The Programming Industry has Changed

[@billykotsos4642]

that walk through the forest with your dog... vlogging about tech and the old coding days... damn thats a strong vibe...

[@wheres_bears1378]

I went through that faze, but now with AI coming in and me now working in construction. I find more satisfaction living in the real world and creating physical things that actually exist over staring at a screen all day

[@aaandrade5]

do you do manual labor ?

[@wheres_bears1378]

@@aaandrade5 yes like a trade, most satisfying job I’ve ever had

[@IRgEEK]

@where_bears1378 It's funny to me now but when I was younger I worked on an asphalt paving crew during Summers between school and at the time on the warm end of a shovel and watching people walk into the buildings where we were laying asphalt I was like, 'Sigh... When I finish my Computer Science degree I too will have a job where I can walk into an office with air conditioning too. Gonna be great.' I am nowhere as suited as I was as a young buck to do the work I did then, but I do indeed miss it now. We would create something every day that everyone could see and use and it was extremely satisfying. To this day when I go with my family back to our hometown it's a running joke how they KNOW as we drive around town I am going to point out any driveways/parking lots/roads that our crew paved. Many of them 30+ years ago and still looking great. I take great pride in the quality jobs we did so I TOTALLY get what you mean in terms of satisfying work.

[@T25de]

I’ve worked in service in trades and thankfully avoided working under the queens borough bridge with Adam eget. An old injury forced this dude to how on the coding train.

[@kewner8556]

@@T25de Sure hope you make more than 15 dollars a man now!

[@ZEE-es3jk]

If the industry stops hiring junior devs because of AI tools, the industry will eventually die one day, as there would be no more new developers to replace the retired "senior" devs, who were all once just junior devs.

[@TravisHi_YT]

This is happening in every industry, it's called the competency crisis. The old craftsmen didn't bother training enough people to replace them.

[@lorapora]

The market always corrects itself. The industry doesn't die one day. When talent gets scarce again, pay will increase and that will drive more people to pursue it.

[@AverageCho]

It's not a matter of seniors not training juniors or not enough people wanting to pursue a job in tech. We clearly see there are millions of juniors trying to break into the industry. The problem is that companies do not want to hire a junior, who will probably take months/years to bring up to productive levels, only to have that hired junior now leave for a better job because he's no longer a junior.

[@PuntiS]

It's purely a matter of cost. At what point will a senior hire cost more to a company than the work he produces? At that point, they will start hiring more younger workers.

[@bruh-rr6pl]

they will hire college grads instead

[@Camxlare]

The same way we transitioned from JavaScript to Single Page Applications with React, there will be another level of A.I. frameworks above React/Angular that developers will use as we advance into IoT and VR/AR. AI will automate certain business processes to save money and time. So, it won't be just about acquiring the most users, but rather reducing costs and time by replacing certain workers, such as those in the Marketing department. Having one person manage both the marketing department and the A.I. agents (A.I. copywriter, A.I. ad management, A.I. social media management) will become essential

[@caffeine2681]

I tend to agree with your assessment. I was hugely inspired by your channel and got my first dev job a year ago with no degree when the market was still hot. It’s definitely much harder now, though not impossible. I think a lot of people have realized that coding is actually pretty hard. And when the economy is down and ChatGPT codes far better than you do when first starting out, the motivation for people to learn just there. I definitely feel for people learning to code in this environment. I’m sure it will pick back up in a few years if AI starts to stagnate and demand for developers increases again.

[@akira357]

I don't care what tool you use...just stop being such an absolute corporate slave cuck. There is nothing prideful about sitting on a computer for 10 hours a day and reporting every fucking day your mental blockage and progress like a kindergarten kid to your boss....while he counting money and acting like his 15 minutes meeting is more valuable than your nerdy ass computer skills that's making him rack in millions from investors. Seriously, F U try hard keyboard slaves for making the field harder and harder each year because you dumb cucks just can't stop making yourself more available to your boss.

[@jamesdeepbreathe1213]

Any reason for AI to stagnate? I don’t think it will stagnate, it’s just going up from here. Devs will have to adapt to AI in order to get a job, imo.

[@Behold-the-Florist]

​@jamesdeepbreathe1213 That's the way most things go. You get this massive advancement and lots of hype but these advancements are usually things that have been in development for years. Then everything slows down as they look to find ways to level up what they had already spent so long developing. Sure the usage of AI won't slow down but the technology itself will have to come to a holt before the next big step is made.

[@jamesdeepbreathe1213]

Hope so, I am still early in the sector and the FOMO is real, would be nice to catch a break without worrying much. Appreciate the reply.@@Behold-the-Florist

[@hamm8934]

@@jamesdeepbreathe1213 there haven’t been any fundamental changes from GPT 3.5 to 4. They’re just throwing more hardware at the problem

[@nexovec]

The game-dev craze was crazy and it's a part of this trend too.

[@kilyos9212]

It's just ups and downs. The "learn to code" movement was terrible for us. I really wish we would stop promoting that programming is easy, I think this stems from our insecurity. We are professionals and should promote our image to give it the respect it deserves.

[@007LvB]

Agree so much! All these videos with "Learn Javascript in 20 hours" should just f* off :)

[@theastuteangler]

Everything is easy

[@JAlexanderCurtis]

You bring up a great point. Most people have been asking if software engineers will be out of a job because of AI, and as a senior level dev myself I kept saying no way. The stuff we solve everyday is stuff that an AI can't just simply do because it requires problem solving to even know what should be coded. Writing the code is the easy part, but is only 10% of my job. So maybe AI can speed up the code part for me, but even if it completely eliminated it, it would only be giving me back 10% more time and I have a backlog of stuff I would fill it with. So I have no been worried about AI at work. But you bring up something I never considered is that Junior developers are in trouble. Because AI is solving the work we used to give Junior devs. These are the simple problems where we just need a bunch of unit tests written, or we need this json payload formatted better, or we need you to replicate this API method in 3 places with minor variations. That is what Junior devs used to fill their day with and that's the stuff that AI is really good at (and will get even better at). So this means that the only people left in the industry will be people that can solve tough problems and the whole "anyone can code" days will be gone. The devs that build simple marketing websites or CRUD apps are going to be in trouble and unless they can bridge the gap to solving the tough problems then they might need to find a new career.

[@cacogenicist]

Yeah, people realized that it's _hard._ And not everyone can pick it up. I think the new hotness is cybersecurity -- of course there's going to be heavy automation there also, including for entry level stuff. LLM-type models could monitor logs at the SOC, and such.

[@starwalk3r]

Don't spend time learning to code if you don't want it to be one of your hobbies outside of "normal" work. You will not get a full-time job in software engineering anymore unless you are a mathematical/engineering genius.

[@nhanimaah786]

Exactly.

[@anon3118]

Sadly yeah…just another dream killed.

[@19HM98]

Now 5 years in, I'm a professional these days. With my stack(s) and tech of choice, I can architect and build whatever application requested of me. There's no value in going broader, since I have enough skill in enough buckets to be effective. The most economical expense of effort for career advancement appears to now be toward accepting stress and responsibility. I can learn more tech, but it serves no purpose other than discovering new ways to skin the same cat. Maybe I need harder or more engaging problems to solve. Anyone felt this before?

[@BryceCorbitt]

Thanks for the video Chris, I enjoy listening to your thoughts. I agree. I feel like there was a lot of manufactuered hype that's died down. I also think that's a good thing for the industry. We want developers who get genuine fulfillment out of writing code, and not just people who were told anyine can do it and it pays well. There were so may CS students I went to College (2017-2021) with who were just in it for the money. I'll admit that I haven't worked much with Generative AI, but from what I can tell, I can tell it will have a huge impact 5-10 years down the road. I also agree that most devs aren't going to be replaced by AI, but that it will be an expectation that you know how to leverage it. Similarly to how we expect Developers to know how to use Git for Source Control. Crazy to think we will be doing code reviews for something a computer wrote in the forseeable future.

[@christian-schubert]

Tried to thrive in the web industry once upon a time. Then the explosion in the number of new developers, accompanied by the introduction of dozens new trendy (and mostly unnecessary) frameworks for basically doing the very same things over and over again, as well as many small businesses not even caring whether they've got a somewhat decent web presence since social media is king eventually made me quit. Still checking back with channels like this one every once in a while. It's sad it didn't work out. Oh well, currently working on a hobby Javascript/PHP game just for fun without having to adhere to any trendy frameworks or conventions. So yeah, I guess the craze is over.

[@dranon0o]

You might be right that it's going to be even more complicated I already use ChatGPT like an intern for bash scripts when i'm coding on something else You have to give good specs though I do the arch, the complicated stuff but it's useful as a tool to go faster and really feel "augmented" in a way I think the bar to reach the minimum to know is just higher than before... and the standard to be employable is going to be higher and higher

[@aimanbryan1424]

The coding world keeps changing, but my darn Vim editor remains the same. 🤣

[@whatthefunction9140]

I might get 1 recruiter email per week vs a few a day 18 months ago

[@JAlexanderCurtis]

Yeah I have a lot of experience and I used to get many recruiter emails every single day. I'm talking about 2-3 being a slow day. Usually around 5 a day during the work week. Lately I have been getting one or two per week and they aren't all juicy job offers like I saw before.

[@tylerpatterson434]

It is brutal out there right now. Companies are not hiring. The few that are hiring are looking for unicorns. Super strict requirements. And they are getting hundreds of candidates. I am glad I still have my job.

[@rejectionistmanifesto8836]

Strike back against this system by NOT having children to be future wage slave and NOT getting married/start relationships which cause 100 to 1000 fold increase in expenses

[@tylerpatterson434]

@@rejectionistmanifesto8836 way too late for that. Raising kids is a far greater achievement than anything I will do at a job.

[@rejectionistmanifesto8836]

@@tylerpatterson434 it is but I'm not talking about us who had kids for our own selfish desires bringing them into a poverty trending world for workers as automation software, robotics, outsourcing, mass immigration of highly skilled cheap labor who are exploited, and more all lead to a small rich class with almost everyone else barely subsisting. I'm more focused in the innocent children we bought into this rigged world.

[@joegaffney8006]

The more experience you have with programming improves your google-fu which will translate to prompt-fu

[@sonOfLiberty100]

I used to say, software industry is changing every 5 years. But here is my take on this. The software industry is like a free market. The free market always regulates itself. Because we have now large language models, which can do amazing job at multiple task. The job industry has to shift. People who are not willing to change will lose their job. People with good prompt skills will be valued more. There is also a gold rush right now. If you have the technical skills to create a start up in the large language model (with a good idea), do it, that where the money right now goes.

[@master0fnone]

Muh "Free Market" lmao

[@DevlogBill]

Been learning to code since December of 2021 and I don't use A.I. it feels like cheating to me. But going back to your point on the market I've had some consultancies reach out to me from time to time. But what they offer are contracts jobs where they offer you a job for 6 months or maybe a year and expect you to up root yourself and move miles away to states like Dallas Texas for a job where there isn't any guarantee. Well, I think the next best thing would be to get into freelancing for most. Until some job opportunity appears.

[@everythingisfine9988]

People can earn just as much money learning a trade vs learning to code. Possibly more. And you don't have to be trapped behind a desk or compete with overseas workers. Why deal with the difficulty of coding with a certainty of a trade?

[@billykotsos4642]

everything changes... its all in constant change

[@MagyarUS]

There are huge amount of opportunities building applications that leverage openai or other LLM API’s. Not in as using to help code, but integrated into the app to do some task. And the senior CompSci guys are so used to building large advanced “tanks” and “jets”. Meanwhile LLMs and the small LLMS are like Land Cruisers on the African desert battle field, mounted with an Old Soviet era artillery gun. Just an analogy, but Land Cruisers win.

[@whatthefunction9140]

So many people just wanted a 100k job but found out the hard way that if you dont have the mind for it being a full time dev sucks.

[@cortarelva]

You have to be ready for long hours in front of a screen all by yourself. And that can mess up with some people`s mental health after a while. Especially communicative extroverts.

[@whatthefunction9140]

@@cortarelva you know you have been coding to long when you try to ctrl+f a physical book

[@rick-kv1gl]

that sound in wood is scary af.

[@Pavel-wj7gy]

Mark my words: as soon as the Fed rate gets back to pre-Covid times, the IT job market will be booming even more than before. Even with ChatGPT at your fingertips. Recruiters will be sliding in your LinkedIn and whatnot. The question is - are YOU prepared for high demand? What's for dinner? Damn, the Fed rate doesn't even have to actually be at the pre-Covid figures. The expectation of that alone will be enough.

[@13odman]

That rate probably wont happen again in our lifetime

[@hamm8934]

Yup. People acted like this in 08 and 09 and were decrying the dooms day of web dev with Wordpress. But look at the following decade lol. We’re loading up for another launch.

[@Pavel-wj7gy]

@@13odman It will. The inflation is already going down. I think we have reached the inflationary peak. Unless a nuclear disaster happens, the inflation will plateau for a brief period of time and go down. It's very beneficial for politicians, banks, industrials, households to have a low rate, because low rates ensure economic growth. The IT market will be even more insane than we remember it.

[@bruh-rr6pl]

I am seeing some big companies hiring recruiters right now.. Posting recruiting jobs etc

[@LukeAvedon]

Yeah, a bit of a bubble bursting. I feel very lucky that I broke in before ChatGPT and got to experience the before times. I feel like AI stole some of the romance. I dunno how much more productive it is making us, I don't think it will be 10x. Maybe 1.5x?

[@smithnigelw]

Chris, I agree with your thinking on this. I think your right.

[@TravisHi_YT]

Things always change, imagine swapping from punch card programming. Ultimately it's just a new toolset, there's people out there that can't even navigate windows OS. Imagine how frustrated those people would get once chatGPT wasted 30 minutes giving them bogus answers. Automated cars have been around for over a decade now, but they still can't drive a full journey without the risk of failure. That's the problem with these AIs, one broken step will lead to the complete failure of the task. There's always going to be a human that needs to be there to fix that broken step.

[@Omikronik]

I just finished university in Ireland. Basically its 50/50 solit between those who have something lined up and those thay dont. I got lucky and did an intenrship for a semester in my third year and am at that place but i also proactively apploed to over 30 places while in my final year. I got 0 responses from any of my applications even with the advantage of having experience in my CV in comparison to my peers that dont have any. Mlst of my friends that didnt land a job are basically all going into doing masters, other jobs or doing tech support or QA. Kind of a sad state of affairs over here, the world is your oyster if you are senior level but you are worthless as a junior. I cant even imagine what its like for people trying to get in here without a degree :( Edit to add to the linkedin bit: i used to get recruiters message me while studying and i would pass on my details for future reference, for the past year i have not had a single recruiter reach out to me even though i have desirable skills for the country im in.

[@jkramer666]

What country are you in?

[@JustSomeDude33]

I am still seeing quite a few opportunities showing up in my email daily

[@PankajDoharey]

Coding boot camps made their money though.

[@antonnovo695]

Hi!!! Wow where is that? Looks like heaven!

[@theoinfo3512]

At the end of the video you said, we should learn to code if we are good at it? But how we know if we are good at it without months to years of practice? I found learn to code movement the most damaging to my life. But I love your down to earth content.

[@kewner8556]

Your comment made me curious: in what way was it damaging to your life? If you don't mind elaborating.

[@hamm8934]

Idk my company is still hiring and has been throughout all of this. I’m in biotech, not ad tech. Aside from a little ripple when the banks first collapsed, biotech hasn’t really seen this layoff. I think a lot of these concerns are for those not in a specialized tech industry. I have friends in fin tech that also haven’t experienced many layoffs. I think it’s more so the market correcting for the over investment in ad tech during Covid.

[@kcdiazWTV]

Companies will just train their in-house coding AIs using the data from their senior devs. Then its game over.

[@fritzdeuces]

in-house is usually not enough. That's what Github co-pilot is for. It trains on millions of projects on github.

[@johnmd891]

Exactly. 100% agree with all you said.

[@user-td5gy2fh3p]

Can you gives us examples of “complicated projects?”

[@lardosian]

Microservices gets fairly complicated, hook that shit up with pubsub etc etc...not easy

[@R3AktoRMacedonia]

There were times when let's say a mechanical engeneers did all the math on paper, using only calculators for the raw numbers, and they did huge magnificent projects with their own brains. And they were appreciated as engineers. Today you'd just do a model and click 'calculate' and the project is done. But one project is not enough you must do many of them, efficiency boils down to quantity - it feels like conveyor belt, and the engineers have become monkeys that do the paperwork. This is so depressing, its not only the software industry, every job seem like this - just pointless...

[@ingusmant]

There's was a "learn 2 code" bubble for sure, tons of companies that only existed to give crappy courses and charge out the ass for it. Even during this boom there were many beginners who couldn't get a job. That's because most of the hype was artificial, the people telling you to drop out of college were the same selling you these crappy courses.

[@verynice5574]

I think the cooling off has way more to do with interest rates and the lack of VCs desperately seeking returns. You can get theoretical gains from chatGPT for easier projects or in the hands of a senior dev but it can easily lead you down a rabbit hole where you're spending more time getting out than if you'd just coded without it. It's great when it's great but it takes experience to know when not to use it. For any significantly sized project you're not going to get some huge reduction in staff because you still need to logically divide up the work and a ton of coding is about deciding what paths to take and understanding the overall context which the AI (so far) can't do.

[@T25de]

This homie here is Looking for work!

[@wilmerwalton5089]

Current AI technology is being fully integrated into the economy. AI technology capability will improve exponentially over the coming decade. AI assistants will and are becoming AI replacements. Any jobs in the economy that are white-collar and mid-level will be assisted, then replaced. Jobs in the entertainment industry are doomed in the short term. The software industry will be hollowed-out over the next 2 years as AI is fully integrated into software development. There are many benefits to be garnered from learning to program, but switching careers as a motivation isn't one them. It's too late.

[@nvictorme]

**NOT** Everyone should learn how to code. I'm glad I never misled anyone without the right skills into learning to code.

[@nvictorme]

The right skills: self-driven, self-taught, curious, common sense, love for reading and pursue knowledge.

[@martinlutherkingjr.5582]

What would happen if the wrong person learned to code? Cats and dogs would play together?

[@SamOween]

@@martinlutherkingjr.5582 They would ultimately waste a lot of their time

[@Camxlare]

Coding is mind numbing but it does teach you advanced lego block building mentally to put multiple compatible pieces together (API's, CRUD, Testing) to output a predictable result.

[@martinlutherkingjr.5582]

@@Camxlare That’s old school programming now. CRUD apps aren’t going to make you much money thanks to AI.

[@juanmacias5922]

I'm trying to break into tech, currently following the freeCodeCamp curriculum, and working on a bug tracker with a Firebase back end, do you have any suggestions for other complex projects I could leverage to have a better chance?

[@benfrese3573]

Write a support ticket system, just a random suggestion but that's pretty advanced

[@juanmacias5922]

@@benfrese3573 hey thanks man! That's a great suggestion. :)

[@fritzdeuces]

Don't waste ur time with projects they take too long. Instead contribute to multiple opensource projects.

[@juanmacias5922]

@@fritzdeuces that's a solid idea actually, I've been paralyzed from helping, but collaborative work is worth more, than me just typing away. (I think) Thanks!

[@carstenhansen3979]

Still Bayside?

[@realchrishawkes]

Yep. 13 and a half.

[@verynice5574]

Oh sorry but one more thing, "the industry" isn't really the hordes of idiots who watched KZbin videos thinking that'd turn them into programmers lol. There's a slow down in hiring but it's nothing compared to the slow down in the KZbin game.

[@007LvB]

Honestly, I think it's for the better. Uncle Bob explained it pretty well: "Number of developers worldwide double every 5 years, so half of the programmers worldwide have less than 5 years experience". There has been an explosion in the number of developers. And honestly, programming is hard, and requires a special personality and patience. Not everybody is meant to do that. And the IT boom of the last 20 years has probably given a lot of people false hopes. Things are going to settle a bit more. And all the clever people say that there will always be a need for skilled individuals... OHHH, and AI will replace all the programmers who think Javascript or Python are good programming languages - I CERTAINLY don't mind that!

[@pembenci]

can you do a video about HTMX? Is it going to be a trend in webdev?

[@AndrewErwin73]

liking the facial hair bud...

[@DanMan-mh4kj]

I like BLAZOR.

[@shajebkhalid7853]

I was going to ask for a virtual any job. But dang it ChatGPT! ha ha!

[@MrMaksuz]

Pls make new video about whole industry 30-60 mins Chris… just rant-freestyle

[@rickharold7884]

Coding rocks!!

[@kareemyoussef2304]

nice cope

[@markuscwatson]

This guy is so negative all the time. Can’t watch anymore.

[@theoinfo3512]

Oh you are one of those who prefer to be lied on all the time. Don't worry, there are many channels who will brainwash you into thinking how amazing AI will be for everyone and how learn to code has a bright future. Go there you won't be missed.

[@markuscwatson]

@@theoinfo3512 wtf LOL ok

[@markuscwatson]

@@theoinfo3512 btw, I didn’t watch the video, only the first few sentences (enough to see it was another negative theme), so I’m not sure where the whole AI take came from. Just wanted you to know so you’re aware that your interpretation of my response is way off base. LOL

[@markuscwatson]

@johntavolt7027 hey John. I can’t say for sure, but I’m a SW Engineer and I am not worried. I think of AI/ChatGPT as another tool. The world of programming and computer science is MASSIVE though, so little 2-6 month courses don’t really do it any justice. It will take a long time. Maybe that’s why the “everybody can learn to code and be a dev” hype has died down some. No short cuts. Lots of hard work and patience.