The Problem With Martin Luther (Why Did You Become Orthodox?) - Dr. Cyril (Gary) Jenkins

[@ProtectingVeil]

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[@Kessogsasaina]

Lol its funny the good doctor read his way to Calvinism and then to Orthodox, I did the same but from Jehovah's witness to Orthodox. Its amazing how things change when you know church history!

[@cccccc1]

Me too, from JW towards Orthodoxy. Glory to God.

[@VicnoMoore]

Wow, for me it was 20 years as a JW, then 6 as a Calvinist, now a Catechumen. :)

[@renafielding945]

Me too

[@jw6163]

Ditto ! It seems many former jdubs are seeing the truth! 🤪

[@samantham2204]

Same. Read my way right out the JWs. Made a brief stop in the evangelical world and now I’m Orthodox. ❤️

[@burgervonstadt6503]

As a former Lutheran, this was one of the reasons I started investigating Orthodoxy.

[@radscorpion8]

how about investigating abandoning the church?

[@paulhudson4254]

The more you study, the deeper you drill, the more likely you are to convert to Orthodoxy! 🌺☦️🌺

[@toufekeskaf3849]

Yes. It's true brother. When you read the life of The Orthodoxe Saints you will find or be funded from The Right Way that leads everyone who seeks The Truth (Our Lord and God Jesus Christ to The Eternal Life. Amen.

[@JimmyGarcia58]

Happened to me …

[@drjohnn.sutherland3455]

My readings of Church history have shaken my blind allegiance to denominationalism. I worship Christ, adore his mother, and read scripture. I am at peace.

[@starkfaktory6920]

how can you adore his human mother ? who in the bible ever adored her ? remember Paul and his companion on that city, when they were greeted with flower necklaces and offerings and he said "do not worship us for we are humans" ???

[@aloe704]

@@starkfaktory6920 There is a difference between adoration and worship...

[@lindamorgan2678]

@@starkfaktory6920 I think he said ADORE not Worship. Protestantism does that just like the Icons are WORSHIPPED. Twisted thinking and propaganda

[@terawhitaker]

I grew up as Roman Catholic and slid to Lutheran and now Baptist. I am finding it hard to be around progressive Christians and the Holy Spirit has been pushing me to begin investigating Orthodoxy and get back to the real roots of becoming a better disciple of Jesus. Thank you for sharing this with me.

[@ProtectingVeil]

Godspeed!

[@MegaVicar]

Reading Martin Luther in seminary drove me to read the Apostolic Fathers, and that has moved me into Orthodoxy. As one biographer of him said, 'Luther was always pointing backwards to the truth'.

[@ringandpinion3064]

I've never heard it put that way, I had given up because I could reconcile the protestant church with reality. I was not seeking anymore and hadn't been for 10 or more years. Then I stumbled on a Greek festival and have been Orthodox ever since, but I'm not Greek.

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

As a baptist, the biggest shock I had was “you get to be a catechumen for a year!” I was like, and if I die before then?? 😅 So much ingrained anxiety lifted.

[@mattaw5412]

You're still Orthodox and will receive an Orthodox funeral. Christ judges our hearts, not how Orthodox we are. Even though Orthodoxy is His church. Fear not my friend

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

@@mattaw5412 Thank you Brother!

[@ionictheist349]

Actually if u die as an orthodox cathechuman, u are perceived as being part of the church.

[@EricBryant]

The catechesis process was 3 years in the 1st century church.

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

@@EricBryant Yes, this really goes to show what the priorities were back then. The priority was never to hurry up and get your ticket punched for Heaven. Rather it was to learn to live the life, without which there is no heaven to be had.

[@ElfAsura]

May you be blessed Dr Jenkins. Many of us have been on this journey and come to Orthodoxy in faith. There is a liberation from Luther and his doctrines of Protestantism when one comes into unity with Christ at the heart of the Orthodox faith.

[@johnnyd2383]

Hallelujah brother.!!! Knowledge can be "dangerous".! Many have come to The Truth after getting to know the history of The Church. Welcome home...

[@AJ-me1dg]

Thank you, Dr. Jenkins. I relate to the church history thing.

[@sophrapsune]

Fascinating interview, it would be great to hear more. Thanks.

[@toufekeskaf3849]

All people who are seeking The Truth, will find Him (Our LORD JESUS CHRIST) in the Orthodoxe Church because It's The Church of Christ whom The Holy Spirit have built, through and with The Apostles. Amen.

[@toufekeskaf3849]

As Our Lord Jesus Christ was on the Cross, He said to His Mother "Dear Woman hear is your son" and to His disciple whom He loved " Here is your Mother. So everyone believes in The Lord Jesus Christ, He will be son of God, and He says to him / her" Here is your Mother" and our Mother Mary helps all those who comes to CHRIST her SON and GOD. Special agents satan and temptations. When someone believes he will see and hear from Above. Amen.

[@peregrino1655]

Glad to know someone whose ways I am walking by now. Thank you.

[@ThatsMyChad]

Wow. That statement about being the person watching the dance going on and does nothing is such a real feeling.

[@Magnulus76]

The Lutheran confessions actually do not condemn prayers for the dead, and you will find prayers for the dead here and there in Lutheran liturgy (such as at funerals, tolling of the bells for the departed, and sometimes even in the prayers of the people in some churches, etc.). It's just not a major part of Lutheran spirituality, as we don't have a concept of indulgences or purgatory. We are taught to have confidence in God's grace, but that doen't mean we are forbidden to pray for the dead. What is condemned by Lutherans is the notion that the mass can be offered as a sacrifice for the dead, or that indulgences can be purchased to remit their sins. What Luther is speaking with Johan Eck about is the practice of having privates masses for the dead (typically for a fee), so that the wicked could turn aside from a life of faith and repentance through attempting to paying off God. The first of Luther's 95 theses states "1. The Lord Jesus Christ has commanded that repentance be the whole of the Christian life."

[@tomjull1106]

This is a very thoughtful correction. Thank you. And yet I never once heard this from the Lutheran pulpit in my decades in the Lutheran church. Nor was I ever asked to confess my sins before God's minister as taught in Luther's catechism. Corporate confession at the start of the liturgy is no substitute for 1:1 confession and absolution with a priest. Luther's cavalier handling of not only Maccabees, but also of James are among the many reasons I converted to Orthodoxy last year. The decline of Lutheran churches will follow the trajectory of Western liberalism itself.

[@romandaigle455]

@@tomjull1106the Bible is very clear that the dead are sleeping and know nothing. There should not be prayers or masses for them. Only Jesus Christ can hear your confession, not a fallen man. Only Jesus Christ can forgive your sins not a sinful man. Jesus Christ became our one and only high priest when he died on the cross and rose again. The old sacrificial system and priests are done away with.

[@marcib6767]

@@romandaigle455Your reply ignores the books of Maccabees, as well as John 20:23. Whenever I read replies like yours, I’m always reminded of just how much Protestants make up their faith as they go along and conveniently ignore scriptures that don’t match their personal theology. Lord have mercy.

[@larrydewein]

@@romandaigle455 Correct!

[@EricBryant]

I can relate to the Christian Operating System "Blue Screen of Death" experience ha!

[@stelioskatsampadimas1693]

PEACE ON EARTH PEACE IN OUR HEARTS

[@Admiral.Buttercup]

You need to do a second set with this guy - he's wonderful. Thank you for presenting this!

[@SibleySteve]

Awesome story, when I went to college I was naively impressed by cosmopolitan Calvinism against my rural pietism. Years later I dumped it all until I heard Bishop NT Wright exegete Galatians in Koine Greek and was so impressed with his pre-reformation respect for church fathers, and his rebuke of Lutheran anti-semitism and anti-Septuagint, now I’m Anglican Episcopal and I read my Septuagint and Greek NT and soak up the writings of Gregory, Clement, Origen, Chrysostom, Cyril, Justin, and the rest, and I wonder why Lutherans have not made peace with the Athanasian Creed.

[@lindamorgan2678]

Episcopal are not Christians and now they are joining with the methodist and will be enjoying homosexual uniions with in the Clergy. Heretics run do not walk. BTW my Lutheran friend does not have a problem with the Athanasian Creed and he left his church of 29 years when it split over the LGBTQ divide. THe luterans should of NEVER apologized for Luther's thoughts and writing on the Jews. He was NOT anti Semite for truthful criticizing the problems they were making with the Christians. Semite is a language and a term they made so not to be criticized and it sure works

[@roseekt4799]

Tnx Dr.God bless you.💒

[@MosesMedinaE]

Prior Lutheran here. Thank you for your story! My family and I converted in 2018.

[@luchiniguss8191]

AMEN. Glory to the Lord.

[@williamcordasco945]

The Jews didn’t accept Christ either, in person or as the Messiah in the pages of Scripture, theirs being Masoretic whereas ours is the older LXX. Further, as a former Lutheran, I am aware of how Luther wanted also to excise St. James’ epistle from the canon, let alone Maccabees, et al. I am not putting down my former roots, and was quite content there, but knew that something was amiss. A story most Protestant converts to Orthodoxy would share. Point is, the Bible was written under the guidance of the Fathers, and has become an “evergreen” document ever since, undergoing multiple translations depending upon the agendae du jour, e.g., sola scriptura. The Bible didn’t establish the church. It developed alongside the Didache and the oral tradition of the church.

[@kylie3232]

What suggestions do you have for a person looking for an Orthodox Church but from Anglo English background. It is quite unfamiliar and many are in native languages. I’m in Sydney Australia. Thanks

[@ProtectingVeil]

Thanks for reaching out...may God continue to guide your steps! I don't know the situation in Australia (as I am located in the USA), but I would encourage you to visit as many Orthodox parishes as you can! It is good to get a broad sense of Orthodoxy...and in the process, I'm sure that you will be drawn to at least one parish in particular. The language/cultural barrier can appear challenging at first, but once you go deeper into the faith you will find that it becomes less and less important. I lived in Greece for eight years and learned to be very much at peace in any Orthodox church, regardless of language or culture...

[@IOANNIS-l7r]

THE FIRST REACTION OF LUTHER WAS ORTHODOX AND WE DON T UNDERSTAND WHY HE ISN T ACCEPT ORTHODOXY?BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THE REFORMATION WAS NOT TO CREATE AN OTHER CHURCH.

[@kyleelsbernd7566]

Dr. Jenkins, thank you for sharing your journey. I grew up Catholic but attended a Lutheran ELCA college. Many good aspects to the Lutheran way but your video underscores the ultimately shaky foundation that Protestantism is erected upon.

[@franciscolaureano7703]

Protestants -muh sola scriptura muh sola fide-adjust Canon as needed .

[@EricBryant]

Luther made his own Bible (Bibel) and his own, ahistorical canon. That says it all.

[@tjkhan4541]

At 3:00, I would respectfully observe that the Jewish people themselves and the author of Maccabees did not consider the Maccabean books to be Scripture.

[@larrydewein]

Oops! I guess they did not know that!!

[@nathanmorales9584]

@@tjkhan4541 can you explain please?

[@tjkhan4541]

@@nathanmorales9584 in 1st Macabees 9v27 and 14v41, the author says that there was no prophet active at the time, no one revealing or speaking God’s will. This and other books from the Second Temple Period have never been considered canonical by the Jewish people.

[@davidsmohler]

An inspiring testimony, but I was caught off guard with the comment at 6:57, "While I don't have the assurance that I will be saved..." This seems like a non-sequitur, if one has "found the true faith" and therefore stands in contradiction to the Apostle John, in 1 John 5:13, "I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life." Perhaps I misunderstand his comment or point.

[@larrydewein]

Good point! If Orthodoxy doesn't see THAT scriptural point, then it's NOT for me!!

[@srfrg9707]

Hosanna! Lord have mercy on us all sinners. IC XC NI KA

[@mididas2151]

How do you have peace without assurance? Im not opposed to the idea as i am slowly growing in my comfortability with the idea of "fellowship with mystery." Im just not sure what that looks like. I know that much of that has to do with my own history and rearing. Any thoughts in this direction?

[@gwj1961]

Do you know that you will never fall away from the grace of God? Believing in the love of God and having confidence in His mercy is not the same as having a moral certitude that I shall finish the race. St. Paul spoke of discipling himself lest he become disqualified from the race for God. I trust, rest and hope in God, and I am saved in hope. But I must take heed that I stand, lest I fall. Every day I have to say, "Today I start again." My peace comes from knowing that God has set a path before me and given me the means to follow it. Assurance as Calvinists (and their later heirs, our modern day "eternal security" Baptists) meant that we never lived with any doubts, and doubting was a sure sign that you were not actually believing God. I stand with the son of the demoniac: "Lord, I believe. Help Thou my unbelief!"

[@nathanasios]

I recommend the book "Thinking Orthodox" by Dr. Constantinou. She does a good job of talking through this (she also would warn you of internet orthodox folk, which I'm engaging in now). In short, though, I would say: assurance likely means more to the West due to the legal imagery and understanding of salvation that is so often employed. Salvation is not a legal contract. It's not an "in/out" proposition. Neither is it a court case in which a verdict is delivered. Salvation is relational. We draw near to God, we draw away from God. It's not about "earning" something, no merit is involved, it's a relationship of love. God loves us and reveals Himself to us (and, in Christ, even enters into death for us), we respond to this love by drawing close to Him. But we could (and do!) draw away from Him, as well. This is what repentance is about: a change of our hearts and our minds, to reorient ourselves, so that we are always trying to draw close to Him, to love Him, to be in relationship with Him, according to the way in which He's revealed to us and leads us. This will continue into eternity. The assurance that I have is that God is always the Father who calls me back to Him. He never rejects me. When I turn to Him, He is there to receive me, again and again. And there is great peace in this. But I do not know myself fully, so I cannot say what the last day will be like for me. My hope is in the Lord. That's the only place it can be. Think of the parable of the final judgment. Those who believe themselves worthy are not ("Lord, when did we see you hungry?" That which you did not do to the least of these...). Those who think themselves completely unworthy discover that they are worthy. Lack of assurance is not the same thing as fear or angst or anything like that. It is simply to say: I do not presume to know who I am. I only know who God is, as He has revealed Himself to us in the Lord. And my hope and trust is in Him. This is a very simple way of speaking, of course. The Orthodox faith is one in which our entire lives are given to working out this great mystery and drawing nearer to Him.

[@tonyvasquezjr8105]

No assurance of being Saved? How sad, that’s not the gospel, Jesus said “I go prepare a place for you” John 14, it must be frightening to not know if you belong to Christ or not.

[@ProtectingVeil]

Not at all, "perfect love casts out fear." "Assurance of salvation" is a modern innovation.

[@tonyvasquezjr8105]

@@ProtectingVeilSadly I don’t see your narrative anywhere in Scripture, Jesus said he came to sele and Save that which was lost… He said “it is finished” while being on the cross for a reason, just some food for thought!

[@larrydewein]

@@ProtectingVeil For God so loved the world that He gave His only- begotten Son THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE! (JOHN 3:16) And this is the record, THAT GOD HAS GIVEN TO US ETERNAL LIFE (ASSURANCE!), and this life is in His Son. He that HAS THE SON HAS LIFE (ASSURANCE!) and he that HAS NOT THE SON OF GOD HAS NOT LIFE! (I John 5: 11,12)

[@things6805]

The Jews never accepted Maccabees as scripture to begin with. That is not a sound argument. See "why protestant bibles are smaller."

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

They did, then they altered their canon after Christ. It wouldn't be in the septuagint if they "never accepted it as scripture." Kinda of idiotic to get your scriptural canon from people who vehemently reject Christ and define themselves by their rejection of Christ. All protestant bibles use the masoretic texts for their old testament texts from about 800-900 AD. Absolutely insane nonsense.

[@sacrecur7352]

🙏

[@Blaisesongs]

Peace but no assurance??? Hmmm. Been exploring Orthodoxy 7 years. I’m a tough sell.

[@virginialopezrey6860]

Just a thought: Who can have assurance, when none of us really knows the mind of God?

[@bobtaylor170]

@@virginialopezrey6860 , the Bible, which is the Word of God, gives us that assurance: whosoever believes in Jesus Christ as the unique Son of God has everlasting life. Orthodoxy will always be a tough sell to anyone who understands that most important fact.

[@gwj1961]

YRB, I was 14 years before I finally became a catechumen, first just reading, but then by 1990, fully immersed (was received into the Church in 2000). Assurance as a Calvinist dogma means that I have no doubts, otherwise, I am not practicing faith, and am I then really of the elect. I live in hope, and that is why I have peace, trusting not in myself nor my own strength, but in God, who raises the dead.

[@doublecutnut753]

@@bobtaylor170 yeah but how can anyone be sure they believe? Believe exactly what? Is my idea of faith correct? Is my idea of grace correct? Is my belief correct? What exactly do I have to believe about Jesus to be saved? The evangelical answers to all those questions seem so vague. Yet, you have to be able to answer those. If I really believe that I am unworthy of God's grace, but still choose to worship Him because He is supremely worthy of all praise. I can be okay with not having assurance. Even if I do not receive salvation, God is worthy of my praise and worship.

[@ElfAsura]

@@doublecutnut753 Excellent, I think this is the heart of Orthodoxy, that Christ has loved humanity and sacrificed Himself for it and we who acknowledge that are His worshippers though we leave final judgment of our souls to Him.

[@bibleblessingsbypastoratha4230]

That is not a solid argument, AND i AM GREEK

[@br.m]

What is this man even talking about? Sounds like he is saying nothing at all.

[@larrydewein]

@@br.m Bingo! My exact thoughts as well!

[@romandaigle455]

The only problem is the doctrines of the state of the dead, the Bible is very clear that the dead lie in rest and the dead know nothing. There goes the dogmas of Mary out the window. Praying to “saints” was never Biblical either( only one intercessor, Jesus Christ). Besides the saints are sleeping in their grave also. The second doctrine of an eternal burning Hell is not Biblical either. The Earth will be cleansed with fire at the final judgment ( not a place of eternal torment), just like the Earth was cleansed with water during the flood. Finally the 10 Commandments. Read the 4th one , read it carefully. It’s starts with “remember “. Obviously this precious Commandment was forgotten. The Biblical Sabbath is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. It was and always will be the 7th day. Sunday is a counterfeit, remember Satan wants worship.

[@jessedaughtry4433]

Y’all need Christian identity. Once you know it’s your race that is of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob not the “Jews” of today. How people can read the gospel of John and not see how Christ rebukes them fully. He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Who were the Germanic Europeans who had migrated from Assyrian captivity from media.

[@romainlettuce118]

Not even close

[@alec1430]

@Jesse Daughtry. You are correct! Jews of today are not gods chosen people. The Israelites are! The state of 'Israel', is an illegal Jewish state that has forced and extradited the Palestinians from their land. The Jews mocked Jesus, and didn't accept him as their messiah, for they had chosen to follow their own traditions. (Mark 7:7). In the Talmud, Jesus is blasphemed numerous times throughout. Gittin 56A-Gittin 56B are good examples of this.

[@eg4848]

So dumb

[@ConLosTerroristas]

This has nothing to do with the topic of the video, go spread your propaganda elsewhere jessedaughtry4433

[@guvnc1]

The Apostle Paul wrote that we are justified by faith and not by works lest any man should boast. I don't understand why it is more Christian to go back to the second and third centuries for inspiration from Byzantine culture when we can go back to the first century and read the gospel writers for inspiration and direction?

[@joseortegabeede8233]

because from the 2nd century Christians we can both know the spiritual life that was passed down by the apostles and also the doctrine that they did not teach specifically via letters

[@br.m]

Well the orthodox like catholic church are a big business. They want you to join and go on pilgrimage to worship idols and dead men's bones and relics. It's just a money making business to them. You are right and so was Luther all we need is the Bible. They also worship Mary like the catholics do. The other day on KZbin I saw orthodox church service dedicated to singing songs about Jesus' foreskin! Give me a break! I don't understand why many Christians go back to Paul for inspiration when we can go back to Jesus for inspiration and direction? Paul was taking the Gospel to people who have never heard any of it before and have no Bible to read. We have the advantage of owning a Bible that tells us the Gospel in four ways. On more than one occasion Jesus said that all we have to do is believe. We shouldn't need Paul to tell us that.

[@wessbess]

Staw man arguments