The REAL Cost of Harvesting My Own Silage! | I Was Shocked by the Result!

[@fatbaby8193]

This is exactly why a farmer like me or someone interested in agriculture watches your videos, truthful honest facts that no other KZbinr shows!keep up the great content!👏🏻

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Thanks! I do want to try and offer something different at times! 😅

[@ryanlennox684]

I must be a nerd too, love this level of analysis. A big key in any outsourcing decision is quality gained/lost. Your production quality if anything is higher in house as you can go when it suits you.

[@tomgreene1843]

This must be a very big factor ...but I imagine the number of acres you harvest is very significant due to the high fixed costs of machinery?

[@georginaorwell7944]

I've only been on a farm a few times in my life, so I wonder sometimes what I'm doing here. Guess it's 'cause I love to watch anyone who works smart and happily! Thanks for your content - and contentment!

[@tonymckeage1028]

Great Video Andrew, while the costs are important, the key issues are the convenience, of getting the job done quickly, resulting in quality silage! Thanks for sharing

[@Johnydeere30]

Don't forget this is for a multi-cut system. There is a massive difference in the work involved lifting a multi-cut crop compared to a 2 crop system and £100/ac is all that contractors in your area are charging for a 2 cut system (less the compactor). A multi-cut can be done a good bit cheaper. More often than not I would say my customers get their grass into the pit sooner than if they were doing it themselves, farmers are more demanding of the contractor than they are of themselves. Then again I have a relatively manageable amount of customers compared to others who have twice the amount of work to get around. Also Andrew, I use the cost of replacement of a machine. For example, if it costs £60,000 to replace a tractor with 6000 less engine hours that works out at £10/hr. Add servicing, fuel, implement, driver etc. after that. This gives a more balanced cost, as I couldn't be changing prices up and down based on the level of investment in machinery every year.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

We don't replace machines, we just kinda keep them forever so that doesn't really work for me. 😅 Multicut definitely makes a big difference to the cost effectiveness

[@TheBIGlittleFarmer]

Great video. Be interesting to see a forage wagon compared on price to!

[@ghostrider7688]

Any man cutting his own silage is living the dream and you can tell you are enjoying Andrew but not in a cocky or arrogant way . This is very helpful knowledge for farmers and contractors lol 👍🏻

[@FarmTheoryNI]

I do enjoy it! 😅

[@mickmurphy1132]

Fantastic detail and analysis. Haven't farmed in 40 years but am working as an Engineer in Bio-pharma and your numbers plus approach would work anywhere. Fair play

[@philipkimber6302]

Love these details. Very fair look at system. 4cut has so many benefits. I loved doing silage too.

[@FredMurphy-d1n]

Brilliant video.honesty and intelligence in agriculture!!!itll never catch on

[@DannyRice01]

I'm glad you updated this!! We mow and ted our own and our contractor is £75 for the harvester, rake, 3 18ton trailers and a Volvo on the pit. Dad rolls in the 3080 that's his happy place 😂. Also speaking of repairs PLEASE check the bolts on the gearbox on your 3336 mower the 90⁰ gearbox off the tractor. It's hung on four tiny bolts, and you don't want to match the repair bill we had when it...maybe...fell off!

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Great advice! 😅

[@tomcochrane6951]

Where is your farm Danny?

[@DannyRice01]

@@tomcochrane6951 Co Down near the Mournes. How about yourself?

[@GreenGrassDairyInsights]

Your videos never cease to amaze. Really appreciate the quality, transparency and neutrality with which you share information to help everyone make farming a better business 👍🏻

[@FarmTheoryNI]

When I was younger I found the good farmers would never share their information, it annoyed me alot! 😅

[@MexEnn-v9x]

@@FarmTheoryNI You are seen as a competitor not a team mate unfortunately. I suppose its an old school approach. If this mindset were to change it would create a continental approach to who the actual competitors are and how they could be taken on. ( farmer protests against Gov/corp narative)

[@MrDT82]

Brilliant video. Doing the sums nobody wants to look at. 👏

[@seanbirkle5553]

Good video, In our area of england contractors charge for a 4 cut system around 60 and 65 an acre depending on tonage. mow, rake, chop, cart to 1.5 miles, clamp and clamp press, help sheeting.

[@MaxDinnis]

Nope, great vid for young men with decisions to make in their future, thanks to much Andrew.

[@EdwardBrady-ls6up]

U a right to do your own silage when u have the help .

[@danryan3597]

That was excellent, farming is a business and like any business you better know all your costs.

[@RST1600]

I loved this video, and how enthusiastic you are. Extremely factual. One thing I would say is looking at second hand forage harvester prices, and output difference, a self propelled forager would be so much better. Yes repairs would need to be factored in, but it would make your life a lot easier. Keep posting vids please

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Thanks! The issue with an old SP is a breakdown at a bad time could be very costly, my system has redundancy. (Two big tractors for example)

[@SuperSparkie123]

Great video and a lot of time gone into the figures! Think we will stick to mowing it ourselves and letting our contractor do the rest for £65 an acre!

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Good plan!

[@sweed58]

That was great,look forward to more analysis

[@jackthewisedog5171]

Loved it. I grew up on a farm milking cows but went on to be a database developer so I found this really really interesting

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Could have been my path very easily!

[@ronanlucid9588]

great content Andrew , really informative - the capital depreciation of equipment is shared across all eh activities - eg JCB 320 is used for feeding, cleaning and loading - it would sit in yard unused if not used for silage, ditto some of your other equipment (eg. tractors) - would need at least 1 or two tractors for other activities - so there is a machine utilisation component of calculation (some of depreciation is due to time - eg age of machine not just wear & tear) which would be incurred if using a contractor anyway.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

It's shared, as are repairs.

[@darrenfergusson986]

Great video. It is very interesting to hear the figures around lifting silage. Like many others, I am wondering if you have ever considered switching to a forage wagon?

[@sggibson62]

Very informative , that must have taken a fair few hours to compile all that data 👍

[@FarmTheoryNI]

It did! Most of the work was done many many years ago, doesn't take too long now to update it.

[@stacyloughran8217]

Great vid man ur a smart dude definitely going places

[@Modlendingen]

Nice interesting video! :) As I'm in the process of taking over the farm from my dad, I do think I'm gonna invest in more of my own silage equipment over the years. Hiring a contractor is nice ofcourse, but the 2 last years with the small gaps of good weather makes it difficult to actually get a contractor when the weather is right and the grass is ready. Having all my own equipment gives me the flexibility I need. Greetings from Norway.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Thank you! Welcome to my only Norwegian viewer!

[@Coppertop-f9w]

Very interesting. Well worth it when doing the acres you are. Plus the flexibility and weather windows allow you to get optimal silage as and when you please

[@cathalirwin]

Great content. Well done

[@Andy-ix2ox]

As a bit of a nerd myself I really appreciated this post. Thanks for sharing your figures. I think you summed it up perfectly if you are in the system it makes sense but it probably doesn’t make sense to consider going to the expense of gathering up the extra gear needed to make your own silage. In all fairness the mowers are a bit of a no brainer and we do that and rake just to justify having the tractors for slurry etc.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Yeah, big mowers make so so much sense

[@patmulcahy9796]

Well done really enjoy your news and facts

[@nialldaly7108]

Well Put togetheer. Good explaination and reasoning.

[@matthewglennen1172]

Here in Aus, mowing raking etc is charged $/ha and chopping, carting and buck raking is charged in a cu/mt or Dry Tons. So essentially depending on yields grass into a pit is about $100-$120/dry ton. So about £50-£60/dry ton. How does that compare?

[@tomflynn5745]

If the crops were heavier would the cost increase a lot due to a lower acres/hour figure? Would the JF manage a really heavy crop? I know you are after quality so probably not a concern to you but others might look at it differently. Thanks for the detailed video 👍

[@PowershiftScotland]

If you are taking 4 Cuts a Year in a Wet Climate Best to Do Silage Yourself. I think you would get Impatient! waiting on a Contractor Andrew😂

[@johncharleskelly]

Brilliant stuff

[@paulbruton2253]

Well done . Great insight and well documented.. thanks

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@JeremyGibbs-k7q]

Outstanding video Andrew!! Well done keeping all those numbers flowing! You would enjoy a German farm.. data ohne ende!

[@CraigyFarm]

I think Tom Lamb referred to your video on his video today. Very interesting and thanks 👍🏻

[@FarmTheoryNI]

No way!! Must give it a watch! Thanks for letting me know.

[@CraigyFarm]

@@FarmTheoryNI no problem, sunset to sunrise video.

[@jamesmarsh4957]

very interesting , years ago most farmers did their own but I suppose one thing is the speed contractors can do it , what would take a few days to do ourselves contractors do is hours with there self propelled chopper , that can make a big difference , but doing it your self is great when your doing small bits every so often and also having staff can be a big factor , Great vid as always

[@FarmTheoryNI]

The speed we can manage it has well over doubled in the last few years. Used to be 3-4ac/hr and it definitely caused some issues. Now we can work at a rate fast enough that most times one evening and a full days gets it done.

[@jamesmarsh4957]

@@FarmTheoryNI very true years ago if we did 20 acres a day we had a very good day

[@EDWIN1MIDDLETON]

Excellent video. In the south majority of dairy farmers are not VAT registered as we get an extra payment on our milk in lieu of VAT. This makes machinery more expensive. Also, have you factored in the lost opportunity cost of capital, say 7% for average S&P500 return? Would it be safe to assume an extra 150k of machinery due to silage making?

[@FarmTheoryNI]

If you compare capital spend on a farm to the s&P you should just sell the whole farm. 😅 £150k extra is probably about right

[@feirmfactor859]

Great video!!

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@grantwalton1]

Looking at getting our own mower. Getting a good second hand one works out prettt much the same but how would you value being able to cut when your want to cut and not waiting for the contractor?

[@padraigosullivan7441]

Great video 👏

[@rpark8265]

Great video and each to his own but when my contractor pulls out of the yard I’m always relived I’ve not got all that money tied up in machinery 😮‍💨

[@djs356]

Do all my own silage once had to get a mate in with a self propelled the diesel it used was shocking! Many years ago bought a damage reparable pottinger chopper for £950 did some contacting work and sold it 12 years later for £3k then bought a reco mengle fixed it for very little money so them machines made me money 👍

[@nthnmcclure3020]

Would you do a video on how you track farm finances, like how you make and use financial statements like cashflow forecasts, income statement, breakeven milk price etc?

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Yep, plan to do that!

[@Eavis_excavations]

Very interesting and true what you were saying and being in control

[@darrenlord5439]

Allways wanted someone 2 do one of these vid nice 1

[@wizardoflolz5626]

love the content man.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Thanks!

[@FrancisQuigley]

Great video

[@alexnicholas2371]

Park the 8s up and make the puma do everything 🤣

[@JimMcKinstry-s2o]

Are you making better quality silage by doing it at the correct time? If you are making higher ME silage there will be a better MOPF figure to put into the mix

[@geraldbeard856]

of course what some farmers do is for example they mow there own grass or buckrake there own grass or help cart there own grass. and have a contractor to do the rest........by the looks of things the forager and the 8s is contributing to the biggest part of your costs

[@6thcence897]

Another great video👍

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@willyfindlay4398]

First time to your Channel, Tom Pemberton has referred to you many times . Sorry it has taken so long to find you. 😊 Great video. You did not mention the amount of content for KZbin your silage operation makes for you.😊😅😊

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Welcome aboard. 🫡

[@TEquinevet]

One of the best videos you have done. Love the breakdown of costs.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

I appreciate that!

[@Magpie6639]

Cutting own silage falls down if no available tractor drivers,which is main issue,and why self propelled has taken over. Need big output per man(person) hour.

[@winstonfoster6009]

Making good silage =priceless

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Absolutely agree!! It's just not easy. 😅

[@mikeysky8917]

It’s definitely cheaper to do it yourself. Also what makes a contractor expensive is the fact they never come when you want them which creates issues. My contractor arrived at 11:30pm for one of the cuts. Took out a gatepost, and left a bit of a mess because of the nights ‘due’, and couldn’t see in the dark the wet and tender areas. You mention stress preparing for grass. The stress waiting all day for a contractor and they don’t arrive till dark and you know if you had your own kit, you would have the majority of the grass in yourself and the grass would most likely have turned into hay waiting all day for the contractor.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Yep, that's a huge advantage

[@danmurphy6541]

Great vid..honest figures are scarce..a decent saving, and a great buzz in doing it yourself..til the inevitable breakdown🤨

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Thanks!

[@steenrasmussen2371]

You have to look all steps in your farm and where your get best price your houers

[@ronancreedon9872]

I might not have picked this up during the video, are all the machinery depreciation costs for gear that you use elsewhere on the farm (JCB, tractors) only applied pro rata for the hours used on silage?? As in for the JCB that has depreciation costs due to silage/feeding etc during winter. Another question, financing costs - I’m assuming you’ve some level of finance on machinery. Is that somehow calculated into the costs??

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Yes and finance wasn't included, it's not a huge cost, at the moment it's 2% fixed on the 8s so £2000/yr or £3/ac

[@iwillbehaceman5321]

What it not be in your best interest to invest in butterfly mowers sooner rather than later as a cost saving opportunity?

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Maybe yes, but they arnt cheap. Better option probably would be another set of doubles

[@gerryoconnor8751]

You forgot to cost the storage of the gear.

[@johnsweeney1712]

Great video. I know you’re happy to have the raking contracted out but I don’t know why it wouldn’t pay to do that yourself especially with one on the older tractors which would be on a trailer later? How come there is no rake in the system historically, I understand you’d have to buy one now and so that’d be capital required but how was the raking done years ago? Keep up the good work.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

The contractor I use for raking makes it so easy for me I am happy to pay the premium tbh. I must have forgotten it in 2018

[@robthomas3968]

What about baling wrapping what’s the difference between them ? Do you know?

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Baling is always going to be more expensive

[@jonathandwindsor1137]

@@FarmTheoryNIexplain how? On multi cut silage baling is considerably cheaper than a contractor with a self propelled. We’ve done the figures and we can’t get the self propelled forager to stack up against the bales. A forage wagon would be cheaper tho.

[@barrett2288]

@@jonathandwindsor1137 it couldn't be cheaper. If he was making 1500 tonne of silage that would be nearly 2000 bales. Must take £5 to net and wrap them would it not? it would take £10,000 just to wrap them.

[@jonathandwindsor1137]

@@barrett2288 If we work it out just from the raking onwards and forget the mowing as that’ll be the same cost per acre for bales and a foragers. Based on 150 acres and a 4T multi cut crop. Self propelled £40 an acre. Trailers x 3 @ 55 x 10 hours Loading shovel £60 x 10 hours Compactor £55 x 10 hours Total cost for the self propelled silage method is £8,800. Bales 700 bales x £8 a bale is £5600. 2 bale trailer drivers at £55 an hour for 10 hours is £1100. £1100 + £5600 = £6600. Bales wins by £2,200.

[@benjaminbauer4883]

​@@jonathandwindsor1137 For ease of feeding I'd sacrifice 8000. You'd save the money at the other end for speed of feeding and ease of life.

[@michaelmcnamara7971]

Great video. And at your scale it definitely pays. Would you be able to show what the return on your capital investment (savings/capital invested in machinery) is as i think like most of farming when you look at that all of a sudden it wouldnt make as much sense.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Yeah, I must go that! I will add it to my list of video ideas!

[@finbarreburn5112]

'DATA CENTRE' 👌 😍

[@mrhorsepower150]

The jf and the donnelly trailers are worth as least what u paid for them.i bought a jf1060 last January and it cost63000 euro.Your 1260 cost 52000 euro approximately

[@paraickelly701]

Does doing it yourself affect the quality of the silage and then milk yield? If so, is it possible to put a number on this?

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Yes, massively. It's £10000's a year

[@padraigking5185]

Good stuff

[@liampatton6290]

Did you include VAT in your calculations...

[@rich7584]

Claim the vat back so why would you include it?

[@liampatton6290]

Because £100 plus VAT is not the same as £100 less VAT. VAT is paid and claimed back from different bases otherwise it would be a pointless tax. @@rich7584

[@bryanpaul9542]

First class video

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Glad you think so!

[@damienmckenna6954]

Did I miss it or did you not include the cost of buying the equipment itself? So would the details change much if you financed the equipment over five years?

[@nialldaly7108]

That would be included in the depreciation costs (or should be)

[@FarmTheoryNI]

The 8s was 2% finance, didn't include it, most other silage equipment was bought without finance

[@johnmchardy4502]

You are forgetting unexpected major mechanical problems which even a gearbox on the mower could be 2000 pound and if you keep the 8s outside warranty a vario transmission would be around 15000 then remember if you contract your grass out you would not need the 8s or the mower etc so there's a lot more to it than the basic costs you have worked out

[@patrickcollins2490]

Some repairs increase the value of the machine plus some machinery goes up in value as they get older.

[@martinconnolly3227]

I would say that the contractor cost of 100 acre seems small.

[@mikeysky8917]

No it isn’t. Many charge less

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Depends where you live. The range is huge!

[@ares657-ni2sh]

Should u not allow some of the depreciation towards feeding and slurry ect

[@timatkinson8792]

Interest must be around £1k a month on the capital expense on machines. Also it’s not just the opportunity cost of your time . Also the opportunity cost of the capital you spend on machines rather than cows and labour. Perhaps you could go to x3 milking if all your time and money was focussed on the cows. Up to 15% more from the herd - say around £45k on your herd size. So more than the saving on diy silage.

[@marcjonah4210]

Surely a 3x day system would need to be housed 24/7 as opposed to grazed which would release more grass for silage and lead to a lower cost per acre of silage and a more profitable system again when a move to 3x milking…. It’s a magic roundabout and i think Andrew has alluded to housing all year around as opposed to grazing maybe the way in a challenging year, more intensive but more consistent and manageable

[@mclarenrob2]

£100 acre sounds cheap compared to what we paid for just raking and picking up...

[@mikeysky8917]

Some actually charge £90/£95. Anything over £100 is madness and I would tell them where to go.

[@mclarenrob2]

@@mikeysky8917 we paid £70 an acre but we will get better quality silage so it's worth it

[@tomcochrane6951]

Where your farm at ?

[@mclarenrob2]

@@tomcochrane6951 staffs england

[@ronancampbell6022]

Interesting video, but a true reflection would be cost per tonne in the pit, rather than acres lifted.

[@marcjonah4210]

Cost per ton lifted drives an appeal to lift less often at a less quality stage to “save” money when this is paying for quality and the only fair way is area or time unless you go cost per ton at x amount ME of grass in clamp.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Oh I'm getting to that! 🤣

[@Ai-lm9pb]

Put triples on the 8s and buy a self propelled.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Might well end up there one day

[@rich7584]

That’s more than I was expecting! I’m paying £55/acre for 3x200hp+20t trailer 1x self propelled 4 rotor rake Loading shovel. All Including fuel. . I mow, Ted and help roll the pit. Using a wagon would cut the Cost in by 1/3 roughly,But can’t always get the wagon when wanted where as the SP can come the day I want. Thats for 4-5 cuts

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Now at least you know you're getting a good price! 😅

[@TomoT007]

There's way to many variables to compare "diy" cost and contractor cost properly, They way the contractor charges (per Acer, per hour, tonnage) And how far away the fields are from the yard and how awkward the fields are, this would slow the contractor down and lead to a higher cost if the charge is per hour

[@FarmTheoryNI]

It's a complicated question for sure

[@jamesrebanks6194]

Perhaps I’m being thick? Why break costs down per hour Surely the annual costs of the machinery is all for silage - so it’s not the working time cost but the non working cost that adds up? In other words the capital invested is a massive factor If I am being thick and didn’t follow properly / I apologise in advance Fascinating stuff

[@FarmTheoryNI]

I think I'm not being thick as I can't understand what you are asking. 😅

[@emmetsherry]

The reality is the likes of your Donnelly trailers are worth more now than you paid…Buckrake is probably the same

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Yep, I think that buckrake only cost me £5k

[@timatkinson8792]

Bank interest ???

[@finbarreburn5112]

I beg your pardon and a byre a beef / milk 💰 💰 💪 💪

[@wyndhamhewlett8223]

WHAT'S😅😅 THAT?? 😂

[@FarmTheoryNI]

£3/ac at the moment. Forgot to add that.

[@tomcochrane6951]

I bet you could get a local contractor to do it all for £70 easy . But your big and can get help 90% of farms havnt help. And if the farmer away from the cattle for a few days at silage they could miss a sick animal and lose thousands over nite 😢

[@davidb6028]

Are you calculating depreciation on the differential of what you paid for it minus what its worth today if you were to sell it???? Thats why i dont see a benefit in a contractor vrs doing it yourself. At least with your own kit you can zero the tax bill and always have assets you can sell...... Whats the point in paying a contractors finance, wages, profit etc. I work on the principle of, The money you make is the money you save.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

I'm not, the balance is the way I deal with repairs. Depreciation is too much, repairs are too little.

[@Rcod2013]

The HUGE mistake you have totally missed is INTEREST. You are always paying interest either on borrowed money or interest forgone one value of machinery used (by not being abl to use that capitol to earn interest. When i was at university ag college that was drummed into us all the time.

[@stakman78]

Dude ive rin choppers all my life and they are just for glorified tractor drivers who are noters. And now there is a flood of cheap second hand SPFHs out there now. Its pure convenience

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Spfh are such good value when they get to a certain age.

[@stakman78]

@@FarmTheoryNI heck yeah. And all these contractors in our country think they are hotshots having New ones all the time but now it's flooding the 2nd hand market for farmers to buy.

[@Mike-k4e2i]

But if you only have 50 acres 😂all depends on volume to keep price down

[@fisherh9111]

120 pounds an acre assuming you account for capital costs is my guess.

[@samuelhawkins2552]

If you were in ileland you might do 4acres an hour with that outfit

[@FarmTheoryNI]

You would need an insane crop to go that slow

[@concernedcitizen3163]

what rubbish is that ?

[@multipower617]

But a contractor doesn't charge £100 per acre

[@CharlesYeo-qs6nb]

I know you think your nerdy but come on you forgot service oil, filters, insurance. Have you ever thought about or costed a forage wagon when you replace the chopper.

[@marcjonah4210]

I’m sure filters etc are in the repairs and we find/found with a wagon you’re 4 times slower and cutting 150acs a day is not really possible

[@Rmac-eb2zb]

@@marcjonah4210 bull shit. 2 wagon lifted 145 in 8 hours here

[@marcjonah4210]

@@Rmac-eb2zb well thats twice as slow at least and in a light crop or heavy crop? I’m not aiming for a pissing contest but have a wagon and have changed systems and we pick up 4 times quicker…

[@FarmTheoryNI]

I did include service costs, didn't include insurance

[@rogerhall1638]

I must be a nerd. This is great😂

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Welcome fellow nerd. 😅

[@serhatdemir3509]

a great video...next video title ‘'The cost of 1 litre of milk''

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Great idea! Let's do that!

[@willholliday3537]

Did you talk about cost of your own labour and your own time? I find farmers hardly ever think about the cost of there own time, and whats lost when they arent doing other things.

[@MrDT82]

Watch the video. All this is covered

[@FarmTheoryNI]

I covered that extensively. 🫡

[@LittleJohnFish]

Perhaps a price per ton of silage made would be more accurate? Your fiddling the books if you cut 100 acres 6 times to get 1000 ton of silage vs 2 cuts to get 1000 tons.

[@FarmTheoryNI]

It would. We will be doing that video also

[@dayleboyd6442]

Not paying staff £15ph but pay yourself £15ph??

[@FarmTheoryNI]

Better going high on the costs