The Problem With The Wakanda Battle - Avengers: Infinity War

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Avengers: Infinity War did a ton of stuff right, but one thing I'm not sure about is the big battle in Wakanda. Marvel's biggest MCU film might be missing something...
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[@captainmidnight]

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[@madcircle7311]

captainmidnight we need a Captain Midnight's cut of Avengers Infinity War

[@mexicanmuslim]

captainmidnight You have the right to express your views, Criticize. This is a great video I agree with you, so much missed potential!!! What you say VS this makes this seem braindead, like actually, your points are correct 100%

[@etcarief]

captainmidnight like ragnarok when hela came to asgard , right ?

[@neontheory1109]

really nice video, it would have changed the experience altogether👍

[@Young_Dab]

captainmidnight Your nitpicking on alot of small things in this video that aren't really important. You wanna see bystanders reactions and shit who cares about that!? It's Infinity War!

[@Orgelord]

I found this battle to be a clever red herring for the viewers. It gives us a glimpse of hope and victory as they defeat the rest of the Black Order, especially when Thor arrives and changes the tide of the battle. We end up thinking they might win this and defeat Thanos since they're all alive and Thor has Stormbreaker, until Thanos arrives and annihilates everyone. I do agree with the Hulkbuster though, it was way too comedic and not efficient enough.

[@jvictor3048]

Oscar Flores Yeah I loved the way it first showed Caps' team being overwhelmed and like they were about to lose only to have Thor show up at the last minute and seemingly save everyone. And then Thanos himself appears and they all lose anyway. It added to the overall bleak feeling you got after the brutal fight on Titan.

[@swanpride]

Exactly...it is a constant "oh, they win", "oh, the Black Order was prepared for this, this is bad", "ha, they are winning again", "damn, this was a trap, now Vision is unprotected", "thank god, Thor is there, now we can...", "Thanos...oh sh...." That's exactly what makes the battle so interesting, it's like a chess game put on screen.

[@patmos09]

Except Thor wrecked Thanos's train with almost no contest, the only reason they didn't win entirely was plot contrivance. Thor was bizarrely absent until AFTER Thanos completed his glove. Its shit writing at its finest.

[@competitorcycle1235]

In my opinion, battle of titan was very good, if not better than this scene

[@mgway4661]

Way better

[@zenithjarrett329]

It was indisputably a better than this. One of my favorite MCU fight sequences, in all honesty Indisputable is a stretch cuz I’m sure someone out there could dispute it, but I really like it

[@confusedbakugo1373]

Thanos vs Doctor Strange, though short, was the most comic book thing I've ever seen. Probably the best part of the battle.

[@karlscoasters1643]

Thanos vs iron man was incredible as well.

[@ISetYourFaceOnFire]

The titan battle was more than good. it was an action masterpiece imo. directed and filmed so well, and the stakes are high. the iron man vs thanos sequence alone is just fucking riveting, intense and brutal. and definitely mcu's very best, it's now tied with endgame's final battle.

[@samcherry4741]

I think T'Challa's willingness to host a giant war with aliens right in the homeland of people who are used to safety should play into Black Panther 2's antagonist. I haven't read many comics but I've gotten the impression that a lot of problems that T'Challa deals with are internal antagonists turning the people against him for various reasons and this seems like a perfect set up for it. Especially since in Black Panther we see him walk among them but we never see him address Wakandans directly. Even when "The Thing" happens, none of the civilians are shown being alerted to it, it's entirely possible that most of them didn't even know it happened.

[@cobraimploder]

Very interesting perspective!

[@mgway4661]

That would make a lot of sense

[@itsboyaknow]

“The Thing” is in Fantastic 4.......

[@dantalion1341]

but a huge dropship "dropped" on top of wakanda and it didnt go through its shield...people didnt hear nor see that?

[@chandrastar5939]

Yh but it is at least 5 yrs later. Can't we all just get along?

[@rdkite0131]

The problem with foot soldiers really annoys me. It’s the same problem with the soldiers in Asgard. The fact that such an advanced species rely on a shield and a spear is quite disappointing

[@andrejosue98]

Well Norse always valued fighting... and those swords and shields are made from materials that are several times stronger than ours. And also culture... culture is important. Lets take Jedi... they use sabers because of culture

[@luxurytags]

And in Avengers 1

[@victorvelie3980]

@@andrejosue98 let's be real, they use them because it's more exciting, anything else is just ad hoc. If your culture insists on primitive methods, you will be destroyed

[@andrejosue98]

@@victorvelie3980 "If your culture insists on primitive methods, you will be destroyed" Yes that is why many people still use knives.

[@itsjohnnycooley]

Andre Moya But our main weapons in war aren’t knifes, they are guns

[@crazykidslaya2496]

Also why didn’t they use any of the planes we saw in black panther?

[@Alex-ur7gk]

They did towards the end of the fight if you watch closely. Around the time the giant spinning blades appeared

[@WyvernApalis]

Strider_17 well they could have used it at the start, use extreme firepower to bottleneck the open barrier

[@jasonbourne6365]

@@Alex-ur7gk They have all kinds of weapons. They just weakened the BP and his Army. I was so pissed.

[@matthewsahr5205]

@@jasonbourne6365 agreed. Sometimes the russos get on my nerves.

[@CarnageTrooperx]

@@jasonbourne6365 How did the russos nerf BP and wakanda?

[@indolentlard8612]

Kinda strange that you didn't mentioned the beginning of the siege where Cap and T'challa outruns everyone. I thought it was quite an amazing visual to witness, showcasing to audiences that these two are the best of humanity and its peak performance.

[@AlecArtComics]

Yeah, one of my favorite scenes in the fight!

[@grumpygrandpappy2297]

I was waiting for either one to outdust each other lol

[@malachihargrave3453]

MCUs two most selfless characters. I loved that part

[@tyreliverson7841]

Probably my favourite shot in the whole movie

[@lonewander6772]

Not surprising. They already did that in Civil War. Also a motif carried from WS when Steve kept running past Wilson in their morning jog.

[@adinolfi7279]

I'm more forgiving on the flaws of this battle sequence due to the fact that there where two other just as important narratives going on at the same time with the fight on Titan and Thor getting stormbreaker. If this was the only part of the final act of the film it's flaws would def. be more apparent. But for a film that had a bunch of narratives going on at all times and having a purpose to just be a cool-fun superhero movie, I think the war scene in Wakanda serves its purpose well.

[@aadityamurali18]

What bugs me about it is that we failed to see Cap's strategic skills. In the other Avengers movies he makes a battle plan for the team. But in this one he doesn't. It would've been nice to watch him discuss tactics with T'Challa - since they're both warriors. Basically, the battle strategy of the Wakanda team was not good. The Titan team had a proper plan. But yeah because there was a tripple narrative I can understand why it was a little rushed

[@ryguy1483]

Lord of the Rings had that multiple story thing as well...

[@ROGERSfilmProduction]

I agree with you. The run time of both movies was 3hours. So unless the studios were going to greenlight a third. I think what was done, with the time that they had was amazing.

[@garethhanby]

I know I am being pedantic but the attack on Wakanda cannot accurately be described as a siege. A siege is playing the long game, restricting resources with a view to forcing surrender or at least weakening the opponent before conquest.

[@NotFlappy12]

that is a siege tactic but not the definition of siege. but it was more of a battle that a siege in any case

[@garethhanby]

Unless you are talking about Herons, it is the definition.

[@MrBlackCat63]

@@NotFlappy12 You know Google exists where it literally states "a military operation in which enemy forces surround a town or building, cutting off essential supplies, with the aim of compelling the surrender of those inside."

[@steelbear2063]

@@MrBlackCat63 And they were going to do just that, but BP has opened the door for them

[@bboykee]

I agree, but what bothered me more was that both black order's army and wakanda have super advanced tech and yet they fight like they are in stone age. where are the super advanced weapons? forget that, where were wakanda's rhinos?

[@Keesha_Hardy]

bboykee I was wondering that as well. I hope they explain why.

[@big-bonkin-head1034]

Indeed. The battle could’ve been amazing Humans best tech vs Thanos army. :/

[@kamalbhatti]

I know this post is 3 months old but they do explain the rhinos part in passing. When T'Challa is explaining who they have to fight as far as Wakandian warriors go, he goes something like "and whatever is left of the border tribe". It hinted that the border tribe, the one with the rhinos had left Wakanda after siding with Killmonger (possibly setting up a black panther 2 villain in the process?)

[@rockyroadmagic4152]

Ya the rhinos were what bothered me most

[@night_wolf6621]

Budget

[@grouchypuff570]

I thought this was intentional though. We've seen 2 Avengers movies wrap up with the team vs a massive faceless army. So, we've been conditioned to believe, this is the final fight that leads to victory for our heroes...then Thanos shows up and completely turns everything on its head. I think that pick up you experience where Thanos shows up stands out as much as it did because of the choices they made prior to that.

[@ZeroTheDinosaur]

Totally agree!

[@trombonegamer14]

So you think the battle had to be dull and flat in order to make Thanos menacing? Interesting approach to plot writing, thank you.

[@grouchypuff570]

Dull and flat are not how I would nor did describe the Wakanda battle . It was more traditional to the Avengers movies which, again, set us up for one expectation, only to pull the carpet out from under our feet when Thanos shows up.

[@TheBHNetwork]

Jack Marlow Objectivity isn’t really the strongest counter argument pal

[@lonewander6772]

Grouchy Puff The actual war part of it had no direction. Like he said it was an excuse for cgi random action. It started off well with the swarming of the dome and then the decision to funnel them in, but from then on it was all run-in-and-fight, no strategies and no tower defense. I'm still surprised they allowed the enemy to get to Vision or to even enter the tower at all. Did they expect Scarlet to be the ONLY defense of the tower? Priority was to keep them from getting to Vision, not have a bar brawl kill streak.

[@tobleronetube3686]

I don't think the Wakanda battle was the biggest battle towards the end of the movie, I think that was the Thanos battle on Titan. Mainly because that's where Thanos was for most of the battles that were happening at the same time. The Wakanda battle felt more like a side plot on a larger scale. But the Titan battle had Iron Man where we all thought he as going to die, it had Doctor Strange with his crazy Doctor Strange stuff, it had Thanos and like many others have pointed out, this is his movie. And the battle on Titan was his biggest fight. When he arrives at Wakanda, pretty much all the outriders have been killed, the Black Order's dead, and the Avengers are kind of worn down. The Wakanda battle isn't an army fighting an army anymore, it's a group of weakened people on one side versus one guy they stand just about no chance against. You see the Wakanda battle starts off in one place, and ends in another. By the time Thanos gets to Wakanda, I wouldn't even say that's the climax. It's just the answer of whether he wins or loses. It wasn't the biggest fight. Also I don't give a shit about some boring ass Wakandans. I came to this movie to see the Avengers and Thanos, I don't need to see how the Wakanda people are reacting to Thanos' army, we're already watching the Avengers struggling to take on someone they know they probably don't stand a chance against.

[@TheForsakenSentry]

TOBLERONE TUBE thank you! And I don’t understand how saws are supposed to scare the avengers anyway??? They’ve literally fought scarier things like ultron’s entire arm and ultron himself.

[@NutsinBrazil]

That was certainly the most important battle, and where the end of that war was decided. But Wakanda war was bigger: more characters, more canon fodder, more time.

[@Dakarai_Knight]

TOBLERONE TUBE wakanda is the most interesting place in the entire mcu I wouldn't call them boring. The rest of ur points are right tho.

[@tobleronetube3686]

Jedijazz4 I would beg to differ that it's the most interesting place in the mcu, and just because it's interesting doesn't make the people in it interesting.

[@Dakarai_Knight]

TOBLERONE TUBE that's what makes the place interesting. The people. What they can do their technology their culture. Are the people in New York from avengers 1 more interesting? Of all the societies alien or otherwise here they are the most interesting with te asgardians being their only competition. On earth they definitely take the cake tho.

[@The94Nut]

You forget that the siege wasn't to get the stone, it was to get everyone away from the stone. Get vision alone so a few people could sneak in and get it. They make a call out as soon as scarlet witch hits the battlefield and then boom vision is impaled again.

[@Weskalia]

You thought Hulk was going to fight Thanos in Wakanda But it was I, BRUCE BANNER!

[@rorcknar]

Takatora Toudou Is that a motherfucking Jojo's reference?

[@mr.meeseeks8567]

Thanos should have used ZA WARUDO to kill everyone. With the time stone, he could have.

[@mijanhoque1740]

NANI

[@watsonchu7154]

Takatora Toudou I

[@SpadaBelformaOfficial]

Ore wa Banner da!

[@waccle8335]

I really liked the scene when Black Panther ate some spaghetti for 15 minutes. The CGI was incredible. Everyone was utterly amazed in the theater. Damn.

[@zenith1260]

me me BIG BOY

[@captainmidnight]

Definitely the best part.

[@waccle8335]

captainmidnight yo fam that's finna woke

[@cornvuscornax4719]

Savage Supernova You forgot the part where Bucky used his metal arm to make people hit themselves while saying “Stop hitting yourself” “Stop hitting yourself”

[@QuarrelsomeLocalOaf]

My favorite part was when Tony Stark looked right at the camera and said "what is this Cap, some kinda Infinity War™?"

[@prototypelq8574]

I think they missed the key and most interesting part of first Avengers, for me, the movie really got good when the team made combos with each other, like Tony shooting at Cap's shield to multiply lazers for example. This teammate relationship between heroes really is the best part of Avengers. Wakanda Battle don't have enough suspence, it feels rushed, but also as you said, all characters just attack as best as they can. They don't interact with each other at all, and this Battle could be much more interesting if they had these combos.

[@gerritdeman6410]

Bucky and Rocket teaming up was pretty cool though, apart from that I agree.

[@nickdahl324]

“The battles in Lord of The Rings and Infinity War do not make a fair comparison.” *proceeds to compare the two for the rest of the video*

[@TimothyDark]

Nick Dahl 😂😂😂😂😂

[@alexn.4150]

Nick Dahl, I think he was trying to say the battles themselves, in terms of action sequences and whatnot, aren’t comparable, but he was talking about the stakes involved and humor vs seriousness.

[@matthewbond6472]

Nick Dahl he saying infinity war could have learned by a great battle sequence and then he gave examples

[@mixedbagclips2511]

He even calls it the siege of Wakanda 😂🤣

[@TheAnimalShocker]

The biggest problem and reason why that battle felt empty was that you have 2 big battles at the same time: the Wakanda Siege and the Titan Brawl. The Titan Brawl felt grand because we knew every character going in and how they think. Making every moment crucial. The Wakanda Siege was big but in a way too big. SOOOOO many characters. One was going to get shafted over the other. No way around that. If it was just the Siege and nothing else than no doubt it would be the talk of the movie. But in truth the Siege was just a set-up; not a climax.

[@silverwhistle247]

TheAnimalShocker the difference is that we know caps team can Handel the lame aliens but we don't know if Ironman team can handle Thanos

[@jvictor3048]

x jh Caps' team really couldn't handle the aliens, though. They were clearly getting overwhelmed and got pretty close to being beaten until Thor showed up.

[@kolicgames4750]

I think a good point here also is that the Wakanda battle, in essence, did not matter. Thanos had so much power that successfully acquiring either stone would assure victory. It also sets up an interesting point that if Civil War hadn't happened, then maybe they could have held off Thanos together.I could have seen them interweaving the two fights together, cutting back and forth, knowing that if the Avengers lost either one, but they would probably lose, but they decided to make each stand on its on. And Thanos dropped a moon on them. Just saying.

[@frederickburke620]

My beef with the Wakanda battle began with wondering just what awesomeness Wakanda had up its sleeve and then, "Wait? They're sending out the infantry?"

[@Relugus]

Frederick Burke We should have seen their air force and railguns...instead just blokes with spears.

[@whatisbow2865]

They took a hit after the "civil war" in Black Panther. Their air force is almost completely destroyed by Ross. And Ross is a very good pilot, based on the movie. Though it would be cool to have a huge cannon or Rhinos with armour and guns. TBH, the Romans looked cooler than them.

[@ronankelly6393]

The whole idea of lets go out and punch these aliens in the face is ludicrous. There was a huge pile of them around the forcefield. launch one decent sized missle. Job done. Goddamn Rhodey took out more peeps than everyone else combined.

[@petern1938]

THAT was exactly my problem with the Wakanda battle. If Thanos' forces had turned up almost anywhere else they would have been faced with tanks, helicopter gunships and all manner of other modern weaponry. Instead the battle is little different from the one that could have happened if Thanos had come up against the Roman Empire, or British redcoats, or the inhabitants of Middle-Earth or Westeros.

[@ge2719]

vibranium laser spears blasters, force field cloaks. every super heros on the planet in one place. yeah, thats the same as red coats.

[@thegooseinator9614]

I’d argue that the human element of Wakanda wasn’t included on purpose. The audience is supposed to assume the Avengers will win in the end for the twist to hit harder. The only point in the movie where you see any kind of human element at all is when it’s already too late

[@philandersupermarkert1854]

Agreed. Infinity Wars could have been at least 3hours Long. Why kill this nice Story with a normal sized movie length

[@margaretdaly7302]

They cut out 30 minutes of Thanos’s backstory and probably a few more scenes regarding the plan to defeat Thanos on TITAN and maybe why they can’t resort to weapons because they were destroyed in the Black Panther movie fighting Kill-monger? I do feel like they focused on 4 different storylines for 4 characters, Iron Man’s Story, Thor’s Story, Thanos’s Story And Captain America’s Story And it seemed like they pushed Cap’s story to the side and focused on the other three which is probably why there Story was really good and Cap’s was just okay like they cut out 30 minutes of Thanos and he still had a good story but Thanos, Iron Man And Thor all had troubles, Iron Man had the trouble of getting his team to work together especially the guardians and Doctor Strange And he had to look after Peter, Thor the death of his best friend and brother to get over and had to take a direct blow of a star and Thanos had to deal with getting over the death of Gamora and had the trouble of fighting multiple heroes who he knew took out members of his Black Order And One Of them carried a nuke and blew up one of his armies and Cap really had nothing to get over other then protecting the Mind Stone But nothing wrong with his team or anything like that but I See why they cut out some of the scenes to have them for the digital cut and the movie was still awesome anyway but I do wish they added in a few more scenes.

[@margaretdaly7302]

Conrad Ferrus. Gotta remember, Vulture destroyed the plane with all that gear and probably had Wakanda stuff in there too so... yeah...

[@wavyduck1273]

I cannot hold the urine in my bladder for 3 hours!

[@jinb1969]

Ummmm... budget?

[@malfaroangel3896]

Its about the turnover. A 2:35 movie would be able to play more times in a day

[@2fortress4you]

So...why did the Wakandan military defend so terribly? The enemy came from one clear, apparently anticipated direction, so why weren't any combat vehicles, tanks, planes or gun turrets used??? WHY WOULD THEY RESPOND TO AN ALIEN ARMY INVASION BY EMPLOYING A LARGE MASS OF FOOT SOLDIERS WITHOUT REAL RANGED WEAPONS??? Don't tell me they didn't have enough time to prepare - they had enough time to bring several thousand soldiers to the front line, so they should have enough time to roll up with more substantial and effective defenses too, especially with the supposed advances in tech Wakanda has.

[@oracleofpelham511]

because Wakanda is human level, meaning they worked to defend themselves from human threats. while their tech is good it no where near alien level. I was wondering why the main ship didn't pummel the shields from orbit, no human shielding can withstand a barrage from a more advanced alien weapon.

[@2fortress4you]

doesn't explain bad strategic choices???

[@darksev.6468]

Yeah, and what about the rhinos or whatever air defense they had left?

[@swirvithanlgoodlingsplatt8221]

because its a movie and the Russo brothers wanted a large scale epic ground battle to take place. That entire Wakandan ground battle made no sense at all. If you have a very capable force shield that can be opened at any number of desired quadrants, and a fleet of weaponized hi tech air craft. why not open a barrier in the overhead section of the shield release several aircraft with War Machine and let them assault from the air. They could have wiped out that entire alien army without a singlr casualty. You would think with the military training of Captain America and Bucky, the Black widows espionage expertise, Bruce banners genius level intellect, and a sentient super computer in the Vision all partaking in this battle they could have strategized a better plan than boots on the ground.

[@inthefade]

All good points. If the rest of the movie wasn't so great I would have never forgiven this scene. It was really a stupid and nonsensical action scene for it's own sake. Not at all well thought-out or crafted.

[@huntcd2012]

I think part of the reason they avoided showing civilians was that they were probably trying to avoid making the battle seem like a retread of the Battle of New York and the Battle of Sokovia. Rather than the Outriders being the main invading force, they were more of a diversion. Like when the giant saw like things break under the barrier forcing Scarlet Witch to enter the fray to take them out, Proxima Midnight sends in one of the other Black Order members behind the main line to get to Vision forcing him into the fight and into the open. Now I will admit they could’ve done more to show how dangerous the fight was going to get, but they still get props for attempting to do more with the fight than just having it be a battle between two armies.

[@Boeing-777-X]

huntcd2012 EXACTLY!

[@MrHexagonGaming]

True

[@ralphmartinez9661]

True true, the director stated that the film was more like a heist-film.. but then again it's called Infinity War... but hey, still better than Justice League.............

[@alexanderabugattas5716]

huntcd2012 a

[@justafaniv1097]

Ever since the backlash against Man of Steel's massive collateral damage, I've noticed a lot of superhero movies have been going out of there way to throw in a line about how "the civilians have evacuated" or whatever. Which I think is a shame. The problem with MoS's fight was not that civilians got hurt, it's that nobody seemed to care.

[@veggiedragon1000]

My main gripe with that scene was, why didn't T'Challa wait to open that small section of the dome? They could have had the perfect bottleneck where they could easily kill every outrider that came through. But instead, they open it allowing several of the creatures to pour through before the Wakandans charge at them. Just why?

[@fen4613]

YES EXACTLY. I was waiting for a Hannibal-level war strategy from such an advanced country, but this was just them being outsmarted.

[@victorvelie3980]

The whole scene was ridiculous, not a single instance of Wakandan artillery or air power or anything an advanced army would have

[@tarekjouini7271]

@@victorvelie3980 there was, just more attention next time you watch the movie.

[@parthsavyasachi9348]

The biggest issue with wakanda is that they have best tech but fight with swords and spears. They are incapable of handling any modern army and yet show as if something very big in wakanda village.

[@BishopDoubleR]

So do Asgardians

[@v.sandrone4268]

The spears and shield would have worked better if they had stayed in the formations they arrived in. They immediately broke ranks and started individual fights.

[@daymi7300]

the spears and shields had laser beams

[@SamIAmSXE]

Wakanda's a peaceful country. Modern weaponry were developed for large scale wars and mass slaughter. Wakandans don't fight large scale wars, they fight small hand to hand duels. They wouldn't have developed machineguns, because they didn't need a weapon to wipe out columns of soldiers, or mass cavalry charges. They didn't develop nuclear arms because they didn't ever need to wipe out half a city to end a conflict. Does that make them less capable? No. Need be, they have the tech and resources to develop devastating weapons.

[@BigSleepyOx]

Yes, same thing in Ragnarok. When Hella is taking over Asgard, all the Asgard warriors try to take her down with just hand-held shields and swords. I think Hollywood just likes hand-to-hand combat scenes more than high-tech weaponry. lol

[@moloko912]

Agree To disagree. I was into it as soon as I saw cap and black panther run upfront super fast. War machine finally does something. And I cheered and applauded when Thor showed up. Something I never wanted to do during helms deep.

[@supermutantsam1160]

War Machine bombing the Outriders was the moment I remembered that Rodey is literally a flying tank man.

[@xsanguine8]

Back off Sam, things are about to get hot, and then he proceeds to drop bombs over that stretch of battlefield. That was awesome, but I worried that he was damaging the rest of the dome.

[@futbolluva]

I was mostly disappointed by how boring Wakanda's army was. Laser spears that they stop using immediately and some blanket shields (that were never used). Why don't these guys have tanks and their jets on the field? Definitely agree with your points as well

[@forky1686]

futbolluva maybe its just tradition

[@victorvelie3980]

@@forky1686 dumb tradition, what are they some sort of Amish when it comes to war

[@Sasscat58]

I agree so much with this. Also visually it’s not interesting. The lighting is flat and we don’t get much characterization of the Wakandan soldiers.

[@big-bonkin-head1034]

I wanted to see Wakandan soldiers duke it out with Outriders. I could barely see what was happening in the background and when I go back to watch it, I like to see how the Wakandan soldiers handle themselves. I feel terrible for the ones that got brutally beaten down

[@takodabdrew4367]

LimeTrip Cleary you haven't watch Lord of the Rings.

[@danielwood6833]

Agreed they even have lines like "this will be the end of Wakanda" but no follow up to that line or any real weight to it. Not to mention the fight itself was pretty crap, the shots were so close up so you couldn't make out any choreography between the wakandans and the outriders or even see Black Panther clawing them. Was just a mess imo

[@blazingfury057]

I liked the scene but I do still agree it was trying to be safe while going at somthing to large but hey it's better than if they used the comics kill everyone plan cause thanos winning would mean that deadpool would finaly get to fuck death lol

[@systematic101]

Daniel Wood Not any real weight to it? They lost. Half of the remaining population including their king turned to dust.

[@candres9747]

I liked the Titan battle better

[@victorvelie3980]

it was a million times more realistic (although Quil ruining everything was infuriating)

[@kidddunegan1668]

I agree

[@jayyzee5708]

@@victorvelie3980 yes obviously because its not two gargantuan armies fighting

[@EE-fk1rp]

didn't we all

[@SpFlash1523]

Same.

[@DragonballBlack]

I would argue that the desperate moment came when they dropped the section of the shield to face off against the Alien Venoms. These things looked massive and something the Wakanda soldiers had never faced before. They actually looked nervous which wasn’t the case in Black Panther. It was sold even more to see Michonne (forget her name) state that they are willingly killing themselves trying to get through. The level of fear and disgust in the way she said this sold me that there were stakes in this battle.

[@lonewander6772]

Dragon Ball Black That wasn't a desperate moment. That was the one time they actually had a strategic thought by funneling them in. Too bad theu didn't really make the best use of it.

[@jonathandiosa5739]

Michonne is fine

[@idontcaresir]

Okoye*

[@xplosives1752]

Lone Wander what should they have done? I’ll defend it to some extent but I’m also curious because idk any good strategy for that position

[@BungieStudios]

Hear hear! So much better than Soy Wars: The Last Manbaby.

[@americanfootball8194]

This was probably one of my favorite scenes honestly, seeing all the heroes work together to fight in that moment was amazing! And seeing cap and black panther run ahead of everyone was a nice little touch.

[@tfc2579]

I like how they basically won the battle of Wakanda. Even though the Avengers lost against Thanos and half of life was destroyed, they still managed to win against the army. The Avengers managed to kill all of Thanos’ children and the Outriders. It shows them winning against the Outriders when M’Baku slams one and starts chanting, when you see them all retreating, and when Thor destroys the ships. Even though they lost against Thanos, they still destroyed the army and Thanos’ children so they won in a way.

[@big-bonkin-head1034]

Wakanda stood against Thanos army, the most powerful army in the universe. That’s admirable but I’m honestly wondering if the heroes weren’t there, would their army stand against the outriders and it’s Thresher blades

[@BlackfeatherLegion]

@@big-bonkin-head1034 Wakanda would have fallen without Thor. Thor turned the tide, raised morale and he even delivered all the heaviest blows to Thanos and his army.

[@andrejosue98]

@@WibiYT That comment makes no sense .-. If they killed all the army they would not be able to take over the country... It is more like: While we killed every Nazi and hitler's generals. We still lost half of our men

[@zaherber]

The battle of Wakanda was never about Wakanda or killing Thanos’ army though. It was to make time to safely remove the Infinity mind stone from Vision and then to destroy the stone so Thanos couldn’t get it. So while it is cool that they were able to hold their own, that was never the point. They still lost the Infinity Stone and half of life was destroyed.

[@themanofstonks8804]

I personally really liked it. I loved how cap and T'challa both lead the charge, Thor's entrance, the interaction between rocket and Bucky, and Steve and Groots interaction.

[@AlecArtComics]

The way they showed Captain America and Black Panther running ahead of everyone towards the alien army at the beginning of the battle was great! One of my favorite parts in the Wakanda battle.

[@thedarlingdiva4337]

*Reads title in notification* Me: Um, excuse you. Absolutely nothing. Thor's entrance alone is a masterpiece. *Watches video* Me: Fine. A few things.

[@thiefofjustice4495]

He made a few good points that could've been interesting to add to the battle but I'm fine with the outcome either way bc if you think about it: despite a few speed bumps, the heroes in Wakanda were holding their own. When Thor shows up, they were confident that they were gonna win, giving them false hope and were unaware of the danger from Titan that was gonna destroy them later

[@NightmareproductionsOFFICIAL]

Nah I like this battle a lot. Thor’s entrance gives me chills. It’s no battle of the bastards though I get it.

[@shavedata5436]

I'm actually glad I watched this. There was definitely something missing from this film that I couldn't quite put my finger on. I guess I was focusing too much on the Thanos aspects, all of which were incredible.

[@rvf2k]

captainmidnight i don't feel too good

[@captainmidnight]

Royce? Royce!!! NOOOOOO

[@RealityBoy101]

4:37 *CaptainMidnight:* "Speaking of stakes, let's talk about them." *Me: fully expecting him to talk about the **_food steak_** instead and then backtrack onto the original tangent* *CaptainMidnight:* "In Infinity War, the stakes are _incredibly high."_ *Me: both disappointed with the lost opportunity and with myself for expecting it in the first place*

[@lebronjim1582]

Cringe

[@keaplayez3735]

Pro noobster you cant be talking look at your name

[@lebronjim1582]

You can't be talking look at your name and your spelling.

[@padfrog193]

Okay Chie

[@EricGraham94]

This sounds like a watered down version of a better TFS joke

[@stevespud2707]

Considering how much this movie had to balance in terms of the huge cast and multiple storylines I believe the Wakanda battle was done just fine. It didn't need to be a long dragged out battle that overstays its welcome. It did what it needed to do and was long enough without talking away from the rest of the important scenes in the film.

[@aparajitamishra5074]

They made the tone less stakes at the beginning, so that the audience totally believes that the Avengers can win, until the last minute. When Thanos manages to snap, the moment comes as a total shock, much as it was for the heroes themselves.

[@themaninthehat1000]

I think comparing the Wakanda battle to the battle of helms deep was a poor choice. The battles are treated differently in each movie. In the Two Towers the battle itself is the climax while in Infinity War Thanos collecting and using all the gems is the climax. The two movies use battle scenes to achieve different ends. I think it would be a lot more fair to compare the Wakanda battle to the battle of New York or the final battle of Age of Ultron. Although avengers 1 and 2 are not army vs army they both have more of those human moments described in the video. For instance in avengers 1 There are civilians running around in terror with a focus on cap trying to save them. In avengers 2 there is the pep talk Hawkeye give Scarlett witch which really humanizes the characters. I think the final battle in infinity war had different goals for the narrative than helms deep which makes it something different. The Wakanda battle is more like something found on a checklist while the battle of Helms deep is more like the main event. This video criticizes the Wakanda battle as if it was the main event which is not the case making the criticism less valid.

[@jayngb]

noogets Underrated comment 👏🏽👏🏽

[@Jaydavid25.]

Damn... You ain't never lied.. Haha..

[@DuoXCity]

Exactly. This is why my comparison has been the battle of Endor. It was a side battle too, less emotionally visceral as the other fight (Luke and Vader), but used to shift tones between scenes and give the side characters something to do.

[@akba666]

I don't think the two battles are comparable. In fact, I think they are opposites. Helms deep is hopeless until gandalf came and brought hope. Wakanda battle was suppose to feel safe and hopeful then thanos comes and take it all away.

[@lucagz6481]

Exactly. Helms Deep battle is the climax of the story, the main event at the end of the movie, where the protagonists fight for their lives against an unstoppable force (Saruman's army). The Wakanda Battle is only a side of the final battle: Iron Man, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange and the Guardians of the Galaxy are fighting Thanos on Titan, and despite their best efforts, they lose against him and Strange gives him the Time Stone. Rogers and the others are fighting to protect Vision, the whole battle is built in a way that we see these heroes working togheter (Cap with T'Challa, Black Widow with Okoye and Wanda, War Machine and Falcon) or have to find new ways to solve their problems because they are limited in some ways (Vision is wounded and Banner isn't able to become Hulk). The Black Order actually makes the situation difficoult until Thor arrives. That is a way to fool the audience, turning the whole situation in an other victory for the Avengers. But then Thanos comes, with five Infinity Stones in his possesion. This is actually a strong and well built narrative, to create emotions and convictions in order to surprise. The heroes do their best, but despite that, they all lose against the Mad Titan.

[@Sharikacat]

I agree that these two battles had opposite goals. Helms Deep was a fight to survive. If Helms Deep fell, then there would be no one else to challenge Sauron. The battle at Wakanda was a race against the clock. Every single hero on that battlefield could have died, and they still would have won if Wanda was able to destroy the Mind Stone and deny Thanos his prize (disregarding what we know about the Time Stone since they didn't have that knowledge).

[@Migantos9989]

I disagree, imagine if Thor never showed up, would you still feel “safe and hopeful”? He runs a good parallel, in Wakanda the heroes were confident they could hold back the army but quickly come to realize they are being overwhelmed. If Marvel would of capitalized the feeling you speak of that is portrayed in Helms deep (hopeless) then Thor’s entrance would of been more epic than how it was and show how powerful Thor truly is. The Wakanda battle could of easily been our first tease taste of the heroes losing (upon being saved by Thor), feel relieved they didn’t lose, then lose again when Thanos effortlessly gets the stone. That would of been one of hell of an emotional roller coaster that would of made the last scene much more impactful.

[@akba666]

Thor coming wasn't the climax. It's the mid point, just like how the helms deep defense looked fine until the wall blown up. The wakanda defense looked fine then it went downhill as they got overwhelmed and back up again when thor arrived and finally everything goes to shit when thanos comes. Helms deep is exactly opposite with things looking bad at the beginning but gets better when the elves came and the heroes actually fending off the enemies. Then it goes downhill when the wall blew up and finally back up when gandalf arrives with reinforcement.

[@frandaesquina]

Yeah, and that makes Cap feel much less needed in the movie. He is the one that suffers the most with this "no tactics just punching" scene. I mean, it seems that this could be an avengers movie WITHOUT Cap. He is somewhat disposable (not totally but he feels more like a problem to the writing than a solution)

[@thomasbeshara9515]

Watched a few of you videos. You earn my sub and like. Keep up the good work

[@AD-zp4pd]

Captainnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn MIDNIGHT!

[@jacko7755]

I was really disappointed when you weren’t in Infinity War. I guess the Russo Brothers were just waiting for Avengers 4 so Captain Midnight can come in and save them in their time of need

[@captainmidnight]

Yeah I'm still waiting by the phone tbh.

[@loganbigmo]

^ That's your mistake. You need to get a pager, that's how Nick Fury can contact you.

[@samowen7189]

No no no no, the end credit scene was for Captain Marvel not the invincible Captain Midnight

[@liesdamnliesandstatsweird1934]

Jacko77 😂🤣😄😅🤣😂

[@lucask.9871]

captainmidnight no, you're WAY too powerful for the MCU. You would have to be nerfed so much that you would be Ike I completely different character while in battle

[@eetuhalmela9361]

i haven't finished the video, but a little teamwork could be awesome. i mean they have almost everybody on the battlefield and they all kinda fight alone. in the first avengers this issue was executed perfectly, but now when everybody is on the battlefield and the options are limitless. they just fight all alone.

[@sketchsawyer]

Thank you for not making me feel like I was the only one with beef with this scene! Very great video!

[@d-zone2890]

When I saw the title I thought u were full of shit. Then I watched and agreed with everything u said. Damn you. And well done.

[@KookiesNolly]

Red and Silver Games same

[@elijahdelacruz3204]

Same here, especially being a fan of the Lord of the Rings series, once I saw the surprisingly fair comparison, I agreed with everything. P.S Heres to hoping the ending events will be reversed. PLEASE Bring Back Spidey, TChalla, and Strange

[@Nobody-fb7ni]

Elijah Dela Cruz of course they will.

[@jonathandiosa5739]

cosgrove360 at first I thought Loki wouldnt come back, but then if you think about how he played a major role in Ragnarok and died so quickly in Infinity war, he may still have a role to play.

[@Nobody-fb7ni]

Jonathan Diosa I mean so did Asgard as a people... And most of them are dead. The purpose of that scene was to establish thanos as this massive threat.

[@AngryIrishBenjamin]

Warning: I will discuss *Spoilers* in my comment: Okay, so I think it's the wrong angle to look at this battle and think it should be "What if Helm's Deep but with superheroes". My interpretation was that it was meant to be a deceptively optimistic quasi-victory for the good guys and an almost pleasant distraction between the nail-biting sequence of Thor and associates trying to get the forge of Nidavellir working again, wherein Thor is forced into increasingly dangerous manoeuvres and even has a near-death experience, and Thanos' 6 vs. 1 smackdown vs. Teams Iron Man and Star-Lord, a fight that was much smaller but also much more intense and personal. A: IW constantly baits us into thinking it a typical Marvel movie with all the quips, in-jokes and barbs flying around and our heroes often coming close to succeeding, but it always finds a way to pull the rug out from under our feet and remind us that this movie plays by Thanos' rules instead, only to lure us back into complacency the very next scene. In that regard the scene being comparatively low-stakes and not as tense as the other scenes makes sense and for it to be, again, "What if Helm's Deep but with superheroes", would detract from the movie's quality, not improve it. I'd also like to point out that the world of The Lord of the Rings was always intended to be a dark, bleak but redeemable world, which is how it got away with having a pretty relentlessly grim tone once the action left the Shire, while the lightness of Marvel movies means that they couldn't do the same without it feeling like a completely different breed of animal. Especially not after Batman v. Superman (and even Thor: The Dark World before it) tried to be a constantly bleak and grimdark movie and suffered critical and audience backlash in the worst way. But even if it was meant to be like that, I believe you're misrepresenting the purpose of the giant saw blade vehicles. They were deployed for specific tactical and storytelling reasons, and it's this: You see, Wanda was initially positioned in that building with Shuri and Vision to destroy the Mind Stone once it was removed from his forehead. Obviously the Black Order remembered their previous battle with her, in which she held her own against them long enough for Team Cap to arrive on the scene, and adjusted their battle plan to correct her presence. Just before the initial not-Xenomorph charge, Proxima Midnight tacitly tells the heroes that Corvus Glaive is dead and she wants revenge for it. This is actually a genius fakeout. No sooner has Wanda descended onto the battlefield to disable them than Corvus, actually revealed to be alive and well, makes his move on the now-vulnerable Vision and prevents Shuri from detaching the Stone. He doesn't succeed in removing it, but his successful prevention of the Third Option they were trying to take is, in my eyes anyway, analogous to the scene of the Uruk blowing up the outer gate of Helm's Deep with their bomb. From that point on, the Avengers have two equally terrible options: either destroy the Mind Stone, losing Vision in the process and forcing Wanda to kill the man she loves... or don't, in which case Thanos will almost certainly get the damn thing anyway. In the end, both happened. Not mentioning that seems kind of disingenuous to me. And honestly? I can take or leave his underlings and I'm betting several other people could too. It was Thanos himself they had to make a believable threat to the heroes while still being a compelling and interesting villain at the same time, above all else. If they hadn't, Infinity War would have flopped, and it wouldn't have mattered a fig how awesome the Battle of Wakanda was or wasn't. Likewise the forging of Stormbreaker was something they couldn't afford to make underwhelming, considering its build-up as a Thanos-killing weapon. And even with the movie clocking in at approx. 2 hours and 30 minutes, presumably including the credits and post-credits stinger, the sheer amount of characters and concepts they had to fit in meant they were still on a time budget. I mean, I went to see the similarly-lengthened Blade Runner 2049 and found large parts of it to be nothing-burgers that could have been cut from the movie without losing anything. So one portion of the film had to take one for the team and have its presence, themes and character development dialed right the fuck down or made really really subtle. The filmmakers obviously, and correctly IMHO, chose this subplot and set piece to do just that. I don't believe it was subpar at all or that it had any particular problem, but even if I'm wrong, it was a necessary evil to ensure the overall quality of the film. Much like the exposition about the Infinity Stones themselves, it may not be very likable but it had to happen.

[@hypersniper1540]

*clicks Read More* *sees wall of text* *scrolls past*

[@mihirgohil7168]

Opening the comment i watched size and close the comment😅

[@Sizdothyx]

Son, it's set in the modern fucking age. You're telling me that Wakanda didn't have something like an Abrams, trench warfare, missiles or an actual air force with some A-10 analogs in it DESPITE the friggin' BRAGGING that it was THE MOST ADVANCED NATION on the damn planet? No army fights like that in real life. Isn't it meant to be set in 2018? That whole battle could have been settled with one aircraft carrier pacification assignment, damn. Not even an Armed Forces shill, but those are some MIGHTY HUGE ASS targets.

[@TheUnintentionalWildCard]

Heeeeyyyyy, buddy...

[@Thanatos385]

Very well thought out and put together. I loved it

[@zenithfiction5399]

I disagree for a simple fact, IMO, you are expecting the Wakanda battle to be something it was never meant to be and you are rationalizing it with the comparison with a completely different idea of a storyline. You say the argument would be that you can't compare the two because of the "dark tone" but that's not the reason at all, the actual reason is that both battles serve a completely different purpose on the story and they are also different types of invasion, and no, I'm not talking about being orcs and others being aliens. The Wakanda battle was a simple defense because it was not meant to be an invasion towards Wakanda per se, unlike the two towers battle, it was nothing but an infiltration to get the stone. There was not much strategy to use because the enemy had no actual intention of using any kind of strategy themselves, the entire point was to just kill wave after wave of beasts launching towards them, even if they were clever and came up with a great strategy, that they didn't have time to plan BTW, there was no point at it since the deaths of those creatures didn't matter, for the enemies it was all about throwing the beasts randomly to keep the heroes occupied. They weren't after civilians, they weren't after destroying Wakanda, they weren't even after the heroes themselves, they were just there to fight as much as they can until their infiltrator took the stone or they broke the barrier of heroes. You mention that the chainsaws don't do anything, but we do see the heroes trying to explode them, we do see soldiers dying with them and no, they aren't just used to Proxima can die, they are the reason why Wanda ends up leaving Vision so Corvus can get Vision. You mention it's only Banner saying they are too many yet we literally see them dragging the heroes and eating soldiers all around them with at least 2 very visible guys being devoured on camera. Finally, the favorite scene of basically everyone everywhere I've seen it's Thor arriving, not Thanos so yeah I just think you felt it pretty different. IMO, once again, you are just trying to rationalize that battle as something that wasn't meant to be, as something that really didn't fit the story and as something that it really wasn't about. The Stakes were there, it was never Wakanda, it was Half of the universe. Sorry, this is the very first video of you I dislike, I think you have great content and usually explain things well though, so keep up the good work.

[@PrimeDiam]

Thank you, finally not a fanboy...

[@pokeyanteater598]

I agree with what you say in terms of facts but I feel like everything you mention are actually the exact reasons that this fight was more dull than it could have been. You say - "They weren't after civilians, they weren't after destroying Wakanda, they weren't even after the heroes themselves, they were just there to fight as much as they can until their infiltrator took the stone or they broke the barrier of heroes." - but thats the entire problem. Without any of that there isn't really much material to make the fight strategically and tactically interesting, in fact theres not much reason for the fight at all. This video simply uses the battle of 'Helms Deep' to give examples of ways it could have just been more interesting. My point here is that even if something is rational and can be explained that doesn't mean it's automatically good. It's really just that it could have been a more tense and exciting fight than it was...

[@pokeyanteater598]

Yeah, could have just waited for Thanos to arrive and he would have been able to get the gem by either fighting or infiltrating by himself....

[@carlderrick3128]

Im hungry, I need to eat. *captain midnight uploads new video* I can eat later. 😁

[@ericthemadscientist8357]

why not Eat and Watch at the same time?

[@captainmidnight]

That's a good question actually...

[@loganbigmo]

That's what I did; ate & watched at the same time

[@JurassicRod]

Or eat while watching the video

[@YoungSwaggness]

Good vid, new sub 👌🏾

[@YetiCoolBrother]

Best part of the Wakanda battle: The foot race between Cap and T’Challa at the beginning

[@rockbert99]

Sadly, I totally agree with you. Amazing analysis as always. CAPTAAAAAIN MIDNIGHT (best intro ever)

[@samba1367]

Rockbert more like: CAPTAaaiiiinnnnnnnnnnmIDNIGHT

[@tarekjouini7271]

dude, it doesn't even matter, it's a 4-minute scene really when you really look at it. The Wakandan battle mostly composed of many smaller parts into a larger overarching action sequence. Thor's Entrance, Bucky and Rocket, Natasha and Wanda and Okoye vs Proxima, Vision getting well bullied by the black order, Hulkbuster vs Cull Obsidian, the whole focus wasn't the battle it was just smaller fights and the plot was moving. It wasn't even what you would call the big 3rd act sequence that was where Thanos was. This action sequence was just really a way to continue the story, have really nice character interactions. Those outriders were in it for a very short time.

[@Dustin_McNab]

But there was a twist in the battle before Thanos shows up. When Scarlet Witch goes out to help, a few guys attack Vision. It looked like they snuck in from a different side of the dome. It showed the enemy army wasn't stupid and instantly raised the stakes of the battle.

[@hidden4425]

Love you dude!

[@shamrock4452]

But great video btw love ur content!

[@tylerdurden3798]

Usually agree with you, don't here. The film was full of emotionally devastating battles as it is, I was relieved that Wakanda's citizens escaped and frankly needed that knowledge. It's a nice breather, and is especially necessary considering what happens in the climax of the Wakanda battle. After a whole movie of watching heros fail time after time it is pretty nice actually to get just some classic wins for them and again considering what happens i feel it was needed.

[@xsanguine8]

It's nice that they had the time, and tech, to safely evacuate the civilians, and acknowledged that they did, instead of just not having any civilians in the area, when the surprise alien invasion happened.

[@bumfricker2487]

Yeah I’m glad to know the civilians escaped, if they had stuck around a bunch of them might have died. Like maybe even as many as half of them ;)

[@xsanguine8]

1memer there are billions of people outside Wakanda, and Thanos wasn't there to enforce the "only half" policy. So it's totally possible that all in the area could get wiped out.

[@bumfricker2487]

I was more making a joke

[@dtiger818]

The first aspect about the Siege of Wakanda makes sense. However, if this plays out like Infinity did in the comics, the aftermath of the seige will have huge implications for the reign of Ta'Chala. It would be yet another stain on his time as their monarch, and potentially serve as a catalyst for an uprising among it's people as their faith in T'Chala wanes. The other factor is that this battle was a distraction. The point of this was to draw away Scarlet Witch away from The Vision. Once she was gone, their true mission commences. The two battles that you're comparing are very different. One, the battle is a feint. The other, the battle was the point. They were trying to kill everyone and crush the place. While I can't argue that Cap and crew did indeed have the short end of the stick, they we're meant to be anything more than a means to an end. The fight with Iron Man and crew felt like it had higher risk because Thanos was actually there to retrieve the stone. Once he got to Earth, the same level of risk was added to that conflict. Anything else prier was simply a large scale recovery mission.

[@Sharikacat]

Recovery mission? More like a tower defense mission, kind of like the church defense in Age of Ultron. If the opposing army reached the target, game over.

[@gevdarg]

Actually, my favorite part was Cap and Panther charging into the battle. It was almost like they were competing to see who could go there first...LOL

[@AGrayPhantom]

Nice analysis. Wanna do the Wakanda Civil War? Killmonger boasts about having spears that can take down a tank... but never uses them when Tchalla and his people eventually attempt to usurp the throne. Instead we get war rhinos, which is cool, but that would have been the perfect time to use the tank-busting spears.

[@spandytube]

The problem was that the stakes of the Black Order getting to Vision was felt by the characters in the movie but where the stakes for the *audience* lies is entirely with Thanos, who is absent during that battle until the very end. He is the main character of the film, after all.

[@LorenzoDoesntExist]

Except they spent TIME to carefully build up how important Vision's stone is so you DO feel the stakes. They were CLEARLY afraid of the giant spinning saws. They had to step it up a ton to overcome them. Opening the forcefield WAS the gamble/twist and the plan DID fail. Everything you're asking them to do, they've done, but you're saying it's not "visceral" enough. Unless you want r-rated shots of players being dismembered by the creatures, which I'm on board for as well.

[@antoniobrooks474]

I agree. It seems like he wanted the Wakandan battle to be more graphic and that wasn’t even the intention of the battle. The Wakandan battle was literally a distraction to figure out a way to get to Vision and once Proxima had an opportunity to do so, she sent in Corvus Glaive for the kill. There were plenty of moments where they almost lost the battle

[@jvictor3048]

Antonio Brooks Agreed. I mean, the movie makes it pretty clear that they WERE going to lose the battle. If it wasn't for Thor showing up they'd be fucked.

[@GIVEYOURLIFETOJESUSCHRIST]

John Startop I think the point trying to be made is that they could have wrote it better, everything that actually created tension was removed in a second, there was no real struggle. Didn't have to be gritty or dark but if they had those saws or those creatures over running our heros a little longer and then when all hope seems lost... Boom Thor shows up, it would have been better and I agree. The only part that made me feel tension was when Thanos actually got the stone

[@LorenzoDoesntExist]

Cringe. exe If that's the only part you felt tension then you're just overly critical.

[@GIVEYOURLIFETOJESUSCHRIST]

John Startop How am I being over critical? Just because im stating one part of an entire movie i wasn't that excited about doesn't make me over critical lol

[@fastony9659]

Listen, I love my MCU, and they have cool battle sequences. But comparing it to a LOTR battle. Oh yeah, no contest.

[@Zoki4444]

The war felt small too in terms of size. Like, we're talking about cosmic forces. Bruce Banner even warned Tony that Thanos has the largest army in the universe. It bothered me that this ultimate battle was condensed into a small region on Earth. If it really was a huge army and superheroes defending the Earth, I would've expected a lot more to come at Earth than just a Wakanda-localized army.

[@zennim125]

disagree, the battle needed to be more relaxed and professional the movie is already too full of high tension moments if it was also so intense the audience would get numb, it needed to be a moment of optimism, a moment of "yay we can do it"

[@pirateKaiser]

Zennim that's not really how storytelling works. If you want to achieve the catharsis this movie was going for, you shouldn't shy away from going completely dark at the lowest point of the story.

[@chknrsandTBBTROX73]

Why would there be a moment of “Yay! We can do it!”? Did you even get watch the movie? They can’t do it, they lost to Thanos.

[@poppyraima5342]

The point I think the OP was trying to make is that the main part of the Wakanda fight was supposed to be one of the brief moments where we start to feel like "Yeah, maybe things won't be so bad", especially after Thor shows up. Then you contrast that with the Titan fight getting more ominous as those heroes go down before Thanos ultimately makes his way to Earth and wrecks everyone we "know" singlehandedly.

[@supermutantsam1160]

+L O V It's false hope. It's our last opportunity to feel that they have even a minuet chance of claiming victory, but the second Thanos arrives our hope is crushed under his boot.

[@pirateKaiser]

But here's the thing with the lost hope: everything was going great while they were trying to get the gauntlet off and the fight in wakanda was progressing as expected- fairly even. But once Thanos broke free, we were getting mixed signals- one place was going really dark, while another is kind of ok? If everything went to shit, we'd all expect the moment where the heroes finally turn the fight, but then that gets denied (wanda and vision) and again (thor and Thanos) and then they lose completely. So having the wakanda fight be darker will just pronounce that contrast way more.

[@jesuschavez3468]

The titan battle is my favorite action scene of all time but I also really enjoyed the wakanda battle I liked it better than the airport battle in civil war

[@chedderdawg23]

Thankkk youuuuu! Finally someone understands.

[@breezy3392]

The issue i though of in the Battle of Wakanda is that Cap said they don't trade lives...just before trading the lives of hundreds of Wakandan soldiers

[@kylehammerness8814]

The Battle of Helms Deep is so good

[@lessonmet5291]

the only complaint I've had with this film was that it seemed a bit unfair to risk the entire universe by keeping Vision alive for as long as possible. I know they did not have enough time to prepare or work an alternative, or full time to surgically remove the stone while killing a small portion of him like they wanted to; but by the time Thanos arrived, that could have been the time when the hardest decision had to be made. idk, its a small nit pick but I've enjoyed the film overall.

[@justfriends7581]

Jared cervantes nah that isn’t a complaint. Wanda loves Vision and in the MCU she is so shitty with her emotions. It makes sense, after losing her brother why would she want to kill the only person who loves her??? And nobody could of forced her to do it. It was all up to her.

[@ljts6421]

The heroes on earth didn't really know the full threat of Thanos though, they only knew what banner had told them which I presume wasn't the full story. The heroes that knew the full scale of the threat were on Titan.

[@justbny9278]

The people in earth were still confident after beating Ultron and Loki,they thought the Earth Mightiest Heroes could beat anything. But that isn't true.

[@VraserX]

Doesn't really matter, because Thanos already had the Time Stone.

[@BigSleepyOx]

Vision agrees with you. He asked multiple times to sacrifice himself for the universe. lol Maybe he should have just killed himself, then Wanda could've destroyed the stone without the feeling that she's killing Vision in the process. Maybe I'll submit that to CinemaSins lol. (For some reason CinemaSins is dragging its feet on this movie.)

[@matedalirik14]

Good video but I don’t know I always took as the heroes think they can outlast everything and that’s why the “war” don’t feel as deadly, even when thanos shows up the heroes still think they have under control and then the snap, going from “we got this” to “oh god” it’s very impactful.

[@nautilusshell2089]

To show you the power of the infinity stones... *buzzsaw noises* I SAWED THIS UNIVERSE IN HALF

[@dannySESD619]

I respectfully disagree.

[@peterfrank3365]

The biggest difference between 'Avengers: Infinity War' and 'Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers' isn't the tone, it's the runtime. The latter film is about 30 minutes longer. Also, not a fan of the cinematography in Wakanda. But I agree with you generally though. I still think there are thrills in the Wakandan battle but there could've had more. When Cap brought Vision to Wakanda, a threat becomes present to its people and we should've seen more of them -- I'm almost certain there are deleted scenes of this and they were deleted to press time. It's one of the MCU's best, but it could've been their *very* best.

[@bruce000000070000000]

Peter Frank It is their very best, none of the other films have made people feel so much destruction and admiration for a piece of film like this did

[@peterc2672]

Why would we see Wakandans if they all got evacuated? The battle was nothing but a misdirection used by both sides. Avengers thought Thanos was showing up and would distract him until Wanda could destroy the stone. Proxima used it to draw out Wanda and allow the other to try and get the stone. That's why the battle seems so scattered and throw away. Because it was.

[@marcomeme4875]

There is no problem with the battle for Helm’s Deep though 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@whitemike1221able]

Liable Punchline Dispenser helms deep is a great scene but...its a army of nothing fighting our heroes, they add a elf we should care about for 10 mins of the 35+ min battle and only he dies. The videos argument goes against itself.

[@whitemike1221able]

Peter Frank my wife and I watched this and had plans for dinner and drinks after. Plans canceled cause she was pissed "all her friends died". Lol. Took our daughter, she cried, my son loved it, perfect responses to a great movie with great story telling. Action kept my 5 yr old son in it, 10 yr old daughter cried, well done. And the multiple views by me...enjoyed em all

[@manuelmedina38]

wow this video opened my eyes, i totalle agree with you, nice video man

[@navneethgopal1211]

Infinity war is a big movie with separate parallel plots and subplots which are all equally intense and engaging. I am impressed that they actually pulled it off.

[@ringodoom2559]

I think vision was much more disappointing. The character was never really used, IW didnt give me enough time to really buy into the relationship between Scarlet Witch and Vision and Vision didnt get a fight scene that really shows what he can do. I hoped for a fight where he will go all out, but all that happens is that hes stabbed and thats it. From then on he cant really fight and we dont see what he can do.

[@guardianknight5417]

Ringo Doom hmm true vision disnt do much in the movie

[@johnnyoldenjr.]

Because hes outmatched and running for his life

[@Naranek]

For me the biggest issue with the battle is... there is a civilization, which has tech you can't even imagine and yet they do not have some sort of big badass defense weapons, apart from the big dome? Not even some real weapons for the foot soldiers oder the rhinos? Vibranium can do almost anything and their tech is way out of this world... but still... ah.. you get my point...

[@napalm12338]

Ikr, opening up the barrier and funneling them in would've been a whole lot more effective with some rapid fire weapons emplacements firing non stop into the opening

[@noshjix2163]

The problem I have with this take on the Battle of Wakanda is that the stakes are set before they even get to Wakanda. The audience knows that no matter where the fight happens, if they get the stone there will be serious consequences and there were. The audience doesn't need this to be shown in the form of Wakandan citizens in danger because the stakes were already explained during multiple previous scenes including the ones with Tony and Doctor Strange as well as those with Cap, Natasha, Vision et al.

[@stellarhyme3]

Stakes don't make movies because no movie has stakes. They have a beginning and an end and the end is pretty much always the same, the hero wins, the villain loses, rinse and repeat. We all know the end of the ride, we just like the stuff in the middle. For me the Wakanda Battle was good because of character interaction and the fact that goal was to trying to save vision by getting that mind stone out of his head. They knew Thanos would come for it and he'd probably get it. The Avengers were trying to buy time so they could remove the mind stone and destroy it without destroying their friend in the process, those are the stakes right there. As far as the battles in the films goes, Thanos didn't make or break them. They were all good for different reasons. Each field of play had a purpose and that's all you need in these films. Thanos's arrival didn't do much to elevate the Wakanda battle. I liked what had came before more than I liked what happened after Thanos arrived on the scene.

[@nykerianash1590]

WITLESSMASS Not really there’s this things called bittersweet ending. While the good guys might win they can still kill of a character and we don’t see it was coming. There that question of who will survive? The stakes are high for the characters we love.

[@stellarhyme3]

Shayla Nash Death doesn't evoke stakes to me. Death happens every single day, so it's no big deal to me. I'd much rather deal with the emotional ramifications of a conflict than the deaths involved. It's that old statement of Here today, gone tomorrow. Life goes on after a Death and the person that passed will be quickly forgotten about by many. So seeing a character die has never been a big deal to me, but seeing a character live, seeing how his decisions have cost him, that means something. I loved Han Solo, but his Death meant nothing in Awakens. I didn't care about it at all. I don't know how this Cult of Death has arisen with so many people these days. They think Death is some dreaded end, something to be feared. Death isn't loss it's a gain, every death means that life as we know it will continue. Death isn't an end, it's a beginning. If things didn't die, where would the electrons, protons and neutrons come from to create new life? How would new stars be born? How would a Mother bring new life into the world? To me, death in movies are a cheap way to try to elevate a film that really has nothing of substance to offer.

[@nykerianash1590]

WITLESSMASS Not everyone views death that way. Me sometimes I’m afraid however living forever would scare me as well. I just know it’s inevitable and live my life. That being said Thanos is the biggest threat they have faced and should be feared, I just find it civil to how the original avengers survive. Killing of some of them would have had more weight.

[@stellarhyme3]

Shayla Nash If you fear death then you don't understand life. The only way for life to remain an eternal thing is that things have to die. Addington's number dictates that there is a finite amount of electrons and protons in the Universe, that number never changes, you can add to it or take away from it. That being the case...if things hadn't died in the past you wouldn't be here right now. You're a carbon based life form, you're comprised of carbon atoms, without those atoms you wouldn't exist, humanity wouldn't exist. Carbon atoms are only produced by Stars as they die. So Stars that gave life to untold solar systems in the past had to perish so enough carbon atoms could be produced so that carbon based life forms could manifest on worlds that have the proper atmosphere to allow it. If you track your celestial nature, your cosmic origins, not your earthly ones, you'll find that we are one with the Universe. We are the Universe itself just in another form, so there is no death, death is an illusion. Everything is energy and energy doesn't die. What does die is the ego, the mind, your perceived experiences in this world. That's what you're afraid of losing and the ego has no longevity. The ego is a lie, it's not who you truly are. It's the earthly mask you wear daily. A mask that hides your true celestial nature which is Super. These stories you love so much, the Avengers, Captain America, Iron Man are trying to tell you and everyone else that very thing. Every ancient mythology is trying to tell us that, but we miss it cause we're too focused on the things of this earth. As far as the Original Avengers surviving...it makes sense, this is the end of their arc, the end of their story. The journey started with them and it will end with them stopping Thanos. Then phase four will be new and different.

[@nykerianash1590]

WITLESSMASS I just said as much as I fear death,I fear living forever even more. You say it make since for them to be standing but their the ones who’ve made Thanatos into the ultimate threat it would have made since for him to have killed one of them at least.

[@NovaTheVERmin]

A few things to point out 1. I'd be more terrified of a group literally throwing themselves into death and slowly pushing through without even a glimpse of hesitation than people banging spears. 2. Your point about the citizens being evacuated making the scene lacking is questionable when you have to take into consideration the fact that the Avengers have always been about keeping civilians out of dangers way AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE (watch the other 2 films if you don't believe so) I would question more why the avengers knew this would be their last stand and would prefer to keep civilians there just so they die, you also have to think about why they let the disposable aliens in anyway (because they were getting through and running around to the safe place for the citizens of wakanda, something I believe Black Panther would of done regardless of everyone else's opinion 3. Wakandan Warriors were dying just not any mentionable figures and the reason they wouldn't run is self explanatory if you watched Black Panther. "Would you kill your own lover?" "For Wakanda.... I'd sacrifice anything" 4. The entire point of this scene wasn't for dread and despair the entire time, just for Thanos' arrival. The avengers fought valiantly, they were being overwhelmed, Thor comes in starts saving everyone (remember that banner was almost ripped apart if it wasn't for Thor, even Cap was starting to be dragged down by numbers) but then they are holding them all back, winning the fight giving the audience hope or a sense of the Avengers will win and defend and find a way to stop Thanos! But then Thanos arrives for the only purpose of showing just how hopeless they truly were. The point this entire scene was to show just how POWERFUL Thanos is. His lackeys are less than pawns that the Avengers can deal with as a team but it just shows how big the difference in power is. They held their own against an army against the odds they were going to win but in front of Thanos' power they couldn't even compete. It's not an epic tension battle like Helms Deep, it's a set-up for Infinity Wars 2

[@finn264]

President P. Porygon Why the fuck did I pay 70 dollars just to see a setup tho. There is no part 2. The title of part 2 was scrapped and now its just avengers 4

[@finn264]

President P. Porygon Why the fuck is it called an avengers movie if they don’t even assemble

[@finn264]

President P. Porygon why the fuck wasn’t Hawkeye there

[@NovaTheVERmin]

Little Fav if you spent 70 dollars on a set up to a scenario that's a you problem (even though the film was great regardless) And don't give me the "there is no part 2". Cause that argument is totally valid. "We totally decided to just end the Avengers with Thanos getting all the infinity stones and now we just cut off that part of the MCU and start from scratch" if they did scrap the "part 2" in the title it just means it won't be in the title.

[@ElenaParadoxP]

2. That's exactly the point he is making. the avengers care about civilian so if the movie shows that civilians are still being evacuated it gives the avengers another reason why they need to stop the army. He's not saying they should have kept the civilians in wakanda. 4. The avengers fought valiantly yes. But his point imo is that their tactic seems to be just "wait for the aliens to show up and charge them upfront". and that's it. there's no other tactic, nothing but that. they could have had something else. like for example, the second narnia movie had a similar situation, and one thing they did was destroy some undergrounds tunnels so the enemy army fell down that hole before they reached the narnians. That's interesting. another thing they did was have another way out that was behind the enemy army so they could surround them. Now i'm not saying they should've done the same thing. but things like that would've made the battle more interesting, and actually made it seem like the avengers planned something

[@ananimeplace.3808]

Thank goodness there’s no problem with my manga

[@chknrsandTBBTROX73]

Eiichiro Oda Except for the fact that it’s boring and unnecessarily long and represents everything wrong with Shonen anime and manga.

[@AlecArtComics]

Stop. No need to fight guys. Manga and Comics can co-exist in harmony. Both are excellent mediums full of epic-ness.

[@midizakaria8742]

L O V based on your comment, you probably didn't even read One Piece because it's too long

[@user-zv2vm8bd8h]

How about learning to draw normal legs to your characters Oda?

[@jjproductions7236]

L O V I disagree it’s one my favorite. Easily better than naruto, DBZ, MHA. I can’t imagine any other world that feels more real than one piece.

[@lags30]

I really feel this big battle really weak and forgetable , but i didn't know why until now, great video!

[@TheChnecht]

The lack of immigrant soundtrack when thor appears. ))):

[@evanbalfour1743]

I felt we didn’t need to see civilians and get invested in their survival as half of them would die anyway by the end of the movie regardless.

[@Voeris1]

I thought it was fine. The Helm's Deep battle was going for something else. Apples and oranges imo.

[@user-ex9ti7ds3m]

Didn't think about this at the time but you're right

[@bartandaelus359]

several years later, Hemsworth bellowing "BRING. ME. THANOS!" still gets me rock hard.

[@ceviche4life951]

I would’ve loved to have the Wakanda battle be a 360 panoramic kind of shot where there aren’t any cuts like it was in the first Avengers movie, passing on the camera from on hero onto the other

[@diegom6053]

Lol so basically this guy wanted the battle of Wakanda to be a copy of the battle of the two towers. And then people wonder why studios don't listen to fans.

[@abstractrain1246]

Diego M I thought the Wakanda battle was good in my first viewing, not because it was good, but the build up and hype over it were key factors. Captain America and Black Panther racing to battle got everyone pumped, and Thor's arrival got everyone wet ;)

[@couchgamingnews9379]

Diego M so your angry because he saw the huge flaws in the fight and you want to ignore his views and opinions because you cant handle it. 😑 and you wonder why people dont read your comment

[@PrimeDiam]

@Couch gaming news You make no sense... I don't think you can handle someone fighting your boyfriend's opinion. Stop being a fanboy. Diego can handle his views, but this vid's viewpoint was invalid at several things. It was very one-sided.

[@IronPsyde]

Where were the military’s of the world while this battle happened!

[@harrymcmullen2227]

I would be interested in seeing you revisit this. I love the Battle of Helm’s Deep, but the two movies are simply telling two different stories. Throughout the film, Thanos spares people he doesn’t *have* to kill in his quest. His goal isn’t to kill everyone in Wakanda, he just wants the stone to snap his fingers. There’s no reason for the movie to focus on the civilians of Wakanda because unlike Helm’s Deep, they aren’t the antagonist’s target - Vision is. The movie does an excellent job of establishing the characters’ motivations and moulding the sequence around them. That’s why moments such as Wanda and later Vision himself entering the fray are so effective - what should be a triumphant super hero moment is subverted because it actually brings the heroes closer to their downfall - protecting Shuri long enough to remove the Stone is more important than killing Outriders or saving each other from them. But because they “don’t trade lives” the heroes play into the villain’s hands and wind up being defeated. That’s good battle plan storytelling. It also feels intentional that the heroes never seem to truly dread what’s in front of them. Every battle we’ve seen these characters fight, in their own stories and previous Avengers films, they’ve survived - and won. And they’ve done so by doing what’s right. None of them would suspect that doing the same thing here would be their downfall - so we get beat after beat of the heroes getting some small victory, like Thor entering Wakanda or Vision saving Captain America, only for Thanos to still keep coming and ultimately prevail. Much of the shock of the Snap comes from how deep down none of the heroes on Wakanda thought they would fail.

[@PiiskaJesusFreak]

I think I kinda agree and kinda disagree with you. I agree that Caps teams segments were somewhat weaker. The important thematic twists happen outside the battle (we don't trade lives for lives), and the big battle is just playing that choice out. I think it could have been improved, but for me it didn't feel like the ball was dropped. When those circle saw things came, the heroes seemed genuinely powerless against them and T'challa gave the order to fall back. And they had a massive impact on the battlefield: sure, Wanda defeated them easily, but it came at the cost of leaving Vision defenseless, and the whole point of the battle was to protect him. And when Avengers were being overwhelmed, the scene managed to sell it to me. Though I agree that character death would have made it even more convincing (but who? Bucky?). In battle for Helms deep, all the enemies are essentially the same. Here we have also the black order, who pose a genuine threath to our heroes, which brings more variety to the battle. So, though I also think it could have been even better, I think it was already quite good the way it was. Having civilians there would have raised the stakes, but 1) the outsiders were not interested in them in the first place, they were going for the Vision so single mindedly that they were killing themselves 2) why would anyone live so close to the border and the forcefield? It is clearly a prepared killing ground, not meant against aliens but colonial powers. Bringing civilians into the battle would be weird, except if the enemy managed to bring the battle to the city where Vision was. Maybe that could have been a thing?

[@ColdFuse96]

Another think I’d like to add I don’t know if any of you noticed this, but the battle formation that the Wakandan army used was the exact same one that was used by the real life African warlord Shaka Zulu It’s called the Bull Horns formation (I think) and it’s basically where the majority of the army is in 2 squares that attack the enemy head on, with 2 other formations in the form of crescent moons (or horns, hence the name) flank and entrap the enemy’s army from the left and right sides of the field. This was an actual battle tactic used in African military history, but the problem with the one used in this movie was that it was *TOO DAMN SMALL!!!* I’m not saying the army was small, but the whole formation was too compressed. The whole point of it was to catch the enemy off guard from either side, but the one used in this movie had the army too clumped together, and everyone attacked all at once, instead of letting the primary and secondary formations attack first, followed by the left and right horns to entrap and attack the enemy by surprise. Now I haven’t actually seen Black Panther quite yet, but I somehow know this formation and how it works already, and it was just a minor but annoying frustration of mine to see them use that battle formation so incorrectly. It was like watching someone hammer down a nail using the handle of a hammer instead of the actual hammer head. It was like YOU’RE DOING IT *WRONG!!!!*

[@ianarce1970]

It would be cool to see the perspective of a soldier fighting while getting swarmed, and all the hero’s going around the battlefield trying their best

[@-gemberkoekje-5547]

The black order breaks the barrier and forces come from all sides, wakandan forces get killed, wakandan civilians are scared, the saws come, wakandan armies are scared. Basically more focus on wakanda