The Problems With Raiding | +300 Pull Bosses, One Shot Mechanics & Loot Pinatas

[@lightcred8758]

the problem with raiding is that the game engine can't even handle the bosses now without going 15fps in some instances

[@YoutubeMyn]

Ye they killed the performance in tww and they dont even Care.

[@dirusj4006]

25+ on queen is a pc killer. Even with proper settings for raids its bad

[@KennyFalmouth506]

i9 Intel, 64gb rab 4090. GPU and still having issues in a brand new PC with settings on low, Wtf Activision

[@YoutubeMyn]

@@KennyFalmouth506 ye you need a 7800x3d or 9800x3d to have go0d frames which is so sad.

[@SpaceHomie]

​@@dirusj4006MacBook M3 pro, 30 queen, 45 FPS.

[@Olejowy89]

The fact is that I don't even enjoy raiding anymore and when I kill the last boss on mythic I am more like "thank god it's over" that happy and excited. I have no idea why I am still doing that to myself :D

[@MikeyJ28]

That’s fine that you don’t enjoy raiding anymore, probably a sign to take a break from the game or do what 95% of us do and stick with heroic.

[@mangomariel]

yeah I have no idea why you are doing that either

[@Ecliptor.]

​@@MikeyJ28 I wouldn't mind pugging heroic every week if 99% of people who played this game weren't absolute shit at the game.

[@voodoo1069]

Biggest problem I was finding in my last guild was how much time is lost to reclear. The bosses rarely get easier and your kill times basically never got shorter. So every boss you kill basically removed 20-30 mins from future progression while the pull count was also rocketing up.

[@Varanaxi]

It should be hard because its mythic but if you have to use WA to kill a boss this means that boss is designed poorly. I hate to setup WA for a boss.

[@WeDemandGlitterhoof]

Genuine question. How does Ion still have a job?

[@onyonrong9244]

I think an easy solution to the difficulty curve is to have more bosses in a raid. Like two more. I think part of the issue right now is that Blizzard doesn't know what the correct way is to balance raid progression with just eight bosses while still having multiple hard fights for the hardcore of the hardcore.

[@akaorcram21]

The issue is that balancing the game around RWF just harms it in the long run. The amount of guilds like 200 stuck on Ovinax this tier and essentially doing in theory rwf prog as a normi guild, because not everyone had 3 dks and 3 warrios ready is insane imo. The worst feeling the RWF streams convay is that the casual wow player maybe watches it but is happy they do not have to deal with these bosses. Imo the last bosses that were actually loved by every single player are fights like rashok. It was purely down to the individual basic core mechanics of do not stand in fire and do big numbers. Later with gear you could carry your weaker players. It was imo the best fight in the last raid tiers.

[@shiminsun1068]

RWF is like 2 weeks, 3 weeks tops, ovi was nerfed in week 3, the vast of those 200 guilds will be stuck on kyvesa etc anyways, The issue this tier is that the first 4 bosses was easy, the 200 guilds stuck on ovinax should been spread out between sikran, rashnan etc. Also Kyvesa, court and queen is all bosses that guilds will need 200 pulls at least probably more on court and queen.

[@cat-vv9xb]

The ironic part is that RWF players are arguing for the game to be easier for everyone because it makes mythic raiding better, yet the mid-tier players are arguing that the game should be difficult, because they want their CE to "mean something", at the expense of mythic raiding being a chore.

[@anthonytgameaddict]

In my experience everyone burns out faster. Guilds like mine lose people because they are discouraged. We lose players and our comp goes to hell and it just cascades. How many tiers can guilds go that are mythic raiding and dont kill the last boss before they fall apart or start hating each other. Its just bad game design. Maybe the two guilds they designed the raid for can keep blizzard afloat.

[@CsStoker]

19:55 150 wipes later to reach p3 and the guild already disbanded, since half of the people cancelled their sub and there's not enough people to raid, that's how it happens nowadays. Mythic raiding isn't a challenging activity, it's just another chore at this point.

[@shiminsun1068]

The first 2 bosses of mythic should be loot pinatas, the more ppl are pugging and get into mythic raiding the better it is for the game imo. 4 might be a bit too much but if it gets more players into mythic raiding I still think later bosses being hard is a worthy sacrifice.

[@CasuallyEfficient]

These content creators have been talking about making high end raiding and pvp more accessible for years. And nothing has changed. The irony of 1% ers eating good and having options while telling the masses how their personal experience COULD get better 🤡 🌎 venruki I'm also looking at u 👁

[@onyonrong9244]

They need to add more bosses so that the pinatas can coexist with the uber hard ones without screwing up difficulty progression for guilds.

[@SupremoMancoSama]

mostly is that mythic raid needs 20 players..not more not less and can only do it with 1 group.. it's really hard to do it on your own time like heroic... being locked to 1 group and 20 players blocks a lot of people not a problem for youtubers but for normal mortals like us getting a mythic group is like applying for a job.. you have to adhere to a schedule and a place... they have to remove the "1 group only" and the amount and do it like hero.

[@joshoxley3869]

bring back hitting enrage timers being the hardest part about completing an encounter

[@iconqt9339]

That harp sound when you bring your visual aids on screen is brutal my dude...

[@rodrigoferreira4957]

Nah Izen, leave mythic puggin alone, whoever chooses to have a part time job in last bosses are doing it by theyr own choice... Can't the average Joe have shit in this game?

[@chiefputty]

I think the only answer is to go to a 10 boss raid. First few can still be "one shots" or puggable, then a linear scaling difficulty after that.

[@MrEnoxide]

i kinda wish WoW went the ff14 route and made heroic drop myth track gear and make mythic purely a cosmetic, weapons gear achievements wtv we already have a extremely attainable way of getting myth track gear meaning for the most part heroic isnt rlly worth it unless ur playing the rng machine for tier or special trinkets and items, if mythic was cosmetic no one would care if a boss takes 5000 pulls to kill but when ur trying to get a myth track seal of the poisoned pact cause its bis well its not fun

[@SzilykeZ]

Lets point out the actual problem. Not a single boss should require WAs to be killable. WAs are not part of the game they are part of an addon which should make the game easier not completely dependant on it. Even hc needs WAs. Bosses should have hp checkpoints, 15 minute fights are not fun if you have to wipe 300 times at 12 minutes in. The game doesn't feel like a game anymore that's the issue. I gave my guild up and I was a raidlead and gm. 24/7 recruiting then raidcds and actual raid while being and adult with a full time career. I miss getting CE but blizzard is a dumb af company that pushes players away.

[@nymphia21]

My casual guild is having the same problem in heroic, week 10 and we can't get past p1 of queen, and now there's 0 signups for raids, roughly 120 wipes total, even the raid leaders (myself and the guild master) are burnt out

[@manuelius6306]

As a new mythic + Player. I dont understand why everyone wants everything to be easier (getting gear, etc). Imo if people do hard content (high m+, mythic raiding) why should they not get the best gear? Isnt that just fair. My. Problem is more the "stupid" Grind due to rng and Tank and heal Scarcity, key depletion and toxic / leaving players.

[@phillipschmidt6295]

I live in Iowa, and you're dressed for our weather. We are at 13 today 😀

[@Peanutbeards]

More and more mythic raid is turning into a job than a fun game. I don’t stream or care to and I don’t make money like a job from WoW. I play this with my friends as a GAME to take my mind off my job.

[@FillerAccount818]

ONE SHOT MECHANICS ARE NOT GOOD THEY ARE SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[@whereisthesurvivalhunter9525]

We don't need Classic, we already have the Vanilla experience on Retail 🤣

[@jamesdixon4232]

The difficulty of raiding needs to be reduced dramatically. Plenty of CE achievements along the way but some bosses being nerfed by a 16% dmg buff and half their abilities removed spread across a few mo the is stupid as fuck.

[@gymlife408]

Don’t know why but they’re gradually removing fun from this game .

[@rpgking92]

how are you guys STILL raiding?!? must be at 7000 runs by now no?

[@SuperAp0calypse]

Bungie with Destiny 2 just made the raids for everyone, but limited revives and made the bosses be over the level of the player - check world first Destiny 2 raids, and theyre done in like one weekend lol. Its not like people dont watch them on twitch or whatever either.

[@timh694]

I both raid CE and pug mythic on rat alts, I think the solution is somewhere in between. We don't need have 1 pull bosses, but spreading it evenly is also kind of silly. make it a ramp that starts at the first boss not 1/2 way into the raid. so maybe like 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 200 where the difuculty ramps consistantly

[@musaxhogas]

RWF should be on a private server and if you want to participate you can sign up, and that private server should be balanced differently from regular mythic and be overloaded with abilities and mechanics so that they get to have thier puzzle to solve. or it could be the same mechanics but with raidwipe aspects to them. idk, just stop designing with the 0.01% in mind rather than the other 99.99 percent.... Id rather have incremental difficulty (amount of wipes/tries based on an average guild), like maybe 30-40 tops on the 2-3 first bosses, to 60-100 on the 3-6 and 100-150 max on bosses 7+ (on average). that way its not impossibe for pugs to learn the first 3-4 bosses and can get loot, but its also not just a fucking chore, or a requirement to use WA or other addons to make the fight manageable for the average player. I like just needing WA for a nicer UI for my class or to make DBM show nicer timelines for the next ability upcoming, but god damn this season that more or less requires WA and macros to even keep track of abilities or so you dont overlap 5 kicks or miss an eggbreak is just dumb. People will lose interest quickly if its too easy, but they will lose it equally hard if they feel like they are just hitting their head against a wall. Blizzard should be scared to lose our overall interest, not because the last 2½ months of the patch is boring and because more than 15% of players have gotten CE. There are so many that dont even attempt mythic because of the elitism, many just choose to stay on AOTC because of this. And even then, it would only be the top players that will get bored because they beat it in a week or 2, a majority would still probably need all or most of the time to get CE. And they'd be incentivized to keep going until that final week rather than being disheartened halfway through because they still cant beat boss 5....

[@TheeSeeker]

This is an MMORPG you should go make friends. And not try to pug the hardest content into the game. Find a guild that will prog the entire season even if it takes 1500 wipes. A race to world last guild is better than any pug.

[@musaxhogas]

@TheeSeeker oh I am in a guild and am doing just that, thank you very much. Doesn't mean that the current difficulty is good. Scratch that, it's not a difficulty, it's just cognitive overload which players that play this game as a job has time to deal with and learn or make their own custom WAs to simply things. The average guild raider, even the mythic raider doesn't have the time to invest. People have lives outside of Wow and are usually willing to spend about 3ish hours about 2x times a week to kill and progress on any bosses. And even then, people are not 100% focused all the time because fatigue builds up. Even more so when it's the 87th attempt and morale is already low. It just has a knock-on effect of someone eventually getting bored and quitting the raid team for the season which means we gotta take someone new who has to learn and at least have 10 wipes before they start making flawless phase ones. My last post wasn't in terms of pugs, it was for guilds. I just briefly mentioned pugs to say that the first bosses can usually be beat even by pugs. Even more so if they are designed to be easier so that pugs without voice comms can do it too. Also "but muh MMORPG" isn't the argument you think it is. The key word in the acronym being GAME, as in its supposed to be fun and engaging and most definitely beatable without any extra tools (addons) by just playing the game and progressing. Not a fucking job that only a miniscule part of the player base gets to experience. What's the point of even developing a part of the game that only less than 1% get to see? A fucking waste of effort is what it is.

[@TheJackTVs]

raid easier , loot rarer = easy win

[@av1330]

The issue with mythic raiding is that the jump from Heroic to Mythic is far wider than LFR to Normal, Normal to Heroic. This is what I would do. After the first 100 guilds clear. Super heavy nerfs and grant those players in that guild who cleared at least half the raid all a special title that only they can have along with a special tabbard or something. Then heavy nerfs looking at the average Heroic raiding guild performance. From there look at what the average full clear Heroic guilds can do in two months. The first 3rd try to make it so bosses take on average 25 pulls. The mid bosses 75, late bosses 150 and the final boss 250 pulls.

[@kacey69]

With crafting, the vault, and just upgrading hero shit to max ilvl, you can get enough gear to push high m+ without ever stepping foot in raid. If they made it 10-man and the community didn’t keep people out super hard then I would try it. Until then, no thanks

[@dane-train]

Mythic raiding should be aspirational. The best gear should stop at heroic and mythic should be try if you want. People don’t like the difficulty of mythic raiding because they HAVE to do it to get their BiS trinket.

[@CsStoker]

I completely agree, mythic should be cosmetic rewards, something that gives you bragging rights

[@steiige]

that harp sound has got to go, it's insanely loud. maybe turn it down in the future?

[@MikeyJ28]

I don’t really understand why people feel so entitled to mythic gear. Player power has continued to skyrocket over the weeks, if you can’t clear Mythic at this point, the gear will be irrelevant soon anyway.

[@FreggeLock]

It is relevant in other game modes, mainly m+, which doesn't really give enough rewards to be a self-sufficient game mode.

[@LATHSPELL70]

You are high as fuck. There is no one on the face of the planet that wants an 85 pull first four bosses. 1-5 pulls on first two bosses, 15-20 on 3/4, 50 on the end wing bosses 100 on penultimate, 100-200 on last. The raid is just too hard for too long. They obviously need to nuke the harder bosses earlier. They basically closed the hall of fame overnight with nerfs.

[@DropbearKev]

Needs to be easier i agree, just make the game fun. I'm fortunate enough to be able to put some good hours into the game but I feel for my friends who cant keep up with the content

[@stanjd]

Blizzard is battling weakauras which absolutely bones people who dont have them. Blizzard trying to make wow an esport is whats killing the game.

[@Soulessdeeds]

I quit mythic raiding. I just pound M+ with friends and do heroic pugs. Usually first 6 bosses for vault. Buy a full heroic clear for loot table unlocks and then just do keys after that. Simply because the end bosses for the last few raids just aren't fun. Raiding is no longer for people who aren't in top guilds selling carries.

[@vaeell6532]

Bring back 10 man please.

[@ZuvGzgz]

Insane mechanics that require WA are at fault the end You can pug first 4 bosses because tjey habe no real mechanics Compare them to princess where one person standing in the wrong spot is a wipe in a fight with 20 aoe spells per second

[@moonowlgames]

Dont know from where you got the numbers of wipes per boss. 1 1 1 1 for the first ones? Pretty sure that Silkran and Rashanan took more tries than just one.

[@chiefputty]

Liquid killed the first 4 in one pull.

[@TheeSeeker]

Those are RWF numbers where liquid went into mythic and killed the first 4 in 30 minutes.

[@Caffrof091]

This season / new expansion was cool and all but this raid and expansion actually made me quit the game, was surprised to see any of these news of WoW to be going on still

[@RenascorTv]

Balancing around WF Race is the worst decision Blizz has ever decided on LOL

[@D2Mephisto]

I need a hoodie like that, cuz it's cold as all hecking heck here where I live in the midwest =( I want it to be warm again! lol

[@billflynn9962]

holy crap man answer your phone.. also who cares about race world first... let the sweaties go sweat and make a decent raid

[@GamerboyAlex]

Damn I'm third

[@TheZackzable]

FIRST

[@BobbyRoby]

first

[@BollyWonka]

Cryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy mythic raiding is fine, it just isn't for plebs.

[@Flowz97]

I think so too, no casuals ever killed the last bosses in the hardest difficulty in wow history… why change that, why everyone should be abled and get every item. They dont need Mythic spymaster for a +10key

[@Choppy1]

what purpose did this video serve rofl 20min ramble for what?

[@shadrsabirov6412]

the benefit of having 4 easy bosses is that i dont have to spend a lot of time on stupid raids and play the actual content of this game which is mythic+

[@E-sportsCourt]

Please just develop skills. Most of wow. Don't Stand in shit. Second press your buttons properly........ thirdly do mechanics. Work on that and get better stop asking to lower the difficulty of content

[@Fr0Z3n64]

found the unemployed always online dude.

[@thehandle711]

@@Fr0Z3n64 Blizzard themselves have said they failed at balancing for this raid, but at this point boss difficulty isn't really an issue. If your guild isn't killing a certain boss right now it's not the bosses problem.

[@E-sportsCourt]

@Fr0Z3n64 Brother if you are ok with them just lowering the difficulty of something because you can't do it. That the most unemployed mentality ive ever heard you are literally cryimg because someone can do things in a few hours that takes you days Get your skills up in life in general poverty brain.​@Fr0Z3n64

[@liamdavies2823]

@@Fr0Z3n64 do you genuinely think you should be able to complete what is essentially a timed skill challenge if you don't have the skill? they put delves in the game for a reason

[@Dfs_Gamer_Guru]

the reason for simular numbers is because the same 1% of wow's player base still use wow as a job of course the same people are mythic raiding each year/xpack lmfao more numbers that you clickbait clowns dont add context too!!! to find out the truth you would need to know how many current mains across world have stepped into mythic raid most of the world's top 1% of players have 5 alts that they switch between depending on guild needs so toons going into mythic raiding is different from accounts!!!! show individual accounts or shut up with thee clickbait snippet numbers!!! 1% of wow's player base is doing top end end game content only!!!

[@victorvelasco1693]

Mythic raiding isnt hard bro, if you think raiding is too hard youve never achieved anything in a videogame

[@wvjeepguy8178]

Are you in a world first guild or you just doing completes after multiple nerfs? Yeah....thought so.