The Pros and Cons of Mixing Quiet

Justin Colletti talks with Jack Rubinacci about the Fletcher-Munson curve snd hpw it affects the way we hear our music mixes at different levels. See the full video here: kzbin.info...
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#mixingengineer #mixingmusic #fletcher-munsoncurve #fletchermunson #audioengineer #audioengineering -a-#musicproducer

[@SonicScoop]

► See the full video here: kzbin.infoaMXeakwJpuc ► Get free plugins here: gpu.audio/sonic-scoop ►Get Mixing Breakthroughs here: mixingbreakthroughs.com

[@jonpedz3862]

I really like how it was the concept being talked about. Mixing has so many facets about it, and i love to hear thoughtful approaches to it. hope to find more like this Nice vid

[@SonicScoop]

So glad to hear Jon! We’ve got a TON more like it. Remember to like, subscribe and hit the notification bell so you are sure to see them. Hope to see you around! -Justin

[@sm5574]

Another downside of mixing at a higher volume is endemic compression. By that I mean, at some point your audio interface and your speakers are going to start compressing the sound. They do this to avoid distortion at higher volume. (This will be more prevalent with less expensive and especially commercial-oriented equipment.) Also, take a closer look at the Fletcher-Munson curve. What it shows is that, as sounds get louder, our ears start to compress the sounds, to varying degrees across the frequency range. Notice, professional mixers say that too much compression causes ear fatigue. They also say that mixing at higher volumes causes ear fatigue. That is not a simple coincidence. If you mix at a higher level, you are hearing more compression than you are adding to the mix, meaning that the mix could fall apart when listening at lower volumes, where that compression is no longer in effect. I have heard this happen, even on older professional recordings. When you turn the volume down to background level, suddenly the balance is completely thrown off, and the mix becomes unlistenable. So always make sure you spend at least some time listening to the mix at a moderate level.

[@SonicScoop]

Thanks for the great comment. There is some good stuff in there. One little quibble: I’m not so sure your audio interface will be influenced by the SPL you are listening at in you room :-) On the analog side, running excessively high output voltage levels through your interface could have an effect, but this could be done whether you’re listening extremely quietly or loud. The most noticeable effect there would be audible clipping. Arguably this is similar to compression, but because of how these circuits are designed you’re not likely to get any compression out of the interface before it starts clipping, at which point, the audible clipping is the bigger problem! That said, there are some converter designs that might incorporate a soft clipping feature (especially on the input side, in which case it would be baked into whatever your are recording) but again that’s independent from how loud you are listening in the room. With all that said, I think you have a point! It is definitely true that our ears/brains have a non linear response to fluctuating levels, and this could be considered analogous to compression, and probably could have an effect similar to what you’ve described. (Technically, I suppose it would be a bit more like multiband compressor, which you hinted at too.) I’ve heard some say that rooms can have their own compression-like nonlinearities around level, but I’ve never got an acoustician or someone with a similar level of training or knowledge in acoustics to verify whether this is the case on a practical level. Will have to remember to ask the next one I se about it! Thanks again for the thoughtful comment, Justin

[@3D1ofakind]

​@@SonicScoopWhat a great discussion. Did you ever mention it to an acoustician? I'm curious if this is true too.

[@miladbarikani3591]

I was doing this for a couple of years without nobody told me to I knew kinda about fletcher munson curve but my main reasoning behind it was to make more headroom artificially to have a open space to do what I want freely... and I believe it's kinda help with fletcher munson curve too cause in the leveling you hear it better too and have kinda unlimited headroom

[@Lightyxxxx100]

This is gold. So basically always mix at lower volumes, so that you can focus on the mid range and it also forces you to get the Kick and Bass right without hearing it at higher Lowend Volumes.

[@sgfdancecompany]

Great question and great Answer!!!!

[@valleywoodstudio7345]

Important the SPL measurements are correctly weighted. A weighted will sound a lot louder that a C weighted measurement at 83dB spl. Make sure your meter can do C weighted for 83dB spl

[@TheFrankiejay]

Excellent piece of information. Thank you very much.

[@luklagrande]

this is interesting and I think it's related also to all the tutorials about mixing with NS10 or Cube Speakers etc...When I watch them I always ask myself "ok but if I don't hear low frequencies don't I risk to raise them too much?" 😅

[@SonicScoop]

My recommendation on that is: “don’t boost what you can’t hear”. If you cannot hear your low end, then focus on getting the mid range of the record right, and let your mastering engineer handle the low end. But ideally, you will have both: speakers that let you focusing on the mid range, and some type of monitoring solution that allows you to understand the low end.

[@luklagrande]

ty so much@@SonicScoop !!! 😊

[@saardean4481]

Mixing bass music with basslines that dont have many overtones is many times very hard at low volumes. Thats why i always use a sub. I set it a tad bit too loud so i can feel it without having the speakers loud. If i manage a midrange that still sounds crisp next to it i then i know it is only a matter of bass level control which i do at the very end. But yes , mixing bassmusic at low levels is a pain . At least for me

[@DVILAIN]

Amazing talk:)

[@SonicScoop]

Great to hear! So glad it was useful. -Justin

[@mosermichael4404]

My game changer was my monitor change.. I have switch from S2v to PMC 6.2 and the bass I so much better.. is next level by Monitor speaker. I can hear what I do in the low end so much better!😉 We you see not to low mixing in the level is better for hear the low end.. 👍

[@SonicScoop]

PMC speakers have remarkably tight, clean, resonance free low end for a ported speaker design. They are definitely a great choice for hearing low end clearly, and doubly so if you have a good room to put them in. I’m glad you are liking them. The Adam S series are also among the best for resonance free low end in a ported design. The overall feel of the speaker is a bit fatter than the PMC tighter, crisper sound, so a lot of that is going to to come down to taste abs preference. The right speaker choice is SO personal. -Justin

[@murraywebster1228]

I wish someone would make a Fletcher-Munson plugin with real volume calibration…….unread recently some monitor manufacturer had it built into the speakers, also this is why when calibrating your room/speakers the calibration volume IS VERY IMPORTANT as opposed to what many systems say, I always calibrate at around 90dB, this being a habit I learned from my FOH/System Engineering jobs for concerts, I believe you should calibrate 6dB louder than your average „loud“ listening volumes to accommodate for dynamics, I’ve seen systems that have been calibrated at 60 to 70dB and then people wonder why the mixes don’t translate, this is far more important as many people realise….

[@irpacynot]

Good stuff.

[@loganunknown]

How would you measure 80db if you mix on headphones? I usually mix low volume and rarely turn it up as l have a damaged ear.

[@SonicScoop]

You can hold an SPL meter directly up to an ear cup. Arguably better however is this: www.sensaphonics.com/products/db-check-pro

[@djryf1006]

Thanks 🫶🏻

[@SonicScoop]

Thanks for tuning in! -Justin

[@carlos-ni4hn]

hey justin ,jason is already involved in mixcon 2023 right?

[@SonicScoop]

I should be meeting him at NAMM this weekend to discuss. -Justin

[@luciiddd]

I’m mixing at whispering levels, but getting great mixes. This may be subjective. Is something wrong with me?

[@SonicScoop]

If it’s working, do it! -Justin

[@sampledude8846]

I really need to crank things to be "inside" the mix. Am I doing it wrong?

[@SonicScoop]

Sometimes we need to hype ourselves up for sure. Having more than one listening level can be good. Loud and quiet mixing both have their pros and cons, as described here. -Justin

[@UncleBenjs]

Yooooo

[@SonicScoop]

Yooooo-thanks for stopping by Benj!!

[@MrFelonyLoc]

I like the convo , but I dont mix for phones and laptops

[@SonicScoop]

Fair enough, but some of your listeners are almost certainly hearing your mixes on them. Why not mix in a way that works everywhere? -Justin

[@MrFelonyLoc]

@@SonicScoop all music worked everywhere before the era of cell phones and laptops and music from those eras still translate to cells and laptops and headphones to this day . I dont mix for laptops headphones etc. my mixes and masters still translate

[@michael_r]

@@MrFelonyLoc ah, but mixing and mastering engineers from those eras were absolutely aware of listeners on cheap car radios, boom boxes, etc and did preview the mix on those systems before finalizing the master recording.

[@MrFelonyLoc]

@@michael_r previewing and checking the mix on various systems and devices true has always been a practice but adding all kinds of distortion to various instruments and bass and kicks in the mix for me doesnt sound natural to me so I dont do it . Ive heard so many of these new artist mixes on huge systems and though they are dope tracks ,sonically it sounds like crap and also their have been many artist i heard say hey turn my bass up. No I CANT IF I CRANK IT UP IT WILL DISTORT , why? because it has distortion processed into it . to each its own though its not my thing but I still get my mixes to translate with out it.

[@michael_r]

@@MrFelonyLoc yeah, I agree with you on that. That does not sound like my preferred approach to mastering :)

[@J3unG]

You can't HEAR low frequency as much as you FEEL them. Anything sub 250 Hz you feel in your feet, hips, stomach, chest, skull cavity. You want hype, mix with subs on every once in awhile to verify SPL in low and lo-low range.