The Pride Generation with Katie Herzog

My guest today is Katie Herzog. Katie is the host of the very funny "Blocked and Reported" Podcast along with Jesse Single. She is a great visual artist and was also a staff writer at "The Stranger" for many years.
In this episode, we talk about Katie's upbringing as a lesbian in a less than accepting environment. We also discuss the rapid rise in the salience of trans issues in the past couple of years, the element of social contagion, and the recent rise of Gen Z girls with gender dysphoria. We talk about the mission creep of gay rights organizations and the increasing salience of drag queens in the culture as well as the backlash against them. We discuss the concept of being non-binary and the difference between male and female sexuality. We also talk about pedophilia and so-called virtuous pedophiles. We discuss puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and gender reassignment surgery. Katie also gives advice to parents with gender dysphoric children. We go on to talk about trans women in sports and the so-called "Don't Say Gay" bill and much more.
Unfortunately, we faced some network issues during the time of recording, therefore we had to go with just audio for this episode. Despite the technical inconvenience, I hope you enjoy the episode as much as I did.
I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope you do too.
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[@ColemanHughesOfficial]

Glad you caught the show. Let me know what you think in the comments and I’ll reply as soon as I can. If you’re a regular listener and would like to show your support and gain access to exclusive talks with some incredible minds, check out the Coleman Unfiltered membership here: bit.ly/3B1GAlS

[@slider292]

I've followed Katie's work since she started at the Stranger here in Seattle; it's so satisfying to watch her get the recognition she deserves.

[@carterrennerfeldt1607]

this is hands down the best, most informed, most logical and rational trans discussion i've heard. let's hope there's a coming "contagion" of this type of treatment of the subject. hats off!

[@neilwiththereeldeel]

“Is killing a person moral -let’s have a discussion about it” 😂😂…having a discussion about something does not make it legitimate 👎👎

[@zimzob]

@@neilwiththereeldeel if the person in question performs unnecessary cosmetic surgery on children, or prescribes sterilizing hormones to healthy children, then yes, that’s a very legitimate discussion.

[@neilwiththereeldeel]

@@zimzob Right, but that's not a discussion, that is just the wrong thing to do; to perform unnecessary surgery. You are either male or female, man or woman. Nothing will change that, and especially if you're a kid, you should not be subject to such things. At all. But there is no discussion to be had about it.

[@ProkofNY]

This is my big frustration with this topic: the Karolinska Institute is one of the best medical universities in the world. The institute recommended that Sweden stop the medical transition of minors, acknowledging that the unexpected increment of girls identifying as trans remains unexplained and choosing a more cautious approach. Sweden is not in the midst of a toxic culture war, and to me it seems as if medical professionals there are not being swayed by politics/activist groups as they are here in the US. If we fully appreciate the notion that good science is by definition unbiased and apolitical, we should be paying close attention to what is happening in Scandinavia. The irony being that the advocacy groups claiming to be pro-trans are the very same groups also claiming that there is an unquestionable scientific consensus on all trans-related issues. They are the ones interfering with scientific inquiry and-of course-it is those who identify as trans who have the most at stake.

[@carterrennerfeldt1607]

@@ProkofNY Beautifully said. And I wholeheartedly agree. The scientific method is the best means we have of getting to the truth. It should be utterly free of political influence/corruption.

[@senbassador]

You can't even smoke weed until you're 21 (where it's legal), but we're supposed to let 12 take puberty blocker drugs. Something is off with this picture.

[@SkeletonModel91]

It is actually evil what pharmaceutical companies are doing.

[@dloesch]

"Something is off with this picture" - to put it mildly.

[@Matt-hq2ew]

Minors get prescribed drugs all the time. Doctors are the ones making these decisions with the help of the parents. The state should have no role in the process.

[@senbassador]

@@Matt-hq2ew what if the child is gay and the "doctor" recommends conversation therapy to cure the child's gayness? Would that not be the government's business either.

[@Astaghfirullah-10]

@@senbassador Conversation therapy is not the same as chopping someone dick

[@devin_3875]

I am feeling so very proud of you, Coleman, that you decided to further cover this issue after where you last left it with that Australian gender clinic person. I was afraid you’d been met with a rabid activist mob you didn’t expect - and basically chose to acquiesce to the demanded position with that gender doc - then be done with it. It’s obvious you’ve given some deep moral thought and consideration to the complexities, in this realm. You explored the accurate data with Katie - and did so with deep humanity. Thank you. I’m seeing moral courage here, sir.

[@navihehar]

Suggestion for you: I'd add time stamps for your long form interview videos

[@JediTony81]

Young adolescent girl: "Hey, I'm a lesbian." Peers: "Meh" Next day, Young adolescent girl: "Hey, I think I am trans." Peers: "oh wow, you are so brave! Tell me more."

[@dfwherbie8814]

Just change everything from “man and woman” to “male and female.” There, problem solved

[@hooligan9794]

This is exactly the problem.

[@caydenblue]

So gender dysphoria isn’t real?

[@hooligan9794]

You are not understanding the point being made. Many young gay people are being transitioned because being gay is just boring these days. Being Trans is the trendy thing now. Declarations of being Trans are met with love bombing and relentless positive reinforcement. People who change their mind are also often subject to abuse and derision by the online Trans cult.

[@hyacinna]

@@caydenblue it can manifest from sociological environment (as gender is socially constructed right? Its based on sex though), lgbtq postmodern ideology dismisses sociology/socially emergent phenomena and sees it as fake, by this logic gender dysphoria is fake

[@billyhu4205]

289% increase is actually closer to a quadrupling, not a tripling. 100% is a doubling 200% is a tripling 300% is a quadrupling

[@GeorgeSmiley77]

I'm permanently pissed at Mark Twain for his "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" line. Statistics are not inherently dishonest, they're just a bit tricky to comprehend, UNLESS one has been properly taught in school. And they can easily be abused by using disparate figures for related things, which the news media does all the time, often (I imagine) not even realizing they're being abusive to their own readers.

[@johnstewart7025]

Ideology comes before expertise. Very well said.

[@jamesdrake4271]

I don’t understand what this means? Can you help explain it?

[@junipershull23skidoo]

@@jamesdrake4271 "believing" the right thing is more important than actual skills or knowledge....

[@jamesdrake4271]

@@junipershull23skidoo sounds like some bs based in delusion

[@caydenblue]

@@junipershull23skidoo This is what Katie does as well tho. She says kids shouldn’t have puberty blockers, but she isn’t a medical professional. She should let medical professionals make these kinds of decisions

[@neilolson3220]

Great interview. If the surge of people were the result of increased social tolerance would we not see a surge in adults as well as kids?

[@dawnemile4974]

This is the only question that should asked about this topic.

[@johnheart6890]

Brilliant. I never thought of that. It is quite a question to ask.

[@davegold]

This argument actually is stronger the other way. If the surge of people was due to something intrinsic (within the body or within the self) then we would see it in all generations. Social influences and social tolerance vary across generations. Puberty is also an obvious difference between adults and with kids.

[@caydenblue]

Well I mean kids are more accepting in general then adults in this day. Why would u wanna transition if you work with a bunch of old conservative minded people, even the older liberals mostly tend to not really understand transgenderism, being a transgender kid or teen would simply be easier and offer a larger option of possible friends then coming out as an adult would

[@aden5148]

Intro so loud, mic so quiet. Love your episodes but please look into that - not all machines equalise sound

[@CovocNexus]

One thing I'd wish liberals would stop stating that gay marriage is settled. It was a Supreme Court decision. The people did not vote that way. It'd be like saying the question of secession is settled because a supreme court ruled is was illegal. A court's ruling is not defining unless the populace agrees with it. You may argue that more people support it based on Pew polls, but don't be surprised if you see a movement to return the issue to states.

[@hooligan9794]

It's settled to a fair extent because very few people give a crap about it at this point.

[@susanreimers8209]

SCOTUS didn't create anything new in the same-sex marriage decision. The law was the fifth amendment of the Constitution. The Court found that the word "Liberty" in the law pointed to something important that can't be taken away from the People without Due Process... something fundamental that predates the Constitution. Something inalienable. This is called Substantive Due Process. The court found that people have a fundamental Liberty right to marry (enter into a life-long civic/legal partnership with another adult), and found no important government interest in limiting this right to opposite sex couples. The Constitution, the most foundational of all law, was the basis for this decision. Constitutionality is a concept that serves both liberals and conservatives alike.

[@evomorales666]

Wow. First full-length podcast I've heard from Coleman. He's my new fave!

[@oceantree5000]

Katie is absolutely marvelous! Obv Coleman is as well. What a wonderful discussion pairing.

[@KaliMaaaaa]

Marvelous? She believes there is such a thing as "transgender" there is not and there never has been. It is a man made concept and her failure to understand that shows how superficial her thinking is.

[@umultme]

Both suck

[@livinglife4835]

She lost me at "kiddie diddling". Call it what it is, child molestation.

[@TsukiNaito1]

I've loved listening to Coleman in interviews on other podcasts, but I came here for my Lesbian Queen Katie. 😂

[@RodneyDodson]

I loved your Bayard Rustin video. For many years i couldn’t find anyone who knew of him. He is so important.

[@HypnoticSuggestion]

Good conversation. But still it's very difficult to hear Coleman, I use a desktop setup so I just crank the volume up, wonder if he knows.

[@winstonsmith9424]

its remarkable how this still happens

[@whatarewedoingouthere]

Same issue here. Volume is too low.

[@angelabox1865]

Excellent discussion. But I do have a problem with the gay pride flag in the classroom to '....let gays know it is a safe space...." If children are taught to be courteous to EVERYONE ALL THE TIME, that is all that is necessary. The old fashioned Golden Rule works really well and then one does not need a 'sis' flag or a black flag or an asian flag, ad nauseam.

[@JasonCunliffe]

All Lives Matter .... No seriously 🎶

[@hollylawford-smith]

great conversation. huge katie fan. thanks to you both for having this conversation.

[@naivejeffersonian]

Coleman. Your mic is too quiet AGAIN. I know reading KZbin comments on your videos is a fool's errand, but many of us who are commenting it's too quiet are trying to help and support you.

[@naivejeffersonian]

@Scott Purcell Easy there, snarkmaster. You'll note that there were MANY posts saying the levels were fucked up from the handful of videos he put out around this time. I wasn't alone in my feedback for him, and subsequently, Coleman has sorted these issues out.

[@Vibez-o5k]

@10:10 Big sigh. Same. I grew up knowing dozens and dozens of lesbians. Half of them now identify as transgender men, are on testosterone, and have health problems.

[@Mercybeat74]

I really enjoyed this conversation. Honest straightforward communication is always fruitful.

[@tthompson9244]

I love 'Blocked and Reported'. Great rapport between Jesse and Katie.

[@lizsalazar8808]

I don’t like the idea of signaling to LGBTQ students that “this classroom is a safe space.” The classroom should be a safe space for all the students, I don’t see why we have to single them out, or give them some special recognition that is not given to the others. If we had a classroom full of gay kids and there was only a straight pride flag there, I wouldn’t see the need for that. Especially in younger kids classrooms where sexuality doesn’t need to be discussed. It seems like keeping it neutral is what’s most fair for everyone.

[@La0bouchere]

The idea of safe spaces doesn't come from them being a minority. It's so they know they don't have to be scared of people freaking out if they find out that they aren't straight. It does get stupid with some of the extremist on the left, but there is some actual reason to have them.

[@ashdav9980]

@@La0bouchere No, there really isn’t. As someone who worked in public schools….there are extensive bully policies in every school….trans students and any issues they encounter can be handled under bully protocols……just like they are with other students. When regular education kids target and mistreat another kid with an intellectual disability (mental retardation) they handle it under bullying….no special “safe spaces”, etc. plus, many students from a young age are introduced to “good school citizen” rules which follow along the golden rule. This is really NOT that complicated….trans kids don’t need to be singled out as needing special and elevated attention. Trust me, kids pick up on whom has favored status and is “untouchable” above others, the consequences of this will likely make trans people less liked/accepted (only the children won’t voice it out of fear)……but they will remember and carry it into adulthood. Keep pushing the special status for trans, and expect backlash at some point.

[@ebz1610]

@@La0bouchere the gay pride flag no longer means what it meant ten years ago. Seeing a flag used to mean "gay people are here" Then it evolved to mean "allies are here" Now it means " in this space we honor pronouns, gender identity, and we won't tell your mom weve switched your pronouns if you think you'll get in trouble" In the case of gay, there is no dilemma for a teacher. In the case of a trans student there is a big issue: you must use a child's desired pronouns even if the parents forbid it. So, if a student sees a trans inclusive flag it means something very different than with the original gay pride flag. There is a huge push in the schools to focus on social-emotional learning. Not supporting trans students is viewed as a violation of the principles taught in education school: that children need to feel safe in order to learn.

[@Theyungcity23]

@@ashdav9980 Extensive bully protocols sounds ridiculous. Have you ever been bullied or seen kids get bullied. There's no bureaucratic protocol from the school that can meaningfully engage with that. I saw a bunch of kids about 20 literally curb stomp a girl of school grounds because she was weird and most likely somewhere on the spectrum. What would these bully protocols swoop down like Superman and stop them from attacking her? I had a group of students drive by and yell slurs at me. What are the bully protocols going to scan their license plates and ids and follow up? What a bizarre response to people trying to give more emotional support to students in a world where they are killing themselves and others because they feel completely alone.

[@kevinboone2178]

Hum. Classrooms as "neutral" spaces is a concept that has emboldened leaders like the Texas governor to pass laws requiring the state's educators to show "both sides" of American Slavery and the Jewish Holocaust, for example. Numerous closeted and "out" LGBTQ students, and ones perceived to be, daily experience bullying (verbal abuse and physical attacks), sit in silence while "no homo" expressions, jokes, and other seemingly benign behaviors are committed at their expense. Your statement, I don’t like the idea of signaling to LGBTQ students that "this classroom is a safe space," is a costly one; maybe that sentiment best fits home-schooled children. I used to teach high schoolers and (most) of THOSE PEOPLE knew better than to interject personal attacks, including ones of a sexual, ethnic, racial and religious nature into my airspace, as there was hell to pay; the few who tried paid. With due respect.

[@boblozaintherealworld3577]

Katie is smart and articulate and always an interesting listen. Also immediately likable. I'm an unconfused straight man, and Katie is an unconfused woman lesbian. Maybe I'm old-school, but that's just ONE of the reasons I like and supporter her.

[@geoffreybrockmeier9218]

48:48 - He mentioned the subreddit /r/detrans. I learned about this subreddit from an /r/AskReddit question, "What subreddit were you shocked to find exists?" Someone replied with /r/detrans and oh wow, the hatred I read in response. All the usual accusations of "hatred, bigotry, phobia, blah blah blah..." Here's what I find odd: If I were to say, "I'm non-binary because some days I feel like a boy, somedays I feel more like a girl..." People applaud and say what a brave and progressive soul I am. But if I say, "I was born male and used to feel like a girl but now I don't so I'm a man now..." Suddenly I'm a bigot and transphobe?? Why are a person's feelings about their gender valid and worthy of celebration one moment but evil and worthy of condemnation the next? One word: REGRET. Regret means a mistake was made. This is contradictory to the ideology. And with people of this mindset it is ideology, not truth, that matters. This whole thing is such obvious madness. It is as insane as saying 2+2=5. It's just a bridge too far in the Left's progressive psychosis. There has to come a point where reality is not about feelings and emotions. Your mind understands reality, it does not create it.

[@WildHeartWomanPublishing-xw4wc]

@39:40 I was just about to say that people who abuse children are often doing it not out of attraction but getting off on hurting someone … it isn’t an attraction it’s harm and hurt and taking something that turns them on. I have a huge problem with saying it’s attraction on most of them, most of them are doing it out of power and that always needs to be stated alongside any conversation around the few who may feel this out of so called attraction.

[@RenegadeContext]

If it was just attraction they would just not act on it. There are more layers to it. In acting on the "attraction" they know this human can't consent, they aren't mature enough to understand what is happening. There's power in that, and sex offenders often get off on the power aspect of the act

[@EmilyMoyer]

Unfortunately the volume is so low on this video that it was very difficult for us to listen to it. The conversation was great though.

[@Wook14]

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[@Wook14]

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[@Wook14]

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[@Wook14]

9899

[@Wook14]

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[@ridesharegold6659]

33:26 even in this conversation there seems to be some confusion/conflation between sex and gender. Katie recognizing that she's female doesn't mean that she might have more masculine or feminine personality traits. When she and Andrew Sullivan were on Bill Maher, it may have been Andrew who was saying that when he was a kid he would have been called a Nancy boy and maybe Katie would have been called a tomboy and she nodded in agreement with that. In this day and age it's really hard to find a person who cares about that. I think what most people get upset about is the constant conflation of sex with gender. Just because your gender expression is more masculine doesn't mean that you are really a male. I know Katie gets this because I've heard her say it before I just wish that we could find a language to use and stick to it and not be corrupted by the language of the trans activists.

[@sageoverheaven]

I want to listen intently, I really do, but the audio is set so painfully low.

[@baigandinel7956]

Would human kind ever have reproduced in the requied numbers to still exist today if it could not easily have distinguished between male and female?

[@eemoogee160]

Yeah, we'd keep putting things in holes until a baby came out.

[@kevinboone2178]

Red herrings conferring sarcasm are best.

[@conradblack779]

Even they knew what a woman was seems millennia later people have become blinded to that fact

[@ricodelavega4511]

christ i love katie. disappointing there was no video of her.

[@DJJonPattrsn22]

These are some exceptionally "prickly" (contentious, confusing, complicated, convoluted, controversial, etc....) topics. Regardless of what perspectives & experiences either of you have in regards to these subjects, I applaud you for having this discussion and for at least being honest & sincere (or very good actors/liars!). I've never been able to fully buy into the "born that way" ideology for myself, and for the vast majority of those with a non-straight sexual "orientation". But I understand why it came about (if that's true then Christianity (and most other religions) can not justly assert that it is wrong or sinful to have such an orientation; although actually living that "lifestyle" (having a sexual partner) may not be protected...); and I do believe that it at least could be true this some people. I apprehension on this concept has been "explained" by the truly bizarre & seemingly inexplicable spike in trans particularly natal females, as well as non straight sexual identities and non binary gender identities. However, not being "born that way" does not suddenly make any of these things the result/outcome of a choice made by the individual. I have become convinced that there are a multitude of factors involved, different sets & combinations of those factors for each individual; and some of those factors are/will be very upsetting to certain people and they would undoubtedly staunchly deny such claims. (I'm referring to the now wildly unpopular ideas like "distant/absent father", "overbearing mother", "childhood sexual trauma" as potential contributing factors of homosexuality). The key words are "potential" & "contributing"! anyway... I think that in order to have any hope of actually gaining and real or meaningful understanding of these topics we need to closely examine what little scraps remain in terms of historic examples of anything that may resemble these topics in the past from other cultures. This is no easy task, but much can be learned even from what we do have. I think that the most important thing that we can learn is that: 1. Until the late 19th or early 20th century all of these topics manifested as behaviors NOT identities! It is the transfer from behavior to identity that is somehow a catalyst for problems. And the obvious reason for that seems to be that it is actually a much more accurate reflection of reality to understand these things as behaviors. And creating an identity based on behavior is inherently flawed and prone to creating complications & problems.

[@catsandcrows8880]

Thank you, you've expressed much of what I've been thinking, but in a clear and well written comment.

[@hamm0155]

“God hates flags”! I assume that’s a joke that has been around or Herzog has used before but that’s a good one!

[@adamstephens9043]

That point about confusion! If a gay man identifies as straight, he'd be misidentified. If a trans man identifies as a cis woman, she would *be* a cis woman. It comes down to the question, "How do you know?" What if you're wrong?

[@ryanhead2004]

I’d be curious if Katie, who just said drag is adult themed and sexualized and is appalled that DeSantis would take CPS action against parents who take their kids to drag shoes, would she also be appalled if those parents gave their 7yo a p*rn DVD?

[@RenegadeContext]

Drag is adult but it's not porn. They're hardly comparible

[@CatAtomic99]

Gotta turn up the volume on your mic. The difference in volumes makes it hard to listen to.

[@Liisa3139]

Why don't you fix your volume problem? You are barely audible. You have been notified many many times on this, but no improvement has happened.

[@killa3x]

I like trans, feminist and gay issues cuz it results in a lefty battle royal. May the strongest inherit the kingdom!!!

[@em3sis]

Ouroboros vibes fr

[@TheLosrodri]

Meh

[@willisverynice]

I’d rather people didn’t fight about nonsense but then again, I don’t view sociology or politics as a football rivalry.

[@em3sis]

@@willisverynice They dont understand that it's nonsense.

[@willisverynice]

@@em3sis yea, that’s why they argue about it. The right has its own nonsense and infighting as well, and all of the nonsense from both sides distracts from anything useful getting addressed.

[@yvonnelee4385]

Shoulda kept the uhhhs in the intro 😂

[@randygault4564]

Thanks

[@thierryf2789]

I agree with most of what has been said. However, you cannot just say « there are other ways » unless you describe what these other ways are. Also, you cannot describe something as harmful to children and then state that it is a parental right to harm your children in the way you have just described. After all, there are many ways that parents can harm their children that are illegal.

[@neilwiththereeldeel]

also, you cannot describe something like sex as non-binary and then expect to have any ideas of objective reality at all...but that is what so many people do, and it is backed at higher institutions 😁😁🙄🙄

[@TheKentuckyNightmare]

It's all well and good to have this visual presentation for these video clips, but if I can't hear both voices at equal volume, and preferably a loud volume, it's misspent energy.

[@taylorsharp5928]

volume is very low m8

[@JBondiProductions]

Great discussion

[@david8905]

The phrase "trans-phobic" keeps being thrown around these days as if it is about something that is a given, that it is real. I am not 'trans-phobic', because I do not fear so-called trans people. I do not know anyone who is transphobic. What I do have is concerns about what is behind all the activism that is taking place in the West. Many people I know, from both sides of the aisle are concerned as well. Who is bankrolling the dismantling of America? What is their motivation? Huma rights or something more of a selfish nature? Do these activists that are being used understand the damage, murder, and mayhem that Marxism/communism has committed in the last century? I don't believe that they do. They think their revolution is pure and morally superior. This is what the concerns are about, not trans people, or trans rights, but tyranny leading to eventual slavery by the globalist elite.

[@neilwiththereeldeel]

thing is, given the touchy-feely culture we live in and the smugness about liberals who only want to bash Republicans as if they are still the only problem, this trans nonsense and whatever other movement that is even UN-SCIENTIFIC, the West is going down the shitter for absolutely no rational reason besides irrationality, and even wrongness. The unscientific nature of this is something liberals should get behind (but they only like criticizing science when it's what the Republicans don't believe in -- and many think the trans crap is on the side of science 😁😁 -- and they still make fun of people for...stuff 😁😁) but they are driven by emotion and pretend to be driven by logic...and bash Republicans for being that same thing. Republicans only play the far right game to win elections; woke liberals BELIEVE the nonsense they say 🙄🙄

[@eemoogee160]

Capitalism is a system of tyranny based on slavery.

[@neilwiththereeldeel]

@@eemoogee160 ?????

[@QuesoGr7]

She's really cool

[@IChooseAHandle]

Coleman your supporter page is still broken. I can't access this video or the last ep there

[@RunBayou]

Volume needs some work

[@JimSky]

Genuine LOL on the stolen flag joke.

[@hollylawford-smith]

agreed! best moment.

[@selfcaresally]

To me the unifying theme of recent trends in youth mental health issues is external pressure for children and young people to conform to some specific identity that may differ greatly from whatever their actual individual needs and preferences may be. It can be as “benign” as pressuring a kid to have a specific profession when they are really more suited for another one. Determining someone else’s role for them and denying them agency doesn’t always look like abuse but it is frequently experienced that way. With gender the pressure often starts before birth with things like gender reveal parties and how the nursery is decorated. This was not that big a deal when I was born, and it wasn’t a deal at all before ultrasounds and genetic testing could tell people what the baby’s gender would be. All of the buildup and intensity around gender and parenting has created an enormous amount of pressure on young people. Obviously there were different issues around children and status and parenting in the past, too, but this hyper-fixation on children by society is very new.

[@mikealexander1935]

Of course, there is a difference between sexuality and gender identity. Sexuality is a real thing, there is ample historical evidence of the existence of non-hetero sexualities. It's in the Bible for crying out loud. As for the idea of gender identities, the modern concept of gender did a not exist a century ago, which I verified by looking up gender in my 1941 World Book encyclopedia--it just talks about the grammatical concept of gender. Now gender identity (e.g. she-males) can be seen as a behavioral response to societal condemnation of homosexuality. And I see no reason why this should have changed.

[@Xaeravoq]

mushrooms can be the push you need!

[@jamesbarton1969]

Girls have always been encouraged to discuss their feelings, far more than boys. Does this make them them more susceptible to peer influence?

[@jamesbarton1969]

@@WinstonSmithGPT I may be older but boys almost never discussed fealings with their friends, girls talked about their feelings with their friends all the time. This is what I mean by encouraged, they and their friends expected it.

[@jamesbarton1969]

@@WinstonSmithGPT you could be right, you could be wrong. Males hunted, this required quietness, females gathered food together and did other tasks that did not require silence. Males who didn't protect the females did not see their group do well, males who did saw their groups do better. Male and females have different genes that affect behavior.

[@davidkaiser]

The late Nancy Friday was one of the most brilliant women who ever lived. She thought women tended more to seek symbiosis--with their mother, with friends, with lovers. That could make them more susceptible to peer pressure on the average. (OF COURSE there are exceptions.)

[@jamesbarton1969]

@@davidkaiser thanks, I will have to look her up.

[@ChillingTales12]

Eww feelings

[@dawnemile4974]

Someone may have a natural tendency to cruelty but they have to control themselves. It is just not loving so there's your answer. Don't do anything that harms others just to please yourselves. I have no sympathy at all for pedophiles because it harms others.

[@matham625]

you canot cut and paste into youtube.. i am dyslexic.. they have stopped me from expressing myself.. it had really effed me up

[@Zidana123]

1: highlight the text you want to copy 2: press ctrl-c 3: click in the text box you want to paste into 4: press ctrl-p granted, if you are phonepostan or on Apple computer this probably doesn't help you :x

[@matham625]

@@Zidana123 cheers but its more than that, normally I need to write into word and cut and paste into other text boxes. however when doing this on youtube (uniquely) it has started causing problems (for about three months now) it will not accept my comments.. various notices come up..it changes the text... what ever.. thiey think I am a bot or troll and do not understand people with some problems need to do this. its very upsetting when you write and can only use 30% of your normal words.. it makes you sound stupid.. but thanks for the advice.. I am looking into doing something about this.

[@Zidana123]

@@matham625 What browser are you using? Have you tried a different browser, and if you have, does the same problem appear in other browsers?

[@matham625]

@@Zidana123 thanks I will try and change that, I am using firefox but will try chrome.. cheers

[@annagordon445]

I think it's worth it to have a separate league for intersex and trans people whose bodies may have some of the advantages of a male body, and some of the disadvantages of a female body in sports. Yes, the leagues may be small, but we make similar small leagues and competitions for people with disabilities. While most people have either a physiologically male or female body, there is still a significant minority of people in our society with bodies that are somewhat in between the two, whether they were born with a hormonal abnormality or they are transgender, and as a society, this is probably the best way to include those people in sports without compromising female sports.

[@RenegadeContext]

Trans activists would like us to believe that intersex people are in teh same catagory but the truth is the vast majority of the very very small number of intersex people are either male or female both physically and presenting, they just above extra health issues because the have an extra chromosome. Very few intersex people are ambiguous in their gender and presentation

[@UREMODEL]

I've been looking at more of Katie's presents on KZbin. It seems more and more clear that she doesn't do her own research. Definately not a thought leader. More a thought follower. Just my opinion.

[@homewall744]

Gender expression is entirely social. Just look at how people dressed 200 years ago, or check out how people dress in other non-western nations.

[@kevinboone2178]

Stated differently: Gender is a social construct. In some pre-colonial African ethnic groups women were reared to be warriors, for example.

[@pwabd2784]

Pantyhose and heels used to be for men.

[@rogerward801]

You're only addressing clothing not people wanting to change their bodies thru drugs and/or surgery

[@spurge83]

Katie says that men who oppose transgenderism owe feminists a debt of gratitude. Even though feminism gave rise to trans in the first place. And as if a man would need to know any feminists whatsoever to oppose transgenderism.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

Coleman should channel his inner Ron Swanson more often.

[@catherinehume9193]

I had gender dysphoria for 25 years. I am glad I went to my church and lgbt Bible study groups rather than a doctor. I got elders who were ex trans. Men who had had hormones and lived as women for years and detransitioned. This was 20 years ago. I am bisexual but being bisexual doesn’t make me want to self harm, whereas dysphoria did. There is a massive blind spot, very obvious blind spot with Katie and the lgb alliance - who I like - and other gay and bisexual people who say no one is born trans, it’s a psychological or emotional issue, but we are born gay. When twice as many gay people have been sexually abused in childhood than heterosexual people, it’s a bit of a clue that we are not born lgb. Lgb people have higher levels of autism, bullying on school, lack of same sex friends in childhood, a parent with a serious mental health condition or an absent same sex parent. The evidence has been there for 40 years including a study out at the end of 2020 that left wing uk journalist Owen Jones acknowledged and did a full page article in The Guardian about. Katie’s story of not realising she was gay until she went to university and her wife not knowing she was gay until she went to a city sounds like social contagion. They had to be around gay people to know that they were gay in adulthood. Puberty and sexuality kicks in in the teens or pre teens. People who are gay know we are gay much earlier than adulthood. So this blind spot with lgb people who say people are not born trans, social contagion etc need to have a serious think. And yes, I do know many homosexual people who had counselling for having been sexually abused in childhood, their odd relationships with their parents, and a by product of the counselling was they became bisexual or heterosexual. We all know people who change sexual orientation in adulthood. We all know it happens, but “conversion therapy” doesn’t work. Lots of blind spots. We are not born lgbt. It’s no biggie. I wasn’t born speaking 4 languages but it is something that developed because of my environment mixing with my genetics. Just like being lgbt. It’s no biggie, it doesn’t mean we are second class citizens. Everyone is affected by life in different ways. We just need to be honest about it and get any help we need.

[@LouisGedo]

Hello all you lovely truth seekers 👋

[@Xaeravoq]

where do we draw the line? steroids are banned because of unfair advantages etc. same argument but good sleeping and eating habits are also unfair to those who did not have it. i never heard a good argument for where to draw the line.

[@Zidana123]

I've not considered this one before but I'm gonna take a shot at it cause it's an interesting to think about I guess of those examples you gave, good sleeping and eating habits are like a first-order effect on the fitness of the body, like good sleep enables your body to produce hormones internally, and those control the building of tissue for which good eating habits provide materials steroids are more of like a second-order effect, because the hormones are synthesized outside the body and put into it But then you know... as I think about it more... when you eat steak you are also receiving like beef testosterone through your meal--that's also been synthesized outside the body and then put into it :x Thanks for introducing this topic to me! it's actually quite confounding and I'm gonna think about it some more :D

[@luminous3558]

@@Zidana123 To add a bit onto this. While one might say that eating healthy and sleeping well are something we should naturally be doing to take care of our body there is still a monetary aspect to it. Good food can be pricy and it generally comes with a diet plan and coach when we are talking about sports competition. Then add in the free time required to train which naturally expects a big amount of financial freedom. Add in access to good doctors and staff and its even more exclusive. So someone trying to get into any sort of competition without preexisting capital is gonna have a real rough time vs those who are backed by strong systems and money. I'd say steroids are banned to remove the ugly connotation from the whole topic. Taking drugs for a temporary advantage with health risks just isn't good PR. You want athletes to be marketable to both men and women and steroids are a turn off in that case. Men know they won't be able to look like the athlete and women won't be as attracted to someone who is abusing substances at the cost of his health and potence.

[@dougwadsworth3138]

From what I understand from psychology, there is actually a lot of malleability around the arousal template. So in someways conversion therapy can really work, you can condition people to be aroused by totally bizarre things using psychological conditioning. From your discussion it sounds like you’re not aware of this.

[@scotthullinger4684]

Did I hear you right? Did you actually say "virtuous pedophiles?" OMG -

[@paulhester489]

Still trying to find out why Coleman was riding subway train in his underwear?

[@bw126]

It feels like forever since the dreaded algorithm recommended me something good. Guess a broken clock blah blah blah

[@matham625]

are my comments blocked?

[@slider292]

nah

[@eemoogee160]

Not this particular one. Many comments are hidden these days

[@dfwherbie8814]

Just change everything from “man and woman” to “male and female.” There, problem solved

[@macibranch6901]

All of these conversations, including this one, come across as navel gazing. Everyone says there’s no right or wrong way to be a [insert gender here]. There is a tendency to over diagnose kids with mental illness. How is the trans thing, different from ADHD or autism? Is this a trans problem or a psychology problem? Why do activists with political and financial incentive take precedent over individuals? I transitioned at 20, but I prefer girls, and my hobbies are video games and skateboarding. Most of the trans women I know are this way, and are right beside Coleman and Katie saying there is no right or wrong way to be a girl. How is this a dialectic? Where is the disagreement? Most of the trans people I know don’t have kids, why are we asking them their opinions on raising kids?

[@catherinehume9193]

It is navel gazing. I was trans for 25 years or had dysphoria for 25 years and am bi. I’m watching this while thinking about how sad this is, and all political discourse and social commentary are. It’s the same issues and the same ideas over and over. They tend to focus on the negative. I’m not watching the news at the moment and am reaching for my Bible and good fiction or informative books at the moment. I find all of this so narrow. People are much more than these things. There’s much more to life 💜

[@rogerward801]

Was your transition thru drugs/and or surgery or simply calling yourself a different gender? I grew up with tomboys and sissies. Some stayed that way, some become more masculine or feminine. But they never called themselves the opposite sex. It seems that some are very obsessed with their appearance to make it opposite of their natural appearance

[@hooligan9794]

3 year old don't know anything about their bodies, even their own minds largely. They say odd things all the time. Zero weight should be given to the pronouncements of 3 year olds on this kind of thing.

[@asiastormy8728]

God Hate Flags!! hahahahahah

[@KR-jq3mj]

How many political organisations have flags? All or nothing, I guess all wouldn't leave space on the wall for much more useful and aesthetically pleasing....So nothing seems best.

[@ptfd03]

This was the plan from the start. Check out the book After the Ball written in 1989 which outlined the "gay agenda"

[@bettinabarr9107]

Wow. That’s actually kinda homophobic not gonna lie….

[@ptfd03]

@@bettinabarr9107 LMAO, I stated a fact. Your issue deal with it.

[@bettinabarr9107]

@@ptfd03 broh that’s a pro gay rights book and you’re quoting it lol.

[@jmac3327]

Listen carefully to both of them--Stalinists to the core.

[@pistillateflower476]

You lost me both at MAP sympathy. My goddess! Wake up more! Porn is creating more monsters! This is not hardwired! Wtf!?

[@CalumJJohnston]

"it is not hardwired because I want it to be a choice so I can moralize about it" - you

[@jamesdrake4271]

Yo straight white male here I really wanted to give this convo a listen to because it seemed like it was centered around a lot of topics I don’t know anything about BUT the pedophilic joke in the beginning really through me for a loop I don’t know you guys that well at all but even from some of the worse people on the internet they don’t even joke about that stuff lightly. Only stayed on the video long enough to type this comment lost all interest pretty much.

[@catherinehume9193]

Yep, I was pretty surprised by that cos I’ve heard Coleman Hughes on other people’s podcasts as well as his own and he is a nice guy from what I can make out. I got this podcast from a search of Katie herzog because I’ve heard of her and wanted to know more about her. So I’ll give another podcast a go and see what I think. But yes, the paedo jokes have gone on through this podcast and are a let down. Something so damaging to people’s lives. It throws abuse back in the face of survivors. I’m going to give another podcast a go and hope this was a one off 💜

[@dougwadsworth3138]

What about a Christian cross in a classroom, to show Christian students they are in a safe zone? Could a pride flag make religious kids feel they arent in a safe place? I think: no pride flags, no religion. Include everyone, or exclude everything.

[@catherinehume9193]

I’m Christian an bi. Christians face A LOT of hate from lgbt people and have done for about 20 years in my experience. Even me who is gay. Not just one or two incidents, but many, including threats of violence, being surrounded by around 30 people, but lots of regular harassment. Lots. So you have raised a valid point. I’m a private teacher. I teach adults and children from around the world. I have no flags or crosses or whatever on show. If an adult or child wants to express their beliefs, I’m totally fine with that. Most of my clients are Muslim and I’ve got a lot of Muslim friends so I know a lot about Islam. One guy even quizzed me on Islam before he took lessons with me 😂 I am there for my students, not the other way around.

[@haraldwolte3745]

I love Coleman's show. But I disagree with him about a lot. This interview showed the core disagreement I have with him. In this interview, he and Katie seem unaware that their own liberal ideas are just the natural precursor to the insanity that we see today. There is no "pause" button that can halt the degeneration at where it was in 1995.

[@bettinabarr9107]

I assume you think gay marriage is an example of this “degeneration”?

[@jamesdrake4271]

I agree these people don’t realize that society has actually become so much better compared to previous decades that they now have the freedom and time to worry about these “issues” they are consumed with. They need to realize America doesn’t care about these issues is because they are still such a minority that most Americans don’t even know or come into contact with lgbqt individuals so why should they be expected to invest time or energy into any of this. Sounds harsh but it’s true you expect to much from strangers.

[@bettinabarr9107]

@@jamesdrake4271 Pretty spot on imo. One of the bigger ironies is I think most genuinely gender dysphoric people just want to pass as the gender they’re most comfortable with and not draw attention to it. The activists are putting them in the spotlight which I’m sure some enjoy or appreciate, but they by no means speak for the trans community at large. I frankly hate to say it but I think a lot of this non binary, gender fluid, “trans” outside of diagnosed gender dysphoria is similar to goth, punk, emo, etc. More of an aesthetic that you adopt as part of your identity, but not a diagnosed condition.

[@slider292]

This is basically a "slippery slope" argument, which are rarely compelling.

[@bettinabarr9107]

@@slider292 I assume you’re referring to the original comment in which case I agree.

[@matham625]

hi, one little factor I have noticed: in the USA traditionally being a "***************y0utub3 censorred" is you being an absolute dangerous sinner to others.. whereas being incorrectly gender defined, is a tragic sin that has wrongly been done unto you at birth when you were at your most vulnerable.. the ultimate victim as compared to the ultimate perpetrator. And notice the belief systems of the USA..goodies Vs baddies: in a more laid back& intelligent environment its all utterly irrelevant.. what you? .. do what you like, be what you like: choose what you like.. but just don’t expect us to agree. End of..have a look at Holland.

[@DisposableSupervillainHenchman]

I got a headache trying to decipher your comment.

[@matham625]

@@DisposableSupervillainHenchman yes I am having some problems leaving comments on youtube, dont know why, I think it is because I need to cut and paste things due to being dyslexic.. so yesterday I was just tryig to experiment... I keep leaving comments, but they do not show up on the threads.. I think they think I am a troll. my point was: it is easier emotionally for people living within a simplified conservative culture to say to themselves (& others) there has been a mistake by science regarding their gender (I am not x and I am Y) than to "come out" that they are homosexual. which is still considered socially wrong & "sinfull"

[@blue-mo1ge]

Pretty sure she’s not a visual artist but there IS a visual artist of the same name that’s definitely not her.

[@robleahy5759]

And they are both laughably bad at what they do.

[@cherd5343]

I'm not overly sensitive to language, and often push back against political correctness. However, there is still something off-putting about Katie referring to herself as a Dike. Is it just me?

[@davidkaiser]

It doesn't bother me at all.

[@livinglife4835]

Her calling child molestation as "kiddie diddling", is a serious not addressing pedophile.

[@rogerward801]

Basically just a Tomboy that likes women

[@heilamessy]

pride? nothing to be proud for.

[@bettinabarr9107]

Oh hey troll

[@jeremywilliams3465]

Proud of History, Walking authentically

[@heilamessy]

@@jeremywilliams3465 what history?

[@bettinabarr9107]

@@heilamessy Ok, I kind of agree. By that notion christians have nothing to be proud of and white people have nothing to be proud of. Being “proud” of something you didn’t accomplish is kind of ridiculous.

[@eemoogee160]

@@heilamessy history of horrific oppression, long struggle, and eventually sociopolitical victories.

[@mcratsix]

Love this conversation. I’m on a Clinical Psychology doctorate programme and this conversation is so badly needed in the profession, but is absolutely impossible to have

[@slider292]

Oof. Best of luck with that...

[@carolinem1698]

Keep trying.

[@7troyfreund]

What has happened to our society? Honest discussions about any nuanced topic are becoming less and less frequent it seems. Are the social shaming and the overly irrational and emotional responses to any dissenting voice being repeatedly encouraged by social media? I’m very impressed with these people tackling this topic.

[@Rorshacked]

Finished my psyd a few years ago and found that getting into Jon haidt and Steve pinker were helpful to combat the myopic nonsense I was taught/not allowed to question. And critical therapy antidote has some good resources too. Hope that helps, good luck!

[@3000MrGian]

@@7troyfreund helicopter parents, progressive policies, and social media has made everyone to sensitive and actually close minded.

[@mikealexander1935]

This seems to an expression of the idea that the transgender movement is a conservative backlash against feminism, which is something I have thought for several years.

[@roushanam]

SRS as conversion therapy. The Iranian model.

[@zimzob]

It really is.

[@conradblack779]

The problem with transitioning is that it doesn’t actually solve anything the person is still the opposite sex to which they claim to be. No amount of hormones surgery or pretending will ever change that fact. Surely we should be coming up with a treatment that helps these people come to terms with the reality of their situation and the impossibility of having feelings of being the opposite sex since they have never been that sex to know how it feels. Would it not be better to be able to treat these people to lead normal live in their actual biological sex

[@davegold]

Until that happens, transitioning may be the best treatment available and if it has a high success rate (in making lives better) it should continue.

[@conradblack779]

@@davegold transitioning isn’t a treatment you are not actually treating anything it’s biologically impossible to be the opposite sex to which you are, the only treatment is to reconcile your mind with your actual sex anything else is delusional, when society then tries to retcon our understanding of sex and gender to pander to people with mental health problems it’s never going to end well, the amount of people now coming out and detransitioning is shocking these people were coerced by healthcare professionals into permanently mutilating their bodies only to realise years later they were simply suffering from delusions but they cannot reverse anything. In 10-15 years the amount of lawsuits that doctors are going to get for providing surgeries and hormone treatments to people who were suffering mental health problems is going to be staggering

[@TsukiNaito1]

If someone's condition is really bad, full on transition might make sense, but when I hear about top and bottom surgeries I just wonder what was so bad about liking dresses and being called "she" and still having a dick? Is ol' Big Pharma convincing people with less severe dysphoria to pursue the most extreme treatments somehow?

[@rogerward801]

That's been my thinking as well. It's an attempt to make oneself appear to be the opposite sex but everyone knows they haven't actually changed there sex. Only their appearance.

[@ChillingTales12]

No shit Sherlock. I'm a trans and I'm aware of this.

[@cooperwesley1536]

"They/them" STILL confounds me. It literally makes no sense. As a society, we are at peak stoopid.

[@mademsoisellerhapsody]

One can only hope…

[@Matt-hq2ew]

So stOOpid, indeed.

[@luckystarship2275]

And for speakers of English as a Foreign Language even more so. My pronouns are Your Majesty/Her Royal Highness - in case anyone's asking.

[@DrVVVinK]

Grammerly app, even says it's not proper grammar. Go figure. People who prefer to be call they/them are egotistical.

[@vanillamarshmallow]

I’ve met a couple they/thems at college. They’re always female and always insufferable. It’s the zoomer version of ~not like other girls~

[@richarddoan9172]

Gotta work on that sound mix. Coleman's audio was lower than Katie's, until the outro, when was it much higher.

[@livinglife4835]

All his video his voice is too low.

[@sophieoshaughnessy9469]

Oh YES. EXERCISE! Connecting with your body is essential. So much more truth in our bodies than in our increasing instacrap-filled minds

[@SDC509BowmanDeal]

Katie: "There is a difference between MAPs who are attracted to minors and those who do not act on it." Sounds like the same argument Christians make regarding same sex attractions....

[@robertsands8137]

Self-identification is the absurd beginning of the trans phenomena. Identity is formed over a lifetime of interaction with reality and all its manifestations, not an expression of desire or fantasy. I am not bound to be controlled by an announcement of "identity" derived from narcissism, attention seeking, oppositional defiance, body dysmorphic disorder, dysphoria etc and not a relationship with reality. Why these terms are accepted by the population reveals a concerning defect. Normophobia very likely. I am pro reality testing not anti trans. Contagion disorders are historically very prevalent and numerous, similar to ROGD.

[@jdrigot]

Toddler development would not include "signaling sexuality".

[@ricksflicks-]

Coleman, your audio levels on your mike are too low. Yout guest is way louder than.

[@JRB2323]

Love your show, I have been enjoying watching these videos. Keep up the good work! My only critique is, it’s really hard to hear you and your guest is extremely loud, maybe you can equalize the audio tracks.

[@hustlehustlehustle]

There is so much hyperbole and hysteria on both sides of the debate. I'm glad that there are still adults who treat these issues with the necessary sobriety.

[@gg_rider]

It's not the overt dysphoria issues. That exists. It's all the books and papers about new forms of Leninism, Maoism, Che etc using LGBTQIA++++++ as a vehicle to overthrow western liberal societies and groom children into becoming angry empty sullen revolutionary activists, who hate everyone including their allies and themselves, but especially hate the other who is guilty of everything that is wrong.

[@75thBeatle]

1:18:55 OMG brilliant comic timing. WTG Katie.

[@ncrdavis5555]

Coleman, you and Katie are “classic liberals,” meaning that you’re applying logic only after researching politically-charged issues with open mindedness. Thank you.

[@CovocNexus]

The body response theory Coleman is purporting is going to fail. I think kids are more impressionable than we'd like to believe. If Coleman had seen gay pxrn when he was around the same age, he might have went down a different trajectory. He may have ended up bi at the very least.

[@gregorykent3482]

Great but criticising good faith attempts to roll back crt and gender bs needs much more than was offered here. Alternatives?