The Puzzle They Said We Should Never Do...

** TODAY'S SUDOKU **
Today we feature a puzzle that our testers were a bit worried about. It has quite a complicated ruleset and this leads to much head-scratching but it's worth it!! It's called Bicycles and it's by SirSchmoopy making his debut on the channel! Do give the puzzle a try at the link below:
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Rules:
Normal sudoku rules apply. Digits in a cage sum to the small clue in the top left corner of the cage. Along a thermometer digits increase from the bulb end. The clue outside the grid gives the sum of the digits along the indicated diagonal. Within a row, let a "cycle" be the path taken starting from digit A in column X and then looking at digit B in Column A, then digit C in Column B etc until the cycle returns to digit A again. The "order" of a cycle is the number of unique digits contained in the cycle. eg A 5 in r9c1, a 9 in r9c5 and a 1 in r9c9 would force a cycle of order 3. In this puzzle the ORDER of the CYCLES also increases along thermometers starting from the bulb end.
Apparently this puzzle uses a mathematical concept, which is explained further here:
en.wikipedia.o...
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[@timedforpress]

You can always tell when a puzzle has broken Simon’s spirit, when he ends up Goodliffing a two-cell thermo.

[@doublelxp]

I'm officially going to call it Simoning, especially since the last time I thought about Goodliffing something, it was the 1-3 and 7-9 quads in the GAS a few weeks back where it turned out that Mark himself seemed to not notice that a quad with a 1 or 9 on it has to be the four extreme digits.

[@kathyjohnson2043]

And resorting to looking to Sudoku for help. (Honest, I understand: it is very hard to get the brain to switch from advanced logic to simple patterns and then back again.)

[@tedg1278]

Simon really hates using pencil marks. He doesn't place them when it could totally help him, and when he does place them he proceeds to ignore them when they could answer the the question he is considering.

[@SirSchmoopy]

I'm the creator of this puzzle, and it makes so happy to see you solve it. Thank you so much for giving it a shot even though the rules are a bit tricky, and way to make it through the solve. You spotted the 235 hidden singles in row 1 MUCH earlier than I expected, and that definitely helps with the midgame. Also, not sure if the pun in the title was noticed, but the importance of the bi-cycles having orders that sum to 9 from rows 2-6 is what gave the puzzle the name. (you were so close when you said the puzzle was bi-chromal!)

[@DitDede]

missed that pun. Very nice puzzle and title :-)

[@RichSmith77]

Thank-you for a terrific puzzle! The realisation that N couldn't go in the Nth column in rows 2-6, and hence the naked singles in the top row, was certainly a break-through moment for me.

[@insectbah]

Super cool puzzle!

[@victoriam6569]

Thank you for such an interesting puzzle! I enjoyed solving it. And also I'm very happy that my solving time wasn't much longer than the length of the video (As it's usually the case) I guess it just clicked for me :)

[@jonathanross6260]

What a terrific puzzle, thanks so much for creating it! I’d be curious whether it’d be hard to use this rule set in a multitude of puzzles, or whether it is a one-trick-pony. Was it a hard puzzle to set Would I be off the mark to assume that Veritasium’s recent video on the prisoners’ dilema inspired you to think about this rule-set?

[@glum_hippo]

The occasional "complicated rule set" never hurt anyone, just for the sake of variety. And especially in this case it was well worth the trouble! Plus "meemeemee" and "ner ner-ner ner ner" digits have entered the vocabulary for all time! Thanks so much for presenting this gem of a puzzle.

[@EricLBahen]

The "ner ner ner ner ner" made my day. I'm looking forward to hearing it again in future videos

[@martinestehouwer8505]

I loved that too, every time I heard Simon do the 'me, me, me' or the 'na, na, na na naa naa' it made me smile from ear to ear!

[@StorymasterQ]

It's approaching "nori-nori"-level gem.

[@cajunbeauty7654]

Loved it! 😄

[@runninonempty820]

If you started watching this video at 32:45 and watched until 33:20, you would swear that Simon has lost his marbles.

[@DerMarkus1982]

He indeed *has* lost all his marbles. They're out on his Sudoku grid, disguised as digits, going "ner--ner-ner-ner--ner!" and "me-me-me!". 🤪

[@biaberg3448]

😂

[@TrackpadProductions]

This ruleset is actually really cool once you wrap your head around it.

[@RescueMichigan]

Yeah but it was inadequately explained. You shouldn't have to have to work to figure out what the rules even mean. I took it to mean a thermo cell didn't even necessarily have to be counted on the increasing cycle count if the cell wasn't on the cycle. Too confusing; no good.

[@pseudonymousguy3715]

@@RescueMichigan all cells are part of a cycle by necessity

[@deilusi]

referencing cycles is awesome, I really see a lot of potenial for that rule.

[@thatotherdavidguy]

Starwarigami has a good number of puzzles that use cycles like this one: Cyclotron, Cyclones, Unicycles, Thermodynamics, and Quad Bike

[@primerthanyou]

Very clever title. Bi-cycles hinting at the key being there are only two cycles in rows 2-7. A nice cherry on top of an interesting ruleset/puzzle.

[@bobblebardsley]

I like that the diagonal clue was 23 and resolved all the 2-3 pairs too, not sure if that was deliberate or just blind luck but it was pretty sweet.

[@roaringdragon2628]

I noticed that too, I love it! Small correction though, it's rows 2-6.

[@kathyjohnson2043]

@@bobblebardsley oh I really hope it was deliberate!

[@SirSchmoopy]

@@bobblebardsley When setting the puzzle, I went through many iterations to resolve the end, and the LK clue was one I ended up going with. It was not intentional that it was 23 when I initially set it, though when I noticed this, it certainly gave that version an edge over the few other versions I had tried out (most of which involved an extra given digit). Also this version allows for there to be a 3 in the corner (R9C1), as the other versions of this had that bottom 23 pair switched.

[@slurpleslixie]

​@@SirSchmoopy The only thing it was apparently missing was not letting Simon finish it off with Sudoku and forcing him to actually think about cycles again :P (around 1:08:10 Simon laments boxes 1 and 4 not being resolved and eventually solves them with Sudoku on the rest of the puzzle rather than noticing that each row can be resolved by realising only one ordering respects the cycle-order thermo)

[@Jodawo]

What I learned from cracking the cryptic today: Egotistical Cells say, "Me! Me! Me! Me! Me!"

[@onijester56]

Meep!

[@annesorensen4004]

And two goes Na-Na Na-Na 😂

[@kathyjohnson2043]

And then, when they get jealous, they say 'Mine, Mine, Mine!'

[@davidblake6889]

@@kathyjohnson2043 Nah! That's only seagulls...

[@YourFavouriteDraugr]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJ2vnJhqjbd9hKM

[@TheFreeBro]

Regarding complicated rules: if you sheltered us from rules like “digits in a cage sun to the given clue” then I would have never discovered the beauty of killer sudokus. Same goes for thermos, kropki, etc. Please don’t stray away from complicated rules, they are the genesis of my love for sudoku variants

[@tezcharold]

This ruleset was fine, as Simon said it's reasonable once you get your head around it. But to be fair, there is quite a difference between thermos indexing cycles with increasing orders and a killer cage.

[@davidblake6889]

I don't think the cycles ruleset is any more complicated that other variants. I am sure that if it became a 'standard' variant, the logic it could produce alongside other variants would be fascinating. It certainly hit the mark alongside thermo and little killer rules in this case.

[@tezcharold]

@@davidblake6889 Don't really get what you're trying to say. Even Simon mentioned multiple times this is an extremely complicated rule set to get started with. And somehow you think it's at the same level as a killer cage.

[@andymitts251]

@@tezcharold the point is that all of the variants were considered "complicated" when they were first introduced. I remember a similar conversation about between lines and lockout lines, and now those are considered "standard" variants. Yes this is objectively more complicated than killer cages, but killer cages are objectively more complicated than normal sudoku rules

[@hhaavvvvii]

I think the ruleset has a potential to become extremely complicated, *but*, the puzzle presented actually uses simple logic steps. It could have been much much worse. I don't think this should become a standard sudoku rule though. In programming terms, we'd call these self-referential pointers and are generally a headache. Although, here we at least have rules that make them a bit more manageable.

[@tsgsjeremy]

This rule set "fit" my brain. I do a lot of coding so I spend a lot of time thinking about how functions reference each other. Exactly like the cycle references.

[@jeffmerlin2580]

Me too! :-)

[@blahhblaah74]

Me too! This was one of the rare puzzles where I was constantly a few steps ahead of Simon :)

[@thatotherdavidguy]

Starwarigami has a good number of puzzles that use cycles like this one: Cyclotron, Cyclones, Unicycles, Thermodynamics, and Quad Bike You should give them a solve!

[@SzanyiAtti]

This was one of the best puzzles I have seen in quite a while.

[@ollywinkles]

I love Simon so much but it's infuriating to hear him say things like "I can feel you all shouting at the screen" and "I feel so stupid" while I'm sitting here thinking "what on earth is going on??"

[@kathyjohnson2043]

That shouldn't be infuriating since you are apparently as smart as Simon!

[@ollywinkles]

@@kathyjohnson2043 I am not even in the same universe as Simon!

[@davidblake6889]

Trouble is, I was shouting at the screen. It's just that I was shouting complete rubbish!

[@bobbis.172]

This exactly, I’m always rooting him on while I cry inside for having no clue what to do next.

[@adipy8912]

That is what I also say to him. It feels like he don't trust us when we say that the video is good no matter how long it is.

[@mallomon]

At about 13 minutes, waiting for Simon to realize that the order of the cycle does not have to be the same as the digit on the thermometer

[@nomophobe]

Thanks for this post, I now know where to skip to and avoid as much cringing as possible waiting for Simon to get off the wrong path 😊

[@awilliams1701]

I didn't realize it until he thought he broke the puzzle. Then it was an instant light bulb.

[@prahas777]

I was dying inside at 11:40! // I'm also still wondering where in the rules it says the cycle in the row must include a digit on the thermo. Seems as if the cycles can start in any column... // No wait I got it - I think. Actually, every cell in the grid has a cycle, and therefore an order. But - we don't know anything about the orders of the non-thermo cells. We do know that the orders increase on thermos. That's why Simon is focusing on the thermo-cell orders. // At 27 minutes I think I got R7C1. It must have order 3. So it goes R7C1 --> R7C? --> back to R7C1 (which requires a 1). So if you try to make R7C1 a 3, then it points to R7C3, which has possible values (6,7,8,9). None of which points to 1! So R7C1 must be 4, and R7C4 must be 5, which points at the 1, which brings us home in order 3! Yay!

[@yaboyJJJJJ]

That gave me so much anxiety

[@stephenbeck7222]

prahas777 you got it. The rules take a little bit of thinking but once it clicks then it’s a nice little scheme.

[@wpsetzer]

Simon, I really enjoyed your solve. I don't know if it's been suggested, but you could ask Sven to let you put colored pencil marks in the grid, to give you the flexibility to do things like mark cycles or numbers across boxes by assigning a color for the digit. It should be "reasonably" easy for Sven to do so.

[@jessevennard2640]

This changes everything!

[@simonalbrecht9435]

The problem with that isn't the backend, the problem is that it would require major changes to the UI.

[@wpsetzer]

@@simonalbrecht9435 I don't see why. Sven could make it act just like the pen tool. Invisible by default, but when enabled, a box with a color wheel pops up, defaulted to black. Pencil marks would be displayed with the color chosen by the color wheel.

[@indygon]

This would be nice, there have been other puzzles where this would've helped although I can't remember any off the top of my head. Personally, I just used the color tool to color cells according to their cycle order (since you can use the numpad in color mode, so color 1 marked a digit with cycle order 1 and so on).

[@chiepah2]

This is a great rule-set and a beautiful puzzle. Thank you for choosing to showcase it. Cyclical logic could have help a lot more in disambiguating box 1, but you, surprisingly, used sudoku to solve those.

[@stephenbeck7222]

Yeah he was down to pairs in fully colored rows then he should have been able to disambiguate them.

[@Marronii]

I'm baffled time and time again by the constructions that are possible. And to think that someone found/constructed these is amazing!

[@DArtagnonW]

I quite liked this. I would love to see more puzzles with cycles.

[@pwinn]

There’s a pack of them released on Discord, but they’re called “N-Chains” in that.

[@SirSchmoopy]

The N-Chains puzzle pack is amazing! It was constructed by a different author, and we came up with these variants independently of each other. Do give them a shot though, they're amazing fun, and there's a good progression in difficulty, the first few in the pack are very approachable, and the last one in the pack, while very difficult, is one of the best puzzles i've done in quite a while.

[@pelahnar4]

Complicated rulesets in videos are fine by me; because it means _I'm_ not the one having to figure them out!

[@andrewnelson2525]

So I did this in two hours and 15 minutes. Most of the time, I was thinking "I'm not at all sure I understood the rules correctly, but if I did it's a pretty cool puzzle. And if I didn't, it may be two pretty good puzzles, because what I'm doing is working." I was happy to see Simon confuse himself for the first few minutes so I knew it wasn't just me. This puzzle really needed a 6 x 6 sample puzzle to illustrate the new rules. Quite enjoyed it.

[@michaelhird432]

Time to make a puzzle with rules that are deliberately confusing that has 2 different solutions depending on how you interpret them. Make people argue

[@SirSchmoopy]

If it would help, I did create a 6x6 sudoku with a solution where I went through all of the main steps to go over the logic. the puzzles name is 'Cyclometer 234' on Logic Masters Germany

[@Censeo]

@@michaelhird432 omg that would be awesome, especially if there are only two reasonable interpretations of the rules and they both have unique solutions. That would be high level trolling

[@milla_5028]

I still don't get the rules after your explanation - so I'll just watch and hopefully understand while you do the puzzle.

[@julieannmyers8714]

I watched it all... without ever understanding the rule set. I never yelled at the screen once.

[@longwaytotipperary]

ditto

[@NFSHeld]

I have been literally cheering you on for the first 20 minutes while you are discovering and step by step learning and then successfully applying the rules! I'm glad you two "overrode" the recommendation of the testers, because so far, this has been a treat.

[@Benet3000]

Yes, im here right when a video came out, now i can spend my late evening with this and a cup of Tea

[@SolinoOruki]

I really enjoyed the cycle rule set. And most importantly it gave us two new fantastic sudoku terms: "mememe digits" and "nahnahnanahnah digits"😂😂

[@ritwikgupta1558]

The rule set makes me think of symmetric groups from algebra. Very interesting rule set!

[@theosandstrom3945]

That rule was definitely written by an algebraist! I can’t imagine anyone else using the word “order” rather than “length”

[@99stiggbeard99]

Also a lot of overlap with graph theory. Either way, lots of high level maths as a basis

[@irrotational]

@@99stiggbeard99 I went to a very confusing class once where we solved the same problem with algebra, geometry and groups...left me dizzy...but I think at some level a lot of the branches of pure maths converge again.

[@ritwikgupta1558]

@@theosandstrom3945 Exactly

[@ritwikgupta1558]

@@99stiggbeard99 Oh i see, I really haven't done much graph theory so i couldn't see the connection. But thanks for informing! :)

[@Nevir202]

Funny how often he forgot that when a number is confirmed to be a part of a cycle >1, it then can't be the number of the column it is in. EG: that fact resolved the 1,6 pair in box 2 ages before he resolved it by other means.

[@TomMalufe]

I found this ruleset perfectly clear from the get-go and was immediately amused by how much Simon struggled with it throughout. Sometimes the best part about watching Simon solve a puzzle is seeing the totally backwards ways in which he finds numbers in the grid.

[@originalelijah9541]

This may be my favorite video I’ve ever seen on the channel. I really love cycle/indexing/159 puzzles and have done a few other Sir Schmoopy puzzles with my friend and they are absolutely fantastic as they use similar rule sets and each one we’ve done has a nice unique twist to it. I really find the logic around indexing is incredibly fascinating, and the coloring logic Simon did in this puzzle was just brilliant.

[@sonalita_]

This is another one like the 159 rule set where being a software developer helps a lot. I saw a lot of logic early on and was willing for Simon to see it. E.g as soon as he pencilled 9 in box 3, I saw r3c5 couldn’t be a 9 as that would make it a 2 cycle, meaning r4c5 would then have to be a 1-cycle 5 but we already knew the cycle lengths of that row. I love these indexing rulesets but can see that they can be mind bending unless you’re used to it from a maths or programming background.

[@helenpaynter5731]

Simon, your sudoku solves kept me sane in 2020, and I still keep coming back to them for the sheer joy. This was one of the best. I actually love it when it's a new rule set to you, because I'm not lagging quite as far behind you as I usually do. Please never ever retire!

[@StevenJacks]

Couldn't have done it without you, but it was a pleasure to go along with the ride. I did find some things before you did, but probably only 10%. Thanks for trying something so wild.

[@danielwcrompton]

I loved the premise of the cycles, once I caught on to how they worked, as an addition to Sudoku logic, I was amazed at what they added to the puzzle. Beautiful puzzle.

[@msolec2000]

Tip for Simon: Look for ways to use your tools in complicated pencil marks. In particular, 0. In this case, Corner marks including a 0 could have meant "order pencil marks", while corner marks with no 0 means regular corner marks.

[@simonalbrecht9435]

Great idea!

[@ninawilson1035]

I’m no where near an expert at sudoku. I wouldn’t even consider myself good at it. Most of the time when I watch your videos I’m in complete AWE! I definitely was this time too, but I found myself figuring out your next step a few times. This puzzle is beautiful and mind-bending!

[@LadyArtemis2012]

I love the way that Simon called the 1 Cycles "Me me me" cycles and the 2 Cycles "Nuh nuh nuh" cycles. Also, this puzzle was so much fun to solve.

[@jemovimm9020]

Absolutely loved this! Spent ages, over to hours, I'm not really a maths brain, but as someone working with literature on a daily basis, I really appreciate the poetry in a good sudoku - there's a rhytm to the solve, there are quirks, references, repetitions and sort of evolving themes. Not to mention the potential for great puns in the name of the puzzles, like this one! The neatness of a sudoku grid is way more fun when it comes to numbers than words (I love a good sonnet but I'm happy that not every poem is one), but I'm amazed at the wonderful variety sudoku setters manage within a nine-by-nine grid. Thank you so much for this one, @givengels !

[@rgoyal107]

Even though this sudoku had a complex rule set, it is one of my favourite Simon solves. The logic involved is absolutely incredible, and it was amazing to watch you solve it.

[@MadScientist212]

Catching up as I am on old videos, this was one of the hardest puzzles I've ever solved, but also a really fun one. A big part of the challenge I found was wrapping your head around the rules (including not making the mistake of thinking that a digit on a thermo has to indicate the size of the cycle for that thermo/cell) and figuring out how to remember cycle sizes through some sort of notation or pencil marking. What I found was helpful was to open a second version of the puzzle in another tab, and in that version only pencil mark the cycle order/size, and also color in known cycle cells once found. On the main page I didn't make any pencil marks for cycles once I started with the second tab, but would frequently switch between the pages to refresh my memory about cycle sizes. Once I started doing that and was able to sort out the information in a way my brain was able to retain, I was able to discover and appreciate the beautiful logic this puzzle has.

[@tyfunk8614]

What a cool puzzle! I found the rules fairly easy to understand once you gave an example, I think the extra tricky part is trying remember the size of a cell's cycle when you place a digit. Maybe a solution for this could be to have a shape tool that places a small shape in the corner of a cell (like a size 4 cycle would be a square, a size 6 would be a hexagon and so on). Near the end, you could have resolved those pairs in box one and four by just observing the cycle, I.E. r3c3 can't be 5 because that ends the cycle too soon. Excellect solve though, really entertaining

[@4evafcn]

marked the different orders by colours in the order they are on the board (green=4, purple=5,...). not perfect but kind of worked.

[@bigjoemaggie5267]

Except the example provided was ambiguous so we didn't learn anything. At all.

[@tyfunk8614]

@@bigjoemaggie5267 Speak for yourself

[@stefanladewig8910]

How about keeping single number center pencil marks as "solved" instead of replacing them with big numbers? This allows corner pencil marks to remain visible.

[@tyfunk8614]

@@stefanladewig8910 Well no because then they don't look solved and that could get confusing. But your comment made me realize that the solution to this would be a mark that persists when you place a big number. Like a "pen" mark instead. That doesn't sound too hard to program either; it's just a mark on a different layer

[@philipcox1392]

Loved this. I found using the nine colours to represent the orders of the cycles (i.e. light grey=1, dark grey=2, etc) really helpful.

[@sproulja]

Loved this! The rules took a bit to understand, but once I grasped it the logic flowed very nicely!

[@itsmevally]

I absolutely loved this one! One of the few difficult sudokus I've been able to solve completely without your help. Felt amazing! :)

[@veganostra7388]

This set of rules is wonderful! It clicks intuitively to me once the rules became clear

[@grantfraser5430]

I don't solve too many puzzles here. In the rare case where I think I might have a chance, I usually screw up in the first 15 minutes or just stare for half an hour before begging Simon to demonstrate. Surprised myself with this one and then even more surprised that so few others had solved it. Are most people like me and mostly just watch Simon?

[@maspleben]

Fascinating puzzle! Thank you Sir Schmoopy!

[@GenericKen000]

I think this ruleset is actually quite intuitive, but is difficult to define intuitively and precisely in lay parlance because of its novelty. I think it's actually an interesting technical writing challenge. Here's my shot: "Within each row, a CYCLE is a set of digits, where each digit indexes the column of the next digit in the cycle. A 5 in r2c1, a 9 in r2c5, and a 1 in r2c9 is a cycle. A cycle's length is the number of digits in it before it repeats. The example "591" cycle above has a length of 3. Along each thermometer, each thermometer digit's cycle's length must also increase from bulb end."

[@nerdpiggy]

i hope that we see this cycle rule in more puzzles. idk why but my brain really likes/understands it a lot.

[@y_prime]

58:27 really liked the cycles constraint, though it took a few minutes to understand fully. used a break along the first row because it requires a high amount of cycles of length 1

[@tremkl]

Loved the puzzle, loved the video. It was definitely mind bending. One of the things I’ve found really interesting about these brand new, incredibly unorthodox variants is how you have to develop the tricks as you go. So much of getting good at Sudoku is learning patterns, so you can spot and utilize a jellyfish, for example. I suspect if you did more of this variant, this one wouldn’t seem so hard, but so much of figuring it out is learning all these little rules that aren’t necessarily stated, like the sum of all cycle lengths in a row must always be 9. Seems obvious once stated, but once you realize that, it gets quite powerful.

[@ry-et1vi]

I'm so excited, I beat simons time in a long video!! 59:56, very proud. I'm so glad you chose to put this puzzle on the channel after all, I love the ruleset. I think it looks a bit more complicated than it is because it's hard to explain rules like that clearly over text without looking really complicated

[@GioPanStudios]

Absolutely loved this one. Such a unique ruleset, it made the puzzle feel really fresh.

[@bookmarvel1]

For a couple of these long solve videos I've been watching recently, sometimes I spot a detail you don't see for a few minutes, but this one I kept seeing things a couple of steps ahead or a way of doing it once you mentioned a detail. So I opened up the puzzle in another tab and I would start doing some things, pencil mark a bit, stare at it for a while to see if I could tell where to go next, and then I would come back to the video until you made an observation that made me realize what to do next. I went back and forth a good number of times, and I feel like it's eventually gonna help me with my puzzling skills for these very complex puzzles (more complex than the GAS's I mean, since that's what I've been doing), and also it was very fun to sort of do it alongside the video! And I do feel very proud of the little things that I spotted by myself, even though there's no way I could've solved the whole thing on my own (yet)

[@tiansivive]

I have a feeling programmers will be quite fond of this rule set. It certainly worked for me, I was able to spot things quite quickly. I noticed Simon was struggling quite a lot to keep following the cycle logic, he'd take one step in the right direction and then veer off into sudoku or some other train of thought that would lead him no where. For me it felt like I was debugging code. Just stepping through variable/function references and following the call sites until I come to something important. Critically, working "backwards" was key, as in: "where would/could the number that points to this cell go"

[@stevieinselby]

Well done for even understanding the rules, that was tough! And as for how you remembered which of the corner pencil marks were your new rule for his puzzle about marking the order, and which were ones you had forgotten and just put ordinary corner marks in, I'll never know, but it was making me nervous the whole way through!

[@msolec2000]

Here is a place where I suggest using 0. A 0 in the corner and then another corner marks mean "order" marks, no 0, regular corner marks.

[@brandonteng99]

Took about 2 hours but I solved it!! Love this sort of ruleset

[@raphboisxxx]

This was one of the most enjoyable watch I've seen in recent memory. Good job Mark and good job SirShmoopy for creating a masterclass puzzle

[@rockniu]

Still half way to the solution, but already amazed by the design. How clever this is!

[@kyrosun6766]

I'd really like to look at puzzles like this with smarties like you guys. I get a lot of things before you, and also have no idea where you are half the time. But I love following logic, it's so engaging.

[@retepsemaj96]

First time I've ever been quicker than the video! 59:18 Quite pleased as my times are usually well above the video length. I thought this was a really interesting puzzle and all the cycles fit together so neatly.

[@Coldheart322]

I only partially solved this, as I find watching the video far more interesting, but the break in was great... once you realised the tip of the thermo wasn't the same number as the order. It really does add new elements on how you think about things. Like Simon ignoring the 2 cell thermos for ages, while I had realised they help work out which cycle they are in. Definitely channel worthy imo.

[@kslingsby]

Fantastic puzzle and fantastic solve. It is so refreshing to see Simon working out the logic for a new rule set from scratch, AND still explaining it all so clearly as he goes, rather than the ‘let’s get this done as quickly as possible’ approach that can tend to happen!

[@pascalhaering]

I was determined to solve this on my own. It took me a while to get my head around the ruleset, but in the end I managed to solve it in about two hours. Loved it, what a fascinating puzzle.

[@ketchup4sale]

Loved this puzzle, even though it took me nearly two hours. I got stuck for a good 30 mins because I forgot about the diagonal clue, but it flowed nicely after that :) Only my second time attempting one of the puzzles Simon does...I just really liked the sound of the ruleset!

[@JPgreekgaming]

My brain is probably wired weirdly cause i found this rule set incredibly intuitive once it clicked after 5-10 mins. fascinating! Incredible setting and solve as always and would definitely want to see more of this!

[@alienrenders]

About 1h20m for me. I had figured out the cycle length for the whole thermo on the left except the tip. Is it a cycle of 9? Well, if it was, the bulb of the little thermo on row 2 also has a cycle size of 9, and its tip has length 10. Not possible. This has escaped me for over an hour. 15 minutes later, I had solved the puzzle. It is an absolutely brilliant puzzle.

[@3Jeroen3]

This took me 123 minutes, love the cyclical nature and advanced pointer arithmetic you need to do. Bicyclical thermos, both order and number are relevant, brilliant.

[@tchpowdog]

First time I've ever seen Simon call Mark in the middle of a puzzle to get hints. Simon will never admit to this, so just accept it as true.

[@rontyson6118]

Lmao. Hahaha.

[@spootot]

whats funny to me is watching him struggle actually helped me figure out how this all works

[@mawillix2018]

I'm glad I got the logic right in the beginning.

[@Swisswavey]

I have to say I very nearly didn't even start this puzzle cos I thought the rules were too confusing. But I'm so glad I gave it a try. It was very challenging and I had to get creative with my pencil marking and colouring but I was really chuffed to solve it in just slightly more than an hour.

[@ImaginaryMdA]

What a fun puzzle! I really like the cycle rule. Thought about quitting often, but very glad I stuck with it!

[@danihat2756]

I really enjoyed this puzzle once I understood the rules properly. I hope to see more. ☺️

[@beangorl7005]

This man slowly descending into madness as he describes a puzzle as "being either a nuh nuh na nuh nuh or a me mee me me, but it can't be me me me eme so it has to be nuh nuh na nuh nuh"

[@gc2009able]

I was completely stuck, with about 2/3 of the grid filled in (and lots of ambiguous cycles), so I returned to Simon's video and suddenly when he remembered the "23" diagonal clue (45:50), I realized I had completely forgotten it too! That made short work of the rest of the puzzle, taking just a few more minutes. A brilliant puzzle, but my brain hurts now... I too wonder (in awe) at how SirSchmoopy's brain works!

[@RichSmith77]

I had a similar moment in my solve. Lots of 23 pairs and incomplete cycles. Wondering how they all resolve. "Is it the 15 cage...I bet it's the 15 cage...I'm guessing one way round makes the 15 cage impossible...must resist the temptation to bifurcate...WAIT, THE 23 LITTLE KILLER CLUE!!!"

[@SirSchmoopy]

if it's any consolation while setting this, I forgot myself that i had put the 23 lk clue in and thought i had broken the puzzle a few times :|

[@RichSmith77]

@@SirSchmoopy :-)

[@gc2009able]

@@SirSchmoopy lol. That is a *tremendous* consolation!

[@jovaji72]

So the family is growing up. After our beloved nori-nori, please welcome nah-nah-nah-nah, me-me-me-me and you-you-you-you !

[@LixLorn]

"So it's a ner-ner-ner-ner-ner!" love your specialist vocabulary, it brightens my days :)

[@TomHickey]

I'm not finished watching yet, but I'm loving that "nur nur nur nur nur" is a core part of the vocabulary of this variant

[@Sonicfalcon97]

I remember a time where I wondered who was shouting at their screen who hadn't solved the puzzle. Who could possibly see the trick faster than Simon? I'm proud to say it was me this time! (Find the logic for the break-in, not shout at my screen) This was an astonishingly beautiful puzzle, and it was an absolute joy watching you learn something new in real time! Also can we just appreciate the new Sudoku terminology we've learned in this video such as: "nyeh nye ne nye nyeh cells" and "memememe cells"

[@paulwright13]

thoroughly enjoyed the puzzle and commentary, thinking outside the cycle

[@slurpleslixie]

My timer said 93:15 but I think I left it running for at least a few minutes while I was doing other things (though probably not more than 15) The interplay between the ascending and descending thermos on the two edges, and how the given 1's restrict the minimums and maximums for the break-in was just beautiful setting. It sure wasn't easy but it never felt unfair, and the logic had some really wonderful steps to it.

[@Rynohoopty]

Absolutely loved this puzzle. Something about it felt very programmatic in nature which appealed to me. Was only shouting a bit. Hats off!

[@jeroenroest91]

Extremely difficult ruleset, but also an extremely beautifully created (and solved) puzzle!

[@juliadefranco1130]

This one was so much fun. I didn't see this until the end, but it's called bicycles because so many rows have exactly two cycles in them.

[@annesorensen4004]

Could’nt understand the rules until you yourself understood it. 😳 After that point, i loved the Logic of it 😁 Well done Simon 🤘

[@iridium.iodine]

Loved this puzzle!! I got just a couple of minutes into Simon's solve before I realized I just *had* to try it myself. Took over two hours (partly because I had to pause a few times to do my job), but it's my first ever long video solve!

[@squizza]

Beautiful puzzle! A bit frustrating at times early on whilst Simon got his head around the ruleset but once he got going it was a pleasure to see the genius at work. Thank you for another great solve.

[@jonathanross6260]

To answer your question, Simon: loving it! I love sudokus with number-theoretical rule-sets. If other setters could have a go at this idea, I would be very happy!

[@SirSchmoopy]

There are several other puzzles that I've made with similar rulesets on logic masters germany if you'd like to try them. As for puzzles by other setters, N-chains puzzle pack has a similar ruleset and is a lot of fun.

[@oldmomj5088]

Got to love the excitement when things begin to make sense. Thank you for sharing this puzzle. It was a new way of thinking. And it helps to see that others can be confused too. Amazing puzzle rules!

[@praharmitra]

This puzzle was surprisingly easy for me. I am a physicist and in group theory there is a concept of cycles that I work with literally everyday. So the various logical leaps needed here came to me very quickly.

[@deborahbarnard1641]

More with this ruleset please! I didn't manage to finish it - I got fairly far through several times, but I think I kept making a silly mistake around the same point, so in the end watched the video. But I'd love to do more of these!

[@jon-tabbypiper6554]

Kept getting so sad when he kept moving on without following up on the cycles but cracked it in the end! Good show Simon!

[@bobbie0976]

Awesome puzzle, I almost can’t believe I solved this. my break in was different, with first digit a 4 in r7c1. Once you wrap your mind around the rules, it’s very interesting and more restraining than what it first appears to be.

[@ohwell225]

I kept snickering throughout the entire video; na-na-na-na digits and me-me-me digits were just too funny. Your deadpan expression and voice while saying that was just icing on the cake. Great video!

[@andrewhowe7225]

Absolutely loved working through this. My favourite in quite a while. Awesome setting!

[@jamesmycroft6131]

I almost did not try but glad I did... Took me 1:40.37 which is one of the longer efforts I have made on a puzzle without giving up or peeking for a hint in the video but I was always making a little progress so I refused to give in. Thanks for the video and Sir Schmoopy for the setting! EDIT: After watching video wanted to add... LOVED IT... Wish Simon did not have to feel that people would be mad... Too bad if you were I am sure plenty more than me enjoyed and welcomed this puzzle... Variety is the spice of life so embrace it even if it is not always your cup of tea as the channel is for everyone not one individual.

[@thoughtbyte]

I absolutely love this constraint. SirSchmoopy has a few easier introductory puzzles using it on his Logic Master's page, do give them a go!

[@thoughtbyte]

(and great solve Simon!!!)

[@johnh2052]

I loved this ruleset. :) Simon, I think you should have double-checked the orders of the last little thermo at the end, just to show that they were valid. (They were, happily.)

[@leotuxidas]

Great logic, great set of rules. I hope we see more of this. I'm glad I gave this one a try. After the initial 10 mins, it went really smooth

[@bluebird5670]

This is the first puzzle where I have been ahead of Simon. I feel as if I just won a game of basketball against my dad for the first time, and it feels more confusing than rewarding lol

[@irrotational]

Loved the video and the ruleset! Yet another good decision by you both 👍

[@johnh2052]

This ruleset leads to some very interesting results. For example, you can place the 1 in column 9 (into R9C9) from very, very early in the solve.