The Problem With The Hunchback of Notre Dame

If I see one more person cite Esmeralda as the ‘justice against racism’ princess, I’m gonna scream.
Recommending Reading and Sources:
Book: We are the Romani People, by Ian Hancock
www.oocities.o...
Ian Hancock, the Struggle for the Control of Identity
www.ushmm.org/...
The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum’s recommended readings.
gomakemeasandw...
A comprehensive article on the racism present in The Curse of Strahd.
Credits:
Script, writing, graphics, art: Swiftstart
Video and Sound work and editing: Foxchain
Disclaimer: I do not own Disney’s the Hunchback of Notre Dame in any way, shape or form.
Tangled and Rapunzel’s Tangled Adventure both belong to Disney
The Curse of Strahd belongs to Wizards of the Coast
Stock Footage of Notre Dame from: www.motionplac...
*I also do not own the piece used in the opening sequence; The Hunchback of Notre Dame: Bells of Notre Dame

[@emsne-p4k]

I see how you think that Quasimodo embracing Esmerelda's dead body is gross, because anybody would assume this, but it is really a tragic and symbolic ending. He protected her at night, gave her his food, let her sleep on his mattress while he slept on the floor, and even offered to retrive Phoebus for her because he knew she loved Phoebus and not him. He was willing to do anything for Esmerelda and even told her he would jump off of Notre Dame if she wanted him to. He didn't clutch Esmerelda's dead body to the point of starvation because he couldn't control it, but because he had nothing else to live for. He was embracing her because she was the last piece of kindness he could hold on to.

[@Swiftstart]

Believe me, I know it's deeply symbolic. But my concern is that its also a pretty creepy and taboo activity and one which has been featured as a 'creepy weird dude trait' for multiple Romani men characters. Which was much more of my point rather than just the act of corpse-cuddling is gross. The fact that it is a repeated behavior in multiple medias (including ones I was previously unaware of but that other commenters have gone into) indicates its a harmful, repeated, stereotype associated with Roma men. Heathcliff being probably the most damning example, with his story being not a romance but a gothic horror/tragedy. His embracing the dead Catherine isn't meant to be seen as a beautiful romantic act but a misguided madman's frenzy. That both Quasi and Heathcliff were raised by non-Romani people but share this dark behavior implies that it is something that is innately part of their nature. And that's bad.

[@emsne-p4k]

I see how this applies to Heathcliff, but it just dosen't apply to Quasimodo. Victor Hugo's goal for this ending was to give the reader a bittersweet feeling and symbolize gothic architecture, which has beauty intertwined with ugliness. Victor Hugo had different reasons for this ending and wanted us to see Quasimodo as a complex character rather than a stereotypical one who would cuddle a corpse with no reason other than because he has Romani ancestry.

[@Slav_Stiibun]

I don't know if I'd take Quasimodo doing it as offensive. I'm Romani and catholic and I saw it as an imitation of the famous DaVinci statue of the Virgin Mary holding the corpse of Jesus. It's meant I think to show that Quasimodo is an innocent loving person.

[@Slav_Stiibun]

Also I wanna add that Quasimodo is also suffering from mental illness. The Disney film kind of doesn't explain that the gargoyles are not really talking but are all in his imagination. The final battle scene doesn't do any favors when explaining this. Last but not least is the gay undertones that folks usually talk about with this movie are the gargoyles.

[@emsne-p4k]

@@Slav_Stiibun you seem like a fun person to debate with. I love your arguments. So tell me, why do you believe this movie has gay undertones? And do you believe the gargoyles are real, or just being imagined?

[@BeelzeBubblesTheBee]

I never saw this movie as a cometary on racism against Romani but more on how evil people will use mainstream religion to justify their shitty behavior, thank you for making this video enlightening me, and hopefully overs, about Romani culture

[@Swiftstart]

I'm so glad that I was able to show you another perspective! It's amazing how a film can have multiple messages. I really hope that this video can help lots of people see Hunchback differently.

[@hamizanyunos1502]

@@Swiftstart I would like to say that the only other few Romani characters I am aware are mostly from comic books with Doctor Doom, Wanda Maximoff and Dick Grayson are said to have Romani heritage to an extent though some of them are whitewashed to an extent. It is pretty sad though because being Romani is actually core part of Doctor Doom's mythos.

[@tittypotsticker8160]

It’s funny because as a full Romani “gypsy” living in America our culture is actually based off religion and my whole family and everyone I know or know of is Christian or catholic

[@veganperson466]

The Hunchback was very dark. racism, sexism, lust, sexualized female character, Hellfire, death... yeah

[@Aerlas]

I am half traveler and I still remember when the movie came out. It was banned from the house without an explanation as to why due to me being a kid. My folks had this habit of trying to protect my siblings and I from the stereotypes instead of addressing it.

[@NutritionalAlchemy]

very grateful someone made the time to explore this in depth. This has been extremely useful as research for an essay on Roma representation I'm about to start. Thankyou !

[@Swiftstart]

So happy to help! Not gonna lie this was originally a final paper for a class that I converted into KZbin form. Good luck on your paper!!

[@agnesbatonai3]

I can understand that in the US people don't know much about the romani but in Hungary... Yeah we have Romani people and still there's a stigma and racism against them. I myself am Hungarian and feel sad that my country is racist toward the Romani.

[@ireneqq2300]

Same here in Spain. The Romani people are mostly in the south and there isn't a well known name for them except the traduction of gypsies (gitanos). Many media platforms dont even see it as the slur it can be. Even official books for racial equality use that. I started using "ecthical romani" (étnicamente romani) when a friend told me he found it wierd since they had pretty much got used to it. He even used it affectinally with his cousins and between brothers. But he thanked me since he understands he doesnt speak for most people of his etnicity group. There are many different groups in the south and often they fall into misconceptions and discrimination although their commoness in some villages has gradually called for more aceptance.

[@capitalizingcapitalist1202]

People like you are so annoying. “I’m So SaD”, like no you’re not. Prejudice is a normal part of human society and function. It will always be there and don’t think for a second you don’t participate in sone manner of prejudice or bigotry.. everyone does it, whether not they realize it.

[@calci2679]

There are Romani people in the US

[@sadem1045]

When I was in the 7th grade my one-on-one aid told me and some other students that the Roma were all thieves. Even though I knew almost nothing about the Roma I told her she was wrong (I don't support accusing entire people groups of horrible things, sue me). She looked me dead in the eye and told me I was wrong.

[@Swiftstart]

WOW I am sadly not surprised. It blows my mind how many people will generalize entire groups like that, especially in this day and age. It just strikes me as common sense but apparently to some folks thats madness

[@Gypsygeekfreak17]

As a Roma my self I appreciate your hard work on this video for our people You should look in to our culture more

[@Swiftstart]

Sorry for the late reply, I got my second covid shot yesterday and was bedridden :C I'm so glad you appreciate it! I plan on learning more for sure- it's tricky because my own family effectively erased it / anyone who would know is no longer with us. So I'm having to rely a lot on academic research but I'd love to learn more!

[@Gypsygeekfreak17]

@@Swiftstart sweetie sweetie Don’t worry I understand some Roma don’t want people to know cause they are afraid of what people will think of us And it’s understandable but Not all white people are bad just remember that Tell you what come on over to my channel and let’s get talking

[@gypsyfreak7934]

@Domagoj Čović what do you mean

[@Swiftstart]

​@@Gypsygeekfreak17 Sorry for the very late reply, my offline life got more than a little crazy in the last few weeks. (end of the semester papers and more gah) Don't worry, I am fully aware that not all white people are bad. If I didn't than I should burn my history and anthropology degree xD I myself am simultaneously white and Roma. My families personal history is pretty tragic- deciding that being white passing would be better than embracing the the truth. For the sake of my own privacy I won't go into too much detail.

[@0racle.sunrise3570]

I heard parts of the original story before but naively thought as a child that Disney's version was better & more progressive, I especially loved "God help the outcasts" but watching your video made me realize how Disney was barely able to deliver it's own message (I found out years ago it's not the first time Disney did this, so this wasn't shocking but still a hard pill to swallow). You & your community deserved better than this.

[@vikingswirlix6947]

Great job on this one! I can't wait to see as your channel grows and grows.

[@j.a.greene3523]

Having a screenwriting degree, I do have to say that older movies often used common stereotypes in order for the audience to understand the characters better, whether major or minor. Many plot devices come from building off of those stereotypes, either leading to the recognition that these characters are protagonists or antagonists to help make the story go along. Without this, the storyteller would have to take too much time to depict each character the way they want to in order to explain to the audience right away "this isn't who you think it is". It bogs down the movie and inflates the probably-already too long run-time, especially for animated movies. Disney (and even Looney Tunes at that) banked off of using previously understood stereotypes so that the audience knows what's going on even before anything happens. The problem being is that the stereotype is often perpetuated by society; not the movie. Stereotypes exist in society and the movie just plays along with that. While I will admit that media can play a huge part in our perspective of other people, there has to be an education in schools that not all of those certain people are like that, but they were *believed* to be like that (or perhaps once were like that), based on what happened in the past. However, with that being said, 95% of people believe that psychics are simply scam-artists who say a lot of mumbo-jumbo in order to take your money and run away in the middle of the night. Unfortunately, there are a lot of real stories that carry that negative stereotype that psychics and fortune readers are just glorified scam-artists... which perpetuates the narrative. In those cases, the stereotype is justified, even if it is harmful. Stories are just that: stories. Many (hopefully) understand that Hunchback is fictional, and it has fictional characters. While it might be based in a real place with real locations, the audience has to understand that these characters do not exist in real life, have no merit on what happens in real life, and are simply created to provide entertainment to us for the time-being and are nothing more than that. What Esmeralda represents is up to the individual's imagination, regardless of whether or not it aligns with the creator's intention. People have to stop putting so much emphasis on how stories (ones 20+ years old at that), are "ruining" society. It. Is. Fiction. Not real, never real, never will be real... fiction. Not even considering the fact that the source material is over 200 years old when no one is currently alive from that time-period anyway. it is simply a story that is up for anyone's interpretation. My thought has always been... if you're being wrongly stereotyped, then go against the narrative. For centuries, it was depicted that African-Americans were stupid. Knowing that, many African-Americans went out and became doctors and lawyers, breaking that stereotype. Asians had the stereotype of being nerdy or geeky, so a lot of them have been training to become better athletes. Even women were considered not to be able to run Fortune 500 Companies, but many have done just that. With people breaking these stereotypes in real life, it makes it harder for society to pursue this narrative of negative stereotypes. With that being said, I know there is still current persecution of the Romani people, no matter what they do. While mainly based in Europe, the Romani people are still kind of treated like the "outsiders". This, as you noted, is mainly due to their refusal to drop their ancient pagan beliefs in order to conform to the Christian or Muslim religion. The Christian Church did a wonderful job marketing the idea that "gypsies" were horrible, evil, crafty people, because they wanted to isolate and eradicate them so everyone would be part of the Church (more people, more money). This is where the idea started, and like many old Christian traditions, the idea of seeing someone less than you when they do not believe the same things you do has perpetuated into the modern day. The Romani people are one of several minority groups that have suffered from this same fate. The Romani, along with what is often known as "witches", were demonized (no pun intended) by Christianity so as to not encourage others to join them. When there is this transformed belief that they are somehow "lesser" because they would rather believe in 200 generations of ancestral belief over a religion that was formed mainly because a group of Middle Eastern people thought one person (out of 10 billion) was God, then the persecution will lower significantly. Being different does not always mean being wrong, and being told that you're wrong, doesn't mean that you are. Real life needs to better influence media, and from there, media will have a better reflection of society. Stories told are moments that have happened or are happening; stories were never meant to change the future. If we want to change the future, we first start changing ourselves, and then our stories will change for the better.

[@yateesquishy]

FYI, the disempowered and stereotyped peoples should not bear the burden of fighting against the stereotypes held by others.

[@j.a.greene3523]

@@yateesquishy Did you even read the post?

[@lucasfog1272]

I want to offer a counterpoint regarding the impact of media and fiction on societal perceptions and attitudes. While it's true that fiction often reflects the existing societal norms and stereotypes, they also play a significant role in perpetuating these norms. Edward Said (in his brilliant book Orientalism) argued that the West's portrayal of the East did not simply reflect the existing stereotypes but was instrumental in solidifying a particular narrative of the 'Oriental' as exotic, backward, and uncivilised. This narrative was used to justify colonial and imperialist endeavors. In the same way, films and novels that rely on stereotypes (even if not on purpose) contribute to cementing these in the public consciousness. The portrayal of Esmeralda doesn't just mirror existing tropes, but reinforces and perpetuates them. In fact, every representation in popular media adds another layer to the collective understanding and perception of a particular group. You are right that individuals need to challenge and break stereotypes in society and this is important, but we also have to recognise systematic and structural barriers that make defiance really hard. Media representation impacts public perception which in turn influence politics, laws, and everyday interactions. This is especially true in a world where people are constantly consuming media - a diverse, nuanced, respectful portrayal of different groups is paramount. It's not about dismissing older work and saying they are "ruining" society, instead it's about engaging critically with them to understand their historical context, learning from them, and creating a more inclusive and respectful media landscape.

[@ektran4205]

disney films are marketed towards children

[@crystalkirlia4553]

FINALLY! SOME ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS!!! As a fellow English Roma I really appreciate the work you put into this video and can't thank you enough!

[@Swiftstart]

Thank you! I'm so glad you like it! :D

[@Hallasammal]

I'm honestly surprised there's not more discussion about the racism in this movie! This was the only video that came up from searching youtube. Thank you for making it, i really learned something new today. About Pocahontas though, even though they did make an effort to be accurate in some aspects, it's still a deeply racist movie too in my opinion. Pocahontas' character is also exotized and sexualized, and considering the real historical events the movie is based on it's baffling why it even got made, let alone as a love story. Like, what the hell was Disney thinking first making a kids movie based off of a historical tragedy and then an ancient, racist novel?? But you're absolutely right that it's insane how people don't seem to recognise Hunchbacks' racism for what it is and how these harmful stereotypes are still widely used in modern media.

[@Swiftstart]

SUPER LATE REPLY But yes! You are super right. Pocahontas is a hot mess disaster of a movie. Somewhere I have bookmarked a creepy article from when it came out where the guy who designed her said that he went out of her way to make her the most idealized, sexy, perfect woman ever. And it was just like "oh my god no". Honestly I might a video on that disaster next cause wow. Mostly I'm just impressed that they at least pretended to try with Pocahontas, when they didn't even try at all with hunchback. I don't know what they were thinking then because truly neither film makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

[@_somerandomguyontheinternet_]

Most historians agree that the story in Pocahantas didn’t even happen. It was less likely that the chieftain was actually trying to kill John Smith, and more that it was a form of ritual meant to establish that the foreigners did not mean any threat to the natives. So yeah, the movie sucks (the music aside). Also, can I say what an embarrassment it is that John Smith, the man who managed to keep the peace between the settlers and the natives for so long, was played by *Mel Gibson?* Yuck.

[@KingdomHeartsBrawler]

To be fair, I would argue that the 1939 adaptation of Hunchback handles the social justice aspects way better. Unlike the Disney film, the Romani are portrayed 100% sympathetically. The 1939 film was specifically made as a protest against encroaching fascism from the Nazis.

[@Swiftstart]

I'm definitely going to have to check it out because that sounds fascinating! Admittedly I've only seen the disney version as far as adaptations go :O

[@Agatos8]

On a brighter note, the word "gitano" (gipsy in spanish, pronounced "hee-tan-oh") seems to have been reclaimed by the andalucian romani population, and apparently prefer it or at least use it more often than the word romani. They actually fought against the RAE about the dictionary's definition of the word gitano, which was super racist, and won! There's a big population of gitanos in Andalucía and they even have a festive day dedicated to them, since their culture is a big influence on the region (the birth of flamenco is the biggest example that comes to mind). Of course Spain has a long way to go when it comes to racism/xenophobia, but I thought it'd be nice to point out the small victories of andalucian gitanos. I'd like to rant about something though: while I can't speak for native americans and Pocahontas, I can speak about Elena de Avalor since I am latinoamericana. Yes, the show is very wholesome and serviceable in some aspects regarding culture, but the truth is, it kinda... really irks me that they just blended an entire continent of people into a single blob. Before colonialism, América was incredibly diverse: spanish colonialism literally murdered most of our diversity, and ever since then Latinoamérica has always struggled with their sense of identity; we all had to make our own from scratch, individually, and rescue what little we had left. The fact that Elena just grabbed general latino culture, POST-colonialism, and made it even blander and cookie-cutter is just so, SO frustrating!

[@GuineaPig361]

Then you're gonna love Encanto. From the first teasers and looks, I thought, "This is the anti-Elena, and I love it!" The directors went to Colombia, got Colombian voice actors and musicians, and people have made videos listing all of Encanto's authentic details.

[@Agatos8]

@@GuineaPig361 Encanto looks promising from what I've seen, I'm especially looking forward to it for two reasons: One, it's nice to see Disney/Pixar FINALLY make a latino-centered movie that isn't about Mexico. As much as I love the Emperor's New Groove, it sacrificed peruvian/inca culture in favor of jokes and I get they had to rewrite and reanimate the whole movie but I mourn what Kingdom of the Sun could've been... and UP doesn't even state it takes place in venezuelan Amazonas, you have to pause the movie and look at the tickets Carl bought for Ellie to know this (or just know Paradise Falls is literally Salto Ángel in Auyantepui, located in Venezuela). Reason two is some people are calling this movie a possible homage to Realismo Mágico, a literary movement that colombian writer Gabriel García Márquez was famous for; I'd love to see Disney surprise me with something like that, since Gabriel reshaped the movement within LATAM literature. I'm really crossing my fingers with this movie, hopefully they'll hire colombian actors for the latino dub as well :D

[@MobytheMonster]

Having just freshly read the book myself, I have a lot of thoughts about it. I think it's important when reading old literature to take into account the times they were written. Honestly for that time it was a very progressive piece of art. I also think it has many interesting themes and symbolism that are very stimulating for a deep thinker. That being said, the fact people used those depictions as factual representations of a group of people in the nineties is inexcusable. They had enough knowledge to implore better practices. As for the story as a whole, as much as the stereotyping is embedded there, I think some of what you are saying is based off of individual perception. For instance I saw that the men being attracted to Esmeralda at fault for their desire as free will vs. Fate is very much a thematic element in the story. Frollo blames her though she obviously denies him affections showing he is in control but chooses to blame it on "fate" or "witch craft" I saw her reveal of being white a great reflection of how silly racism actually is when her mother finds out Esmeralda is her child miraculously forgets she wanted to kill her mere seconds ago. Also as much as there are stereotypes against Quasimodo, he is actually depicted as kind and even genius to some standard which was very ahead for the time the book was written. I think Romani people need to write more about their experience (or make movies) for this book not to hold a weight of proper depiction. It should also be heavily focused as inaccurate in terms of race in the classroom.

[@rjmckenzie4706]

I am so glad you made this video because I am doing a personal project on Romani History and culture. When I became more interested in history as I got older I started to do some research on Romani people because I watched a documentary that talked about the flamenco and mentioning its Romani roots. Its sad many people do not know about the Roma and reinforce harmful stereotypes, but I am thankful your doing this.

[@Swiftstart]

I'm so glad I was able to help! The resources are so few and far between it can be a nightmare to research so best of luck to you on your project. I am confident that in the future, things will improve :)

[@rjmckenzie4706]

@@Swiftstart i agree

[@rjmckenzie4706]

@caitlyncarvalho7637 oh yeah its the whole white saviour trope. Its just ridiculous, it would have nice for Quasi to be with Esmerelda but sadly it didnt happen.

[@rjmckenzie4706]

@caitlyncarvalho7637 im not sure never herd of the character but maybe he does fit

[@farmerproductions9869]

So sorry about how your heritage has been misrepresented by people and the media. Plus I bet Wandavision and Wanda in the MCU doesn’t help.

[@Swiftstart]

It's a real tragedy. I hope that with the outcry about Wanda/Vision that Disney will step up. That all happened after I'd recorded my video otherwise I would have made mention of it for sure.

[@farmerproductions9869]

@@Swiftstart have to agree it’s a problem despite being a fan of the show, plus I feel like the ad for the show during one of the webpages looked like it was staring at the viewer begging to be talked about

[@gypsyfreak7934]

@@Swiftstart get over it

[@Swiftstart]

@@gypsyfreak7934 says the person keeps leaving comments and then deleting them days later. you get over it.

[@gypsyfreak7934]

@@Swiftstart im a gypsy too so no

[@mayrahemmerechts5867]

Romani originating from India has me wondering if the Romani are the original inhabitants of places like Harappa and Mohenjodaro who “mysteriously” vanished around the time the Indus Valley started drying up

[@jasmin_dd963]

Our parents made sure we never watched the movie when we were kids and I just watched it today at 22 years old. I guess it was because I also have a facial deformity and they didn't want me to see Qasimodo's depiction (a completely different problem) but honestly, I was more horrified at the blatant racism. Glad to see a video adressing this!

[@pandabanaan9208]

I will say one thing though, while they did screw up the romani representation I think there are still some very progressive things about the movie like giving a nuanced take on religion with both a good priest and a corrupt one and most of all the fact that the main character is ugly but treated with kindness and sympathy wich basically from what I know hasn't happened in a mayor movie since(or mayor anything really), though the remake will likely screw those good qualities up by reducing frollo to just an evil guy whose religiousness has nothing to do with his actions and quasimodo will be mildly ugly instead of disfigured

[@yieldtopedestrians7943]

Absolutely fantastic video. Thanks for the recommending reading and sources.

[@Swiftstart]

Thank you so much!

[@AceKaptain]

this video is so good and explains a lot I just don't know how to feel because this has been my favorite movie for a long while, I decided to stop overlooking how bad the romani representation is in it. Is it bad if I like it still?? not that I like the harmful streotypes it reinforces, it's that I feel it could be way better if romani people were portrayed correctly while keeping the main plot, I hope Im explaining myself.

[@Nikolai1939]

I get what you're saying, but tbh it doesn't make the animation lesser for it, it's not an accurate depiction of medieval Europe either. The movie is character driven, the slapstick does more damage to the quality than representation. You also should remember that the disney movie is heavily based on the 1939 movie, which A. is not an accurate representation either and B. was meant as a protest to fascism, so it inherits those problems (contradiction between representation and message).

[@QuackerHead-j]

17:41 "Depicted as hideous." That's only what you see and assume though. Everyone in the hunchback of Notre Dame is equally ugly looking to me with the exception of Esmeralda and Phoebus. Clopin, Quasimodo, Claude, the guards etc. are all ugly whether that be on the outside or inside.

[@justice_of_Youtube]

Frollo is good looking wdym

[@kristinahuchison2511]

Same. NGL I’ve seen so many people say Hunchback is a much better movie regarding racism and prejudice than Pocahontas, but I kinda disagree. Yes Pocahontas does have a lot of problems too, but I will still defend it actually had a lot of research put into the Powhatan tribe and culture specifically, not just making Pocahontas another Tiger Lily and calling it a day. I legit almost NEVER see anyone mentioning how Esmerelda is literally the only Romani character that is portrayed as normal/extremely beautiful, everyone else including Clopin are portrayed as scrawny or overweight with ragged clothes and wearing those stupid earrings as if they’re gay. The fact the movie never actually addresses the term Gypsy as a slur is wrong, I was legitimately waiting for Esmerelda to correct Quasi and say her people are called Romani or Roma. As much as I love Esmerelda as a character and kinda wished she was in the Disney Princess lineup, I do agree it would’ve been a bad look having a sexualized stereotype for an already unappreciated minority group. I know a lot of people wished Pocahontas wasn’t in the lineup because of how much criticism her movie got and the problems associated with it today, but I still love Pocahontas as a character ever since her movie came out, and I’m grateful her movie actually had Native American actors for the Indigenous characters at least.

[@peri6979]

As someone that has a family history that was forced to cover up their jewishness under a cloak of Southern Baptism, the part where you talk about those two awful students broke my heart. Your feelings matter. Your history and ethnicity matters and I hope your journey to discover your heritage goes well. Thanks for reccing those books too! I was wanting learn about the culture for ages.

[@avivastudios2311]

Awful students?

[@peri6979]

@@avivastudios2311 The school minority scholarship part. Should have specified.

[@bunbunpad8407]

Amazing video! I really appreciate your take on this and fine look at history and such a mistreated minorty group. As someone who absolutely adores the music in Hunchback (almost specifically the musical adaptation) I’m genuinely curious: would you rather scrap the story as a whole, or IF you could, how would you rework/rewrite hunchback to be positive representation for the romani people? Again, love the video and really love that you’re willing to be so open and bold with you stance on this! Don’t back down! I’m in full support of it!

[@giancarlojacobs9982]

Green eyes = Impossible exotic feature? Take it you've never seen Rihanna......

[@Swiftstart]

Perhaps "unlikely" would be a better term. I have a degree in anthropology and have taken courses on genetics. Green eyes are among the rarest in the entire world- a whopping 2% of the entire world population have them. And they are unusual even among racially white individuals (For instance, my mother is the only one of her 6 siblings who has them, and none of their children or other relatives have them. Personally, I lean on the dark hazel side). In fact, if you google Rihanna and her eyes, the majority of the things that come up are people being surprised to learn that yes, her eyes are indeed light hazel, because it is that uncommon. Its worth noting that both her parents have dark eyes, as do other members of her family. Most likely her eyes are the result of either a spontaneous genetic mutation or from recessive genes resulting from white ancestry somewhere on both sides of her family. So basically, yes, green eyes can happen, but they are very, very unusual. What I mean by bringing attention to Esmeralda's eyes is exactly that: they are highly unusual. It's a pretty common uncomfortable thing in media that when a WOC is drawn and is intended to be perceived as 'beautiful' that she will have an unlikely hair or eye color, and usually on the light end. Kida from Atlantis, Storm from the X-Men, and Katara from Avatar are all examples of this trope. Bonus points if they have white textured hair when they really shouldn't. And if your say, a little girl with dark brown eyes and dark skin, you might start to feel a little insecure if all of the women who look like "you" don't actually look like you. Which is part of why Moana, Elena and Tiana's designs are down-right awesome. Because the 98% of little girls without green eyes can relate to them.

[@Slav_Stiibun]

I think the reason why her eyes are green is a design choice when they designed her. I mean her name literally means emerald.

[@sonjapauhakari1842]

This is an enlightening video. Still, The Hunchback of Notre Dame is my favourite Disney film, and it is more about accepting different people, about longing for freedom and, of course, about destructive sexual lust than about maintaining Romani stereotypes, although the way the vagabonds living in the Court of Miracles are portrayed is disturbing. I am a Finn, and I have some Romani friends, so I know quite a lot about Romani culture and history. Even though many Roma over here do also regard the word "gypsy" as a slur, I personally find the word "hunchback" a lot more disturbing. In Finnish, Quasimodo is more often called bellringer than hunchback, both in the novel and in the different film versions. As far as Esmeralda's origin is concerned, it is regrettable indeed that Hugo let his gypsies steal a little baby and even wrote some townswomen suspected the child to have been eaten! Even if such biased beliefs are credible in a story occurring im the Middle Ages, it is heart-breaking to read about the mother suffering for 15 years, believing she would never see her Agnes again. :( Even sadder, she wasn't able to save her daughter from death, although they did finally find each other. By the way, when last reading the book I happened to think Esmeralda didn't say a word about thanking Quasimodo after everything he had done to protect her in her sanctuary! I never paid attention to Esmeralda being actually white when discussing Frollo's lust after her. It may have been an issue for European readers at the time the book was published, but for me, it's quite credible Disney's Frollo lusts after a Romani girl, and I even think it's okay to create a story where a Romani man would lust after a white woman, parallelling the dilemma with how Esmeralda is aspired after by several men, particularly Frollo. Yes, I know it's racist to think a Romani man as lustful, but if you really think of this, it's quite as possible as a white man thinking that way about a Romani woman.

[@latroletteeeee]

As French, this video hilariously bad.

[@Swiftstart]

Je suis désolé. Quel est votre problème avec la vidéo ?

[@pearlisn]

As a romani person, Thank you for this

[@_somerandomguyontheinternet_]

Can we talk about how this movie is G rated? Like, I know rating were different back in the day, but these days having a homosexual relationship practically gets you an R rating by itself but this, *this* gets a pass? Also, at 22:17 I’m not sure if this is intentional, but the ad at the top is for WandaVision. Wanda Maximoff in the comics was the daughter of Magneto, a Jewish Holocaust survivor, and Magda, who is Romani. Now it’s been retconned and they’re fully Romani and not the children of Erik and Magda, but my point remains. I find it interesting that the page for “gypsy” has an ad about a character who is based on a Romani character. Coincidence? I THINK N- yeah, probably. These things are usually computer generated. Also, in WandaVision they do a cute easter egg where Wanda dresses up in her comics outfit for Halloween. However, a friend of mine (who has Romani ancestry) pointed out that the outfit’s in-universe explanation is that it’s a “Sokovian fortune teller.” Yay, stereotypes! P.s. I’m Jewish and I found many similarities between the historic oppression of Jews and Romani, so it’s interesting to compare and contrast the trends in their histories (at least from an intellectual perspective). You know the “money-grubbing Jew” stereotype? In Europe, one of the few jobs Jews could get were tax collectors, and needless to say their Christian neighbors didn’t like that. I noticed parallels between the negative stereotypes resulting from the work they could find and negative stereotypes that originated with Romani people taking the jobs they could find. If you want to learn more, here’s a short article about the origin of the occupational-origin Jewish stereotypes: encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/antisemitism-in-history-the-early-modern-era-1300-1800 I plan on doing what I can to raise awareness about the persecution of Romani people, and I wish you luck in your similar ventures! Minorities need to support each other. One of my favorite poems is “First They Came,” by Martin Niemöller: “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out-because I was not a socialist. “Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out- because I was not a trade unionist. “Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-because I was not a Jew. “Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me.” When one minority comes under attack, it is not only the duty of other minorities to support them, but it is in their best interest. Divided we shall surely fall, but united, we may yet stand.

[@SeasideDetective2]

Esmeralda is really a deconstruction of the stereotypes. She is not TRULY "exotic," "sexual," and "dangerous"'; that's just her carnival act. And while she is indeed a trickster figure, she genuinely needs to be in order to survive. And, according to the original novel, she is not really Romani at all, but a French girl adopted and raised by Roma as one of their own.

[@Swiftstart]

I’m gonna go on a limb and guess that you didn’t watch the whole video nor have you read the book. Because Esmeralda wasn’t “adopted” by the Roma in the book. She was kidnapped as a baby by them. Which is obviously bad and something I go over pretty explicitly. And Disney’s own marketing really amped up how sexual she is in the tie in content so…. Yea.

[@LmaoMoni]

Ive been thinking about this a lot that you for saying breaking it down

[@Swiftstart]

My pleasure! I'm amazed I've never seen anyone discuss this :)

[@LmaoMoni]

@@Swiftstart yeah it’s especially like hhhh when you hear youtubers talking about the movie they’re like “g*psy this” and “g*psy that” and it’s like bruh.

[@Swiftstart]

@@LmaoMoni THIS oh my gosh. One I like quite a bit just did a review and people in the comments politely explained to her not to use the term, but others of course did the whole 'its not a real ethnic group' thing too. it was seriously disheartening.

[@LmaoMoni]

@@Swiftstart people really out here thinking romani are like a mythical race. What’s shame is that anti-romani discrimination is still RAMPANT in europe. When i lived there people were open and blunt about their racism and it was see at socially acceptable.

[@Gypsygeekfreak17]

@@LmaoMoni it’s not that bad

[@c.d.dailey8013]

I loved the Disney version of Hunchback of Notre Dame. It is in my top ten list of favorite Disney movies. I like it for the deep themes, complex characters and grogeous music. I could rave all day about how great this movie. I watched this video long ago. I was shocked to learn this movie was problematic. The only serious issue was the movie frequently using the G word instead of Romani. As racism goes slurs are relatively mild. It may be a nitpick more than anything. However I recently listened to the audiobook of the original novel. Now I get it. I think I finally agree with this video. The original book is terrible. It is so shocking. I tried to read this in regular book form long ago. The worst part is the architecture. Oh my gosh! Victor Hugo won't shut the heck up about the architecture of Notre Dame Cathedral and Paris in general. It is so unnecessary for a modern audience. I can always look that stuff up on Google Images. Even without the internet the descriptions are overkill. This is info dumping and world building to the extreme. This is a slog and I was so boring. I couldn't finish the book at all because of the long descriptions. I recently listed to the audiobook. I was able to power through the whole thing. The architecture parts are still torture to listen to. I am a harcore fantasy nerd. I love world building. Yet this story was too much even for me. Worldbuilding can slow thing down and bore people. However I find it enjoyable, and I have a very high tolerance of it. However the Hunchback of Notre Dame book goes to such ludicrous extremes. There is a general rule that world building should only be done a little at a time whenever it becomes relavent to the plot. Apparantly Victor Hugo didn't get the memo. He goes extremes in the opposite direction. The plot grinds to a halt completely. All the human characters are removed completely. Instead there is just pages and pages about discriptions of architecture. It is so boring. I think another part of the problem is that the setting is too realistic. Real places don't need descriptions. So describing them in detail is unnessisary and boring. World building is most commonly associated with fantasy and sci fi. I think that is where it fits the best. When the rules of reality change, there are new possiblities for a world. So an exciting new world can be described, and it fits. There are other places where world building can work. It can work for distopian stories. It can also work for the more exotoc kinds of horror stories, like paranormal horror and cosmic horror. Hunchback of Notre Dame is none of these generes. So it doesn't neeed extensive world building. It is a historicaal fiction, but even that isn't enough. It is still too mundane. I know that Victor Hugo was trying to promote the Notre Dame Cathedral so it would get restored. It is a good and noble intention. However the execution falls flat. There are hardly any times where there is actually characters and plot. Even when there is, there is way too much purple prose. Seriously, what is it about the purple prose? How was this considered acceptable let alone good? I would have rather focus on telling a good story. Make the writing clear and straightforward with a moderation in descriptives. Purple prose is one of those things that modern writing advice actually opposes. All that flowery language can really impair the reader's imersion. Instead of engaging with the story, they would either laugh, barf or just be confused. The Hunchback of Notre Dame book is really racist. This is something that this video goes into. I do appreciate the brief background of the Romani that the video shows and why things are racist. The Disney version didn't offend me very much. I thought of it as being one that is pro Romani. It sets up racism against them, and then shows that this is wrong. I am fine to have stories about fighting against discrimination, just as long as the oppressed people are depicted in a positive light. The Hunchback of Notre Dame book is so much more racist than the Disney movie. I am shocked and appalled by it. Now I really understand what this video is about. I thought I didn't get the video before because I wasn't woke enough. Once I listen to the audiobook, I see there was something very different. I was actually woke enough. I was just unaware of how bad the story was. The original book is so much more racist than the Disney movie. It really leans into the negative stereotypes of the Romani. It is also played painfully straight. There is no subversion at all. I can already tell why the book is problematic without someone explaining why. It is so horrible. Yikes! The Romani are really depicted as a bunch of dirty mystical criminals with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. There are a few things that stood out to me. This biggest one is Esmeralda. Oh my gosh! Esmeralda. The Disney version and the book version are so different from each other, it is like night and day. They may as well be two different characters who happen to share the same race and name. The Disney version of Esmeralda is awesome. I love it when women of color get to kick but and save the day. In recent decades there are quite a few Disney characters like that, and they are awesome. Eseralda is one of them. She is strong. She is assertive. She bodly goes against the discrimination of herself and all Romani and outcasts. She saves both Quasimodo and Pheobus. She doesn't put up with any of Frollo's hogwash. She is just cool. The book version of Esmeralda is entirely different. She is so horrifying. This is the worst possible way imaginable for a woman of color to be depicted. One really sexist way to depict women is to have them be sex object. If that women is also a person of color, they get a sexy version of sterotypical clothes from thier culture. This forms an exotic fetsh kind of character. This is a nasty combo of sexism and rasism together. It is so disgusting. I find that there are quite a few races with a whore stereotype working as an exotic fetish. Blacks have Jezebel. Native Americans have squaw. Asians have dragon lady. There are others that don't really have a name. Middle Easterns have the sexy harem girl and bellydancer kind of women. Hispanics have spicy and fiery lovers. The Hispanic version can come in both male and female versions. In the book, Esmeralda is essentially the disgusting exotic fetish kind of character. She just comes in a Romani flavor. In the book, the only impressive thing she does is save Pierre in the Court of Miracles. Most of the time, all she does is look pretty, give perfonances and obsess about Pheobus. She is utterly pathetic. She is little to nothing like the Disney version.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

There are some more things about the Romani that are especially bad. It is something beyond the problem of Esmeralda. The Court of Miracles is pretty messed up. I think it is worse in the book than the Disney movie. In the movie, it is really a place set up as a haven where Romani can hide from Frollo and be safe from the genocide. I think of it like that. Hiding from genocide is a good reason to go underground. Even the disgusting catacomes may be better than having no hiding place at all. Clopin almost hangs Quasimodo and Pheobus for a good reason. Those two are in league with Frollo. If they get back to Frollo, the whole Romani people are doomed. So it is better to kill the two spies than to get all the hidden Romani people killed. The good motive are explained in the movie. It just takes close listening of the Romani dialog and song lyrics of the scene. I would argue that this near killing is done in defesne and so doesn't count as murder. Esmeralda is the only Romani who knew that Quasimodo and Pheobus are going though redemption. So she saves them and explains how they have turned good. There is a similar scene much earlier in the book. It is worse. There is the Court of Miracles. Clopin almost hangs Pierre. Esmeralda saves Pierre. Note that this Pierre guy is not in the Disney version. It can be difficult to follow the book, due to the excessive worldbuilding and purple prose. Pierre doesn't seem like a treat. He is just a simple poet. He stumbles upon the Court of Miracles because he was following Esmeralda or simply wandered in by chance. When this guy almost gets killed, it does seem like murder. If the Romani didn't want him in there, they should have just kicked him out. At most, guards could carry the guy to the exit and through him out. This scene makes the Romani murderous, and makes them seem so much worse. the book really piles on the Romani stereotypes. There are a couple that is particularly bad. One is that the book claims that the Romani steal and eat babies. I was shocked and appalled by this. I don't know much about Romani culture. However I do believe that Romani would never do this. It is too atrocious for anyone. Maybe eating babies should go along with incest as universal taboos. This thing reminds me of the Pizzagate conspiracy theory. I thought it was paranoid and delusional enough to have this theory and attack liberal politicians. Now I see that liberal politicians are not alone. I heard of the same accusation being made against the Jews. Now I have learned that the same thing happened to the Romani. This kind of conspiracy theory is so disgusting and wrong. It shouldn't be done regardless of who is targeted. There are other ways that Romani parrallel Jews in the way they are oppressed. Both were victims of the Holocaust. I do appreciate this video briefly covering Romani genocide during the Holocaust. It is important to rember this attrocity so it never happens again. Jews are the most famous examples of Holocaust victims. However there were a variety of other people that were killed off too. Anybody that didn't fit some "Aryan ideal", were likely to be killed. There are a few stereotypes that are bad because they are flat out wrong. My number one pet peeve is the stereotype that Jews are greedy and work with the financial industry. There are several things wrong with this sterotype. One problem is that it is not the Jews' fault that they are sterotyped the way they are.In the olden days, people were very antisemitic. So they didn't let Jews work in many kinds of careers because of thier racism. Finances was one of the very few career options opean. So Jews went in that direction out of sheer desperation. It was either work in finances or not making a living at all. This contributed with a false stereotype. This video does shed an interesting light on Romani stereotypes. I find that Romani have thier own false sterotype. It is that they are so free, independent and wandering. The Romani was not actually at fault thouh. People were very racist against Romani. They wouldn't let the Romani move into thier nehborhoods and settle down. So the Romani were nomadic out of sheer deperation. Settleing down wasn't an option for them. So it is ever travel from place to place or not travel at all.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

The religious aspect of Hunchback of Notre Dame is intriguing. I am a Pagan person. I gravitate towards stories that have to do with Paganism in some way. Some of my favorite Disney movies have Paganism. This would be Hercules, Moana, Brother Bear and even Frozen 2. This is good stuff. Interestingly Hunchback of Notre Dame goes right beside it. Yet it is different. It is about Christianity instead. Yet I still find it appealing in some way. The Christians claim that Satan is their biggest enemy. However in the real world, it is Pagans that are their biggest enemy. Pagans are not Satanic at all, despite their false and negative stereotypes. They are just a separate religion that focuses on nature and polytheism. They have nothing to do with neither angels nor demons. There is a lot of clashing between the groups. Christians hate the Pagans for not following God. Pagans hate Christians for aggressive proselytizing. I personally can't get into Christianity. There are way too many issues with tyranny and proselitizing. I don't know if Romani were actually Pagan in real life. However one thing they do have in common is an affinity for divination. This divination can be seen as "whichcraft". So the Romani in the Hunchback of Notre Dame seem similar enough to Pagans, due their mysticism making them a target for persecution. Hunchback of Notre Dame is a rare case, where a story challenges Christianity and shows its downside. The only other cases I have seen is DaVinchi Code and His Dark Materials. I like these kinds of stories, because they are so refreshing. It is nice to show the bad side of Christians for a change and not make them so goody goody. It also fits my view of them a little bit better. I am okay with other people having different religious beliefs than me, and long as they respect the different beliefs of others. Christians have ben dominant since Roman times. There are bad people in the religion that oppress others. that ca ruin the religion for me. I even have a more positive view on Jews and Muslims despite the religions being similar. These two groups tend to be the victoms of discrimination not the perpitrater. Hunchback of Notre Dame. may have pretty imagery of the cathedral However it really shows what the Christans can be like when they grow currupt. The burning of Esmeralda in the Disney movie shows what Christians can be like at thier worst. The critism of Christianity is very apparent.in Disney movie. Even when I was a kid, I get the impression.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Frollo is a very wierd character. I was fond of him for a long time. He is my favorite Disney villain. Also "Hellfire" is my favorite villain song of all time. My favorite villains are ones with a religious or political ideology. They do evil things, but they think they are doing good. Frollo works in this way. He is basically a corrupt Christian that burns witches. That in itself makes for a complex and interesting villain. I do like how complex Frollo is on that part alone. Yet recently I think Frollo a bit too complex. In the Disney movie there is some wierd stuff. Frollo is a judge. However he talks about Christianity so much he may as well be a priest. He also has some lust for Esmeralda for some reason. When I was a kid I was very confused about this. Even now I find it odd. I guess sexual repression can be an issue for Christian clergy. However lusting on a Romani woman while simultaneously committing genocide on her people is still odd. If Frollo was lusting on a regular white French woman, it would make a lot more sense. In the book Frollo is even wierder. He is such an egghead. He is into science. He also deals with mystical stuff like astrology and alchemy. That is so wierd. I can understand that some intellectual ability is nesesary for reading the Bible and other sacred texts. Teaching Quasimodo how to read is fine. However there are areas that the Church despises, and so no clergy worth there salt would touch with a ten foot pole. One part is the science thing. The Church hates science. Scientists are second to Pagans in terms of biggest real world enemies to Christians. A big no no is all that mystical stuff. It is very hypocritical for Frollo to give Esmeralda a hard time about practicing whichcraft while simultaneously doing magic himself. One of the problems of Christians is hypocrisy. However the taboo against magic is something they are very good at obeying. At most they will just do thier own Christian rituals and claim divine intervention as "miracles". I would argue that holy magic is still magic. However Christians do make this sharp distinction and stick with things that are explicitly linked to the power of the Christian God. Having Frolo go outside it doesn't make sense. I was hoping for the book to go into the issues of Christianity in greater depth than the Disney movie. I find that it doesn't. It just clarifies that Frollo is a priest and that he lusts over Esmeralda. That is about it. I find it disappointing. I would have liked for the story to go into more detail into how Christianity screws up. His Dark Materials goes through quite a lot of issues relating to Christianity. I made my own story with Christian commentary. I have that in more detail. I focus on the Catholic vs. Protestant divide and even get into multiple denominations. I find this divide intriguing. Not only do Chrstians fight against non-Christians, but they also fight against eachother. This makes things all the more disturbing. The bloodshed in the Reformation times and in Ireland is seriously screwed up. I can see the pros and cons for for sides. I do have some preference for Catholics They borrow a lot of stuff from Paganism to soften the blow and make conversion easier. They are especially similar to Roman paganism. I find this softening makes Catholics more appealing than Protestants. Notre Dame Catherdral is specifically a Catholic cathedral. I think there is a lot of potential to go over the details of Catholicism and debate thier merits. That would make the story a lot deeper and more interesting. This video has talk about improvement towards the end. I like that. Generally older stories are less PC and they were a product of their times. I am checking out old stories recently. I find that classic literature is such a minefield. I never know what will jump up and be offensive. I know recent examples. I watched the Gone with the Wind movie. It was offensive for being extremely racist against black people. It is also screwed up to show the American Civil War and depict Confederates as heroes and Unionists as villains. I powered through all four hours. Then I deemed the movie unwatchable. During the recent Christmas season. I got interested in Charles Dickens. His stories are interesting for social commentary about classism, and there is good intentions behind it. However there can still be problems. I listened to audiobooks while doing puzzles I got for Christmas. First there is Chrstmas Carol, which is fitting for the holiday. I listened to the audiobook twice. Then I watched the Micky Mouse and Muppet adaptations. This story is offensive for being ableist. Tiny Tim isn't great representation of disabled people. At least it is relativly mild. Then I listened to the audiobook for Tale of Two Cities. This story is offensive for being racist against the French. It is also screwed up to show the French Revolution and depict French rebels as villains. The main villain is Madame Defarge. She is a traumitized woman on top of all that. She comes across as misogynistic in her depiction. Then I listened to the audiobook for Hunchback of Notre Dame. It is offensive for being very racist against the Romani. Quasimodo also comes across as an ablest depiction. This is significantly worse than Tiny Tim. At least there was a lot of effort to make Tiny Tim sympathetic and kind. His death is treated as a big tragedy and it is narrowly avoided. I am currently listening to the Oliver Twist audiobook. I am a little over halfway through. This story is offensive due to antisemitism. This is with the character of Fagin. There is a disturbing trend where Fagain is not called by name as much as other characters. Instead he is refered to as "the Jew". This is rediculously repetitive, and it is pretty dehuminizing. I find that old litereature can be messed up. Hunchback isn't alone. I think that it is best for current storytellers to aim for more PC stories. Not only does it shows respect for an increasingly diverse audience, but it will also age better. Making more PC Adaptations to old stories is a good thing. The origionals should still be preserved and not be censored. However I would like to add disclaimers at the front. It is like the disclaimers in old racist cartoons.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

The Disney movie has made massive improvements in making the story more PC. It makes attempts to subvert the racism of the Romani. There is good intentions there. I do like the Pocahontas movie. It is usually condemed for being cliched and racist. This video is a rare case where Pocahontas is portrayed in a positive light. If Hunchback of Notre Dame is worse, than it speaks volumes of how bad it is. I collected Disney DVDs in the 2000s. I enjoyed watching the behind the scenes documentaries. I think I have seen both the Hunchback of Notre Dame and the Pocahontas ones. Maybe both movies are cases of Disney trying to be more supportive of non-white races but making failings. Aladdin is like this too. Later there will be better depictions such as Moana. Pocahontas tries to do good by making the Native Americans sympathetic and showing what should have happened in a historical event. It backfired when people accused it of white washing history. Denying past atrocities enables the whites and comes off as racist. I think the James Cameron movie Avatar is a huge improvement on the Pocahontas story. The main improvment is that it is an origional story in an exotic sci fi setting. This gives freedom to show what should happen in colonialism and give a happy ending without worrying about rewriting history. If Disney has made a big improvement on Hunchback of Notre Dame, I am confident it can be improved further. Here are my suggestions. The biggest one I thought of is to drop the G word entirely. The story should only say Romani and Roma. This video suggested hiring ROmani consultants. That is an amazing idea. Lets do that too. I thought of more improvements while watching the video. Esmeralda should be like her movie version. SHe should be just as strong if not stronger. I forgot to mention this, but I learned something disturbing. The idea of a Romani woman being an exotic fetish is not just in Esmeralda. It is an actual stereotype. Yikes! I can see that the Disney version still goes into this stereotype. I suggest an improved Esmeralda should tone this down even further. Have her be in the same league as other female leads in Disney movies. Esmeralda can still be pretty. She can have two love interests, Phebus and Quasimodo. However there shouldn't be much besides that. Two many men are after this poor woman and it is creepy. Only having one or two is enough. I would like to have Quasimodo get Esmeralda in the end. They can connect so much better. It would also be better if Esmeralda wore more modest clothing. This video shows great pictures of modest Romani dresses. Just do something like that. In Aladdin, it was pretty cool that Jasmine lampshades her otherwise problematic role in the plot. She talks about how she is not a prize to be won, and that she should make her own choice. I would like Esmeralda to say something like that. Other Romani should be improved in depiction. They should be as sympathic as possible within the context of the setting. Maybe there is a way to design the characters better, if they were animated. I would like multiple Romani characters, and make them diverse. That can do a lot for toning down the steroetyping. For all of the failings of the book, I thought it was pretty cool that Clopin acts like an actual king of the Romani. He really takes charge. In the Disney version, he got shafted real bad. He is demoted to comic relief. He doesn't show up very often. He hardly does anything besides sing. Even his name is only mentioned once. I think it would be so much better if Clopin becam a dignified leader of the Romani. I would also like him to be protrayed in a sympathetic light. Finally I would like to make some changes to Frollo. He would still be a currupt priest. He would hate Esmeralda and the Romani in general. He would discriminate against them. I would like Frollo to adopt Quasimodo out of the goodness of his heart to make him seem more sympathetic. The backstory has no baby swapping, and so Esmeralda is an actual Romani person. I thought it was horrible for her backstory to be based on baby stealing. Frollo has no involvment with science, magic or lust. I came up with a way to flesh out his character in a way that makes sense. I would like Frollo to sell indulgences. This is an actual atrocity that Catholic clergy did in real life. It was the biggest thing that provoked Protestant rebellion during the Reformation. Victor Hugo goes on and on about architexture. However beneath the grandeur there is a horrid underbelly. Showing the good and bad parts would make the story more nuanced and interesting. Cathedrals are so big and fancy, they are like a castle. A building like that is always going to be very expensive. The Catholic priests did some really screwed up crap in order to aquire the money to pay for that. I can totally reimagine Frollo being a greedy priest that lives in the lap of luxury in Notre Dame cathedral. There is a big home, nice clothes, delicious food, and everything else. He runs a whole indulgence buissness to line his pockets with more wealth. This can starkly contrast with how impoverished the Romani people seem. The Disney has a lot of deep themes about religion, racism and sexism. One could deepen things by adding classism. Maybe Frollo could even make a deal with Esmeralda. She has to chose between being executed or paying a premium to live and be saved. Esmeralda is still screwed. Even if she wanted to pay up, she wouldn't be able to afford it. Having a Christian priest be greedy is a major form of hypocrisy. However it is a hypocrisy that occors in real life. So it still makes sense. That would make Frollo interesting and complex while still making sense as a single character.

[@cateering]

@@c.d.dailey8013 afaik, historically, they actually killed those who wandered there, so it is pretty accurate. It's not necessarily going out of its way to portray them as ruthless criminals (the book part about the court of miracles, not the book itself, which i haven't read), maybe it was just trying to stay true to what was known at the time? also i know this comment is super old but i'm hyperfixating on this movie atm lol

[@coldestboi3228]

I never realised how much was wrong with the huntchback of notre dame I mean I still like it but thanks for showing this stuff

[@imthecoolestguyalive]

Oh, DUDE, I don't think I will ever be able to move on from the first time I ever saw romani people portrayed. It's in this otherwise pretty good russian cartoon, but the entire franchise of _eleven movies_ that spawned from it has been depicting romani people as the rag-wearing stuff-stealing palm-reading mysterious tricksters. Granted, I don't think there has ever been a piece of animated russian media without some sort of disgusting racist garbage, but it was the first exposure in my life to the romani people. The longer I think about how so, so much of our culture is built up on so many harmful and horrific things the more depressing it gets. I was fortunate enough to have been educated on the romani and their actual culture before, but this video is still very helpful. Thank you for the video essay.

[@Vi-ob1yu]

I'll be making comments as I watch... So, the extra weird thing about the whole "Gypsy snuggle up with corpses" thing in Hunchback, is that I've been given the impression that Romani typically like to avoid Hospitals and graveyards, or at least some do. Like, a kinda cultural phobia.

[@Vi-ob1yu]

at 17:48 you describe the romani's depicted in the film as "hideous". TBH, those romani are no worse looking than most of the white people in crowds and such. In fact, the two men in that pic look better than me. So... Ouch. :/

[@ianesgrecia8568]

"Who was not raised on the culture" That speaks of all. The people who find 'gypsy' offensive are more of NON-gypsies them the Romani people themselves. Most of them actualy dont CARE. It's the same case with "African-descendent' and the worse of all "Lantinex" The last one is not only an actual OFENSE TO THE LANGUAGE but only used by people who normally didn't even grown up on a latin speaking country or even speak the idiom. Latina and Latino is not about gender of the people but gender OF THE WORD. So it's "Povo latinO" (latin people) and "pessoa latinA" (latin person).

[@Swiftstart]

“My opinions do not reflect those of all roma people” My romani relative who was in contact with my father does not use the word gypsy, nor do those in the vast majority of articles and books I read while doing my research. As with any slur in any marginalized group there will be those who do not care and those who do. I haven’t personally seen “African descendant” used except in cases to make it clear that they are not African American but African English or when otherwise referring to descendants on a world wide scale. As for latine(x), I have seen some people of Hispanic ancestry use it and others not. I will say however that you are incorrect about it not being about gender. I’m no fluent spanish speaker but have taken about 2-3 years of spanish. My understanding is that if you have 30 women in a room they are Latinas, but if you add 1 man to the room it becomes Latinos. It’s a basic grammar rule of the language. In this instance It has nothing to do with the gender of the word for person or people but rather with the makeup of the people themselves. The same is the case in other gendered languages like French, which my sister Fox has taken a lot of. I stand on the boat that if a word is seen as a slur or is upsetting to some number of people, then out of respect to them, I won’t use it.

[@ianesgrecia8568]

@@Swiftstart Darling, I'm a 'pessoa latina' myself, born and raised on a latin speaking coutry, and that doesnt mean i'm female. The 'Eles' and 'Elas' in latin language is diferent and here's the thing: 'Eles' is like 'guys' that dont exclude the other gender but generalize it. As the '1 man on a room become latinos' is ridiculous because, AGAIN, it's more of the WORD YOU ARE USING. "Pessoas latinas" can be 100 Men without a single woman and "Grupo Latino" Can be a female only group. But people like some insist on saying "Grupo de mulheres latinas" because aparently if you don't say their gender its ofensive. And curiously "Gropo de homens latinos" is, by feminists "Excludent and ofensive to woman" So yeah. That's equality for ya.

[@ianesgrecia8568]

@@Swiftstart And just so that you don't mistake again, Latinos are NOT only 'spanish speaking'. There are many others idioms of latin ancestry that are even closer to the source like portuguese. So in you 'in on boat to not upset a 1% of people" you basically excluded them and upset them. Good luck with that

[@user-yc6iw7gm9q]

@@ianesgrecia8568 you're so bitter and for what?🤣 Stay mad sis

[@TheFlameBladeWielder]

You're completely wrong on that, the World Romani Congress consider it a slur. literally just look into it before you talk out your ass

[@joshualowe959]

Hunchback tackled many taboo subjects like religion & genocide

[@TheNotverysocial]

There is a whole chapter of the book dedicated solely to trying to make the reader feel bad about gallows and pillories falling into disrepair and disuse referring to the square in front. Another telling the human story goes into a brief tangent on how all the buildings of the period had giant basements to serve a ballasts. A much later one has parliament doing its business unrelated to the main cast, going on and on about specific details about taxes before going into sanctuary repealment. Then the entire catacomb at the end needs no description, nor the nobody who sent the soldiers into it. They all feel like padding, and it does not even try to pretend it isn't.

[@Slav_Stiibun]

We have to also look at the fact that Roma people for years were forced to never be educated so a lot of their history is cloaked in mystery due to Oral tradition becoming unclear or non-existent. Due to this what we know about them in history comes from very biased sources. Also it depends where you go when it comes to learning about Romani. I'd say Disney kind of combined every regional culture of Romani and called it good. That's why Esmeralda's clothing and dancing resembles belly dancing and flamanca styles.

[@amyb5152]

Look at you! Such a wonderful video and right on point. Do you know what ancestor group you come from?

[@xxhappynoodlexx1336]

I have one question that I hope doesn't sound disrespectful but is it okay to watch the hunchback of notre dame if you don't excuse the stereotypes? Or should it not be watched anymore? I really like watching the movie but I also don't wanna do something wrong

[@Swiftstart]

Its perfectly fine to still watch and enjoy Hunchback! It has beautiful animation and a stunning soundtrack. Whats important with it- and other media that falls into this is to be concientous of its flaws at the same time :)

[@xxhappynoodlexx1336]

@@SwiftstartThank you for clearing things up for me!

[@sirdaedric9041]

The main problem with hunchback of notra dame is the second version

[@Swiftstart]

Assuming you mean the unspeakably horrible misguided unfathomable sequel, then yes xD

[@sofiagaliana2549]

You should check out the musical. It still has a lot of these problems, but does make improvements.

[@Gypsygeekfreak17]

To be fair it isn’t a slur where I’m from in fact we like that word

[@breezy3154]

We have bigger problems than what corporate goons think of us

[@Swiftstart]

Of course! The terrible thing is that those corporations are frequently the only mouthpiece that everyday people will have when it comes to learning about us. And if what they learn is lies, then it’s a lot harder for genuine help or sympathy to be applied to the real people

[@breezy3154]

@@Swiftstart we will get our day eventually

[@scottpetersen672]

All the revolting stereotypes condemning your Romani ethnicity aside, what did you think of the other elements of The Hunchback Of The Norte Dame. There are some elements aside from its false anti racist message that make it stand out among Disney films. For example, the villain of the movie Frollo is pretty realistic for a Disney villain. He’s a self dishonest religious fanatic and there are plenty of people like that in real life. Side Note: I’m not trying to ignore the Romani stereotypes in the film. They are nothing short of inexcusable after all and I’m sorry your ethnicity has to put up with that. I just want to get a look at the positive as well as the negative.

[@_somerandomguyontheinternet_]

Hellfire is still one of the best Disney villain songs and the score is amazing, not to mention the visuals are great (especially for the time). Again, same disclaimer about shitty stereotypes.

[@scottpetersen672]

@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ I know. Hellfire was a great song. I really loved it. Also, thank you for taking into account the negative stereotypes and seeing them for the racism that they are.

[@undertaleisgood4052]

this is why she doesnt count as a disney princess

[@lazeywinde6113]

Small victory, the invasive lymantria dispar moth has had its common name changed from gypsy to spongy moth. A lot of people still don't get how problematic it is to call an invasive caterpillar that needs to be eradicated after a slur for a people that had nearly been eradicated. The arguments people use to justify continuing to use the slur are ridiculous, you have probably heard them all. I admit when I was a kid I was completely clueless and loved that movie. I and a friend even dressed up "as gypsies" for Halloween- something I cringe to remember. I know better now and try to do better.

[@comparsa1]

I'm sorry I lost all respect for this video when you said "Pocahontas and Helena are good representations" as a Latina I can say that Helena de Avalor is HORRIBLE and brings together all the stereotypes that Latinos hate the most and in the case of Pocahontas I must mention that they sexualized and! and they aged a 14-year-old girl? and did they look good to the settlers? and it is a tragic real life story of a Native American girl who was taken to England, that is disrespectful

[@Swiftstart]

Hi there! Believe me, I am more than aware that Pocahontas and Elena are complicated hot messes. I brushed on Pocahontas briefly in the video and considered adding a section on her also being problematic but changed my mind, wanting to keep the focus on Hunchback. Now I realize I really should have been more explicitly clear on the hardcore sexualization and exoticism that runs rampant in her movie and conception. But I am still very new to making videos such as these. As such, I plan on making an entire other video on the sexualized nightmare that is Disney's Pocahontas, for another project I actually stumbled on an interview with one of her designers who made it clear that his goal was to make her as idealized and attractive as possible. Needless to say, it was down right gross. And while they did consult with the Powhatan people it was very limited and not great. My arguments in favor of Pocahontas is entirely that they actually tried. Or rather, at least pretended to care while they capitalized on a marginalized peoples history. They actually hired consultants, used First Peoples voice actors and at least pretended to make an effort. Now I personally agree and think that Pocahontas probably never should have been made. It's a tragedy that should never have been made into a sparkly singing Disney princess movie. For a class I saw a decently accurate adaptation of the Pocahontas story, "The New World", (it is breathtakingly boring and the guy who plays John Smith has the acting range of a teaspoon, so I don't recommend it to anyone) and just, yea, its a grown up story. It barely even works as a live action film for adults. Shes a child. This is creepy and gross. Disney's creative teams were on drugs when they proposed hunchback and Pocahontas. As for Elena, I've covered how terrible she is in previous videos on this channel. My first ever video "Elena of Avalor: Rise of an Evil Queen" spends an hour covering everything from her character flaws to her wildly flawed setting. Admittedly it does not go too heavily into Latino stereotypes, but I did not feel comfortable covering those as I am not of Hispanic ancestry and am not well versed in those specifics. I did have a few of my Latino friends look over it however in order to be safe. But again, they made a point of trying. And some episodes manage to do a brilliant job of covering the many different forms of Latino culture out there- my friends I mentioned before were especially impressed with the first Navidad episode, as in the song that explains how different people celebrate Navidad they were able to pick out the ways that each of their particular families or villages choose to do so. But at the same time we have the fiery, hot headed female protagonist who thinks entirely emotionally to a ridiculous fault. And like, on the side character front, Armando is unquestionably based on the depiction of freaking Sancho Panza in the 1972 Man de la Mancha, (take that as you will). As for my gentle mention of it in this video, I was perhaps overly kind to Elena so that I wouldn't seem like a mad woman who does nothing but bash it. I have a degree in history and anthropology and that greatly influences my perspectives on media such as Pocahontas, Hunchback and Elena of Avalor. It sadly is not a communications degree and sometimes I make goofs like not explicitly explaining things and assuming a single picture with a funny caption will do the trick to get my point across. I wish now that I could go back and edit in a section on Pocahontas that explicitly points out its flaws, but its sadly too late for that. I am so sorry for this misunderstanding!

[@comparsa1]

@@Swiftstart Do not worry I was very aggressive, lately many people have "pretended" concern about the problems of Latinos but they never try to hear us and that had me very defensive, I understand your point and do not worry thanks for this explanation

[@Juan.Louis.]

The problem is that he's a goddamn deformed hunchback and that wins over a beautiful woman. But all that is against nature and the influence of this movie is too great for children. Its horrible!

[@laughingjack85]

Damn that puts the romance where they pushed Phoebus and Esmeralda together into a altogether more insidious light. I was thinking of ableism but this probably means that it wasnt the only reason they did it.

[@AshePBlack]

It's actually a gross relationship. In book Esmeralda was 16 and Phoebus was engaged or married

[@cateering]

@@AshePBlack and the book doesn't try to portray it as something good, not once. It is emphasized that while Esmeralda is ""crushing"" on him and wants him to love her romentically (i would say that as a young girl, she didn't know any better?), while he just wanted to use her for sex. It is gross but it's normal to include such elements in novels. it doesn't mean the author approves of it ofc

[@cateering]

quasimodo needed a friend more than anything, forcing a rushed romance upon him would've honestly been a terrible choice, but what exactly does it have to do with ableism???

[@Gypsygeekfreak17]

this is what pisses me off in that one part of the video where they said roma dont count they dont care cause its not part of their ideals and group

[@Swiftstart]

This dude blew my mind with how breathtakingly conceited and stupid he was. I could write entire video essays on this guy- the roma don’t count thing was just the icing On the cake. I have no idea how he has a degree in anthropology or ever passed any classes related to the study of culture

[@Spinnradler]

Who did say that? Frollo?

[@Swiftstart]

@@Spinnradler fellow I referenced in my video who I met in real life who said that being roma dosen't count as an ethnic minority

[@Spinnradler]

@@Swiftstart o, excuse me. I misunderstood!

[@Swiftstart]

@@Spinnradler totally ok ^^

[@eviljust9793]

Anti-racist? Who ever saw this film as such. The darkest film from Disney yes. It's not that deep though

[@Swiftstart]

I think you might want to look at the film again because it’s not hard to see why Plenty of people do see it as an anti-racism film. Especially with a few key moments like these: - Esmeralda’s line to Frollo when freeing quasi during the Feast of Fools : You mistreat this poor boy the same way you mistreat my people. You speak of justice, yet you are cruel to those most in need of your help. - Frollo comparing Roma to ants and Phoebus being horrified (this scene especially) - the lengthy montage showing Frollos men wrecking / destroying Roma homes while hunting for Esmeralda - the entire beginning where the whole reason Quasi lives with Frollo is because Frollo hates his people so much he hunts them down and automatically assumes the mother is hiding “stolen goods no doubt” - really just anytime that Frollo talks about the “gypsy vermin” So yea. It has lots of anti-racism themes. It is the worlds shallowest anti-racism movie as this video discusses, but on top of the lust/murder/religion it has a ongoing anti-racism theme.

[@eviljust9793]

@@Swiftstart Okey this is one of the few times that a creator had replied me. Thank you my freind. But like Muslim and Jewish folk, Romani folk are a primarily religious folk. The descrimination of those type of is call Religophobia. It is wrong to ignore the many types of predjudice.

[@Swiftstart]

​@@eviljust9793 Sorry for the late reply, I got my second covid shot yesterday and was completely bedridden. I love talking to everyone and am happy to chat! :D In terms of religiophobia and recognizing other forms of prejudice, you raise a good point but you are mistaken, as Roma is an ethnic group. They follow many religions, my own family having been followers of the church of England. There may be common cultural beliefs but they are as a whole an ethnic minority and not a religious group. In the case of the Jewish people, they are a unique case. There are simultaneously an ethnic group and a religious one. You can be Jewish ethnically but not Jewish religiously, and vice versa. This is part of the the reason why unique terms have developed for describing these more 'niche' forms of prejudice, such as antisemitism which is prejudice against the Jewish people as opposed to anti-Judaism, which is against the religion. Frequently they are conflated together which doesn't help with the confusion. Islam meanwhile is specifically a religion and is practiced by people worldwide, including Roma. Happy to chat, hope this helps and makes sense- my brain is still a little foggy from that shot!

[@eviljust9793]

@@SwiftstartI truly hope you are better and by all means as a mixed cultural individual queer person I don't mean any hate or harm I just don't see any racist meaning in this film but I see your point. In the end let's just agree to disagree. My sincere apologies.

[@AshePBlack]

I like how much reserach you did, and obviously you are right on background and history. However the guy who wrote le mis also wrote hunchback. But i have come to the conclusion after researching much fiction i dont want real representation, leave it in fiction. Why? Because theres a rabbit hole where writers do certain stuff too long to list here. Also lets discuss frollo, they are bashing on catholic church how preists can have lust issues. Also in beginning you got 1 thing wrong. In book esmeralda was not high born. Her mother was a prostitute and she was taken by romani. Also frollo wasnt exactly kind to Quasimodo. He didnt teach him well and all he did was house him. If thats bar for kindness, thats low bar. Also you cant expect disney to be accurate ever. But.... Did you see all the vids saying disney does subliminal messaging? Why would you ever want them to accurately get first to rep romani accurately? Id not trust em. Truth must get out but....why by disney. Also i soo hate eye vs skin color debate. If you believe bible, adam and eve had genetics for now whats all ethnicity these days, while is unlikely romani can have green eyes, it depends who marries whom although green eyes are rare in anybody. Please get genetics right too. Also if in book if esmeralda had green eyes she was french for crying out loud. I know what disney did but again id not try to unravl why disney does stuff on purpose. Just saying. In musical a Quasimodo was deaf. Also i like barebones of story which is prolly frollo issue, church persecution of innocent people but yes they need do better at repping people. But for plot to work im not saying have romani take agnes but have somebody. Also as much as bad steriotypes exist there still is always one in any ethnicity thats a bad apple. Like if in end the romani did take baby agnes dont have her make cracks at their lifestyle because of course thats whats being misrepped. Also so many plots of law and order are a mother who lost a baby wants a new one, so i suppose if romani didnt take agnes they could use a plot based on real phycological issues

[@paltrax]

I wish this wasn't a Disney movie there is some serious stuff being shown in it but then its put next to a song and dance number cause funny creatures be funny.. Wizard of the coast is hasbro these days so another major corporation

[@amethyst4990]

There are Turkish Roma. Appreciate your video ❤

[@3rdtimesthecharm376]

Oh, how terrible-! Anyway-

[@TheCaptainSquid]

Very poor scholarship and understanding of Hugo's novel. Deeply disappointing. In terms of scenery/architectural description, that encompasses about two chapters in book three, with occasional detours to describe pieces like the non-elaborate pillory in the place de greve. Hugo's historical tangents are far more prevalent and may be a greater source of difficulty for modern readers than his scenery descriptions. The notion of Esmeralda as being a sexual fantasy is not at all rooted in Hugo's novel. The character Gringoire remarks that he speculates that she doesn't even know the difference between men and women, and when Phoebus tries to seduce her sexually, she is upset and doesn't know what to do. Your mention of the false equation of the Romani as being from Egypt is something that Hugo actually critiques in the book, which is deeply clear to anybody who actually read it instead of painting sequins onto some anime cosplay. The origin and location of the Romani have historically been bastardized and misrepresented (hence the name Gypsy, derived from Egyptian). Hence, characters speculate on her origin - and get it wrong - as so many do with their lack of understanding of the Romani. That is the reason why her name is Spanish - as well as why she sings old Spanish ballads that she doesn't understand the words for. That is why the characters claim she is from Bohemia. Why her patriarch is referred to as the Duke of Egypt (incidentally - that character is far more accurate to accuse as being a racist depiction.) As for the depictions of the Romani in the Disney film, that is much better researched. One thing I want to mention is that the more rounded appearance of them is rooted in a desire to be a more positive depiction. Characters were modeled after architecture, with villains being lanky and angular and with heroes being rounded and softer. Frollo is tall and his features are sharp, whereas Quasimodo is very rounded with soft edges, and if you read Steven Rebello's The Art of The Hunchback of Notre Dame, there's a lot more detail on this. However - while this may be the intention - the effect does not seem to be on screen. In addition, your criticism that the change from the court of miracles from being an enclave of beggars, sham soldiers, thieves, jews, Romani, and so on to being solely for the Romani, while still keeping many of the elements of crime and vagarancy. The on screen effect is racist and socialization. However, your ascertion that you are not white is not accurate. If you live outside of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa, there simply is not the severe racism, discrimination, and outright hate towards Roamni that other groups face. The United States does not have that legacy of anti-romani racism. Hence, your attempt to get a minority scholarship in America (I believe) while you live and act as a white person and benefit from white supremacy is really gross. It's the same thing as the "Irish were slaves" argument, it's just use to dimish the struggles of black and brown people

[@amyr3718]

Ooo, a video from a small channel talking about a deeply personal subject? Better write a thesis in the comments section so I can feel an inch taller. Excuse me and everybody else for not taking anything you say seriously when you legitimately believe that being white and being Romani is the same thing. This is obstinately false. Should you wish to educate yourself, there is a plethora of academic research on the subject, sourced, cited, and researched. The most elementary of google searches will hand you these results on a silver platter, so you look incredibly uninformed and foolish for equating being Romani and being white. If you want to flex your skinny neurons on a creator, why don't you go bully Lindsay Ellis, or someone with a larger platform.

[@TheCaptainSquid]

@@amyr3718 Lindsey Ellis has been bullied and abused on the internet since 2008. Why on Earth would you advocate for online harassment? And of course Romani are not "white-white" but many are white passing and in a culture that does not have the baggage of the extreme anti-romani racism of Europe, the middle east, and North Africa, white passing in a white supremacist society becomes functionally white. Think about it, in America if you appear to be white, is a police officer more likely to shoot you? No. And as for trying to feel an inch taller? That's silly. This person put in a great deal of effort, especially for a small channel, but the points that were ignorant of Hugo's novel were really discouraging, especially since the creator's work on the parts about the Disney movie and of race in general were much stronger. I do wish she went into the merchandise for the Disney film, which is much more guilty of promoting anti-romani racism. Perhaps with the exception of using Pocahontas as a positive example of race. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't all the consulting of Powhatan people surface level, and the filmmakers didn't listen to them? It's not like this was some silly throw away video. It's a video essay, worthy of engaging with.

[@amyr3718]

@@TheCaptainSquid 1- Lindsay Ellis's channel is large enough that the constant stream of haters blends into the background. this is not the case with small channels. 2- let us refer to your original comment where you called this creator "gross" for discussing the obstinately real (both historically and currently) persecution of their ancestors, and what you choose to do with your comment is belittle and insult an earnest effort to engage with the material from this lens. yet you dishonestly paint this young woman as claiming it is SHE who is worthy of critique for the crime of what? discussing her ancestors? discussing the persecution of her ethnic group? do you not know that trauma is inter-generational? that trauma quite literally changes your DNA expression? Her insight into this topic is not pedestrian. 3- You clearly feel the need to put this creator in their place. this video is not about the novel. Its is a video about the movie.

[@TheCaptainSquid]

@@amyr3718 Ellis was not big when she started and was met with constant abuse and harassment for her gender. She wasn't famous in 2008, she was a college student that won an internet contest. the gross part is trying to apply for a scholarship while being white passing and not raised in that culture. In the United States, if you are considered "white" and have white privilege you shouldn't try to take scholarships away from latinx, black, south asian, BIPOC in general. The very real persecution of her ancestors and indeed Romani people in general is not at all what I was referring to. The author talks a great deal about the novel about a third of the video. If this was a silly surface level KZbin video it wouldn't be worth engaging with seriously. There is very clear effort.

[@Swiftstart]

​@@TheCaptainSquid So I replied to this already but it looks like youtube is doing a bad. If you wind up with 2 lengthy replies from me, apologies. For starters: let me make it clear that I did not apply for a minority scholarship. That would have been distasteful and wrong of me, given my background. I simplified that story for the sake of the video and for brevity. What I did not mention is that one of the two students was a white individual who claimed Native American ancestry to get the scholarship and was bragging about it. So, I spoke up. The point of that story is that he did not believe that Roma are a real ethnic group. He seemed to believe that it is a life-style choice or heavens knows what else. I am fully aware of the complicated nature of my ethnic identity. I am a second generation immigrant, my father is from England. I am both white and romani, and those are not mutually exclusive. As for Hunchback, I am aware that the section on the book is weaker than the other parts of the video. I read the book over 6 years ago, as I note in the video. And while I did review and re-read some portions for research portions, and also read a handful of scholarly articles, I am aware that it is the weakest point. That said, many people have written on the problematic depiction of the Romani in the book, and especially on the portrayal of Esmeralda. Even with my shakey knowledge it is inescapable that the book is still racist- the child theft alone says as much. I do make mention of the Powhatan's consultation being limited and the work with Pocahontas being very bare min (it's still a hot mess of a movie), especially compared to modern works like Moana, but the point is that they tried. They didn't even try with Hunchback. Additionally, just because Esmeralda does not know what sex is does not mean that she can't be sexualized. If anything, it means that she is even more so sexualized. Sexualization is usually done from the outside by the interested party. And, unfortunately there is a population of people who like the idea of a naïve little lady they can 'train' and 'teach to be a woman'. Thats part of why lolis are so popular. It's clear to me that you are a big fan of hunchback, and I'm sorry that it's as flawed as it is. I love the animation and music of the film. But with the Wanda/Vision debacle and Madame Canardist it seems clear to me that the live action reboot will be another in a chain of Disney failing to recognize the Roma people.

[@arcangel6385]

Would love your opinion on Gypsy sisters and My big fat gypsy wedding.

[@Swiftstart]

Hoo boi. An exploitative offensive to everyone and their mother reality show? I haven’t personally seen either show but I know them by reputation- and by the reputation of some of the networks other shows (toddlers in tiaras for example). From what I can tell those are pure disasters from top to bottom. From people of dubious ancestry, to made up traditions, to just plain the exploitation of poor peoples is just yikes. And all of it for shock factor and ‘look at how weird these people are’ views. Just yikes from top to bottom. 0/10. TLC reality tv is an abomination onto man.

[@arcangel6385]

@@Swiftstart Thank you very much for your detailed reply

[@borzaioana5245]

That movie is racist :0 i’m going to steal all the iron in their house

[@Gypsygeekfreak17]

Hello

[@doctermccduck4798]

Are you left wing?

[@Swiftstart]

I prefer to keep politics off of my channel, but I personally think of myself as neither left nor right wing. Both sides have good and bad ideas about different things.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@Swiftstart Your analysis seems pretty left-wing, why are you playing the enlightened centrist gambit? Centrists don't really call out racism that often

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@Swiftstart Lol the right have absolutely zero good ideas

[@doctermccduck4798]

There's no such thing as racism prejudice is simply something that exists and it's just bullying you have probably been bullied with something other than being a gypsy are you going to are you going to say their phobic or ist no you just going to call them a bully if you have the right sense bullying happens cope with it and move on with your life.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

I guess slavery never happened now

[@foxymetroid]

So, there's no such thing as anyone believing one race or ethnicity is inherently superior to another? Because there are people that believe that and that is the literal definition of racism.

[@nowhyisuck6666]

I didn’t know this was so harmful! I used to really love this movie and enjoyed the characters. I apologize.

[@natiao3589]

Why do you apologize? It's not your fault

[@crikeymikey4966]

You don't have to say sorry for loving the movie and characters lmao. This just gives you more insight, and hopefully will help with your ability to consume critically. Which is something people can do.

[@cheshirerose2001]

You can still love and enjoy a piece of media while acknowledge it's problems and view them in a critical eye

[@doctermccduck4798]

But you have to understand they are people your kind who are like this, there's people of anyone's kind who are like this.

[@emilijaacer04]

Yes,but all characters in the background are represented like that.Which is a hurtfull stereotype of Romani people.

[@doctermccduck4798]

@@emilijaacer04 what your ancestors prettymuch were witches and warlocks and to very honest there's nothing wrong with that because there's been witches and warlocks in any person's ancestry so join the club.

[@emilijaacer04]

@@doctermccduck4798 Are you a romani then?Or anything simular?

[@emilijaacer04]

@@doctermccduck4798 Because if you are not doesn't that kinda come across-the-board as racist?

[@emilijaacer04]

@@doctermccduck4798 Plus magic isn't necessary an evil thing.