The REAL Reason ALLY X Isn't OLED

[@yoitsmegabe]

Thank you for highlighting this long standing issue!! The issue is that although the refresh rate is variable on these OLED panels, the gamma curve is fixed to 120hz. LG replied to people way back when the CX and GX were the main gaming TV. They can't figure out a way to vary the gamma curve along with the refresh rate. So the flicker we're seeing is the gamma attempting to correct itself once the refresh rate passes a threshold of refresh rates. Hence why its dark gray's affected in the flicker. The closer to 120hz the refresh, the less you'll get flicker. Poor frametimes can also make it happen because those tend to break VRR in general, which in turn break the Gamma curve very rapidly. On the avsforum, people reported it all over the place. It was quite a rabbit hole back in 2019. I've come to accept it as a quirk to the general benefits of oled. The best thing about your video is you quickly came to the same conclusions people did over the course of this debacle. 1. Turn off VRR (yuck) 2. Have the beefiest system and always be above 100fps (awesome, but we're not really varying) 3. Cap your frames at 90 (cool, but the variable part of VRR is gone) Sorry for the post equivalent of War and Peace lol. I feel like the kid who never says anything in class and one day the teacher mentioned my favorite anime.

[@128KB]

@@yoitsmegabe pinned! Hahah I love that you went so far here. Thank you for your in-depth and cohesive explanation! Makes total sense and my Philips 77" OLED 120Hz VRR TV is using an LG panel, likely a slightly older one at that, which will no doubt contribute to why I'm having that issue. Do you know if they've managed to fix it for their latest models? So many people don't seem to notice it!

[@yoitsmegabe]

@@128KB I don't think they ever fixed it. It happens on my Asus XG27AQDMG monitor which uses an LG OLED panel. This monitor came out this year. OLED panels are either made by LG if they're WOLED configuration (white pixel as well as RGB) or made by Samsung if they're QD-OLED (quantum dot layer which has its own issue with raised blacks if there's ambient light) and as far as I'm aware, they all have the gamma flicker to some degree. My particular 2019 GX TV only ever obviously exhibited it in Resident Evil Village during the creepy doll part of the game, and in loading screens on most games. As to why its not noticed by some people, I can only imagine but I wish I were them lol. There are also people who also don't notice micro stutter in games that have it. The good news is more people are aware of it. The AVS Forum even got John Linneman from Digital Foundry to look into it. At first, he didn't see it on his LG OLED TV on the same menu people reported(I think it was the Tony Hawk remake) Since then, they've addressed flicker in a few videos. RTINGS did a great piece on it as well.

[@128KB]

@@yoitsmegabe Yeah my Philips 77" OLED is only a few months old, brand new release! Hopefully we can see improvements in the future. I wish I didn't see it too and you're right, I've seen so many people not notice micro stutters, bad frame times etc. whereas it's all I can fixate on if it's present! I actually asked John Linneman his thoughts on Twitter and he said he dislikes it and just disables VRR and adds a cap if its present. I found the RTings video/article when searching for a reason I was getting VRR flickering on my TV, excellent piece!

[@xXComix_GamingXx]

The portible OLED screen I'm getting has a 120hz refresh rate. Hopefully I dont have to deal with flicker. I'll edit this if i do.

[@yoitsmegabe]

@@xXComix_GamingXx I don't think any of the portable oled monitors have VRR so you shouldn't experience any flicker

[@TheHexperience]

VRR flicker happens on LCD panels too. My Gigabyte monitor is horrible for that. VRR needs somewhat consistent frame times.

[@128KB]

Sorry to hear that, I've been using VRR since it launched and never experienced it across multiple LCD monitors. There is a chance for LCD panels to have a VRR flicker but it's not the same reason as why OLED flickers and OLED is more susceptible to it.

[@Dracossaint]

​@@128KBEvery single panel has what's called pwm flicker. Look into it a bit more 👍

[@JasonJtran]

That's rare on lcds

[@adravil_sunderland]

I have both Ally Extreme and Deck OLED, I continue playing mostly on the Deck and if I were to pick Ally 2 LCD with LFC+VRR and Ally 2 OLED without LFC+VRR, I'd still pick OLED. Sorry guys, here we split 😬

[@128KB]

That's all good! We'll all have our own preferences and honestly an ALLY 2 with an OLED, without VRR therefore no VRR flicker, it would be incredible still!

[@PrinzessinMaki]

Vrr is one of the Main Reasons i went from the Deck Oled to the all x. Had to cap every more demanding Game to 30 fps, the 780m + 24gb 7500mts ram also helps alot with smoothnes. Cant wait for the oficial steamos Release on the Ally

[@Auroclock]

Frame caps don't defeat the point of VRR. You should always use a frame cap that is achievable. VRR gives you the ability to choose ANY framecap, not just the max refresh rate. Additionally, even with a framecap, most games will have some variance so VRR helps smooth out that variance.

[@128KB]

If you cap the framerate to a stable and consistent rate, it is no longer variable. If you cap it to an unstable rate, then yeah, the rate will again be variable. We LOVE VRR, we just want to see VRR flicker fixed in all OLED panels.

[@Auroclock]

@@128KB Keep in mind that VRR is allowing you to pick any framerate. Ex) 80hz - only available with VRR or CRTS. Additionally if a game even has a slight deviation in framepacing from the cap, VRR smoothes it out. Without VRR on the judder will be more noticeable. So if you are choosing VSYNC on, you are going to cause judder if it is every below the cap - additionally you are adding input lag. Using VSync instead of the good framecap is WAY WORSE. I tried re-creating with miles morales on my AW3225DW but I couldn't. I've only seen VRR flicker on Loading Screens (flickering between 1fps and high fps). I'll try with my S90C later. I will say with my 9800X3D and 4090, anything above 120fps in spider man felt unstable. Uncapped gaming feels awful no matter how good your hardware is. DigitalFoundry has a great video about VRR misconceptions and a clip about their take on OLED VRR (they think its a non issue because it only happens in uncapped gameplay). Even if you are extending past your hardware you should always cap, because you want to reduce the range of VRR inorder to increased perceived consistency.

[@brandonjohnson4962]

I absolutely LOVE my OLED TV. I've used them for gaming for years and I love them for gaming. I don't think I can even tell the difference between with VRR and without. I'm probably just weird but maybe this is a case of ignorance is bliss 😅

[@15coals39]

I have used the LG Oled TV's that have 120hz and G-sync. Once I went with an Oled TV, I could never go back.

[@128KB]

100% ignorance is bliss! Many people won't even realise and be unaffected by it, or won't be actually utilising VRR so won't be plagued by it. I love my 77" OLED, it's incredible, I just have to disable VRR or it bugs me haha

[@Madblaster6]

I have an OLED monitor that flickers sometimes in static scenes with Gsynce.

[@JustStay16]

Super weird I have a 77 inch 120hz vrr OLED tv and have never had any flickering issues and I game on it daily.

[@128KB]

@@JustStay16 there's a small percentage that it doesn't affect and some people just don't notice it, unfortunately when you do notice it you can't unsee it. I showed the absolute worst possible flicker I could in the video but often it's way less noticeable.

[@flitschflatsch1096]

I love the rog ally vrr display. Never miss my steam oled display

[@Azrael-xl3jl]

You can tweak the AMD driver software very easily to make it look like an oled. It's not a big deal.

[@AtlasLee22]

Fine Tune Dak Areas is also an option to make the flicker less noticeable on newer lg oleds

[@bilalbaig760]

Such informative video and I'm glad I didn't listen to a couple of friends insisted me getting an OLED Steam Deck which I never wanted in the first place due to it's limitations and went straight for the Ally X. I'm loving the device. Of course there are a few downsides but nothing like a deal breaker. Best thing is to buy a PD 100w Charger or a juicy Power Bank like one from Anker, UGreen, or Baseus and have fun with the beast by maximizing it's true potential. You'll love the Bypass Charging feature in the Ally X.

[@kmdkmd-jz8pv]

My 83 inch Sony flickers with vrr but my blade 16 oled with vvr does not flicker. I’m not sure what they are doing differently.

[@user-vl4ex5dr6o]

Do mini led have flickering issues ?

[@edwardsaj]

Things like flickering are really distracting. I played Jedi: Survivor which had a few issues, overall it was great, but when I played this on PS5 and a Samsung QLED (which had VRR on), the screen kept tearing which really pulled me out of the game.

[@AmariR_28]

Perhaps the Asus Rog Ally 2 will be Oled, maybe they’re saving it for the sequel. I wonder what the price will be🤔🤔2more weeks and 3days ‘till I order my rog ally x😁

[@Steelninja77]

2 more weeks and 3 days for what? Not the sequel

[@AmariR_28]

@ no, 2 more weeks and 3days until I order my Rog Ally X

[@Cool-kaiden]

@@AmariR_28why not now?

[@dardanm3544]

Might be some Black Friday sales

[@AmariR_28]

@@Cool-kaiden a lot can happen in that time, rather wait ‘till payday before i make a hefty purchase.

[@Shakahron]

I would take the Steam Deck OLED's panel every day of the week. Handheld PC's just by virtue of being lower power and battery concious don't lend themselves to variable high fps gaming anyway.

[@joeschmoe5009]

Wait, digital foundry said vsync is suppose to be on, 3 fps cap beloe your monitors refresh, and vrr on? Vsync assists vrr, not 1 or the other

[@Auroclock]

When VRR is engaged, and VSYNC is not active even if it is enabled. You set VSync on as a fallback incase VRR is not engaged because the general recommendation is that if you have to choose between VSync on and VSync off, VSync on produces a more consistent experience.

[@user-vl4ex5dr6o]

What tv does Andy have

[@ALLINGaming0]

Why would you run an uncapped framerate on a battery powered device?

[@128KB]

Choice, not everyone plays on battery alone, many people play handheld whilst plugged in etc.

[@casacatarinaandre5693]

I use most to play on sofa at home... When Im not at home i play on my campervan, so i have power available to play uncapped

[@treblechamp8455]

Never experienced vrr flicker on my OLED tvs

[@128KB]

I'm glad to hear that!

[@lazyshinobi2861]

Idk but I have stayed in love with this device like the day I bought it and that is rare nowadays…. That alone has me happy❤

[@128KB]

It's such an amazing device!

[@adolfbilic8622]

I have the 4070 g14 laptop with HDR and VRR and its an absolutely amazing screen .

[@slargo83]

Nice! I still have the 2020 G14 with the 2060. Still holds up pretty well but looking to upgrade pretty soon

[@adolfbilic8622]

@slargo83 yeah it's an amazing product . The price might seem steep but worth it overall. The balance of power and portability is incredible plus it has an incredibly screen and amazing speakers . Honestly the first laptop I cannot find a fault with . Beautiful product . Pick one up if you can .

[@slargo83]

​@@adolfbilic8622definitely at the top of my list. Thank you for the info 👍

[@cletp758]

Handhelds are not there yet. Give me 24g-32g mem, 1080p Oled 120hz 80watts bat. So that's the Ally X Oled. Maybe in white.

[@adravil_sunderland]

Pack this into the shell of a Steam Deck (comfortable grip + track pads) and my money is yours 💸

[@adravil_sunderland]

Or... Fine: for a discount I'd take it even in the shell of an Ally X 💀

[@15coals39]

​@@adravil_sunderland😂

[@kijianlng6215]

im not sure what im missing my lg ultra gear oled has no flicker?

[@128KB]

You're lucky! As we mentioned in the video, there's around 20% chance you'll be lucky enough not to get OLED VRR flickering

[@kijianlng6215]

@@128KB good to know lol

[@edwardlashley3572]

It’s the price. You aren’t gonna get an OLED device with “all the fixings” for less than $1,000 & they don’t want to cross that threshold in North America. Like, there is supposed to be an OLED PC handheld coming out soon in NA, but the price hasn’t been revealed & I think it’s only 16 gigs of RAM. & prolly 40-50 watt battery. You can’t sell 80 watt battery + 24 gigs of RAM + OLED in North America. It’s way too expensive.

[@adravil_sunderland]

Then... We need a Steam Deck 2 to check all these marks and stay at the low price? Damn, it'll take some time, Valve aren't rushing anywhere...

[@edwardlashley3572]

they steam deck won’t include high end tech at a low end price. It’s the pc equivalent of what a Nintendo switch is to console gaming. It’s a soft landing to try & entice casual gamers to bite. They will not put the stuff that is in that Alley X combine it with a 1080p OLED display & sell it for $500. There is new generation tech launching very soon & it has a better chip then the Alley X & it is going to have an OLED display & the starting price of this device is $1100. That’s for the “base model” but it’s a Chinese company & you’ll have to import it & that’s why I mean by no North American company will ever sell this. No way. lool.

[@BlueshellGamer]

Bro grab a LG oled. Even a used one. LG CX. So good!! Amd frresync premium is great.

[@CraigGrantTech101]

I agree. I have the LG C1 and never experienced flickering

[@joeGC20]

Trying to find a cheap one rn 😭

[@128KB]

My Philips 77" OLED is using an LG panel, it's the older LG panels that still had OLED VRR flicker, most likely why mine has it too!

[@JohnnyTrech]

AMD Freesync Premium saved my life. I got a 42 LG C3. I’ve had a 55 c6 curved. Since 2016. lol. 2.1 was insane. 120 frames Freesync Dolby vision. I mean. I don’t notice a flicker

[@alistairstewart9975]

Great video guys, very informative. Digital Foundry eat your heart out! 😂

[@128KB]

hahaha thanks dude... maybe need a little more experience to match DF ;)

[@youjean83]

That sounds more like an excuse why ASUS skipped OLED. I apologize, gentlemen, as some of your arguments are merely nonsense.

[@128KB]

@@youjean83 OLED VRR flicker is a fact but ok!

[@youjean83]

@@128KB just for reference, I'm not arguing the VRR flicker, or did I mention it somewhere? LCDs VRR flicker as well. It's a lame argument. ASUS failed where other brands delivered. That's reality. Still, the Allay X is a good and solid device.

[@awill891]

I will never by a non-OLED on anything again. I've had OLED since PS Vita in 2012!! And every phone since Note 4. Two LG 120hz VRR G-Sync compatible OLED TVs for my PCs. LCD (Dumb ppl call them LED, nope LED is the lighting behind the LCD) is so outdated once you go OLED it's impossible to go back. All this pro-LCD argument is nonsense when Steamdeck OLED exists. I would bet 90% of handheld PC gamers are not even going above 60hz on any game. For handheld give me 30/60hz locked OLED instead of LCD VRR.

[@Russiangamerpro2021]

Good thing I have one Lenovo Legion go because even my handheld has a USB4 port even my handheld display is not VRR but if I connect to my display, I don’t see any issues going on maybe it depends what game I’m playing maybe just when I play the game I don’t see any results on my Lenovo Legion go but for the Rog ally x some people think that Hannah is good and some people think that they’re don’t want this handheld because they switch to Lenovo Legion go people considered to buy this handheld because it has better things than ROG ally x

[@128KB]

@@Russiangamerpro2021 what we're discussing has nothing to do with the ALLY X but OLED VRR panels, monitors and TVs.

[@Russiangamerpro2021]

@ I know I just never seen a video of you reviewing about the Lenovo Legion go it’s considered to be better than the ROG ally and X it’s because of the legion go uses USB 4 which is that was the first handheld released and everyone is wondering how good those pork can be good for even ETA prime actually review the Lenovo Legion go with USB 4 that performance really well that’s why I like Lenovo Legion go because it’s better than the ROG ally x but if they are higher refresh rate and then I’ll buy the ROG ally x if not I can buy it even when I can buy it if there does not have maximum FPS because it’s maximum FPS shown that it can only reach 120 FPS but the other handheld can reach 144 FPS it shows that other handheld is better than rog ally x

[@Russiangamerpro2021]

@ even I only watch a video people use EGPU depends what handheld they’re using even I’m still waiting that if they’re gonna create a new handheld with thunderbolt five

[@Slime26633]

They need to give us a oled version

[@PomuLeafEveryday]

Did you even watch the video? You can't get good VRR with OLED.

[@boredmurse3432]

I have the Ally X and the screen is beatiful. Not really sure why people are being ridiculous with this OLED crap

[@adravil_sunderland]

​@@PomuLeafEverydayThe request is probably about OLED, not OLED+VRR 🙂

[@anthonyharding4380]

We know the REAL Reason why you don't have an ASUS Rog ALLY....Gamers Nexus.

[@128KB]

But we do have ALLYs.

[@anthonyharding4380]

@@128KB I'm so sorry ;)

[@Olivekingafk]

Let me sell my kids for the rog ally x for longer play time

[@128KB]

Yes

[@BlueshellGamer]

VRR oled is good when it works tho. I looovve playing ally x on oled VRR.

[@nickjacobsss]

Personally, I'm glad they didnt. mobile OLED's have terrible PWM flicker which cause a lot of people eye fatigue and headaches. I couldnt use the SD OLED for more than an hour for this reason. However, once they figure out flicker free mobile OLED's im all for it. My monitors and TV's are all OLED and its glorious.

[@LouRaX]

i dont notice any of that with the SD Oled and i love my qd oled vrr 240hz 4k monitor

[@adamek9750]

do they? I cant see any flicker on smartphones these days

[@adravil_sunderland]

I'm sorry for your eye fatigue and headaches, in such a state no one would be thinking about games anymore, indeed. But I'm glad to hear you confirm yourself that not all OLED screens cause this.

[@RobertDunhill-m5i]

Is that why I used to get nasty headache when I played games on my c1 and c2 oled TV. The only two TVs I can't play games on for long ps5 was fine if I remember but pc was the worst. I sold all my TVs since because of it.

[@nickjacobsss]

@@RobertDunhill-m5i the c1 and c2 shouldnt have had any pwm flicker, but it could have just been a combo of HDR and playing on a big screen, making your eyes move around a lot more than on a monitor

[@Russiangamerpro2021]

It’ll be nice if you get a Lenovo Legion go because if you get it, maybe you can fix the result to see which one’s better because maybe you can connect any monitor and EGPU by using USB 4

[@128KB]

ALLY X has USB4 and more RAM so I'd expect the ALLY X to perform better, since it's the same APU.

[@francistein8409]

We have chep android phones below $200 that have amoled screen lol but asus cant afford to put one on their handheld? come on

[@128KB]

tell me you didn't watch the video, without telling me...

[@Guckkasten85]

I prefer lcd over OLED. Because I wanna use it longer than 2 years. Almost every OLED device I saw has burn in after about 2 years. For me that is a no go.

[@Canarious]

MediaTek

[@Russiangamerpro2021]

How come you should get the Lenovo Legion go? It’s better even has a port that you can connect to external graphic card which is USB 4 port and it has 144 Hz and 1600p even you can change the resolution and it does not have VRR which is I don’t need to know what’s causing it so it’s good thing I don’t have it that I don’t cause any experience but somehow handheld can only limited how much FPS it can only bring. I like the Legion go because as 144 FPS maximum which is perfect.

[@Russiangamerpro2021]

Bro, I’ll be nice if you get the Lenovo Legion go everyone said that thing is so much better than the Rog ally x because it has better things even because of the price and some optimisation it’s getting good

[@oofnut123]

I switched from it to the ally x the only good thing about it is the screen and kickstand. I fohnd everything else a better experience on the ally x

[@Russiangamerpro2021]

@ I do like the ROG ally x is just that system does not have maximum FPS or a refresh rate. It does not have 144 FPS maximum and it does not have one for 144 Hz which is mean I’m not gonna buy this handheld if they change something or add something better for me I’ll stick to my Lenovo Legion go because I still like it

[@oofnut123]

@Russiangamerpro2021 yeah i get that but i dont think 144 amd 120 is noticable the vrr really helps out the ally as it removes screentearing and can increase battery life. Also there is no reason for the ally to have 144 max fps option if it has 120hz

[@creaturecore13]

​@@Russiangamerpro2021you aren't using either system for games over 100fps. You'll be lucky to get 60fps in most games. And if you want a stable frame rate 120hz would have been better then 144 being the go does not have vrr. 120hz is divisible into 60, 40, and 30. This gives a smooth picture when you cap fps. 144 does not allow this and you really need vrr to make up for it . That is why the deck has a 90 and 60hz fresh rate. 90 allows you to do 90 and 45 fps and 60 allows 60 and 30.

[@sidnikushimi1097]

Yes, yes, yessss!!!

[@Russiangamerpro2021]

How come other company should create a OLED panel of gaming portable monitor like with 1440 P up to 144 Hz or two 165 Hz that would be a good monitor. It will be a little cheaper by all cause maybe like $300 or $400 or $450 between, but it’s gonna be a good price.

[@_Gray_Fox]

waste of money.

[@128KB]

@@_Gray_Fox what is? The idea of an OLED VRR panel? 🤣

[@SvGPlayer831]

went from saying its the best to talking sht about it time to unsub, i dont even touch my oled steam deck after i got the ally x

[@128KB]

@@SvGPlayer831 please actually watch the video, how you came to that conclusion baffles me.