The R25 Orbital Railway: Are You Serious, Mr Johnson?

[@n17hero]

I expect if asked now, Johnson would say that he didn't even realise it was a railway.

[@marvintpandroid2213]

I'm sure all the rules were followed even if the route was never built.

[@spacewitch3707]

similarly to recent events, this railway is an endless cycle

[@highpath4776]

Round Cake anyone ?

[@rodgermoss8975]

@@highpath4776 I couldn't possibly comment until I've read Sue Grays report

[@michaelstevens3479]

He did not realise that a gathering with drinks was a party either.

[@mattscudder1975]

You didn’t waste three days getting footage, because if only one person enjoyed that footage then it wasn’t a waste and I definitely enjoyed watching said footage.

[@RogersRamblings]

Good thought, well said.

[@stevemoss7793]

I agree, except that Jago said FOUR days!

[@rodjones117]

Time that you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

[@TimMiddleton]

"The proposal was announced by the then-Mayor of London, Boris Johnson" So it was about as serious as the Boris Island airport, the Garden Bridge, the Irish Sea tunnel, the Irish Sea Bridge and Lulu Lytle's wallpaper.

[@AnthonyHandcock]

And what wallpaper it is. I can only assume she got it after Poundland rejected it as being far too tacky to ever sell.

[@JudgeHill]

We’re already regretting not doing the Boris Island airport. Was a great (if not particularly original) idea

[@jandersonhill]

And about as serious as Boris having 'lockdown' parties. Oh, that's something he did manage to make happen!

[@paulhough5941]

@@JudgeHill It looked to be a simple solution to a complex problem but apart from the location being three times foggier than Heathrow there were just too many other downsides to it.

[@trevvalley7671]

@@JudgeHill Not for those of us living near the site, especially when there was already an international airport in Kent left to rot. Most galling was that Boorish was mayor of London, not Mayor of Medway Council or Leader of the KCC, so had zero authority here.

[@AndreiTupolev]

"We have to ask: was it serious?" "The proposal was announced by then mayor of London, Bo Johnson" There's your answer right there

[@AtheistOrphan]

‘Whiff-Waff!’

[@francisboyle1739]

@@AtheistOrphan You might think that. Jago couldn't possibly comment.

[@highdownmartin]

We must think ourselves lucky that a billion quids worth of “ commissioning consultants “ weren’t engaged. Garden Bridge anyone?

[@MrStath1986]

Cue incomprehensible etonian blathering punctuated by some buzzwords and intense gesturing with this thumb.

[@mr51406]

The R25 orbital will be opening just a few days before the bridge to Northern Ireland. 😉 Always fascinating! I’m sure Ian Hislop would be proud of all your research and your commentary.

[@neilscotter5191]

Boris is what a lot of rail enthusiasts call a Crayonista: Draws lines on maps with no thought as to the consequences.

[@DoctorAzmain]

I'm a Neasden ex-local so clicked immediately! I recall hearing whisperings of such plans a few years back, but this all sounds far too ambitious given TfL's current financial status... A brilliantly informative video as ever Mr Hazzard!

[@TalesOfWar]

If only the guy who "came up wit it" (he didn't) wasn't so keen on reducing funding to such entities so such things could actually become a reality.

[@bf2404]

Let's not forget, TfL are part of our corrupt government, they can do what ever they want if it came to it. They got access to a endless pit of money if they really needed it. But this narrative where TfL got no money is to squeeze the BS CC, ULEZ charge, high travel costs and any other tax they introduce out of the everyday working person.

[@darthwiizius]

@@bf2404 TFL are only temporarily skint due to losses of revenue due to covid but if the national government doesn't step in to protect them they will have no choice to either increase prices or cut services to service the financial black hole caused by the pandemic. Still they probably won't, no Tory party donors at TFL.

[@mittfh]

@@bf2404 Back when Mr. Johnson was Mayor of London, TfL was generating a surplus, so he reasoned it could do without government subsidy. During the pandemic, TfL had to keep many services running for the benefit of Key Workers, but as hardly anyone else (commuters or tourists) were using their services, revenue collapsed while overheads didn't depreciate anywhere near as much. Central government aren't keen to bail them out, instead suggesting fare or tax rises.

[@Mali-kd1zz]

Wow Dollis Hill here!! Deacon Road ex- local. Haven't been there in over 13 years.

[@mickeythompson9537]

Your frequently implied 'Barking' nature of the whole thing was spot on :-)

[@Bunter.948]

Mr H, you have an absolute talent for taking what at first view appears a totally boring non-subject and creating a captivating and enjoyable video. You should do this more often. Oh! You do? So you do, so you do. Thanks, Simon T

[@richardmcgowan6383]

I remember reading about a similar proposal in the early 1980s. It's one of those ideas that come and go. Rail travel in London is geared towards getting in and out of the centre. Going from say Harrow to Finchley will take you hours. So in theory there is a real need.

[@ttrjw]

The 1974 London Rail Study had Orbirail - which eventually became Overground.

[@MrBmista]

Whilst I understand your point i think Harrow and Finchley were bad examples lol cause they're both connected on the metropolitan line. Otherwise you would have to be a bit more specific since there are as many Harrows as there are Finchleys lol. Sorry for being pedantic xD

[@TalesOfWar]

Manchester has the same problem with the tram system. It's great getting to and from Manchester itself, but anywhere along the edge of it? Nope, you need to go into the city first to then go out again. It really would benefit from connecting lines. Much of the route is still there from when the lines were closed in the 60's though a lot has since been redeveloped. There are plans afoot to improve such things, but it'll take a long time and a lot of money before it becomes reality I fear. Even though the political will is there in the form of Mayor Andy Burnham.

[@neofujivideo]

@@MrBmista Finchley Road is on the Metropolitan but that isn't in Finchley, Harrow is massive so it depends where you start from but the most direct route between the two really is about an hour's bus journey

[@Okayokay_sz]

@@neofujivideo agreed from areas like South Harrow to North Finchley is quite long by public transport 😂

[@mickeydodds1]

Nice to see semaphore still alive and well and living in London.

[@Alex58399]

“It would finally give Thamesmead its own station” yesss can’t wait to visit the pinnacle of architectural prowess

[@calmeilles]

Better hurry and think about alternative transport; they'll have knocked it all down before rail reaches it.

[@alan-sk7ky]

Lord knows, the place needs something/anything to lift the place up a bit...

[@ray6442]

I lived in that God forsaken hell hole for 8 years of my childhood, moving away was the best thing that ever happened to me.

[@Voltaic_Fire]

_"It Dudden make sense..."_ Oh good lord, Jago.

[@andrewlong6438]

When you talk about orbital railways, my immediate thoughts are a railway version of the M25 linking the London airports and outer suburban towns. Likelihood of it happening is probably zero though had we had airports during Victorian days - think it may have happened!

[@ajs41]

Good idea. It reminds me of the fact that I think there should be a railway or MagLev going along the M40 from London to Birmingham instead of the current HS2 route because it would be be much easier to build.

[@iajafer]

I grinned when I saw the bit describing BoJo had a backdrop of Barking Station. Deliberate, Mr.H? 🙂

[@francisboyle1739]

That and the suspiciously large number of times Barking was mentioned.

[@trevormillar1576]

This idea has been around since the late 70s when it was called Ringrail 2000; I remember signing a petition in favour of it, you can follow its route using the existing Overground thanks to Cuddly Ken "Newts" Livingstone!

[@PlanetoftheDeaf]

@@neiloflongbeck5705 The flyover has had to be completely rebuilt anyway!

[@morgengabe1]

@@neiloflongbeck5705 racist...

[@roberthill6216]

All I got was a envisagement of ringway 1 for trains.

[@MrTudwud]

Years ago, I submitted a plan on behalf of my Railway (WAGN) to optimize the existing Thameslink (Bedpan to Brighton etc.) to include Peterborough, Cambridge, Gillingham (Kent) etc. The paper went to my Managing Director who complemented me on its content (and I never saw it or heard of it again!). The paper had to be totally comprehensive - a map alone would NOT suffice. Availability of stock - types of stock needed - expected traffic, based on existing ticket sales - likely operator - track access charges; the list goes on and on. The complexity of "R25" does not seem to allow for this and ignores issues like non-existent spurs, connections etc. It also does not appear to take into account track upgrades/traction types to allow for the route to be traversed properly. That's the problem of having a London Mayor come up with such "plans" - who was advising him?

[@chriswalford4161]

That particular personage doesn’t seem to take advice.

[@SimonWhitesideMusic]

I wish you had explained that Dudding/ Dudden Hill thing earlier as I have lived in Dollis Hill & now Willesden Green for 30+ years I have always known it as Dudden. The rumble of the freight train line through Gladstone park actually gently shook my bed on occasion, quite a pleasant feeling.

[@mrjoneseastend]

I experienced those feelings too living next to a railway, the only time the earth ever moved for me.

[@darganx]

I live very close to the same line, on the Church End estate. For years they carried nuclear waste through there every morning! Although this practice has stopped (so they say) I still feel those rumbles in the morning, gives me chills!

[@SimonWhitesideMusic]

@@darganx I was going to mention the nuclear waste but was sure if I was correct

[@ronfisher2-railwaytravelvideos]

My Mum and my Auntie used to take my to Gladstone Park to watch the trains when I was still in my pram; perhaps that's where I got my interest in railways!

[@andrewclarkson3401]

Good video! You should do more twenty-first century unbuilt London.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

100% fewer spaceships than I expected from the title.

[@katrinabryce]

Next up, the Isle of Man underwater roundabout.

[@johndododoe1411]

Check the Norwegian similar project.

[@john1703]

"Boris Johnson does have a tendency to just say things, without being able to follow through" Really? I am so taken aback!

[@barneypaws4883]

Johnson and Barking in the same sentence....okay!

[@marienbad2]

Neasden! A favourite of all Eye readers everywhere, home of Stan and Doris Bonkers. I hope they are doing well, they must be getting on a bit by now. Nice video, lots of good footage, and well narrated!

[@ethanlittle776]

The problem is we need something like this. To go from anywhere in the outskirts of the city to another area on the outside you have to go in and come out again. Making places like Clapham and London Bridge even more busy. Been saying it for years but it’s not such an easy thing to do

[@my_beer_stories]

"The question we have to ask is was it serious?" OK let's find out. "The propsal was announced by then mayor of London Boris Johnson." Ah, so no then.

[@Sim0nTrains]

Very interesting about the R25 but I'm guessing it was just a idea the Mayor at the time got from a wine and cheese party! Great Video Jago.

[@Whatiwantedwastaken]

The fact that I eagerly click on each of your new videos from the other side of the world (Adelaide, Australia) has very little to do with the topic being interesting and everything to do with your skill in making it interesting. You’ve certainly got a gift as a factual presenter

[@johntyjp]

Agh!! What a sudden shock to oogle Boris full screen this time in the morning Jago, Really!!!😲😆

[@lapiswake6583]

Very interesting, I hadn't realised this was a thing that had been considered. I came up with a similar plan myself recently, although I would've put it further out, like utilising the staines to windsor and eton riverside and slough to windsor and eton central lines maybe with a new curve or a tunnel, using the Watford Jn - St Albans line and whatnot. The big thing from my perspective would be to make sure express trains stop at intersecting stations, so long distance travellers change there and go round it instead of via central london, helping congestion on the tube. There'd need to be express services stopping at major stations such as the intersecting ones, and stopping services serving everywhere. And a solution for the circle issue could be running services that terminate in several spaces before reversing. Like a Wimbledon to Wimbledon clockwise service that terminates at Wimbledon and then turns in to an anticlockwise WIM-WIM service and a clockwise Dartford to Dartford service that terminates and turns into an anticlockwise one. Or there could be services terminating at adjoining stations but going via the loop, like St Albans to Welwyn Garden City via Wimbledon and vice versa, and similar but further round, so you can always get a train between any two destinations on the loop, but you may have to wait a couple of services

[@dougmorris2134]

Yet another excellent video Mr Jago. Fading Boris to Barking was a nice edit. I had a similar thought earlier in the video when his name was first mentioned, thinking of the Boris Routemaster bus design. Am I right in thinking that the scene with the tram and train together and departing was at a Birkbeck (between Beckenham Jct and Crystal Palace)? I used that station in the 1960s.

[@robertmacphail5086]

Absolutely fascinating, as usual!

[@derabbink]

Berlin has a ring line (S-Bahn lines 41 and 42), and the risk of infinite knock-on delays is only somewhat of an issue. There's not enough switches between stations to interrupt ring traffic, and let trains turn around and run in the opposite direction when coming up on a disrupted section of the ring. And there is also not enough alternative modes of transport to easily make it from one ring line station to the next one, if the ring line itself is disrupted between them.

[@andyrob3259]

@ 1:20. How lucky was Mr Hazard to be at the station when they turned the lights off as dawn breaked. That's my highlight!!!

[@linkieloos]

0:48 I'm sure he will be remembered fondly 🙄 Great content as usual Jago

[@BritishBeachcomber]

I used to live opposite the triangle where the Staines, Hounslow and Whitton lines meet. They were still running steam locos for cargo. The trains used to stop at red for ages, letting off steam in the small hours. There was also an enormous marshalling yard on Hounslow heath. A pair of tunnels ran under it. One for the River Crane, the other one you could walk through if you dared. Pitch dark in the middle, with just a circle of light at each end.

[@abushams3336]

An advantage you forgot to mention , new created connections between old parts of the networks create alternative pathways during calamities , here in my hometown we see that with the tram network , if a tram breaks down there are rather often routes possible over parts of other lines to circumvent that broken vehicle. Only problem is that we still are in the process of renewing the system , so not all stops are useable for either the old or new model tram .. But as this is a train system that should not be a problem in this case .

[@DavidShepheard]

The major problem we have in London, is that demand has risen to the point that a very frequent service is run on most lines in and out of London. In theory, you can divert trains from one line to another, to get out of a jam. In reality, if the trains get to close together, they start catching each other up and start hitting red signals. Then other trains hit the end of the queue and you kind of get a wave of red signals that travels back down the line that has all the trains sitting around for the first train to get out of the way. A few years back, there was a fatality in South London and pretty much all of South London locked up, because there were so many shared paths and they could not route trains around the area where traction power had to be shut down. The best solution is actually to separate the services, so that a serious problem on one line does not effect the rest of the network. Where that is not possible, you need to plan for failure modes that do not cripple the system. Jago spoke of the Circle Line having delays that would go on for hours. That would cause conflicts with the times that District Line trains, Metropolitan Line Trains and Hammersmith and City Line trains were scheduled to go onto parts of the Circle Line. Breaking the Circle Line (and sending it to Hammersmith) allows for the Circle Line trains to be temporarily suspended at Hammersmith (for just a few minutes) so that they can wait for the next slot in the Circle Line timetable. (So when conflict starts to happen, the controllers can fix it. They can also suspend the Circle Line if there is a problem the trains can't get around.) One of our most effective railway lines in London, is the Victoria Line. It has no connections to anything else and they can run trains less than two minutes apart. If we ever visit the "Outer London Loop" idea, we would be better off finding existing lines that can be totally transferred over to the new line and building lots of new track. We need something, like Crossrail, that can create a lot of new passenger capacity, rather than something that leeches away existing capacity.

[@blueskiesabove3950]

Took us on a right proper journey there. Thanks JH

[@stuartcastle2814]

With all these projects he has announced, does anyone else get the impression that the engineering staff at Network Rail and TFL just see Boris pop up on TV, and start saying "FFS, what has he made up now?".

[@henrikgiese6316]

Experience from the partial orbit line built around Stockholm, Sweden (Tvärbanan, i.e. "the cross line"): An "orbit line" is pretty useless for going across town, but it can be a massive success for going part of the way. The advantage of making it a single line is that it can work as essentially overlapping lines. In Stockholm most people travel between two of the major interchange stations on the line - but often passing one or two. And there are 7 total. If you wanted each popular route as its own line you'd need like 20 total!

[@ccityplanner1217]

The southern side of this features too many down-facing chords that nobody needs to waste capacity on the existing lines for, but the northern side could be useful: a line would start from Bexley, run via Bexleyheath, Abbey Wood and Thamesmead to Barking Riverside, then use a new tunnel from Tufnell Park with stations at Gospel Oak, Belsize Park and West Hampstead, surfacing on the goods lines at Cricklewood, then run via Gladstone Park, Harlesden and Acton to Kew Bridge.

[@ricktownend9144]

A station at Tufnell Park would be good anyway - at present the only transfer point between the Overground and the Northern Line (north of central London) is Camden Town/Camden Road - a lengthy walk, or (on the Hampstead branch) Hampstead/Hampstead Heath (ditto)

[@derekstuart5234]

Envisaged by someone who, and let us be generous: envisaged a bus that cost over twice what it should have done and based on the prediction of exports that never materialised, a desire to build a floating airport in the Thames, part of a mass water-bird breeding area, with a constant crosswind and only just a mile away from a sunken explosives ship. Add to that the mad idea of building a bridge with a garden on it, a bridge to France, a bridge to Isle of Wight, a bridge from Wales to Ireland and one from Scotland to Northern Ireland and we have to conclude that we have a politician who is as much in touch with reality as he is with honesty. (no political opinion offered- just of his bizarre transport plans. PS I work in road transport management and his plans for buses is going to be the biggest eff up in our industry's history)

[@rommee]

Never say never! Crossrail took over 30 years or 25 years + to get to the point of the build getting started. 😅

[@mcarp555]

The obvious solution is to extend the orbit outwards from the centre of London by 10 or 20 miles and build it there. Less congestion and probably cheaper by the mile. Then just sit back and wait for the city to expand out to meet it. Building it as per the maps shown in the video would mean that by the time it was finished, it would be mostly useless for the intended purpose. The Circle line was probably meant to encompass the metropolis as it was in 1890, but now it's swallowed up by the London of the 2020's.

[@stepheneyles2198]

Great catch of the BB Tamper/Liner at 7:02! Not often you see permanent way equipment in real life...

[@ukuleletyke]

Presumably the R25 if built would have been contracted out to Triang, as it appears to have one of their catalogue numbers. So perhaps it would have been neither as expensive nor as useful as you might think..

[@allangibson2408]

Have you tried buying track from Triang? The mean time to failure wouldn’t be impressive either.

[@highpath4776]

Alas Rovex moved out of Mitcham, and the Dolls Pram section was only connected to the lost Merton Abbey Branch.

[@johndavies1090]

@@highpath4776 Now, now, be fair, gentlemen, please. Triang - and I emphasise Triang, as opposed to their present day successors, - worked incredibly reliably, and still do! Indeed, their tilting high-speed train worked considerably better than the real thing could!

[@ludoviclemaignen9432]

You wasted four days to film this, as you say, and I wasted nine minutes watching it, when the answer to the question "are you serious Mr Johnson?" Is obviously "no". But, you see, I, like you, am a masochist who will watch everything you put up. Thanks, and keep up the good work.

[@Tonydjjokerit]

TBH Jago, I see it as a very plausible idea, HOWEVER it needs to be done incrementally (i.e. a bit at a time) but it can be done without too much expense! Keep up the good work Jago!

[@simonolsen9995]

Those are some lovely looking trains you've got running in London these days. Thanks for your effort in shooting and editing such pleasing footage.

[@caesar7734]

0:47 Imagine if this guy was our prime minister

[@ianthomson9363]

Don't worry, he once said that he had no ambition to be PM.

[@princecharon]

I think you missed an opportunity with the title, as you could have asked 'Are you Barking, Mr Johnson?'

[@johnm2012]

You didn't waste your time, Jago. The footage was much appreciated.

[@barrettoliver2009]

Its so cool seeing footage from a bridge I use every day

[@robertb7918]

The plan makes use of the long dismantled former link between Norwood Junction and the Crystal Palace to Beckenham Junction line. The only trace of it now is the empty space under the road bridge north of Norwood Junction and the platform that it ran into on the east side of Norwood Junction which is so well and truly unused that it does not even have a number. When I was little I would stand on that road bridge and watch the trains, desperately hoping that one day I would see a train head down that spur. I never did because the line was never ever used - it had no purpose as there was no point in running trains from Norwood Junction to the terminus of the local line via Crystal Palace at Beckenham Junction.

[@ricktownend9144]

I think the link between Norwood Jct and the Birkbeck line has been built over. A real use for it (pre the trams) would have been a decent through-route between Bromley and Croydon, probably competitive with car (20 minutes on a good day). As things are today, Train+Tram - 35 minutes, Bus 40 minutes. Shame Sadiq Khan has set his mind against express bus, which could probably compete reasonably with the car (and give a useful link with West Wickham on the way).

[@andysheen6594]

It was used for coal trains from Kent mines up to a spur at Waddon marsh for the power stations,up until the early 1970s.

[@robertb7918]

@@andysheen6594 Thank you for that information. I don't remember seeing coal trains there.

[@trevordance5181]

Talking new through routes and connecting lines, I always thought it a shame that the terminus stations of Tattenham Corner and Epsom Downs weren't connected. They are so close to each other. How handy it would be if they were, connecting existing stations to each other without having to be going well out of your way to change trains as you currently have to now.

[@GNTel313]

Plus it could be yet, another circular loop to add to all the other existing loop lines that seem to inhabit south of the Thames

[@iankemp1131]

Yes, it does look tempting. I've thought that myself and have walked it. The basic question with any scheme like that is, would people actually want to travel that way and use it. The answer, unfortunately, is probably not. Whereas the Overground loop has met a real need, and some parts of the R25 might do the same.

[@johncrwarner]

Did Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson's plans include many bridges as he has always seemed overly keen on bridges the failed garden bridge, the channel bridge or the Scotland to Northern Ireland bridge If it has extravagant bridge plans we should be told.

[@goteamgaz]

It’s almost like someone is benefiting greatly by investigating these mega-projects that are laughably unfeasible so they can pocket public money without actually having to show anything at the end

[@fumthings]

to get from Barking Riverside to Abbey Wood would indeed require an extravagant bridge, because anything less would stop cruise ships from coming to Tower Bridge and mooring at HMS Belfast.

[@mrtulala1]

Hoping I’m not the only one that when the map was produced, it bore strong ressemblance to the Grand Paris Express plans, which is actually being built

[@Richardincancale]

Yes! One key difference is that the three Grand Paris lines will be a metro system in dedicated tunnels mostly (some viaducts in the south), with automated trains every couple of minutes like lines 1 & 14. Not trundling old overground trains trying to sneak in between other mainline traffic on shared lines!

[@rikardottosson1272]

Happy to see you visiting my neighbourhood (BKJ)

[@russbetts1467]

Thanks for this, Jago. Very interesting, even if unlikely ever to happen.

[@likklej8]

Surely Crossrail/ Elizabeth line makes the idea redundant as plenty of change stations. Nice to see the Art Deco Wimbledon Station in your Video Jago.

[@dad675]

always entertaining and insightful. Thank you.

[@samuraifool912]

Great to get a Fleeting Glimpse of Barking Station again. Living in Benfleet the Fenchurch line took me to the East End a Lot. Barking and Upminster were Pivotal. Haven't seen it since my youth (1970's) and now live in Australia since 1980. I haven't returned as I still have a Lot of Australia to see first. And most of my Close Relatives came Downunder too..! Although the Bucket List includes return to Uk. Interesting Video, sadly it would appear from Oz. That Borris, Talks before engaging his Brain..! But in on the Whole any upgrade to Rail Services is a Plus. One Desperately needed in Australia too..! Cheers and Thank you. Kim 😎 P.s. the Trains themselves have improved heaps..!! 👍

[@AnthonyHandcock]

Cheers Mr Hazzard. You are the suitcase full of booze to my work event.

[@nicfripp4159]

I feel a song coming up: "Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Johnson That's not how the railway's run..."

[@tomwilmott3426]

the london chateau mondova line is too exotic i love it

[@alan-sk7ky]

2:18 The Neasden Spur... is that the old regimental dance, like the Highland Reel?

[@peterriches6609]

Regarding Dudding Hill name change when Brent Council was formed from the Boroughs of Willesden and Wembley Dudding Hill street signs were replaced with signs carrying the Brent title, unfortunately all new signage had been installed before it was discovered that nobody at Brent council could read or spell, because of the costs of replacing all the incorrect signs Brent council decided to leave things as they were and many people found their postal addresses changed virtually overnight. It was not a popular decision for local people as Brent had been formed very much against the wishes of Willesden residents who saw no reason to combine in the first place especially as the new council offices were built in Wembley Park. As usual great video.

[@stephenwarhurst6615]

Must of been one of Johnson’s lock down garden party “ I was just kidding you jokes “

[@willhovell9019]

The Dudden Hill Gladstone Park junction railway from former London & North Western to former Midland railway , has been more realistically proposed as a reopened passenger line from Gunnersbury to West Hampstead , with a spur terminating at a rebuilt Brent Cross shopping center. This very unlikely to happen whilst the liarocracy remains in power in Downing St . Deliberately political as Schapps starves London of transport funding whilst concentrating on big issues , such as railway announcements. 😹

[@jackmartinleith]

Yes Will, this is TfL's well advanced West London Orbital scheme, currently on hold due to funding issues. The southwestern terminus will be Hounslow, not Gunnersbury. If KZbin allowed attachments I'd show you official maps. There's a useful Wikipedia entry.

[@willhovell9019]

@@jackmartinleith thank you one lives and learns

[@danwyman]

My wife regularly travels from New Eltham to West Hampstead. The ease of changing at London Bridge for that journey-with the addition of the tube incase trains a delayed-would probably make the R25 a redundant option for her, I reckon.

[@stevenjlovelace]

Thanks for including maps.

[@grantbeerling4396]

Boris not thinking things out! Now there's a thing.....

[@scottc1589]

I'm wondering about motive power for the R25, as it seems to have some similar themes to the Scotland to Northern Ireland rail tunnel proposal. Was the R25 to be pulled by Barbary Lions, as opposed to the unicorns suggested for the rail tunnel?

[@calmeilles]

More prosaically; North London's overhead or South London's third rail power?

[@ttrjw]

@@calmeilles Overhead on unelectrified bits or new build, existing power systems elsewhere.

[@highpath4776]

@@ttrjw Southern Region have those Dual Voltage Sets - and dont they have some Diesel locos that also take 3rd rail power ? ( otherwise it would have been thumpers all round)

[@wolf2965]

@@calmeillesWhy not both third rail DC and overhead AC, like North London Line it would partially run on did at the time (and stil does for a small remaining section past Acton Central)?

[@calmeilles]

@@wolf2965 Could use bi-mode EMU's as @highpath4776 says above, Thameslink does. But you wouldn't provide both forms of traction power, just have change over point. Re-suing existing tracs that might be most efficient. But if building new definitely stick with one or the other, prevents a whole load of headaches.

[@unclenogbad1509]

I had to take the North London Line a few times back in the day when it was the only real option for getting from somewhere like Richmond to East London, and remember thinking, as it clanked along with all the pace and drive of a horse-drawn tram, that it was a good idea if it could just be upgraded into a modern railway. A full ring-line would actually be a great thing for getting around, if it was properly worked out. But there I go again, just dreaming. Thanks for another really interesting vid.

[@krispykarim8504]

The part of this route I'm most familiar with is the Hampstead - Hounslow part which involves the diversion via Cricklewood and Harlesdon and the Hounslow extension after South Acton but that just seems to be an addition to the overground network. Intrestingly enough, I also saw a proposal for a "North West London Light Railway" that was meant to connect parts of Ealing, Wembley and other nearby places to Brent Cross Shopping centre as it expanded and I particularly liked that one because it would connect the (proposed) Thameslink Brent Cross station to the existing one on the Northern line (and the shopping centre itself) as well as connecting several lines to each other without going into Central London: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_and_West_London_Light_Railway

[@Brian_rock_railfan]

Great video 👍

[@annother3350]

Johnson by name....

[@user-ol2mr4bx7c]

As a person who regularly travels from abbey wood to Ilford and back this would be life changing

[@tenterdentown2452]

Hi Jago. You got some good shots that day. It looks like you had an enjoyable time taking all that footage! The only thing I would say is that it would be a good idea to put a location map up when you feature a station because although it is obvious to you where a station in London is, it is not so easy for those who do not live in London! Thanks for uploading.

[@shaunhouse8469]

I would imagine the Wimbledon Chase to Raynes Park section would only require about 100-200 metres of new track but lots of new earthworks to more or less mirror the existing curve towards Wimbledon. Joining Birkbeck to Norwood Junction wouldn't take much new line but it would be the end to extending the tram to Crystal Palace, personally I think putting the whole existing Beckenham to Crystal Palace line to the tram would be a better idea. And getting from Bromley North to Shortlands would need removing the current station building at Bromley and cutting through the town centre.

[@Eddyspeeder]

Somehow I really like you doing videos on Thamesmead. Looking forward to the upcoming video about it!

[@Andrewjg_89]

Would love to see the Dudding Hill Line to be used for London Overground and to be electrified from Hendon/Brent Cross West to Brentford with a mix of AC 25kv OHL and DC 750v 3rd Rail. And London Overground dual voltage Class 710/2s to be used on the new West London Orbital service. Not forgetting the electrification from West Ealing to Greenford so that Class 710s can be used.

[@johnm2012]

West Ealing to Greenford should certainly be electrified and taken over by TfL as part of the Overground.

[@Andrewjg_89]

@@johnm2012 Indeed. But I don’t think it would not happen. If only London Overground could of kept the Class 172/0s which would of been useful for the West Ealing-Greenford shuttle. Instead they were cascaded to West Midlands Railway to operate on various services including Leamington Spa-Nuneaton via Coventry.

[@johnkeepin7527]

@@johnm2012 There have been a few stories about GWR’s plan to use battery powered stock between W Ealing and Greenford. Worth looking up elsewhere.

[@johnm2012]

@@johnkeepin7527 I'll look into that, thanks. One promise that was made that doesn't seem to have been kept was an increase in service frequency "in exchange" for cutting back the service from Paddington to West Ealing due to capacity problems caused by the Elizabeth line.

[@Andrewjg_89]

Sounds good to have battery powered trains running on the Greenford branch line. Not a bad idea at all.

[@madalheidis]

I just started watching this video as I finished my own loop line in NIMBY Rails, with shares the North and Northeast sections with the plans of this video by pure coincidence.

[@MrGreatplum]

Very interesting - I think this scheme must have passed me by at the time. I’ve heard of rail schemes that would run along the m25 (a Gatwick - Heathrow rail link anyone?) but not something further into the city.

[@cigmorfil4101]

1:46 There is an extremely large problem between Birkbeck and Norwood Junction: there _used_ to be a link line _from_ Birkbeck which ran round under the Goat House Bridge at the last part of Sunny Bank, but has subsequently been built on. From Norwood Junction there is no way with the current land usage of getting to Birkbeck. The only way a link could be made would be to bounce in/out of Crystal Palace somehow.

[@007JHS]

As its Johnson's plan it would also include a rail tunnel connecting to the Isle of Man and Belfast.

[@martynelse6121]

Nothing at all wrong with being political, especially when you’re so accurate. How anybody could still have confidence in Johnson’s ‘promises’ is beyond me.

[@chriswalford4161]

It’s a mystery he wasn’t found out decades ago. It must be something to do with the friends he cultivates, or those that cultivate him. Good cultivation needs a lot of manure.

[@andrewberry6194]

Thanks another genius video!

[@frglee]

Johnson also has form for wasting money (both private and public) on setting up feasibility studies for his dafter ideas. Several hundred thousand smackeroos for his Northern Ireland fixed crossing vanity project pipedreams, for example, when transport professionals would freely tell you the idea was quite impracticable due to engineering difficulties and economic considerations. Meanwhile, the very real issues with a wobbly 100 mile mostly single carriageway A76 trunk road from the M6 to the Northern Irish ferryports at Cairnryan go unaddressed by government. Rail links to the area also leave much to be desired, the new ports there having no rail connection at all.

[@roderickjoyce6716]

At various places along the A75 it's still possible to make out the remains of the Port Road - the secondary main line from Dumfries to Stranraer closed by Beeching. Of course, the promised improvements to the A75 were never carried out, and so the unhappy motorist has plenty of time to think about the idiocies of UK transport policy while stuck behind a tractor or dodging enormous artics. The A76 runs from Dumfries to Kilmarnock; but Beeching didn't get his evil way with the old and very scenic Glasgow and South Western line which still carries passengers and freight.

[@stewartellinson8846]

The road to stranraer is much better than it used to be and the "port road" was mostly single track. Whilst it would be a good idea to have a rail connection, the old line was very far from being adequate and the traffic of the day was very sparse indeed.

[@Ogrecrusher]

It's not wasted money when you consider he's paying those fees to his friends in consultancy firms. From his perspective it's money well spent. It's also crazy when you think what the NI Bridge would cost, write it off for that reason, then see that we basically just threw about that much away on the Track And Trace debacle. Makes me so angry.

[@chriswalford4161]

At least the Irish Sea never gets gales, so the prospect won’t ever arise of high-siders getting blown overboard half way across having set out in calm sunshine.

[@railwaychristina3192]

I remember going to Dollis Hill and looking down on disused Dudding "Dudden" Hill. The Harlesden or " Harlesdon" Station was called Craven Park so why not name it that?

[@timsully8958]

I had heard so little about the R25 proposal recently that I had become to think it was something I had imagined 😄 At the time, my initial reaction was a mixture of scepticism and curiosity. Gradually, it seems curiosity went off somewhere else to go back to unnerve cats while scepticism dug it’s foundations and build up a big wall of never-gonna-happen. It is a shame that the principle wasn’t perhaps taken up by, say, someone with a feasible application based upon the principles, but I suspect the London Overground is seen as ample and would only result in duplication in too many places to justify the investment 🤔 Even the Thamesmead proposal (can’t wait for the next vid on that BTW) which would benefit me personally (as it would make my journey from Southend to Charlton easier!) seems to already be covered to some degree by the Wapping-Shadwell line and the DLR currently running under the trickle to Woolwich. 🤷🏻‍♂️ That said, there is so much in the way of development that I have seen from my cab between Barking and Rainham that perhaps the feasibility of such a crossing could become viable. I’d not be surprised if they start to run through trains from Richmond via Gospel Oak to Barkingside, so the next step would logically seem to be another link across the Thames…but this would put even more pressure on the formation as has only just been updated east of Barking and on the flyover to the existing Goblin line, as there is already almost saturation point at times with all the freight work. Added to that, the design of bridge would have to be an intriguing one 🤔 Thanks as ever old fruit, really got me thinking. Incidentally, I remember reading about a brilliant concept model railway in some fella’s loft back in the early 80s, which was his idea of an M25-like “Whatif” line further out via Watford, Rickmansworth and a couple of other places I can’t recall now, and basically gave him the rational excuse for running GWR, LNER and LMS express and local services all on one layout 😄 Just wish I could find the old Railway Modeller it featured in! 😏 Cheers 🍻👍🍀

[@iankemp1131]

There is currently an idea being floated for a HERT scheme Watford/Hemel Hempstead - St Albans - Welwyn - Hertford - Harlow. But it's many years into the future and is still very vague and conceptual - not even decided whether it would be tram or bus or something else. First public consultation closed on 28 January. A Rickmansworth-Croxley-Watford-St Albans Abbey link would be great using a mixture a closed and open lines and a little new build, but cross-compatibility problems seem to be a drawback.

[@timsully8958]

@@iankemp1131: wow! That is awesome to hear and something else I can add to the long list of things I will end up immersing myself in reading at the cost of having an actual life 🤣😂😅 Nice one fella 👍🍻

[@ronalddevine9587]

Always interesting and informative, not to mention entertaining. Ever think of adding a selfie? It would be nice to see the person who does such a splendid job on these videos.

[@highbury1972]

Everything Johnson says I take with a pinch of salt. However I recently researched the Dudden Hill branch as there is a new station being built at Brent Cross West on The Thameslink. Maybe you could make a video on The Dudden Hill Branch.

[@melanierhianna]

As someone from West Yorkshire who has watched as all their new Railway Infrastructure projects have been cancelled, I am not surprised that (a) Johnson came up with a mad scheme, and (b) it didn't happen. He's great for saying stuff to make voters happy with no intention of doing it or even having even thought it through properly...

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

I read a few days ago that the Treasury have slashed the funding promised by Johnson only a few months ago for regional bus services. So you've got that to look forward to as well, now!

[@kharmalade544]

Wasn't the opening of the link between the East London line and the route to Clapham Junction supposed to provide an orbital railway (of sorts) around London using the Thames crossing to Willesden Junction then the North London line. I've tried this and found (when all the bits are actually working, Mr Khan) that it's quite quick.

[@Decrepit_biker]

If the Honourable (stop laughing at the back) Mr Johnson had anything to do with this it is as solid and cast iron a guarantee as you could possibly want....... that it is all smoke, mirrors and lies. He likely didn't even realise it was a railway, or that it was in fact suggested it run in London. Plainly he would struggle to recognise either, as the gentleman in question cannot recognise a birthday party thrown for him by his wife on his own birthday. As for Boris being able to think things through, I am singularly surprised he thinks at all. I see little evidence of coherent thought from the fellow anyway.

[@williamgrisenthwaite6557]

Absolutely correct.

[@jamiearnott9669]

Well you certainly got great timing with Boris and this railway. Everyone has an axe to grind! ;-) Incidentally if you're stuck for content, you'll have Europe's largest construction project and new line on the Underground. I think it'll open 2022, unless...

[@chriswalford4161]

Don’t tell me they’re extending Crossrail out to Hinkley C now to serve London (Bristol Channel) International Airport?

[@neville132bbk]

Your video approved at 2110 on Jan 31st,,,, by your LeviNZ correspondent........ who was delighted to see my daughter's late unlamented "local" ,,with a 20 min walk station at Norwood Junction ( Crystal Palace was an =distant and safer walk)...on our visit we walked both routes a few times from her flat

[@Banglish123]

There could have been a special line to the new Thames airport, and a spur to the Garden Bridge. Possibly even build a shed on the line somewhere, maybe Lewisham for example, to house a pair of water cannon vehicles.

[@roderickjoyce6716]

Would the line to the airport have been in tunnel, on a garden bridge, or floating on pontoons?

[@mistywolf312]

He was quite obviously sniffing the hairspray that day.