The Rarest Caterpillar Starting Engine Block & We're Figuring Out How to Save It!

Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @squatch253

[@neilshep50]

will it run?

[@squatch253]

That's for the actual owner to figure out, this is as far as I go on this particular job because he just needed me to custom hone they cylinder bores to fit his .010" over pistons, and then replace both the main bearings with an improved retaining method. For more on this build in the future, here's his KZbin channel - www.youtube.com/@whathobogrohknows/videos

[@billypirtle1443]

Glad you was able to save the block

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

@@squatch253 gonna check out his channel.

[@danielbutler578]

Are you sure that you don't have a Masters degree in engineering. I bet if some college would give you credit for experience you could graduate without even going to class.

[@michaelwest4325]

Genuinely believe the Cat engineers would thumbs up your modifications to knowledge gained in service and be quite pleased to see you keeping stuff alive long past expectations!

[@custos3249]

Bean counters would be rather pissed though lol

[@michaelwest4325]

@@custos3249 old stuff never made to fail, today designed for it!

[@larrymilliken288]

This is why I enjoy your channel so much! The engineering thought process-even though I don't possess it, is so satisfying to watch. How you solve problems and get around seemingly impossible road blocks is gratifying. I thought all the amazing ways you worked around difficulties in the 'try' build was superb-but this tops it! Congratulations!

[@stevejohnstonbaugh9171]

Looks like a darn good solution to me! This is what keeps you awake at night, right? "How can I improve what the manufacturer made 100 years ago". And by sacrificing enough sleep - you figure out a solution. Beautiful! That's why I keep coming back - to see the new surprise solutions to old problems 😊

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Why am I watching work on old caterpillar equipment when I'll never have one? 🤔 . . . . . Toby, you explain things so well! Many times, I'm thinking a head of the video and am correct as to which direction you're going! Definitely keeps this old 58 year old brain working!! Thank you!

[@ron827]

Pure genius! You should have been a CAT design engineer in another life.

[@jmailbell]

Your designs and Cats designs just keep evolving over time, enjoyed the video as always!

[@thisoldminewithlars5324]

I love the sound of cutting threads into cast iron. It’s like running your teeth across concrete steps.

[@duanequam7709]

I am just amazed by people who have no humor. What kind of a childhood did they have. When I first heard you use try build I got it. Looks like you have a cure to that issue. It is amazing the old master didn't come up with that.

[@johnquinn3899]

Brings back memories. Nice drawing of the grub screw. John

[@jbj27406]

These skills and engineering fixes have many applications beyond the pony motor issues. Well done.

[@squatch253]

That’s why I have to shake my head at the commenters that say they won’t watch anything that isn’t their favorite brand/color of tractor - the tricks and techniques still apply across the board 👍

[@rawbsworld6604]

No Squatch stop that!! You’ll give yourself shaken baby syndrome 🤦‍♂️ 🤪

[@JasperFromMS]

Great solution. And you are the King of Playlists. They are awesome.

[@charleslund453]

Just another example of eliminating future problems before they happen. Enlarging the hole was a great idea. After all, for this application you can never have enough oil to moving parts. This type of preventative maintenance solutions are not in a manuals. OJT still works now as in the past. Thanks for great details and application.

[@dustcommander100]

You certainly think things through! It goes to show that in some situations, there is much more than meets the eye - and that there can also be underlying design shortcomings that shorten the life of even a very comprehensive rebuild.

[@geneguenther4325]

Thanks for the explanation and showing us the first gen starting engine! It’s neat to see the differences they made or improvements on them. Thanks again Toby!

[@markhelseth253]

Toby, have you ever thought of an Upgrades and maybe Special Tools playlists? Your engineering skills are top notch and worthy of their own channel(s). These Upgrades and Special Tools videos might also be good backfeeds to the larger full rebuilds. On a related note, is it possible to have one video in two or more places: Upgrades/Special Tools and normal playlists? That way we get a twofer!!

[@Lindsay1050]

Nice to see you performing engineering surgery again.

[@hfdzl]

They make a 'dog point ' set screw that would work also. Always top content, thanks!

[@edkeniston4786]

Isn’t it amazing how designs continue to evolve, even when we think we’ve achieved perfection. Good knowledge to have. Thanks

[@raycollington4310]

You should be a watchmaker Squatch. Good video, thank you.

[@brianbell3748]

I love seeing the iterations of design on your projects.

[@thefencepost]

AhHa! I wondered why you weren't running the tap all the way through, something strange about that. But it becomes the perfect solution for the problem. Well done!

[@KennyKizzleRustyNutzRanch]

Inventive and awesome! Before you revealed the different types of screws, I was actuality thinking - bet he uses a set screw, and taps the hole partially... Lol. Great minds think alike! Nice work, man!

[@davidvogel6359]

when you understand why it works and how it works you can improve it. kzbin.info035_Xq4jM64?si=8FPWdRfrknLyDXU0 this is a video about demagnetizing the block to prevent shavings from sticking to everything.

[@phillipgodwin6639]

Glad to see that your eyes are doing well. Like the solution to the issues with the starting engines! I really like your style Good luck

[@ericcorse]

Sure glad you explained that hole because I was puzzling. Pardon the english. Great idea

[@thinman8621]

Nice fix. Interesting to see the thought process behind things like oiling a journal bearing.

[@rickyjessome4359]

Great video Toby! I really enjoyed the "try" series and this seems like a great idea. Cheers.

[@ianmorris4173]

When you use the cap heads shoulder you apply load and deformation to the cast iron housing. Deflection is low. By bottoming out on the set screw it's the thin aluminium (yes I am English) bearing that takes the load and it will deflect much more. I don't know what torque you used but trust me it won't take much to distort the journal. I have a lifetime in the seal industry and dealing with such problems. Anyway love what you do.

[@squatch253]

I’ve answered this same question a few times here already, but to recap - It would take well more force than what this set screw could apply to cause any distortion to the bearing, plus it’s not very tight because I just used the short leg of the Allen wrench to cinch it. Because of the press fit in the block bore, there isn’t any surrounding material that can move in order to allow the immediate area engaging the set screw to drop. In the case that it did distort a bit, the material surrounding the set screw is still up in a recessed oil distribution groove that’s removed from the actual bearing surface, which can be seen in the part of the video where I used the mirror to look up at it. Also, the interference fit of the threads at the bottom of the hole doesn’t push down on the material, rather distributes it outward radially. And all the threads being cut in unison through the block bore and then into the bearing work with each other to resist either component from being moved away from their mating surfaces 👍

[@funone8716]

@@squatch253 "It would take well more force than what this set screw could apply to cause any distortion to the bearing" .......As a machinist (43 years and counting) I say absolutely wrong.

[@mikemorse8592]

Eaton uses that reverse cut oil groove on the input shafts of the Roadranger transmission absolutely ingenious and stone cold reliable. No seal to change or fail and they don’t leak maybe a little weep here and there

[@nathancarlisle2801]

That’s an elegant update to the updated pin, I like the revision

[@jamesflett1887]

This is exactly why your opinions are valued. Every thing thought through to the last detail. Brilliant stuff 👌

[@texasjetman]

Awesome detailed explanation Squatch I sure hope the new followers will take the time to watch that TRY Tri BILD series from start to finish. It’s an excellent documentary on these little pony motors. Impossible not to learn at least one thing if not 100 during the series

[@duron700r]

Neat upgrade. Not a Cat guy but this surely falls in the tips and tricks section of anyone with a mechanical bent.

[@squatch253]

Thanks! Yeah I have to shake my head at some commenters that tell me they're unhappy with my feeds when I don't make videos about their favorite color/brand of machine - I get that to a certain extent but for the most part, everything on here will still apply to some extent across the board. The tricks and techniques are all the same once you go deeper than the paint on the hood :-)

[@truthhurts8551]

Glad you are back and getting back in the groove.

[@scottforrest-di3wk]

Great job I have always tried different ways to keep bearings and bushings in place in automatic transmissions like to see other peoples ideas nice professional job .I watched one of your shows and heard you worked on ford transmissions much respect.I have been transmission tech for 39 years on all brands and know how much patients and knowledge it takes again nice job

[@squatch253]

Thanks, yes I ran the “transmission bench” for 20 years at the Ford dealer, and saw a lot of changes in that relatively short time. But one thing that stayed constant was a bit of advice I got from an experienced transmission tech when I was just starting out, he said “When you rebuild anything, the #1 rule is that it’s going to take what it takes to be right, nothing less.” It sounds overly simple, but that statement spoke volumes in the years to come doing the countless rebuilds and making sure not to cut any corners 👍

[@stejac51]

...An EXCELLENT fix ... OUTSTANDING !!

[@ryanridgely7807]

I always like your tech illustrations. Just a great aesthetic quality to them.

[@jayfojtik5262]

I thoroughly enjoy your CAT start motor projects. Just amazes me to watch you make them so much better. Even though I watched the Try Build series once already, this makes me want to go back and watch that again!

[@clydeschwartz]

Excellent video I like that way of using the set screw to retain the bearing. Keep up the great videos

[@randychapman2182]

Love your attention to detail

[@halsnyder296]

I’ve gone back and started the Swamp Angel build again. I watched it as it happened, and by playlist. I wasn’t looking for anything specific when I was watching playlist. I’m watching the videos in chronological order this time (takes more work) because the Story is better! For me. Of course if I ever get into an old crawler I’ll live in the playlists! Merry Christmas!

[@lordcaptainvonthrust3rd]

Genius solution and beautiful work, Squatch

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Definitely enjoyed the Tri build! Knew exactly what you were doing at the start of the video!

[@RMRifles]

You could cross drill horizontally in a + pattern in the base of the head on the bolt. Thus retaining the benefit of the head controlling depth and retention but get oil passage ways from the sides as well as the top

[@RobertBrothersJr-dc7nr]

Great job reengineering the bearing retainer. Also great job explaining how and why you made the modification. This video was definitely worth doing. I throughly enjoy your videos Toby, thanks.

[@frontagulus]

I took a different approach on mine - I milled the block and crank and installed thrust bearings front and rear so the main bearings don't have to carry any thrust load. I think it's a superior method because it provides more thrust surface and the thrust is direct to the block / crank cover. Milled the thrust bearings, which are essentially sintered bronze washers to provide the desired axial float

[@pierredupond8061]

Hi. Could it be possible de solder a washer to a set screw ? Your solution is great, but it need to carefully tap to keep the stopping part.

[@coreyorchel]

Thanks for that video, and the detailed explanation. Took my mind off work for a while.

[@billkahl1147]

That's a great idea for solving the problem!

[@ternsjohn4810]

A friend of mine has one of these in original working condition. He also has the oldest known CAT diesel in North America

[@Denis-tu1pd]

My 1926 Oldsmobile has that same design except alot more prominent and the transmission housing and 10:08 rear end Pinon shaft and housing .both input and output transmission housing and rear end housings are case auger groves to match the shafts. The 600 weight in those days was like a grease. Denis from Santa Rosa CA merry Christmas and happy new to you and your family from ours

[@LoggerLloyd]

Nice upgrade.

[@bobjohnston8316]

The manufacturers tend to forget these earliest of the early production items with respect to issues in service and parts availability. I know, Toby, that you are familiar with the Ford N series tractors. The earliest of the 9N’s is my forte and I own several of them. Up until around serial 9N 700 Ford made changes on the fly. I have 9N 57 here and the differences with later production would make a list. Where’s the oil filter? Oops they had it in a different place! There are block differences, too. I’m sure that you would agree that it’s just part of the fun and challenge in restoring old iron! Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!

[@squatch253]

You’re absolutely right, I love digging into all of the production changes from the earliest “rough draft” if you will, to the last and most refined “final edition” of a model run. And it takes a lot of looking at different examples of that one model to start to piece all of the design history together, but once you learn it inside and out, there is usually quite an interesting story to tell 👍

[@howardmcadams3852]

Thanks Sir for sharing all this information with us. Thanks Again Sir

[@ronaldbradley9949]

I wondered why you did use set screws when I first saw what you done 8n the beginning. Things like that were common repairs in the in house machine shop at the factory I retired from.

[@richiebraz]

Great idea. Merry Christmas to you and all the family.

[@kevinpulver4027]

VW bugs also used that scroll cut on the crank and no oil seal. I remember being blown away as a young man when I first saw that.

[@squatch253]

The Cat D2 and D4 diesel engines of this same time period also had the oil scroll on the rear main bearing, no actual seal in the back at all. The one on the D2 #5J1113 can be seen in one of the episodes in the Diesel Engine Rebuild playlist :-)

[@thomashaley7657]

Great videos Brother! I have learned a lot from you. I do mostly weld and fab along with some machine work in a large ammo plant. Thanks for the education. Hope the eyes are doing well. Thomas, Mississippi!!

[@corpnut2906]

Love this channel and your knowledge is awsome even when you run into something that makes you hmmmm, you end up getting it figured out been following you before the 1113 series started keep it up brother

[@kevinmaas3991]

Another Excellent video. Thank you.

[@edsmachine93]

Good modification. Good idea. Merry Christmas to you and your family.

[@daohnstad]

What an interesting solution.

[@charlisue]

Cap screws and setscrews are case hardened, only the outer layer is hard. Drilling the hole through the center can be done with a cobalt drill - a HSS one won't last long. This way avoids the annealing step you used.

[@squatch253]

I tried drilling these before heating them and couldn’t get very far, these were definitely hard throughout 👍

[@jeffreyshier9021]

A more elegant solution.👏👏👏

[@masonsigsbee4771]

I’m curious if the grub screw biting into the bearing material will cause any bulging of the bearing creating a clearance issue. Thank you for the wonderful videos! Always look forward to seeing you pop up in my feed!

[@squatch253]

Not a bit, the setscrew isn’t very tight, just cinched it in using the short leg of the Allen wrench. Plus the threads all being cut in unison through both the block and bearing act as a keeper to further resist the two components from moving away from each other. Add to that, the end of the set screw is up in a cut-in oil distribution groove at the top of the bearing, so even if it did displace some material, it isn’t in contact with the crankshaft 👍

[@funone8716]

@@squatch253 I feel if you checked the bore with a dial bore gauge, you see that it doesn't take hardly any torque to distort the shell down some thousandths of an inch.

[@hoophil]

What a great idea/repair. Love your videos. Hope you have a Merry Christmas!

[@shaneharrison4775]

Awesome I was wondering back in the early J1113 starter engine why you hadn't gone with a hollowed set screw but I get that sometimes you have to go with what you first thought up. As I'd done with a few old projects.

[@Pamudder]

A very elegant solution.

[@wayneclark7048]

I like it, on hand engineering, see what works then do one better. 😊

[@JR-rx2ke]

A VERY interesting video. What a great inspiration you had. Maybe you eye is not quite right YET!!, but your thinking cap is working just fine. Merry Christmas Toby.

[@stevenrapp3217]

YES!!! This was a Great Episode!!! Squatch253 Engineering at it's best.....as Always, which is why I love this channel so much!! Many Thanks for the early Christmas present!!!

[@raincoast9010]

The spiral on the bearing is very interesting.

[@Ckktopa]

Love the playlists... Thank you!

[@MrJ4306]

Might even stake screws with a center punch like cat does on steering clutch release bearings and crank plugs

[@karlfischer1011]

tri, try, trial, tried, 😊 I have seen some things, too! 😂 Specifically, there are set screws with pilot tips. Your way is probably simplest with the desired results. unless you start modifying castings... thanks for sharing! not sure how to show joking intent on the global internet, either.

[@arthurlake3710]

Brilliant idea!

[@drewscruis]

Wouldn't bottoming out on the bearing possibility deform the bearing? I think another option to consider would be to find or make a tapered tap to distribute the forces outward instead of down onto the bearing.

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Depending on the amount of force applied, yes. I believe the green locktite would hold that screw in without the interference fit of incompletely formed threads. He's just guaranteeing there's no way that screw can make it's way down to make contact with the crankshaft.

[@squatch253]

Dan hit the nail on the head - the set screw was only cinched down using the short leg of the Allen wrench so it’s not very tight. Plus considering the press fit of the bearing in the block, combined with the threads being in unison with the cast block bore, those factors by themselves each ensure that it would take quite a lot more than that set screw to distort any area of the bearing 👍

[@ottoscorch]

Very smart thinking Squatch..Merry Christmas to you and your family.. And happy New Year

[@seanbatiz6620]

Would’ve possibly been kind of a pain in the butt to do but, could’ve also cross-drilled the Allen capscrew’s head, like safety wire holes, to allow oil in troth to work thru head & down center hole.. that said, likely your solution to that problem was an easier approach! Great job!!

[@michelbrodeur6055]

They say moss doesn't grow on a rolling stone and it seems that Squatch's brain isn't covered in moss either. Keep up the edjumacation videos as we need to know our noughts and gosintos

[@johnnymorrow63]

Some unexpected cat content! Nice modification to your retention design! I like that version better also!

[@Mr_Meowingtons]

nice i guessed what you where going to do at the 15 sec mark :D

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Yep! I was with him also!!

[@mikemcginley6309]

Glad to see some yellow iron.

[@PatrickHerd]

I have 5 or 6 starting engine blocks in varying states, if you ever get stuck for a replacement sometime.

[@markwitkop7022]

By the way. Just so you know. the number 3 is expressed as ( Tri ) not ( Try ) Chuckle- chuckle. Love your videos. 😂

[@richardphelan8414]

Toby is right on top of it another great idea

[@unclewoobie1694]

That’s a great fix,I’m curious if you measured the bore of the bearing before and after installing the set screw to make sure it didn’t push down slightly when it came to the unthreaded portion.

[@squatch253]

There’s no way that set screw could apply enough force to distort the bearing, because of its press fit in the block, another area of the bearing would also have to move to allow any downward movement from the top, and that’s not possible. Plus the fact that the threads are all cut in unison between the block bore and bearing, they work to maintain position of the two parts in relation to one another as well. The slight interference fit of the threads at the bottom of the bore all get directed outwards, not down 👍

[@blackhouseengineering5386]

Not sure I fully agree with that. I too would be concerned about forces generated down towards the centreline tweaking the bushing. A couple of options spring to mind, maybe stick with the original low head screw fix but slit it down with a cutting disc to provide an oil path at the correct level, otherwise add an operation and slightly counterbore the boss to lower the screw head. Either way knowing your mechanical sympathy and "feel" I'm positive that set screw was tightened to precisely the correct torque to avoid distortion. Surprised your thumb didn't click!😂

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

4:38 something that might streamline your process, instead of a bunch of machining on a machine bolt consider using a threaded insert.

[@paulpochan9631]

Squatch.... have you tried the "new" orange thread locker...?? Supposed to hold like the red, but removes like the blue.....

[@KevinJones-pj8kx]

You could have tried a button head cap screw. Short domed head and you could drill it as well like you are doing but it would bottom like your cap screw did.

[@funone8716]

Way better idea

[@TMxl-w5t]

Great work Youngman 👍👍👌👌

[@jimthode]

I think I like the raised head threaded screw better with two new oil holes. The problem with the tempered allen screw is that it would be hard to remove because the allen wrench will likely strip out because of the softened screw.

[@squatch253]

I don't believe that will be an issue, because it's not cinched in tight at all (only used the short leg of the allen wrench) plus a touch of heat re-liquifies the Loctite and makes it release its hold, so removal will be easy. I'm actually more concerned about taking the other raised head allen screws out someday, as I had to mill the OD of their heads down so far to get them to fit in the oil pockets that it made them very thin-walled around the hex drive and I did have one of them split out when putting it in. This recessed set screw setup still has all of its "meat" around the hex drive :-)

[@kevinblack3223]

Awesome job and great description on the project

[@seniorelectrician6831]

Great solution!

[@Continental1997]

Outstanding professor!

[@larrydavidson3402]

Great idea as always Toby.

[@aussiedazvk4djh889]

That a very good idea Squtchy. 👍

[@charlesward8196]

So, when the 1st generation starting engine threw a connecting rod because the operator(s) just shut off the fuel supply instead of running the carburetor dry, diluted the starting engine oil, and the broken rod broke a chunk out of the cylinder skirt casting, is that not going to be an issue ? Do the piston rings not reach the broken skirt during a normal piston stroke, or are you not going to do a complete rebuild and return to service on that block?

[@squatch253]

Back in the "Try-Build" Ep.14 we covered the situations were you will find thrown connecting rod damage (aka missing chunks) out of the bottoms of these cylinder bores, and what to do with them at the 4:10 mark here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/an-anmpuiLV1kJI Also see the reply I made under Neilshep's comment that I pinned up to the top of the comments here, where I stated that the young man that owns this starting engine will be doing the assembly and test running of this engine, he just had me do a couple of things to it that he was not set up to do himself. I also included a link to his KZbin channel there :-)

[@te_gucci303]

I got the exact solution to your set screw problem that will take alot less work and thinking use a threadsert theyre already hollow in the center and you wont loose your temper having to drill and they have a lip on them to stop from going to far down you will have to counterbore it so the lip sets properly but this is the proper solution i do believe

[@te_gucci303]

Depending on how deep you counterbore it will either be flush or recessed as well.

[@waynep343]

Without the oil seal. How do you line bore the block. Did you machine a flanged bar support that fits almost all the way across the crankcase. With the back side of it counter sunk so you could mount the cover on it at the same time to allow you to bore both block and cover at the same time using long bolts to hold it to the block. I don't recall the diameter of your boring bar but you might be able to use ac compressor pulley double row bearings to support the bar

[@squatch253]

I have no way of line boring these early blocks, since my adaptor sleeve used that oil seal bore for mounting. Luckily I didn’t need to line bore this one because it had never spun a bearing, so these new bearings are the new Cat replacements 👍