The Problem with True Crime

[@cherrybepsi]

Just realized that the timestamps for the flashing lights warning are missing a 3 🤡 The seconds listed are still accurate, it was just meant to say 34:10 to 34:27 instead of 3:10 to 3:27!

[@efenty6235]

were they missing a 3 or a 4

[@citonita2207]

why have i never considered how unnecessary and inappropriate it was to release the elevator footage until now.... this hit on a lot of good points. i was alienated from my favorite murder the first ep i listened to as well, and buzzfeed unsolved also feels wildly out of line at least when it's about cases in such recent history that the ppl affected by it are still alive today. it doesn't feel right to focus on the fun of dark humor and not the humanization of someone's tragedy, but the humanizing podcasts are much heavier and more difficult to spend time with. it's definitely someth on my mind when poking around for the details on a gory situation

[@cherrybepsi]

Yeah that's exactly why I can't just binge true crime stuff :/ It just weighs so heavy on you

[@bisexualantigone]

@@cherrybepsi yeah, same. i listen to some podcasts and supernatural cases and hoaxes i can process quicker but i realised this episode about jonestown i think, made me feel very heavy and i just am not a fan of videos like "true crime and makeup" either...

[@DearestClover]

huh, I've never seen a true crime podcast that focuses more on the humanising part. if possible, I'd appreciate if you could send me some links to these podcasts :>

[@citonita2207]

@@DearestClover well sure! I haven't listened to these shows in full (or recently), so apologies if they don't hold up like I remember. the best: Generation Why. namely their Dahmer episode was very thoughtful and sober, i remember it most for shedding light on the police homophobia and racism that left the victims on their own. others: In The Dark, The Grift, and Cults. though Cults is a little corny to me, the Ant Hill Kids episode stayed with me for a looong time. i think they also did a Manson episode that was awesome. big tw for all shows, of course. take care! - art19(.)com/shows/generation-why-podcast?q=dahmer - features(.)apmreports(.)org/in-the-dark/season-one/ - podcasts(.)apple(.)com/us/podcast/the-grift/id1221448604 - open(.)spotify(.)com/show/4JbxNUkWfveKC0xnKrK7tX?si=0c915f594332404e

[@ileezamotherofrain4537]

There wasn't really a good reason to release the footage of Lam, as far as I know. Did anyone think it would actually help in figuring out what happened to her? It doesn't seem so.

[@valeriarossini543]

I agree with every single point you made, but especially when you explained how true crime “romanticises” killers while putting zero emphasis on the victims. That's actually the reason I stopped watching true crime documentaries, cause some of the stuff they said/showed was honestly just vile :/

[@cherrybepsi]

Yeah, like in Tiger King when they showed some very triggering footage multiple times for basically no reason other than sensationalizing it :/

[@lilyv8253]

@@cherrybepsi :O what footage are you talking about ?

[@Nimish204]

Mainly because focusing on the victim would make people feel sad, and then the audience might not watch it.

[@fileboy2002]

What would focusing on the victims look like in practice? What makes victims so sympathetic is their ordinariness. Aside from the terrifying way they died, most don’t seem to have particularly compelling personal stories.

[@briannahayes7178]

It’s weird because my experience has showed me that true crime creates victim mentality in women especially those with underline intellectual disabilities…it will cripple a woman and have her constantly paranoid of everyone…and cause anxiety after while …social anxiety is common in people who binge watch these true crime shows

[@polin1710]

I absolutely hate how they never respect the victims and treat them as numbers, sometimes as accomplishments for the killer. A lot of people glamorize killers specifically female killers, what is the fascination on serial killers? I read cases and about serial killers to find out about motive, how they think and why they did what they did but I always feel sick and have to take multiple breaks and skip aloof parts, so why do some people treat literal people who died for no reason with such disrespect, why do scumbags deserve to be glorified? -to clarify these are all my opinions

[@unknownengines]

as someone with a couple of stigmatized psychiatric diagnoses, it really rubs me the wrong way how so much true crime media (and the fans thereof) seem to revel in playing armchair psychiatrist to high-profile killers. fixating on and sensationalizing any mental health issues killers had or might have had results (in my view, at least) in those mental health issues being associated with violence and deviance in the popular imagination. i don’t think i need to explain why that sucks lmao

[@abbysworld05]

I watch true crime, what makes no sense is how much they focus on the criminal, not just their crimes but how they focus a lot about their past and why they are that way and about how they are mentally, but somehow don’t focus on the victims or their family like ever, not how they were effected by them and talking about their past and talking about their experience, but nope cuz apparently we need to know these things about the criminal but we really don’t, the main thing we should know is the crimes they committed and then ask to talk to the people involved so that they understand what happened to them and how they survived and how it has effected them, but I also think we should talk about their past too, yes we should talk about the crimes the criminal did but that’s about it cuz we get a better idea of what actually happened by talking to family and the victim themselves

[@lillyafshar4361]

I adore all the work you’ve put into this. Also I didn’t realize how badly I needed to listen to someone absolutely DUNK on ted Bundy until just now. I’ve always hated how people described him. White supremacy will literally always be perpetuated by media that refuses to critically engage with or acknowledge it, and that includes podcasts and genres like true crime.

[@tlowery2074]

I grew up in seattle and had a math teacher who worked at a local business with Ted. She said he was weird and off putting. She also said she is convinced he was going to target her once at her house but got thwarted when he realized her bf was there.

[@madi5286]

Once i heard he represented himself in court i knew he wasnt smart or charming. I hadnt seen a picture before so i was kinda shocked at how ugly he also was. Pick a struggle ted

[@gala6308]

any true crime thing that so much as implies that the cops did their jobs and caught the killer without a hitch or because it was their job/moral duty is automatically untrustworthy. research into almost any true crime topic will show extreme (many times willful) incompetence from law enforcement at best and outright corruption and/or enabling of crimes at worst, and both were the case with bundy, as you said. i agree with basically everything you said in this video; i find it disgusting how so many murderers are put on pedestals and the amount of victim blaming in the passages you read aloud was honestly enraging. thank you for bringing up elisa lam in the way that you did, too; there is/was a youtube ad going around about a ghost adventures special in the cecil hotel and it just felt so gross hearing her name in that context. my god just leave her the fuck alone. let her rest.

[@tlowery2074]

If you’ve watched the night stalker, you know what a weird pro-cop spin they put on that one in an attempt to not glorify Richard Ramirez 😒

[@allisonbee]

being interested in true crime is a stepping stone from being an adult disney fan

[@cherrybepsi]

literally your third eye is wide open

[@fullmetaltranshumanist8511]

Oh no.

[@Nightman221k]

I feel like most of the true crime white girls on youtube only emphasize the victims as much as wikipedia allows... and they say the same cliches, "She was SUCH a beautiful girl. Her smile lit up the room where ever she went. It's so sad she's dead you guys!" It's so glib and makes me think how they always say this but I wonder what they do when it's an unattractive introvert who gets murdered who they can't coo about and say was pretty and smiley.

[@christmastree6817]

this is kind of off topic but i don't get why people feel the need to paint all murder victims as angelic saints. some murder victims were horrible people, its fine to not want to badmouth them but there's no need to go to the opposite extreme of straight lying about who they really were

[@adrianmiller7969]

this is such an excellent breakdown of how repulsive and fetishy that true crime always feels to me. they dont care about justice, they care about entertaining themselves with the pain of people whos families might still be alive and able to see that media today.

[@cherrybepsi]

That last part is what really gets me. I was reading into Bundy's cases and the parents of the victims were already so grief-stricken, and then they talked about having to see the absolute circus going on outside the courtroom everyday. I can't even imagine :(

[@adrianmiller7969]

@@cherrybepsi seriously ! :((

[@larissabrglum3856]

I know a woman who's been missing for three months, and now that the case has gotten national attention, true crime fans feel free to comment on it as if it's a fun mystery to make fan theories about.

[@tashibalampkin8555]

You made a good point. There is almost no emphasis on the victims. There problems, their fears, or what mean have caused them to die.

[@agapomis]

That clip from the podcast is nauseating… the poor survivors and families having people like that out there

[@ijtmakesthings7321]

This was very informative! The idea of the true crime fandom seemed a bit weird to me, but I couldn’t have explained it beyond “Those are real murders.” So I’m glad you took a deep dive into what’s wrong with the way it’s handled. Also, I’d never heard of “My Favorite Murder” before this, but that IS a weird title. How do you have a favorite murder? Like, real murder?

[@cherrybepsi]

LITERALLY like this isn't Friday the 13th or something 😭

[@trueCrimeGuruYes]

Men are projecting their own sexual fantasies on random woman. "Oh she was so guilty with thoughts of infidelity with this handsome stranger" is something they made up when the reality is that he didn't seduce them and he was talking about her husband and felt bad about his cast and then got scared off when he was trying to get her somewhere alone.

[@mariashakhanina5664]

as you said, those shots in the hotel cecil film on netflix were really so unnecessary and when I saw it I couldn't believe how they thought it was okay to shoot something like that. Elisa is a real person, and it's so sad how no one seems to remember it anymore. and that poor guy who was blamed! it's so dumb that they chose him as the mr killer and at the same time so real and terrifying. no one deserves what he got. I couldn't watch that documentary. to me it felt like they were romanticizing everything about the very real tragedy that it all was. making "aesthetically pleasing" shots of a girl underwater. just ew. I can't even describe how horrid that is

[@madi5286]

I hope her poor family gets something from any of this. They seem to want peace and quiet more than anything.

[@lukesguywalker]

wow. i never heard about the singer they accused of being responsible for the murder. i hope he's doing okay

[@cherrybepsi]

he said he was in a better place in the docuseries, but yeah that got WAY out of hand for absolutely no reason :(

[@thealrightoddity]

I'm returning to this video almost two years later comment and say that this video made me start to rethink my own relationship to "true crime content", be it docuseries or youtubers, and i've found my own issues with the genre as well as the critiques you bring up. thank you again for the time and effort you put into this essay!

[@tashibalampkin8555]

I'm not into True Crime videos that much. But I dont understand why people have to make things into "I'm not like other people because I like (insert subject)." Like, damn. Like what you like and keep it pushing.

[@and1pants]

I love your analysis of the Ted Bundy effect, the excerpts you shared are so demonstrative of the sexism and sensationalism of the time but it’s really helpful to have them pointed out because they’re easily glossed over!!

[@cherrybepsi]

Thank you! Yeah it was crazy how many sources (usually written by white men) took so much effort to build him up into this handsome charismatic guy

[@larissabrglum3856]

The stench of misogyny was strong

[@aryn456]

I am watching this video for the first time, and am only at 2 minutes, but the intro already resonates with me a lot. There is a True Crime Podcast that exists in various translations, and I used to listen to the German one. It was a very factual, straight to the point thing. The English original had a few different topics, so I decided to check that one out as well. When I tell you I was shocked by it. It started with a POV retelling of the crime, like a fanfiction. I was so appaulled by it. And it surprised me just how different and better the German version of it was. Truly baffling. Edit: I have watched the whole video now and want to expand on my comment. The German version of the Podcast does have moody music, but it feels more like someone is reading a wikipedia entry to you, rather than a fanfiction. They expand on the lives of the victims, of their current situations at the time etc., humanizing them. This was the kind of true crime stuff I interacted with, and when I started watching video essays of this sort on true crime it was absolutely shocking to me that people interacted so carelessly with these stories, that others who "enjoy" true crime enjoy it not like a wikipedia entry but like a fanfiction (not to mention those videos where people do their make up or something while talking about it, I don't understand how people can genuinely trust them to tell the order of events etc. accurately). Either way, I have stopped interacting with true crime content a long time ago, and seeing things such as the Jeffrey Da hmer series on Netflix make me sick to my stomach. I genuinely wish people would be more conscious not just about what they consume, but also how they consume it. (And I hope Evan Peters gets to play more light-hearted roles like Quicksilver again in the future.)

[@vyrkolakas]

i feel like netflix thought they were pointing out how obviously awful these vloggers are but failed by doing the exact same thing they did

[@vyrkolakas]

not to mention filming homeless people and talking about "dark energy" in a place where a city dumps living people they dont want to be responsible for that are vulnerable to opportunistic killers and suicide, as well succumbing to illnesses they dont have proper medical care for. but no the cecil hotel just has dark energy i guess

[@cherrybepsi]

Omg yes I didn't even touch on the blatant classism going on there. It was so gross how they kept framing people who literally just had nowhere else to go as this "spooky scary" element to the hotel like no, the real horror here is capitalism and gentrification

[@karakurie]

Yes! Yes! Yes! Thank you for everything you said about Ted Bundy. I remember when that Zac Efron movie came out and I ranted for days about how Ted Bundy's narrative was super misogynistic and made by him. He hated women and talked about them in the same way that we talk about his victims now, that they were ditzy and fell for him. But all the victims were good decent people or just plain innocent, sleeping. He killed children even. I remember watching one interview from a woman who got in his car because he offered to take her to her destination (she wasn't hitch hiking) and she needed the help so she took it. It had nothing to do with him. And I remember doing the exact same thing as her. I need to go to the mall, don't know where it is. Man offers to take me there, much easier than trying to remember directions. That has nothing to do with him being charming. Its just so disgusting that people keep this story of him being so charming when he wasn't, he killed women because he hated women and the women were just kind. (I'm ranting again...lol)

[@redthunderbird7332]

You demonstrated the problems with True Crime SO well here, and I especially appreciated the clip you played from the podcast: the way they were talking about murderers and serial killers literally sounds like they're a FAN of the people they hear about (who are murdering human beings). Like it sounds like they're talking about a celebrity they'd be excited to encounter. It reminds me of this one White tiktoker who's been doing true crime stories about mmiw or other murdered Indigenous people, & they begin so many of these tiktoks by smiling and being all giggly and saying "hi crimetok, how're you? 🥰" & similar things. Like I think of how many girls I know who went missing or murdered, my classmates, my cousin, a woman who was murdered, & then her murderer, whom someone I loved had also encountered & been personally abused by (but narrowly escaped), or how my rez has to release warnings every so often for when there's a suspicious white person driving by schools a little too slowly & too often. Like people from my ethnicity are regularly & overly targeted for murder & its terrifying for us & a lived reality, but for this one white person she's all. Happy. She's ENJOYING these stories about us while we're grieving. Like we're 3x more likely to be murdered & the police don't care about us & its terrifying to know that but glad we could be a source of entertainment for her (while she refuses to show an ounce of sympathy for the victim or seriousness for the grimness of the situation, or acknowledge WHY there's so many neglected & unsolved cases for Indigenous murders) I guess. This was such a necessary videom& I hope these true crime ppl see it and think about how uncaring this type of thing is & smarten up.

[@PherseIssac]

This is such a good video deconstructing so many of the problems with the true crime community. I also experienced being recommended MFM and tried to listen to it, and only got like 15 min into the first episode before i had to turn it off. I cannot imagine the pain and trauma of both losing a family member/friend and then have complete strangers on the internet jump to wild conclusions so they can sell the listeners in the suburbs personal security systems or whatever. The only vaguely TC things that ive ever actually enjoyed were done by actual investigative journalists in discussions of how police incompetence and bigotry against various vulnerable groups resulted in systemic injustices.

[@cherrybepsi]

Yeah investigative journalists > law enforcement & true crime groupies imo

[@jackstevens585]

Can’t believe I’m just finding this 3 years later!!! I’ve been commenting on tons of true crime videos about how awful they truly are!!! True crime got me into becoming a victim advocate!!! True crime is just that True!!! It has real victims that had families and loved ones. And they aren’t here anymore. They are gone. It’s final! Hopefully creators will figure it out and celebrate the victims and their families not the perpetrators!

[@emmagibson278]

Makeup&Murder videos and shows like Aurora Teagarden were my last straw with this genre of True Crime. The Makeup thumbnails always have the same pattern- Cute, colorful headshot of posing guru, with b&w photos of victim/perpetrator used as a background. Even in the thumbnail, the crime is second to the cut crease. Mentioning this gets you fans saying "But (guru) is a good person!" as if that justifies their gimmick. If anyone wants more 'quirky white detective' media to analyze, I'd recommend those Hallmark Aurora movies. Aurora herself is like you took the ladies of My Favorite Murder, removed their ability to swear, and then gave them way too much access to crime scenes and remains. It's painful, but fascinating in it's stupidity.

[@Nightman221k]

I feel like videos like that make me pray to God that there's a spectral plane after we die, cause if I get murdered by a serial killer and some vapid bint makes a video caking on ho-face makeup while talking about how the serial killer stabbed my guts out I'd feel so personally affronted that I'd haunt her ass till she ran into traffic.

[@dtsotm]

this!! i remember coming across that bailey girl and just being shocked that there were no comments calling out how icky it was, any criticism of her is always shot down with “but she speaks about them respectfully” like… i don’t care HOW respectfully she speaks about people, doing your makeup while taking about real tragedies that happened to real people is inherently disrespectful

[@theeraserqueen]

in many ways I feel like true crime serves to justify the current carceral system and induce a frankly unfounded paranoia of serial killers considering how few cases there actually are in relation to the sheer amount of media coverage and fascination they generate. Like how they always end in the killers getting locked up and with how sensationalized the stories are and how they have persisted in the public imagination it's insane how because they are so blown up you can see people make arguments against removal of the death penalty or against reducing prison populations because of these horrifying outliers. Like in general I find it very weird how people in the my favorite murder clip or other bits I have seen from other true crime podcasts that center the idea they could someday meet a serial killer and consider themselves and listeners as possible next victims to be very weird and tasteless and like you wonder what exactly are they trying to sell? more paranoia? especially when this kind of content is so uncritically supportive of cops who are like actually out here murdering people regularly!!

[@cloud3147]

Yes!!! You articulated my own thoughts so well.

[@cherrybepsi]

Omg yes like people are worrying about these fictional serial killers when cops are literally killing people every single day with no consequences!

[@Nimish204]

All murderers deserve to be hanged.

[@tardyrenegade3262]

THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THAT TED BUNDY WAS A REPUBLICAN!! that is like the first thing i say whenever i hear someone using the "handsome and charming" narrative about him- he was a republican. he was not smart, he was not charming.

[@ChildOfTheFlower]

And the KKK was started by the Democrats, what's your point?

[@Name-dl3uq]

@@ChildOfTheFlower and yet in the modern day and age wh1te suprxmxcists, mxmbers of kkk and nxzis are all republicans. Dem0graphics changed. The same people that would have identified as democrats and be for kkk back during slxvxry days now identify as republican. (remember the un1te the right r*lly? Pretty sure there were no democrats there lmao.) Pretty sure the modern nxzi would punch you in the face for calling him a dem or a leftie. The kkk flags and confxderacy flxgs and nxzi fl*gs are only being waved at far r1ght r*llies.

[@vesperfromtheinternet5588]

literally told my sister and my ex gf/bestie to NEVER let me become a footnote in someone else's ~illustrious career~ as a serial killer and after watching this video i am only more secure in my conviction that i made the right call

[@cherrybepsi]

Legit if I die under mysterious circumstances do NOT let one of these white girls talk about me on their podcast in between their shitty wine jokes 😩

[@gloriad814]

the whole thing about “elisa lam felt like a sister to me” reminds me a lot of when john walker said “steve rogers felt like brother to me”, and in tfatws it is painted as a weird thing to say, so evidently it’s not really appropriate. there we also see how bucky reacts, which could be how elisa’s actual sister would react to that part of the docuseries. watching that whole series i was like “it’s not about you!?”

[@elenamaxima4535]

I never understood why people liked true crime podcasts because they're talking about dead people, who most times were people of color that were insanely violated. Like I didn't know who Jack the Ripper was (I thought he was just some guy that they named the Nightmare before Christmas skeleton after) but then hearing about how his victims were sex workers in a poor district in London and people were still talking about it like it isn't a horrific thing is so weird to me. I get that people feel a cathartic release by listening to these grisly happenings while being safely removed from the crime itself, but it is very telling why most true crime enthusiasts and serial killer stans are white middle aged women, who in the pecking order only ever had to fear white men. This video was well-researched and I admire you for articulating it well (40 minutes long OMG). I especially like that you list your sources in the video as well, although it kinda unnerves me when you stop talking for a while 😅 I thought my earphones were busted until I saw that you just flashed the article on the screen. Hope you stay safe! Thank you again for another great video essay.

[@cherrybepsi]

Thank you!! And also sorry about that haha, I record on my phone so when I want a pause in the audio I just have to cut the recording for a few seconds 🙈

[@Nimish204]

What's with the identity politics?

[@jdbrink3610]

This is a really well-done video, thank you for making it. You've articulated a lot of things that I feel I have the same issues with regarding the current state of true crime, and there were a few points you made regarding parasocial relationships and how the focus of most modern true crime seems to be on the victims that reminded me to do some introspection as to why I enjoy the genre. Hearing the women on My Favorite Murder talk about a real situation like it was a slasher movie made my stomach churn. I understand liking the macabre, but when I want to have fun with it and make jokes, I go for fiction, not something that actually happened and resulted in a death of a real human being.

[@cherrybepsi]

Thank you for watching! And yeah the whole thing with MFM has really made me wonder where this culture of "if I enjoy something then I can consume it uncritically" has come from, because that's really the underlying tone I get from their podcast (and podcasts like it)

[@hydnumm9219]

I love true crime, but I can't stand a majority of true crime media. I feel like more recent true crime stories are just kinda dehumanizing and disrespectful, not only to the victim but also for the family.

[@93desousa]

Thank you for writing and publishing this video. I have always disliked true crime as a genre. Something is disturbingly voyeuristic about a genre that entertains through real crimes. The fact that we are already doing it with the Gabby Pepito case. People are positing updates to their social media like it's a TMZ celebrity story.

[@Maya-uj6fm]

The Ted Bundy stuff was so interesting, I mean I had heard a bit about the police incompetence w the girlfriends report aspect but not the stuff like him using his actual name with potential victims and also people finding him creepy/off putting/sus from the start. The narrative around him is so wild

[@Woot100]

thank you so much for putting all this time and energy into such an excellent and thoughtful video-- as someone who has suffered from bipolar for a very long time and is close with many other people on the psychosis spectrum, many of which have been in serious danger at one time or another due to their condition, the voyeurism and ableism around this case has always made me feel deeply disgusted and honestly really, really unsafe around nonpsychotics. I (and I'm sure this is true of many other neuro-atypical people) often worry: If I were to die like that, would they say the same about me? If a psychotic person I knew and loved died like that, would I have to watch social media explode with clickbait about their final moments? I truly do not understand the appeal of picking apart someone else's suffering like that. it was especially stomach churning to see so many people claiming to have a "connection" with this complete stranger come SO CLOSE to just... feeling empathy for someone who went through something terrible. Like anyone would. And STILL so many miss the mark. Thank you for holding onto your empathy, though. I think this is the kindest and most careful discussion of this case I've ever seen. You've done a fantastic job and I can't wait to see whatever else you do. Again, thank you thank you thank you.

[@cherrybepsi]

thank you, this was very touching to read ❤

[@mcsmaria28]

34:57 - the podcast You’re Wrong About has a good episode on this topic (murder). I believe they said the murder clearance rate has actually gone down and really, “clearance” just means there was an arrest, doesn’t mean there was a conviction, doesn’t account for maybe someone being wrongly accused, just an arrest was made. And they also pointed out, most murders are really over banal things and they’re really just solved in the most banal way, just the first person on scene talking to someone and finding out what happened. It’s a really good Episode. Worth a listen

[@Movies-Wom3nn]

Thank you so much for this thorough and insightful analysis. I really hate the direction that true crime platforms have gone in. I love how you talked about the glib and cavalier nature of true crime vloggers/podcasters. We are now to the point where vloggers have gimmicks like doing GRWM'S or having a cup of coffee while discussing the most disgusting crimes 😕. The disconnect of not seeing the problem with talking about gruesome acts and assault of vulnerable people of all ages while putting on lipstick is astounding. Can you imagine how the living family members would feel watching someone putting on blush while talking about the horrific last moments of their loved one in a annoying voice?

[@roslyn737]

This was so good!! It raised some really interesting points and gave me the language to articulate why the commercialisation of true crime doesn't sit right with me. I'm a fan of some true crime content which is respectful of the victims, but it's so easy to cross the line into exploitation. I also listened to MFM once and had to turn it off because the tone was so uncomfortable, but people justify it by saying it's a 'comedy' podcast, not true crime one which, imo, makes it even worse.............anyway I really enjoyed your arguments, I've liked and subscribed and am looking forward to your next video :)

[@cherrybepsi]

Thank you so much! 💖

[@LeLiuOfficial]

The Elisa Lam series on Netflix was filled with irrelevant topics throughout. It's one of the worst true crime docs on Netflix. Could've cut out half the episodes, and should have explored her mental health or family background or other issues more related to the case.

[@mariashakhanina5664]

thank you so much for this video! wonderfully made, and you speak so clearly!! English is still pretty hard for me, and yet I could enjoy the video without subtitles. I honestly never viewed true crime from this perspective and so what you said was pretty eye-opening. I suddenly got seriously into it in quarantine but lately it started to feel off and numbing almost - and now I found this video and I get just how much is wrong with that phenomenon. thank you once more. this video really got me thinking.

[@cherrybepsi]

Oh that's good to hear! This is a longer video so getting captions up will take a bit longer for me than usual, so I'm glad you were still able to enjoy it 🥰 Also thank you for watching with an open mind! Reading that this video was able to give another perspective really made my day honestly ❤

[@Huntracony]

Sidenote about victim stories: I quite like this about the Black Lives Matter movement. The focus is on the victims again. Sure, the murderers get some attention, and the detectives don't exist, but we talk about the murder of George Floyd, not the murder by Derek Chauvin.

[@milanpowell5759]

another banger, u never miss. i usually do partake in some true crime content (Stephanie soo is one of my fav KZbinrs lmao) but I've always had grievances with it & this put it perfectly, and opened me up to a lot more too. if I were brutally murdered and somebody made content about it & made money off dehumanizing me they'd get haunted lmao

[@cherrybepsi]

thank you 😌 and i actually really like stephanie soo's baking a mystery series! she talks about horror movies and books and i'm obsessed

[@angelnumbers47]

this was a very good and well thought out video, and made me realize how so much of true crime today puts the focus on the perpetrators instead of the victims. i'm not really involved in the true crime community, but there is one youtuber i watch, eleanor neale, who i think is an outlier to this. hers is the only true crime content i've seen that feels like it's made out of a desire to inform rather than sensationalize, and is done so with actual respect to the victims. at the beginning of her videos she usually spends time talking about the victim's likes, dislikes, plans, family and friends, and in general just makes them seem like actual people instead of having this detached/distorted view like a lot of true crime content. she also is not afraid to point out faults of the police in an investigation and rarely even discusses the names of the detectives or discusses theories on cases. in my opinion true crime content can never be truly respectful as it is being used as entertainment but i think she's as close as it gets.

[@claire463]

Your video is so well thought out and everything is very well put!! You clarified and explained a lot of what always rubbed me the wrong way about this kind of thing (sensationalizing, romanticizing etc) but I couldn't ever find the words. Also have to say 19:00 made me laugh "when he looked like this" yeah

[@cherrybepsi]

😌

[@ileezamotherofrain4537]

It is also important to know that so many victims are minorities, poor, unhoused, sex workers, and/or other people who don't, apparently, make headlines that interest the public.

[@sircicadas]

this was really interesting! i wouldn't say i'm a "fan" of true crime (because that's just Weird to say, like Yikes) but i would say learning about cases has always been rather fascinating to me especially when i was in high school and just read wikipedia articles in my free time. not to get into the "mind of a killer" or whatever but just like, for timelines and stuff?? i don't know i was weird in high school, but that's part of the reason that i feel like i like buzzfeed unsolved so much. they talk more about the timeline of the events and the "story", i guess, and not to get into the "mind of the killer". even though it's all trivial because it's real tragedies i guess, at least i'm aware of it?? anyway a lot of your points (especially all the dunking on bundy let's go!) make a lot of sense. i used to listen to my favorite murder but i stopped because it did get overwhelming with all their announcements and anecdotes at the beginning of each of the later episodes, and now looking back on it it does feel like "i'm not like other girls, i'm into true crime and MURDER" like you explained, and it's kinda weird for them to be talking about brutal murders one minute and then talk about VPNs or that food company the next. i know they improve over the episodes and they have some sort of podcast company now, but i just don't vibe with their content specifically anymore and i definitely think your video was eye-opening about the way i intake "true crime" content... even though it's something that i more or less like to listen to when i'm doing menial tasks like cleaning, i'm definitely now gonna be more cognizant of what content i specifically look for. i watched the cecil hotel docuseries this past weekend and i definitely agree it was overdramatized and while i think it's interesting to show how the internet reacted to the posting of the infamous elevator clip, i definitely feel like the docuseries is just going to rev up more interest in all the conspiracy theories that came out of that story. even my own mom thinks that there was something shady going on at the hotel when i talked to her about it. sometimes bad stuff happens, and all the "theories" about her death are just people trying to cope with the reality of how fragile human life can be sometimes where a freak accident like that can happen so quickly. plus the stuff about parasocial relationships? i'd never thought of it applying but you're totally right, i feel like it does! sorry this comment ended up SUPER LONG but when i find video essays in my recommended that have a lot of strong points i can't help but write my own essay in the comments oops. anyway i'm gonna subscribe and probably binge all your other content now

[@julphines]

I grew up watching crime shows with my mom but as I grew up, they started to make me paranoid. If depraved serial killers could be anywhere, or as the podcast says, I know one, how am I supposed to live normally? So I stopped watching crime shows (which were all cop shows incidentally) and I found I was able to walk down the street with only the female-typical amount of caution. I was in a really bad car wreck when I was young, which forced me to grapple with the fact that, yeah, shit happens. I could have died because some dude was driving too fast. It's scary. But telling yourself there are killers everywhere makes you paranoid and distrustful. And that's no way to live.

[@devonfarris6875]

I LOVE THIS. Thank you for saying all this. Just found your channel from Yhara Zayd and I love it all. Btw I spied the podcast "Criminal" in your list of true crime podcasts, but I do believe it stands out from the rest. It focuses on the victims and the injustice of the justice system. It's not the true crime porn like, ugh, "My Favorite Murder." I've actually learned from it lol.

[@ems1201]

Yeah, it's one of the few true crime podcasts I listen to, because she's very respectful and gives the victims a voice. I also like her more light-hearted episodes, like the one about Sealand.

[@supposedlymel]

the madeline mcann case is another example similar to elisa lam in the fact that it's SO sensationalised. everytime something small even happens regarding her the media blow it up and it's honestly disgusting. i do enjoy true crime, i'm a psychology major so a lot of the 'how' and 'why' intrigues me. what i don't do is go around spreading rumours or theories or harassing families or idolising killers. and that's what a lot of these overdramatised netflix docs do (tiger king is another example also).

[@mcsmaria28]

I really used to like True Crime, but the more I listened to it, the more depressed I felt and I felt icky listening to it. I can’t even watch/listen to a lot of crime stuff anymore, especially stuff involving children. If I consume “true crime” it’s Scam Goddess or Swindled or maybe a Crime in Sports. Small Town Murder is the only piece of “traditional” true crime I consume, but mostly because it’s funny and they’re talking more about the small towns and the weird characters around crimes. Crime in Sports, mostly it’s former athletes getting arrested for crimes like drug possession or some bullshit and it kinda makes you realize that those are really the types of “crime” that fuels the criminal justice pipeline and is really a huge waste of time and money

[@owo-ob3hz]

I really liked this video, you really summed up a lot of my thoughts on the topic! One bit of constructive criticism, though- for long and information dense videos like this, maybe consider adding chapters titles/section headings? Thanks anyway, though!

[@knt.i9139]

I think you could do a great video explaining how you research and prepare your video cuz i suck at essays so it's really fascinating for me how yours videos are well made and how you talk about point that i would never think about ( ps: plz excuse my english it's not my first language )

[@tashibalampkin8555]

Your English is well written in the comment.

[@mariashakhanina5664]

yes, your English is wonderful here! don't underestimate yourself buddy 😁💓

[@hobocode]

Thank you for talking about Dr Phil! He's WAY WORSE than someone like Jerry Springer. Because, at least Springer was open about how his show was exploitative, dramatic, and unrealistic. Dr Phil pretends to be peddling truth and reality! Yikes. Have you seen some of Bad Bhabie's interviews where she discusses her experience on the show? It's soooooooo good. Stuff I've been screaming at the TV for years and finally someone is saying it.

[@the-ice-castle]

that's a great video! to be honest, i always struggled to find an appropriate answer to why true crime is so popular. part of me thinks there is value to sharing the full stories of the victims, as a way to not let them be forgotten, but a bigger part of me also knows for sure that this is rarely done in a respectful way, so their suffering ends up being treated as a cruel spectacle, callously dissected for an apathetic audience that struggles to see these people as real humans who went through real pain. basically, i think true crime is either plain and simple disrespectful morbid curiosity, or, when the victims' stories are front and center as they should be, extremely depressing and hard to sit through - so either way, not exactly the type of content that should be so casually watched or narrated by someone while they're simultaneously commenting on how cute their makeup is 🤷‍♂️

[@xvisionproductions]

Really liked this video. There are so many well-constructed pieces of arguments it actually made me wonder whether to continue watching some True Crime documentaries whenever they are recommended to me. Keep up the good work

[@flamejob4260]

came from tumblr and this video was fantastic - you've got a new fan 💗. the women on my favorite murder have always made me so uncomfortable in a way that i couldn't name. someone who was actually included in the video, stephanie harlowe, has a very respectful way of covering true crime focused on the victims, even if i do get the sense that she has sometimes parasocial relationships with the cases due to her empathy. true crime has been far too marketable - the recent richard ramirez doc on netflix has very similar problems to the one discussed in this video

[@reyl6152]

You hit the nail on the head and spoke about all my own issues with true crime, great video as always!

[@morganschneider191]

hi mandeep--I'm in a true crime journalism class right now (we're just reading + discussing three books of the genre) and I've been meaning to watch this video forever. A couple people in my class were complaining about the fictionalized, peaceful ending scene of In Cold Blood, and while I think its appropriate to dunk on Capote for making something up, I do think its necessary to have the last scene in the book talk about the victims + those close to them, as it reminds the audience who the focus should be on in this type of literature. Thank you for this video + the very long section dunking on Ted Bundy.

[@koladarling3872]

Aishyo sent me here. Look when you said "I have eyes" I had to subscribe because yes I too have eyes and handsome and charming man where???? 😂

[@madiswan6792]

I ALWAYS go back to this video when I'm prepping to edit my true crime videos. It is sooo well done and I try to keep the criticisms front of mind as I edit. It is sooo important to have a different perspective on the True Crime genre because it is such a growing community here on KZbin. I just wish the stories people choose to discuss where more diverse

[@froginatub]

"Disclaimer: please don't kill us"

[@Carbsandacat]

I think you make a really good point about how unhealthy and weird paradoxical relationships are within the context of true crime. There’s a documentary series about the golden state killer that focuses on Michelle McNamara’s fixation “with the case.” It definitely feels like an intense parasocial relationship between her and the serial killer and is just an escape from her mental health struggles. It was a truly sad situation and there wasn’t anything cool or interesting about her fixation, especially given the harm it caused to herself and her family.

[@JP__T]

i'm only a few minutes in, but i love the observation of a parasocial relationship occurring outside celebrities / with this case and lam!! already subscribed, great job on this vid!!

[@cherrybepsi]

thank you! 🥰💖

[@youm_tube]

this video was really really interesting and it made me realize why true crime content made me so uncomfortable :// the jack ripper case and the sensationalism surrounding it can definitely be linked to the lack of empathy towards the victims who were all sex workers (if I remember correctly)

[@cherrybepsi]

Yes for sure! Not to plug my own vid but I do go (a little bit) more into Jack the Ripper and his victims in my gaslighting video 🥰💞

[@MrLTLB]

I just found your channel by looking up videos talking about 'Jennifer's Body' and I absolutely enjoyed your video and your take on the movie. Just like I truly enjoyed this Video and you helped me realize things I had never thought of before when I was researching this whole fascination and awe that some ppl have about Serial Killers like Ted Bundy. Thank You and Im glad I found your channel 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽 Stay Blessed!

[@laurad1542]

Very informative and well researched. Thanks for highlighting this topic, it seems to be a trend in true crime to talk about murderers as if they were characters rather than real people who caused a lot of real harm. I've never had an interest in My Favourite Murder but that clip was pretty repulsive.

[@FaiaHalo]

Your videos are INCREDIBLY valuable. I want to thank you so much. Much love from Latin America!

[@lilyevans7597]

Very illuminating perspective and fascinating research! Thanks for sharing your perspective/hard work/very un-Bundy-like charm

[@cherrybepsi]

thank you 😌💖

[@aaronpoole5531]

A couple years ago I got a little wrapped up in true crime documentaries like Making a Murderer and Evil Genius. Perhaps it tickled that part of me that was curious but what I found was that they focused on the perpetrators and usually had a narrative that made you firmly believe one thing, then swap it for another more believable conclusion in the next, and so on for another 5 episodes. It made me uncomfortable at the time, and I realise now how unsympathetic they are to victims and their families... the podcast clip was painful. Sure, dark jokes exist and can be funny to brace a difficult to talk about topic but it sounded like they were talking about fiction.

[@addieholder5082]

the section dunking on TB was so cathartic, especially since my mom was a Chi Omega a few years after the horrific murders were committed. anyone who glamorizes TB or ANY murderers loses my respect

[@tlowery2074]

Only a bit into the video but I basically think EVERY docu series should have just been a damn movie. They always draw everything out in episodes and it makes it boring and painful to get through.

[@stickyribs6494]

yiik the game is another example of gross parasocial relationships and projection. the main love interest is based on lam, and her disappearance in an elevator is the crux of the story. there's a part in the game where the protagonist watches footage of the lam character doing the same actions as lam did in the elevator footage.

[@cherrybepsi]

oh yikesss

[@madi5286]

Ohhhh no. Her family should sue thats 🤢

[@floral8826]

There was also the fact the dev who was behind the game said elisa lam's death and suffering was influencial for the creation of the game

[@juliansasha6225]

You brought of a LOT of points that were also taught to me in my criminology course, which was really nice to hear

[@irishcajun85]

Thank you for this 🙏🏻 you summed up perfectly my issues with true crime ‘fans’, especially those that directly stan a specific killer. I watch Forensic Files and similar shows, but it’s for the knowledge of forensic advancements and detective work.

[@kennykat4989]

I grew up with true crime stuff by my grandmother but lately they have turned from a critical study of a case to this overdramatized thing. Its so strange.

[@cherrybepsi]

It really is lmao I just saw that SNL dropped a whole skit about women and true crime shows, which is how you know something has been truly beaten into the ground

[@firebreathingllama]

I'm a huge fan of how you discuss the bizarre amount of editorializing in "True Crime" stories to narrative craft a more interesting story 👍

[@milendop2769]

Really good video! U really shined a light at a lot of things i didnt think about. As somebody who enjoys true crime i have some reflecting to do.

[@mei_mariedawn9362]

I’ve never really been into true crime stuff (though I have enjoyed buzzfeed unsolved in the past) and I think part of my disconnect with the content was the glorification of the perpetrator. I’d never really considered how popular media has done that just thinking it was the occasional weird fandom teen or incel guys glorifying serial killers but it makes sense that they might fall into that when the media they are consuming is so explicit in its praise or normalization.

[@gothicjinx101]

This whole video is appreciated but the dunking on ted bundy section was genuinely cathartic. Thank you so so much

[@madisonoberg4513]

woah, that call out about reading hard potter and declaring the green house hit so hard it woke me up out of a near sleep. Jesus have I Never had a unique experience

[@llamalianna]

This is such an important, eye-opening video. Thank you for posting!

[@cherrybepsi]

Thank you for watching! 💕

[@karafin9796]

The mary osmer interview sounds like something written by Rita Skeeter

[@LooneyMoon]

I was about to comment about the flashing lights warning when I saw your pinned comment! As a fix I'd recommend putting the timestamp in the video title or description. Obviously annotations would have been easier but youtube decided those were pointless I guess. Also, I just wanted to say that this was a really great video. I've often been bothered by how voyeuristic and self-indulgent true crime can be and I thought this was a really good look into examples of how retellings can distort actual events. I'd never thought about the importance of "attention from an authoritative community member" in the tellings of these stories but it makes a lot of sense. And as usual you made me laugh out loud multiple times. Honestly, how could anyone find Ted Bundy attractive?

[@cherrybepsi]

Thank you 🥺💖

[@Sarcasmhime]

The bit about the parasocial 'sleuths' reminds me of how much I hated the Miller storyline in The Expanse. The rest of the show is amazing, but the white male detective investigating the disappearance of an Asian woman and, through his investigation, deciding that he now understands her completely, to the point of essentially falling in love with her, and then having that REWARDED, made me want to barf.

[@tanithlow8435]

Thank you so much for this detailled analysis!

[@Alice-fr5hl]

For anyone who does like true crime, but agrees with the points in this video, the Netflix doc The Keepers is pretty good. I haven’t watched it in a few years but from what I remember, its almost exclusively told from the perspectives of the victims and IMO doesn’t grossly handle its sensitive content

[@tophadvocate4693]

omg u really snapped with this one

[@cherrybepsi]

thank you 😌

[@radioban]

I'm glad I took time to watch this one.

[@cherrybepsi]

me too

[@njcapone]

the section on TB... THANK YOU been yelling this to myself forever that man has average intelligence at best

[@CatHasOpinions734]

So, I made my first foray into true crime pretty recently, for the same reasons you described. I haven't listened to my favorite murder (I think I listened to half an episode but it just didn't grab me), it sounds a bit insufferable and I could easily imagine it and a lot of other true crime things boiling down to copaganda. That said, one of the reasons I checked it out was because a black woman I follow (I think it was Princess Weekes but I'm not positive) mentioned it as a way that basic white women were starting to grasp the flaws in law enforcement. The only one I listen to regularly is the podcast Let's Go to Court, and it has frequent moments where there's humor (or sadness, and often both) around law enforcement failing in various obvious ways. I kind of rolled my eyes at true crime for most of my life, judging it as being kind of trashy/tabloid-y, but lately I've been wondering if that was just me being kind of a snob, or de-valuing it because, well, I'm white, and was raised to de-value anything that didn't lionize the police. That last one obviously doesn't make sense when we're talking about true crime media that DOES lionize the cops, and I'm sure plenty of them do and that's a problem, but I wonder if there's a space for true crime media that takes a more honest look at law enforcement to do some real good in helping to undo copaganda (while obviously being respectful to victims, their families, and anyone falsely accused or convicted).

[@marytorres3091]

Before the video even finished I subscribed n liked holy shit you have talent. Also I think for me a lot of the appeal of true crime is more or less background noise

[@Tkw-vo4md]

i used to listen to mfm whilst doing schoolwork and all it did was make my mental health worse, the way they talk about crimes and the victims is horrendous

[@cherrybepsi]

Yeah and just hearing about all those atrocities really weighs on you :/

[@ez3408]

Ironically, I got like three true crime show ads while watching this video.

[@svandergaast1]

I have dabbled in true crime from time to time. Listening to serial killer biographies and such but if I watch it for too long I get anxious and fearful. I have an interest in the psychological aspect. I just want to understand why they do it.

[@juliak5149]

I read more than watch, and feel similar things about the genre of "fun" murder mysteries. Where a grandma needs to find out who did it and it is a nice and easily consumable summer literature. Especially the way they are marketed seems off to me

[@yurtcobain3337]

ive never really been interested in true crime other than bfu but you've brought up some really good points here!! honestly the whole obsession with hearing abt the "mind of killers" and how they murdered their victims seems sort of disrespectful to the victims n their grieving family imo.. like they were a real person with a life n its kind of fuckedup to me 2 constantly dissect n speculate on the circumstances of their deaths lol

[@Emma-ou6jq]

1:24 hearing that while putting together a HP Lego set 👀

[@offbeet640]

Great video w soo many good points. I think also that for white women in particular, true crime is this fantasy intersection where they play potential hero who solves some mystery through their exceptional skill, and also perpetual "first choice" victim of some unknown stranger. I think this same exact intersection is why Law and Order SVU has run on so godforsakenly long; because the central character is both An Exceptional Cop but is continually made victim.

[@misswilde3054]

I went to subscribe to your channel after this video but turns out I already did from a previous one ❤️