The problem with democracy | Matthew Flinders | TEDxHousesofParliament

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[@danieljones908]

The problem with democracy is that 51% of the people can force their will on 49% of the people 100% of the time.

[@Sofia-de5wy]

Well that depends on what kind of democracy we're talking about...

[@thephoenix756]

That's why constitutional restraints are essential. You can't just vote to remove freedom of speech or freedom of religion .

[@MeeTerra]

@Igor Horváth democracy is communism? dont think you know what either of those terms mean

[@MeeTerra]

@Igor Horváth well usually the majority isnt in favor of robbing you. the reason we have laws is because the majority agrees with them. there is no better alternative to democracy which we have seen

[@MeeTerra]

@Igor Horváth comparing democracy and anarchocapitalism is like comparing an apple and the wave model of light. they are completely different types of concepts.

[@EvenStarLoveAnanda]

This is an interesting take on Democracy. But the real problem is that, the current system whatever you call it, that is very vulnerable to abuse and corruption. We need to irradiate abuse and corruption by jailing the abusers.

[@flinchus]

What current system? There is no single system lol. Every system is exposed to corruption and abuse. And i guess you mean eradicate? Which is simple minded thinking. Politics is partisan. Who decides who gets jailed?

[@susanmcdonald6879]

also, I was wondering if not being engaged in politics mostly by attacks, the large amounts of money needed to run, etc. (that it does no good to vote, apathy, herd mentality, short memories, poor understanding of history, etc.), rather we should inquire what it means to truly be a "citizen" and corresponding responsibilities that go along with that...

[@avencannon9719]

Susan McDonald Im gonna ask you to stop laying down such deep questions lol. But in all seriousness that is quite a perplexing and interesting question. One that deserves more observation and pondering.

[@seangrahamfilm]

Fantastic. Thanks for this.

[@susanmcdonald6879]

sorry, thinking of more stuff, democracy only lasted 3 generations in Athens!!! but it has fueled our imaginations for 2,500 years! the athenian democracy, where every citizen voted on every issue every few weeks after long speeches & discussions in the agora.... a unique time as also was the american revolution who based their ideas on ancient experiments.... then there are plato's ideas that democracy will ultimately lead to tyranny................... think we are getting there?

[@sportsjunkies1399]

what i am getting off of this is that you mean democracy is overrated and it will sooner than later collapse at itself, shown by previous history?'

[@luvbootys]

Susan McDonald Europeans colazaiton got there ideas from the native Americans who had free republic where evey man women had a voice to speak up with laws in place not governed by kings queens emperor's Pharos or the church it was a new world for them and they got the beliefs from natives white women fell in love with native American men so much they married into the tribes because of the freedom women had and a voice they can speak of you don't believe that part ancestory.com and many others where you can look up your DNA there finding native American blood

[@Rey-lg8sx]

Democracy is good it is only left exploited by bad people.

[@schechter01]

Just for perspective, when Athens was at its height only 2/5ths of the populace could legally vote, at maximum. The remaining 3/5ths were slaves (of course they couldn't vote), women, & noncitizens.

[@johannessvensson5993]

Probably the best video, I have ever seen!

[@jamesklein1278]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

[@schechter01]

0:56 - That's an understatement, old bean.

[@arkapravamukherjee3784]

Brilliant.

[@etaaramin9361]

In this age, where study after study across virtually all of the Western democracies demonstrate that the will of 99% of the population has an equal weight to *random noise* , where political engagement is next to zero, and voter knowledge is significantly less accurate than random chance, I think we can decisively say, no, we don't have "too much" democracy. Too much oligarchy, perhaps, but certainly not too much democracy.

[@etaaramin9361]

Negasso Kadir What democracies? Only Switzerland comes even close, and it is *still* a Republic. Republics - the United States included - are designed as Oligarchies, usually through Tweedism (you get to vote... on anybody I nominate!). The founding fathers were quite explicit - they didn't want "the masses" choosing what "men of distinction" disagreed with, and put all sorts of checks in place for the rich and powerful to overrule anything The People might want (Electoral Collage, no popular vote for the Senate, voting rights restricted to Land Owning White Men, no plebescite/citizen's initiative/recall elections - it's a long list). What we're taught in school about our form of government isn't the reality by far, granted the Tweedism has gotten far more extreme I think than even they imagined (the founders quickly realized, however too late, that the system was vulnerable to political parties and that they would ultimately be its undoing).

[@stayswervin554]

nope when the us started expanding voting rights we weirdly ended up in this mess by the end the century

[@thestifmyster1]

The less government involvement in your life, the less democracy is needed. The safer you are from the MOB. You can live your life as you see fit.

[@sensibleone3268]

So true especially now!!! With trying to restrict our freedom of movement

[@ReverenXero]

Majority rule. This demands that there be a minority. The double-standard of a class system is implicit and unavoidable. This issue was resolved by default in a Republic.

[@agent99._.53]

Problem still arises in a republic

[@owlnyc666]

Do not let problems get in the way of Democracy.

[@dg-ov4cf]

impressive ability to say so little using so many words, would be a good speechwriter

[@apm9151]

If you like democracy please explain why 51% should force its will on the 49%?

[@MeeTerra]

either the 51% get it their way or the 49% does. One of them creates the most benefit for the most people

[@sjacks3281]

Democracy means supreme power is held by the people. Not one person. Not a monarch. Not the military. A democracy is a Government that derives their power from the consent of the governed. The majority of the people don’t have a say in most so-called democracies. In the US, some people don’t vote and some are not able to vote due to government roadblocks. Only about 60% of the population participate in elections. Only 30% determine the winning candidate. Most countries that call themselves a democracy are not. They are oligarchies.

[@agent99._.53]

@@sjacks3281 no person or group of people should have supreme power over any individual.

[@agent99._.53]

@@MeeTerra no one should have sat over anyone’s life it’s not 51% vs 49%

[@MeeTerra]

@@agent99._.53 unfortunately where there is any sort of society, decisions need to be made that impose on some of the people's wills. even if we had a completely static society with a never changing constitution, that would still be the writers of the constitution (0.000001%) imposing their will on the rest of the people (99.999999%). there is not functioning society that we can create now in which wills are imposed on. theoretically, the most free society would be one where every individual has their own universe, with voluntary access to other people's universes.

[@brickbuddystudios]

Politics without politicians is necessary when politicians are pushing politics without policy.

[@furryslayer8688]

He has a British accent? Thought a person who would talking about this would be American

[@susanmcdonald6879]

also, compare BIG science, how science has gone from the individual discoverers, etc. has become complex and huge; perhaps democracy & government are the same....

[@etaaramin9361]

Susan McDonald "Big Science?" Care to name a single example of this?

[@alexxx4434]

100% Idealism.

[@ChannelMath]

re-engage in politics, got it.

[@susanmcdonald6879]

? I was confused with your use of the word "amazonian"' ! dictionary states that the word relates to the amazon river or to an amazon... i am unsure who named the South american river, but mostly amazonian refers to that tribe of warrior women, the word amazon itself coming from the Greek meaning without a breast (so they could shoot bow&arrows astride their horses in war)...and has come to mean a tall, aggressive , strong-willed woman.....

[@judahkang275]

He is talking about the company amazon

[@r.a.k.theorieskingsofyoutu4918]

5:30 somone is sleeping

[@akashpatil7691]

Dude, Drink the water or close the cap...don't wander around and give a Ted talk with a bottle in hand...

[@bambibabiegirl3979]

This was the best comment

[@lucieracine6688]

If you want to really fix democracy you have to resolve the problems of inequality. Too reverse measures of inequality from here would almost certainly see the rise of new takers who in time would create the same sort of breakage we now have. The human nature to exploit may in fact be the weakness democracy can't resolve.

[@thenonexistinghero]

Gotta agree with you there. Democracy is a kind of system that benefits the people most capable of influencing others the most.

[@AuntieMamies]

Democracy, at least in the US, is broken. And this is true but that doesn't mean democracy is the problem. The aspects in which we don't allow democracy is the problem. The electoral college, outsized influence od money in politics, not enough referendum votes, we don't vote in our SCOTUS. There's a lot of ways our democracy is broken. But I'll still take democracy over any other form of government. At least you get the chance to fix your democracy. You get no choice in a dictatorship which in various forms is the only other option. The will of one man over a whole country is something many countries have over and over again fought against. People aren't meant to be ruled.

[@WeaponizedGoochsweat]

I wouldn't use the electoral college as an example per se. Otherwise, the coasts would be voting for the interests that best suit them and they'd always win, and those same interests may not be good for the rest of the states. The electoral college gives other small states with their own cultures and economies a chance to have a say on a federal level for when it comes to electing a leader. Seems like a fair system for a country comprised of smaller territories rather than just a huge homogeneous super country without states. You could say the electoral college actually helps fix democracy problems, as it addresses the mob rule aspect of direct democracy

[@AuntieMamies]

@@WeaponizedGoochsweat no. The electoral college is how we end up with people like Trump and a broken 2 party system. Ranked choice voting would provide room for many different parties to run.

[@WeaponizedGoochsweat]

@@AuntieMamies I don't see how the trump part matters, supporter or not you have to admit in other countries dips like him are elected even if there aren't electoral colleges in other countries. The electoral college is the best way to ensure the smaller states get a say for their fate on the federal level. However there is still like you mentioned the difficulty for third party. I'd have to look into ranked choice.

[@AuntieMamies]

@@WeaponizedGoochsweat it's a system where voters rank their choices by what they prefer most to least. If you have 5 candidates running all with some similar and some much different platforms you have less of a chance of ending up with someone like him. In 2016 we could have ranked Bernie, Hilary, Trump, whatever libertarian. Instead they pushed out Bernie and people were stuck either voting for Hilary or not at all. Enough people chose to not at all. Also, there is actually no constitutional obligation for the electors to hand the win to the candidate that got the most votes. That is inherently flawed

[@WeaponizedGoochsweat]

@@AuntieMamies I like that system. I did wonder why runners stopped if they didn't get nominated, they don't have to. Probably something wrong going on. However, that still makes me worry about the smaller states.

[@owlnyc666]

What are the problems with a Republic?

[@bradmitchell1835]

A little too abstract to grasp the ideas in this. In this era of catastrophe when the whole race of man can be stamped out by environmental or nuclear crisis, adversarial politics is not enough because it doesn't take us anywhere we need to go. Is that what he was trying to suggest?

[@kago500]

Democracy can't work as long as we live in a carnal society where the most important thing is money. If money didn't exist and everyone was satisfied, people will be more motivated to explore new ideas and horizons. People would be educated better and would choose the right person to govern not the one that promises them money. To put it simply as long as money exists, the rich and the poor will always exist, the so called eradication of poverty will never happen and a small elite few will rule over the masses for an eternity. if there is no divide, none of the above will exist and thus society can evolve without the wall of human greed in its path. This is no dream or illusion but a possibility. It is not a perfect society either, as crime, philosophical differences and possibly even wars might still occur in such a world but it will still be a better world than the cesspit of despair that we call the world today.

[@corywheeldon1538]

Well having a classless society where everybody is supposedly equal doesn't work hence socialism and communism is awful

[@kago500]

@@corywheeldon1538 Socialism and communism does not mean equality. Socialism means workers control what they produce. Communism means everyone produces what they are able to do including excesses and wants and everyone receives what they need minus excesses. It is not equal, just a better environment.

[@corywheeldon1538]

@kago500 ask the soviet Union that they didn't seem to like it. Everybody is equally poor in these countries, I've spoke to people who have lived in these countries and they all said that socialism and communism is the worst and leads to deaths of millions. North Korea, Venezuela, China and Russia especially soviet Union proves that

[@corywheeldon1538]

@kago500 the only people who like these political ideologies are those who have never lived under one.

[@corywheeldon1538]

@kago500 I've heard people from communist countries tell me that moving to the west was the best thing they ever did. So these systems don't lead to better environments at all unless you like being poor and somebody telling you what you can and can't do.

[@zaheraldik5016]

Why is he mad

[@moistness482]

"51% people can force their will on 49% people" That's... kind of the point

[@agent99._.53]

That isn’t good

[@moistness482]

@@agent99._.53 Better than the 49% forcing their views on 51%.

[@jpeg1871]

@@moistness482 no, its much more complex than that.

[@theprocrastinator5554]

Worst Ted talk ever

[@jaredprince4772]

The talk was a well thought out and articulate snow job.

[@angledamion95]

Telling people to vote is frankly irresponsible. I am amazed that the groups who have been denied democracy the most tend to bring right wing politicians to power. Nixon and Trump are both a result of African Americans. I'm not putting down Blacks. My solution to democracy is have everyone get into college for free and get a 4 year degree in political science to legally vote. But blacks flipping out in the late 60's after winning back the vote helped lead to Nixon who carried out genocide and started the war on drugs to go after enemies like blacks. Also blacks are the reason Hillary was the nominee and we all know why that wasn't good.

[@tanveerahmed2327]

This TED talk made no sense whatsoever.