Rebuilt or Scrapped (A Henry the Green Engine topic) (Two Henrys Theory)

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Be sure to join the discord lads: discord.gg/DbF3Djucg7 See you there (or when I’m alive again) Timestamps: 0:00 Context and Comedic whatever the hell you want to call it 1:02 Behind The Green Engine 2:47 History Behind the Green Giant 4:39 what is the “Two Henrys Theory”? 5:07 why do people believe the Two Henrys Theory 5:47 why people don’t believe The Two Henrys Theory 7:11 how Henry’s rebuild might’ve gone 8:59 Final Thoughts

[@CampDweller]

I just believe that they put Henry’s face on the Black 5 smoke box.

[@ryandyer3466]

It actually explains Henry 1 and 2 because mechanically Henry prior and after Crewe are 99% different engines only sharing a face (smoke box door)

[@NWRGreen5Productions]

This theory makes the most sense to me, considering Sir Thopham Hatt's character, and some of the things, like the old parts being melted down and re-shaped, are things that I had been thinking about. Its nice to now see how that was possible. :)

[@DSK_Terrence_Official]

Hurricane’s Basis was rebuilt into a tender engine, so there’s only 1 henry

[@megariderfire1994]

Yep, true. (Also, although the A55 Decapod is a pretty unique looking tank engine...it's odd that Hurricane isn't in his rebuilt A55R form (this is way before diesels like even FRANKIE, who also debut in JBS like Hurricane, exist) and of course they don't explain it)

[@LMS5935]

Actually, there’s kind of is a right answer, see the way the Reverend talks about everything in the history books and notes is his as if the engines don’t have faces, how would Percy not know what he is if he sent it? How would Edward not know what he is if he’s sentient, how would Henry not know what he is, if he’s sentient? He refers to the skr engines as she/her a lot. when the Reverend was writing the history books, he wasn’t thinking about the engines with faces. He was thinking about the engines as if they were real so it makes sense why a real engine would be completely taken apart, and only using the minimum amount of parts so that they could just build a new engine.

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Hmmm interesting answer

[@W1ND0WP4YN3]

There was this one KZbin user called: “wildnorwester,” and his theory makes the 2 Henry theory more believable, because he said that Henry was moved into a Black 5 body(Sir Topham had a partnership with Sir William Stanier), while the old body was left to decay. However, the LMS found it and rebuilt it, which resulted in a bit of conflict when Henry MK2 & Henry MK1.5 met each other, but during the wartime, they managed to put aside their differences. I prefer this way of the 2 Henry theory rather than replacing Henry, because I don’t think the Topham would ever do something as cruel as that

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Did that happen in his HC?

[@W1ND0WP4YN3]

@@ScorchZaneTrains I'm not entirely sure about whether or not it's in his head canon, but that's what he thinks about the 2 Henry theory

[@troublesomevanstudios]

It was unused

[@Brony2T]

WNW's headcanon is unused due to him sticking to the RWS' logic and he thinks that would be too strange. I agree with him but the theory is still pretty cool

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

@@Brony2Twould make a great story tbh

[@WhisperingWiltshire]

i imagine that Henry I’s Face was cut off from his smokebox and secretly was put on to Henry’s II’s Smokebox. And that’s How Henry Remember’s the FK Incident and the Tunnel

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

Same smokebox

[@SparklingJam]

That’s what I always thought

[@harrisonallen651]

There’s only one Henry to me, and I don’t care how complicated Awdry was with character designs.

[@kodabear2856]

For me personally, when I took what awdry said about there being two Henry’s, I was getting ready to accept that. I know what you said about Henry remembering things from his past, but both times it was other engines teasing Henry about his misfortunes, we don’t even see Henry’s reaction in the books after Percy teases him about water. However, one thing that kept me from accepting that there were two Henry’s was in the book Henry and the Express, when Henry asked the fat controller if he had to go back to crew for an overhaul. The black 5s were built in 1934 and Henry went to crew in 1935, so I highly doubt any newly built black 5s would need an overhaul, unless they had an accident but I digress🤷🏾‍♂️. Not just that, but in Gordon’s whistle, Gordon basically gaslights Henry, saying he didn’t need an overhaul and could’ve made his original shape work; and that it was wrong of Henry to leave sodor while the rest did his work, and Henry felt bad. The whole point of Gordon doing what he did was to make Henry feel guilty, lazy and selfish and it worked until Percy and Edward cheered him up. With those two things in mind, I now believe Henry 1 and 2 are the same engine 😌👍🏾

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

I mean hey up to you

[@TankEngineMedia]

I always thought that Henry I & II were the same character cause why would you waste a lot of money to get a new engine when you can rebuild the one you have. I also like how you explained the process of how Henry could’ve been built!

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

I like to think Henry’s firebox was kept and all the other Black 5 stuff like the taper boiler firebox Stanier tender etc. was added, maybe his set of wheels stayed (with his trailing wheels removed) or maybe a new set of Black 5 ones were added

[@hunterneitzel3012]

The black 5 never had trailing wheels below the firebox

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

@@hunterneitzel3012 Yeah what I was referring to was Henry having trailing wheels when in his old shape that would be removed when he was being rebuilt into a Black 5

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

@@hunterneitzel3012Meant to say Henry’s *smokebox* was kept during his rebuild not his firebox

[@steamzilla95]

Henry’s the same engine in my AU and as for the theory: The events of The World’s Strongest Engine happens during the events of Duck and the Diesel Engine but Diesel tells lies about Henry is a faker while the real one was scrapped resulting Diesel to sent away by barge.

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

@@steamzilla95 damn no wonder why diesel got thr boot

[@greatwestern57]

I personally think that henry isn’t EXACTLY a black 5, he contains many traits of his original design, but with all the major components of a black 5

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

I honestly agree ngl

[@Keaness]

8:58 I mean sort of. But black fives have smaller wheels so it’s more likely they just gave him smaller ones reducing the need for splashers

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Or I guess scraping the old ones then remaking them in a smaller scale so I guess

[@Keaness]

@@ScorchZaneTrainsthat’s a thought 💭

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

@@Keaness true

[@atanproductions5137]

I should say that Henry was rebiult by having his boiler tubes and steam pipes removed and transferred to a new Black 5 body, while having the rest of his old shape melted down.

[@D261-Class40]

Some people think the 2 henry theroy still exist. _., so can't wait

[@LivelyValley401]

They scrapped his original look, removed his face from the old one and put it one the new one.

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

And retains the original one

[@greenturtlgaming2554]

When and where was it confirmed they have faces?

[@QuadbikesRfun]

I don’t think the fat director would scrap his engines if he had a choice so I’m sticking with rebuilt idk but he also might’ve had to scrap him since there was no point 😢

[@Dafurnessrailwayguy]

I think the rebuilt when his firebox was put into the work and the rebuilt is the boiler was put into an 4-6-0 chasis and then they get a new cab and a black 5 boiler and a spare tender and put the boiler and the smokebox and boiler and his boiler was putted ino the new chassis

[@FictionalADDON]

Well the Unluckytug made a theory that Henry was actually standardized, there are real life examples too.

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Ngl I agree since it makes more sense

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

3:38 perhaps henry l is the green engine fŕom Edwards day out

[@Cashtron-d8b]

See the Problem with Henry is that while a rebuild like this COULD happen, it could only happen if he didn't have a face. The only way to fix that is either BadManoredProduction's take on Henry. Or just treat him like a prelude to the Black 5s, with him being rebuilt into a Black 5 later on after The Kipper Incident.

[@supermaily4930]

For me henry had two siblings croven and revee but those too were modified and when henry had his crashed he was rebuild to a black 5 with some modifications and sir Tophat the 1st sent him a letter about henry the mysterious builder 😂 wanted to cover up his tracks he said crovan

[@julyleonard]

I think Henry had surgery during his rebuilt at Crewe. Whaddya think?

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

I’m going to agree on this

[@ItstheBreadMan]

fun fact: During WWII, the reading (pronunciation is redding not reading mind you) railroad rebuilt their I-10sa 2-8-0 consolidations to 4-8-4 northern t1s in their shops in Reading, Pennsylvania.

[@ZacharyCrawford-w3m]

I THINK THAT THERE ARE THREE HENRYS IN THE TV SERIES

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

wait wh-

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

Wait I meant to write I thought Henry’s smokebox (aka where his face is) was kept during his rebuild not his firebox, guess I didn’t realize I miswrote it

[@RobtheD41Loco]

I can imagine Henry being an LNER C1 in LNER Green with Red Lining and having 3 on his Cab and NWR On his Tender

[@TheLazyFusspot_3428]

I had this idea from someone on Reddit that Henry was constructed by the same person who built "The Great Bear" in the GWR. I honestly like this idea.

[@RobtheD41Loco]

@@TheLazyFusspot_3428 Cool

[@Jayhsia1215]

@@TheLazyFusspot_3428 you meant great western way man named George Jackson Churchward?

[@TheLazyFusspot_3428]

@@Jayhsia1215 yep. He had a huge grudge towards Gresley with his very own A1 Pacifics.

[@xavierjuno4572]

​@@TheLazyFusspot_3428there does seem to be evidence of this considering that Reginald Payne seemed to have based his sketches of Henry on the Great Bear itself

[@NicholasSSR1]

I believe you because rebuilds like this was kinda worth it instead of just making a new one just make the old one into something new

[@GamerKiing-tb2sw]

Alfred was even shocked to see two Henry’s

[@SudrianSparrow]

I think Henry is the same it's probably a black 5 with the original smoke box

[@ludovicorusso-gm1kw]

hm, never knew Henry was meant to be an Atlantic, well the more you know. But also, wouldn't the running board be elongated, i imagine the black 5 firebox is bigger than his old one, maybe i am wrong.

[@edschward_edwardo]

I believe that Henry's rebuilt is just they cut off the smoke box door and put it on the black 5

[@Galacticvoidshorts]

Me too

[@Akshathtesekar]

I think that the reason in the ios book it says henry1 and henry 2 is because it supposed to be henry version 1 and henry version 2

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Hmmm you might not be wrong, that could be the case

[@Pro_gamer236]

I think they transferred his smokebox door to the new engine then his old shape was scrapped

[@Keaness]

But realistically (the engines only have faces in the stories. They’d reuse a lot more than just the smoke box door. It’d make more sense on a financial level.

[@theresewalsh6659]

Yes that how Henry got his rebuild

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

My theory on henry having no problems in the shed 17 universe was it becasue they filled him with welsh coal

[@gordonthebigenginenwr4]

Or what if henry face were switched to the new body of the black five maybe?...

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

One issue with this explanation is that it takes away the whole point him being rebuild.

[@gordonthebigenginenwr4]

@@ScorchZaneTrains ok

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

@@gordonthebigenginenwr4 but hey it’s your opinion lad

[@gordonthebigenginenwr4]

@@ScorchZaneTrains yes

[@TojiAK47]

The same engine who went there was the same engine who came back, I think miss conception for a lot of people if that Henry after coming from crewe is that he is “Literally” a black 5 which isn’t the case. He just resembles one quite closely but he isn’t really a black five, he just had a new fire box, tender, running board,cab, and extension of the rear driving wheels, which were things from the black five since LMS crewe was where most black 5’s were build.

[@BANANAsuit231_eggs]

In my au, Henry is the Great bear (Gwr), and like in real life, he was rebuilt into a castle in 1924, meaning the flying kipper never happened.

[@RWSfan2024]

I always thought they were the one and same Henry but I do like the idea that there were two Henry’s.

[@TheSudrianTerrier653]

in my AU Henry Mk2 is a Hybrid Between a Princess Royal and a Black 5 (imagine a Black 5 stretched into a Pacific) so the Rebuild makes more sense

[@Scott_3F]

I always thought it made sence since Henry being an 4-6-0 just worked as him turned into a black five, considering all the men had to do was replace the firebox. While yes Henry might not 'be' a black five, he resembles one

[@TheEerieMaster]

I say they just, slapped the smoke box door onto a black 5 and called it a day... Impossible

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

Aré patriot on Thomas the trainz adventures universe Is a claughton that looks like a patriot

[@muhammadNizam748]

My theory is that, henry smoke door get cut and place it to new body

[@Hasnasehatbahagia]

Well, i thing Henry face was put on a faceless black 5 smokebox door , and that why he feel like a different engine , well for Henry old shape was forgotten and put on somewhere at Henry forest.

[@megariderfire1994]

Personally, I think Henry was actually rebuilt from a rejected GNR A1 prototype that was not supposed to have been built (at least that's how I see that in my headcanon instead of a hybrid engine) into a Black 5 Stanier. But overall, you are right the Two Henrys theory is up for fans to take in as a personal headcanon or not. Heck in one of Unlucky Tug's debunked shorts, he thinks Henry was heavily standardized into his LMS Stanier 4-6-0 new shape. It's all up to interpretation. Also, there's another thing I'm curious about...I know it was confirmed in RWS that Henry's old shape was a rejected prototype designs of the GNR A1 but when was it explicitly confirmed in official Thomas related media that Henry's old shape was a HYBRID of GNR A1 and GNR C1? I'm actually curious... I'm also curious whether in official media stated that in RWS that the Atlantic engine that Sir Topham Hatt initially wanted was actually a indeed GNR C1 (whether it's the small boiler or large boiler) or a GCR 8B Atlantic. Personally I believe it's actually the Robinson 8B Atlantic but again, that's up to our interpretation anyways.

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

personally I like to think he is a hybrid, so that his rebuild made more sense. Though who knows maybe did order a GCR 8B or GNR C1. Tbh Awdry wasn’t specific on what Atlantic Henry was meant to be

[@EngineerNumber1]

I like to believe that henry isn't completely a black 5 and he was only rebuilt to resemble one just with a bigger fire box

[@yom4yem]

Wait so uh why are we just questioning henry what a bout james?

[@NWRAmericanK2Productions]

Ok I’m Going Give My Opinion and Thoughts On This Theory. To Me I Think The 2 Henry Theory is False and Here is My Reason Way. So Have You Heard The Story A Part Of Me Stayed Behind The Story Were Thomas and Gordon Find Their Original Versions Of Them In The Mines and How They Were Prototypes. Well In That Story The Fat Controller Said That They Saved Their Faces and Put Their Faces in New Bodies. Well My Theory Is That When Henry Was Sent To Crew The Workmen Probably Used Some Of His Parts From His Old Shape Like His Wheels, Cap and His Tender. And Maybe They Saved His Face and But His Face in a New Body. So Henry Was Turn Into a LMS Black 5 and Maybe His Old Shape Body Was Probably Sent For Scrap Or Used For Spare Parts.

[@BriceInkling138]

Does anyone that worked on Thomas or even Awdry's family know about this fan theory?

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

That’s an interesting question not gonna lie

[@BriceInkling138]

@@ScorchZaneTrains I couldn't really help myself on asking that, no matter who the person that knows a good lot about Thomas is.

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

@@BriceInkling138 well there is two that come to mind.

[@FormerlyJacksWorkshop2024]

Gordon looks pretty cool as a Raven A2

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

honestly I agree

[@MCstudio1274]

I like to think that the thug who stole the plans built three engines based on that design, with some alters and modifications of his own. The first two would be Crovan and 98462 (not Alfred), who, with the modifications, proved to be rather successful 4-6-2 express engines for the most part. However, while in the process of building a third, the thug ran out of parts and had to squish the back half of the locomotive together in a very half-hazard way, resulting in a 4-6-0 wheel arrangement and a substantially smaller firebox, resulting in Henry’s steaming issues. After Henry was kept on, given Welsh Coal and had his Flying Kipper crash, he was sent to Crewe, who basically standardized his parts. I’m pulling from what the Unlucky Tug said in one of his Thomas Debunked shorts. Imagine an LNER B17, with the Boiler, Smokebox, Firebox and Tender of a Black Five, retaining the wheel Splashers. Henry returned in this shape and remains a much stronger engine to this day. Also, while he does like to pull passengers from time to time, he does prefer goods work more often than not.

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

Tbh even if they still keep him as an alantic would he still have steaming problems

[@horsepowermultimedia]

Henry may have gotten a smokebox transplant, so his face was placed on the body of a Black 5 while his old body was scrapped or reused.

[@Chanellegray-t8u]

Henry 2 puts on the act

[@azuma892]

To this day I still don't understand what blank words Topham had said, can someone please explain?

[@Antluvstrains]

I hate the 2 Henry theory. There were rebuilt engine classes all the time. The SECR D Class for example was rebuilt into the much larger and stronger D1 Class.

[@managed9348]

Imagine if they got Henry right the first time

[@joshuaW5621]

The real question is why does the IoS book say 1922 instead of 1935 regarding there being two Henry’s?

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Tbh that’s honestly a good question

[@Jayhsia1215]

Nice

[@marklincovet509]

Rebuilt

[@Mr.toasterandclay]

Amazing job man

[@pukenmg284]

I still believe in The Unlucky Tug’s theory that it’s the same Henry since they’re several cases in real life that the engines were rebuilt into different shapes

[@An_Sudrian_LBSCR_Mogul]

7:11, your theory of Henry's rebuilt even makes sense, and also to something that i wonder if it would be possible for some class to be rebuilt with variants of another one. I say this because, based on me, my OC was an LB&SCR E2 built in 1914, but i was rebuilt as an LMS Jinty variant in 1965 at Crewe (However, an experimental version of it). Would it also be possible for an LB&SCR E2 to be rebuilt as LMS 3F Jinty variants?

[@ReviCat]

I don't know what to say about this but I can highly confirmed yes he was rebuilt he got an overhaul of a new tank and boiler + a tender water budge rebuilt because if he was dead his new counterpart would be built in 1940 when the second world War had its first birthday, but then Henry was built in 1919 so Henry is actually 105 years old, so yeah I'm not preparing a giant three paragraphs this video since this theory is actually very dumb not to be rude, it was just an overhaul and he was wiped out when he was being taken to the works and rebuilt an overhaul. As the TTTE wiki says "Before his rebuild, Henry is a freelance design, combining aspects of the Black Five shape and his original shape in The Railway Series, as budgetary constraints prevented the crew from constructing two separate models for him. Changes made to Henry's model for his old shape include a tapered firebox, inside steam pipes and the topfeed being removed. Additionally, Henry originally lost his splashers following his rebuild, however these were later added back in the second series. Contrary to how his old shape was portrayed in The Railway Series, Henry does not have a sloped running board and is depicted as having always been a 4-6-0, while in the books he was originally a 4-6-2." and yes Henry is a black five that got a rebuilt from his tank part of his boiler.

[@RavenandCandleDude]

Henry is an LBSC H2 Atlantic before being rebuilt into a Black 5 in my AU

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

interesting

[@RavenandCandleDude]

​@ScorchZane And Henry gets Yellow lining after his rebuilt

[@mrlazyoldmilk]

Which one

[@RavenandCandleDude]

@@mrlazyoldmilk Henry 2

[@josetapia9582]

Why He Was rebuilt even though there was nothing wrong with him? The LBSC H2 (Just Like The H1 predecessor) perform very well and so rebuilding henry would be a waste of time, money and also would probably ruin him

[@joykloke1604]

Correction the OTHERS Referenced these events not henry

[@RavenandCandleDude]

Can't wait

[@sebastianchangco5707]

If awdry was still alive we could get the answer

[@Kyle123Cartoons_Age_Is_12_Fr]

My Ideal Henry Was That He Wasn't Replaced And Scrapped He Was Actually Rebuilt Just Like You Did And Was Rebuilt Into A Lms 5f Aka A Black 5

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

the LMS 4Fs are 0-6-0 the Black 5s were 4-6-0 that had the power classification of 5P5F (later 5MT)

[@Kyle123Cartoons_Age_Is_12_Fr]

@@ScorchZaneTrains Opps

[@SodorExpressProductions]

Well I think some people are just not smart to say that henry is a two engine character and they dont think at all never learned about henry past life i mean awdry never said anything about two Henry’s because awdry would never say anything abouthenry being replaced and kid or people would get mad maybe at awdry replacing henry with a copycat

[@bernardothetankengine7218]

i liked you video!!

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

How come in the tvs Gordon dosent look like a raven a2

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Complex valve gear, 3 cylinder, while the Raven A2 has a more single valve gear and cylinder plus being a little smaller

[@That_one-7F]

Nice job did ya

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

Tbh why do people prefer the rws old shape over the tvs one

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

probably because it looks more real

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

@@ScorchZaneTrains however the rws have an issue to get a rebuilt

[@steamingtenkengines]

There's 1 thing you forgot the face

[@ExcitedGreenTea-pf5pq]

Henry is rebuild of a black 5

[@ZacharyCrawford-w3m]

HENRY IN HIS NEW SHAPE IN SEASON 1 HENRY IN HIS NEW IN SHAPE IN SEASON 2 IT NOT THE SAME THING

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

Jesus why the caps?

[@levidarling5107]

Call me crazy, but I think this rebuild could still happen even as a pacific.

[@garywyn]

Good content but, your Audio recording needs improving.

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

I’m going to agree ngl

[@auraknight1004]

Good video dude. Anyways, I think the two Henry’s theory is not true at all.

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

Yeah and just like that 98462 isnt a b16 in canon

[@jonathanpan6110]

Bruh he was rebuilt. Unlucky Tug has already debunked it

[@Earth_Is_Cool2]

What’s going on

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

wdym?

[@jamesknowles6875]

0:38 that’s danno a OC

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

@@jamesknowles6875 nah dude that’s bob

[@jamesknowles6875]

@@ScorchZaneTrains oh ok but danno looks like him

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

@@jamesknowles6875 I was being sarcastic (But in other words it’s just some random blue engine that I just shoved in there)

[@magdos7160]

3759th

[@Scot_edits]

Henry was not really a black five he jist look like one unlucky tuh said it

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

@@Scot_edits well it wasn’t necessarily just Unlucky Tug, Christoper and Wilbert said so as well

[@Scot_edits]

@@ScorchZaneTrains so yeah thats why I don't believe in 2 Henry theory

[@Sudriantank743]

Slow the hell down

[@ScorchZaneTrains]

;-; fine (I suggested putting the play back on 0.75x speed, in case you want a more slow version of this).

[@Sudriantank743]

@@ScorchZaneTrains thanks