The REAL cost to Retire in Spain vs Florida

[@TheRetirementality]

What do y'all think of the look of my new KZbin studio? This is the second video I've done in here. I think I got the sound a little better in this one. My wife thinks its too dark, but I like it. What do you think?

[@kmarch12]

The sound is excellent - But you could zoom in a little. Your wife is right, as usual . . . . a little more light won't hurt!

[@TheRetirementality]

@@kmarch12 She is Spanish, so she is good at giving it to me straight. 😁

[@sarasmile184]

I like it. You stand out against the dark color. Bring the camera closer or zoom to fill the frame more.

[@kmarch12]

Comparing Florida to Spain - I moved to Spain for the weather, culture, high-speed trains, access to travel to the rest of Europe, olives, wine, cheese, . . . . . But the reason I will likely stay forever is the amazingly inexpensive and very high-quality healthcare system. Spain spends 1/3 per capita on healthcare compared to the U.S. with far better outcomes like a five-year longer average lifespan and one-NINTH the maternal mortality rate of the U.S. per 100,000 live births. That is bordeline criminal to me. We won't mention the prison population per 100,000 residents . . . 113 in Spain - 531 in the USA. Taxes are another area that should be addressed (Income and Wealth Taxes) as you've mentioned in other comments, but you get what you pay for. Public transit is excellent and inexpensive in Spain and the roads and bridges are in great condition. Safety? Not a concern in Spain.

[@TheRetirementality]

Yes, you make a great case for Spain. There are pros and cons to everywhere. And you have to figure out the best place for you. That's why figuring out your budget is an important part. But, healthcare is also a big part of decision, as is the ability to travel. Thanks for making all of those points.

[@user-lu1zv1sn9w]

Could you say, please, where in Spain is the best climate? I hate the US highways and would like to walk more in the city. Did you consider France? Thank you.

[@Eric-Marsh]

My wife and I moved to Spain's Mediterranean coast near Valencia when I retired in 2017. We have absolutely no regrets - life in Spain has been fantastic. Sure, it's not perfect here but what is? But regarding expenses our US SS benefits pretty much cover our basic cost of living. We did buy our home and vehicles here so we have no loans or mortgage. But I will say that not everybody is a good candidate to move to another country. Those Americans who succeed here tend to have adventurous souls.

[@TheRetirementality]

That's great. What did you think of my numbers for Spain? Do think they are High or low or spot on?

[@Eric-Marsh]

@@TheRetirementality Your numbers are lower than ours but your relatives may simply spend less than we do. My bank does an automatic breakdown of my spending. I'm pulling numbers from the last twelve months and dividing by twelve to get an average. Everything is in Euro. Grocery store: 776 - but this includes gas and pet food which we spend quite a lot on Insurance: 578 - includes our health insurance for two seniors on the public system, car insurance for three vehicles, insurance for two motorcycles and home owners insurance for our house and apartment in town Utilities: 433 - my wife uses about 50 Euro per month water in the garden. Internet and electricity for house and apartment. My wife has a kiln and that pushes our electricity bill up by at least 50. Taking away the apartment expense probably subtracts 100. It includes two cell plans too. Health 240 - medicine and all other expenses not covered by insurance Leisure 150 - musical performances and such Restaurants: 330 - restaurants are quite affordable so we eat out more often Now this doesn't cover things like travel. We take trips 3-4 times a year, mostly around Europe. Keeping an eye on our budget travel usually costs about 300 a day for two but that is for everything including transportation, airport parking, pet sitter, food, lodging, etc. Our home is in the mountains twenty minutes away from the beach and we pay about 750 a year property taxes. There are also home expenses that I haven't included. Once a week we have someone spend two hours cleaning our home. That costs 12.50 an hour. Our yard guys are about 150 a month. We spend a fair amount on our pets. Other irregular household expenses can add up. No doubt (as indicated by having three cars and two motorcycles) we could tighten our budget if we needed to but we don't need to. As I said before our SS benefits generally cover our core living expenses. We have other income for things like travel and if needed I pull from savings if there's a bigger expense but I try to avoid doing that. Hope you find this useful.

[@Eric-Marsh]

But one more thought: Grocery store: 776 Insurance: 578 Utilities: 433 Living in Europe: priceless

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Appreciate the shout-out, Jeff! And thanks for sharing all the detail on your budget. Cheers, Eric @2SidesofFI

[@TheRetirementality]

Yea Mon! I hope you got some value out of the Spain budget I posted and maybe you can extrapolate some of those numbers to your life.

[@maribelletaveras8602]

Thank you for this information. Yes, I definitely would love to see a video on the cost of living in Puerto Rico! As soon as possible, please! 🇵🇷👍🏽

[@terrybogart589]

We live.in PR! Been here a while...Arrived on our sailboat, and then bought a condo.

[@loriwiedeman9149]

Thank you 👍 love the comparison of cost of living. My husband and I are definitely thinking the same and have not decided where would be best. Appreciate your hard work in putting this and other videos together. Keep them coming 👏

[@TheRetirementality]

Thank you! As long as y'all keep watching and talking sweet to me like this, I'll keep making them. 😁🤩

[@mikesirvivor6107]

I don't think the comparison is fair on several things. Not everyone is in your situation for housing. It would be more helpful to say you could get x size house in urban vs rural in USA vs Spain. Living in NY, Chicago or LA is certainly much, much different in cost than living in non expensive MSAs. What is the monthly cost of an apartment would be a good comparison. Petrol is clearly more expensive anywhere in EU (4x litre price is not the same as gallon USA even in major metropolitan area). I hope you don't mind the comments. Just my $0.02. Love the channel!

[@TheRetirementality]

My thought was that I can't know what someone else's expenses look like. So I can just show what mine are. Then someone else can compare to their expenses, and adjust up or down. These are just my thoughts on deciding if it's worth it to move to Spain. But, if we actually do it then I can make some more content to show people what housing expenses look like over there. But, I do appreciate the comment.

[@maggief7560]

Thanks looking forward to seeing the retirement in Puerto Rico and thanks for sharing the Spain retirement plan as well

[@TheRetirementality]

Thanks Maggie. I'll keep making if you keep watching them. 🤩

[@mannyp5823]

Im very much interested in your retiring in Puerto Rico video, my GF and i look forward to it!

[@TheRetirementality]

Awesome. Do you have a specific area you think you'd wanna live?

[@CarlosGarcia-lj7xs]

I’m interest in that mock you are gonna do with your taxes in Spain 🇪🇸, could you do a video about that? My wife and myself will be retiring in a couple of years with social security 401k and pension and love Spain (been there a couple of times), but high taxes could offset all the economic benefit.

[@DavidGBlair]

France has a treaty with the US which is much more advantageous for US retirees.

[@kmarch12]

I moved from living in FL most of my life to living in Valencia, Spain - Helpful & Useful Video - I don't have a lot of argument with your numbers except for one small inaccuracy in your two lists - - You shouldn't have a zero number for housing in Spain compared to your mortgage in FL. It would be better to compare rental rates from Panama City to averages in Spain - or compare costs per sqare meter. Zero Housing Costs skews the totals. Also, in general, your square footage of a home or apartment will be on average smaller than in the USA.

[@TheRetirementality]

That's a good point, but... the reason I have it that way is because since housing is cheaper in Spain if I sell my house I can buy something comparable with the equity of my house and lose the mortgage. That is one of the big pluses of Geo-arbitrage. Everyone won't have the same numbers, so I thought that if I just showed people what my numbers look like, they can adjust for themselves. I think most KZbinrs try to make videos to show people "how cheap" they can live in whatever foreign country. I think people in their 50's like me don't want to see the cheapest way to live somewhere, but rather, what does it cost to have a similar life to what they have in the US. At least that was my goal.

[@monicagummow945]

Some other taxes that you need to be aware of in Spain are the wealth tax and solidarity tax, which given the value of properties in the USA now, would be very easy to meet the threshold on. Any Roth IRAs are subjected to this calculation and taxed as regular investment accounts. They are not treated as pension plans and receive no special treatment towards Income, Wealth, or Solidarity calculation. So if you plan to live off of the rental income, you may run into a scenario where you owe more money annually in wealth tax than you generate. It's the typical, asset rich - cash poor scenario.

[@RandyBertrand]

Just Shakira about Spain's wealth taxes. Spain charged her with tax fraud last year. She ended up having to pay about $8 million dollars to avoid prison. Spain is no tax haven for sure.

[@elisabethdorrer4831]

My friends in Barcelona seems to need to spend much more on energy and food than what you are projection. They are so afraid of the sky-high electricity bills that they only turn their one electric heater on for about 2 hours a day in winter. And the shower is not fixed to the wall for your to stand under. You rinse, lather, wash your hair and rinse. 2 minutes later you are done.Savex huge amounts of water. No ventilator, no AC. Bills would be too high.

[@miguelcontreras3953]

Don’t forget that as a US Citizen, no matter where you live in the planet you are still required to file US taxes. Just asked the former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who was born in the US but never live here.

[@TheRetirementality]

Yea I know. You can also ask Shakira 😂 We are planning to have a meeting with a CPA in Spain to do a mock up of our taxes. So we know exactly what they will look like.

[@JokersWild139]

Check out Puerto Rico. Most Fed income taxes are exempt.

[@blue17c49]

@@TheRetirementalityare you guys planning to move to Spain ?? I am a Floridian but I love Spain my whole family is from there. In my opinion Spain and Puerto Rico are cheaper than Florida. I have spent time in both places and have run my numbers and both places are cheaper than Florida. South Florida prices are sky high. Food and utilities are way cheaper in PR and Spain!!! Thanks for your video.

[@Karlostorres1994]

I agree for most part. Leaving in Spain and Florida I can understand your scenario. Another thing to take in consideration before a move is the taxation. Some people make too much or have investments that Spain will love to have them in here. And regarding Puerto Rico, you could live Good with a good retirement income, cost of living is higher than Florida, at least food and utilities, I know, I run my moms bills.

[@TheRetirementality]

Yep taxes are the biggest consideration. I think most of the "cons" of Spain aren't a big deal... except for taxes. And Yes, Puerto Rico is more expensive than FL but housing is cheaper there, and health care is cheaper but not as good.

[@titimejias]

I've been living in Spain for almost 4 years after living in the US for almost 30 and let me tell you, there's no burocracy like the one in Spain.

[@sarasmile184]

Which countries are more tax friendly than Spain? (I love Spain.)

[@05glisedan]

I also met people considering Italy, get ERV and live off 401k. I just don't understand the tax part. 401k will be taxed in Italy and US as capital gains. The research continues.

[@TheRetirementality]

Yea taxes are complicated. Spain has a sliding tax scale like the US and from I understand you will pay your US taxes first. Say you pay 24% in US and maybe you hit 34% tax bracket in Spain. You'd just pay the difference to Spain. But, capital gains taxes in Spain for selling a house in the US can be tricky too if you sell after you move to Spain. I'm going to be having a call with a Spanish tax person soon. If this video gets a lot of views I'll do a whole video on the taxes. I think the important thing is make an expense sheet like the one I made in this video. Then you can see how much you save before taxes. Then talk to a tax person and see how much extra you pay in taxes and then see if you're still saving money.

[@05glisedan]

@TheRetirementality Hopefully, this video gets traction and gets lots of views. We've been seeing lots of videos of Americas moving to the EU. The tax part seems to be the trickiest. It's my understanding that many prefer France because retirement income is not taxed, and the health care system seems to be good and affordable. Thanks for posting these videos. They've been very helpful. Cheers from Marianna....

[@TheRetirementality]

@@05glisedan It really depends on where the income is coming from. I think so of the state pensions and things from the gov't aren't taxes. But, I'm sure I will be making more content on this subject going forward.

[@mariel3243]

Thank you for making these types of videos. They help us think about what we want and how to plan. Puerto video would be interesting. Btw, thanks for keeping video intro 😁

[@TheRetirementality]

@@mariel3243 Ha, I always think of you when I put it in while I'm editing. Thanks for watching.

[@willnguyen4502]

We were planning on move to Spain as well. We had to factor in travel back to US annually.to visit family. That wpuld be on top of our travel budget arpund Europe. Those trips back to US and lodging add up quickly

[@TheRetirementality]

Yea, we will still have rental properties in the US and Puerto Rico that we will need to check in on. So we have to add in those costs as well. But at least we can stay in the vacation rentals when we are back in the US. We are having trouble figuring out what to do about a car though.

[@user-lu1zv1sn9w]

Yes, expenses will be less in Spain but what about income? Can you make the same money in Spain as you make in the US? Everybody knows that life in the US is not cheap but what attraction in the US is the possibilities to make good money are much higher than in any other country.

[@TheRetirementality]

I won't be working if we move to Spain. We will live off of the money from our rental properties. But, taxes are a concern for me.

[@user-lu1zv1sn9w]

@@TheRetirementality Thank you for your response. Are you going to keep your rental properties on the US or buy new once’s in Spain? Where do you think the best climate in Spain? I cannot handle Florida heat anymore.

[@AnaRodriguez-ps7on]

Great info as always.👍👌 Taxes will vary no matter where you go( Spain, Costa Rica, Panama). It is true though, that Spain isn't tax friendly for income over $50k ( and I think other European countries either)

[@TheRetirementality]

Yea, Italy and Greece have some really good incentives right now regarding taxes for foreigners who move there.

[@joseeduardobtesh1651]

You forgot TAXES in Spain and the US. In Spain is progressive from 15 up to 45 percent ( more than 60 K income). Not very accurate as your saving are basically home and insurances.

[@TheRetirementality]

Correct but in Spain it's my understanding that you pay the tax in each bracket. So it should be too bad. For instance first $20K at 15% then next $10K at 20% etc. It's not the whole amount at 45%. We are also looking at selling one rental to reduce income and just have it in index funds as emergency fund.

[@AnaRodriguez-ps7on]

Great info as always.👍👌 Taxes will vary no matter where you go( Spain, Costa Rica, Panama). It is true though, that Spain isn't tax friendly for income over $50k ( and I think other European countries either)

[@mannyp5823]

Btw, i like the new studio, very cool layout!

[@TheRetirementality]

Thank you!

[@DavidGBlair]

What about income taxes?

[@mariadavis3797]

You have Spanish second hand experience. Taxes have become very high in Spain reason why I won’t move there.

[@TheRetirementality]

That is our biggest concern. We are working on getting a mock of our taxes done with an accountant in Spain.

[@olegkon1]

Very interesting. But a very important thing is how much you will have to pay in taxes in Spain. Overall their taxes are much higher than here (and you will have to pay in both). Me and my wife are considering moving to Spain for retirement (so, say at $4-5k/mo in SSN + IRA). They do have a Bekham law there (at 24% for first 5-6 yrs), but not sure it is applicable for US pensions. Please let me know if you know more.

[@TheRetirementality]

The taxes are our big unknown as well. We focusing on Andalucia because they do not have a wealth tax, and they only have 7% tax on your house purchase instead of 10%. It is a progress tax. We are planning to keep our rentals because the we have more write offs on the income than selling them an putting the cash into the market. We are planning to pay a CPA in Spain to do a mock up of our taxes. I think we will buy a house there and not become tax residents for a year or two.

[@olegkon1]

@@TheRetirementality I think, one who stays in Spain for over 183 days becomes a tax resident, so it will hit you soon. Where in Andalucia? We might go to Alicante or Torrevieja. Also consider that gas prices there are twice higher than here, and it includes your boat gas too. We are currently in NJ, so pay here much higher taxes than you in FL. Hope to move to Spain in 5-7 yrs. I would consider Panama too, might be a better option for you also. Please keep us posted. :-)

[@TheRetirementality]

@@olegkon1 You are correct on the 183 day with taxes. On paper Panama makes way more sense. But living in the Caribbean for a couple of years gave me a good idea of what it would be like. I think I like the idea of being able to travel through Europe cheaply is more appealing than being in Central America.

[@olegkon1]

@@TheRetirementality I was born in Europe and spent almost 1/2 of my life there, am very cultured and enjoy it, love international travel, especally in Spain. So yes, much prefer it over Carribean and Latin America. And like to have 4 seasons, even with baking hot summer. I am with you.

[@davidmorefield]

Would love to see the pr video! 🏝️

[@kathilittwin696]

Let's say that your US income is $70,000 from your rental properties. I assume that that's the same amount you would have to live off of in Spain and declare. $70K is equal to E64K. This puts you in a 45% tax bracket ( according to what I read, I hope I'm wrong ) for your E64K. 45% = E28,800. so you have E35K to live off of or E7K more than your E27,840 yearly expenses as calculated. In the US your 70K is 10K more than your 60K total. So not that big of a difference. either way the extra money goes to travels. which makes both countries pretty much the same price wise. There have to be other reasons to make this change desirable.

[@joseeduardobtesh1651]

wrong. 45 percent from 60 to 70 only

[@TheRetirementality]

In the US we get to count lots of deductions that make the income lower on the taxes. In Spain you don't get those deductions on rental income that comes from Spanish rentals. So I need to speak with a tax person in Spain so see how it works. This is one of the unknowns. But also the whole amount isn't taxed at that level. The Spanish tax brackets apply to each level of income. So you have to do a little more complicated computing to figure the actual taxes.

[@kathilittwin696]

I don't understand what you mean @@joseeduardobtesh1651

[@kathilittwin696]

thanks @@TheRetirementality

[@dannyboy5665]

Where in Spain? A fav of mine and a retirement option for me with 15 STR keys in the US/ BR

[@TheRetirementality]

We are focusing on the South between Almeria and Alicante.

[@davidcorbett6510]

@@TheRetirementality just down the street from you in Fort Walton Beach. We have very similar stories....my wife is from Spain (Torrejon) and we are looking at the same area (coastal between Almeria and Alicante - We keep coming back to Torrevija but don't like that it is so touristy). Appreciate your budget breakout as I have been attempting to do the same and this will help. We are going to Spain in June 2025 to vacation and scout out places we think may work for us.

[@TheRetirementality]

@@davidcorbett6510 Howdy neighbor! Good luck in your search. I have another video I did about scouting different areas in Spain. Check out that video too if you haven't see it yet. Different regions have different tax structures and most have a wealth tax too. So you need to figure those into your search. And we didn't want to be somewhere where they speak Catalan/Valenciano.

[@bkbreeze808]

Puerto Rico 🇵🇷 $

[@TheRetirementality]

I spent the most time I've ever spent editing a video in Puerto Rico about the cost to retire there and then lost it all. But, I will redo that video. It was a good one.

[@davidmorefield]

@@TheRetirementalityplease do!!!

[@bkbreeze808]

Content creation is a minefield, demanding. TY

[@TheRetirementality]

@@bkbreeze808 For sure. But thanks for your support.

[@surysatha26]

I will retire in 2026 in spain, i will be 39 years old, is that a problem or do you have to be a certain age get a retirement visa?

[@TheRetirementality]

You can get the NLV. I don't think there is any age restriction. I believe you just have show you have a certain amount of income and have a certain amount of money in the bank. Congrats on retiring at 39.

[@surysatha26]

@@TheRetirementality i will be around 6000 dollars a month for retirement, is that enough?

[@jorgetasse]

​@@surysatha26you need double

[@nancylopez4071]

Puerto Rico retirement

[@TheRetirementality]

I'm going to work on it this week. 😎

[@awrooterman1070]

Add in the Spain taxes and it’s a wash stay here no gain

[@TheRetirementality]

Yea, this is what I'm trying to figure out.

[@TeresaCook-de6jo]

The real cost would be having to live in Magaville! 🤢🤮 I’ll take Spain thank you!

[@TheRetirementality]

I didn't even mention politics and that is your take-a-way? You might need to look inward and see why you feel like this.