The Problems With Ace Attorney And How TGAAC Fixed All Of Them

[@ratatoskr6324]

A lot of people keep mentioning the multiple witness system is from the Layton crossover. I didn't play that one so I didn't mention it.

[@banyu123]

Man, you really need to play it, it's one of the best AA game, the layton part is just more like the investigation part of of the regular AA, the meaty story still happen in the court part.

[@DWN037]

A true gentleman never leaves a puzzle unsolved

[@gamefreakDX]

Layton vs Ace Attorney was actually my first AA game. It's messy in story, but I have fond memories of it. Going from that game to this game (even when I watched it in 2015) was really cool to see because how much they improved on what was in PLvAA graphically and gameplay-wise. The only thing I was disappointed by, and it's the same issue with AA5 and 6, they don't use their VAs enough, but PLvAA uses their VAs like Layton games do: in the important scenes.

[@jooglebob]

You should give it a try, you'll see how the Great Ace Attorney had several ideas start in the crossover. The game has its warts, sure, but you will have a fun time with it.

[@izzy1356]

Highly recommend it. While it's not as great as the main titles of both franchises, it still does a FANTASTIC job capturing each franchise's charm. Plus the OST and prosecutors are great too.

[@BiggBossChanel]

I think the biggest reason Susato is so memorable is just the way the relationship between her a Ryunosuke develops, they go from strangers to forced partners to bonding out of tragedy and as time goes by it just feels so natural to seem them alongside each other, which makes both the time when they go apart and when they get back together feel so strongly

[@floricel_112]

Not to mention they're all alone in a strange new country that hates them for being them on a spectrum, having to struggle with lodgings and money until Holmesie essentially adopts them and takes them off the street. You really get the feeling that it's really them against the world and supporting each other is all they've got

[@SasukeUchiha5DX]

I see this as 1 game with 10 cases. I can imagine that people who played the first game on the 3DS felt unsatisfied, because it just set's up the second game, leaving quite a few mysteries. But playing both games back to back is an absolute ride. The characters are very well developed and the story builds nicely. And whoever made the soundrack deserves and award and a raise.

[@blissfulstatic2563]

That's actually how it was supposed to be. They had to cut it in halves because of file limitations which left the first game so unsatisfying. I'm glad it's all back in one piece with just a few things out of order.

[@Hyziant]

Yeah. Honestly, I saw GAA1 as the tutorial for GAA2. No cases in GAA1 feel long (the longest cases don’t even have multiple investigations/trials) and it didn’t feel too hard. The 2nd game felt challenging and had a case that spanned two fucking episodes.

[@jorgecaimanque6951]

@@blissfulstatic2563 Huh? I see in the dev notes in the special content that most of the second game was written as an afterthought tho?

[@SamTheFoolishMan]

Honestly I played it pretty optimally. I finished DGS1 in January and then I only had a 6 month wait until the next game so I had time to sit in think about the game without having burnout or waiting 2 years with an uncertain sequel

[@aayushdhurka2425]

Fucking absolutely correct

[@leritykay8911]

One of the things I like about Van Zieks, is that he doesn't REALLY go through a major character arc (I mean he does but not a huge one), but rather a character revelation. At first he seems like a total bully, but the more time you spend with him, the more you see his better side. Him not firing the sleepy Bobby guy. His concern for how Natsume and Gina are doing, after being prosecuted by him. Him taking care of his old university friend. It's not like Van Zieks CHANGES to be like that. It's more like we get to see how good he could be all along

[@Hexishu]

You just expressed it perfectly

[@P1r4n]

The one aspect where he DOES have character growth is him accepting Ryunosuke over the course of the duology.

[@Powder-Point]

@@P1r4nWhich simultaneously affects his perception of the Japanese. Him learning that [SPOILER] was the Professor means that his racism was pointless, it is an indirect punishment for his racism. His breakdown is essentially punishment for his mistreatment of the Japanese. There was no reason for him to be prejudiced because he blamed the wrong person. He blames the wrong people. Also shows how he is very contradictory as a person, he is very logical in court but he is very emotionally irrational. He is an example of how illogical and irrational human nature could be. He knows that he is irrational, and he tries to change himself. His relationship with Ryunosuke evolves to the point where he realises his mistakes and tries to make amends for them prior to knowing the Professor’s identity. This is evident by how he acknowledges that Ryu is a good defence attorney during the final case of Adventures, despite still being heavily prejudiced towards him. He trusts him to be Albert’s defence attorney despite being prejudiced towards him. The more positively he viewed Ryu, then the more positively he views the Japanese. Ryu didn’t try to change van Zieks nor did he try to make him change his view. Ryu just by being himself affected van Zieks’ views. Van Zieks feels very “human” to me. Life is not black and white, people can change and Barok van Zieks showcases this perfectly.

[@kuba37571]

@@Powder-Point no joke, if this game was craeted by some western studio with a western writer Zieks would have been shamed to death and made the most evil person in the whole story for his racism. It's so surprising to see this type of character flaw written with dignity and understanding.

[@Powder-Point]

@@kuba37571 Honestly while I have some minor issues with the way van Zieks prejudice is approached. I adore the fact that this racist man is the most developed character in the whole cast, he has the most depth to him and has the most dimensions to him. He is a multifaceted character whilst being the most complex character in the main cast. Van Zieks displaying a prejudiced attitude weirdly enough helps to build his character rather than take it away. I love how he is the most human character in the whole cast, he feels very complete, he has humanity at the same time is prejudiced (love how much contrast he has). He is a very fascinating character to me especially in the way he is written. Van Zieks illustrates that people can change, and that is a very important belief that we should maintain especially in todays age. Life is not black and white. The path of redemption is tough but is still attainable. Most people will portray racists as one dimensional bad guys, but van Zieks is different, as van Zieks above all else is human.

[@psykofreac9188]

I agree it was a problem with prosecutors in earlier Ace Attorney games how they're supposed geniuses yet get shocked with every smallest contradiction you reveal. Van Zieks is definitely better with how he's usually aware of these contradictions and waits for Ryunosuke to present them then has a counter argument prepared. It makes him more formidable and gives the sense that it will take much more than finding a minor flaw in a witness testimony to solve the case. It's only the really decisive proof that really gets Van Zieks tense and you know you're reaching the truth of the case. Finding a contradiction in a usual Ace Attorney game: "The witness has cake crumbs on his face!" Standard Prosecutor: "What?! that can't be!" Finding a contradiction in Great Ace Attorney Chronicles: "The smell from the witness's breath is a composition of cake and mouth wash!" Van Zieks: "So... You've noticed..."

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

Mafred von Karma was the same way. he shut down any attempt to try and press and prod stall for giant contradictions and had airtight evidence. phoenix would have lost had larry not burst through the door and begged to testify.

[@olivierdubreuil-gagnon2201]

@@fulltimeslackerii8229 Only real difference between the two is that Manfred was cheating to get the same result as van Zieks.

[@Nixahma]

I feel like that also makes Ryuu look more competent. He's meeting van Zieks at his own level, not catching him off guard and using the small recovery time to bluff some sort of explanation that he can further establish while the prosecution tries to deny it. To put it metaphorically, the mainline games felt like race where you would be losing trip up your opponent, and gradually gain distance on them. TGAA feels like you're keeping pace with them.

[@jasonwalton9553]

Off-topic, but I love how the sample contradiction is twice as long for TGAA. 100% accurate. /lh

[@ToneTrace]

For me, Blackquill was like this too... I don't remember pretty well actually---

[@Blarglesnarfe]

Something REALLY weird that nobody seems to talk about... is that Case 2 is the only case in the series that has NO courtroom section. It's not there. Not even an excuse of one is there, you do NO courtroom stuff, it's just investigation. It's on a ship, and that's it. Cool af.

[@Absolute_Zero7]

Tbh I'm not too sure that's a positive. Now maybe this was bad timing on my part since I first played TGAA via the fan translation immediately after finishing AAI2, and after the stellar pacing those games offered, TGAA-2 felt so hollow. While playing through it, especially the beggining, I was constantly expecting to see a close up and have a AAI style argument yet most conflicts were resolved with one piece of evidence presented and it just felt really sluggish.

[@BassForever]

Cool on paper... really boring in execution, and downright infuriating after you play Resolve.

[@Klonoahedgehog]

Well your in the middle of the océan during this. So it makes sense

[@Gusildirim]

For me playing this case was like playing an Ace Attorney Investigations game. So I think it's not a bad thing.

[@WarpChaos]

Not true. You forget Investigations.

[@Eisenschnell]

The original trilogy were actually GBA games not DS games, the DS versions were just later ports. I think that makes the first 3 even more impressive that the GBA could have VNs that are THAT good.

[@watermelonslime2971]

Easy to forget since America never got the gba releases

[@rubyy.7374]

@@watermelonslime2971 The West just wasn’t ready for its awesomeness just yet.

[@watermelonslime2971]

@@rubyy.7374 dunno if Capcom tried but I know fan efforts to translate the gba versions are like near impossible since the amount of text increases from Japanese to English like crazy

[@bassoonplatoon3146]

Yep. I actually bought the original untranslated GBA for T&T. It's actually crazy how they compacted the original game into a cartridge of that size for the time.

[@Lungoomba21]

@@bassoonplatoon3146 to the point that they couldn't make new Gumshoe portraits for Case 4, so they had to recolor him to get the job done.

[@BoyaDesu]

What I like about Von Zieks even more is his reputation as the Reaper of the Bailey. Almost all previous games had the main opposing prosecution boast a perfect guilty record and they carry on like nothing happened to their record after they lose for the first time ever. Von Zieks isn't like that. Whether he wins or loses, the defendant always dies either by being sent to the gallows or by external means. So when you beat him for the first time, his reputation managed to precede him even after not prosecuting anyone for 5 long years.

[@banyu123]

Now when I think about it, it's also the first AA when your partners didn't turn into your client: Maya, Ema, Athena, Trucy, all had been there, except Susato.

[@BoyaDesu]

@@banyu123 Trucy almost escaped it until SoJ not that I'm complaining since that case is a banger

[@beany119]

also l e g

[@milkflavored]

Great point! Love this

[@OriginalGameteer]

There's also the fact to me that he isn't interested in winning by any means necessary. When he has an issue with the defense's claims, it typically makes sense, and he if loses he accepts that the accused really wasn't the killer (exceptions aside).

[@cosmicspacething3474]

And the best part? THEY FINALLY BROKE THIRD CASE SYNDROME BABY!!! McGuilded’s trial was freaking awesome!

[@GoodLosertjo]

they broke 3rd case syndrome in AAI2

[@oscarzxn4067]

I really liked the third case in SoJ.

[@williamnathanael412]

And also 3rd case of 2nd game, though I'm not personally a fan of horrors.

[@lukasvokurka9224]

Ehm. What about Turnabout Academy from Ace Attorney Dual destinies? Because I liked that one. Also I don't think the 3rd case in first game was bad. I dunno if I am weird, but I think it was quite interesting case.

[@quinntessentialskill7414]

Third Case Syndrome's definition has been sort of muddied. Mostly, Third Case Syndrome is involving a case that doesn't relate to the overarching story of that game. 1-3, for example, doesn't expand on Edgeworth, or Maya, or anything. I argue third case syndrome ended after Investigations, with the original trilogy each having secluded third cases, apollo justice having one, only for Investigations to introduce Lang in case 3, and ever since, all 3rd cases have involved the overall story.

[@octochan]

One of the benefits of the 3D characters is that they can be better integrated into the environments. People turn around to look at the background, characters you need to talk to actually appear in the setting and are interacting with the stuff there, you pan over and there's Sholmes doing something wacky.

[@LumosVeil]

Absolutely. One of my gripes with the 3D AA titles (DD/SoJ) is how they just refused?? To use the 3D character models to their fullest extent when it’s not outside court sessions?? Like they did something in DD with Fulbright popping out of a window in case 5-3 and that was pretty funny, but aside from 3D related mechanics I thought it was super underwhelming how little they used animation for the models. Like they could have taken the opportunity to give the characters more animations or actions, both in investigations or in court. But no they want to stay faithful I guess. I’m pretty sure they even got rid of examining evidence in 3D view in DD which was upsetting, they did bring it back in SoJ though so I guess that’s fine. Anyways the point being that it’s disappointing how just.. Really underwhelming the main 3D AA games are compared to TGAAC, especially considering TGAA1 only came out a year before SoJ in 2016. The margin of quality between the two games is just.. Oof it’s really yikes.

[@faultf4]

I felt the 5 stages of grief with sholmes

[@lpfan4491]

​Yeah, I will never understand why they largely went with half-measures in DD and SoJ. It fails to capture the positives of either the artbased-titles or the fully expressive 3D ones. It just feels so flat in style.

[@christianjohnrojo7966]

Agree on Susato. She was really well written as a character and has skills on par and at times higher than Ryu.Which is also kind of my issue, the games were too easy as the conversation between the two after the testimony does give hints. But all in all, it is a good game

[@OriginalGameteer]

Eh I kinda disagree on the post testimony point There's a bunch of times where they just state the obvious and what's already known, it doesn't always point you in some direction. Sometimes, yeah, but not alot of the time from what I've seen. Most of the time it's just "review everything, we HAVE to find a contradiction!"

[@turix3391]

I never knew that most post testimony had hints. No wonder I had some trouble on a few testimonies!

[@SuperShadowdragon14]

I only felt that in the tutorial case.

[@INFERN0FIRE]

I think the first game is far too easy. There's so little evidence and the plot is quite predictable for the most part. The second game fixes that. I actually think that the first case in the second game is harder than any case in the first game. Both games have the issue that the court sections aren't as fun, since they feature and introduce too many characters. In the other games you usually meet several characters outside the court room and then cross examine most of them in court. However, the best characters in the great ace attorney aren't witnesses. This means that almost all witnesses in court, except for the culprits of course, are flat characters, since there is no time to develop them in the short time that they appear, which is only in court. Haven't said that, the second game is definitely one of the best ace attorney games, because of the plot and its major characters. The first game is probably one of the worst ace attorney games though, since it has very little going for it. There was not more than one point in the first game were I wondered what had happened, since the plot is so simple.

[@Carlos-M]

@@INFERN0FIRE Interestingly, I thought Chapter 1 of TGAA2 was one of the easiest cases of the entire series. I already examined the newspaper and the fountain pen, and when Soseki identifies the third witness, I pretty had it figured out by then. After that I was just looking for the right statement to press for and the right evidence to present against it.

[@misterpayah7723]

Van Zieks is so smart that it's an actual "Wow!" moment when he has no rebuttal. I'm thinking of a specific moment in 2-3 where he's hunched over glaring at Runo without a comeback. It's one of the only moments when he genuinely looks stumped. It stands out just because it's SO rare.

[@solarwreathe3789]

Thank you for making this, I really agree with your points - I like that TGAA ditches the supernatural gimmicks from mainline for something more organic and rooted solely in logical deductions. I also want to say that I heard the sales for TGAA aren't doing too good right now, so if any of you are thinking 'wow, this series is a great shift from the usual formula, I'd like to see more of this' then please don't hesitate to do what you can to spread the word - it needs all the support it can get right now!

[@HouseMDLover69]

What did you do to Soseki omg where is his mustache wtf

[@Antiyoukai]

I love the supernatural stuff on AA though.

[@solarwreathe3789]

@@Antiyoukai Don't get me wrong, I liked how the spirit medium stuff was ingrained into the trilogy's cases (and I actually enjoyed the mood matrix mechanic sometimes...lol), but I'm glad they went for something different in TGAA to cement it as its own series rather than just a spin-off from the original games.

[@solarwreathe3789]

@@HouseMDLover69 I'm holding his mustache hostage until TGAA tops the sales charts

[@starsong3]

I think the only sales numbers out right now are physical sales in Japan- which are low, but because of those two reasons. afaik we haven’t heard about int’l digital sales. So! Fingers crossed! I loved this game for all the reasons the video said as well.

[@R3turnByDeath]

Another big reason why TGAAC feels so good is capcom gave Shu unlimted creative power because of what happened between Capcom and Shu because of PLVSPW development

[@Koioi]

Wait, what happened? Did he have creative disagreements with Capcom?

[@R3turnByDeath]

@@Koioi Naa he was working on PL vs PW for so long, Capcom wanted a new ace attorney game because it had been awhile, so they went ahead and made a new one being lead by the two directors of the edgeworth games

[@julianx2rl]

Is pretty cool how Layton managed to leave such a mark in the Pheonix Wright franchise, especially considering the fact that the Layton was made with Pheonix as an inspiration.

[@ThePrimeMinisterOfTheBlock]

Aaah that explains how he got away with so much Holmes-worship. These games feel like a love letter to Conan Doyle

[@KEN4K]

@@ThePrimeMinisterOfTheBlock If what I heard is right(that Doyle hated Sherlock)that would be pretty ironic

[@runningoncylinders3829]

Susato is amazing, and the side cast as a whole shined so bright. I loved all the quirky British characters who showed up as witnesses or jurors. The mysteries were mostly really solid, and I liked getting a fresher take on AA than even AJ had been before.

[@OrdonWolf]

[SPOILERS] One thing that made me love van Zieks was that he turns out to be a genuinely good man of solid principles during a final case that was such a shitfest of corruption and moral depravity where every single character previously hailed for being morally upstanding turns out to be stained at best, rotten at worse. I was seriously expecting the game to go "Genshin was a saint, actually" but no, he wasn't, and they weren't afraid of dragging so many other characters through the mud along with him. Turns out it's the scary prosecutor incapable of smiling who was the most principled... Except the racism of course, but he's learned his lesson.

[@jeremytewari3346]

Van Zieks really is the epitome of "I was racist but I got better, my tweets 10 years ago don't reflect me now" lmao

[@popopop984]

@@jeremytewari3346 We have to believe in redemption, or we’ll never go anywhere

[@cowboyoctopus2738]

I wouldn't say characters like Gregson got dragged through the mud, it's more like they were another reason to hate stronghart Like Ryunnosuke says in the last case, Gregson and Dr. Wilson were no criminals, yet stronghart used them to achieve his goals

[@jasonfatdog6491]

I love van Zieks because he's amazing with words in the courtroom yet he's incredibly socially inept which reminds me of when i was a kid. I unironically have a headcanon that Barok is autistic

[@Nixahma]

@@jasonfatdog6491 *slowly raises hand*

[@Captain_Bottles]

Poor Apollo,,,, I love him so much because he’s such a great character, but his backstory is FUCKED

[@detectivehan5717]

wait what happened??

[@Captain_Bottles]

@@detectivehan5717 A lot of things! Lots of people close to him dying, him being betrayed by people he’s close to, having more and more stuff added to his backstory rather than expanded on I can’t spoil anything really, but reading his fandom wiki entry is a time

[@falconeshield]

@@Captain_Bottles His backstory was created by people afraid of fan backlash, which resulted in fan backlash lol

[@WarpChaos]

@@falconeshield It's because of all the criticism of his nonexistent backstory in the 4th game, so they went overboard with the 5th and 6th games.

[@aurelienbleriot6150]

@@WarpChaos Wrong : they didn't do anything about Apollo in game 5, except for killing one of his "friend" we've never seen before, with a very silly and cringe-inducing story. AA5 was centered around Athena-Sue, hence why it sucked hard

[@Nixahma]

Oh, and by the way, if you meant his reaction to the book in case 4 by “Van Zieks is only surprised by things he couldn’t have reasonably known”, I actually saw someone who said he wasn’t as surprised by the book as he was by realizing that the defendant might actually be innocent, and he’s effectively damned them.

[@perisbizarrecorner7443]

You splendidly pointed out conflicting points growing as the franchise grows in titles, Phoenix is so iconic that it feels they're afraid of walking away from him or giving him more growth that distances from the underdog lawyer [despite the fact he's supposed to have years of experience and talent with big cases] so after Apollo Justice he has no growth whatsoever as they brought him back to his old shenanigans, of the main cast of characters over the series the only one who gets properly explored and has incredible growth and continuity is Edgeworth [which shows the shame that is not having an official localization of Miles Edgeworth Investigations 2] Investigations 2 and TGAA are my favorites games due to the amazing storytelling and changes to gameplay

[@keyaaghaei]

Man, blame Capcom for wanting to keep Phoenix in every game as the protagonist.

[@aurelienbleriot6150]

I think AAI2 is very overrated, mostly because it didnt have an official translation and that it followed an even more terrible game. The game in itself was rather boring, the Chess Logic mechanic was bland, and the cases took too long for no reason. The villain is also lame.

[@sonicplays8740]

@@aurelienbleriot6150 I'm not sure about the villain being lame though.

[@MailmanSSB]

This is probably one of my favorite games of all time, and I think the main reason is that TGAA does such an amazing job with premise. The main premise of most Ace Attorney games is that you’re a defense attorney in a Japan-inspired America and you have to defend your clients. The plot of each individual game may expand on this with characters and whatnot, but the overall concept remains the same for each game. The Great Ace Attorney puts more emphasis on the complexity of its premise - few games have stories that take place at the turn of the 20th century, but even fewer illustrate such an interesting relationship between two empires (in this case, Britain and Japan). You’re not just playing as a fledgeling attorney, but as a student who began studying law suddenly because of radical, life-changing events. And then on top of all of this, the game’s cases are heavily inspired by the Sherlock Holmes novels, which give the story even more character. This is already so much to go off of conceptually, but TGAA takes this premise and continues to build complexity off of it in each of its cases. You learn more about London, its citizens, its laws, and its hidden darkness. Many of the characters you encounter have more to them than initially meets the eye. And the writers can really pull this off because the story is split into two different games. I just think it’s so well done.

[@iantaakalla8180]

It also helps that each story is unique in of itself; Adventures is about how Ryunosuke became confident in his skills to become a lawyer, which is important because he was literally forced into it and is therefore more nervous (and Cases 3 and 4 don’t help either, what with McGilded expertly tampering with the omnibus and the accidents of Case 4). But Case 5 shows that he’s ready to hold his own despite his help in letting McGilded interfere. And in Resolve, it pays off; he solves the biggest crime involving two empires and two judges (one of which is a Chief Justice). Case 2 resolves Adventures’ Case 4, people are prosecuting normally, It is all the highlights of what people find great about Ace Attorney hypercompressed into one great story with two games. It also is more realistic; you’re in the Meiji Era, so almost every Englishperson is racist against Ryunosuke. Adventures’ cases are strange and unsatisfying and Ryunosuke feels that too, until case 5. Adventure’s Case 3, because of the blatant perjury and tampering, gets Ryunosuke barred. Herlock Sholmes notices stuff but basically connects whatever to whatever because it’s really hard to deduce straightaway the real actions of a scene. The jurors themselves need to be convinced since they help the decision being made. The rich person can effectively manipulate the court and only gets justice in the shadows. Barok Van Zieks is racist and even if he grows out of it he finds it hard to do so. Finally, what happens in Resolve’s Case 5 is properly momentous. You really feel that you’re in this area of great change and intrigue and that you’ve accidentally stepped foot in a conspiracy that by luck you bring down, without much of the antics that would happen in mainstream Ace Attorney on Ryunosuke’s or the prosecutor’s end while still being quirky, and you have the tension of a Spirit of Justice-like game without a massive dumping of events happening. That also isn’t to say that Barok Van Zieks is probably one of the best prosecutors. He is quirky and over dramatic, but he is also professional and seeks to do his job without letting that quirk overtake him, like Miles’ taunting, Franziska’s whipping, Godot’s coffee, Klavier’s overly casual style, Simon’s samurai pretensions or Nahyuta’s act of a religious prosecutor.

[@keyaaghaei]

Man, blame Capcom for wanting to keep Phoenix in every game as the protagonist.

[@rbxless]

19th century*

[@Alesan99]

Seeing the main series undo the new direction Apollo Justice was trying to set up was so disappointing. I don't outright dislike any of the new games, but its clear that its difficult balancing og trilogy nostalgia stuff, apollo's storyline, athena & new characters, and the more dramatic plotlines they've been doing. But TGAA was such a fresh and unique take on the series that it makes me excited for the future.

[@portonato6971]

completely agree. i think the biggest mistake was probably not going with the direction AJ set up. i honestly fell in love with the concept that the game had in mind, with the fall of phoenix wright, the overall moodier atmosphere/tone and the cast of characters. sure, the execution could’ve been better, but that’s what a second (and perhaps third) game would have been for; to add and improve to this new, changed world. but then they made phoenix the MC, added a bunch of new characters that resulted in them unable to keep up with all the plotlines and faces and destroyed my second favourite character in the game with a painfully obvious unplanned backstory. the pain. but, TGAA was a godsend and probably AA’s magnum opus.

[@anti-roxas850]

I'm going to the series right now. Finish the 2nd game and decided to play TGAAC before finishing Phoenix's story. But I have been watching videos about Apollo's Justice. As a JJBA fan, I love when characters passed the torch to the Next Generation. Hearing that Capcom try to milk Phoenix Wright by bringing him out of retirement genuinely upsets me. I will be stopping at Apollo's first game

[@Fall-oo6mt]

cool, dd is still my favorite aa game tho

[@beany119]

There’s something else I love about these two games that I haven’t seen ever really mentioned, and that’s because its a rather small detail: The pursuit theme (a damn good one) only plays during the very conclusion of the trial, right when the case is about to be fully made, and it only plays once or twice (and if it does play twice they’re within minutes of each other). And there’s even some cases (1-2 and 1-3) where the pursuit theme never even plays, something unheard of in previous AA games afaik. Even more reasons to support the fact that this game took the general formula and shattered it almost as much as the screen when you replace Holmes’ deduction…

[@__rikaisuru]

This. The pursuit theme is so grand and exhilarating, perfect for the defense's "coup de grace". So imagine my surprise when I first heard _Prelude to the Pursuit_ in TGAA2. TGAA broke so many formulas, and for the better.

[@danielsher5439]

old comment, but I'd like to point out that in the soundtrack albums of the previous games, the pursuit theme plays with the rest of the court suite near the beginning. In the PLvsAA and Chronicles albums, they play towards the end, which I think is emblematic of how Takumi treats the build up of tension, suspense, release and climax in scenario writing.

[@banyu123]

I think the best part and why it feels kinda fresh is the absence of supernatural elements, which actually a staple in mainline ace attorney before. I loved this game, the ending definitely not as grand as the ending of AA3 or AAI2, but as a whole definitely one of my favourite. Now let's hope this sell well enough for Capcom so they can make AAI collections, it's criminal that the best AA still not available officially. Also, HD version of Layton vs Ace Attorney would be nice, that game plays still locked on just the 3ds, not even smartphone version exist.

[@BlackHedgehog]

What I have played of AAI1 was fairly good so I'd love them to make an AAI collections.

[@blusama_]

AAI1 has one of the worst cases in the series imo AAI2 was pretty good tho

[@banyu123]

@@blusama_ yes, the consensus is that AAI is part of the worse in the series, while AAI2 is part of the best, unfortunately AAI2 will feel incomplete without playing the first one.

[@blusama_]

@@banyu123 Oh yeah sure, I agree It's better to play both to know everything I'm just still a little salty at how needlessly long was the last case in AAI1

[@cowboyoctopus2738]

@@banyu123 It's like the Terminator

[@nbewarwe]

My favorite change between the old games and TGAAC: old games: "Who is this mysterious new person? They have such a familiar presence. Their shape and mannerisms are so similar to someone else that we met before and has been absent for at least two chapters. Who could it be?" TGAAC: "Kazuma! What are you doing here? We all thought you died! What's with that weird mask?"

[@TheGreektrojan]

TGAA does a good job of not insulting your intelligence in that way. When you realize something as a player, the game almost immediately points it out/brings it up instead of making your wade through 15 mins of filler and red herrings before you can actually raise the real point.

[@KWBR1123]

ITS DON TIGRE

[@Sigma-xb6kn]

Oh, I hate 1-3 with a burning passion because of that little bent piece of the fence. The moment I saw that I had a good guess what happened, yet the game refused to even acknowledge its existence until the end. Compare that to case 3 of TGAA and when they give you the "M" on the dagger they immediately tell you that it's not a "W". They know what you think and respond to that.

[@Jay-ch5xu]

I was watching NicoB's LP and someone mentioned to him something interesting. There's this 'no spoiler' problem of Ace Attorney. It basically means, to avoid spoilers in the other entries, they completely gloss over it in the other games, with exception to certain events or characters. It's why Phoenix keeps acting like a rookie despite all the development he got over 5 games. It's why certain key events or cases never get brought up ever again if it's not needed, even if it's supposed to leave a lasting impact on the characters or setting. As soon as the game is over, they have to act like it never happened in the next entries to prevent spoilers. I think that's related to this accumulated history issue. That no spoiler rule might as well be an assurance that every game will have this...disjointment between the history and development of the characters over each entry. Even in DGS, this problem is actually there, albeit...not as bad, but still there. Looking at you, a certain case in DGS2 that definitely happened but treated like it never did until that point.

[@qwiikry699]

I think its excusible because TGAA1-4 and TGAA2-2 were supposed to be one but it was cut in half because of the 3ds' limitation. I mean you could see 2 dudes in case 4 that i will not mention that are not related to the case and never brought up until resolve case 2

[@antimatter3084]

Sure, it was rather jarring that 1-4 was hardly mentioned until later into 2-2 despite taking place back to back but they were still 2 fully featured cases despite that, and I say while I like 1-4, 2-2 is far better.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

I feel like they should at least make vague references to previous events

[@qwiikry699]

@@cosmicspacething3474 Ace attorney no spoiler rule sadly, thats why Phoenix acts like a rookie no matter how many trials he appears in. The damn no spoiler rule.

[@l.n.3372]

In game, they claimed that Herlock forbid them from discussing the fake Shakespeare case afterwards. But yeah, it's a silly excuse. Obviously, they should have acknowledged this case in game 1 since it happened back to back in February during that year.

[@TheRiotDX]

Having just finished TGAAC myself, I felt the same way about it. Previous games in the series felt like they were bordering on something great, but always ended up falling far short of that mark. This one duology has managed to not just reach, but exceed those expectations of what previous games only hinted at.

[@fernix02c26]

I think we can all agree, that no one else except Shu Takumi knows how to handle his series in the best of ways

[@Nixahma]

personally, Van Zieks and Edgeworth are *almost* equals to me, Van Zieks just gets the edge because he doesn’t play dumb tricks like the autopsy report. One particular thing I like is the knife in case 3: he had it all along, but he chose to present it when the witness mentioned it instead of before, likely to avoid leading the witness. not to mention he played the shit out of naruhodou in case 5 with the coat. i’ve also noticed that a lot of the prosecutors (read: all) act like they don’t expect opposition. like they expect their argument to be flawless; hence, when you point out a flaw, they (over)react by a large amount. as someone who expected this from Van Zieks, it was honestly unsettling when he gave the Van Zieks equivalent to a shrug (nothing) and just continued. Van Zieks is the only prosecutor I feel like protag has an actual chance of losing against. it honestly feels like his usual reaction to Naruhodou is “the fucking *audacity.”*

[@danielsher5439]

This isn't a comment about the quality of the Games, but I see a lot of people sleep on the first game as "the one that sets up the other". while it is true that it suffers from being that, having to set up not only plot but introducing characters as well, I think I should list what I loved about the first game. So major spoilers: The way it breaks so many traditions: The tutorial is 4 hours Your mentor dies and doesn't come back The second case doesn't even have a trial The second trial sees you letting your client get away with murder The prosecutor doesn't have a perfect record The prosecutor doesn't assault you The prosecutor doesn't lead witnesses or pull any tricks The judges are reasonable and don't go on tangents There are consequences from previous story elements that carry over from case to case We get to see actual development of characters An assistant that actually helps you by utilizing the law Characters address clues on site rather than saying the bare minimum How fewer suspension of disbelief moments there are thanks to actual rational explanation. Van Zeiks typical prosecutor Animosity explained by racism for example. Typical ace attorney traditions aren't there for the sake of just being there, it makes the game feel less like an episode of ace attorney In terms of writing: The game does far more with its premise than in the original. Instead of you simply being a lawyer who defends their client, you're a pioneer in a growing field amidst a radical, sweeping cultural revolution. It gives the game a far grander scale without being disingenuous, like how Kura'in felt too far across the line It also builds its world by drawing from real world historical events and culture It presents themes of dissolution and class disparity quite subtly, and isn't overbearing in presenting its criticism and satire of London Ryunosuke actually gets an arc, from rookie to first timer, to doubting himself, discovering himself, and finally into full on resolve. I'm not into writing that much but I think this resembles the hero's journey story Ryunosuke as an MC is far more realized and expressed himself more often than others The filler dialogue is super charming and has payoffs in the second game. It utilizes cultural differences to allow characters to explain to one another and deepen the world and the backgrounds of each character The world is so effortlessly shown to you and built around you, no doubt in part thanks to the historical setting. You come to learn of Londoners culture and habits and worries How much more refined the narrative and trial build up and climaxes are, utilizing narrative tension perfectly for its big payoffs. Apart from the first case culprits are often far more well realized, and side characters all seems to have a place in the world rather than being one note. Cases have a better single line of logic, no flying bodies or replicated crime scenarios or ziplines The plot doesn't revolve around the typical "uncover the past" story I'm not a Sherlock Holmes fan, so I don't know many of the references, but this incarnation of him had the right balance of obnoxious, endearing, mysterious and serious. The game feels like a modern classical-style tale as a result In terms of presentation: Compared to Dual destinies, which tries to emulate the sparse animation of the 2 games, this game chooses to lean in to its 3d presentation and gives everyone smooth animations They nailed the visual style and music so perfectly in this first game The limited music is used for much greater affect and atmosphere Everything just looks more appealing than in the trilogy The visual, musical, and narrative improvements make the slow moments enjoyable, the tense moments more nerve-wracking and make the absolutely bombastic, climactic moments all the more exciting and immersive. The second game stand on the shoulders of the first.

[@lachd2261]

The removal of the supernatural elements, and the real world 1890s setting, absolutely brought this to life. I particularly liked the technological aspect of it - how you couldn't use certain types of technology because they didn't exist yet (eg fingerprints), or were so new they weren't legally recognised (eg blood type reactions). Whenever they leaned into that premise, I absolutely loved it. It forced you to consider how else you were going to solve the case if you couldn't rely on forensics - using testimony, thinking about contradictions and motive. Arguably they could have leaned in even harder - there were some occasions where they temporarily abandoned that premise - I was a tad dismayed to see colour photography in late-victorian era London, for example. I feel like the next game could lean into this "restricted by lack of technology" premise even more - perhaps they could explore precedent-setting cases in Japanese courtrooms during the Meiji era.

[@swagathan5]

hOlOgRaMs

[@popopop984]

@@swagathan5 That was the greatest scene in all of ace attorney, Mr. Herr Forehead

[@linhero797]

I mena. Colored Photography is a lot older then you might realize. Just like how Photography is older then people realize. The first Colored Photo was taken in the 1860s I believe. A gew decades before TGAA is said to take place.

[@oopskid]

I couldn't agree more about the setting and lack of forensic evidence (mainly fingerprints). I personally think it had a big domino effect on the writing of the game and I'd even argue it helped keep a lot of Ace Attorney's (negative) courtroom shenanigans out

[@agusinfinite2036]

yeah i think 90% of the cases will be solve instantly with fingerprints,dna, etc. The writers had a lot more freedom

[@OriginalGameteer]

The only shenanigans we need are Van Vieks' wine throwing and his leg slam.

[@iantaakalla8180]

It is the classier version of catching coffee then throwing coffee at Phoenix.

[@alarmlessRifleman]

Takumi is a genius writer. There's no words to describe how much he influenced me, how much he has shown to me. Character development, relationships between people, storyline, plot twists, phylosophical motifs incorporated into the plot... The first Ace Attorney trilogy (or the "Phoenix trilogy") and Ghost Trick are absolute masterpieces. I don't really complain about Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice though, not as much as others usually do. I love Dual Destinies' plotline and how its core cases (the first one and the two last ones) unfold the bigger story. I just wish "The Monster Turnabout" wasn't here. And Athena. Because let's be real, she was only added to the lawyer team because of being involved with the Phantom case. They didn't make her a *character*, a person, a human being. As for the Great Ace Attorney... I fully agree with the video. I have finished it only yesterday and am still in awe. There's nothing to add. It's pure perfection and I *HOPE* they'll continue this spin-off franchise.

[@Oclur]

I disagree: Athena is a good character overall, and she has potential. If she got a Spirit of Justice treatement, she would be up there, so I hope it happens

[@willd1790]

Agree with a ton of this. I think the 3DS games are great in their own right, but they definitely suffer from a sense that they’ve hit the limit and need to scramble to come up with something different. GAA feels like it’s a cohesive setting that has a clear vision in mind, and I think that’s what makes the difference.

[@lavii3355]

As someone who is only now looking into TGAAC, I’m REALLY happy that they brought back that whole ‘multiple witnesses’ feature from PLVSAA. It makes being in the courtroom feel a lot more fun and seeing how different witnesses’ testimonies differ from eachother makes the case feel a lot more dynamic. Plus, it’s nice seeing the witnesses interact with eachother.

[@Carlos-M]

The deductions sections with (S)holmes gave me strong Ace Attorney Investigations vibes, and I think something like that should have been what the Logic sections in AAI should have been. Ok, granted, the abstract presentation in AAI vs. the very stylish presentation in TGAA do fit their respective characters, but in actual execution the former was rather bland and boring and the latter is extremely enjoyable.

[@meathir4921]

Do you mean Logic Chess or the Logic menu?

[@Carlos-M]

@@meathir4921 The Logic menu. Not that I think AAI's presentation is bad, just a bit bland. I'm imagining the Logic Menu as Edgeworth staring at various locations at the crime scene in an internal monologue if AAI ever did get some sort of 3D remake.

[@meathir4921]

@@Carlos-M Funny, I quite like the tranquil simplicity of the logic menu. Combined with the really relaxing song, it gives the impression of Edgeworth shutting out all distractions in the outside world to focus on the minor tidbits of info in his head. It was quite immersive for me without being a visual metaphor.

[@Carlos-M]

@@meathir4921 I did say it fit Edgeworth's personality very well, I just didn't find it that engaging.

[@meathir4921]

@@Carlos-M Yeah, that’s perfectly reasonable. Cool conversation

[@nyaronya]

I agree with many of the points you have made! Honestly, I think TGAA has become my favorite Ace Attorney series period, beating the original trilogy. Personally, I didn't get burnt out after binging both games one after another simply because I just viewed it as one whole game... To me it felt like the first game was the first half to set the tone and setting of the series while the second game was the second half with all "juicy meat", the PLOT. But yeah, I'm so glad we had Shu Takumi work on TGAA because the way he does storytelling really is amazing.

[@focalpoint._]

The thing is about this game, it doesn't feel like you watched the ending of a game at the end of it. It feels more like the bitter-sweet resolution of a great cinematic piece starring a fledgling Japanese lawyer who teamed up with a great British detective. In other words, a very unusual Herlock Sholmes movie.

[@16BitGamerCat]

So, multiple witnesses on the stand was actually an innovation from the Professor Layton crossover. In that game, it was common to see at least 4 witnesses at all times, and you even get to see 8 witnesses on the stand in the final case.

[@Klonoahedgehog]

I'm pretty sure the final case of That game has 10 witnesses, it was wild.

[@16BitGamerCat]

@@Klonoahedgehog you sure? I remember 8, with 4 more on their own stand afterwards.

[@schou43]

@@16BitGamerCat I played the game just a few days ago. It was 10 witnesses at one, although half of them had the same model with the only difference being that one had darker skin.

[@garedbi]

@@schou43 ah THAT section was hell of a PRESS statement, 10 options to press one of the correct mfs you should pursue

[@MrFrankcap]

I still love all the ace attorney games. The biggest point I can relate with is how they reverted all the progress and interesting ideas that Apollo Justice brought in (which I hope is brought back again in the next game, if it takes place in the future once more) adding the jury system is doable now that they've done it in 3 games, basically. But I'm fine with the rest. Athena is a fun character. The question of Apollo's father needed an answer and we got it. The end of the game (spoilers) has him leave Phoenix's office to go open his own back on the country where he was raised (which seems like big character progression) I also agree that Phoenix deserves to be treated as the legend he is. Period. But the formula of moving away while staying close to the world and characters that were built, has been done with the investigations games. Investigations 2 was my favorite AA game (before the great ace attorney came out) and it works because it adds to the world's lore, keeps old characters (Gumshoe and Miles as protagonist) but brings new ones and takes things to another direction. The issue with all this is that, for the longest time, Ace attorney games were dependent on Japan. And Japan only cares about Phoenix. They did not like Apollo's protagonism in Apollo justice. They bought but shrugged at DD and SoJ. They barely supported the investigations games. AND the first great ace attorney did badly. The second one was made with less money and was allowed to come out only because the story needed a resolution and they could make back the money with the small but acceptable purchases. HOWEVER, I feel like things are changing. The west loves AA. And I think we've shown our love with this game (I assume it did well. DEFINITELY better than Japan) So who knows? Maybe the franchise can be revitalized if Capcom focuses on the western audience wanting more games of this quality. That we don't need the same old to support the series.

[@dgshoe]

I do take some issue with the multiple witnesses mechanic, not because it's bad, but because the moment when you should question them is always blatantly obvious. The game shouldn't need to make you wait till a character reacted, and didn't need to make questioning someone else always the right choice.

[@henke37]

While I echo the concerns about it being obvious, I also think that it's under utilized. Having played the crossover where the mechanic originated, I can say that it was done much better there. I'd even go as far as to say that they wrung all they could out of it and should've left it in that game.

[@BigLord]

There's at least one occasion that I can recall where they don't blatantly point it out. You have to notice that something's off. I wish they did it more than once, though.

[@dgshoe]

@@BigLord That was smart, the thing is that it would be difficult to implement in the same fashion as a standard, because people further apart wouldn't be visible, and you'd need the game to hint you at them anyways. I say that the best way is to actively question someone on a topic that concerns them, when another person touches on it. Say, for instance, someone mentions a person currently not testifying, but someone who is acquainted with them is on the stand. You could pursue that second person on the matter.

[@simontchang]

Agreed, though ultimately I think you need some kind of "tell" mechanic to pursue another witness, otherwise the sheer number of testimonies and follow-ups possible starts to get out-of-hand. Ultimately, I like that Ace Attorney remembers its a visual novel and they've really upped the quality-of-live improvements in this duology to keep the story moving.

[@AtelierMcMuttonArt]

I'm not sure if the intent was to challenge you to notice when they had something to say, but just adds some more layers to the process- basically just nested Press testimony

[@Klonoahedgehog]

I just want to say that the multiple witnesses thing isnt new, its a carry over from the crossover with Professor Layton. Which i'm surprised they kept. Which is also where the fancy 3D camera movements in court come from as those were experimented with in that game.

[@idontcheckmynotifications]

Mate mate. The 3DS animations are incredible. Look at upscaled Citra footage or the iOS ports if you’d like to see them upgraded. The frame timing and designs are godly.

[@Beanzops]

Yeah

[@TheBestPikachuFan]

Excellent video! I'm currently playing through the first Great Ace Attorney game (on Chapter 4) and I'm just blown away at... basically everything! Like you said I have 0 complaints! It's amazing! You can tell when they aren't shackled down by the games current story and history they can truly make something spectacular and it shows. A small part of me wants the original Ace Attorney to continue, but it is what it is. Plus as you've mentioned, those games held them back and I wouldn't want that.

[@Mamba219]

Unfortunately, chapter 4 is where everything starts falling apart.

[@callinater6133]

@@Mamba219 BS. The game gets much better after case 4 imo.

[@HouseMDLover69]

@@Mamba219 yes, case 4 is the weakest case, at least for me, but case 5 of 1 isn't bad dude.

[@ArgonPSO]

These were two of my favorites in the series. The visuals also really stuck out to me; When I first saw the attic it reminded me of something straight out of Odin Sphere.

[@victorrabello4115]

beyond the things you said in the video, what I treasured the most in Chronicles is how ALL cases are linked somehow and contributed to the final chapter

[@Sasha-ph9uv]

I love the feels of poverty or struggling behind the beautiful imagery of London in the game, between the design of many of the citizens who show exceptionnably well they status (with dirt and patchwork on the clothes for the more poor to more refined clothes for the more wealthy) and the hint or information that you gained though the juror talk and interraction that can became suddenly relevant in your case also help the feelings of one giant city whith all it's habitant living together and not a "closed room" that I get sometime the feel with some case for other AA. And I think the game pull a better version of "the dark age of the law" concept for one of the previous game in my opinion

[@staticbystandermark1]

you singlehandedly makes me want to pick this first before NEO TWEWY. Thank you for solve my dilemma this past weeks!!

[@megarotom1590]

They are both very good so far

[@megarotom1590]

@God Slayer I do admit that is a definite issue with most rpgs although is that completely true as you can change the difficulty to earlier ones to get better resources so putting yourself in hard mode for easier fights and then easy mode for hard fights would probably negate or even invert the difficulty curve

[@kevinl4837]

One thing I noted was there was quite a bit of reused assets (payne as the first prosecutor, the similarity of the Grim reaper and edgeworth, and susato's suprised animations to name a few)| But, it was done in a way where it isn't blatantly obvious, and it kept the game feeling fresh.

[@ash1rose]

I expected to enjoy this game because I’ve enjoyed every single AA title. I did not expect to have it contend for my favorite and best AA title, nor did I expect my favorite character/prosecutor to change from Edgeworth to Lord van Zieks whom of course I now simp for. He is not only a thoroughly beautiful man, but a complex and excellent character. You have absolutely hit on the issues with AA and how this duology resolved them.

[@simontchang]

Great video. What really strikes me about Game 1 isn't so much the cliffhanger story details, but that by case 5 the game feels like it's just getting started when it's already at the end. Each of the first three cases establishes a new mechanic and the characters don't get properly settled story-wise until the end of case 4, so it's jarring to see things are already wrapping up so soon. This is of course mitigated by the new release, which is why playing the two back-to-back as one whole feels so right.

[@ddalgi6673]

I really do wish Shu Takumi was able to continue directing Ace Attorney games after the fourth game. To me, what was missing in the newer mainline games was good continuity. We never really got to see a good resolution to the events of the fourth game despite it being hinted that it would be continued and that was just such a huge disappointment when I ended up playing the fifth and sixth games. I really wanted to like those games but it just lacked the flair that I felt in the previous games as well as TGAA. That's probably why I was so blown away by what TGAA was able to accomplish since it was able to build set-ups and resolve them in a satisfying way. And they were able to achieve that by allowing Takumi to fully realize the story he had planned out for in this duology series.

[@javxion6576]

Apollo justice might be one of the worst AA games, but I have the firm belief that it's direct sequel would've been one of the best AA games. Just like investigations.

[@myfly4711]

Man, now I REALLY feel the need to play these. But currently I'm going through some Kill the Past games before No More Heroes 3 comes out and I still haven't even touched Nier Replicant. So many good games right now!

[@ratatoskr6324]

I made 2 videos on Nier that I liked a lot. If you ever get through them you should watch em.

[@myfly4711]

@@ratatoskr6324 I will, definitely! I already played and loved Automata, I feel so tempted to just start Replicant right now, but that would absolutely destroy my plans to prepare for NMH3 haha.

[@myfly4711]

@@ratatoskr6324 Oh and since I'm already shilling for NMH3 and Suda51; If you're interested in "games as art", give Suda's work a chance. Most of his games have mind boggling design decisions but are simultaneously amazing. I don't know how to describe it.

[@onlookerofthings6029]

From accumulated history to real historical events, especially that one escapade with Stronghart, Gregson, and Susato going back and forth with taxes throughout history and their consequences. The rabbit tax in Japan and how it affected the population, a real proposed oxygen tax in France (before the guy who proposed it got killed)

[@Dethimap]

I agree completely with everything here. Not only was what you said about Barok true, but there is another key difference between him and other prosecutors. He was not built up to be this undefeatable being. He was built up highly yes, but never the words "undefeated" were used. Yet at the same time, he portrays the same air of impassable challenge simply because of who he is, and not what people claim him to be.

[@GlacialSkyfarer]

"Nick this guy's a genius! He's been a prosecutor since he was five and hasn't lost since!" Later "Objection! The victim was stabbed, not shot, meaning that the defendant could not have possibly been the culprit!" "WHAT?!"

[@bluelagoon4]

I recently finished both GAA games and holy ish they ware so great! The game developer managed to revolutionise the concept while keeping the very soul of the AA main series. ...and I love Barok Van Zieks in all ways (never considered him a villain tbh), the way he throws his pricy bottle of delicacy to silence the public is priceless XD

[@cupcake18429]

SPOILERS FOR TGAAC2 AHEAD: Nothing against the jury system, but I was kind of burned out on it by case 2-3 (namely the constant "oh no the trial is over" except not really because you can easily convince the jury to let the trial continue) so I was super excited when cases 2-4 and 2-5 ended up being a closed court with no jury.

[@Olimario34]

i never found a problem with the case length. I absolutely love to long cases. one of the reasons Turnabout Revolution is one of my favourites. of course now nothing can beat Twisted Karma and His Last Bow/The Resolve of Ryunosuke Naruhodo

[@deimosphoibus]

One of my favorite improvements TGAA did (well, I consider it an improvement at least) were the breakdown animations. I think this is something the developers mentioned as well, but with the 3D games the killer breakdowns started to get waaaay more complex compared to the 2D games. It was almost like the killers had a second form that they revealed when they were cornered. TGAA did this with Jezaille Brett, but after her the killers have more subdued and believable, breakdowns (with the exception of the main villain.) I could legit feel sad for some of them, and I think that really works in the story's favor!

[@fierytigergaming8112]

Well, yeah, with the way that the justice system was during the first trial, she likely thought that they wouldn't try her because she was British

[@Brunosky_Inc]

@@fierytigergaming8112 I have the feeling that the more subdued breakdowns were a side effect of a lot of the culprits in the GAA duology being tragic antagonists/villains, so being too over the top wouldn't suit them. Case 1-1: Over the top breakdown. Case 1-2: A scared young girl who accidentally killed a man out of a terrible series of circumstances, a misunderstanding, and irrational (but understandable) fear. Case 1-3: The culprit is declared Not Guilty, so he has no reason to have an over the top breakdown. Case 1-4: A spouse who genuinely regrets her fit of rage resulting in an innocent bystander almost losing her life. Case 1-5: An asshole of a man, but one in pain for all the bad cards life threw at him (I'd still call attacking an inspector in court pretty over the top though). Case 2-1: Over the top breakdown (with the assistance of Ryutaro takedown) Case 2-2: Pretty over the top breakdown from Shamspeare. Case 2-3: Culprit is a cold, calculating, non-nonsense woman. Her breakdown being subdued suits her, just like it did to Vasquez on the very first game. Case 2-4/2-5: Do I need to spell it out?

[@ZE.brigitte]

@@Brunosky_Inc ... The second we heard about it, WE ALL WANTED THAT WITNESS STAND BREAK

[@SpinningTurtle66]

One of your community posts is what made me discover TGAAC, and I couldn’t be more thankful. It’s such a great game

[@Waver2268]

As someone who didn't had any knowledge about the behind the scenes of the AA franchise, im a little bit shocked to see that the franchise is currently on the edge rather doing well. For my part, i have a rather opposite opinion as yours, actually liking the idea, adding more and more chracters and their development to the main timeline. I can see that some people aren't fond of the lore getting more complex, but it was that very reason why i wanted to play that game even further in the first place. Of course there are some flaws within the modern AA games, like forcing a new gimmick for very game, the sudden Change of Phoenix from AA4 to AA5 etc. but i believe there is still room somewhere to make a proper game in main timeline. I finished TGAAC recently and it felt like a really fresh change, that's where i agree with you. The whole british ambience, the music and the main cast were so pleasant and competent, a really smooth main cast. Although i have to say that the witnesses and jurors were sometimes little bit too plain for my taste and that the user interface in the game sometimes annoyed me. But Overall every second i spent for this game was worth and i hope that this franchise can find it's way around.

[@beko7906]

Just finished them they are great, superior to main series in many ways but I think the only problem with them is cases are easier and predictable. I have never had this many correct guesses with culprits in an Ace Attorney game before.

[@kpychamp13]

To be honest while the culprits are predictable minus a couple but their motive and how they do the crime is awesome plus how connected the two games is so cool especially towards the last three cases connecting everything

[@beko7906]

@@kpychamp13 Thats true

[@CastroJr92]

I was able to predict a lot of the cases main perpetrators but proving how they did it is where the challenge is for me

[@kpychamp13]

@@CastroJr92 yeah that's was challenging too alot of the times I was thinking the right way but provided the wrong evidence and I wasn't able to fully guessed how the crime was committed which in my book makes it pretty hard first time playing

[@CastroJr92]

@@kpychamp13 yeah i found myself save scumming a lot because I presented the wrong evidence trying to prove how someone did the crime lol it really made me have to think and key in on tiny details

[@OnlineVideoSurfer]

I believe Takuro Fuse, the character designer for 5 and 6 (and co-director for 6) is speculated to be taking the director's chair for Ace Attorney 7. I don't think it's 100% confirmed, but I do remember reading that he was the likely successor after Yamazaki stepped down. So it's very uncertain what game 7 is going to be like, if we ever see it. Especially since I know the games under Yamazaki were almost written like a television show, with different writers working alongside Yamazaki crafting the scenarios while Takumi usually worked as the solo writer and director. I'm actually not as negative on Yamazaki as many older fans. Investigations 2 builds to a very wonderful climax, even if it's overly goofy, overly complicated, and overly written in very distracting ways, especially in its first half or so. And Spirit of Justice especially corrects the worst excesses of his era (while keeping his greatest strength, those suddenly dawning twists that changes your entire outlook on a character) while being, in my opinion, among the funniest games in the series. Some wonderful motion capture too, the breakdown in case 2 is among my favorites just for its...acting I guess is what you'd call it! It only falls apart I think near the end, but even among the current games I think it's very underappreciated. But Takumi has a very unique voice, always able to consistently tie in so many disparate elements into one naturally cohesive, clockwork story. Not to mention he has a very strong sense of character writing, moment to moment tone, and even subtlety that has been greatly missed until now. The Great Ace Attorney feels like his final say on what the series is all about, after nearly two decades of refinement. But that also probably means the future may very well be out of his hands too.

[@detectivehan5717]

i'm glad this game forgot about the no-spoilers rule

[@cosmicspacething3474]

What’s that?

[@HouseMDLover69]

@@cosmicspacething3474 its a rule where you can't spoil previous games. This is why Edgeworth in Dual Destinies is literally just the same as he was in the very first Ace Attorney game. Remember that arc Apollo had? Gone.

[@sophrosynes6392]

@@HouseMDLover69 In the Investigations games, when Edgeworth keeps mentioning his past and how he was reformed, instead of saying Phoenix Wrights name, the guy that reformed him, he just keeps saying "that man" and its ridiculous. Its also why we never see Phoenix in Ace Attourney Investigations

[@Zoe-hb2oj]

@@sophrosynes6392 Well actually, they're there VERY briefly for a few seconds on both the games in the background.

[@SuperMarioSwagger]

Something that I thing TGAA do perfectly and far better than the newer games is the world building and their character evolving, each case seem to have real impact instead of being forgotten on the next case forever except for a reference from time to time, Something else that is I think really nice are how examation dialogue are done, in previous game most of these were done for joke when they weren't important, here even ig they still do lot of joke, lot of them also make character interaction more likeable,my favorite being the durama doll in the office where all the time you examine it, Ryunosuke ask Susato to be the one that will fill It's eye, while iris will just say he can make more eyes, showing that dhe is just a kid and that she don't have the same culture,it's realy simple and subtle but it make the character more real and likeable than most of the thing being "look a rope" "do you think the victim choke on it" "maybe try it youll see"

[@SuperMarioSwagger]

@@GKplus8 Yeah funnily enough all Soseki cases are all but 3rd case DGS is really good at making everything important and maybe it's weird in a world perspective with lot of coïncidence all of it is so tied in the end it make far more enjoyable case and story that don't feel diconnected even with the first case

[@not_juano]

another thing, apart from what you've mentioned, that really makes me have barok as my favourite prosecutor, is the fact that he has no cheap, underhanded methods to get his way, like edgeworth and the von karmas who got the witnesses to say what they wanted to, or blackquill who set his bird on you whenever you were making headway on something. barok just blew holes through your arguments fair and square

[@detectivehan5717]

One thing i found unique about tgaac is that Van zieks was a defendant in the second game unlike other prosecutors always being acussed after 2 cases in every game

[@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093]

I really don't think continuity issues are the problems. Apollo justice has it's faults but I do think it gave the series a good direction to go in. Really it was just completely ignoring it that put it in it's bad position. I don't see any story reason why they needed to do so it was outside reasons. Fear it wouldn't sell good enough without phoenix as a protagonist, new directors getting overzealous with full control, or whatever else you could think of I think is the true culprits. If the series stayed with phoenix as more of a mentor maybe with an ever expanding agency we could have had a healthy future for the series without having to throw away continuity. (Assuming it could actually manage to sell)

[@namename2040]

The feature that allows multiple witness comes from a crossover game with Professor Layton. It's really cool that they kept that it was an interesting idea

[@peachii3124]

one other thing that i immediately noticed about van zieks is that he isn't treated like some revered, untouchable god in the courtroom, unlike most othe prosecutors. as much as i loved the other prosecutors in the past games, their antagonism relied on them being seen as powerful adversaries, and to accomplish that, the game would have other characters (the judge and witnesses, mostly) completely bend over backwards for them, even when that made no logical sense whatsoever. that's not how you write a character with a lot of influence, that's just a crutch. van zieks is different. he doesn't have the courtroom staff twisted around his finger, but he's still able to achieve a powerful, influential aura simply because he's competent. he doesn't have to rely on the judge and jury taking his every word at face-value, he gives GOOD REASONS for others to believe him. we, the player, don't have to be told he's a threat to us, we're shown that.

[@d4rkz3r011]

I LOVE Great Ace Attorney. I couldn't get over how amazing the music, better 3D animations, and the characters all were. I barely remember anything from Spirit of Justice but I still think about Great Ace Attorney even after weeks of beating both games.

[@milkflavored]

I’ll always be loyal to the original trilogy/characters, but I’m so happy that this generation has a new Ace Attorney franchise they can call their own. NOW IF WE COULD JUST ADDRESS THE APOLLO AND TRUCY THING?? literally my only gripe with OG AA???? I’ll take a manga or a fanfic at this point 😫

[@franbh94]

You are completely right. The characters feel more fleshed out and less one-dimensional beings, which is a plus. I found myself caring and looking after Susato. I have never truly cared about any assistant except for Trilogy Maya and PWvAA Maya (yep, that excludes AA6 Maya). I won't add nothing to the Witnesses' mechanic (I saw the pinned comment) but I want to add something about van Zieks. One of the things they did with him is demystify his carreer and it works. How? They tell you upfront that the defendants that escape a Guilty veredict, are killed. That means that *he has lost several cases*. Other prosecutors are always preceded with their perfect history, he is preceded with his imperfect history and repercussions. Also, I find that his first appearance, in the third case, is him at his best. He is composed and does not give out and inch. His comedic animations (chalice and kick) don't play out until late and, even then, he doesn't take out his cape until even after that. Every other case after that he either starts with his cape out or he takes it out in 2 minutes. Also, you don't get to see the man behind the prosecutor until the 2nd game, which helps the narrative. All in all, I love when people say: "Hey, I want to tell this story and it will be done in 2 games". "Don't you think that's wild? How about we do one first and, if it goes well, we will do the second?" "Did I stutter?" "Of course, sir. 2 games it is, sir".

[@TheThrillerJunkie]

The first game(s) in the series to not only break 3rd case syndrome (EDIT: besides Investigations 2), but also dead father of major character syndrome. In fact the one father of this major character (if you know, you know) turns out to be even cooler in the last cases and plays a big role.

[@javxion6576]

Investigations 2 broke 3rd case syndrome with the amazing "The inhereted turnabout". No 3rd case in any game tends to be the worst after it.

[@silvermoonlight1206]

When this game first came out in 2015, I was a bit sad bcs it was about a whole different character. But Im so glad I was wrong bcs I loved loved loved TGAA. The soundtracks are just amazing - maybe even better than the ones they’ve made in the original trilogy (though there were iconics one imo) I guess the reason why I loved it so much is the arrangement - the tracks feel like a whole orchestra arrangement - it’s so beautiful. I fell in love with the main theme right after I opened the game for the first time. Guys if you havent already, please fill out the survey on Capcom’s website where theyre basically asking us players if we want more from the AA series!

[@pikaace]

"Susato, unlike Maya, is more confident and is more than just cute comedic relief" Plus, she doesn't get framed for murder every other case, so that's a bonus

[@Brunosky_Inc]

To give Maya some credit, Susato is set up from the get go as a judicial assistant, which means she's already more experienced than Ryunosuke right from the start, while Maya has no background in law other than whatever experience her late sister's shared with her. Still though, I was happy to see that Susato never found herself at the recieving end of an accusation. Not that I would be against it ever happening, mind you; being framed for murder is not a character flaw after all.

[@rbxless]

@@Brunosky_Inc SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 5 If you count accusations of altering a crime scene, then she WAS accused: She created a peephole in the door with the cat-flapomat to see into the storeroom, as Van Zieks pointed out with this revelation in court.

[@GlacialSkyfarer]

I love how the music blends with the gameplay. Having the music slow down as you choose something to present during the dance of deduction, only to pick back up the moment you find it, the way the music will stop whenever you present evidence that actually matters, all of it. And that's music alone.

[@hiramzen]

TGAAC is amazing even before the localization, I've been waiting for it to come to the West, and lo and behold. Shu Takumi absolutely coming in clutch.

[@emmettracine8310]

Small note but you can thank Phoenix Wright x Layton for the multiple witnesses part.

[@marina2783]

I finished tgaa 3 days ago after playing it for nearly a month. the truth is that I had previously tried the original series, but it never seemed all that appealing to me. I would eventually forget about it and pick it up a few months later, but it rarely would leave an impression on me. TGAA however? That game was perfect. I would spend all day thinking about it and I am still awestruck because how good and fun it is. You managed to describe perfectly the problems of original AA series. Looking toward to see more content of you!

[@megarotom1590]

Two words: Shu Takumi Shu Takumi wrote the original trilogy and sort of Apollo Justice (that one’s complicated) but after AJ the team split in two: one team did DD and SoJ while the other did TGAA. Shu Takumi wanted to move on from Phoenix so guess which one he went with. Though I will say I think SoJ is very good and easily tops TGAA1 and JFA, TGAA2 is quickly becoming in contention for #2 with I2 (top is currently T&T)

[@keyaaghaei]

Man, blame Capcom for wanting to keep Phoenix in every game as the protagonist.

[@tiffyw92]

I'd like to clear up some misconceptions. The main reason Mr. Takumi came to not lead the development of AA5 & 6 is actually because of the development of the crossover game, Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. Mr. Hino, of Level-5 and director of the Prof Layton series, personally asked Takumi to help him direct this game, and after quite a bit of persuasion, Takumi agreed. He showed up at Level-5 only as an advisor, but ended up being swept up as one of the directors instead. But due to the inexperience that both companies had working with each other, the development cycle of that game faced many delays. Hino had come up with the idea for the crossover shortly after AJ:AA was released back in 2007, and yet the final game didn't come out until 2012. It did well enough, though sales number woes meant localization had to be handled by a different team at Capcom EU instead. In the meantime, on Capcom's side, the AA team had little choice but to continue the series without Takumi, as the series was at risk of dying off without another mainline entry. So they brought the B team that worked on the Investigations games, which also led to another complicated development cycle. And by the time Takumi had come back to Capcom, he couldn't jump right into the team since they had taken such a different direction since Apollo's game. So, his bigwigs presented him with a choice to direct his own game and he happily took it. The irony is that TGAA started off with rather poor sales back in its 3DS days, as the first game was lampooned with mediocre reviews thanks to the awkward marketing that somehow avoided mentioning that the first game would end on such a cliffhanger. As a result, the sequel suffered in budget and sales as well, and for the longest time, Capcom USA hesitated to port these games over and gave us no reasons why. But finally, with the games now being bundled and remarketed across many different ports, it was prime opportunity for Capcom USA to hop on that train too. And here we are, with the best Ace Attorney games to date.

[@megarotom1590]

@@keyaaghaei to be fair I2 and DGS2 are insanely good but failed to sell well enough to be localized (well DGS2 was a multi faseted issue although but the sales weren't helping) and the probable reason they didn't sell well is a lack of Phoenix. (DGS and Investigations had the same issue but both those games had other issues. Although I'm sure Investigations eh level probably contributed to I2 not getting localized as well) Long story short: companies often due what people like/what sells and Phoenix sells so also blame the ignorant masses.

[@megarotom1590]

@@tiffyw92 oh really, that's interesting I thought he wanted to just write a different story (though I have no doubt DD and SoJ would have been much different were Shu Takumi was in charge) Its sad that DGS2 and I2 were both amazing but flopped in sales in part bc the lack of phoenix. Like we blame capcom for shoeing in Phoenix but its understandable when you look at stuff like this. Capcom did have other reasons for not localizing DGS like Sherlock Holmes although the Herlock thing does seem like a pretty easy fix so probably sales was the main reason they avoided porting. Perhaps what changed their mind was the positive attention recieved from the fan localization though I have no idea.

[@keyaaghaei]

@@megarotom1590 Right, but then you're looking at Capcom struggling to find ideas until they take plots to the extremes for both Apollo and Athena. It's like Phoenix is just "there" as fanservice and a vehicle to move the plot along. Which is WHY Capcom refuses to change the status quo with him. They make so much with despite nothing.

[@Thorfinn96]

I feel the tense I didn't feel in the main trilogy and i love the scene when ryunosuke gets anger and says "IGI ARI/Objection" (i played it at japanese voice) and i love the Great Deduction of ryunosuke and herlock and the music is better than the original this is better than the original the characters are well written

[@hansgretl1787]

Makes me wonder if you've played the Investiagtion games, the Layton crossover or Ghost Trick. Yamazaki proved to me that he can write a great story in Investigations 2, and Ghost Trick is just about one of the best games I have ever played.

[@ratatoskr6324]

I'm currently playing investigations 2 and Ghost trick is on my list to play.

[@myfly4711]

@@ratatoskr6324 Ladies and Gentlemen... We got him! :D

[@hansgretl1787]

@@ratatoskr6324 Hope you'll do a video on Ghost Trick afterwards, that game needs more coverage.

[@thelastgogeta]

@@myfly4711 He's Going Ghost.

[@yurareigiryu]

Ghost Trick is what got me into Ace Atorney. AA has been a series I've always dismissed, but GT had such a captivating story and characters that oozes charm and personality that I had to have more. The 2d animations are the best I've seen on a handheld and is definitely top 3 games on the DS, a console that already has a great library.

[@tsurugikinjojoinmycult2100]

What first made me really love Van Zirks is that he soon made me believe Mcgilded was guilty after all nobody else could of done it and Mcgilded was actually guilty.

[@avoidthevo1d]

I don't know about Dai Gyakuten Saiban solving problems with the series, but Susato-san has definitely healed my soul :)

[@johntompkins]

Agreed. She's my favorite character in the whole series now

[@Klonoahedgehog]

Susato Is the best assistant.

[@__rikaisuru]

My day is incomplete without hearing her theme, that's for sure.

[@MynameisBrianZX]

As the video alluded, Athena was just a variation on Apollo: a rookie lawyer with a new empath mechanic and mysterious backstory. She had to share player time with two other established characters in her own debut Dual Destinies, and in Spirit of Justice, Athena has noticeably less time as a player character because it was a story written for Apollo in Phoenix’s series. I liked Athena and her story, but it was a shame that those were so compromised by series bloat. I bet this difficulty played a large role in resetting the series.

[@RetroNerdyGamer]

SPOILER WARNING . . . I'm halfway through the video but I just wanted to say I already agree with EVERYTHING. GAA just did the series the justice it deserves, while having amazing graphics, gameplay, music, characters, story, EVERYTHING. I was so tired of the weird/supernatrual stuff like with the Maya being possessed by Mia or some other character, or Apollo with his magic(?) bracelet. (Though I guess it can be attributed to him just being a keen observer? But they had to make it magic somehow I guess?) Then the mood matrix. It was kinda cool but it made 0 sense and honestly I'm not sure if it could really hold Athena up as we already have so many other gimmicks in the series. (I still love her tho) When I started playing GAA 1 I was shocked at how things worked such as multiple witnesses, pursuing another witness reaction to a statement made, and then the fact that the whole second case was literally just an investigation which really really made me happy because I was worried they might force a court section in there when it would make no sense... Overall everything was done in such a way that breaking the mold of the series just made everything better. I really hope for another GAA game, but I also hope we stay with it like this. I really don't want the issue of "accumulated history" like you said to, well, BECOME AN ISSUE. I would love to see more of Ryunosuke, Susato, Sholmes and the rest of them but honestly I'm happy with how things ended. It's a sad parting but I can always just come back to enjoy their adventure and whatnot down the road. For a few "bad" things though about GAA... I'm glad a lot of stuff was covered and tied up by the end such as the Russian teenage girl on the ship in case 2 where Sholmes mentions what happens to her, but one thing that was never explained was Inspector Hosonaga's tick of coughing up blood. I loved the guy, he was amazing and constantly supporting Ryunosuke/Susato but that really would worry me every time like "Hey, you okay my dude?". Then this is just a minor nitpick as I didn't really mind it but the first 2 cases of GAA2 were kind of... eh. They felt slightly like a slog and the 2nd case felt a bit strange in terms of continuity as it felt shoehorned. There was no mention of a 2nd case with Soseki being involved even though it supposedly happened between the first Soseki case and the final case of GAA1. This kind of bogs down GAA2 a bit BUT case 3 more than makes up for it and the fact that case 4 and 5 were pretty much the same thing just split into two for quite a few story reasons... AH! it finishes strong for sure. I think this really might be my fave ace attorney game, and I'm so glad I was able to get it physically on Switch because man... this is my favorite in the series and it's great to have it in my hands haha. Despite any issues it might have I think it has way less than the original series and that's because it relies on more realistic factors rather than fantasy. Also one final thing but I really loved how Sholmes kinda changed between GAA1 and GAA2 with him being more outgoing and wild/eccentric in GAA1 but in GAA2 while he retains some of that eccentricity... the wildness is replaced with mysteriousness, and it makes sense considering the context and everything else! Edit: I also want to mention that von Zieks IS the smartest prosecutor and the deepest one possibly. He has a reason to hate the "Nipponese" as he says, and yet he decides to let Ryunosuke help him in the last 2 chapters/cases, and then when the real villian behind literally EVERYTHING that's happened... he actually remarks that there's only one person that could have been the villian and OH BOY... That had me hyped because I'm like YES I KNOW WHO IT IS AND SO DOES HE AND I THINK RYUNOSUKE IS CATCHING ON which made it a beyond hype moment. I also like the fact of him being the Reaper of the Bailey. Dude, I was tired of the prosecutors with perfect records. Made things in the OG AA seem as though justice doesn't matter, just your track record. And this game fixed that making it where he had both losses and wins on his record but either way if justice was to be served, it was going to be served and that added to the mystery. Hell, both Ryunosuke and van Zieks concede points to each other if it means the truth will come out and justice will be done. And as a last point to my edit... I really really liked Gina. The way she transforms from a seemingly one-off character to someone so important at least for me toward the end was amazing. She went from possible one -off witness to pickpocket you see yet again and then she becomes a detective! (Apprentice but still) Her character arc had me sobbing toward the end of GAA2 because of what happens but I'll not spoil too much!

[@BoldNBrash]

I think Hosonaga's blood coughs implied he had tuberculosis. That's what I read in NicoB's LP comments.

[@quasarnova]

@@BoldNBrash I assumed that too but they never really addressed it but I guess at the time, no one really cared to. I mean, people died from all sorts of illnesses back then, TB being common (as far as I'm aware).

[@quasarnova]

That's Inspector Gina Lestrade to you!

[@ultimategaymer_]

I did really like both Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice, but if we ever get an Ace Attorney 7, I hope Shu Takumi is in charge. If anyone can iron out the problems with the stagnation of the main cast, it's him. As I see it, here's where things currently stand as issues: -Phoenix being included simply because he's the face of the series and can't be allowed to rest, and his AJ personality getting uno reversed -Apollo's convoluted backstory and how its still not fully resolved, as the truth with Lamiroir and Trucy still needs to come out somehow despite Apollo himself currently being benched from the Wright Anything Agency. -Athena getting shafted on the ability to be a protagonist in her own right and constantly playing second fiddle to Phoenix and Apollo, even in the very game she debuted in. -Maya's triumphant return, while nice, is a bit underwhelming as she doesn't seem to have matured or changed that much, *still* isn't the Master, and basically just being used as a plot device for other characters to plan around. -The need to add a new hotshot prosecutor each game means that old ones get left in the dust a lot. Case 4 in SoJ was honestly great because of Blackquill's return in a totally different capacity then what we're used to, imagine if poor Klavier got a similar chance to shine, or even Franziska? -Interesting plot elements being set up one game only to be ignored by the next, such as the juror system. -The need to add a new gameplay gimmick each game rather than focus on and improve old ones. Now I'm not arrogant enough to say I know for sure what the best way forward is, but here is how I might write a prospective Ace Attorney 7: -Athena is the main character. You play in her in every case, with Phoenix slipping back into a mentor role and Apollo being involved in a case connected to Lamiroir and maybe some other parts of the story, but make this primarily Athena's game. -Introduce the juror system, since we've seen how it works now with TGAA. Just say it took a couple of years for it be agreed upon and fully implemented after AJ's conclusion. Add the multiple witnesses gimmick as well, and if you must include gimmicks like the Mood Matrix, upgrade them to be more interesting and potentially apply to multiple witnesses at once. -No filler cases. As I said above, I liked Blackquill's case in SoJ, it was a pretty fun one, but it also had absolutely *nothing* to do with the main plot of the game. Ace Attorney narratives are strongest when each case in the game has some kind of connection, even if just a thematic one, to the overall narrative. -Don't add a new prosecutor, reuse existing ones who sorely need development. Gavin, Franziska and Blackquill primarily. I'd love to see Athena psychoanalyze an older Franzy. -That said, avoid including characters for what amount to basically pointless cameos. Gavin and Pearl are in both DD and SoJ, and they do basically nothing of note in either of them. If you're going to bring back old characters, actually give them something interesting to do and say. -Actually continue plot threads established in prior games. The juror system, who the Phantom was working for, the situation with the Feys and the Khurai'ins, Lamiroir, etcetera. Heck, wouldn't it be cool if Juniper, Robin and Hugh, now Themis graduates, were now involved with the plot as the careers they wanted? Juniper as the judge, Hugh as an understudy to Athena, and Robin as an understudy to the main prosecutor.

[@H4CKP4CK]

DGS is the best game I've ever played

[@Jordan3DS]

The multiple witnesses system was actually added in Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright, although in that game they had a LOT more witnesses on the stand at a time.

[@bladeofevilsbane5808]

(Minor Spoilers) Personally I believe that the main reason I felt a bit of dread starting the second episode of the second game was because it was a flashback. The burnout you felt reminded me of the same feeling I felt. I wanted to jump straight into what was going on with Ryunosuke in london after Ryutaro's trial but episode 2 came along it kinda felt like an abrupt halt.

[@Dharengo]

I would point out that while you talk about "The Limitations of the Hardware", these games were originally made for 3DS. And so was Layton VS Phoenix, which directly influenced the 3D animation style of these games, and is in an entirely different league from the mainline games in terms of graphics.

[@Докторпарадокс]

I LOVE the moment you find contradiction cause Ryunosuke will majestically point finger at the juror and that is just awesome

[@blackday1013]

There were like three or four times in that very first case where the judge tells you this will be your last piece of evidence. So many twists and turns. A great way to start off the game

[@luigivercotti6410]

Y'know, all said, I still think the highlights from the original trilogy are marginally better, but one think I can't deny is the style. Holy moly, this is an unbelievably stylish game. And it has a light touch too; The simple elegance that made the og AA games so approachable is still very much intact, and yet there is palpable kinetic visual spectacle in AA now, which if you think about it was never really a factor in the series before, with maybe the exception of Rise from the Ashes (my favourite single case by the way). My only real nitpick is that, given how this is more a single game than a duology, the final big bad somehow fell a little flat for me. I think maybe it's because they don't really have any meaningful personal connection to anyone in the main cast, and so feel too much like an "outsider", which is what usually is the affair in midgame cases. The whole finale does feel a little like 3/5ths of Rise from the Ashes but not as good, with 1/5th of the 1st game's finale (The Last Turnabout, I think?) but not as good, and 1/5th really beautiful original ideas. My choice prosecutor is Godot. Also known as "the correct choice". But Van Zieks does take silver over Edgeworth, on account of basically being Edgeworth, but cooler.

[@DEADISLANDMODS]

I finished the duology the other day and it was fantastic, so happy the games finally got a proper localization, for a while I didn’t think I would ever get to play them so I’m very happy I could play them :)

[@YukeWeiss]

I definitely think it needs to be played as one game as I found the flow of the first game really awkward. You don't really feel like you get going until case 4 of the first game. After that though, it settles into a really solid game, but you need almost all of the first one to set it up. Overall I think you're right an original series helps give the game breathing room.

[@frenzy2061]

The way every single case in both games is connected to the overall plot in some way is so good. As soon as I finished the second game I got so excited at the thought of playing through the series again because of the sheer amount of foreshadowing that's got to be there. It's going to be so amazing going back and looking at certain moments in an entirely new light because of what I know now. I never thought anything could beat the original trilogy in my eyes but god these games are incredible. Literally my only complaint is that some sections of the game are pretty easy but I can look past that because of how great everything else is. Im also still amazed by the fact that I don't hate ANY of the characters whatsoever. Literally every single character is entertaining in some way and none of them overstay their welcome.

[@FranzKarma]

I'm a long-time fan of the Ace Attorney series. I had started to play through every game until TGAA got released, I was only able to finish the original trilogy again, and was reminded of how much I loved cases like 3-5. I wasn't really feeling like replaying Apollo Justice and the 3DS games because I really liked how the trilogy ended, so I decided to just skip them and play TGAA. While playing the duology I finally understood why I was so frustrated with the mainline series after Trials and Tribulations, Apollo Justice just destroys the image that we had of Phoenix, then Dual Destinies and SoJ act as if nothing happened. In the end, it's just as you've said, Phoenix basically gets his entire character growth deleted every new game, while the remaining characters barely get any development at all. I really wish we had finished Phoenix's story in Trials and Tribulations and we got a new trilogy (?) with Apollo as the main character, and eventually adding Athena maybe? Also, oh boy, while the Ace Attorney series has been one of my favorite franchises ever, I couldn't think of any individual game that I could call as one of my favorite games ever (the closest being Investigations 2) and then I played TGAA2: Resolve. It's so good! I loved everything about it, I was kinda in the burnout from playing so many games back to back, but then in the second half of case 3, I couldn't stop playing until I was done with it. Cases 4 and 5 are simply phenomenal. All in all, I hope if we ever get a 7th mainline game that we'll finally send Phoenix home (send him to Kurain to train with Maya haha), TGAA showed that good characters can carry the franchise and new characters gave it a breath of fresh air that I desperately needed to feel.

[@superiorgamedude]

TGAA2 is officially my new favorite Ace Attorney game.