being political is building on a flawed premise. Even some of the quotes in this feet video are responses from people working on the prequels to the significant conservative backlash to episode 3, not to mention, again, the explicit naming of prequel characters after contemporary politicians. When people criticized certain characters as being racial stereotypes, Lucas also said "maybe those people are the racists." He sold the franchise because of how people behaved towards him and responded to the prequels. Pretending this kind reaction didn't exist and using that as a premise to explain how the newer stuff is doing something to antagonize fans to act a way they didn't before is, frankly, nonsense. The critiques of "politics" in new stuff happens the moment as cast list gets released and isn't sufficiently white and male for some people, or there's a gay couple somewhere. That seems to be overwhelmingly what is considered "modern politics" getting too much focus, compared to literally naming villains after political opponents and talking about how they specifically inspired those characters.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

RotS' themes actually being done way before the Iraq liberation sure reminds me of how the Lord of the Rings books' plotlines were already set in stone before WW2 happened, let alone ended. Not sure what to say about Watergate, but man, do I need to see more fiction that paints the Allied efforts in the Vietnam War and the Patriot Act in a more sympathetic light, even if it means doing What Ifs like having a Dr. Manhattan figure turn the tide for good. (Yes, this also means brutally deconstructing some of Lucas' views, but that's expected, for he's no God.) Meantime, I really, REALLY sympathize with J.R.R. Tolkien preferring applicability over allegory when it comes to media then and now. People like Lucas focusing too much on the latter, sprinked with misguided nostalgia for out-of-place stuff like Flash Gordon, just seems too much to an audience exhausted by meanspirited fiction becoming reality and the growing existence of disposable cringe media.

[@Hello-bi1pm]

You could say it was predictive programming if you are a conspiracy theorist 😂

[@generalj216]

Tolkien truly is the goat

[@MaCabaret]

Star Wars is political. Most people are too obtuse to understand it any deeper than “we’re the Jedi/rebels/good guys, you’re the sith/ empire/bad guys”.

[@justcallmeSheriff]

I would love to ask George Lucas about how the prequels would have changed if he had started writing the scripts in the last years of Bush's term as President. The Clone Wars novels are already deeply critical of the War on Terror, and I couldn't imagine just how angry Republicans would be with this version of the prequels!

[@slasher5095]

If you don't like this video, you are secretly a sith...

[@gups4963]

OK

[@DarthVages]

👍

[@steveempire4625]

George Lucas had a diseased mind when it came to America. He saw America as the enemy that was destroyed by the Viet-Cong Ewoks in Return of the Jedi while most American audience members saw the Empire as a version of Nazi Germany. No one saw the Empire as America except Lucas. He continues his Nixon is Hitler is Palpatine nonsense in the prequels with some added adjustments to dig at Bush. He furthers his anti-American hatred by purposefully adding the red scare into Indiana Jones Crystal Skull and making the Soviets fairly civil. Ultimately though, this political rant is baseless and nonsensical. American democracy kept going as it always had while millions of Vietnamese, Afghans, and Iraqis were slaughtered, persecuted, imprisoned, reeducated, and starved once America disengaged. Therefore, it's better to put aside Lucas' demented views of his own country and focus on the more realistic WW2 analogies.

[@namelesssomebody2557]

Young Jedi Knights: Diversity Alliance.... the Diversity Alliance is basicly current year Lucasfilm😅

[@captain-chair]

Shallow support for social issues is not woke. But Andor is the most "woke" show to have ever been produced by the Disney company. And I love it. Viva la revolution my friend.

[@gups4963]

You said it yourself "influenced by contemporary politics", not pushing them and stirring up a divide intentionally. Always this disingenuous nonsense. ROTS just proves idiots voting wont end well

[@CoreysDatapad]

What does "pushing" them mean? Is having villains named after Republicans "pushing" your viewpoint less than whatever you're talking about? What's the actual thing you think is being pushed and how is it being pushed?

[@gups4963]

​@@CoreysDatapad "the force is female", a special hatred of an X'd out Luke Skywalker. A mary sue problem, repeatedly. Are you seriously contending LF hasn't split the fanbase intentionally stirring up that divide. Starting with Finn and claims people were racists. When it was normies who thought he was supposed to be a clone. Or the "fandom menace" people were. When in reality, and Boyega knows this now thank god, they thought ( and me too) that in TFA he was used to draw in people to see Finn be a force user. The character had more potential and they did nothing with it but Muh queened him. OB1 was pushing diversity to such an extent it wasn't about him. Shall we go into the 3rd wave strong female destruction of Indiana Jones. Will you seriously pretend that isn't all over Disney wars? KK has been open about targeting new female fans. Sadly for her they just aren't interested and the ones that were, were already fans. Confirmation bias is running you, At minimum have an opposing voice for this type of vid. SW is on life support, you threw half the fanbase under the bus to support these people who wanted the divide. Hope you enjoy the rewards of a dead franchise. I will always appreciate the work you have done, but this video is a cowards way out of an actual debate

[@stargatecommand714]

​@@gups4963 Take your toxicity elsewhere

[@gups4963]

@@stargatecommand714 Take your tourism elsewhere lol, you got it Hammond?

[@stargatecommand714]

@@gups4963 lmao cry about "the woke" some more

[@AKJames762]

I have never had an issue with IN UNIVERSE politics of Star Wars. I have a problem with REAL WORLD/EARTH politics being shoehorned into Star Wars.

[@CoreysDatapad]

Hey guess what the video talks about! These are all real-world issues being commented on by the prequels. That is the sole topic of the video.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Bro all art is influenced by the real world to a degree. The in-universe politics of Star Wars were used by Lucas are an allegory for the real world. Palpatine was a Nixon/Bush allegory. Nute Gunray was based off Nute Gingrich. Valorum was supposed to represent Bill Clinton.

[@Spartacus547]

What's the point of this video? And talking about a movie that's been out for almost 20 years ? So far you've spent more than half this video talking about how George Lucas's prequel movies are political and your point is? How does this connect to today? and You and you never make a point

[@ProfessionalBadPerson]

It’s a dig at Star Wars fans who think having black women in the movie makes it political and that the old movies were not political at all 😊

[@christianfaux736]

Are you stupid? The video is an explicit criticism of the comment comment that "old star wars wasn't political." It's a clear demonstration that the old movies were.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

@@ProfessionalBadPerson I find it interesting they have no problem with non white characters in older stuff and entertainment and some of the themes in them. I tells me the people who complain about that stuff's problem isn't "woke and political." As everything has a degree of influence from the real world.

[@gups4963]

@@ProfessionalBadPerson it's about a show about OB1 being about someone else, but keep lying. LF literally told the actress who played Reva before anything had happened. Then uses random internet trolls to back it up, that happens with everything that is relatively well known from every angle you get bad comments. And they used that to paint anyone with an opinion they didn't like a racist.

[@gups4963]

@@ironinquisitor3656 It ultimately comes down to Kathleen Kennedy being divisive on purpose. As I mentioned to the the Pro guy above, it was an OB1 show where Ob1 wasn't the main character. The absolutely hysterical part is Corey and his supporters act like LF didn't applaud themselves for pushing political themes that split the fanbase. Then they cry because they can't get enough people to watch