The Real Threat to Women's Sports

Trans women like Lia Thomas are not going to destroy women's sports.
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[@FoxDragon]

I've watched enough of your stuff by this point that I half expected this to end up as a rant about how Nasser and the way predatory coaches/supportive staff target the vulnerable young athletes in their care is so much worse of a threat to women's sports than trans athletes, but the "no one actually cares about women's sports until they can use it at a focus to spew hate and bigotry" angle is also a good one.

[@nikoteardrop4904]

Preach. Hey @Steve Shives! Pin this shit!

[@SteveShives]

@@nikoteardrop4904 Done!

[@badger6882]

I'm 58 years old and I have no idea WTF people mean by "real woman". I've been told that I'm not a real woman because I never had kids, even though I did menstrate for years before menopause. Judgemental types can always change the goalposts for realness to only include them and exclude anyone different than them.

[@michaeldakin1474]

My daughter loves her sport… along with the school team with whom she plays, they have enjoyed success in their competition… yet they pretty much never get a shoutout at school assembly, the overall head of their sport at the school attends the boys games, but never the girls, and there are so many other ways in which their endeavour, let alone their success, is hardly taken seriously by those who really should… The Women’s Soccer World Cup (sorry Americans) was a wonderful display of sporting achievement that should have had the world on its feet celebrating women’s sport… yet it was overshadowed by disgusting misogynistic attitudes from the governing body from the country of the Champions and, from where I stand, there doesn’t appear to be much change at a grass roots level…

[@hellogoditsmesara3569]

katie ledecky is so under appreciated because she’s a woman and although this isn’t the point do the video I’m so glad someone’s finally talking about her and giving her the praise she deserves

[@chubbbubb6870]

Didn't Serena and Venus Williams both lose to a drunk guy in the same day? Also didn't the women's national soccer team lose to a boys middle school team? Ok had to check because it's been a whil, but yes and yes.

[@PanglossWasWrong]

Literally just found your channel from a Silver Age Superman video (which was great btw) but this one got the instant subscribe for me. Good work, and I look forward to watching more of your other videos!

[@TrippLilley]

“Golf, which many people consider a sport”

[@tskmaster3837]

Many people are wrong.

[@klarname_online9356]

As long as car racing, darts, or chess is treated as a sport... Any competition for the mere fun of winning can be seen as sports... However... Any sport that can be performed by some notorious Donald J... Can hardly be considered a sport worth of interest...

[@FistoftheSnackBar]

@@klarname_online9356 I contend that any game that doesn't require you to be an "athlete" is a *game of skill* rather than a Sport. Football (both kinds), Baseball (strength and speed DO matter), tennis, and Basketball, for example, are sports. Darts, billiards, and golf are examples of games of skill. Sure, it's a personal definition, but it makes sense to me.

[@AshRBanks]

"The object of golf is to play the least amount of golf." Stolen from @swatercolour, twitter.com/Reddit/status/677587359282647040/photo/2

[@watcherwlc53]

@@DrAnarchy69 well... the history of sports is in large part about the leisure of rich people. That's what "amateurism" was about back when. It had to be gentlemen of leisure in sporting events not working people.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

My daughter just made the local travel soccer team. My sister was the only girl in little league for years and was very upset when discrimination kept her off the high school baseball team. She fought for her right to try out and the school let her eventually, but they didn't take her on the team. She insists she was better than about half the boys on the team and frankly I believe her. She went on to be captain of the soccer and basketball teams, but refused to play softball. Softball is a fine sport, but it is a different game to baseball and she had no interest in it. I'm proud of my athletic daughter following in her aunt's footsteps.

[@Xenaboy-vt3hi]

I recently watched a counter video to this video because, you know, be fair and listen to the arguments of the other side (as if they ever truly listen to your side). I know their arguments are factually untrue though. From checking, I know what the American Medical Association stance is on trans. My grandfather was a doctor/ surgeon and a great one who even was the first in the U.S. to successfully perform a specific life-saving technique. But he knew, as do I, that medical knowledge doesn't stand still. He kept up on the changes of knowledge in his lifetime. Conservatives act like medical knowledge stopped at whatever point it started discovering things they don't like. At that point (the whole 21st century and maybe longer), it became, in their words, caving in to woke culture. But, let's examine what conservatives throughout the 20th century considered caving in to social changes. Accepting that black people were equal to white people, that a woman was not insane because she thought she was intellectually equal to a man, and that being gay was not a psychological abnormality that needed treatment, being a few of them. Trans is just the latest new thing that conservatives can't deal with because they can't deal with change.

[@kbrock9146]

Ruth is (was) my grandmother's nephew. Neat hearing a bit of family/sport history told by someone else else. Nice video Steve!

[@leejohnstone4663]

Jane Couch who lives down the road from me was Britain's first officially licensed female boxer. The British boxing board initially refused to grant her a license on the grounds she was a woman. After taking the board to court over sexual discrimination Couch got her boxing license and is a inspiration not only to my daughters but to every kid in the area and beyond. She trains kids at the local boxing/martial arts center including my girls

[@soren3569]

Sure, Thomas's times have gone down since starting HRT. Within category, the presence or absence of testosterone can be the difference that turns third place into first, which is why testosterone boosting is banned. But what you're ignoring is that those personal bests were never enough to get Thomas out of the mid-400s as a male swimmer. No records, no top times. Now, Thomas has suddenly been catapulted to a lead position, often finishing a full half-lap ahead of her opponents. The categories of men and women swimmers are simply too great to be overcome by the relatively small tweak that comes from HRT. The issue when talking about trans inclusion has to be, "Are the existing divisions because of gender roles, or because of sexual characteristics?" Clothing, for instance, is a matter of gender roles, so there should be no call for alarm when a trans-identifying AMAB opts to wear dresses. Similarly, I've been using Thomas' preferred pronouns--again, that's gender, and a matter of showing another human respect. But there are cases where the distinction is made because of sex--and the divisions of men's and women's sports are a key example of that. Take any major sport, and look at the top scores, both Olympic and professional, for men's and women's divisions. There's virtually no case where the women's statistics are even comparable to the men's. That's why we have Title IX in the first place, so that women's athletics can get the same level of funding without having to directly compete with male athletes. Let's look at your example of Katie Ledecky. Her 800m record-setting time was 8:13.86. This would've been record-breaking in men's swim times--in 1924. Nowadays, with advancements in training and technique? That wouldn't get you a qualifier in the Men's FINA 800m championships (you've got to beat 7:53 to qualify). Simply put, it's not 'living as a man as an adolescent' that gives Thomas an unfair advantage; it's 'going through puberty as a male', in the biological sense. Trans issues are in desperate need of nuance and analysis, not sloganeering and fearmongering. Not every critic of full-boat inclusion is a frothing right-wing douchebag (though said frothers are definitely enjoying themselves in this debate).

[@jacksmith-vs4ct]

You should do better research Thomas used to consistently rank in the top ten in men's swimming he even mentiond that in the video until she started HRT then she fell back to the 400s against men nice try though. And Thomas is still not even close to the best in women's swimming.

[@Jones25ful]

I used to be pretty torn on this issue until I heard someone say “you never hear about the hundreds of trans athletes that don’t get in first, you only hear about the ones that do” Completely changed my outlook on the whole thing.

[@franceslarina5508]

Indeed. Trans women have been competing in women's competitive sports since at least the early 1970's that I'm aware of. That's a solid half century of non-domination. In California, the right of trans girls & women student athletes have been legally protected for a decade. We're one of the larger states; if a statistical domination were to occur it would've been here. And yet...nothing.

[@RomanNardone]

Tell me what percentage of trans athletes exist that you could take a proper sample size of. Would love to see it

[@syl6467]

That's like saying purple elephants exist because "you only ever hear about the grey elephants".

[@FluidAsTheRiver]

I found your channel through your Star Trek content, but this is the video that got my sub. Keep up the awesome work!

[@soldovah9649]

I am so glad to have referred to your channel on twitter. Not only are you a passionate trekkie, but also an outspoken ally. Thank you so much for your awareness and support thus far.

[@patrickdodds7162]

I'm glad you're still making these videos, Steve. Talking about pop culture is fun, but these are the videos that have truly kept me a viewer for the last nine years--and have had a major impact on my life.

[@alexmuller6752]

yes, exactly that. couldn't have said it better

[@RobertKaucher]

Few people in the pop-culture KZbin scene keep my attention like Steve does. But I am here for the politics. It's how I found the channel and why I watch regularly.

[@mkang8782]

Given that he's a huge fan of Trek (and has provided copious amounts of video footage that demonstrates that he "gets it"), videos of this sort help shore up his reputation and "street cred". It's really wonderful to see him apply the message and intent of Trek to the world around us.

[@DJosAmmel]

THIS.

[@Coldwater-sw6me]

Here in Germany, our female footballteam (soccer, not the American one, that has nothing to do with foots) would destroy our male team. 2 times world champion (in a row), 8 times European champions. We really should mix them up, in sports. But we can’t, BECAUSE of this shit (and because of the misogyny in sports in general). Just imagine a team with a female agile offense and a stubborn male defense.🤷🏻‍♂️ I really hope I can communicate here what I intend to do…🙈

[@headkittens]

I still love that a random guy who thought he could beat Cathy Freeman, an Aboriginal woman, who injured himself against a simulation

[@jonathancook7616]

Assuming you read this, native 'Noogan here. Thank you for learning who Jackie Mitchell was. Not even the locals back home knew who she was. Hell, I didn't learn who she was until I was in my early 20s (late 90s). I was about to correct you on the Class affiliation but a quick look-up confirms we were Single A at one time (We've been Double AA for about as long as I can remember). That was all.

[@Stu047]

I'm not especially in to sports (significantly less so than Steve). I am very much into Star Trek (I would dare say even more so than Steve! 😀) I am curious about transpeople and what it is about them that lead to their psychology failing to align with their biology. Unfortunately it's difficult to find discussions on this topic because they are a minefield of offence, emotionalism, angry and even name calling, which is why such discussions are clipped or avoided altogether; television avoids it like the fuckin' plague! - But without those discussions to splash some colour over all that which the masses perceive as grey, the scenario that Steve is commenting on here will be repeated over and over again especially in any field of endeavour, practice or custom that has been compelled to create separate roles or divisions for its men and women. 09:03 - Steve really should be careful when speaking with authority about this stuff (without at least quoting some source) because the less objective will just lap it up, errors and all. According to the British Journal of Sports Medicine, 24 studies were identified and reviewed (dated between 1999 and 2020): It was concluded that in transwomen, hormone therapy does indeed rapidly reduce haemoglobin (Hgb) to levels seen in cisgender women. In contrast, hormone therapy does decrease strength, lean body mass (LBM) and muscle area, yet values remain ABOVE that observed in cisgender women, even after 36 months. These findings suggest that strength may be well preserved in transwomen during the first 3 years of hormone therapy. -- This grey area persists... I'm sure the research continues.

[@rainkidwell2467]

The physical and chemical structures of my brain were built while I was in my mother's womb. That's how. Also, the majority of doctors understand perfectly well that on estrogen, the big changes START at two years in - those levels don't stabilize to cis-average for around five to seven years - well outside the range of a full athletic career, most of which last five years tops

[@joanwerthman4116]

Thank you beyond words. I’m a 70 years old cis white woman and I’m so tired of this constant stream of bigoted horse-pucky, hate and flat out stupidity from insecure people who want to bring back some kind of 1950’s sitcom life that never was. Far as I know and remember, the 1950’s trended to be great for us white people because the minimum wage could actually help even a single parent make a decent living before double digit inflation took its toll. People of color and women who wanted an actual career as opposed to a job that could make ends meet and poor people who had to drop out of subpar schools to get the sh*t jobs to help their families weren’t so lucky. Trans people are being horribly brutalized because it isn’t quite as easy to pick on gays as it used to be (although the conservative heavy Supreme Court is working on it, especially the notoriously slimy/ dubious Thomas and Kavenaugh). My parents became tennis fans after watching the famous match between Billy Jean King and Bobby Riggs (which I also had enjoyed without becoming an enthusiast). When my dad died I started watching to keep Mom company and saw what a great sport it was. I also saw how commentators and reviewers would talk about the men and the girls. More to the point I remember when some of the men started grumbling they should be paid more, especially when they had to play 5 sets over the women’s 3 at majors, Billy Jean simply replied, “We can play 5 sets.” Thirty years later some men are still grumbling. More to the point: Renee Richards in 1976 : the first trans woman to play pro tennis after a court battle. Her highest ranking was 20. But hateful, insecure people are raising as big a stink as they can to marginalize if not convert complete strangers, to protect women athletes who actually need protection from these same morons who want to help “the girls”. Many of them also seem to confuse freedom of religion with freedom to impose their their religion on strangers. Never mind separation of Church and State so eloquently first stated by Jesus as “ Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s,” etcetera. Never mind free will. Never mind the First Deadly Sin of Pride in assuming their All Powerful God needs their help in creating proper order. Their imaginary friend needs their help. So wonderful to hear you demolish all of that crap with your eloquent video. And by the way, my favorite definition of golf from the immaculate Mark Twain: A good walk spoiled.

[@FrogJuiceJustice]

you're a really good writer :) I wish I had relatives in my life like you

[@mindyp51d]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

[@spekticat]

Love you Steve 💜 thanks for continuing to be decent and awesome and achieve the impossible- get me interested in baseball for a few minutes!

[@kalem1988]

I don't always agree with your takes on Star Trek, but I certainly always agree with your socio-political stuff. Nice job and well said!!!

[@l_poli7339]

The problem is that some people think that listening to right wing political commentary about trans People is educating themselves about trans people.

[@ablarousse5273]

This is what I myself have labeled "anti-transology": i.e., the study/art/pursuit of attacking trans people. Many people, as you're indicating here, when they pretend to be educating themselves on trans issues, are actually interested in nothing but learning how to attack trans people. They look for arguments that they believe will invalidate trans people. The best example of this is (who else?) JK Rowling. In her "transgender manifesto" that she published a while back, she emphasized all the reading and research she had done before she waded into trans issues. But what was she actually reading and researching? Anti-transology. Her manifesto was nothing but the usual lies, slanders and misconceptions that we could find all over the net.

[@gwit4051]

Fr the first step in deconstructing my cringe transphobe phase was listening to the actual science behind trans people and what the concept actually was.

[@trashfirefuneral]

Thank you Steve. I know I'm not active much on your channel, but as a trans woman (and an athlete) I truly appreciate what you've said here.

[@danilejai7801]

We’ll call it fair when a trans man dominates in any male sport. Until you can show me that there’s no advantage to being born male and going through a male puberty and adolescence in sports then all your pontificating is simply conjecture. If there was no real advantage, then where are all the trans men athletes that are breaking records? I’m not an athlete so I leave it to those in that arena to decide what rules make sense to them. I also don’t have a better solution on how to even the playing field, but to act like there’s no disparity is nonsense. When Venus and Serena Williams were at the top of their game, they couldn’t even beat the 203rd ranked male tennis player.

[@kbrock9146]

Amen Steve! Wonderful rant.

[@Molloy244]

I am not a big sports fan however I love Rugby, played for 9 years before injury ended my career. Over her in Europe we have a rugby tournament that runs every couple of years, the 6 Nations and the Womens game has advanced massively. Fitness, skill, tactical play just so good to watch (and the team kits are the same as the mens game). I follow the Roses and watch every time they are on.

[@PenelopeNess]

The women's game has already advanced massively as you say. Now imagine what they could achieve with the same money, support and resources thrown at them than the men get 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@cgrenadier]

A much needed discussion, well done!

[@klarname_online9356]

Well I would go so far: a much needed statement in a discussion, which is unnecessary, as - at least up to now - there is no problem which would have to be discussed...

[@PenelopeNess]

Hmm yeah no the discussion isn't really needed. Statements supporting trans women and women's sports are needed, but there's no discussion to be had. It's just the same old boring arguments from transphobes that we've heard a thousand times before

[@TheBaconWizard]

HRT does indeed reduce strength etc etc but it in no-way levels the playing field vs someone who has always been a woman, especially if the former-man went through puberty as a male. However, the real problem here is that our arbitrary division of sports along lines of current biological sex is insufficient to the task of providing fair sport. It was the best we could do with little knowledge, but now we know that people of the same sex can have wildly different genetic advantages and disadvantages. Sports associations starting with the Olympic Committee need to re-think, such as (purely an uninformed suggestion to serve as an example) grouping people of ALL sexes but in divisions of weight.

[@peenworm]

Rah bah bah

[@agediho6009]

You don't know just how happy I am watching this video, as a parent of a trans kid myself i suffer knowing i can't even begin to estimate how hard their life is just because they are who they are

[@DJosAmmel]

Empathy is a uniquely painful hell, but the most worthwhile. It changes the world.

[@katierose8238]

Your child will flourish with an incredible parent like you! I’m so happy there are people like you out there who accept their kid just for who they are. Thank you 🙏

[@jzanderk]

I do really enjoy videos like this, I'm horrible at pointing out the flaws in bigoted arguments. This is perfectly crafted and very well said :) I also very much appreciate your allyship ❤️

[@MultiMackD]

There are plenty of women I've met who can bench more than me with ease, and I never felt the need to question their womanhood and I never will

[@MrSomnus2001]

Glad you went the "so what?" route toward the end, regarding a trans woman potentially dominating her sport. I've been getting increasingly uncomfortable with the defenses of Lia Thomas being allowed to compete on the basis of "sure, she's good, but she's not *that* good." Allowing trans women to compete on the basis that they can't be *too* good isn't really allowing them to *compete*, now, is it? Plus, it means you've already ceded that ground in the event that a truly dominant trans athlete does emerge, and have to make it up again in the ensuing fight.

[@kat021171]

As a transwoman, I was happy for Laurel Hubbard making the Olympics in weightlifting last summer, but found that I was also rooting for her to not win the gold simply because I knew what kind of blow-up that was going to cause. When she didn't even put up a qualifying lift, the mixed emotions were awful. I felt so sad for her on a personal level, but so relieved that the community wasn't going to have to deal with the shitstorm that would have followed. And that was repeated with Lia Thomas this winter. The feelings of "well, if she was the 'end of women's sports', why did she not just dominate every one at every distance and stroke?" I've competed in sports; men's divisions before transition, and women's divisions after. And I've always had a little bit of doubt at the back of my mind about whether or not I was "holding back" after transition because I didn't want to be "too good" and have my performance questioned. And even then, I was getting podium finishes in competitions from time to time. And worried every time that I got a ribbon that someone was going to challenge the "fairness" of my competing the in the women's division. Fortunately, this was in a sport so obscure in the US that my presence was never questioned, and the other competitors in the club accepted me. But when given the opportunity to compete in the US Championships, it was one of the reasons I turned down the local club's offer to put me forward to compete.

[@Thunt9]

Trans woman here. I wanna say that I've never heard a cis person explain this so well. Thanks!

[@hokutoulrik7345]

Some cis people actually get it. Sadly, not enough do.

[@danielgertler5976]

Shout out to women's hockey, great fun to watch and I wish it wasn't considered some side show because more hockey is always a good thing. The one I never got is the gendered teams for curling. Curling isn't a game of power or anything like that, it's a game of precision, I really see no reason why we need a mens and womens split for the sport.

[@DonkeyBoyVids]

I agree but I assume it's just to keep with all the other sports that are already gendered

[@The_Frozen_1]

I 100% agree about Women's Pro Hockey. I support as much as I can. I watched when it was on Twitch, as NWHL, but now it's buried in ESPN+ as PHF (Premier Hockey Federation). If I didn't click on it by happenstance, I wouldn't have known it was the Former NWHL. These ladies play knowing the pay is minimal and many of them still work 9-5 jobs. They truly play for the love of the game. I wish that they got even half of the support that men do. We need to support women's sports not just for the current crop of athletes, but for future generations of girls (our daughters, nieces, etc.) to have the opportunity to realize the dream their male counterparts take for granted.

[@keith6706]

@@DonkeyBoyVids No, it did have reasons. Prior to the development of modern icemaking techniques and technology and when the old corn brooms will still used, strength made a huge difference. You needed to throw the stone with more weight and sweepers needed power for those old brooms. Now, this was before competitive curlers did things like off-season weight training and the like, so it was down to the basic differences between men and women and, the vast majority of the time, the men will be stronger than the women. If you played a team of men versus women, the women couldn't generate the raw power combined with the precision needed when you had to move a lot of rocks around in the house. I started curling around that time. You can see this if you watch old video of curling. Most of the time there was a huge backswing when starting the delivery, especially takeouts, because you needed to generate that much force to make the shot, and you needed strength to shove yourself out of the hack with enough power. There were regular exhibitions matches and women tended to be on the losing side the vast majority of the time. It was also the reason why in mixed curling, it was pretty much inevitable that the player on the team shooting the skip stones was one of the men, and almost universally, therefore, the shooting order for the team, was woman-man-woman-man. The differences began to be erased in the mid-1980s or so when the push brooms became dominant. That significantly reduced the issue with the strength needed for sweeping and the emphasis switched to technique, but it was the improvements in ice-making and maintenance techniques and technology in the 1990s that really changed things (with modern shoe technology). With keener ice, you didn't need to generate so much power on the delivery in order to make shots, therefore didn't need to generate so much force. With better shoes, you don't need to push hard to get moving out of the hack. Again, if you look at the modern delivery technique, there is no backswing lifting the rock off the ice (indeed, it's very discouraged) and the push off is a gentle sliding push rather than the powerful lunge that was needed before. What all this means is that, in practical terms, there's no particular reason why there has to be a distinction, so the divisions are pretty much just traditional. You have your men's division, women's division, mixed division (2 men and 2 women per team), and so on and honestly, the main reason (at least in Canada) is so that you can have more championship play with the best curlers in the country. Why have one championship when you can have 3? It gives more people the opportunity to represent their provinces and territories on the national stage. That said, I doubt anyone would really care about trans athletes. At recreational levels, men and women compete against each other all the time, so no issue there, and at competitive levels, as you note, precision and skill becomes more important so purely physiological differences are really unimportant compared to other sports, so there's no issues to be raised. And because there's no reason to care, there's no particular pressure to change things.

[@dineskumarragu4187]

The hate that Lia went through was unimaginable. I went through Twitter the day after she won the 500m freestyle competition to look at the reaction of Twitter folks, and boy it was cruel. To much hate for Lia who was being herself as well as following all the rules fixed by NCAA. IOC and NCAA mandated that trans women take a year of HRT before competing in women's sports. Lia took HRT for 2 years and 9 months, more than what these sports organizations asked for. She lost the advantage that she had after the transition. She won in 500m freestyle but lost the 200m freestyle event the following day. But of course, transphobes would not talk about the latter part, because that would automatically debunk their "trans women taking over women sports" argument.

[@DuncanTheSinger]

The Katie Ledecky bait and switch was *chef's kiss*. Superb video as ever, Steve, thank you.

[@SuddenJeff]

Here's a quick fix: No more segregated sports. Baseball has different leagues and classes. Boxing has weight classes. What if every athlete could compete with other athletes of similar levels of talent, regardless of their genitalia.

[@kenirainseeker539]

There we go. There's more nuanced ways to divide up sports to make them fair for all.

[@justwentfullchuu2]

Yes! I actually had this same conversation with some people some time ago. This whole made up scandal of women's sports being at risk is just proof that going about comparing people in a strictly binary way just doesn't cut it, and that maybe, just maybe, instead of following centuries-old standards, developed when the world was younger and we didn't have the self-knowledge as a species we have, we can set up new, more inclusive standards that can actually enrich the lives of people and enhance our knowledge of the sport and of humanity as a species.

[@fionavalkyrie]

The world would be a *much* better place if it had more empathy and less celebrated ignorance.

[@RooftopsofAmerica]

Excellent points throughout and well stated! Great job! This was the video that made me a subscriber.

[@515aleon]

Have noticed a huge uptick in this fear/hate thing re: trans athletes. Years ago, someone I recall was Dr Renee Richards who was a tennis star. She played as a cis man and transitioned. Maybe a bit of this, but the level and craziness now are not matched. Also besides the adult stars, there are trans children. Several states have banned trans children from competing in sport's as trans, even though esp. preteen there is little difference between boys and girls in terms of strength. There is unbelievable levels of fear and hatred towards trans kids, which no doubt will lead to more suicides.

[@ajlong404]

You are fantastic, Steve!!!!!

[@spoofyartz5079]

Up until now I just thought you were a comic book youtuber. Wasn’t expecting a video fighting for trans women in women’s sports! Great stuff as always!! :D

[@alexmuller6752]

and there is even more: he is part of a star trek themed comedy podcast (ensign's log) that is just as wholesome and subtle as these yt videos. plus i still have the "read away" playlist with the dispossessed (u.k. leguin) on hold for when i find the time and mindspace to dive into their takes on one of my favourite books. ah. sorry for fanboying

[@JeffreyBoser]

Steven, thank you so much for this. More and more, I am getting fed up with the 'OMG the trans re coming!' attitude using sports as an excuse. The sports and athletic organizations are all aware of trans participation issues, and have ALREADY put in place regulations. And they are the experts!

[@bennuinspace6688]

brilliant. this is an amazing video.

[@ThereIsAnExtension2UndoHandles]

I've been pretty used to bad social takes coming from nerdy styled youtube channels, when I saw this video I got scared, but this is like a breath of fresh air after not realizing you were breathing in pollution for years

[@jon85753]

I half expected to also hear you talk about how during mixed skeet shooting a woman won gold and then the next olympics had skeet shooting segregated.

[@Mallory-Malkovich]

I admire that you kept your cool for as much of the video as you did. I often get to the level of rant/near screaming on this topic in under two minutes! I'm going to send this video to some people in my life who have developed a sudden, unexplained interest in women's sports.

[@LucasDarkGiygas]

Thanks for the video

[@blueribbs6490]

i found your channel through your batman content, and every time i come across comic book content i'm always a liiiittle bit wary because there is a LOT of bigotry within the comics community. so it is a very nice breath of fresh air to hear this and i'm glad that you're not an idiot like that. as a trans woman i say thank you for saying this.

[@emagotis]

Ok, that's a nice Perspective. Thank you for that!

[@QwertyCaesar]

The NFL and NCAA football season is over - I hear a lot of folks complain about there being "no football" for nine months but the Women's Football Alliance season starts next weekend, a full three weeks before the NFL draft.

[@mr.l5071]

I definitely agree with you, Steve. Keep up the great work and stay safe and healthy.

[@CalliaaTCG]

Thank you for this Steve. There is so much hate being directed at us trans people right now. I needed the reminder that there are cis Allie’s that will passionately push back against this kind of stuff. I almost never comment but I love you content.

[@omitn2011]

This just won me over as a subscriber

[@GardensAndGames]

A sport Steve didn't mention: Lindsey Vonn is almost inarguably the greatest alpine ski racer of all time.

[@jenniferseibert2470]

Thank you for this. A lot of people don't stop to think that this controversy hasn't happened in a vacuum. For one thing, the IOC and the NCAA haven't reached into their asses and pulled out rules governing trans people. They have consulted physicians who specialize in sports medicine, endocrinologists, geneticists, and a crowd of scientists. This process dates back decades. They have made an extreme effort to be fair and at the same time inclusive. They are to be praised for their efforts, and for their dedication to women's sports. Only fools would question their judgement. What is really going on is much worse than these fools shouting about things they don't understand, and it is far more insidious. There has been a concerted effort by the Republican Party to dehumanize trans people. In state legislatures all across the country we have been their targets. We have been portrayed as pedophiles and bathroom rapists. 'Protecting women and children' is never about holding other men accountable. It's singling us out for legalized persecution. Now the GOP is targeting loving parents of trans kids. Texas and Idaho are among the worst. Loving parents caring for their children is being re-framed as child abuse. This has moved from bathrooms and sports to denying life saving medical care to children and threats of imprisonment for their parents. Fuck Republicans.

[@caddan4175]

Honestly, the biggest thing that has kept transgendered people out of sports is the sports being separated by gender in the first place. As Steve showed in this video, there are women who have outperformed men and set records. This is not a gender thing. There should be tiers based on ability, but gender should not be a consideration when judging that ability.

[@Derain02]

Loved the video, but I also love these comments. It's nice to be reminded that a lot of open minded and supportive people exist, and want the best for people.

[@sarahscott5305]

Kinda reminds me of that horrifically transphobic episode of Futurama, where Bender excels at women's sports simply because (for all intents and purposes) he's a man.

[@markjensen7091]

For one the episode was made at a time where people were not as accepting of trans issues. Two it highlights a true threat, which is "how do weed out those who are trying to get an advantage, versus those who really are a trans people." Finally, instead of judging the episode for what it is, try seeing it from a different angle. That angle being that Bender is a closeted (trans) person. Bender gets the change, starts to enjoy being in that changed role, falls in love with someone he cares about, and forced to go back to being a "manbot." Why because he was a "manbot," his friends kept pushing him and reminding him that he was a "manbot," so he was forced to go back to being a "manbot." At the very end of the episode, they show him looking at Calculon and he is visably depressed because he loved Calculon. In previous episodes, they show Bender as practically being a stalker of Calculon and when he became Coilette he actually got to be happy which was to show his love and affection for Calculon.

[@kamalalsb7292]

Futurama has a LOT of Transphobic shit in it, which is depressing.

[@SteveShives]

The amount of casual transphobia in stuff from when I was a kid/young adult is really striking, and most of it went right by me because I lacked the awareness I have now. I remember that Futurama episode. I've also found a lot of transphobia in old episodes of Whose Line Is It Anyway, an old favorite I like to watch from time to time. It's not even a regular thing, just every so often BAM! Random, gratuitous transphobic joke.

[@daryno9047]

Yeah that episode did not age well

[@sarahscott5305]

@@markjensen7091 How do we weed out those trying to get an advantage? You think people will reassign their gender for an advantage? You're desperately reaching here. I love Futurama as much as anyone, but that doesn't stop me from noticing when it screwed up. Yes it was a different time, but it's still OK to notice when Friends was homophobic, or when Scrubs was transphobic, or when Star Trek was sexist, etc. These issues came from a place of ignorance, not malice, but they still happened and we shouldn't excuse them.

[@TakaComics]

Yup. Nobody wants to bring up that she was behind the record set by a cis woman, or that she lost her other two events. She's consistent, motivated, and doing the best she can do, which is more important for winning than just being strong or having the "right body" for the sport. Basketball literally changed rules because people were too good. The game now would be completely foreign to the NBA of the 1950s.

[@emmamacfarlane8137]

Thank you for this.

[@Xenaboy-vt3hi]

I loved that setup where it seemed like Steve was describing Lia Thomas but was actually giving the accomplishments of Katie LeDecky. 9 seconds faster than Thomas. In swimming, wins are measured in tenths and even hundredths of seconds. I've read that this means, had they competed the same year, LeDecky would have lapped Thomas twice in the 500 meter. As I believe Steve said, as her treatments have continued, and as standards are more solidly implemented, Thomas's swim times have only gotten worse. Also, Jessie Gender spoke of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon which is when you tend to notice things that happen very seldom more than things that happen all the time. So, you notice whenever a trans woman wins a sports event and conflate it to happening all the time. It's worse too when you've got Fox News and company only showing Women's sports results when that happens in order to further their anti-trans hate political agenda.

[@gwit4051]

I loved that twist, caught me off guard as well.

[@lucretialain8534]

As a trans woman myself the sports "debate" is just another locker room panic meant to fuck over minorities, concern trolling about women's sports(usually with a fuck ton of misogyny sprinkled in) So it was refreshing not to have to worry about this happening here, thank you so so much Steve, you're awesome!

[@RavenJay]

Thank you Steve. The gist of this message I was going to say in my own video. My thoughts exactly

[@brittoncooper1251]

You hit it out of the park with this one, Steve. Well done!

[@euansmith3699]

Steve "Slugger" Shrives.

[@ZagnutBar]

Sports are full of objective, measurable statistics. With regard to whether cis men/women are at an advantage/disadvantage when competing against trans men/women, what does the data say? Seems a relatively straightforward thing to determine.

[@NicolasCaja]

I just recently began to watch this Channel for the comicbook vids, probably a bunch of internez weirdos are gonna get mad about this video, but they are wrong, you are cool mate.

[@Neris-of-the-other]

Thank you for this video ^ . ^

[@MrPigfarmer23]

you are awesome, keep it up

[@jan-rs6im]

you are so articulate and clearly intelligent - but i love watching your videos because you have such a big heart - you really care about people and it is so refreshing!!!

[@doomlattice3336]

My entire life, right-wing reactionary men and their sons have only ever talked about women's sports pejoratively and for the purposes of mocking them. And now suddenly they take it seriously? Now they want what's fair for women? Why? For me, the only mystery about this entire issue is, who do these guys think they're fooling?

[@zorakj]

Thank you!

[@SabrinaConstance]

Thank you for covering this *important* topic. As a *trans* woman myself, this is important. For women to determine how and what issues are to be handled and important to them, this is important. Of course, because much of the *West* still is guided by this destructive, gross *misogynistic* culture, *most of the critics of transwomen* and *women* in sports are coming from uninformed (and bigoted) cis-males doing their best to mansplain to us women. Much love from Canada.

[@beffiesv650]

THIS! So much this!!!

[@DrMechano]

Thanks for speaking up about this stuff, man. I love your comics videos, but it's good to see you talking about real-life issues and giving your perspective on those too.

[@benuticone3079]

Most people who decry trans athletes competing in women's & girls' sports, don't really care about women's and girls' sports. If they did their, collective voices would have forced pro-sports leagues to do something about the male/female pay disparity by now. It's the existence of trans people they don't like. The sports thing just gives them a superficially less irrational hook to hang their bigotry on.

[@NerdRageAgainsttheMachine]

I went to a small school, ( like less than 30 in my graduating class) and for many sports, we played co-Ed, did my cis male but nerdy ass by cis girls who were more gifted and focused on the sport. This is one reason I don’t see born a man as an insurmountable barrier. Great research sir and a very well done video.

[@shinyagumon7015]

We had a co-ed soccer team in my town and we even won the championship so I also don't see the problem.

[@FlyingKaida]

I've been watching your reviews for star trek recently. Finally got Paramount and finally able to watch Picard and Discovery and it's been a great ride. And during I loved watching through your video's. They're often suggested and I enjoy your opinions on it. Then today I wake up and I find this, "The real thread to women's sports". I was scared immediately. And I have to say, you've made me happy cry all morning. You've more than earned my sub and likes. Thank you so much for this! Representation and cis allies speaking out in our favor does SO much! It helps so very much! Thank you for this. I'm already sharing it with everyone.

[@gwenhoward4540]

THANK YOU!!! it's so refreshing to see at least someone talk about this with the understanding that all sports is based on genetic advantage

[@Feralhyena]

Thanks, I've been trying to remember Jackie Mitchell's name since this whole debacle started.

[@timothywalsh866]

Well said

[@evangelicae_rationis]

I love how Americans always ignore that Football exist even when it's the biggest and most practiced Sport in the world. This is probably because Americans dominate in most of sports like Baseball, Basketball, Swimming or Boxing, but they suck at the most important one.

[@carson0myers]

I loved the women's hockey events this year too! I didn't realize how much more the Canadian and US teams dominate in women's than in men's, I'm really looking forward to seeing the other national teams improve in the sport :D

[@CarbideSix]

When I was in college at Chicago State, I had the pleasure of being the lead Play-by-play commentator for both Mens and Women’s basketball teams and their Women’s volleyball team. I honestly preferred doing the Women’s sports more than the mens sports. I had the privilege of spending much time with the female athletes from multiple walks of life, backgrounds, even “lifestyles” as the church-folk would say. I wholeheartedly agree with you on all points. And if I may add as it was made clear two seasons ago, Women’s college sports are working twice as hard to get barely HALF of what Mens teams have, which, last I checked, is not even close to fulfilling Title IX obligations. Yet these conservative fear-mongers want to demonize trans athletes and call them a threat to Women’s sports? Let’s be real here. These conservatives don’t want to see trans athletes at the finish line. They only want to see them as a fetish (for the exclusive pleasure of conservatives, of course).

[@DiamandaHagan]

Legend.

[@ablarousse5273]

I'm coming to this blog in the wake of the manufactured "controversy" surrounding the participation of Imane Khelif in the recent Olympics. As a transgender person, I found it chilling and sad to see the same treatment doled out to Khelif (a cisgender woman) as we transpeople (whether athletes or not) are so regularly subjected to. Before even any real facts about the case were ascertained, several well-known haters labeled her "a man", and the International Hate Brigade took it from there, doing everything they could to tear her and her life to shreds. Transphobia is but one expression of human hatred. There is so much hatred in this world, and the haters will go after any victim that's served up to them, regardless of who she might be or what the justification might be for going after her. Poor Imane got sucked into the vortex usually reserved for us, but she rose above it and actually won gold. I think every transperson in the world was celebrating her victory.

[@senoreljoynes6442]

I've thought for a while now ever since I first heard about the people who are butt hurt about trans women in sports that sports shouldn't be segregated by gender in the first place. Instead I think sports should all be mixed gender and segregated solely on ability. Despite there being differences between men's and women's athletic abilities on average, if sports participation was truly based on ability in the sport, and if the qualification standards were set well, I would expect to see a lot more women competing at very high levels against (and defeating) men than most people would assume based on the statistical averages. In essence I think the question "should trans women be allowed in women's sports?" is the wrong question to ask.

[@caddan4175]

I want to upvote you for making a similar point to mine, that we should rank by performance and not by gender. But why do you have to use a homophobic term like "butt hurt" while talking about it?

[@ShadowHolder748]

While I certainly believe that a trans person who identifies as a woman IS a woman and should be treated as such in basically every situation I don't think it does us any good to pretend that biological gender doesn't exist at all. In the case of Lia Thomas since she is undergoing HRT I see no problem with her competing with other women. But what if a trans woman decides not to undergo any kind of hormone therapy, should they be allowed to compete in woman's sports as well? If so, then why not abolish the separation between men's and women's sports altogether if we are allowing people who on average have a biological advantage to compete with people who on average have a biological disadvantage. I apologize if this comment is ignorant, I don't have a great understand of sports or trans people but I just thought I'd share what I hope is a balanced opinion. Thanks for the videos Steve.

[@rainkidwell2467]

HRT is a pre-requisite for try-outs. If you haven't been on HRT for two years, you do not even qualify, period.

[@Mauricio_Magus]

Great video

[@thatsecuritylady]

My only issue with this video is that you didn't wear a Deep Space Niners hat.

[@loferx]

Absolutely amazing video

[@cabbageismyfavouritevegeta9542]

This was awesome 👍

[@klisterklister2367]

That first bit made me think you had turned into baseball space dad benjamin sisko

[@detectivewiggles]

I am glad to hear a cis atheist acknowledge that there's so much transphobia in the atheist community. Cishets always act like various forms of queerphobia are specific to evangelicals. It's not true at all.

[@detectivewiggles]

...And can we all just acknowledge that ballet and other forms of dance are very much sports?

[@manakmishra]

Loved the video

[@TheCurleyJoe]

This was fantastic. 100% agree

[@NikolaHoward]

I do so love you Mr Shives. :-)

[@letoanor]

I feel like it's been a while i didn't tell you I love you :3

[@danjones13]

That last sentence is the best advice. I know next to nothing about sports. I can't tell you if student athletes getting paid will impact sport or how trans athlete will. So while i support trans right, i sit down and shut up. That is what so many of us should do if we dont have the ability to fully research a topic.

[@ablarousse5273]

I like this. I've long said that one mark of intelligence is knowing your limits. It's hugely important to recognize that you don't know anything on a particular topic when you don't. I've learned to keep my mouth shut when I'm out of my depth. It's saved me many a time from making a fool of myself.

[@TheInfamousBertman]

I'll just share this quote from Serena Williams as food for thought: Serena: “Actually it’s funny, because Andy Murray, he’s been joking about myself and him playing a match. I’m like, ‘Andy, seriously, are you kidding me?’ For me, mens’ tennis and womens’ tennis are completely, almost, two separate sports. If I were to play Andy Murray, I would lose 6-0, 6-0 in five to six minutes, maybe 10 minutes. No, it’s true. It’s a completely different sport. The men are a lot faster and they serve harder, they hit harder, it’s just a different game. I love to play women’s tennis. I only want to play girls, because i don’t want to be embarrassed. I would not do the tour, I would not do Billie Jean [King] any disservice. So Andy, stop it. I’m not going to let you kill me."