The Problem With Wolfgang

My attempt to explain why I think Wolfgang isn't as fun as other characters, and what can be done to fix that.

[@xray8012]

Every character besides wolfgang has to cost something to gain damage, wanda becomes a glass cannon in order to make the most out of damage, warly has to farm 1 Specific Crop, grind rng for volt goat horn, and get honey for damage with Three different character specific items

[@Sustenance_]

and every character besides wolfgang also has uses besides damage, wanda tps across the map and warly makes you immune to temperature and can buff other players. Wolfgang is specialized in damage and not much else which may make him boring, but not op

[@balkansenjoyer]

@@Sustenance_ a great way to not make him op OR boring would be to emphasize his weight carrying and resource gathering abilities and intensify the hunger and sanity drain downsides for a more fun cooperative playstyle. Because a strong character with no downsides does not fit into he game, is not rewarding nor fun to play or play with.

[@Vetadota]

Wigfrid?

[@Vetadota]

Also wolfgang also gives hunger and having the risk of shrinking middle of the fight and die ing

[@Taxolia]

Tbh Wanda is hardly a glass Cannon due to that she can wear night armor without sanity drain and can have rechargeable pierogis

[@santiagovallejo4518]

for me wolfang always need some kind of change to his fear, maybe his damage increases while you fight without getting hit, if wolfgang fights without being hit it would generate bravery for feeling that he can do it and that would give him strength, but if you get hit the bravery bar will decrease by starting to be afraid like this causing you to lose damage, therefore you would start each fight with normal damage and as you dodge you gain damage

[@michajaworowicz8923]

As a Wolfgang player, who's been playing him since the singleplayer DS, I've realised how bland he feels in his current state. Preparing for bosses is now so easy that at some point on my main world I stopped caring about them and just started building a megabase surrounded with water trees, because damn, I really love how wolfgang moves so fast while carrying heavy objects. I can agree that he feels boring an unfun to play in terms of fighting/rushing bosses, but I really enjoy how he's got these little changes that make him gather resources more quickly and make cool decorations to the base with statues/water trees.

[@AnglAfro]

So you’re saying that it’s easier now to get ready for a boss fight than just eating a single dish?

[@horhellodog1920]

@@AnglAfro It is, mightiness wasn't a flat rate so you'd often be at 1.8x damage or lower which against a raid boss is a big difference to 2x damage. You'd have to constantly manage hunger by eating honey or berries or carrots to maintain mightiness, and if you don't make time for that you will be stunned with the animation of returning to normal. If you are diligent or in a more relaxed boss fight, this is not super difficult to manage, however it is much more complex than how Wolfgang now gets mightiness from doing almost any action, including fighting, making it self sustaining.

[@horhellodog1920]

@Jack Jones Any player with decent skills would not care about a speedboost, it doesn't even allow you to get more hits on most bosses, and it is terrible for exploring. Wolfgang actually had a downside back then which was that if you didn't play him well he would be slower than wilson because of how much he has to eat. And whether his mechanics were annoying or not doesn't change that they were more complex.

[@horhellodog1920]

@Jack Jones Tanking is much better than kiting for the majority of shadow pieces, and you can use a boat for the cheapest tanking method that doesn't requite a speedboost. It is also often under 25% most of the time. For travel it is terrible and a good player will not need the speedboost for almost any boss fight and it will not even make bosses easier except for like fuelweaver because you can dodge cage easier.

[@smaragdchaos]

@@horhellodog1920 25% travel speed was massive for speedrunning bee queen and enraged klaus

[@afr-yw6bk]

I feel like they forgot his original downside. Being scared of mobs. I feel like all his perks can remain if you have sufficient,balanced and interesting cost to them. Something like character specific sanity monsters for him that can spawn even when his sanity is full. Defeating them will increase his strength(bravery) His whole thing can be that he is strong but only shows it in really dangerous situations (fighting with his inner demons in more literal sense haha) Defeating unique new shadow mobs to get him to full strength, and than either keeping his hunger( bringing back different character combos ) and/or sanity close to maximum to slow down falling of his bravery/mighty meter. I don't know if it would tie with lore,but having shadow monsters which are literally tied to character's sanity would be unique and interesting downside.

[@thecwd8919]

Very neat idea

[@manboy4720]

that's actually a pretty neat idea. every character is representative of different playstyles and mechanics, but they've never messed with the shadow monsters themselves. also funny yellow utopia colour.

[@alangreene5776]

I loved the old Wolfgang. He would reward you for eating well and punish you when starving. If i wanted to get mighty by working out i would hit the gym irl lmao

[@fafdaafggh9548]

Yea I hope irl we can get buffed by eating not by hitting the gym HAHAHAHA

[@alexthewrecker4666]

​@@fafdaafggh9548society if true 🏦💲🤑🧠🥑🥑

[@ciranopunalesvigliarolo3788]

why? it's so easy getting food in this game (maybe not in hamlet), he still was a stronger wilson back then, now he's just an even stronger wilson.

[@quique3676]

the only character treats the piggyback as a complete upgrade to the backback? laughs in having a tamed beefalo

[@carlosleite7011]

It's strange that Wolfgang don't drain more hunger when in mighty form, it always remains at 1x modifier. His hunger modifier should be 2x on mighty form, 1x on his medium form and 0.5x on wimpy form, this will bring some balance and sense of acomplishment.

[@tacogodboomdogg]

The devs don't want Wolfgang eating all the food.

[@fo0liner1985]

problem i see with this change is, it makes him less accessible for newer players.. and just as easy for experienced ones..

[@carlosleite7011]

@@tacogodboomdogg As i said, Wolfgang at normal form, with 25-75 mightiness will have 1x hunger modifer. There's no problem, unless the player is brainless, he would have the notion that he would be more hungry after playing with the character for a while. Other thing, he draining more hunger will sinergize with Wormwood and Wickerbottom. And if you have hnger problems at this game, even on multiplayer, congratulations, you are a noob.

[@carlosleite7011]

@@fo0liner1985 so every character should be accessible for new players? this doesn't even make sense, especially for an OP character like Wolfgang, who has no effort to get all the power he has. New players shouldn't even play with other characters, they should play Wilson, survive for 100 days with him to at least have a base and not be dependent on some perk of the character who played and create quirks.

[@fo0liner1985]

@@carlosleite7011 i never said that every character should be accessible to new players. i said more hunger drain makes him only harder for new players and that he is a great character for new players to try solo boss fights for the first time.

[@imtanooki6590]

I would love if they could give a new mechanic to the gym, like imagine what they did with wanda, you start with a gym that is just rocks and potato, and only helps you become a lil muscular, or normal, but then you progresss and make a marble one, now you are better, but still not best, and like a ruin thulecite gym, that helps you be even stronger, so the damage multiplier will be from doing stuff, they could even make some late game gym with the new lunar and shadow items

[@kliveran]

it would be good actually like a cap for every gym tool so mighty form is only available with expensive materials, stone just goes at 50% gold up to 80% marble to 100% but it make you slower when walking normal or wimpy and gembell to 100% faster and no slow this actually will add more value to the gym for reaching 100% mightiness

[@imtanooki6590]

@@kliveran but to be better it would be like if you dont do excersise in a couple days it loses points, also we need more potato crafting gym things

[@smaragdchaos]

Nah, screw the gym and the dumbbells. They need to focus on something gameplay related than introduce nonsensical features like that that the other characters can't even benefit from

[@supersnizelz]

@@smaragdchaos for example???

[@zaptrap4802]

When klei made Wolfgang’s mightiness decrease when taking damage in that one beta branch, i was interested in that new dynamic, and really wanted to see it be fleshed out. But then when players started criticizing it, instead of klei rebalancing it, they simply threw that idea out the window and made wolfgang the boring, uninteresting character he is now. I hope klei revisits that idea again, or atleast find a way to spice his ability up.

[@connorcornwall1404]

​​@@jackjones4824bh,make it lose 1-3 mightiness point(20 damage for 1,50 damage for 2 and 80+ for 3)

[@leonidascassarino3054]

now wanda works kinda like that

[@dljb7463]

THEY REMOVED IT??? IVE BEEN WORYING ABOUT A NON EXSITENT DOWNSIDE THIS WHOLE TIME???

[@antynomity]

Forums at work is what I call that.

[@rat2316]

​@@antynomityor klei giving up on fixing game balance

[@ericforman1976]

Wolfgang had the worst rework in my opinion. It's a shame the developers didn't try to make him more team focused. It would've been cool if all the other characters could use his workout stations for a little temporary damage boost or something.

[@Joojinho]

We need rework 2.0!

[@watervssodies]

Idk about that. I like that Wigfrid is more of a team-focused fighter while Wolfgang is a one-man wrecking crew with less utility. They both have that niche. (That being said current wolfgang still sucks)

[@missingtexture1996]

I had an idea i might try to flesh out on a mod. Trying to readd the hunger aspect of Wolfgang, by adding "dieting". The mightyness meter would still exist, but the rate at which it decreases is afected by his diet. Foods are now separated into food groups, providing the "nutrients" he needs to stay mighty. Foods are separated into meats, fishs, veggies, fruits, eggs and sweets. Essentially, he can stay mighty for short periods of time unless he maintains a balanced diet (he should eat from every food group, except sweets, to maintain his mightyness) with a full balanced diet, his mightyness doesn't decrease. In this concept, the gym and dumbbells are meant to raise mightyness, while dieting is for maintaining it.

[@alinashirokaya3954]

At times of Wolfgang rework there was a lot of interesting ideas, both for downsides and for upsides tied to team play. From unique monsters for insanity, different insanity tresholds and loosing mightyness on overeating to being able to block damage in cliff area for allies (taking their damage yourself), being able to push to some extent even bosses with mighty hits (could be useful to push away FW from woven shadows, for example) and having insanity aura susceptibility multiplier ranging from 2x to 0.5x (much more noticeble than current 1.1x-1.25x) depending on combat-capable allies present (including gestalts but excluding critters, for example). For non-combat (or semi-useful in combat) perks there were ideas of throwing away allies with distance dependant on their current speed multipliers (one can argue that it's goofy idea, but not more than beard storage that Wilson got in the end). Klei decided to stick with simple and boring approach, not even trying to consider and polish someone else's ideas they gave Klei for free while having no good ideas themselves as long as they were even a bit less straighforward than stat boost (faster working is actually community suggestion implemented, same for no speed penalty from statues, marble suits and piggybacks). That is what happens when people loose both connection with their game (don't play it) and passion for improving it.

[@TheVichugo02]

I play with a friend that mains Wolfgang, and this video helped me understand why I have been feeling bored lately. Sure, it's fun seeing him melt bosses with spicy jelly, but he essentialy eliminates any sense of danger from mobs, and makes the experience boring.

[@SlotMachineGun777.]

This is why i play Wigfrid. She has her own unique downsides (low max hunger, only eating meat) but very good combat versatility and survival, without being overpowered as all hell with little to no effort.

[@single-player]

I stopped playing Wolfgang, as the reasonable way of using Wolfgang in 90% cases (when not fighting) is leaving him at wimpy state. And I don't like how he looks in that state.

[@thesupreme2]

I main Wolfgang and am rather new to the game. I also play alone. IMO, the raid bosses which are necessary to enchance equipment, have way too much health. That is why I like playing Wolfgang, it makes the annoyingly long fights more fun for me. If you disagree, I can see your POV. Yeah he is pretty easy

[@Mark-wr8td]

yeah playing solo is hard, since everything in the game has a group of players worth of health. they should make a setting that makes it easier for solo players like lowering healthpools

[@nilayzaveri468]

I use a mod that scales the health according to the number of players on the server. Can't be expected to play a game balanced for 6 players solo

[@s1r_pootis]

I Have started to Play wolfgang recently, and To be completely honest, every point in the vid is accurate, so to balance this icon of speedrunning ive got a few ideas to balance him out ( this might never get in the game hence keyword *idea* ) 1# - Refrer to the lore. According to his refresh video, he's scared of basically everything. He gave his gag of "lifting" an elephant, over a mouse. this really easily translates to a bigger sanity drain, but i dont feel like klei has done enough to make it an issue. So to actually make it an issue, on top of the bigger sanity drain, make his ego as fragile as webber's (in other words 100 max sanity or any effect that makes his effective max sanity 100) on top of an insanity aura just for him, triggering when fighting *any* monster. Even the ones without sanity drain. However, all of this is still not enough. Experienced players are familiar with fighting nightmares, making sanity almost a non-issue. To fix this, spawn 1-2 additional Nightmares, with higher probabilty of them being terrorbeaks, that drop no nightmare fuel, and give no sanity reward when defeated, making insanity an actual issue if 3 terrorbeaks spawn, and giving wolfgang an actual downside If he goes insane (which he most likely will with his quick to drain sanity and new low maximum). As a result, he will have to fight more nightmares, for less rewards, or force him on time out to restore his sanity (which in hindsight, a better idea might be to keep his max sanity of 200, and double all insanity auras of all kinds, making it harder to go out of low sanity by restoring it via things like cooked cactus flesh or crockpot dishes) 2# - Training downtime I get the idea of the whole lifting weights thing, but the process being incredibly fast doesnt help much... So to balance it i would half (or a third of) the speed at which he gains mightiness from everything and keep the loss rates the same. Making the gym's 22x hunger penalty (with boss statues which you can probably get very early on from either Klaus, dragonfly, or deerclops) come into effect, forcing wolfgang to eat more, and to add a bit more, apply the hunger drain to the dumbbells, though of course not as big as the gym's. While this isnt as big as the last one, considering the game's title is misleading and keeping yourself fed 9 times out of 10 is as easy as collecting twigs off a sapling. Everyone knows how to do it and certainly can do it, except for the fresh install who desont know where their space bar is. Pairing this with the previous or next idea might be better than leaving this one on its own. 3# - make training equipment expensive and break faster. Making dumbbells and the gym more expensive to use and faster to break means getting mighty in the first place is going to be costly. Lets say the cost increase is triple (double might not be enough). A marbell will now cost a whopping 12 marble, which when it is faster to break, will be a much heavier strain on that resource. And dont think the gym is safe either, Increase the hunger drain on it and suddenly its expensive as all heck. Adding these three to Wolfgang might not even be enough in my eyes, trading double damage straight and continuing to gain mightiness during combat for some hunger is a really worthy trade, so my initial idea was to make this trade of sorts, more balanced, but i dont know whether my ideas are balanced enough for the game's design... Id like to hear what ideas you have.

[@tacogodboomdogg]

In my opinion a static 34 damage boost when mighty would be better than all versions we got so far. Not as powerful but comes in handy when holding walking canes and lanterns. Wolfgang should also not gain sanity from prototyping new equipment.

[@supersnizelz]

that's an interesting change but what's the idea behind this change?

[@caoinhnamkhanh2795]

Hard disagree with the old wolfgang thing. 'Managing hunger is not hard', then you make it the main point why hes better pre rework. Its bad design, ofc its best design solo but in a team it just incentivises taking ingredients from the team. The 'damage lowers with hunger' is not good game design... it wouldnt be change much if he just got a straight z2 dmg before... actually it would, since he wouldnt be incentivised to steal ingredients and just eat a meatball before hes lower, its just a bad mechanic, you just eat a thing to stay x2 when. Not to say new wolfgang is better in design, but saying the old one is much better is just wrong, It was just food=dmg. Instead of the dumb 25% speedboost you get a no penalty to speedpenalty items, thats a nerf. The old speedboost was just dumb, why should he get it from just eating? In general he should just get completely changed. But klei knows the community wont like it so they made him easier.

[@joaco.]

did you watch the whole video? he said the old speedboost was a bad design too, the whole point of this video is to show how braindead is wolfgang

[@POOH_LY]

He is not saying that the new Wolfgang is 'stronger' than pre-reworked version. His point is that the old Wolfgang was more interesting than the new one. (Still a boring character, but more intetesting than what we have now.)

[@achaosinsurgencyno-cat4109]

Now I wanna hear your thoughts on Webber!

[@redandblue1013]

Yea he sucks. I think they kind of screwed themselves once they decided on the mightiness direction. It’s either “make it easier so players don’t have to stand still all the time” or “make it harder so wolfgang is less OP but feels rubbish to use”

[@joaco.]

I used to main wolfgang before rework, but then switched to only play wigfrid since her rework because shes so team-friendly right now. Sometimes i feel tempted to switch wolfgang just to literally cheese bosses with its damage but no, i refrain from it.

[@thedarkspy5761]

Wigfrid is also broken lmao

[@peppersteak5829]

wigfrid is more braindead than wolfgang lol

[@verestoyjanos5013]

I am going to be controvertial, but I do think that Wolfgang was made like this on purpose. You see, Don't Starve Together was balanced around multiplayer, so singleplayer is really hard. This means that It's much harder to learn for new players. That's where Wolfgang comes in. A tutorial character that makes the game easier to play in solo, and that's what makes me think that Wilson isn't the starting character, Wolfgang is. We need Wolfgang to help people learn about dealing with character perks amd introduce them to combat, while making harvesting resources easier. So people, please stop saying that Wilson is the starting character. Wolfgang is.

[@davidjoseph5224]

Underrated point

[@ludgerkres.1437]

My partner actually liked his rework but then realized that other characters are just more fun to play.

[@Ryusuta]

Whenever I see someone picking Wolfgang, I pretty much just assume they want to boss rush and nothing else. Great if that is the only way you enjoy the game (and there's nothing wrong with that), but I find it to be such a dull experience. I admit I kinda feel the same way about using Ornery Beefalo, but as you said, at least that takes a time and resource investment.

[@Seigseiggy]

feed wolfgang voltgoatjelly and spicy dish = tasty damage Spam Wes + lights out, so you will not feel bored and rush toadstool on day 3

[@Inducedharp]

Even if it wouldn't have made him more interesting to actually get mighty I wish some mechanic was made like him losing mighty ness when hit or smth.

[@michajaworowicz8923]

It was actually a thing when devs released the first beta with the wolfgang's refresh, but the amount of mightiness loss was so big that you would go from 100 to 70 mightiness after taking 1 hit from ancient guardian (100 damage). But for some reason, the devs decided to remove this mechanic instead of lowering the mightiness loss which I don't understand, because it was way more interesting and required the player to kite more instead of standing still and pressing F.

[@zaptrap4802]

@@michajaworowicz8923 i even made a suggestion on the forums that they should: 1: make the mightiness loss not be able to go below 70, 2: remove the animation that he goes through on state change. and yeah the loss would also be generally reduced from what was in the beta

[@AN-rz7bs]

​@@michajaworowicz8923do you loose muscle when someone hits you? No. Then why would Wolfgang loose it?

[@The_Dragon_Tiamat]

I agree somewhat, I really don't like his old version mostly because if you wanted to be optimal you needed to keep your hunger at the max otherwise you weren't dealing as much damage as you could be doing. I know food is plentiful in the game but I still don't like eating food unless I maximize the value out of it. He really does need a downside or a new way to get mighty though. Maybe instead of working out Wolfgang would need to infuse nightmare fuel into his muscles which enhances his abilities for a time. However as a downside after 4 mins of shadow infused muscles your max health decreases which incentivizes making booster shots. idk what would really work for Wolfgang but at the very least when I play him currently I don't feel like I'm wasting food.

[@muttonsword]

I love playing Warly even with his downsides. Because when he pops off, he goes OFF! Having an entire team dishing out shitloads of damage with spicy volt goat chaud froid is the most rewarding thing for Warly

[@viniciusgoulart5077]

I once had a very weird idea in how to rework Wolfgang in order to bring him closer to his older self while making him balanced: you know how Wolfgang's model (especially his head) gets much bigger the mightier he gets? I know this sounds really REALLY stupid, but bear with me: What if when he gets mighty he gets so big he's unable to swap items in his head and body slots, because they got too big to fit on him? (he may still wear what he had eqquiped before getting mightier. He just can't swap for new stuff when the old break / when he wants to equip a new item) I also believe having this disadvantage would justify Wolfgang getting back his og hunger=mightiness (screw the mightiness meter) and even his speed boost That's how I think it should be balanced: Wimpy form: can freely swap items in his head slot and body slot (like any normal character... After all he hasn't gotten bigger yet). 1.5x hunger drain, 0.75x damage, no speed boost *The best all-round form for the early game. Though its hunger and damage penalty makes him much worse than a regular wilson Strong form: Can't swap his head slot (it's too big for that now) but can still swap his body slot. 3x hunger drain, 1.5x damage (depends on current hunger, like og wolfgang), no speed boost *By properly managing your hunger (like you do for og Wolfgang) and sacrificing control over your head slot, you can deal more damage than a Wilson. Though since this form lacks a speed boost, it should only be used for combat Mighty form: Can't swap his head slot and can't swap items in his body slot (whenever Wolfgang reached mighty form, his animation showed his shirt being ripped. So even his body gets big). 3x hunger drain, 2x damage (depends on the current hunger), 25% speed boost *The best form for Wolfgang. As long as you are able to properly manage your hunger and sacrifice control over your head and body slots, you get to deal 2x damage AND get the speed boost. Best for experienced players who can maintain his 3x hunger indefinetely Just one more thing. To wrap things up, it's worth remembering the reason why Klei got rid of the hunger=mightyness system: new players eating all the food To discourage that, entering a stronger form while wearing something on your slots could deal damage to Wolfgang (since wearing tiny clothes while your body gets much bigger would hurt a lot) If a new player eats a lot of food and suddenly takes a lot of damage, said player will remember not to eat that much food again (since they often have trouble with healing). An experienced player, who knows better than to waste food, would also know how to heal and thus would easily circunvent this drawback. This should make it so only experienced players would play Wolfgang, which would make wasting food a non issue Despite how weird this whole concept is, I believe it would be a way to bring old Wolfgang back while also making him more balanced AND stop beginners from wasting food as him

[@supersnizelz]

tbh that sounds like a good idea but overkill wolfgang would probably have enough penalty getting damaged from a headslot item the main problem would be conveying this information to the player accurately this sort of thing doesn't happen irl so just like wigfrid you'd need an animation that conveys it...somehow i dont know how that animation would look

[@smokeweebs8700]

It's funny you mention Wigfrid as a very fun character even though she's considered by many the most "boring" and easiest character by far. She is the safest character to play as she can basically ignore the sanity mechanic, and healing with her is trivial, she also has a permanent attack and defense buff at all times and gets access to strong and easy to craft weapons which make the early game a complete joke. Managing Wolfgangs mightyness while simple, is still tedious and requires some foresight, getting stunlocked to death is always possible if you aren't paying proper attention to his meter. I honestly enjoy simple characters that don't require crazy setups to get going, and that's what these characters excel at.

[@zib7178]

not sure when WG’s rework was made, but his skill tree has an ability that makes him 10% faster while neutral. which means you don’t even need to maintain mightiness. Unless you go wimpy, which you almost never will.

[@k0nar1k55]

I agree that wolfgang is boring and could use a change to make him not just a tankier 2x dmg wilson with a higher hunger drain but as someone who started playing the game as mainly rework wolfgang (before they added the thulicite bell and passive mightness through actions) and current warly. I actually found both wendy and wanda too easy and boring in comparrison. Wolfgang has the issue where he really has no downsides now outside of the potential poorly timed transformation animations and thats it. Warly is an example of a character with alot of potential that only really needs a few tweaks. His repeat food penality only really comes into play when you need to quickly heal/ increase sanity and that's it assuming you are able to juggle meaty stews every few days. The biggest issue is the fact that he doesn't gain more benefit from his recipes than any other player making him better in teams or as a swap to character. Especially since getting horns and excess meat isn't hard considering you can easily set up an afk volt goat farm with a couple of walls and and an anememy. He's more fun to play for me than the other characters mentioned due to he changes the way I approach the game. He's the only character I bother with bee boxes with during a standard boss run for both the jelly and pollutice. Both wendy and wanda fall into the same issue for me that wolfgang does. I never had trouble with wanda's age since I'd always use shadow armor or thulicite armor for bosses to where you can get hit a decent amount without any real risk or danger of dying (especially if you have two ageless watches). That with the range her alarming clock gives, assuming you have a cane you shouldn't have much trouble with general combat or bosses really unless you get swarmed or early ruins rushing. Once wanda get's set up it's almost easier than wolfgang since her weapon will never break and it's easy to stack up on fuel and she can eat pretty much anything without downsides due to her agless watches. I've never needed more than two for the most part. She doesn't really need anything but decent armor and her watch. Especially with nightmare werepig being a thing. The obsidian chest piece with the eye of terror allows her to save shadow armor exclusivly for sitations where she's going to get hit alot and allows her to never really have to worry about running out of armor or getting caught naked as she can take alot of hits from most mobs with those two on without dying. When not fighting bosses there never a reason to stay old so you can just carry some red shrooms to quickly turn old and with the agless watches as she can reduce her age by 16 every 2 minutes which I believe can get a nearly dead wanda down to just before or into middle age. With armor She losses very little time if your not just face tanking with football helms. Wendy I've played the least and for me she is the biggest offender as to being boring to play as I've never found myself really in a situation where I wouldn't already have abby out and low tier groups of mobs are a joke due to abigals aoe damage. I've never bother to use the potion that makes abby do the same dmg as night or gone out of my way to only fight bosses during night since the dmg bonus she gains while attacking the same target makes wendy to me just wilson with a summon. She to me doesn't have a noticable downside as I find myself keeping abby out far more than when I need to put her away.

[@Crimpleyy]

Wanda is definitely overpowered, but I think she's definitely more entertaining because some of her mechanics ( like the backstep watch ) are at least somewhat entertaining.

[@k0nar1k55]

@@Crimpleyy Wanda is definitely more fun to play for me compared to Wolfgang and Wendy but that's mainly because of not needing crockpots and being able to teleport. if she just had the personal weapon and the age mechanic she'd be just as boring as wolf despite still being strong

[@mikemaxwell3005]

A cheap way to get steel wool is through the year of bunnymen event just use deconstruction staff on steel wool pillows from the bunnies.

[@wigglerlesbian]

I wish they reverted him

[@aidansmith6076]

i always figured the incentive of the mighty meter was to prevent instant might transformation with things like meaty stew. I'm a wolfgang main and I hate sitting in place doing absolutely nothing to gain my double damage, but being able to access your double damage with just 2 meaty stews AT MOST was kinda op. however now the fact that once he's achieved max mightyness, he will remain that way until the fight is over is op. Personally think mightyness should work against him, not for him. Fighting, mining, and chopping should all "exhaust" wolfgang causing him to revert back to normal form. This could also have a mechanic that makes him gain mightyness slower when he's "exhausted." So your free damage is at least limited via a time window. Just some idea's, would love to hear some feedback.

[@aidansmith6076]

read this over one more time and wanted to emphasize that wolfgang would only become exhaused if he were to do any of these things while mighty.

[@kliveran]

it was so many kids crying that they didn't like the new wolfgang that klei passed the best rework for wolfgang, when he was hit he looses mygthines but sadly the drain was too much (10 * hit) so they complained even more now wolfgang is absolutely broken but only speedrunners want to use him, they could made that his hunger still drains faster when mighty or when hit he loses sanity based on the damage taken but now unless klei notices that wolfgang is incredibly boring to play only a combat rework could fix wolfgang

[@JJ-ds2get-her]

Oh I remember that. The game would be much more interesting. I lost interests in Wolfgang after this downside was removed.

[@kliveran]

Ups mistake about sanity, I wanted to say hunger because losing sanity per hit is Walter's perk :p, but if his strength doesn't go down directly, let his hunger go down by hit so if goes to combat it will go at the cost of hunger,

[@spikyshields]

I totally agree with this video

[@mraz5004]

Man Wolfgang is a G

[@universe8607]

a bit of an off-topic question but do you think that it would be balanced if Wigfrid had a damage boost song?

[@Joojinho]

Not Lardee but I think it would depend on how much damage boost we are talking about, right? IMO it would have to be less than 20% cause that's Warly's boost from chili flakes.

[@POOH_LY]

I think by his standard, it depends on how much dmg boost does she get and also how hard it is to craft the song. However, I don't think he is gonna enjoy it as much as the healing song since more dmg does nothing except making the fight end faster while the healing song fixes a lot of the healing problem that a lot of characters have.

[@universe8607]

@@Joojinho i was thinking 20% for everyone and 10-15% for Wilfrid, just like her healing song heals all wigfrids for smaller amount

[@universe8607]

@@POOH_LY it will be another versatile and strong song in her arsenal. I would really love a direct damage boost song so that wigfrids damage output potential would be slightly closer to other damage dealers but it might not be very balanced

[@Profphizx]

Always thought the the characters ARE the difficulty settings

[@smaragdchaos]

Old Wolfgang was more interesting because his wimpy form had useful niches like perserving food and making healing items more effective, this isn't a thing anymore

[@connorcornwall1404]

His wimpy form makes him less hungry than usual, kinda make food not an issue tbh

[@TeethMeat-jm8ou]

I think old Wolfgang works really well in single player but the rework was made with multiplayer in mind. I think they got rid of hunger tied to mightiness because he turned into a meme of "dude this icebox was full what happened?" And he started being seen as a thief character, like WX smashing people ice box for gears. Was it the best fix? I don't know, but i think that's why they did it.

[@crab-manSorghame]

as a new mindset, but returning player, in my opinion a complete speed rework could possibly be viable, to make wimpy forms viable for bad players and speedrunners. Since there are no drawbacks to mighty, perhaps a speedup from 1.2* in wimpiest, to .8* in mighty form could work. There are simply no drawbacks, hunger aside, which is easily adrdessed with mass crockpots and more. That's just a quick hash in my head, but it pays homage sort of in reverse to OG wolfgang. Even a sanity rework wouldn't be amiss

[@Boss_symbiote]

Dont forget a cooked potato gives 40 hunger and 20 health, Balance

[@johangp1990]

Not sure what I hate more about Wolfgang, his stunt frames when going in/out mighty which constantly leaves u wide open or his awful sanity drop rate.

[@MrFishio]

I literally only play Wolfgang when I’m fighting a cave boss. I play wurt mostly so all the surface bosses I just fight with merms. Wolfgang is nearly pointless for me to play, unless I’m making tons of statues

[@thesupreme2]

His downside is stopping to say “no I must get mighty” or something while you are fighting mobs and then you take damage

[@PakistaniGoatMilker94]

You gain might from fighting so that rarely happens now the only way you can run out of might is if your running and that’s really only dangerous when running from the cave monkeys which is probably the number cause of death in Wolfgang players

[@dsfdsfdsfdsfsd825]

may a wolfgang that increase her damage while he is fighting like wifgrid but damage

[@rovyy8008]

yes

[@jaylt784]

Can't say i agree and i dont want chamge. He's fun for me rn

[@Zeral]

tru

[@CameramanI88]

I was just thinking earlier, “how is Wolfgang not simply broken compared to the other characters?” Having a 2x damage multiplier changes so much about how much resource collection you actually need to do for boss prep. Also relating to another point made in the video, I still haven’t tried playing Wolfgang due to how boring he sounds

[@guille6785]

boss rushing isn't the main point of the game

[@CameramanI88]

@@guille6785 yeah true, I guess I was thinking about just in terms of fighting bosses

[@connorcornwall1404]

Dst is about experience,not "I gotta get all the bosses first!1!1!1" This is not Terraria.this is what I kinda hate about certain dst players.they sometimes takes things too fast,like ruin rushing and make it boring as hell in the end for everyone. This ain't solo unless you play solo in the game,this is multiplayer.Dont Starve TOGETHER. No wonder its dead ahh boring for some people because they just want to go fast

[@25bitgamerx36]

2:45 ORRRRR you can just give these buffs to wolfgang and huh would you look at that everythings dead

[@joaco.]

You are spitting facts bro, wolfgang is boring af

[@S0LIDSNEK]

I’ve only been playing DST about a month, and I very quickly came to this realization too. Wolfgang zzzzzz

[@inky3986]

Wendy main here, Totally agree with you, Wigfrid is basically another easy mode character that practically doesnt have any downsides(almost) and takes very poor skills, like she's a newbie friendly, but she's still a lot more fun than the boring gang, and that's why I just love Wigfrid. But we need to keep that in mind: fun characters exist, and meta characters also exist, your main goal is try to find wich character makes you more interested to play. For me, i find wilson, wolf, wormwood, maxwell, walter, warly, winona boring af, but it's just the style of play that I don't like, however... on the other hand I love play wendy, willow, wx, wigfrid, webber, wurt, wanda, wes and that's it, we all have what we like! Don't be a slave of the meta, search for a character that brings you fun and satisfaction when you play, if you love play wolfgang, there's NO problems with that, I respect any opinion, take care!

[@manboy4720]

clearly wes is the best character, i don't know why people say otherwise #wesisbes

[@carlosleite7011]

Wendy and Wigfrid are not newbie friendly. For Wendy, in fact she is a dangerous character to start playing. The player will be very dependent on her sanity mechanics, as collecting flowers makes her "a sanity station", in addition to her having a 0.75× sanity modifier. And the biggest problem is Abigail, the player will not learn to fight and deal with threats properly because he have a bodyguard doing the job, and she is not good at facing certain bosses, like Deerclops which is every beginner's nightmare. Wigfrid can craft easy head armor and weapon, her combat perks can easily makes the newbie dependent on her. You should recommend newbies to play as Wilson and survive 100 days with him, then now they are "free" to choose other characters without the risk on being relly on their specific mechanics.

[@Joojinho]

I know it's your opinion but why do you think Maxwell is boring but Wigfrid isn't? Is it because you can be cheesy AF with his prison spell? Haha

[@inky3986]

@@Joojinho No, maxwell is cool and a pretty good character, it doesnt matter if he's op or not, my problem with him is the fact i didnt like his style(in game) that much, i've tried to play a lot with him but i can't get into his vibe playstyle. Wigfrid is another story, i can just throw myself on a group of enemies, and still manage to get out with half health, so ig I just love playing acting like a small brain player or being something even more dumb and simple as that.

[@iluvrainsm]

I'd rather say that wig is a great character for newbies who do not engage in boss fights. As someone who dislikes "tanking" wig is one of my favorite characters to play with. Most of her songs are truly amazing especially against afw as not alot of preparations need to be done with her. Again, I really think that it depends on the playstyle and skills of the player most of the wigfrids I've seen in a public are just cooperative by making helms or beef murderers 😭

[@balkansenjoyer]

Based, finally

[@joaco.]

Based

[@z4kv]

this is exactly why i dont play wolfgang he is so op its boring and is just an easy mode for dst his one downside of being scared is just barely a downside because you can kill nightmares in 3 hits

[@user-qk9uq1qy8m]

Wolfgang is still the most pleasant character. Even raid bosses are interesting on it, not boring chunks of fat and hp. Although toad is still a boring boss

[@dragonweirdocreap]

The true downside of Wolf is how boring he is to play

[@MonKeyGuy131]

this is a old video but i consider it insane that you call wolfgang a boring and easy character while saying that wigfrid is perfectly fine which is considered widely as one of the most brainrot characters to play

[@user-ee6ih4tu8i]

After watching this video I went and watched Jakeyosaures' pre rework Wolfgang all-boss run and I view said run as definitive proof that if you're good, Wolfgang had no downsides, who cares that you need twice as much food when enemies die twice as fast? So based on that I think the rework was a smashing success, giving Wolfgang awesome utility. I think right now Wolfgang is a great character for new players such as myself, this big stong man carried my first full year playthrough and that's okay. He will always be OP while he has x2 damage and the only way I see to nerf him in the current state is to remove gaining mightiness while fighting/working, instead have him drain more hunger while at it and stop the loss of mightiness. Also reduce the amount of mightiness he gets while excersising to make it so he idles more to gain his power whille other characters can always be active.

[@doubleh3085]

You raise some very good points. It is true that when compared to other characters, both old and new Wolfgang required less work and skill in order to produce the same damage. It is also true that it lacks the same combat complexity that a lot of characters have gained throughout their reworks like Wigfrid, Woody and Wanda. However, in order to understand the existence of its power creep we need to observe the current state of the game. The reason why Wolfgang appeals so much to a certain brand of players, the brand of obnoxious try hards who love to boss rush and ruins rush and be better than anybody else is because it is currently very difficult to assemble a party of smart players, both in public and private lobbies. A large amount of the playerbase still doesn't know all the ins and outs of the game because it is very complex, requires a lot of time to invest and some players just don't have the patience for that. Wolfgang is essentially a crutch for that kind of players, which is most likely why Klei has kept Wolfgang the way it is, because they know there's a lot of players who essentially play Don't Starve Together "solo". They don't rely on other players, they don't communicate well and in the worst of cases they will boss around everyone because they picked the overpowered character for an ego boost. This brings an interesting comparison to the Forge side game. Everybody loved the Forge because it was fresh, exciting and provided a complex challenge. Characters were pretty well balanced and every role was essential in order to win, which is why players loved it so much, because nobody felt like they were inferior or superior than anybody (at least based on character picks alone). But the Forge was a short paced small package game and DST is a huge long paced monster that requires hundreds of hours to master, which is why it is a pretty difficult challange to balance while keeping the playerbase happy. Did Klei do a good job? Probably not, but we can only hope it will improve over time. Every new boss has been increasing in complexity, so perhaps we'll see balance tweeks over time that suit the new mechanics it brings to the table.

[@guille6785]

wtf is that second paragraph bro chill the imaginary people you're complaining about aren't out to get you it sounds like you have edgy rick ptsd

[@fr3shlian716]

I agree that neither version of Wolfgang really works in terms of the price of his special power. Although I strongly disagree with your point that the old version had synnergies with specific characters. Getting food is not hard and every character can farm, be it crops while only being slightly slower than Wormwood or other food sources. The idea of keeping his old hunger mechanic with the new perks is interesting, but I don't think his strength should be tied to his hunger at all. Especially now that he actually has a mightyness meter it just doesn't make sense to me to have it be tied to hunger nor does his lore have anything to do with food as far as I know. But for some reason Wolfgang still needs his hunger to be really high. In his animated short his muscles were infused by some shadows from Maxwell's Codex Umbra to make him strong, which could have probably made for an interesting mechanic using nightmare fuel to craft items for mightyness, but in-game a bit of weight lifting does the trick... Edit: I also wanted to add: In his animated short he lifted big weights in what would be his normal form. What can his "normal" already quite muscular and strong form do in-game? NOTHING

[@chinpokomon_]

idea 1: usage of dumbells could drain hunger idea 2: make shadow creatures constantly haunt him (that only drain sanity). increase max count or spawn rate of shadow creatures

[@AeyakS]

So. I don't feel as if anything in your assessment is untrue: Wolfgang is inherently a very easy character to excel as, his downsides do not greatly affect gameplay for experienced players, and his mechanics are very basic when compared to the unique, overpoweredness-built-over-time playstyles that characters like Wanda, Wendy, Warly and other characters have. However, I do not think that Wolfgang is a bad character because he is a powerful character, nor do I think that there are any changes that can be made that will evolve the standard playstyle of his character into something unique while preserving what is important about his character. Wolfgang is the most important character in the game for solo rushing lategame content. His character fulfills a niche for players who can't rely on teammates to get things done and need the high but accessible damage potential to have an easier experience getting to their goals. In my opinion this isn't a bad thing at all. Yes, he is ridiculously powerful for one character, but so are 5 synchronous non-Wolfgang players who have various abilities allow for healing, automation, crowd control, base-building, and mobility. The effect of one Wolfgang versus an entire team is actually fairly demure when it comes to cooperative play. In a team of 2, a Wolfgang sums 66.7% of the damage on a single target, but the more other players there are, the less substantial a Wolfgang is for battling. On the other hand, as the number of players increase, the character choice and utility benefits become far more important than damage potential. Is Wolfgang a crutch that may be a little too easy at times? Yes, but, he's still important as a character and he doesn't need to change for the sake of difficulty. Also this is personal but, I hate Old Wolfgang a lot. I think he's fine as is, and his downside is the very fact that he lacks synergies with other characters that make teamwork more effective for cooperative play. That's enough for me if it means that I don't have to struggle as much for the parts of the game that weren't designed with singleplayer in mind.

[@Andrew-ch3xj]

Why does wolfgang needs a nerf. If u want hard game play wes lmao. This isnt a pvp

[@laslax2019]

The biggest mistake was letting Wolfgang gain mightiness from hitting enemies and using tools.

[@darthmauve]

without that he would still be op he would just need to use dumbells sometimes while fighting stuff

[@connorcornwall1404]

Without that,you all will complain about his "losing muscle" animation.

[@limonadik_lol4246]

Wigfrid is still better

[@fo0liner1985]

I think Wolfgang is great the way he is right now.. you don't play him for group synergie (tho he does bring the damage). you don't play him for a "sense of accomplishment" either.. thats what Wes is for.. you play him to have a smooth experience, a little boost of confidence and some minor QoL helpers. All in all a great choice for beginners that want a little help when it comes to soloing bosses without changing settings to easy mode or cheating via console.

[@JavelineerKrieg]

Wolfgang is the most boring champion ingame. Back in the old dont starve wilson and wolfgang were cool. Now everyone only cares about the champions who have a skill tree and an enjoyable playstyle

[@loopuleasa]

btw, warly is a bad comparison warly is a roleplay/farmer/switch character the fun of warly is farming a lot of powerful stuff to stockpile and share with the gang

[@tommy-ul2yy]

time to play wolfgang before they nerft it lol

[@darthmauve]

i dont really think they would nerf a character they already did a rework for, even if that character is absolutely op

[@user-qm6gu4pm8p]

Only problem playing wolf is animation when becoming weaker

[@loopuleasa]

apart from boringness, wolfgang issue is that he has no downside unless you play uncompromising mode where sanity is an actual issue, wolfgang's downside is nothing

[@darthmauve]

even in uncompromising mode the really dangerous nightmares only spawn when you are really low sanity so you can just kill the lower level nightmare creatures like crawling horrors as soon as they spawn because you do 100 damage per hit and then have your sanity back at the not insane level

[@Marqan]

Wolfgang is just meant for newer players imo. I mean making him more interesting or less boring in the eyes of an experienced player would also make him more complex, which wouldn't be noob-friendly. For newer players I doubt it's boring, cause it might be the character that they can use to finally defeat Bee Queen or Dragonfly for the first time. There's no way Warly will be that breakthrough character. Not having to stress so much about fights also frees up time and brainpower to focus on other aspects of the game, which can help in learning. You could see the same thing with pre-rework Wigfrid: lots of new players picked her cause of no-brainer combat abilities. So ye, I don't think Wolfgang was meant to be interesting for experienced players. Anything else you would add to him could make him either too complex or difficult to help new players, or too good for experienced players. Or you would need to change him so much that you might as well just create a whole new character. Plus I don't think you need a too interesting character when you're still just exploring the world itself. And ye, I can see that experienced players lost an interesting damage dealer with the rework, but now they have Wanda, who is MUCH more interesting and engaging. Also, being able to handle bosses alone is not a negative, lots of people play DST alone. I'd be fine if they made him more interesting of course, cause I don't use him either, but I'm also fine with him having just an easy damage multiplier.

[@ErikStewart-is1hm]

Wolfgang can keep his flat 2x damage, i just don't think he deserves to row faster, mine faster, chop faster and be faster then all other characters when wearing marble or piggyback. To me thats just favoritism of a character he gets special treatment hes the charizard of dst.

[@connorcornwall1404]

WX-78:

[@foretcl]

I don’t see the problem of being a newbie character. If you are solo or you want to have an easier time might just play him. As you said, there are characters with more interesting skills, than can deal as much damage as him, or even more, being harder to play. Then what’s the problem with that? It’s not like dst is a PvP game or something, just play whatever you feel is fun, and let newbies play that, which can be their way to explore and learn the game.

[@loopuleasa]

I came here to say the problem is: he is boring as it is not fun to be interrupted and cc'd

[@orangedontstarve]

no you are wrong

[@bearcat4861]

hello everyone

[@anthonylopez2149]

I mean you can say the same with Wendy. Wendy is broken she pretty much has no downside. Mind you she does less damage, but the thing is Abigail just mitigates that downside with her debuff which is kinda counter intuitive in my opinion.

[@kauihill8519]

I can tell that you don’t have any experience fighting bosses as Wendy.

[@connorcornwall1404]

Can say the same to WX-78.dude can buff himself,eat spoiled food with no downsides yet y'all complain about wolf gang first.

[@daniel3038]

But wendy also dont has practically downsides , you dont even need skill to use her really to survive if you dont belive me just look all the people in pubs being carried with abigail, wendy is a crutch, and cmon men grinding for flowers for the potions and the beefalo saddle is not that much grind. But yeah i agree with you about Wolfgang but men dont tell that wendy the best crutch of the game requires more skill than him bruh. Anyways still a good video ❤

[@balazsfenyes3880]

So much cry from speedrunners about good characters like Wigfrid and Wolfgang. I guess you only play Wes right?

[@ozylocz4078]

Damn, this video is straight just complaining about a character you don’t have to play in a pve game lol I’ve never played Wolfgang and guess what? You can do the same. Comparing him to old Wolfgang saying it took skill and planning to eat an extra meatball compared to now(then) is pretty funny ngl The game is scaled for multiplayer but a lot of people play solo, if they simply want a straight forward character n not have fights go on forever then Wolfgang is the perfect character for them. I was like 2 minutes away from finishing the video but I couldn’t, it’s literally just complaining

[@kickoff4750]

nah wolfgang is fun

[@titodickdickmanbaby3148]

Disagree. Wolfgang is a selfish character, who does nothing for the team (except I guess faster work). His double damage stands out when you are playing solo, and I'm pretty sure this is what you're basing your whole opinion on. In any group where the characters may synergise or cover eachothers weaknesses, Wolfgang's value diminishes. Secondly, since you are comparing him to Warly, let's really compare what advantages their ability give, since your assessment was a bit unfair, and the scenario you proposed heavily favoured your already decided conclusion. Warly has a much bigger downside, because his upsides are all much better too. Honey crystals make you work faster than mighty Wolfgang. Garlic absorbs damage, mitigating some of the downside from healing foods not being spammable, and increasing the effective HP to the same as Wolfgangs. Volt goat jelly achieves 1.8x damage against dry enemies when paired with chilly powder, (usually you use both anyway) which is very close to Wolfgangs double damage. You wouldn't use it to kill trash mobs because they are easy to defeat even for characters with no damage multiplier, so assuming you're fighting a boss, waiting for it to rain isn't a hard condition to fulfill, because there are so many other tasks to accomplish in the game that aren't related to fighting, you can easily leave the fights to when it is wet. Maybe, in a speedrun or boss rush this of course would be a big hinderence. This brings me to the next point. It is okay for some characters to be better at some things than others. Wolfgang being good at rushing and speedruns is fine, healthy for the game even. Not every character needs to be viable in every situation. The game is fun because of the variety of playstyles that it allows to be OP in different situations. Only focusing on damage isn't fair, because there are other things that matter too, and that matter to far more players. Wickerbottom isn't good because she can solo every boss in a minute. Players that love to sit in the base and farm ungodly amounts of resources for their team can have their playstyle covered for too. One thing that you don't really touch on is the comparison between ease of access and potential. Sure Wolfgang is very easy to attain double damage with. But his maximum potential is way lower than Warlys. Not only can he not share any of his power with his team, his maximum damage is way lower too, by quite a lot. Imagine a you need to pair up with a Wilson. A Wolfgang and a Wilson together fighting a boss is essentially 3x damage. Now imagine you pair him with a Warly. Imagine both of them have goat horn jelly. In the best scenario, you have 6x damage with both players. Thats DOUBLE. Sure this scenario I've described favours Warly, but this is because they point I'm trying to make is that Warlys advantages are shared with everyone. ALL of them are unique and very powerful, at the cost of sone setup, whereas Wolfgang brings nothing to the team, but costs only a few seconds of chucking around a dumbell. Oh, one final point I forgot to mention... how grossly you misrepresented how easily you can get goat horns if you're competent. If you're talking about the maximum potential of Warly, you have to assume a seasoned player is in control, so they would know how to farm those things, or at the very least to keep them for the situations that best suit the use. I didn't expect to write such a long comment, and i don't expect anyone to read to the end, but to finish off, the whole conversation at the end of the day is about the game design. Personally, I don't believe every character has to be applicable in every situation, not every character has to be hard to use, and not every character needs to be as strong as the rest. It's a co-op game, not a multiplayer shooter. Fun and variety is more important than balance, and providing many playstyles, some of which are similar but with varying degrees of accessibility, such as for damage, Wolfgang being easiest, and Warly and Wanda being harder, is perfect for a game like DST. There is no problem with Wolfgang, and the tiny bit of downtime for him to get the buff is the only thing thats a debateably a poor design choice.