The Problem With Henry | Thomas Hot Takes

I've always understood why people believe there are 3 different cannons in the Thomas franchise but never understood why Henry being in his old shape in 'The Adventure Begins' was one of the leading points.

[@karenfan010]

I think animation budget is why so many characters disappeared in the cgi series such as boco duke stepney arthur molly dennis and so many others

[@TankEngineJonJon]

some characters never showed back up because HIT/Mattel didn't want so many male characters. Unlike Molly and Flora, they just simply forgot they existed.

[@Michealfries]

@@TankEngineJonJon RIP those fun side characters

[@Notmortarandivyson]

No a lot of those disappeared because they just needed one episode with the new character so Mattel could sell merchandise and get money.

[@wishbonefan]

Molly could have had a CGI model made in Nitrogen, since she was one of the models sent to Nitrogen for reference

[@ToastTheThe]

​@@Notmortarandivysonnah if the merchandise characters appeared in multiple episodes you'd think their merch would sell better (look at spencer for example)

[@user-zz3ii8xy3v]

This video made me notice how reshaping the models weren't much of a thing up to this point, with a lot of wear and tear on the engines having been represented with slight adjustments to the renders of the color design, prior to SLOTLT

[@DSK_Terrence_Official]

Budget with CGI Henry. Edit: Henry is one of my favorites, because of his confusing story

[@chesapeakedproductions3009]

My personal point of view, I think Henry was flanderized as a character because the writers just took the fact that he was weak. They took the fact that he was weak when he was in his original chucked Gresley design, and they made it a standard norm. Hell, it's shocking that it only happened when the show transitioned to CGI in 2009. He became a big scaredy cat of every, single, damn thing. A fucking SNOWMAN of all things in Season 13, being literally afraid of the rain in The Adventure Begins, etc. It's so sad that he was flanderized to the degree he was, because there were moments where Henry felt like the true Henry we all know, such as Henry's Hero and Henry In The Dark. Henry had so much potential in CGI, and they did try a few times to do some interesting things with him (like his dynamic with Hiro), but by the time they did actually write him well, they had wrote him off the show in the episode Forever & Ever

[@4WD_Australia]

While Henry was bullied for the whole rain thing… the original was not kid friendly.. Once an engine attached to a train heard the sound of nazi planes he squeaked through his funnel and went into the tunnel and didn’t come out until it was safe Henry was lucky he was outside ballyhoo tunnel and this based of a real event

[@thesudriana016]

While CGI doesn't have limitations unlike the model series, it doesn't mean it can also have budgetary issues too which is quite understandable. I also remember reading info about the Lead Mines being lost in transfer when Nitrogen sent the renders of the props and characters to Arc/Jam Filled (hence the reused set of Callas Cavern), and how they were originally going to animate the old windmill from the original intro in SLOTLT.

[@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967]

At least it could have potential to adapt Gordon Goes Foreign since it's less budget problems than model series.

[@Matthew-oi6kz]

Supposedly, they DID want to do Old Shape Henry, but the file was lost, and they didn't have time to redo it as production for TAB was a little rushed.

[@TankEngineJonJon]

The files were definitely not lost but I do see where you’re coming from

[@kekofsodor4899]

As the series was going I always figured there was the RWS canon and the TV series canon. When it came to the HiT era and the CGI era the series, I figured the show entered what's called a floating timeline where dates are not set and you can watch most episodes out of order. The Simpsons has a floating timeline as well, where in classic Thomas the older seasons built on top of one another and there was a lot of timeline consistency while everything else after just kind of hangs around whatever. The CGI seasons specifically though I think they retconned and goofed so many details that it could sort of be considered its own canon, which is where I think some fans get that conclusion to keep things straight forward. Lore details like The Adventure Begins being different from season 1, Hiro being the first engine on Sodor, Henry's shape if it's to be accepted as hard canon to CGI, all that sort of stuff. Most of these changes for me I consider them to be simply mistakes, The Adventure Begins overall I think could be considered its own alternate history. The only change from The Adventure Begins that'd I'd be willing to retcon for the classic seasons would be James' black paint, since James being red prior to his accident was technically a goof in the classic seasons really.

[@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967]

The CGI seasons continues from the model seasons in the same show thus same canon despite differences. References to the model series do pop up in CGI along with characters.

[@jeremiahsisaias8677]

I think James suffered the most damage on himself in Fastest Red Engine On Sodor. When he destroyed the back wall of Tidmouth sheds.

[@Sugerloadedgirl789]

I was about to say the same thing however he at least was able to speak to Rosie after the fact. Here, he was so overcome with pain he couldn't really say anything. I'm going by the idea that the animation, while absolutely perfect showing the crash itself, doesn't truly show the damage James sustained. Most likely, the damage would be quite similar to what TFREOS showed except most likely his left side and front getting completely ripped apart.

[@jeremiahsisaias8677]

@@Sugerloadedgirl789 When An Engine of Many Colors came out, while James is being repaired, it's where in his' dreams, he is suffering for his sins every time they end with him crashing into things and reminds him of Sir Topham Hatt telling him of being painted blue years ago to make him regret his careless actions.

[@TenderEnginesDontShunt]

If it wasn't about budget for reshaping Henry, and if it was about kids couldn't tell the difference between Henry in his new and old shape I would still be able to recognize our big nature loving engine along with other kids would notice that it's Henry as well

[@isle2857]

I’m really glad someone addressed this, I’ve never bought into the idea that Henry being in his new shape was a retcon of his old shape. TAB has a lot of weird continuity goofs like Tidmouth Sheds having 7 berths and the Suspension Bridge having its post-CAE appearance. And I totally get why Model and CGI are considered to be separate canons, but I think them to be one in the same. Considering how many references to and characters from the Model Series propped up in CGI, I’m fairly certain the intent was always for them to co-exist within the same timeline. Do the Model and CGI series fit together in a cohesive timeline perfectly? Absolutely not but then you have episodes like Four Little Engines and Skarloey the Brave taking place in the same canon, so either way there are heavy continuity issues.

[@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967]

Yes so the events of model and CGI do took place in the same canon despite differences since the CGI series continues from the model series of the same show.

[@Nic_2751]

That’s fair enough, but given the multiverse trend now, CGI being it’s own canon just seems easier to swallow

[@SapphireStar23]

I too figured that is why Henry was in his new shape and not his old one in TAB. Making new CGI modals is expensive and Henry would have needed a seconed one in his old shape. However, it would have possibly only have been used once for the movie and never used again for the entire series. So the studios thought it better just to stick to the one modal.

[@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967]

Such a pity.

[@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967]

Using it in flashbacks would do as well.

[@Bepe223]

I find there being 3 different canons being so dumb. Just because it tells a story differently then the last, doesn't mean it's replacing it by any means. If you think there different canons, that's alright. but just remember a animation error, doesn't mean it's a different canon.

[@zacharykim5596]

But sometimes it’s not just animation errors

[@AJOlaks]

I think that Henry being in his new shape is a factor but if I am using Henry to show the 3 canon thing I would use his personality he wasn't a coward in either the RWS or the Model Series and yet he was literally afraid of rain

[@Flower_Mom]

It's a shame TAB never got any follow up specials. I, for one, would love to have seen Henry's book adapted into fully voice acted, beautiful CGI animation. We probably would have gotten to see Henry in his old shape in CGI then. But the chances of that happening now are slim to none because Mattel doesn't think we deserve nice things.

[@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967]

As well as Duck and the Diesel Engine book recreated in CGI.

[@Ryder-a-Blaze]

I’m an animator myself and I know just how hard it is

[@thebatterymill]

I don’t pay too much attention to calling model and CGI different canons because both have many episodes that are compatible with one another anyway.

[@killdozer7792]

Isn't it more likely that The Adventure Begins is its own unique canon separate from anything else? There IS technically an argument for this, particularly regarding the flashback to The Sad Story of Henry. In TAB, it's shown Henry did hide in the tunnel out of fear....but we also got a flashback to the very same story back in Blue Mountain Mystery, and it showed Henry refusing in the same, snobby way he did all the way back in the original story.

[@tre-engines]

But why didn’t they just duplicate the render, remove the green triangles on the sides of Henry’s Smokebox and change the boiler?

[@TankEngineJonJon]

Because regardless of if it’s the original render or a copied one, they still had to design, render, and rig an entirely new model. That takes time and money

[@TheSpongeBobGuy01]

Seasons 1-24 are obviously in one timeline.

[@jackieblue122]

I think something that could've fixed this flaw would've been to frame the special as the 100th anniversary of the NWR since this did come out in 2015 and the NWR opened in 1915 (at least according to the books). The special could take place in "modern day" and the engines could just tell their stories and have them be shown as flashbacks. Henry's story could just have the camera angle focus on the parts of him that didn't change from his rebuild. They already did something like that in BMM when he talked about hiding in the tunnel by using the tunnel to hide his new shape.

[@Its_PacFan]

I still ,TO THIS DAY, do not get why people consider Thomas to have 3 Whole canons. Like, when they did the switch to CGI in 2009, HiT THEMSELVES stated that the show will still be in the same canon.

[@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967]

Yes since it continues from the model era.

[@LMS5935]

Technically according to an interview in 2008 the CGI and model series are the same canon so technically it’s more fanon than canon.

[@kingnyananimations2134]

That was the first 5 words that were said…

[@ShortPuff]

That comment doesn't mean anything anymore. That was when cgi first starter. by that point, sure. You could say both are the same canon, but from S17 - onwards, and especially the Adventure Begins existing. it is practically impossible for both to be the same canon.

[@LMS5935]

@@ShortPuff No it’s simple…. It’s called a ret con… they are the same universe and there’s no arguing and that because the show creators confirmed it however do I personally believe they are the same universe. No

[@ShortPuff]

@@LMS5935 Mate, it simply isn't. Otherwise it would literally contradict everything that was shown in the models. Such as locations being changed, story events changed, and character personalities. Plus, they mentioned several events cgi that never happened in the models. It's simply a different universe. That's just a fact.

[@LMS5935]

@@ShortPuff Using that logic The adventure begins and the season 18 are separate universes because Knapford has the season 19 design even though it takes place in the past.

[@BriceGum138]

I still find it hard to believe the original Thomas TV show had two canons (because they didn't even bother to split the live-action model and CGI animated seasons as two of their own fucking things and I really don't give a fuck if most of the events from the model seasons weren't referenced in CGI, unless it has to do with continuity errors or retcons within canon), this is a pretty good hot take video you made on Henry. It's such a shame they couldn't get to access editing his CGI model from his new shape to his old one in "The Adventure Begins" or even in "Blue Mountain Mystery" and it really does explain the continuity error with Henry that both specials have made twice.

[@JWModelling]

what is blud waffling about

[@BriceGum138]

@@JWModelling I don't know what you even mean by it.

[@brenlc1412]

Budget? All they had to do was taper the firebox. If they really wanted to go the extra mile they could’ve removed the smokebox saddles and wheel arches. That doesn’t seem that expensive.

[@TankEngineJonJon]

Believe me. It is. If it wasn’t, they probably would’ve.

[@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967]

@@TankEngineJonJon They could have tried harder though.

[@TankEngineJonJon]

@@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967 it doesnt matter how hard they try. a budget is a budget

[@railwayproductions14]

Henry in CGI series was totally out because he is a hypochondriac except henry gets the express/ henry's hero/ and henry in the dark RWS AND THE MODEL SERIES IS THE DEFINITIVE VERSION OF HENRY

[@TankEngineJonJon]

i see someone's an unlucky tug fan

[@AS3GamingEnjoyer]

Henry has so many problems, I could not even Imagine. I think he is the only engine to be afraid And scared of rain, In the CGI.

[@MasterOfTheLemons]

Without even watching the video I'm gonna save everyone the trouble; his firebox is too small. BOOM, eat your heart out Crewe

[@Kukaak]

The three canons theory has been debunked several times by people who worked on the show anyways. RWS and TVS are different canons, but the TVS was never supposed to have multiple timelines. I have no idea why people still act this theory is canon.

[@dshaynietheawesome]

I think it is far more likely they were unaware Henry had another shape as it would require very little effort to model different parts and swap em in with the existing character rig. Or another possibility maybe they were aware but didn’t think it was worth the effort as Henry was A. a very minor character in that movie with the least focus out of all the other engines present and they probably didn’t think kids would notice the difference with something as minor as a different shaped firebox exterior. Unlike with thomas and james where they only had to replace image files of their paint textures without needing to make any modifications to the models or character rigs. And arc had quite the pact schedule around that time period

[@TankEngineJonJon]

For one: that movie was 10000% not made for the child Thomas fans. That was more than obvious. But Henry being a minor character is a good theory as to why they didn’t bother changing his look, as it didn’t effect the story

[@theflyingkipper42]

You forgot to say that In the movie "Blue Mountain Mistery" in "The sad story of Henry" flashback scene Henry is in his old shape.

[@islesofforeignrails7917]

Actually, he was in his new shape

[@theflyingkipper42]

@@islesofforeignrails7917 So I forgot, sorry. It's just that I have such a memory of how I watched for a very long time.

[@lordvader1672]

I Suffer dreadfully and no one seems to care.

[@BalticoYT]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the "They didn't have the money to do so" argument. They couldn't just copy Henry's render and change the firebox shape? That's what they did in the first season of the show. They made the firebox and splashers removable from the model in order to change Henry's shape mid-season. Yet, somehow, in the age where Thomas is as popular as ever, they don't have the budget to change the shape of some polygons on a computer? It's not like they're making a completely new character.

[@TankEngineJonJon]

1.) The animation and physical models are two different things. By a LONG shot. And 2.) the departments in productions of shows (animation, writing, voices, etc) all have separate budgets. And I’m assuming all the writing budget went into nitrogen movies. Not the eps. And since the animation budget most likely stayed the same, they saw no reason to improve. When the production was passed to Arc, they had a larger budget but not a large enough budget to make modifications to pre-existing model renders. TAB got the animation upgrades it did most likely due to saving money on animation for the first 2 seasons/movies.

[@joelanderson4899]

in my headcanon there are two canons. RWS and some model episodes, and CGI and some model episodes

[@stationmasterfelix2037]

“Period”

[@savagegardenfan9680]

I like the Believe they are 4 Canons in the Thomas Lore (Not counting TATMRR and AEG of course). 1 The Railway Series (the 42 Books), 2 The Classic Series (Seasons 1 - 7), 3 The Hit Era (Seasons 8 - 12) and 4 The CGI Series (Seasons 13 - 24). I don't like the Classic Series and the Hit Era in the SAME Canon.

[@Michealfries]

Hey hey wait all they really needed to do was mix Gordon’s model and Henry’s because in the show there isn’t that much of a difference

[@theamazingadventureofeduardo]

So that would explain why They didn't want to change Henry's new shape into the old shape. It's because they need the money for it. o_o

[@fjvy]

rip henrys character

[@3xfaster]

Can someone tell me why the engines stop like they are behaving like they have car suspension by nosing under whenever they come to a stop? Engines just don’t stop light that. Really wish they didn’t use their bodies to emote, the faces where enough.

[@islesofforeignrails7917]

5:51 can someone please tell me the name of that song? I haven't got a clue what the title was.

[@Kukaak]

Clocks, from the band Coldplay

[@islesofforeignrails7917]

@@Kukaak+ it's from Coldplay? Damn, i missed that song so much.

[@Goldtendo25]

The problem with Henry: he left the main cast

[@Flower_Mom]

That would be the problem with Mattel.

[@E2ForLife]

Season 1-24 is the same canon

[@SBDC_YT]

Long Thomas in TGR scene = Hornby Thomas

[@DSK_Terrence_Official]

Nigga, you got a point

[@laurawhelchel3915]

James is some time a brat.but i love him pain in the but or not he is a love and i love Thomas and friends.

[@j.a.astudios4854]

4:08 one word textures

[@engineboy53productions15]

Interesting talking point.

[@Old_Known29]

I feel like the reason why the show is in 2D is very time the visuals gets good, the show falls. Season 5 and 6 Season 11 and 12 Season 16 and 17 Season 20 and 21 Season 24 and AEG Rather you think it’s good, very time the visuals peak, the show falls. If the shows animation was like season 18, then the show might have money to continue in 3D

[@NitroIndigo]

Why is a TRAIN riding a MINECART? The animals looked from pig to man...

[@t.v.i.m]

Don’t remember where I heard this so take it with a grain of salt but isn’t the TV series in the books? That’d mean everything’s cannon, but none of it’s “real” :|

[@thomasfan2587]

Bro I want to see Annie and Clarabel

[@TankEngineJonJon]

In time…

[@Road_railproductions]

Rws?

[@henrythetreeboi9111]

Aw :(

[@sdstewart87]

The problem with the CGI series is that as a whole it is terrible. The models used during the classic series were fantastic and as a whole the classic series was far superior than this shit they've pedalled in recent times with this CGI crap

[@connercarey5942]

E

[@OptimusPrime298]

3:04 They did not even made an old shape version on him in this?! This is lazy cgi whey is wrong with them?!

[@j.a.astudios4854]

4:08 one word textures