The Problem with the Brotherhood of Steel - Fallout 4 Analysis

[@kingofthegrill]

>Jason Bright reaches the Far Beyond >a planet a million light years away >it's occupied by the Brotherhood of Steel, the Enclave, Deathclaws, Super Mutants(there was a bottle of FEV in space), Radroaches, Dogmeat, and a 50s greaser gang, they all drink Nuka Cola

[@manboy4720]

>myface.jpg

[@Welsh7133]

There are raiders there, too

[@TheTSense]

The "Far Beyond" is just a Ghoul City in the NCR many miles west, but still good comment

[@kingofthegrill]

@@TheTSense that's not confirmed, it could be Camp Searchlight for all we know

[@Mogget01]

For whatever reason, they had a bunch of bottle caps inside their rockets, and now they use them as currency for some reason

[@robertbeisert3315]

A whole country full of storytelling opportunities, and it's always the BoS.

[@kieranadamson3224]

Even as a massive BoS fan I have to agree wholeheartedly. They were clearly just put in because they're the Power Armor faction, it would've been cooler if the Minutemen got that extra time for development to make them a better overall faction.

[@utes5532]

That would require Emil to have an original idea in his little head. Although we saw what happens when Emil has to come up with original stories with Starfield...

[@WackyIraqi777]

I never understood this. Why not create a whole new faction? They can have their own power armor.

[@Mirthful_Midori]

@@utes5532 Even his ideas for new factions suck. He completely forgot to give any kind of motive for why the Institute does what they do. The Railroad are clowns, too.

[@kingofthegrill]

Same thing I feel about super mutants. Every single one of New Vegas' DLCs dropped a new kind of horrible fate for human beings and a new mutant enemy that was cool and original: Spore Carriers, Tunnelers, Lobotomites, Ghost People. All proof you don't need stupid FEV Mutants jammed into every game.

[@cityofsiege4244]

Aint it funny how you can bring nick valentine into the airship, walk around with him, and listen to the elders speech with him right beside you? And the only thing they do is insult him?

[@hideakiakio6698]

At least if you take Veronica to NCR bases she is wearing rags to blend in they don't even do that with Nick

[@BaconMinion]

It's more hilarious with Curie, because they don't even know she's a synth and she approves of them... even when Maxon is talking about how synths are an abomination and must be killed. "Curie liked that."

[@skipercrac]

@@hideakiakio6698 im pretty sure you can make her wear power armour and get away with it

[@TurKlack]

"That only shows how much they respect the Player Character." - Oxhorn, probably.

[@rcblazer]

I asked my roommate "You're a Brotherhood of Steel Knight. You've been assigned by the Elder to guard the airport where the Prydwen is docked. One day, some random wastelander walks up to you and asks "What is this place?" you tell her "This is a military installation, you need to leave now." and she replies "I'm familiar with these military installations. My husband was in the military." What do you do? His answer? "I don't care, now get out of here!" I will say now my roommate knows little to nothing about the lore of Fallout, and his answer makes way more sense than what actually happens in Fallout 4.

[@streptococo4735]

@@nisonatic Remember how in the original Fallout you needed to do a literal suicide mission to join the BoS? The only reason they allow you in is because you proved yourself so useful it would be a riot to not allow you after what you did.

[@adlerz3191]

A similar thing happens in New vegas when persuading an ncr soldier guarding Kimballs virtibird to pass by simply saying "pretty please" which could lead to his assassination if you're on the legions side during the quest

[@BrettCaton]

You can show up with a synth, supermutant or ghoul, and they don't do anything. They would take nick prisoner at the very least. Maybe he knows where the Institute is and is lying. Maybe they can hack his brain and bypass the failsafe. They would at least try.

[@frsa67]

​@@adlerz3191something something Theoretical Degree in Physics

[@themanwithnoname1839]

And the bethesda cultists, er uh fans will ridicule you for saying that to boot......

[@Mikazuchireborn]

Fitting, ain't it? Bethesda already reduced Super Mutants into a bunch of mindless Orks, so naturally they made the Brotherhood into knockoff Space Marines.

[@Zorothegallade-rpg]

It makes sense. The Emperor forbids the existance of machines capable of independent thought.

[@manboy4720]

orkz orkz orkz orkz orkz

[@B-zk9bt]

I hate how they butchered Super Mutants, they were such a diverse species and now they’re all just bumbling idiots.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@B-zk9bt They were never a "diverse species".

[@NeoCapsule]

@@dutchpatriot17 and you’ve never played Fallout 1, 2, or New Vegas.

[@TheSektorz]

10:33 this is comedy gold right here -- Emil Pagliacci writing at its finest - "I'm no stranger to your blimp, my husband was in the military, and I wasn't, cuz I'm a lawyer who stayed at home." - "OMG WITH UR *****EXPERIENCE***** YOU'LL FIT RIGHT IN THE BROTHERHOOD!"

[@stubbsie1038]

Would’ve been funnier if he got his wish and made it so you could become the leader

[@TheSektorz]

@@stubbsie1038 Yeah I would've loved to see how he would write the brotherhood just accepting us as the leader, after we killed its leader over a synth. Makes perfect sense

[@BaconMinion]

I like how they don't even question how Nate was in the military. They just accept it. And you know, how would they have reacted if they learned he was in the US military before the bombs dropped. Would they see him as a brother because of this? Would they dislike him because he was part of the machine that helped destroy the world? Would they make him disavow the US government because they broke off from them?

[@maestrofeli4259]

@@BaconMinion maybe they would have thought nate was enclave, after all, that's the only group with any memory of the pre-war military (besides the brotherhood themselves)

[@utes5532]

And not a single follow-up question. "What military?" Would have been a pretty obvious response

[@themanwithnoname1839]

Cant wait for fallout 5 where you gotta find your sons father

[@PaulieMcCoy]

Your son's father's family heirloom jelly mold

[@dotfflan]

Get that father out of here!!

[@SelectDevotee68]

24:38

[@kingofthegrill]

Fallout 5 you'll play as a 35 year old man named George who has a wife and kids and you'll have to go on a quest to join the Brotherhood of Steel and save them from the Enclave and the Super Mutants because that's what your character wants.

[@GA-br8wj]

You will have to find your wife´s boyfriend in Fallout 5

[@WinterHE]

Emilio: Apparently I can't write to save my life. That is correct Emilio, that is correct. Just like it was said in yesterday's STAG, yes, Bethesda wants to erase everything iconic about Fallout and replace it with their own vision to make Fallout "their" IP. They are sick of people reminding them Fallout had a past pre-Bethesda and they really hope the serie will help to erase all of Fallout's past.

[@kyosokutai]

Ah yes, this worked so well for Disney's star wars and people totally don't think it's just absolute *shit* .

[@XavierGoncalves89]

I know that bethesda generally doesn't learn from mistakes nor accepts feedback, and with the absolute failure that is starfield, next games will just double down on the shit

[@manboy4720]

[Speech 10/50] [Intelligence 1/5] you... you just gotta... be really smart... to GET the writing.

[@gottfriedosterbach3907]

To be fair Bethesda was first which goes to show put a megalomaniac narcissist in charge and the course is set. Disney just collects them.

[@tiggytheimpaler5483]

I honestly can't tell if it's Todd himself or the gaggle of turds who work just beneath him. Its kind if liie how one of the problems with Bethesda after FA3 is how the investors make sure that what should be a small team venture is "improved" by passing it through all the other companies under their umbrella. it's all corporate law bullshit

[@hugehappygrin]

It usually takes me a long time to realize something. I just realized that the BoS in the series IGNORED a piece of tech that even they didn't have: the fusion generator.

[@surlyunicorn9461]

They were sending recruits to bully farmers for food and then destroyed an Institute agricultural project that would have provided them with all the food they could need.

[@65firered]

The near limitless potential that the Institute has... AND THEY BLEW IT UP.

[@BitterBlack]

Blowing up the Institute really screams of a classic Bethesda writing themselves into a corner moment. "WOW wouldn't it be cool if this faction of scientists that posses technology that surpasses even the most advanced pieces of tech from pre-war corporations were the villains? Oh fuck wait, if any of the factions got even a fraction of this technology to use, the status quo of the wasteland we've decided to keep going for over 200 years would crumble and then we couldn't have Fallout be post-apocalyptic, fuck fuck fuck "

[@duncanharrell5009]

One of the reasons I’ll practically always side with the institute: Only faction in all East Coast lore PROGRESSING!!!

[@TheBreakingBenny]

​@@duncanharrell5009 We must shut down the synth production, but also leave the Institute intact.

[@AurelieAris]

I was talking to my friend while watching the show and I mentioned how the BoS really doesn't need to be in everything fallout when talking about how all Fallout is now is a checklist of references with terrible writing and he told me the BoS kinda have to be in Fallout and are the face of the franchise. I realize Bethesda has really done irreparable damage to this series' identity, it's WHY I love New Vegas so much man, I just want this franchise to try NEW things more often and not remain stagnant forever with the same exact factions, stories without even improving on the writing.

[@surlyunicorn9461]

Sadly. Power armor, bobbleheads, and deathclaws everywhere. That’s Bethesda Fallout. All 50 states will just be cookie cutter versions of one another with terrain and weather changes. The possibilities for so many weird creatures and societies out in the wasteland are endless and yet they distill it down to the same thing every time.

[@kyosokutai]

Your friend would not know what the face of the franchise was if it so socked him in the teeth.

[@Hypnotically_Caucasian]

I'm so glad New Vegas was my first Fallout game

[@MLPDethDealr32]

more reasons i add in mods that bring back the Enclave. Im even working on an SFM animation that has the Enclave track down and wipe out BoS outposts.

[@steveharrison76]

The face of the franchise was always Vault Boy, I’d have thought. Before 3, I mean. It’s only the face of the franchise because they made it the face of the franchise. All the stuff you got with the game back in the nineties was vault boy-ed up.

[@deefelt]

They went from Power (armor) Rangers in 3, to this, to the fucking Crusaders from Fallout the Frontier in the 110% CANON show

[@AcceptGamingDKD]

Fallout 3 Brotherhood was a splinter faction of the main brotherhood. The Brotherhood of the traditional ways were the ones in the red armor. Its been explained that fallout 4s maxton united both groups into a new stronger Brotherhood that combines there hate for outsiders with a willingness to take in outsiders so there ranks do not dwindle like they once did. However they normally only take in children so they can indoctrinate them. In the show this brotherhood that was already moving back west meets up with the new vegas brotherhood and combine under the new rules. Thus the prydwin and the rules shown in the show

[@rcblazer]

@@AcceptGamingDKD Don't most Couriers wipe out the New Vegas Brotherhood? If you work for Mr. House or the Legion, you pretty much have to.

[@teslashark]

The show? In the show they've absorbed Legion remnants.

[@CantusTropus]

​@@AcceptGamingDKDThere are explanations, just not very good explanations. Moreover, it still ends up diluting the Brotherhood's identity.

[@sjfs231]

@@rcblazer new vegas is not cannon in the show, otherwise the ncr would have complete control of California and there wouldn't even be a brotherhood chapter left there (they have already almost completely destroyed the BOS by FNV).

[@kingofthegrill]

Jokes in West Coast Fallout: "am I playing Virgil to your Dante right now?" Jokes in East Coast Fallout: "haha, Gary! Gary! Gary! GARY! HAHA HE SAID GARY AGAIN, LOOK! GARY GARY GARY! HAHA GET IT, HIS NAME IS GARY, IT'S SILLY, IT'S A FUNNY NAME, GARY! HAHA, GARY! GARY!"

[@manboy4720]

gary was a more well-developed character than anyone in the main story.

[@Xahnel]

"POKEMON IS POPULAR, RIGHT?"

[@danielsurvivor1372]

OG Fallout Enjoyers be like: "Get that BOS OUTA here"

[@BurghezulDjentilom]

NEEDS MORE JELLY MOLD

[@PaulieMcCoy]

@@BurghezulDjentilom *AGED LIKE FINE JELLY MOLD, GET IT OUTTA HERE!*

[@kevo-o-o]

KEEP MY OLD LORE OUT YO GAMES MOUTH!

[@samwellcheck562]

Jelius Moldon was the last real Elder of the BoS, change my mind.

[@manboy4720]

what a load of BOS!

[@ZuluZizo]

E-Mail: "We will not be restricted to something written 20yrs ago." Also, E-Mail: "My OC was actually in FO1 HOW KOOL!? Nevermind, me lied :P Not everything me say is true"

[@highwaystar4518]

“you bet your ass the brotherhood are in hawaii” dude you just murdered todd holy cow

[@kingofthegrill]

BoS philosphy in 1, 2, NV: "We need to prevent this nuclear Armageddon from happening again." BoS philosophy in 4: LET'S NUKE CAMBRIDGE OMG OMG NUKE IT NUKE CAMBRIDGE

[@hugehappygrin]

Yes, mini nukes would be treason to even have in your possession. The BoS should be ,actively, dismantling every nuke that they find, not using them. Want to keep higher tech out of the hands of "wastelanders"? Don't use it yourself.

[@literallyme1732]

BoS philosophy in 1,2, NV "we need to prevent nuclear armageddon by uhmm slowly dying" BoS philosophy in 3: "we're the goody two shoes" BoS philosophy in 4: "let God sort them out"

[@bickboose9364]

LMAO THIS 🤣

[@CasualChairEnjoyer]

​@@literallyme1732Brotherhood Outcasts: "Fuck you, give us your toaster."

[@siegfriedhiryu4660]

Didn't they also nuke Shady Sands in the series? With good writing this could be a good analysis of why even well intentioned groups can worsen without vigilance and oversight.

[@BaconMinion]

You know, the T-60 would have worked so much better as a post FO3 BoS invention, rather than a prewar thing. Showing that they're advancing as a faction, technology wise. But then, that would be against their FO4 version, which is allergic to new technology. The west coast BoS would have tried, at all costs, to take the Institute, like how Father Elijah tried to hold HELIOS One.

[@MLPDethDealr32]

i found a mod that fixes that. It makes it so that the T 60 was created after the Brotherhood's defeat of the Enclave at Adams Air force base.

[@Gorbz]

How you join the Brotherhood in the four mainline games: 1. You get sent on a quest to a site so radioactive, that it is an almost guarentee you will die. When you return, they hold up their end of the bargain. 2. You don't. But you are allowed in to one bunker, if you can steal virtibird plans from an Enclave military base. 3. You join by proxy of following Dr Li to the Citadel. 4. You help Danse get a transmitter, and are invited to join before they even know it it works. My guess is 5 will have you walk up to a training camp and just getting recruited on the spot.

[@BaconMinion]

NV literally just has you make friends with a woman and she lets you in because she's your friend. That or the bomb collar. I like that one better. Much as I love Veronica as a follower, I hate how she's just so open about being in the BoS and lets you in. I get that she wants them to change and all, but really, I think it was a step too far to have her just let you come with her. And how they let you in with her.

[@ZuluZizo]

www.youtube.com/@Gorbz Joining Brotherhood Of Cringe in Fallout 5: $50

[@CantusTropus]

One step further, joining will be plot mandatory 😅

[@t1czer]

You come to a location and see: *Location discovered: BoS bootcamp* *You've joined BoS* *BoS promoted you* *You've became new Elder*

[@Gorbz]

@@t1czer By virtue of being the player character, you are instantly in charge! ...now go do a bunch of menial radiant quests for them.

[@lordspaz88]

10:40 ah yes, the classically isolationist tech cult with a superiority complex are "always looking to add a few more brothers and sisters to our ranks"

[@wetrix2119]

"We are xenophobic isolationists, so let's accept every irradiated wastelander into our ranks! How else are we gonna support our totally-not-retconned imperialist ambitions?"

[@BaconMinion]

This is why I say that Tactics should have been canon and the FO3 BoS was an extension of them. Since the Tactics BoS was founded on a schism based on accepting new people into the fold. That and also because they used airships in the intro, which would explain the airship in FO4.

[@mateuszmodzelewski1213]

10:34 "My husband was in the military". Paladin: Wow I guess with your experience you will fit in with the Brotherhood. In Bethesda Fallout if you get married to someone you just get all their memories transfered to your brain. Also love how this Paladin didn't question which army, because there are no nation states in the east coast as far as I know and the only factions with actual militaries are BoS and Enclave. It's the little things like this that show how little Bethesda care about their writing actually making sense. Edit: I just realised that if the soldier were to actually ask that then Nora/Nate would have to go on and explain how they are a pre war person. At which point he would have to weight what's more likely, that they're telling the truth or just a synth with implanted memories.

[@CantusTropus]

Plus the fact that the BoS HATE the US military due to being deserters from it. They should be at least a little bit skeptical towards US soldiers! Nate basically said that he's with the Bad Guys from the Brotherhood's Founding mythology.

[@WisteriaDrake]

Yeah, for a game about the paranoia of Synths, there's nowhere near enough people who doubt your "frozen in time" backstory and assume you're a synth. It's only Crazy Myrna and DiMA.

[@badjuju8624]

Or that they're just some schizo wastelander or a chem addict, there's no real reason why that BOS trooper should have even given Nate/Nora the time of day unless they had some unquestionable proof, and even then the trooper should've signaled or radioed his commanding officer for advice.

[@duncanharrell5009]

@@WisteriaDrake That and the fact your Pre-War person doesn't react AT ALL to everything or bring up differences between Pre-War Commonwealth and Post-War Wasteland is such a fucking missed opportunity. I wouldn't mind a Nate/Nora choice that acts like Commander Shepherd JUST to see more actual reactions or observations about life in the wasteland vs Pre-War America. Have Nate go to Fort Strong and say "Oh, hey, I used to be stationed here when I wasn't sent to Anchorage. I know the way around." or have Nora when visiting the Hubris Comics giggle and say "Nate woulda loved seeing this place now, where he can take all the comics that're left."

[@GTAVictor9128]

They asked me if I knew physics. I said I had a theoretical degree in physics. They said: "Welcome aboard!"

[@commanderknee3821]

To be honest, Danse is such a fucking good idea, but since this is a bethesda game, no matter how hard I try to ignore the inconsistencies, the game STILL reminds me of them every single time...

[@TheSoliization]

That prewar guy's voice acting is so funny to me. He doesn't care at all about the end of the world.

[@utes5532]

Game dev hack: get the unpaid intern to voice act throwaway NPCs

[@arifhossain9751]

The Brotherhood has been Bethesda's favorite child for decades, seeing as how they've been favored in every main and spinoff Fallout title. And THIS is what they did with them. Edit: there IS special dialogue with both Brother Henri and Mother Isolde if you joined up with the Atomites in Far Harbor, both making things easier for you as they will just give you what you want cos you're "one of them". Which is the bare minimum of reactivity to your actions I guess.

[@robertbeisert3315]

I'm done with the Enclave, BoS, and Atomists. I want new factions, or at least to see the Followers again.

[@maestrofeli4259]

@@robertbeisert3315 yeah the followers + new vegas khans (the ones from fo1 and 2 are just generic raiders) are something I would like to see in the next west coast game (one of the endings says they formed an empire in the northwest

[@DJWeapon8]

​@@maestrofeli4259Fudgemuppet did an extensive video for what their Ideal Fallout 5 would be like. One of the major Factions is a settled and developed Great Khans that rules the plains of Wyoming. You should check it out.

[@pantonearqm2791]

Bethesda tried 3 games and 1 show to make Brotherhood right. And yet they failed each time, I miss my tech-cultists...

[@maestrofeli4259]

tbh the brotherhood has always been kinda dumb and lame

[@GROOT0404]

The Brotherhood in the show is terrible imo. That's not even a Brotherhood they got there. They are so different from everything we see before that

[@65firered]

And it gets progressively worse with each iteration. I want to say it can't be worse than the show, but if anything has been proven it's that, there is no bottom.

[@robertbeisert3315]

​@maestrofeli4259 which was part of the lore early on, if you think of it.

[@kyosokutai]

@@maestrofeli4259 Well yes, that's the point, they're a isolationist group of techno-worshippers who descended from deserters of the US army, restructuring themselves from the ground up to distance themselves further, who refuse to share anything but the most basic technologies, instead of trying to repair the damage of the war, like the Followers of the Apocalypse does. A order of insular knightly monks, who sit in their bunkers while the world passes them by. They are dumb. And their fate was to dissapear into irrelevance. Then Bethesda happened and went "hurr durr power armor am coool".

[@spouwnerring]

Joseph Anderson puposed a rewrite where Proctor Quinlin is the Synth and altered the data on the Holo-Disk to avoid getting his own cover blown and to frame Danse to sow chaos.

[@johngleeman8347]

That would have been neat. He is quite a bastard of a character.

[@Scrublord641]

Where can you find Joseph Anderson now btw?

[@ericchung3177]

The fact that Vergil can cure himself of supermutantism and outright say he’s working on making a generalized cure for the rest of the world and the Brotherhood couldn’t give less of a shit is so mind boggling to me. Just a very basic “Hmm I guess we’ll keep an eye on him”. That should tell you all you need to know how shallow and retarded the faction has gotten over the years. They’re just watered down Space Marines now.

[@katiemckinney9456]

You'd think they'd be doing everything they could to provide Vergil with the resources he needs to create and then mass produce a cure. If they can cure Supermutants and return them to being humans, then that 'eradicates the Supermutant threat' AND saves the lives of those who would otherwise be killed for being Supermutants. But noooooo, we gotta kill all of them even if some Supermutants have still kept their minds and don't mean people any harm.

[@genogamma13]

Fallout 4 Brotherhood feels like someone vaguely looked at the Warhammer 40K Wikia for the Imperium of Man for 20 minutes before work and went to town designing a rip off.

[@vgamedude9811]

It would actually be better if they just copied the adeptus mechanicus principles on holding tech from laypeople minus the transhumanism

[@genogamma13]

@vgamedude9811 then we'd also get cyborg paladins

[@SalusFuturistics]

Sadly Danse being a "loyal" Synth to the Brotherhood, is still overwritten by the broken Mask Incident. He could flip out any Moment, and that's the Danger he poses.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

Nora be pulling the "it's _our_ rank _we_ deployed" bs

[@egoborder3203]

I don't think there's any better symbol of how incompetent Emil and Bethesda are than their tortured overuse of the fact that "atom" and "Adam" sound alike in English

[@Kattbirb]

But you see, Emil was trying to writ a sort of Reverse Catholic Church that worships nukes. So it makes sense.

[@kingofthegrill]

It makes sense though. During the plague people worshipped diseased rats, during covid people worshipped pangolin and bats. So logically they would worship nuclear bombs. Oh wait, that's not true, it's stupid and makes no sense.

[@kingofthegrill]

​@@KattbirbConsidering what they do on Far Harbor it's more likely Judaism or Islam

[@Kattbirb]

@kingofthegrill I was referencing something Emil said about the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion. Emil has a habit of making things look like a church. Over and over and over...

[@kingofthegrill]

@Kattbirb Oh right, I forgot about that. Yeah, Emil definitely strikes me as the kind of guy who can't write fiction without tying it into the real life and his personal opinions therein. He's definitely the type who would try to figure out which Elder Scrolls races are which real life races.

[@Zorothegallade-rpg]

Meanwhile in Fallout 5 BoS knight: "Freeze! What wretched, diabolical device is that?" Random scientist: "It's a crucible! It's used to add carbon to iron to make steel! It's simple, reall-" BoS knight: "DESTROY THAT AT ONCE! SUCH TECHNOLOGY IS A DANGER AND MUST BE PURGED!" Scientist: "Wait, aren't you called the Brotherhood of St-" (Scientist gets instantly killed by nuclear crossbows, somehow)

[@danielsurvivor1372]

25:53 In a good Fallout game, like NV, you would be able to convince Elder Maxon to change his mind not just because of charisma check but also via changing several key members minds or finding enough support like this. Maybe the mechanic Ingra could also support Danse and some one else who's named NPC and some no names but nooo, Bethesda doesn't care

[@reksraven]

OR you can pass the series of speech checks without changing the minds of others (maybe even killing characters close to maxson) a la Legate Lanius. Look I love New Vegas to death and think that fo4 and 3 are not even close, but let's not act like New Vegas writing was immaculate.

[@_MadRat_]

The problem with Bethesda's Brotherhood? It's never earned. This is actually very similar to the situation with Luke Skywalker in the The Last Jedi abomination. It's not the problem that they made Luke a hermit - it's that they did a complete 180 on his character without required building up for that. The same goes for BoS. You can't make them someone completely different without doing the required legwork. You can't change the surface and claim that everything beneath also changed. It's as if you wear the clothes of your friend and start saying that you're actually him.

[@surlyunicorn9461]

It’s a shame because I enjoyed the basic experience of being in the Brotherhood. It felt like a real faction in terms of basic structure. I wasn’t in charge (or being told I was command when I truly wasn’t) and I gained ranks in a chain of command and had backup that could actually be useful at times. Unfortunately the writing makes the BOS’ motivations and actions all over the place and their final actions against the Institute are the most ridiculous of all. Emil just thinks wouldn’t that be cool and shoehorns something in without any regard for a larger framework that needs to make sense. Parts of this game could have been enjoyable if they were left in more capable hands.

[@AcceptGamingDKD]

People forget the original Brotherhood of Steel send you out on a Death mission as your first mission from them knowing full well you won't survive. They are genuinely surprised if you make it back. These are exactly the type of people who will hold no feelings for your death if they believe you to be a synth. Even if they fought by your side. They are portayed exactly how they always been and 3 was the one where they changed. It was the Brotherhood outcasts who held up the old ways. Maxton reunited the two and made them stronger and more focused. But that outcast mindset of "if you're not one of us you're nothing " remains. Even NV had them drugging you and slapped a bomb collar on you. These have never been a group that allows anyone other then themselves to be in charge of tech. New advanced tech is to be destroyed, old tech is to be gathered, researched, and destroyed if deemed to dangerous. The Brotherhood are not good people and they have never been good people.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

Cope

[@kevo-o-o]

I won't let you turn this giant killer robot into a weapon of war!

[@OuroborosChoked]

Hold the fucking phone... 24:08 Quinlan says he wouldn't miss a synth any sooner than he'd miss a *transistor radio.* Transistors were never invented in the Fallout universe! They use fucking vacuum tubes! God, EVERY TIME I expose myself to Bethesda's writing, I uncover a new layer of just how shitty it is...

[@MrBoxen]

This has been debunked already, since Fallout 2 Transistors have existed

[@molassesman4066]

The platnium chip is a transitor They exist they just never went into mass production due to being discovered extremely late and while mr handys did have them the world ended before they beat out vacuum tubes

[@simonnachreiner8380]

@@MrBoxen Citation would be appreciated

[@waterloo32594]

@@MrBoxenI’m pretty sure Bethesda retcons transistors, and went full vacuum tubes only in current cannon. If I can find were I read it I’ll edit it in. Edit: transistors show up twice in FO3, three times in FO4, and twice in FO76. So they do exist in FO, but aren’t common.

[@BrettCaton]

Codsworth leaves if you are not moral. Therefore he has developed a personality. The best explanation is that the robots are basically uploaded humans whose minds are stripped back to the rudimentary level, and who go insane or become people if they go long enough without a mindwipe. This explains why the one in the classroom of diamond city can fall in love despite the testimony of Curie that she had little or no emotions as a robot. As far as I know, that's the only robot to experience romantic love. Is Kleo lying about being a woman or do they consider themselves female? They don't seem insane. It might simply be they found it a good tool to manipulate humans with, or they might genuinely see themselves as a woman, and might pursue romance with a certain ghoul if they could.

[@t1czer]

Hey, robots can rarely fall in love But they can make good lovers. Fisto ❤

[@chainedsharkmedia2699]

Fallout 3 did introduce some things about Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel such as Elder Lyons past, the Brotherhood Outcasts, and there were members who still stayed in the path of the Brotherhood of Steel traditions. Though yes, they did bring wastelanders to join in but it was out of desperation and lack of manpower due to the Outcasts, lead by Henry Casdin, leaving Lyons after Lyons showed sympathy to the wastelanders who were getting killed by super mutants. Still, the problems still remain on how in the world the Brotherhood got there. I can kind of understand the Enclave since they have advanced technology and they had cells in the Capital Wasteland for a while but the Brotherhood...that's long ass way to get to DC. It is mentioned that Lyons Brotherhood crossed the Pitt but it never explains how. :/ Also, Bethesda retcons their own lore. In Fallout 3, Madison Li just helped with power issue. The original designer is lost in the sands of time while Scribe Rothchild would be the one who will most likely be the current head of rebuilding Liberty Prime. Liberty Prime in Fallout 3 was used as a weapon for the Brotherhood of Steel. In Fallout 4, for some reason, Madison Li doesn't work undercover and actually convince scientists to join the Brotherhood of Steel and take over the facilities to preserve technology.

[@Welcometonazoland]

In Fallout 3 Despite my unwavering dedication and pivotal contributions, I find myself overshadowed and underappreciated. Reclaiming the Jefferson Memorial from the Enclave and sacrificing myself to activate the purifier were monumental feats, yet the Brotherhood seems to claim the "Lyon's" share of the credit for these achievements. All I got was a pat on back and I also got promoted to Knight. Even after I told Lyons that "I Don't want to join the Brotherhood".

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Hope one day we'll see your tier list of which Fallout elements did Bethesda butcher the most, S tier being the most butchered aspect. I think BOS has to be the most butchered besides maybe super mutants imho. Literally each time we see em in Bethesda games they act differently, barely any time or events happen and they become completely new people

[@Austinuztantine]

I actually enjoy the brotherhood path, if they where an all new faction I wouldn't have as much of a problem with them, their writing is still a bit dumb and they contract everything the brotherhood is meant to be while they are called the BoS. The idea of clearing out the wasteland of raiders and mutants suits the gameplay loop of fallout 4 well. A fight loot return loop.

[@thetrophygamer3606]

Shame it’s a loop doesn’t last long for me. Dopamine falls off hard with that loop

[@kingofthegrill]

And super Mutants could've been a great enemy if they were original, and the radroaches from the tutorial could've been great if they were original, etc.

[@Elyseon]

Coming in 5: Super Mutant Radroaches!

[@Tr33ba1t]

"Danse has served you for years, how can you not trust him" I don't know, how about we ask Varus the same question regarding his most trusted subordinate

[@Anonymouthful]

Bethesda is where every single porblem with modern Fallout stems from. They tore out bunch of cool concepts and used them to create their own little piece of open world action casualness without putting much thought into anything beyond that. And to think these people professed to be fans of the original CRPGs, yeah sure they are fans of what they thought looked cool and were happy they didnt have to think too hard about coming up with their own cool looking set pieces for their buggy shoot and loot romps. Its just so fucking sad that this had to happen.

[@ancientruinsdiscovery7777]

The brotherhood should still be hiding in their bunkers in California at best or at worst still having a military conflict with NCR in a limited capacity not being fully Across the US in Washington or Boston.

[@AxleMX]

"My husband was in the military." "What military? The minutemen?" "No, the US military before the war." "Yeah, sure lady. Fuck off." That is how it would have realistically went.

[@KaosNova2]

I was honestly confused after watching Frank Horrigan kill Matthew and an entire Brotherhood bunker in Fallout 2 how many Brotherhood were left.

[@NotsilYmerej]

3’s Brotherhood isn’t just “The good guys” wholly and completely, many within it criticize the drastic change, and the Outcasts completely rejected the change. New Vegas showed exactly what you said: “if they don’t change, they’ll die,” and so Lyons’ Brotherhood changed. And 4’s Brotherhood didn’t suddenly hate Ghouls and Mutants out of nowhere, that was true in 3. Fallout 3 gets way too much hate for what it is. You don’t need to hate 3 and 4 to like 1, 2, or NV

[@redwithcoffee619]

I can see where you're coming from plus with the role they took on in 3, it was even stated they began to care about tech less. Still though, they just felt like an enclave 2.0 in the making.

[@duncanharrell5009]

@@redwithcoffee619 Guess Bethesda got sick of the cries of "Why can't we join Enclave!?", cobbled together Lyons' Pride and Orthodox BoS, and said "There! Join the diet Enclave!"

[@redwithcoffee619]

@@duncanharrell5009 yet still we make mods like America Rising, it's like Bethesda can't take a hint

[@henry1531]

If you treat Fallout as a trilogy (1,2, NV) and everything else as Bethesda fanfiction then it's easier to not get upset. Instead of irreparable damage to the series, it's Todd Howard's or Amazon's version of Fallout.

[@Xahnel]

Just call it Toddout.

[@danielbroome5690]

Starwars droids don't ACTUALLY have personalities technically. They are very clearly stated to have such sophisticated programs that they basically pass as having one but it's more that their personalities serve to help them in their original programming. C3PO's prissiness is actually a manufacturing defect in the Droid brain that his company used when they built his line of droids so all 3PO units end up becoming somewhat neurotic. The closest they get to actual personality is that IF you don't mind wipe them for long periods of time, their quirks from their Droid brain become more and more pronounced and their specific quirks end up becoming displayed in more unique ways which pass as personality to a human interacting with them.

[@meaculpabeth]

“With your experience” …as a military wife? Yeah sure, Bethesda, encourage the dependas to claim their husband’s rank.

[@vgamedude9811]

That's another reason to play male. The entire premise of the game makes so much less sense if you're female.

[@piotrd7355]

"A Canticle for Leibowitz" is key to what the Brotherhood of Steel should be.

[@duncanharrell5009]

Exactly! Doubt Emil or Todd or anyone at Bethesda or Amazon studios have read it.

[@stranger7131]

The BoS in 1 and 2 are very much an fringe faction that is unusually armed. They've done very little for how "powerful" they are due to being isolationists. At most in 1 they would help you blow up Mariposa even if bugged to only help out in the first floor, Scribe Vree giving you the autopsy to own the Master in an argument while also being a thing, was not directly the intent of getting the disk narratively, it was just "oh hey, we have this autopsy result of a super mutant that seems interesting, do you want to see it?" sort of thing. In 2 they're literally a bunch of weirdos that stalks you since you showed up on The Den (back when you're literally just a nobody tribal) and then asks you to steal Vertibird plans, they literally have no involvement beyond this. And it's even more baffling that they have a bunker on San Fransisco with a hyper advanced medical AI that is left untouched by the Enclave that dropped by to kill the guy manning the outpost even, ignoring the fact that San Fransisco is right next to Mariposa. But hey, that's probably just the byproduct of 2 being a not quite finished product. Tactics is very much where they've gotten their modern identity of being "wasteland cops", but in Tactics they were depicted as highly pragmatic, very much oppressing the locals and were only praised by them due to the bigger badder threat the Calculator's army/initially super mutant army remnants/raiders presents. Van Buren design docs paints them as to have gone mad, the Maxson bunker Brotherhood, also known as "Circle of Steel" were Stealth Boy junkies, this is not unlike the nightkins on New Vegas but this is Van Buren, so it precedes that, on top of being kicked out of California if I remember. New Vegas only has an entire chapter hiding because they got beaten up by NCR, Elijah while interesting is actually as a concept pretty much a recycled Viktor Presper, the main antagonist of Van Buren, him and Ulysses, but that can be discussed for another time. And other than being destroyed, they have at most the ending choice of being turned into "highway cops confiscating technology". See, by those regards, 3 actually did something interesting, it takes after Tactics to some degree, but unlike the ones depicted there, they had a more altruistic approach to the Capital Wasteland, and even had a splinter faction in the Outcasts consisting of die-hards, while still retaining some grey-ish ideals such as "hating non-feral ghouls" as if I recall the random BoS spawn around The Mall would shoot at The Underworld's gate guard. 3 also explained this characterization with The Pitt, or well tried to, Ashur is kind of interesting but not that much as he's pretty much just a Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now reference for the most part, but eh it's an attempt regardless. I'd agree that 4 pretty much flanderized them as if some sort of a way of fanservice pandering to 1's fanboys though. The writers could've stuck with their guns and made a distinct East Coast brotherhood faction like 3 did, but no, what we get is like a child's idea of what they were like in 1 and 2. Oh there was also Extreme where they tried to invade China I guess but who cares about Extreme.

[@ObservingProcrastinator]

At least Fallout 3 had the Outcasts to show that the core Brotherhood is potentially still tech hoarders and whatnot. Though, it is odd that such a small minority chose to stay to the original ideals of The Brotherhood.

[@surlyunicorn9461]

They did have the cooler armor. Can’t go wrong with black and red. lol

[@MrBoxen]

A civil war happened and I assume Lyons had more in his ranks due to him recruiting wastelanders, while the Outcasts lost a lot of their men.

[@ObservingProcrastinator]

@MrBoxen I feel if that was what happened, there would have been a lot more animosity. I admit it's been a while since I've played F3, but the Outcasts felt more extremely disgruntled, heck I recall the leader even saying while they understand why Lyons is doing what he's doing, it's nevertheless shouldn't be The Brotherhood's business.

[@mellon3891]

I like that, starwarification of the robots is a good way to say it. Though the R2-D2 thing is not getting memory wipes for very long intervals of time. Pretty much they go insane and get a personality.

[@zeveria7206]

I agree on most points, but a few notes I'd add: 1. Lyons was always a black sheep among the brotherhood. They made this clear even in Fallout 3 where he was basically disowned by both the western Elders, the outcasts who defected, and even some of his own men. 2. Li was in the Institute because it was established at the end of Fallout 3 that she left the CW to seek them out. 3. Li was worried about being killed because several BoS members wanted to kill her and Maxson said if he had been in charge back then, she wouldn't be allowed to leave alive, since she was too valuable and knew too much. 4. Personality matrixes aren't really new. All the Handys have a basic one. We have unique Handys like RL-3, Cerberus, and Rhonda. Mr. Handy is ancient--roughly 30 years older than the Protectron unit. On top of that, we have Eden who tries to argue that he's sentient, but when the LW points out this can't be the case, his personality crumbles and he goes back to his normal processing. We also have the appliances in Old World Blues, which admit that they don't even have basic AI. Just a personality matrix overlayed on their operating system. 5. This is just my opinion, but based on what we see on Maxson in 3 and 4, I always got the impression he was a fraud, set up as a prop so the BoS could have a figurehead to worship. He throws temper tantrums, pushes responsibility of not realizing Danse is a synth onto you even though he's known him longer, recruited him, and promoted him to Paladin. I also have a hard time that this timid mewling little kid who can't shoot straight solo'd a deathclaw two years after the events of Fallout 3. The "meaning" of moments with robots are subjective. People can feel tender towards NPCs, which objectively aren't sapient, so this isn't much of a stretch. Beyond that, Codsworth still represents the SS's only tie with their past, which has significance regardless. Then you have Father, a lonely old man who creates a synth in his own so he can roleplay a "what if" where he got to live with his parent. The synth Shaun isn't him and he doesn't even cosnider the synths sentient. There's nothing logical about what he's doing and even some of the Institute members realize this. It's just emotional escapism on his part. I can't see a player character arguing a full thesis on why machines are sentient or not, but this sort of thing could have easily been seen in terminals if the writers wanted to have this discussion. ...Although I guess some people would argue that it'd be "spoon feeding the player", it still feels kinda lazy to me.

[@wayneigoe6722]

18:39 If you have Far Harbor installed and have met with the Children of Atom there, it unlocks a new line of dialogue for this interaction. You can tell them you're "on a pilgrimage", and he'll let you pass without a problem.

[@EinFelsbrocken]

Me ever since seeing the BoS on the east coast the first time in FO3: "Get that smelly lore outta heaaah!! 😡😡😡"

[@NotIre-fr9md]

Enclave too and supermutants and Harold

[@dragonborn7955]

They do explain why they're there. But it's barely believable given what we know of BoS in Fallout 2.

[@Serahpin]

Maxim is right about Danse, he's a machine that can be reprogrammed at will. That makes him an extreme danger.

[@catpurrito5586]

not if you destroy the Institute

[@TheBreakingBenny]

​@@catpurrito5586 Why not just completely shut down the synth production and use the other parts of that place?

[@billybob7135]

With the importance of the "Broken Mask Incident" and how some of your settlers can be hostile synths, it would have made perfect sense if they wanted to execute Danse to protect the BoS. The idea of a "Broken Mask" Synth in power armor in the same part of a blimp with Elder Maxson would probably scare Danse too!

[@thorzap1374]

I've been looking forward to this

[@GentleGiant-tt2uu]

Just look at Fallout London, and how much factions custom made to area they developed. Bit sad that total conversion mods like Ederal create new world with story better than Behesda.

[@TheRealBlackNet]

@16:15: Li had a dialog in the Fallout 3 DLC that she is going to find the institute and try to join them.

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

Do they ever explain Proctor Quinlan's accent? Fallout 4 is interesting in that there are a ton of random accents in the Commonwealth but no indication that world travel is a thing again. And the weird thing is, you'd actually think that Transatlantic travel would be workable by this point, two centuries after the Great War. It's just weird that no one talks about it yet plenty of people clearly are doing it.

[@valance10]

Or Cait, for that matter. We never hear a single irish person other than her.

[@noddy1973]

Idk, i think the rogue Brotherhood that didnt want to stagnate and die were very well done in Tactics and keeping their tech hoarding ideals with Vault 0 being the main goal and after that Bethesda tried to replicate them with each of their installment. Even weird in FO4 where it feels Institute would be another Vault 0 for BoS to reach and take over. The schism in Tactics also goes along with state of BoS in 2

[@ottovonbismarck7094]

I dont mind the brotherhoods main faction goal changing over time, it must be organic not this forced good guy shit. SHOW me how they changed not just some two line exposition dunp

[@GeraltofRivia22]

That opening bit is exactly why the Brotherhood was portrayed as an ideological dead end in New Vegas.

[@czarnakoza9697]

the world moved on without the brotherhood in fallout 2, that was the entire fucking point also why in fo4 does the brotherhood want to use the pre war nukes for liberty prime when their point is to prevent the bombing from happening again

[@bonzibuddy956]

Thank you for these.

[@molassesman4066]

Wait hold on the leader of the brotherhood isnt even old enough to drink???

[@Apathy.Apathy.]

Just wanted to comment on the Star Wars droids part you brought and up and add that Star Wars (at least in the expanded universe) does tackle the issue of droid sapience and the morality of keeping droids as property. There’s even multiple droids rebellions over it.

[@ffffdsd]

Isn't there a house that has a family of feral ghouls in the basement and the terminal reveals that the son unsuccessfully attempted to tame them. So was this just another instance of two different writers having no communication?

[@FuteFranta]

Creedout A betterly written post-bethesda role playing game series

[@ali18y84]

Creedout 1 plot: find a new jelly mould chip

[@Alte.Kameraden]

By this point, no wonder it's hard to choose faction in this game when they're all just down right terrible. Not terrible as evil, just terrible as in utterly so stupid that they're unlikeable even if you want to be evil.

[@MLPDethDealr32]

Actually, you need 8 charisma and intelligence to convince that follower of Atom to let you get access to the nukes without shooting him. I found that out a while ago.

[@arifhossain9751]

you can also join the Children of Atom in Far Harbor

[@MLPDethDealr32]

@@arifhossain9751 Forgot about that, ,thanks for reminding me of that option too.

[@jjb33083]

One thing is a fact, we really need to thank the modders. America Rising 2, Subversion, Phase 4, and Synthetic Player. Amazing that they all work together as well.

[@LiuYating45]

I always just assumed the deep range transmitter transmitted across the entire state meaning it would let the brotherhood contact allies near the border for more reinforcements as a backup if the prydwen is shot down

[@FuteFranta]

We got this for "good entertainment" and people wonder why 97% of my 2023 playtime is bloody truck simulator.

[@logan_wolf]

16:14 She is?! Her face looks completely different. If it wasn't for the nametag telling me she's "Dr. Li", I would've assumed she was a completely different person altogether.

[@Minnesota_Fatts]

OH BOY HERE WE GO!

[@Folomus]

Completely agree with the overuse of the BoS. One thing that seems to be missing in this video are two important aspects of the BoS: 1) The Brotherhood in practice is decentralized. Withouth good infrastructure, communication and government, each chapters ends up being autonomous, with different levels of personnel, equipment and quality of leaders. With over 150 years of different chapter and 3000 miles/4500 km of distance between them, they are inevitably vastly different. 2) The main goal of the BoS is to prevent another disaster like the Great War. They believe people outside the BoS cannot be trusted with advanced technology, and that they are the only ones that can ensure its proper use. Depending on the leader, this can result in them trying to understand the technology and ensure its proper use or destroying it if they think they cannot control it.

[@jacquescousteau3194]

9:57 me flailing wildly in agony everytime i remember Fallout 4 exists

[@BansheeNT-D]

Only 50min. I thought your rant would be longer.

[@SomeInternetGuy]

I think the Brotherhood being in D.C. makes sense because of all the government tech and the Enclave. They also split into two groups the ones that wanted to help the Capital Wasteland and those who just wanna collect tech. Also he forgot about the fact the Brotherhood are in Chicago in Tactics.

[@yeetyeet2846]

Love your videos rn bro, keep them coming x

[@codexmachina1358]

If youve joined the CoA in Far Harbor before doing that quest in the Glowing Sea, the cultist in the basement will believe you and will be much more friendly

[@causticenforcer8792]

Honestly I don’t mind this at all, Lyons brotherhood was a radical offshoot that focused on helping people rather than keeping up to the brotherhood ideals And it was done pretty well and made sense because they were more or less excommunicated by the west coast BOS Maxons brotherhood still feels like it makes sense as it’s an extreme overcorrection by a young ambitious extremist who grew up in the capital wasteland which is full is some of the worst mutants when compared to the west coast, so the shift of attitude still makes sense imo

[@SuperBondo95]

My thoughts exactly

[@sandman299us]

Never mind that according to some lines, R2-D2 swears with such flair and proficiency that would make a sailor blush. Even C3-PO comments that he is sick and tired of his constant swearing, as for robots not having feelings Curie given the fact that she can in fact fall madly in love with the sole survivor.

[@kotzpenner]

„The Star Wars-fication of Fallout robots“ what a term. And actually right, I’ve never thought about it before.

[@tylorbronson5349]

Clarification on the whole “why is Dr. Madison Li here” thing, during Fallout 3 Broken Steel DLC, you can ask where she is and they tell you she went to join a group of scientists in the commonwealth. Taking into account that Zimmer (who was bothering her every day in the Rivet City science lab) was from the Institute and raved about how the android (synth) belonged to the Institute, and we can understand how she got the idea of going to the Institute to begin with.

[@sebastijanglozinic8630]

I can totally see it! Fallout 5 set in post-war China. Say hello to the Chinese chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel! YAY! Also, Super Mutants! How the hell did they get to China? Who knows! But they are there any way.

[@mccringleberrytha3rd]

For the robot part id also add that the robots you can construct with the Automaton DLC also seem to have some form of self-preservation. If enabled with a personality they seem to be weary of being told to self-destruct and show relief if you cancel the demand.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

6:13 You were close and far off at the same time 😅. BOS in tv show is "muh evil faction" but in the most stupidest way, where they have a cutl like ritual and initiates fear knights as if they gonna snap their heads. Like Bethesda literally makes BOS so inconsistent you can't predict their next iteration!

[@louderbacker]

I just got an ad on this video for some kind of Fallout branded coffee. Hilarious.

[@eggy6815]

Fallout 4s brotherhood is like that one kid in the sandbox who doesn’t have the coolest toys so he either steals everyone else’s or breaks them.

[@CressicaStorm]

It would have been cool if when the brotherhood are at the airport that when you are going to get the deep range transmitter that dance said something about the brotherhood in the commonwealth having trouble keeping contact with the brotherhood outside of the commonwealth due to some contrived reason

[@khajaazharuddinsiddiqui4844]

I have one single statement: Fuck the Brotherhood Of Steel.

[@photographerleia]

RE: question about what are druids in Star Wars, I believe that A New Hope novelization and EU addressed this a bit. Basically "personalities" and independent actions were considered anomalies that emerged when droids weren't regularly memory-wiped. Wedge, who most recently owned C-3PO/R2-D2, as of episode 4 either neglected memory wipes or didn't believe in them. As such the duo had personalities by the time we met them. Novelizations touch on the parallelism between Droid servants (who are routinely wiped) and slavery. The droids that follow movie heroes are anomalies and have essentially gained their "freedom". In the KOTOR games you can similar juxtaposition between HK who is brimming with character (who had not been managed by a human for a while) and HK units that were in current operation.

[@DlK69]

I enjoy all of the standalone faction Videos. The Leaf Bro had a very good idea👍🏽

[@GoblinKnightLeo]

Going to search for the Institute is part of Dr. Li's ending in F3.

[@frozentspark2105]

4 was my first fallout, its high school level writing. Its still a fun game if you completely ignore every bit of dialogue, like all of it. Just go build stuffs