The Radiohead and or Jeff Buckley problem for new artists

a quick video talking about why it can be problematic for new artists to be obsessed with Radiohead, Jeff Buckley, and a couple of others.
I think they're both great in their own right, but I know I'll probably catch some grief for this...oh boy.
TONY BLACK is a Grammy-Winning music producer, mixer/engineer & songwriter/musician. He has contributed to recordings totaling more than 80 million units sold or downloaded.
He won a GRAMMY AWARD for his contribution to the album “THE DIARY OF ALICIA KEYS” for BEST R&B ALBUM.
He also mixed and recorded “RIDE OR DIE” on the Grammy-winning album JAY-Z “HARD KNOCK LIFE VOL.2”
MIXED/RECORDED ALBUMS TOTALING OVER 80 MILLION SALES
MIXED/RECORDED SONGS ON 3 #1 ALBUMS
MIXED/RECORDED SONGS ON 26 TOP 10 ALBUMS
MIXED/RECORDED 21 TOP 10 SINGLES

[@clamato54]

I get it. They set the bar so high it's like trying to skip the baby steps and go straight for the marathon

[@TonyBlackNYC]

you get it!

[@aleksandarfrick2656]

@@TonyBlackNYC Smart like and respect - less smart usually adore .

[@urrockstargf111]

i am seventeen years old and a HUGE fan of both jeff and radiohead. my favorite album of all time is actually grace by jeff and if i had to pick a second it's probably the bends. so yes, this resonated with me a lot as someone who definitely planning on making music soon. i think this is just a reminder to take inspiration from these artists but not let them consume your art and also to remember that its about the music you make and how authentic it is to you and to some extent not about external things.

[@TonyBlackNYC]

sounds like you caught what I was trying to get across. thanks for the comment and make some music. t

[@maestrocolin]

there my favs aswell along with some others and i consider my music to have some elements of a big span of music i listen to

[@mmr3071]

wow, exatcly the same feel here, as someone whos also 17 and planning on making music very soon. nice comment and good luck for you lol!

[@twentyeight602]

Omg same!! We should start a band lmao

[@TheHouseofKushTV]

If there were only one thing I could take out of my brain and put into yours, it'd be this simple distinction: don't make music... play music. PLAY it. With other people, even just one. Focus on learning the language of music via a physical instrument, learn a bit of theory whenever you feel yourself plateau, and make these 3 things your gods: vibe, groove, and dynamics. God speed.

[@dreamwavez]

I’m a songwriter and in a band and recently I’ve become devoured by Jeff Buckley. Grace has taken over me completely and now I do in fact feel like a sham. But I understand that I need to carve my own path. I think knowing that you will never ever reach that level of performance, keeps you humble and from thinking that you are great. Like a stoic perspective of basically “you suck but just do your unique part in the world and everything will come together for you the way it’s meant to be”. I’m ok with it. I shall now return to the black hole of Jeff’s live performances lol…

[@Patrick-ryan-collins]

I definitely cover "creep" and " Hallelujah" ❤ no shame in loving the greats. I dont think I obsess over them just fan favorites. Like you said the masses want to hear

[@j.nubian]

KID A is one of my workout albums and even RadioHead fans didnt like because it was so different , new artists and some old artists don't take risk and end of getting in their own way. "Art is either revolution or plagiarism" - Paul Gauguin

[@TonyBlackNYC]

love the quote

[@dalek604]

Tbf KID A, to an extent, fits into the plagiarism camp, just listen to the music warp records were realising in the mid to late 90s, still it was kind of brave for a rock band to go that route back then.

[@pseudonymlifts2]

I think ending up a Jeff/Radiohead/etc obsessive is downstream of a certain type of personality which is prone to overthinking and neurotic perfectionism by nature, and that tendency is the cause.

[@TonyBlackNYC]

I think you nailed it.

[@paytongutierrez5723]

Yeah, cognitive rigidity

[@mattd8725]

It is not as if Radiohead didn't find their own voice by trying to sound like their idols and ending up just doing what they could. I think there is a problem with algorithms "filtering out" a bunch of things that listening to things like good radio might expose them to. Do they also listen to Charles Mingus, Scott Walker, Roxy Music, Gene Vincent? Do they have the right building blocks?

[@TheHouseofKushTV]

I might be missing something (I usually am), but...aren't you assuming Kimbra wants something bigger or different than whatever she's got? I don't know her or Wally/Gotye, but both of them have expressed that things got too big, felt too unreal and impersonal. He deliberately walked away from it, shut down the Gotye persona, turned off monetization on one of the biggest song videos ever. Her... I don't have a clue, but it strikes me as deeply speculative to judge her 'followup success' as lacking and conclude that a) this reflects a failure rather than something she's ok with or even wants, and b) that that failure is rooted in fear. Maybe it is, damned if I know, but that's my point: we don't have a friggin' clue about her and her desires and goals. Your larger point about artistic fear in general is well taken, we all struggle with it, we all compare ourselves or our work to the people or things we aspire to. Radiohead and Jeff Buckley feel like arbitrary examples --- for me it's The Carpenters, Air, The Bee Gees, Portishead, and Bert Kaempfert. They're all untouchable, I'm totally fucked. I'm making another record anyway, because this is what we do.

[@TonyBlackNYC]

make that new record! As to the other stuff, I'm kinda saying its something I don't understand either, but always trying to figure it out. There's cause and effect in everything, every choice.

[@jaspermystic]

I get you Tony. Jeff Buckley was a once in a generation talent; even Jimmy Page was in awe of him. Artists like Nick Drake and Eva Cassidy had that unearthly mojo too. They had a direct to heaven connection that all of us feel, but are frustratingly unable to harness.

[@TonyBlackNYC]

that he was

[@marianochvro]

This is why Mac Demarco and Beach House were able to make it. They don't sound like either

[@TonyBlackNYC]

Love BH, I'll have to check out Demarco. thanks.

[@snickitysnack1571]

New artist from nyc here. It really does feel like a blessing and curse to like radiohead. Even researching the artists that they listened to just to capture something else feels like I’m kneecapping myself. Gathering influences now feels like heavy work (instead of just putting on radiohead) and ultimately, I had to sort of “kill” what I loved dearly to become better (in my eyes) at songwriting.

[@TonyBlackNYC]

thanks for the comment. Not an easy thing, there are those artists out there who have a powerful DNA and when one gets too close, its hard to hide...I can think of several. Just keep doing the work.

[@snickitysnack1571]

@@TonyBlackNYC Thanks! Best of luck to you too!

[@frankjamesbonarrigo7162]

You need to form your thought a bit clearer

[@designatedpiledriver8216]

I had no problem understanding

[@guitarhero6922]

It didn't seem to do any dis service to bands like Nothing But Thieves and Muse. They managed to break the mold, sounding like Jeff and Radiohead had a baby. However maybe they are the little niche that made it through due to their ability to bring their own originality along the way. However I do agree we should regard then dis regard our influences and look to establish our own sound and see what comes out of us as individuals

[@TonyBlackNYC]

Their own originality definitely helped. Thanks for the thoughts, much appreciated.

[@crackbaby4444]

I was in a band for almost 10 years, we were all huge fans of radiohead, they personified what we tried to reach but just couldn't ever get there. This perfectionism was largely what killed the band in the end. A lot of ideas, an insane amount of demos, but just a handful of finished songs because nothing was ever really as good as radiohead. This wasn't the only reason for the dissolituon of the band, but it did play a major role, so you definitely hit on something, and I've actually experienced it

[@TonyBlackNYC]

amazing, and I feel for ya. thanks for watching and commenting.

[@crackbaby4444]

@@TonyBlackNYC Thanks, it was kind of a bummer to end up with nothing tangible after all those years. Let me just add that this then led to me putting out my own music on a label, 3 EPs and 2 albums since 2020, so to anyone reading: sometimes the most horrible and drawn out experiences can lead to wonderful things and figuring out which doors actually have your name on them

[@martinzarathustra8604]

Couldn't this be said about being influenced by any of the greats?

[@crackbaby4444]

@@martinzarathustra8604 Of course, it's just that the video mentions radiohead, and my experience was centered around their music heavily

[@paulpennington-mv7rt]

Standing on the shoulders of greats is tricky. Best to step off before you get too high up there. It's too bad also that creators are sometimes their own worst judges. But nailing down that nuance, can be awesome🎉.

[@salishseamermaid]

I think it depends upon the person My musician son idolizes Radiohead, King Crimson, etc, but it seems to spur his creativity rather than trying to be like them. Same with Ren (although that might not be a fair comparison, because he's just as wildly talented as his idols).

[@aaaaaaaaa6398]

Great video despite how casual it was. Although at some points writer's block (caused by an extremely high bar set for yourself and constant comparisons to your idols) can be debilitating for productivity. I think having such high standards for your own work can turn 5 good songs into 1 GREAT song. Jeff Buckley himself only started releasing music in his late 20's. Meaning he probably had over 10 years of experience to put together his first project. For most people except Prince, crafting work you are proud of is a long process. D'Angelo mentioned that he had crippling writers block throughout the 5 year period between writing Brown Sugar and Voodoo, so much so that the label were annoyed by how long it was taking him. However, the product he got out of it was worth the wait. I think as long as there are some ideas getting past the filter it's fine.

[@TonyBlackNYC]

thanks. Nice commentary. I do know a little inside info that it wasn't just "writer's block"...not the greatest work ethic or lifestyle choices...thankfully, it seems to maybe have worked itself out.

[@paulpennington-mv7rt]

I think Jeff is in a class all by himself. Short of Robert Johnson's "Crossroads Blues", I have never heard another artist sing of his impending death, in his lyrics, as Jeff did. Edit: Oops my bad~ "My Shit's Fucked Up", Warren Zevon. Only other one. I stand correctional.

[@TonyBlackNYC]

Warren laid it out in that last album..."Keep me in your heart for a while"

[@MatthewSwasta]

I love watching Trey Gunn's video on original voice when I get in a slump or feel like I am not good enough... I love Radiohead, but not enough to tell you which album, because I don't remember what track is on what album. While I'm sure there is some underlying influence somewhere in there, so to are all my other influences buried somewhere in my psyche...Mogwai, Rush, ISIS, Tool, Pat Metheny, blah, blah blah... I'm not sure we can choose our influences. Can we control what hits us square in the chest or completely fucks up our brain when we hear it, especially for the first time? I don't think so, but over time, those influences change, while old ones either grow or dissipate. When I go to write/record a tune, snippet, idea, I rarely have my influences right at the forefront of my thoughts. They are there, just subdued and lingering in the shadows of my mind, hopefully to spring forward when I need them in just the right places and timings. Thank you for your insights!

[@frankjamesbonarrigo7162]

Somebody that I used to know?

[@RyanAlmond1977]

at least the current generation has all the resources in their hands to understand whats good now

[@_xBrokenxDreamsx_]

the issue of artist longevity has been around for a long time.. the reality of any creative endeavor is that if you're lucky you only really get one piece that goes viral and breaks into the psyche of the general public. from that you can build a smaller group of hardcore fans and sell them your crap but the average person on the street isn't going to be aware of what you're doing.

[@marmadukesandwich]

To be fair, the other guy didn't do anything after the massive hit either

[@TonyBlackNYC]

good point.

[@Allesklar-pj1sc]

If you think you're better than them, you might actually be. Just believe in yourself.

[@BryanSteeleSounds]

My version of this is strong and simple: don't ever fucking listen to music -- the shit ruins creativity. Go through long periods of not listening. Joanna Newsom is the only other person I've heard briefly mention this before.

[@SauceSoundz]

Having s backyard in nyc is the ultimate flex.

[@TonyBlackNYC]

epic

[@dvasdvas]

did i just get called out...

[@TonyBlackNYC]

maybe?? but I don't know who you are, so maybe not.

[@grantsrawesome]

As someone who can resonate with this dilemma, aside from saying “they are them, and I am me”, what do you see as the solution? Thank you for the insight!

[@TonyBlackNYC]

I probably will go into that in a future video...I realize that I didn't really offer my ideas or solutions. I usually tell artists that have consumed a heavy dose of one artist or genre that its time to force yourself to listen and learn outside of your comfort zone. If you've got too much Radiohead or Buckley...maybe its time to get deep into Motown, Soul or Pop?

[@grantsrawesome]

Thank you! I would still love a full video on this, but that there is a strong solution.

[@korendan3338]

What music are you listening to lately, Tony?

[@TonyBlackNYC]

good timing...i just listened to pablo honey for the first time...I will be doing a "what I'm listening to" soon

[@nachshonrorick]

You can add Elliott Smith to that debilitating list of singular artists not worth comparing oneself too 😅

[@sfrose3258]

This might shock u but I was never really a huge fan of Radiohead, Jeff Buckley, Fiona, etc…any of the artists u mentioned today never wowed me personally and obviously I am a huge lover mostly of the 70’s/80’s music but for me i would probably artist names like Michael Jackson, Prince, Elton John, Billy Joel Etc…and bands like Bon Jovi, Van Halen, Aerosmith..etc..and that’s just touching the surface and if I truly sat and thought about it much deeper I’d add a few more names but still none would be any that u mentioned today…so I don’t see where there are do many influential artists how those 4 are amongst the real popular vote…hmmmmm

[@HappyAppart]

The bands and artists you've named are so surface-level and radio-friendly. Delve deep into what was really going on that's not showing on today's mainstream media, specifically during the 80s (Post-Punk, Post-Hardcore, Experimental, Alternative, Avant-Garde, challenging smart artsy stuff coming from kids really pushing the envelope and being tired of conventions) and you might unlock what this is all about.

[@shaneburke1294]

Check out my album "Light The Lights".... Also I think we're cousins haha

[@AndresLopez-bz7bs]

have you heard puma blue from the uk?

[@TonyBlackNYC]

No, but I'll try to this week, thanks.

[@justin_jawn]

Was it Kimbra?

[@TonyBlackNYC]

ding ding...winner. I guess I wasn't vague enough or something tipped you off. good catch sir.

[@justin_jawn]

🎉🎉 Janelle monae was my other guess but people were talking about her album last year. I thought Kimbra’s album, Vows, was pretty good. ‘Cameo lover’ is a great track.

[@riethc]

She seems to be doing alright. She's got millions of streams on her older songs. Just seems to be a slow-burn with her popularity...

[@WillisZzz]

Whoa, great call 👌

[@streetworkgarage539]

Somehow came across this video, huge Jeff fan, and before I looked into the comments I Wondered if it was Kimbra.... I love her version of Jeff's So Real...... I have no musical talent, but I have been trapped in the Jeff sink hole for years and years, difficult to pull out of....

[@martinzarathustra8604]

I doubt you would say this about artists that were influenced by The Beatles? I suspect this is the fallacy of confirmation bias, specifically illusionary correlation. Radiohead is an influential band sonically for a very good reason and has spawned many a successful band (Coldplay, Muse, ect..) trying to BE Radiohead is totally different than being influenced by them. Would you say the same thing about a songwriter that said their favorite band was U2?

[@TonyBlackNYC]

thanks for your thoughts. I referred to RH and JB because I have seen these examples repeatedly, recently. Over the years I have known several artists and bands that had a little too much Beatles, U2 and even Billie Eilish(recently). Being influenced is inevitable, and normal, being consumed by the influence is where it gets weird.

[@martinzarathustra8604]

@@TonyBlackNYC To quote U2 "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief, all kill for inspiration and sing about their grief"