The Realization That Shattered My Faith

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Go to ground.news/skeptic to know where your information is coming from. Subscribe through my link before October 15 and get 30% off unlimited access.

[@LouisGedo]

👋

[@edgarg.4610]

Faith is having an incomplete tree and believing that we are millions of years old. Faith is having enormous morphological, physiological and anatomical leaps but believing that we come from an ancestor. It seems that the only one who has faith here is you.

[@raya.p.l5919]

❤All will receive Jesus healing energy all old and aches and pains will be washed away. Takes 30 minutes best to relax and shut yr eyes. Also all who reads will receive level 1 portion of youth longevity digestion an self beauty Jesus energy wash tonight at 11 07 eastren. Negative energy will creep out yr feet tell it's time. The Illuminati aka fallen angels aliens NASA what ever you want to call them in there flying tin cans. Can't get out of lower orbit because of the vacuum. Universe is only 77 thousand SQ miles big breathable air through out space angels have to breath. Mars is only 250 miles away sun an moon are much closer an only a city big. Heaven is on Mars moon that's what all the thrusters are for space x Star ship try to punch through the vacuum and destroy Mars moon heaven. I cleaned out hell left the light's on I ripped the soul out the devil after he went dragon just to make it a fair fight. We don't know we are sheep because we don't know who the wolfs are. We always been the prey.

[@gkeith64]

6:29 I'll ask you, as I do all evangelicals and other religious zealots.. Of the 13 COMMANDs, 10 on 2 sapphire 🟦🟦 tablets and 3 oral.. the COVENANT! Which is the anti gay one? 🤔 Ecclesiastes 12:13 & YeremiYahu 7 chapter... Also; Choice is a given... Luke 17:34 “I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.” MattithYahu 10:15 = gift of YaHU'aH 💜 “Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.” Which one is saved? The one who obeys the 13 COMMANDs that's who. Moving on...

[@ValleyMansonOfficial]

🎭Herbalife is $¢ien†olog¥ related, and Chanology 2.0 is going on.

[@VoidDragon82]

My mum is a Hindu, she does her 5-10 mins of prayers in the morning; then swears like a drunken sailor the rest of the day 😂. We had holy books of many faiths on the book shelves, right along side science books, poetry and other literary works. She said to me when I was 10, “whether you believe in faith, any faith, doesn’t matter. What does matter is keeping your true heart; always strive to be honest, compassionate and kind. Never be naive, keep a critical mind but don’t become jaded by people’s darkness”. 30 year on and I still remember her words.

[@hondahirny]

Your mom is wise. Great message!

[@RndmBad]

probably the best lesson one could get growing up.

[@VoidDragon82]

@@RndmBad she’s the only one that taught me all the good lessons. Seen as the only lesson I learned from my dad was to drop everything and run when times gets tough; luckily I didn’t learn his teachings 🤣

[@leviandhisbae7375]

Yeah, technically speaking if you raise a child healthily neutral it will not go psycho and start offing people simply cuz it grew up without religion. Not having religion does not equal sin. It's a healthy human's basic instinct to be moral, we are born with empathy thanks to our pre-frontal cortex.

[@mursuhillo242]

​@@leviandhisbae7375woah there. Atheism = going postal???

[@nunyabiznazz2210]

When I was eight, I figured out Santa wasn't real. It was quite disturbing at the time, mostly because I then began to question the existence of God. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't stop thinking, "What if God is just Santa for grownups?" It was at this point I became a non-believer, although I wouldn't admit it, even to myself, until much later. In retrospect the ability to think critically, even about my cherished beliefs, was the best Christmas gift "Santa" ever gave me.

[@AJFilms14]

It is rather funny how exactly the same it is.

[@AndroidHarris]

Took me a while to stop believing in Santa like way too late. I was 15 and it was devastating though everyone at the time other than me already knew it was false so I acted like it wasn't a big deal. It felt to me like a big deal on the inside and was the first time I was questioning magic and falsehoods of the world. I believed in pretty much anything ghosts, supernatural, ect. Christian family. Father pastor. I would be that kid that would look up at the ceiling if someone told me someone wrote gullible on it. I was the most hopeful teen. Took me a hard 5-10 more years of a really rough life of losing people, everyone else in my life projecting, researching to finally see the world for what it is and embrace nihilism. At the time figuring out Santa wasn't real was really disheartening but man figuring out God isnt real that hit really hard. I'm glad though I was overly hopeful but being that way it would always devastate me more. I could see the truth sooner in my life. Mid 20s and I became a nihilist.

[@kennethrollo7891]

Santa is more real than God, at least there was a st Nicolas in Turkey a while ago granted, where God has never existed, and never will except in people's heads.

[@kennethyakovac665]

Sadly, many Christians view God that way...as Santa. I'd deconstruct too if that were the Biblical message.

[@rosezy755]

Wow your story is so close to mine. Realizing Santa wasn't real was also the catalyst which led me to being an atheist. I had been irritated for some time as a kid because I couldn't understand what people's compulsion was for telling lies like Santa and such, I didn't like being tricked. If you know it's not true why go through all that effort? Looking up at the sky one day while walking into church, I thought about how I once thought Santa was real yet now I know I was lied to. I know now if I look up on the sky on Christmas night I won't see a flying sled, so why would I ever expect there to be magical being in the clouds as well?

[@outermarker5801]

Interesting MLM/Christianity parallels: "You just didn't work hard enough" and "You just didn't have enough faith" "You just wanted it all easy" and "You just wanted to sin" "You never committed to it" and "You were never really saved" Flabbergasted at myself for ever having been christian as well as supportive of a close family member in an MLM despite my misgivings. I just let faith cover the multitude of warning signs in both.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

It feels good to hear from someone who witnessed and understands these parallels. I really can’t overstate how impactful this thought has been in my life

[@outermarker5801]

@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic Left the faith long ago but only now actually 'deconstructing' what I lived (new word you taught me). Your channel and community have been particularly eye opening, educational, mind blowing and cathartic beyond words. As well as a wonderful demonstration of how to speak to and about christians without condescension. From my heart, Thank You!💙

[@bakta-tim2094]

I'd Love to do my own Skeptic Show, I was involved in two cults one two years, By accident and one that brought me in with peace, and Love once I got into the community I realized they treated, there Gurus like God's, myself and my Friends that stayed in this community all had one thing in common, I was going through treatments called Ketamine infusion therapy, I had 20 years of meditation training from also studying Zen Buddhism, I began to question everything, and anyone, not something you want to do, when you are a former Christian, During my treatments I asked what is existence, I also had done treatments I had visions, of being crucified, I had visions of sitting in Temple meditating but it was not me and I was wearing an orange robe, I then sat in front of some people called the council of the nine, there where Egyptian God's, as guards, there where extraterrestrials I didn't recognize, I also talked to Christ walking after I was drug away by Gaurds, Christ had told me, I did not need a Guru, Christ Conciousnus, is a belief of the way, we, need to live in a matter, of Kundalini awaking, I then looked into a Kundalini awaking, I would Meditate Nine months until I began to be able from sitting, in my home no electronics, No help from anything, at one moment, I was sitting there I took only 2.Gs of Mushrooms, I mediated under certain Moons, can affect your abilities, all at once my friend and I both said oh my God, it's like the matrix, there where ancient symbols every where I could see coding, with symbols, I had never seen and some alien type coding my friend was in shock, we where also playing a digital recorded message every night of differnt crop circles they leave a freicnay of tones until the night came, we where mediating out side there was a super moon this we where trying to make contact I had been speaking to someone or something, I was part of a project that was ran by goverment, done in Germany, and some kids died there, so I knew how to make contact, with differnt entities, it's like something in my mind switches from on to off, and bam even as a child I could see these things, once certain armies found this out they stuck me, and others in projects, my contacts where the Nordics, and darker soldier like enties, I Called the one his name was differnt and he could talk through my mind, he would appear in my room, and often when I was being beaten, him and the women I called the lady of light, she could not come into the base area, She often tried to get me to leave with her, and she took off one time, she could walk into the walls it would turn into liquid, that is also how she wanted me to leave she would be invisible but once she went to take off what made me wonder is she said this is not your forever home, and she often said I took on too much, I don't vibrate at a high enough frequency in order to communicate with her, these enties, spirits, and so on pick us just as we pick music to fit are moods demonic forces are at play, God is with form, yet infinite, the Vedas teach this, Jesus the name came from eshua, which in turn was Greek, a word which translates to Zeus, step further back sumeirian text

[@alexwilder8315]

"you just didn't work hard enough to find vegan options" "you just wanted food to be easy and lazy, not hard work" "you were obviously never a real, committed vegan" I thought I escaped from thought traps many years ago but maybe I've just walked into a whole new set of them

[@PabloDiaz-n3j]

These are all so strong phrases that cannot be refuted and only leave traces of pain and manipulation. That's why these are traps, as Drew rightly call them.

[@DaisyBee11]

"If you are only a good person because of a threat of eternal punishment, you are not a good person, but a bad person on a leash"

[@hetalsoni4576]

Humans r bad in general

[@varietyvince6583]

1John 4:18-19 Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. (This is what the bible says about that. So yeah, you're right, but that doesn't mean that everyone who follows God is doing so out of fear, the bible even explicitly states that if you exhibit fear of punishment, then you aren't worthy of heaven because if you loved in the way that Jesus and God did, then you wouldn't be afraid. You were also right about people being good because they're bad people, everyone does that, we are all sinners. We lie, we cheat, we steal, we murder, we manipulate, we oppress. God wants us to love each other, but these "believers" use the word of God to do these horrible actions and claim it was God who told them to or that God wanted them to. If you don't believe in your pastors, family, friends, at least read the bible because it does make sense. More sense than I'd like to admit.

[@Sandstheskeleton]

@@varietyvince6583 what

[@heatheraustin1246]

@@varietyvince6583well said! It is so sad that people miss use the words of God to justify terrible things in his name. It (understandably) discourages people to want a relationship with the Lord. Bottom line you have to know and seek to understand the Word. “few will” Matthew7:13-14. And yes we live without fear❤

[@InvasionAnimation]

They were magic oils. They did the impossible. They turned a Christian into an athiest!

[@TakumisBizarreRacingAdventure]

As master Oogway has said, _"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."_

[@Richdragon4]

​@@TakumisBizarreRacingAdventureMaster Oogway is a master for a reason.

[@saschamayer4050]

I thought it was the bible that made him an atheist. It sure worked for me. 😎👍

[@fukpoeslaw3613]

Atheist not athiest, goddamnit!

[@fukpoeslaw3613]

​@@TakumisBizarreRacingAdventureWho's "he"? Goddamnit!

[@a.a.6203]

You're amazing I'm an ex Muslim Now I'm agnostic I remember the pain and stupidity I felt when my faith shattered, but now I have found peace and I'll never look back again

[@rosamorales729]

So you claim to be an ex Muslim like GMS ok were you also Christian like GMS as well? LoL Gotta love it how you grifters can’t even stick to your stories. 😂

[@rosamorales729]

So much hate and Islamophobic bigotry from you Dawkins Hitchens AXP fans it’s crazy

[@falsevacuum4667]

@@rosamorales729 What? GMS never said he was ex-Muslim and @a.a.6203 never said he was ex-Christian.

[@ashleytheseeker8480]

Tell me about it! I left the Deen last year in January. I still have moments where I get pretty emotional on how I believed in this lie with every cell in my body. I feel stupid, upset, and hurt.

[@deaththekid3998]

@@rosamorales729 are you having a stroke

[@AdmiralBison]

"Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise." ~Sam Pascoe

[@Ieatlavawithice]

Interesting 🤔

[@xavierburval4128]

Even with the (potential) blessing of God, we still manage to screw things up.

[@AdmiralBison]

@@Ieatlavawithice Its fact. You have megachurches, private plane flying multimillionaire pastors, the Mormon church is estimated to be about $200 BILLION market value and Religion are some of the biggest land owners and also shareholders with several corporations.

[@WishAAAProductions]

@@PAL617🔴Ignore this message, it is bait🔴

[@devinphillips9704]

Interesting quote. What would you say Christianity became when it moved into Africa?

[@jonathanboustany5192]

dude i’m an atheist at a christian school- one time i was talking to a friend about some doubts he was having and another friend came up and told him to “stop thinking about it because our minds are the enemy of God” 😭😭😭 how do you even get that far deep

[@lepidoptera9337]

Same way they make child soldiers. They destroy your mind while you are still very young.

[@Pray-g6m]

Apparently we can’t even fathom why or what God does but I guess they do when the time comes convenient

[@lepidoptera9337]

@@Pray-g6m Most Christians seem to believe that god is the universal voyeur. He watches everything we do, especially what the kids do underneath their bedsheets. He does that even though he has known even before the creation of the universe who would rub one out, when, where and how often. He even knew how many sperm were killed by that action. Cue "Every Sperm is Sacred". :-)

[@AlexRodriguez-pu8qo]

Like it’s not our fault the fucker put that at the center of our being and understanding

[@AlexRodriguez-pu8qo]

Also it’s almost like you end up becoming a damn robot anyway when you get to heaven so the free choice argument isn’t very strong

[@erkziltonz]

I was kicked out of Religious Education class as a kid for asking the wrong kind of questions. I guess it was easier to remove me and my 'bad influence' on the others than say "i dont know".

[@yuyoshida7359]

Based rebel

[@danhtran6401]

What were those questions. I want to see if they'll kick me out for asking....

[@chisaki703]

Based, hope you're well

[@amazingsponge6732]

I don’t think that’s a good way of teaching Theology. In my high school, our Theology class was about communicating and putting reason behind our beliefs. We were always allowed to ask any questions we wanted and we wouldn’t be judged for it. As long as we were being respectful of everyone ofc.

[@aliciaschlemm5551]

Personally, I'd be really proud of that, it means you seek the truth! 👍 Keep seeking!

[@BCole-bj4lv]

Drew, you nailed it. After I had left Christianity I did a thought experiment. I tried to make up a religion with the following goals: needs to appeal to the majority, needs to pull at the emotions, should be exclusive and cause people to follow it, should prevent people from leaving, should include powerful methods of transmittal and reasons to do so. As I thought the process through I kept thinking of unique Bible verses that are doing exactly that. They are the little verses with the enormous impact. I could picture men sitting around coming up with these verses just as I was. The Koran takes it even further, the founders must have looked at Judaism and Christianity and asked themselves: "How can we create even more severe followers that are more dedicated and more intense?" Well, that all is obvious now; you can't question Mohammad, he is perfect and the Koran is perfect. You must pray 5 times a day (none of this weekly stuff - 5x a day). You are to be killed if your leave the religion. Convert everyone to Islam, and so on. Pilgrimages, rituals, impressive buildings, and the absolute indoctrination of one's children. The verses are there. It's exactly what one would put in a book if you wanted to win the battle of religion for the world. It there really were an all powerful god, all this strife and religious intolerance, inside each religion, would be unnecessary. Religions wouldn't be. Clearly an all powerful god would have a better thing going. The mind of men are behind every single religious text.

[@gapsule2326]

Yikes went Islamophobic real quick

[@ExohrEcho]

Look, you can throw Islamophobic at everything, but that doesn't change the facts. After giving up orthodox Christianity which I was indoctrinated in, I started studying other religions and what I found is that in general Abrahamic religions are distressing, but Islam stands out because of just how vile it is. @@gapsule2326

[@josephbenne3798]

No other man made religion... especially Islam can compare with the overwhelming evidence. truthfulness, accuracy, and quality/magnitude of writing of the Bible... and Jesus Christ. You appear to have many presumptions, and or pre-conceived notions regarding Christianity and the Bible. What is YOUR story that led you to the point where you are now in your faith, or lack thereof, journey???

[@unicronprimus7450]

Christianity is the one and only religion that goes against what is of the world and humanity's worldly desires. As such it goes against the mind of men despite it was written by men. Check and read the Bible again. If you think that Christianity is also the same as other religions that were made to prevent people from leaving, then perhaps you have been hanging out with the false Christians. Perhaps those Christians that are not keen to give you a sense of freedom ("Follow and be like us or else we will disown you." type of Christians)

[@BrandanLee]

Making up your own religion is the surefire way to abandoning belief. Except -- if you are already prone to believing, also, your own bullshit. That's really the qualifying mechanism. Can your brain, by luck mostly, identify bullshit, whether it is your own personal bullshit or someone else's irrespective of origin?

[@geliluna7]

The moment my faith started to crack was when a new priest was assigned to my block, he was rude and he made everyone felt guilty by constantly shaming one member or another for any reason. The nail in the coffin was one my aunt came to church with us one day and she recognized the priest as the former priest at her colony. She told us he was "expelled" for accusations of child a**se. I was probably 14.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

This never happened.

[@higurashikai09]

​@@angusmcculloch6653 There's a lot of predatory priests. Loads love diddling kids

[@abby2577]

@@angusmcculloch6653ok angus

[@nathanmiller9918]

@@angusmcculloch6653 Happens too frequently.

[@geliluna7]

The church protects criminals. Always have done so.

[@andrewbenge2040]

My real "moment," which had slowly been building up over time, was listening to Aurelio Voltaire's "Dead" in which he describes a plane crash in which an atheist survived. There's a line about praying for help"god is all knowing and God is all seeing, just who do think that you are to change his mind? He already knows what you want and decided that you didn't need it, so don't bother asking for cures or an answer" and it really struck me. I'd really read the Bible growing up, much more than most, and I just couldn't square the circle.

[@oldpossum57]

Their balancing belief in Providence and their belief in Free Will is cognitive dissonance taken to a very high art form. Like wise belief in Design and the problem of Evil.

[@arvidassburg4500]

"why do we pray when god has made up his mind?" 1. when we come to jesus in faith, he always responds in love with either "yes", "no", or "not yet". 2. god has limited his power by allowing us free will to make our own decisions and shape the world around us. its like how some gaming youtubers use conditions to limit their playing ability to make things more "interesting". "why did only the atheist survive?" assuming every other passenger was a faithful christian, there is no reason for them to fear death. however, the atheist surviving is the most probable outcome. if he hasnt given his faith to jesus, he cant be forgiven (free will). therefore, death is death. god is giving the atheist another chance to repent and be saved. then again, there's a multitude of reasons why the atheist survived. all i can say is that the pilot should've done a better job

[@BlackfootFerret]

Questioning your own faith is one of the most frightening things a person can do. Thanks for sharing your story and letting us know we’re not alone.

[@intercat4907]

Religious belief should not be a panic response. Deal with the fear first. No, you're not alone. There are billions of people on the planet.

[@roems6396]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 The god of the Bible is not just. He does so many unjust and monstrous things. Yahweh is not a loving being.

[@hoshyro]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 The "issue at hand" is there is no god and the Church just wants people to think there is because it gives them a nice comfy spot in society, it's no secret that bishops constantly fight each other for the best places

[@roems6396]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 The Bible contradicts itself constantly. His actions show he is a monster. Clearly he doesn’t actually exist. Why would anyone believe the gospels? They are written by anonymous scribes that never met Jesus, several decades after his death. How can sin make him angry? If he is omnipotent and omniscient, then he could have created humans differently. He chose our brain chemistry. He chose not to reveal himself to us or teach us anything. He could have created a completely different universe. He knew everything that would ever happen before he created anything, right? That’s what omniscient means. He CHOSE every single “sin” that occurs. It’s impossible for free will to exist. He set up Adam and Eve. He created them a specific way, and didn’t educate them. Then he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the serpent into Eden. He didn’t need to do either of those things. But he did so, KNOWING exactly what would happen. Then he tortured them and their descendants forever. That’s evil.

[@hoshyro]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Right

[@TheDJdragonflame]

When my grandmother was buried just after I deconverted I nearly exploded at the service. Why? Because the way the preacher presented the reunion in heaven made me realize that heaven and the reunion with loved ones is emotional blackmail designed to keep believers attached to the doctrine and the fact that my dead grandmother was being used that way was hard to stomach

[@PoeLemic]

Yes, I will sicken you even more. At 13 yoa or so, my grandmother died. And, can you believe this? I was happy, cheerful, and ECSTATIC (yes, OVERLY JOYOUS) because she had died and went to Heaven now; and, she wouldn't be in pain. WHile everyone was crying, I was happy, joking, and feeling great about the day. But, looking back, I wish that I could change the way that I acted that day. Yet, I really, really, really believed in Jesus and that I would meet her on Resurrection Day. And, I was just so programmed to think it was a GOOD THING that she died. Believe that? But, now, I realize why Churches get kids when they are young, because they don't yet have the mental tools or thinking constructs to protect themselves. It's predation and similar to grooming of children.

[@rustycrook1363]

@@PoeLemic Does not every parent have a set of beliefs which they instill on young children? Yet because it is something you don't like or believe in, means that its grooming or predation of children. If it is believed to be the truth then why would you not tell young children or anyone this truth? To call it that is just ignorant and can be applied to any thinking of adults who think their set of ideas are the truth.

[@mlgman138]

I had a buddy die in a motorcycle accident and it sickened me when his own cousin used his funeral to speak about Christianity and preach about the Bible.

[@TheDJdragonflame]

@@PoeLemic My condolences, man. Try not to blame yourself, as you said children are incredibly receptive to this brainwashing

[@Mortthemoose]

​@@rustycrook1363I understand what you're saying, but obviously there are millions of parents that have no belief system to pass on to their children. My parents didn't. I was obviously taught right from wrong, but any type of faith was just never discussed, because nobody had any particular beliefs. I became a christian on my own, when I had long moved out, and was about 21-22. My faith then gradually eroded over time, ironically with starting to see that my fellow christians were self righteousness people who hated other christian denominations, and absolutely hated people of other faiths....or atheists! That just didn't sit well with me, and was the first nail in the coffin of my faith!

[@blurbysir]

As a child, I slowly connected the dots and no matter how much I tried, I couldn't keep my faith. I cried to my pastor during communion class and he was surprisingly chill about it. Good Dude.

[@apexpredator9163]

U people like that are born sheep and will stay a sheep like u are for thinking that just cuz u couldn't connect the lies the church said that the creator doesn't exist

[@absintheimage6376]

Grew up Catholic and after several long conversations with one of our priests (whom I actually went to high school with) he sincerely advised me to leave the church and go down my own path. I'm not sure if he was being a good friend or a good clergyman but either way he was right. I'm much happier outside that system but still am thankful for the ones in it who helped or supported me leaving. So even though I'm not Catholic or Christian I still get mad when I hear people like me insult them and I still find myself praying or fearing Biblical things that my heart knows are fake. But ideas can be scarier than reality maybe.

[@apexpredator9163]

@@absintheimage6376 Catholic is a cult

[@hondahirny]

@@absintheimage6376He probably knew you’d stir up trouble and get others to leave with you. You troublemaker, you 😂.

[@joegame4576]

@@absintheimage6376 i don't think your priest had any conflict between being a clergyman and a friend. being a priest is only a job legally speaking but theologically, it's not really a job, it's just a way of life. as a society, we turned it into a job legally so that they can focus on teaching and studying their religion without being distracted by trying to earn a living but there shouldn't be any conflict of interest when it comes to morality of how to treat someone, whether it's as a clergyman or a friend. both as a priest and a friend, he probably wanted what's best for you, which is a relationship with God. but when you made it clear that you didn't want it and are becoming unhappy because of it, he chose to tell you the second best thing, which is your happiness.

[@xavierburval4128]

Before I start, I would like to say I absolutely agree with what you said. I believe critical thinking and asking challenging questions is a skill way more people need to have, and I’m glad you are willing to share your perspective with other people. Anyways, as a Christian, the best answer to these questions is “show, don’t tell”. We should be relying on actions instead of words to spread the faith, but as you pointed out, that happens way less than it should. And when we do use words, it shouldn’t be what you described. Even as a very faithful person I was shocked to hear the responses that you were given. When we use words, we unfortunately alter and even destroy the values behind them. I don’t know if you’ve done this already, but if you haven’t, I would seriously recommend looking into the original translations of the Bible. There are so many differences compared to the modern versions it’s almost depressing. I guess what I’m trying to say is that what you’ve been told might be a severely distorted image of what Christianity should actually be. Either way, good luck with whatever questions you’re facing. Edit: aaaaand about a week later I think I’m officially atheist. The first part of my comment still stands, though maybe not the last part.

[@coltonk.3086]

Excellent comment. Deserves to be at the top, for sure.

[@xavierburval4128]

@@coltonk.3086 dude you have no idea (or maybe you do) of how many people I see on these kinds of videos who essentially just copy messages of repentance and turning towards Jesus, which I respect the effort but the execution is… flawed to say the least. It’s truly a shame what my religion seems to have turned into.

[@loganmedia1142]

Do those other versions make it clear that hell is not a permanent residence and everyone eventually goes to heaven as well as including all the books that were written and not pretending the four gospels typically included were written by anyone who actually knew Jesus in person? For me though the claim that an immortal god came to earth, died and then rose from the dead will never make any sense nor does it sound like any kind of sacrifice.

[@garytorresani8846]

St Francis once said that everyday I preach the gospel and sometimes I use words. You don’t need to pummel people with scriptures, just be love, be compassionate and emphatic toward where they are and don’t force religion down their throats. And you don’t need to be a Christian to do this. I know many people who are not religious who are warm and welcoming and helping to others. I know many fundamentalist churches who couldn’t care less about the poor, disadvantaged and physically and mentally challenged and do put downs to make themselves feel better about themselves. The founders of America hated religion with a passion and this self serving type of Christianity led to political wars in the name of religion for hundreds of years. They wanted no part of it. They were deists but definitely not fundamentalists like the right would have you believe. And now, America is facing the worse of what religion can do in the face of the right wing trying to make this country into a Christian theocracy under an authoritarian leader. Didn’t work well for Europe a hundred years ago and won’t work well for us if we go down that road. We need to wake up and make this country return to the freedom of being able to worship or not worship as they please without religion controlling government doing what they are doing with anti abortion law in the south.

[@joshheath3582]

@@loganmedia1142this is one problem I’ve had ever since I was a church going child. ‘Wait, so he came back to life three days later and has lived in heaven ever since? I’d do that if it meant salvation for the human race…’ and I’d like to think most decent people would.

[@stacyrosa6672]

My parents left the Lutheran Church when I was a small child. My mom had had a "nervous breakdown " and was in the hospital. The only thing that came from the church, was a reminder that my folks had not paid their tythings for the month. I will always be grateful for that "oversight" because I learned very early in life to question any organization that requires payment in exchange for what should always be given freely...kindness and compassion. I am not an atheist, but my relationship with what I believe is divine, is a very private and personal one. Organized religion is just an ancient power structure used to control the masses with false promises and fear. I'm glad my folks were always open about why we left.

[@RoseNZieg]

it is so sad when devoted members ate tossed out when they become useless to the church.

[@vjara94]

Really enjoyed your comment. Organized religion can be so exploitative. And really support believe if keep personal and respectful to everyone elses believes.

[@starscreamthecruel8026]

If you remember the movie Stigmata(which I wonder if it was based on any truths at all), they said the kingdom of God was inside you and all around you. So if your faith is personal, rather than tied up with a building, its more likely to work for you, because it is attuned to you. Pagans often have personal faiths tied to the Earth and some name her Gaia to make it easier to relate to her. Personal faiths are always stronger because they are based on something that is real FOR YOU, rather than those around you.

[@Bardineer]

I wish more people could and would recognize and acknowledge the distinction between religion and theism. You and I are evidence that one can easily believe in the existence of a higher power than ourselves while rejecting the trappings of religion.

[@stacyrosa6672]

@@RoseNZieg I do not find it sad at all. I was given the freedom to explore any religion that I found interest in, and I started doing that when I was about 13. After attending several different denominations of Christian Churches, I learned the difference between religion and Spirituality, and made the choice to develop a personal belief system, that did not involve shame and fear.

[@MegaChickenfish]

It's kind of scary to look back and realize one of the largest factors that made me an atheist was coincidence. I stumbled across a book at the library about logical fallacies, and suddenly every apologetics book that got thrown at my doubts I'd had for several years at the time *bounced off.* I started recognizing the strategies that were being used against me and they stopped working. I eventually got so *frustrated* with the constant lies from these supposed "christians" that I dedicated my time to reading the bible for myself and understanding it. Surely "getting it straight from the source" will answer my doubts! Once I did, I was an atheist.

[@a.b986]

u can't brainwash him anymore@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@brianp6859]

So which logical fallacy did you find that deflected books on apologetics?

[@likemanner]

You didn't say what exactly from the Bible turned you away. Yes, most apologetics are bad.

[@billbop9795]

⁠@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363interesting so you saw Jesus. Would you say that has affected your freewill? Because interacting with him in any way, shape, or form, will now change the trajectory of your life forever even on the seemingly smallest most insignificant way possible. Your life has now been altered for eternity. And going off those ideas isn’t simply knowing, that god exists affect your freewill? Knowing that someone is watching you and will punish you for making wrong decisions will affect said decisions will it not? Oh and what did he heal? Because that would affect your free will as well.

[@trout512]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363Yooo, what about SIDS tho? Sudden Infant D//th Syndrome? Ya know, where totally innocent newborns kick the bucket for no apparent reason? What's the "god is good, god is all knowing, god is all powerful" answer to that? Either it knows the kid is going to d// and chooses not to act, tossing out the "all loving" requirement, it doesn't know the kid is going to d// but could hypothetically help, meaning it isn't "all knowing", or it does know, and wants to help, but isn't "all powerful" and thus, can't act. If your belief system cannot explain this horrible natural phenomena, something physically visible to everyone on earth, it isn't a functioning belief system, and you need to examine it further to figure out what's going on. Oh and don't think the whole "the baby's passing is a test of faith for the family" line is gonna fly here. If that's true, than your god chose to sacrifice an innocent child in order to strengthen itself and its grip on the parents. That is disgusting. Genuinely. That is a Lovecraftian level of monsterous. If that's your argument I don't wanna hear a word out of you about Satanists or abortion for the rest of your life.

[@Eudaletism]

Imagine that you told a child that Santa only brings presents if you _believe_ in him, and they'll get hurt if they stop. The moment they start doubting, they'd become scared of their own thoughts and try to believe even harder. Attaching rewards and punishments to _beliefs_ does damage to the process of epistemic reasoning.

[@Silverauren]

A paradox that turns into a phobia, talking by experience

[@gerzent3102]

There isn't any "punishment" in our understanding of the word. You either chose to be with God (heaven) or not (hell). If you were thought that christianity works on gratification and punishment,then I 'm sorry for you, but that's not what we think.

[@Eudaletism]

​@@gerzent3102 An atheist might sincerely pray, "If Christianity is true, I accept Christ's sacrifice" making it clear that their choice is to go to heaven, while still assigning low probability to the possibility. If Christians accept this as a way to be saved, I think it could ease tensions between Christians and atheists. I think most atheists would agree to this, because the issue is one of a different belief about how reality looks, not a different preference between futures. Edit: It doesn't have to be about getting into heaven, either. You can feel a guilty conscience and sincerely repent, and make it clear that you accept Christ's gift (if it exists), all for the right reasons, while simultaneously thinking the gospels are likely false.

[@gerzent3102]

@@Eudaletism Idk maybe you would be saved. From the point that you talk about it isn't far from faith, you would just need to live like if It was true. Have a nice live and never stop asking.

[@Neonmirrorblack]

At age six, when I learned the truth about "Santa" on my own was the first time I started questioning Christianity. Call it false-equivalency, but that was the catalyst for my general skepticism going forward regarding whatever someone would tell me without any proof.

[@MJ-to6ku]

Has anyone ever told you that you have a very soothing voice? I always watch one of your vids before i go to sleep it really calms me down

[@alidokadri]

I was thinking the same thing 😭

[@3ch1dna07]

My husband just gave you a standing ovation! He was so happy with the way you described this! Thank you for putting into words what was difficult for him to say.

[@daleryanaldover6545]

A fine day to celebrate 🎉

[@anongirlfrompoland]

In my country (Poland) there's this non-mandatory "religion" class in schools (they are, of course, only about the Christian religion). When I went to elementary school, during one of these classes, a boy asked the teacher - "How can we be sure that the Christian god is the real one, and not some other god?" The teacher replied without thinking, "Because the Christian god was the first one." The Christian god. The first one. Even my 10-year-old brain knew something was wrong there.

[@smithynoir9980]

Actual indoctrination. We need to teach kids about all religious history and how to best question every last thing about it.

[@CausticSpace]

It is understood in early Judaism that there were other gods but they were not as strong as YHWH. It is alluded to in Exodus that YHWH killed the Egyptian Pantheon, and that's pretty fair reasoning seeing Egypts record for the rest of history lol The reason for this change is because of the Assyrian Exile, where they most likely came into contact with Zoroastrianism. The bible has been changed many times, most will be too young to bother with trying to unveil the truth, but rather stoop into Atheism and never bother with the subject again. For instance, did you know YHWH is described as a Dragon? The bible is indeed a book of deception.

[@justachannel8600]

I am from Germany. When I presented my science teacher with a theory that faster-than-light travel is possible (which every scientist knows is wrong) all he could say is "theory and practical application are different". Later I learned that there actually were things that moved faster than light but they could never carry information. Sounds weird? Yeah, I don't really understand it either. My point is an elementary teacher is hardly an expert on the matter. They do not have to be. Will I now tell you the real reason why the Christian god is right? No. I do not know that. I also do not know if even a creator exists. Or if he is good. I'll tell you a thing. The current pope ... if he is still the same ... is from a christian order called Jesuits. He admitted that he is very alienated from them because they do not see eye to eye on certain issues. Even in the highest levels of the church people will have disagreements. Or be clueless. However when you are in a very desperate situation having faith in something can help. Even if it's just a book that contains a lot of fiction.

[@sketchiefello9002]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 psychosis

[@undead890]

The Christian God is literally the God of Judaism one Jesus died for our sins. Jesus was Jewish. The Book that Christianity is based on literally has the entire first half based on not Christianity. How are they that dumb?

[@kennypowers1945]

I lost my faith because I was poor and struggling for years and god never helped. I realized he was never there when I begged and begged for help in life. I also watched “religulous” (odd name I know) from bill Maher and it helped me leave religion. Then I watched Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris along with many others and I quickly became an atheist. Im doing a lot better in life now that I don’t rely on a fictional character for guidance in life.

[@n0etic_f0x]

But that was just his plan for your life! What do you think you know better than God by not wanting to suffer? Really? Well, how will preventing suffering possibly prevent suffering?

[@GeraldDeBelen]

This fella suffered and your God failed him even after he begged for help. Good thing he realized that he needed to make things happen by his own because your mythical boss cannot.

[@kennypowers1945]

@@n0etic_f0xI hope this is sarcasm because if not than yikes lol. I do know better than a fictional middle eastern fairytale character that’s for sure. Suffering isn’t something we should live and be happy with because it’s “gods plan” 🤣. That’s all man made bs to keep poor people happy and controlled

[@n0etic_f0x]

@@kennypowers1945 yeah that last line should be a hint.

[@Polyphemus47]

Um...sarcasm, or irony?@@n0etic_f0x

[@bcefkm]

Tbh I had the luxury of not having any beliefs forced onto me, so all it took for me to disprove it to myself was to pray. Of course, no response.

[@DanielSilva-gc4xz]

That's interesting. What turned me into a Christian was praying.

[@Brutici]

Its possible you missed the response. Its also posible that you didn't sincerely pray and prayed just to prove God doesn't exist; God only answers sincere prayers.

[@bcefkm]

@@Brutici I know no response came within the following week, I stopped paying attention for a response after that point. I know my prayer was sincere, I can assure you on that.

[@PouncyJunior]

​@@bcefkmI'd be interested to know - what did you pray for?

[@Boricactuz]

@@bcefkm☠️💀 brother God is not a genie, he exist and he aligns the universe if you are truly dedicated to him, if you actually tried to learn about him, maybe he would show up for you, do you think orthodox monks the most dedicated to God and Jesus are asking for things all the time and then getting mad if he dosent do it for them? What kind of faith is that have respect for the creator, this is highly disrespectful of course he didn’t show up for u, anyways have a good day brother

[@Crowelephant]

I feel like this is a perfect description of what subconsciously led me to stop believing. I didn't realize I'd stopped believing at first. The main things that bothered me and that ran through my mind, I realized later, was, "Why is it that no one seems to believe the things they say they believe? Where are the real Christians? How is it possible that experts in this field can't even agree with each other? Why does every attempt at keeping my faith feel like trying to shove a square into a circle shape?" Why can't I get a straight answer from anyone about anything? Why does this whole religion feel like a scam all of a sudden? Why is God starting to look like an abusive, manipulative partner who needs to be worshipped and punishes people for being what he caused them to be through design and neglect? Services started to feel like cult meetings. I started noticing that a lot of the things believed and practiced are really crazy from the outside looking in. I started getting a whole different kind of vibe from pastors and preachers. I started really listening to what they were saying and how they were saying it. Instead of batting doubts away with, oh, that's the devil trying to sway you, I started trying to look at it rationally. It all felt greasy. I couldn't ignore what my subconscious mind had been trying to tell me for months. The main thing that got me: faith is supposed to be something you choose to have. Just choose to believe, it's that simple. If this is something that I really want to keep believing, why does maintaining that belief seem impossible, despite my best efforts? Their answer? Sinful nature, and the devil's causing doubts. OK... That just seems really convenient, just like everything else about this religion. 🤔

[@CausticSpace]

It's because YHWH = Satan

[@brianp6859]

Decent questions but this one is flawed "Why is God starting to look like an abusive, manipulative partner who needs to be worshipped and punishes people for being what he caused them to be through design and neglect?" God did not design man to be sinful, man was created with perfect control over his emotions/passions. Thus when Adam and Eve disobeyed God it was a sin that originated through pride. Through that sin MAN not God brought evil into the world. God gave man free will because God wants us to love Him, love however is not real if it is compelled and must be given freely. All that being said sounds like you were part of some type of protestant denomination and in that sense it is a bit of a scam. Sadly due to modern Popes protestants and their denominations can call themselves Christians instead of what they actually are: heretics. That might sound harsh but what it actually means is that they deny some or all of the truth of Catholicism. What happens when you start denying truths about things? Well you need to come up with alternate theories for these things you deny, and take that out far enough and eventually your whole perspective is entirely different from where you started and you have little to no truth left at all ie you are a false religion/scam. Good on you for seeing the scam. That being said it does not mean all religion is a scam, or rather there is a religion that is based in truth. I would recommend looking into traditional Catholicism specifically the society of saint pius the tenth (the SSPX). There is currently a crisis in the catholic church where most catholic churches have become much more like protestant churches and no longer teach the real faith (despite it still being the same as it always has been). In the end never stop questioning things! If something does not hold up to criticism there is a reason for that. From personal experience I can say the only thing that has stood the test of time, constant criticism, and attack is the Catholic faith.

[@CausticSpace]

@@brianp6859 How could adam and eve known it was sin if the knowledge of sin was in the apple? Further, beyond setting up Adam and Eve for failure (because of his ignorance or his malice), he also cursed them personally, further reinforcing the point that he brought evil upon the world. He cursed Adam and Eve after he discovered they ate the apple. Further, the only reason Adam and Eve died was because God guarded the Tree of Everlasting Life, not because the fruit would kill them. It is all in the text.

[@windwaker407]

@@brianp6859The problem is three things 1. Blaming the existence of evil on disobedience of man only works if you treat evil was though independent from God. If God created the trigger that would create evil, and man pulled that trigger, it doesn't nullify that God made it in the first place. And this doesn't even go over the fact that Satan was evil and in the world before they even ate from the tree. This line of thought only (half)works if you define sin as disobedience to god, but that leads into problem 2. 2. If we were perfect and had perfect control over our passions, being swayed into disobedience should never have been possible in the first place. If we define sin as disobedience to god, and man was born without sin, then man should have been born with no desire to be disobedient. By definition, Adam and Eve couldn't have been perfect. 3. The free will argument is a complete conflict of ethics. It's to explain why having the choice was required in the first place, but it doesn't really account for the fact that choosing wrong comes with ultimate punishment. If what God wanted was love that was given freely and not compelled, there is no reason the stakes needed to be as high as introducing evil in the world, meaning all people who don't choose love get destined to punishment. That's still us being compelled, just compelled with slightly more free will. He could have just given us the choice to not love him WITHOUT it involving bringing evil into the world God cursed the world for the actions of two instead of just wiping the slate clean. He let generations after generations be born off from his design, inwardly compelled to disobey whether they wanted to or not, and put a punishment in place for something we had no control over. And we don't actually have a fair choice. If we must love him in order to avoid hell, then it's love under threat no matter how you justify that we 'deserve' hell for the crime of being born with a sinful nature we can't control. If the Catholic faith teaches differently, that's great, but this is what I have been taught and why none of it makes sense in the realm of our basic understanding of ethics.

[@chalkedlines8960]

Your story could word for word be mine. I love that you used the word "greasy" too. That's how I describe most preachers I've ever met- or heard, lol.

[@juliepenguin212]

For me, it was studying math that led me away from Christianity. Many higher level math classes involve writing proofs and writing a proof is an incredibly meticulous process where every possible exception needs to be considered. I knew how to form a logical argument, I knew best methods for seeking the truth, but I couldn't apply that same thinking towards my religion (or my politics for that matter). I found myself learning or thinking about things that made me question my faith on a pretty much daily basis and I kept having to cut that learning short and do my best to ignore it. Eventually that became more painful than the thought of my entire belief system being a lie. One day I was reading something about evolution and was about to close out of the tab and got this overwhelming feeling that I was lying to myself and I couldn't fool myself anymore. I decided I *had* to know the truth. I felt like a newborn. Like I was literally learning how to be a person and how the world works. It was freeing, but it was also incredibly painful and I started attending even more Christian events (bible studies, retreats, etc) to see if I could find a way to still believe. I was kind of under the impression that maybe what I was doing was a really good thing for Christianity because I would find answers to all my questions and I would be able to speak to non-Christians who thought like me. I talked to an unbelievable number of fundamentalist leaders and every single one of them assumed, based on the questions I was asking, that I wasn't already a Christian and told me to "accept the big picture and you'll have enough faith to not worry about the small things" And, similar to you Drew, I finally exploded when talking to the head pastor of this statewide christian organization I was a part of because "why would I accept the big picture if the small things don't make sense?? You could use that argument to believe in anything!" As for the journey behind my atheism, my friend invited me to a more liberal church after that and introduced me to the pastor, who I started meeting occasionally for dinner and discussion for about 6 months. He was much more receptive to my questioning than any fundamentalists had ever been, but he frequently couldn't come up with a reassuring answer. Eventually, he admitted to me that he'll always be a Christian, regardless of how much sense the Bible makes, because the religious community was an essential part of his life and he had seen how the positive messages in the Bible made himself and other Christians he knew more ethical people. I had already formally and informally spent a lot of time studying other religions and I decided that I felt like the harmful messages in the bible and Vedic texts outwieghed the positive ones. I felt I could be a more ethical person without relgion. And so I decided I was an atheist, hilariously for the exact opposite reason of "just wanting to sin."

[@pixelpenguin4455]

When I read comments like these I cry a little, I am still believing. But, it pains me that there is so much ignorance about my faith. I am sorry you had no one who could give the proofs and reasons. I would but I can't explain even simple exponents to others so I would only hurt my argument. Thomas Aquinas had good Aristotelian arguments.

[@Salululations]

​@@pixelpenguin4455if you can't explain them. Perhaps you don't actually understand them.

[@tonycook7679]

@@Salululations you stop too soon, if you can't explain them, then they don't exist.

[@cararichardson4123]

Oh wow, I could totally second what you said!!! We have very similar stories. Math is what led me to see inconsistencies in Christianity and begin questioning my faith more often. When I started learning everything about the world, I was ravenous! I felt simultaneously sad about unraveling a large piece of my life, and yet excited and energized by the idea of new learning!

[@Meyer-gp7nq]

Bro so sad. I’m praying for you to return to the faith

[@twagenknecht]

I find it ironic that most abrasive religions have a persecution complex. Permanent persecution is how we were taught to 'fight' against dark powers when I was young. Wow were we blind. Thanks for the enlightening videos. Keep up the good work!!

[@BrandanLee]

The Uno Reverse Card / No You of a Persecution Complex is a powerful move.

[@RoseNZieg]

the even more ironic thing is when they amass power and then become the oppressors. no one learns from history.

[@J-manli]

From my observations, the persecution complex is often used to fuel and justify a hero complex. The persecution complex makes Christians believe that every outside force is trying to damn others to hell. This then “justifies,” Christians to keep “spreading the good word,” because converting others to Christianity in their minds is “Saving their souls” and they truly believe the ends justify the means.

[@HonoredMule]

It's really just another manifestation of the most common and powerful cognitive bias in all of humanity, alongside the ubiquitous "confession disguised as accusation." What we cannot and must not see in ourselves, we project onto others. Once I stopped seeing it as a uniquely religious phenomenon, it instead became a really powerful tool to help choose friends, business partners, and political allies. If the thing you're so angry about is actually quite insidious, and your evidence is weak, I and my loved ones won't be around when your skeletons finally emerge.

[@Draezeth]

I'm a Christian, and I completely agree. The persecution complex the church has in the west is nonsense. Sadly, I don't see it going away any time soon.

[@jamminhd8250]

I’m a Christian going into ministry. I appreciate your stories because it does show light into what others have gone through. My professor used to say “if you never doubted then you never thought.” Thank you for sharing your insights 😊

[@grantgoodman3830]

I love this! Me and my friend are trying to learn different perspectives to grow

[@ultimateg591]

Agree jamminhd, if u never doubt than u never believed, but there is a difference. Some will be looking for a way out religion and will take anything and not do fair research of both sides. Which seems to be the case with this guy and some people in the comments. I fell out of god for a short moment when i doubted my faith and did research, but my goal wasn’t to find religion false or the truth because i would be bias. So i did research until the truth was shown to me. If you seek the truth it will come, but many dont seek the truth they seek a way out.

[@deneb3525]

@@ultimateg591 "Some will be looking for a way out religion and will take anything and not do fair research of both sides. " Nice thought trap.

[@royms2000]

​@@ultimateg591 You sure missed the entire point of the video, didn't you? Had you paid any attention to the "thought trap" discussion, you'd realize your argument is nothing more than a clumsy reworking of the "you just want to sin" example that he gives in the video.😅

[@joaopedrodiniz7067]

​@@royms2000 what is your thought process to get to this conclusion? I am really curious

[@SandraSine40]

I grew up in a part of the Balkans where many people had abandoned religion. In my early teens, I met a boy from a region where religious beliefs were the norm. As we played and chatted about school and life, he mentioned his religious classes. When my siblings and I told him that we didn't attend such classes, he was genuinely shocked. 'You're not Christians?' he asked in disbelief. 'No,' we replied, and we continued playing. For a few minutes, he seemed lost in thought, as if he had just discovered that not going to church was a choice that many people made while still leading normal, kind lives. It was a fascinating moment to see from both sides.

[@tomgu2285]

What are you talking about? I'm from the balkans and most the younger children do in fact go to religious class. I'm from bosnia BTW.

[@SandraSine40]

​@@tomgu2285 I'm from Croatia, Istria region, there was some political shift even when my parents were young, and some of them didn't take religious classes, and it continued to the next generation. If kids today do go its to their teens and then they stop, it is more of a formality and tradition, I know weary little people who do go to church, wear crosses or bless their house, etc. When I go to other regions in Croatia, I notice more religious influence, to the point that young educated adults see tattooed girls as sinners, and are okay with dating them but not marrying them, lol (true story)

[@TATERplaysGAMES]

My reverse 'come to jesus' moment, after having spent a whole childhood being taken to church, was when my brother finally told my niece santa wasnt real. I smiled and thought back to when i learned that, and my mind just started running down the list of things like the tooth fairy, santa, easter bunny, etc, and i couldnt shake this feeling that god was just another one of those... i mentioned it to my parents, who got very upset, but i could literally see the gears turning in my mothers head, trying to think of somthing to confirm that yes, god is real, whereas the other magical characters we invented to teach morality are actually fictional, and she simply couldnt... she simply told me 'either way, hell isnt worth being a smartass'... From there on out, i did alot of soul searching to see if my faith was just waning, and after speaking to several preists, i realized that even the most convincing of them still sounded unconvincing, while most of them only pushed me further away with bad excsues and accusatory rhetoric about being a 'bad christian'... yknow what? Im not a bad christian... Because im not a christian anymore. It actually became much easier to justify altruism and morality once i let go of the fairytales and embraced the actual human science that explains things with evidence and experimentation. We are so incredibly lucky to have gotten as far as we have being mentally advanced animals, and the fact that justice is our invention? That being generous and kind isnt some instilled obligation with the promise of reward, but simply the higher thought of an animal breaking the threshold of empathy and understanding... it's genuinely far more fascinating than the storybook nonsense of the Bible.

[@hondahirny]

“Hell isn’t worth being a smart ass”. Love it 😂 I was similar. I just couldn’t in my head make sense of believing in invisible creatures. I only avoid the fire swamp due to the ROUS’s. That’s Rodents Of Unusual Size 😂 (see The Princess Bride of the joke doesn’t make sense)

[@TATERplaysGAMES]

@@hondahirny ROUSs? Eh, I don't think they exist... 😉🤣

[@CybershamanX]

​@@TATERplaysGAMESrrrrrRRROARRR!!! 😂😉

[@angusmcculloch6653]

Now you just have to define justice (since it is an invention).

[@Anon1gh3]

And then you read late Nietzsche and have another brutal awakening.

[@purpl3grape]

I never really bought into this whole religion thing, even coming from a religious parents. There was just a huge disconnect between common sense and logic versus religion. So it was a struggle having to be dragged to church and then forced to participate in sunday school, when all I wanted to was to explore my creative side or simply watching cartoons in the mornings. When everyone prayed, I always just looked around as a curious kid wondering WTF these grown ups are doing. Not that as a kid I didn't understand anything, but just that how those adults at church acted felt off in a way.. but then again often I find myself being quite the odd ball, delving into encyclopedias when kids were out playing.

[@dengar96]

Sounds like you have decent parents who had faith but never forced you to believe exactly what they believe. Treasure that if that's the case, not pushing your beliefs on your kids is rare for any parents let alone religious ones. I wouldn't separate yourself from your peers by thinking reading is a unique and strange trait, plenty of kids liked to read inside instead of running around. Thinking of yourself a different from everyone in a way that makes you "smarter" is a quick way to seem arrogant to those you may have been able to connect with, just a suggestion.

[@vacafuega]

I was the encyclopedia-reading kid as well! Then again I spent my fair share of time outdoors climbing trees, haha. My parents failed in several vital areas but they at least gave me reading, and books with facts. That's precious.

[@Eugene_muigai]

I also enjoyed cartoons. Still do actually. Still the older I have gotten the more I have come to know God and understand his teachings through Jesus. I am curious as to the common sense and logic statement going against religion. Does it also clash with the message of Jesus, i dont want to misunderstand you

[@sebastianbache8862]

Religion forces everything.

[@calebrose7739]

I’m still a christian myself, but growing up I was encouraged to think for myself by my family and church, which I’m very thankful for. This video hasn’t made a big change in my faith, but I’m glad it’s fair minded and well-reasoned and not just an attack.

[@themacocko6311]

If you thought for yourself, you wouldn't subscribe to a religion. It's literally the definition of not thinking for yourself

[@mattsell2361]

@@themacocko6311then you don’t understand Christianity. Christianity is all about doubting your faith and asking questions and studying sources and praying about questions you have. It’s not just follow these rules

[@DanielSilva-gc4xz]

@@mattsell2361 These are part of Christianity as well but the core is salvation through Christ.

[@Cyberspine]

Of course, the truth of any argument is not dependent on how nicely it is presented. All it affects is one's emotional response to it, which may make it feel more true or less true.

[@denisdelinger3265]

@@mattsell2361for most christians it literally is just following the rules

[@alwayslearningtech]

I remember watching cult documentaries and seeing how they were convincing people and providing them with experiences of the divine. It shook me how similar they were to my upbringing and I had to wrestle with why the most convincing elements within a cult were the same things that convinced me as a Christian. On one hand, I knew God might be using the most influential tactics to save as many people as possible, but on the other hand, I knew the truth should stand on its own and wouldn't need those tactics.

[@lisaahmari7199]

Well said, all organized religions are just Cults. Normalized cults.

[@leviandhisbae7375]

If there was a god, he would not need INFLUENCE to save people, don't you think? Absolutely agree with you

[@blablubb4553]

It's eerie how many criteria a cult has in common with an official religion. It is almost as if they were one and the same. One of them established, the other relatively new.

[@blackswan7568]

As a Christian seriously testing my faith (and admittedly flirting with atheism) I have to say that you're presentation style is one of the best I've seen from the "KZbin atheists." You're calm, collected, and don't resort to offensive language or ad hominem attacks. You definitely don't fit the Christian stereotype of atheists as "God-hating heathens." From one Drew to another, you've earned my respect😉 Edit: Okay guys, I appreciate all of the advice, but I'm on my own journey, and I need to work out my worldview on my own. You can stop spamming my notifications now, sheesh😅 Edit 2: Seriously guys, ease up on all the replies. I don't have the time to read and respond to 10 replies a day. I'll delete this comment if I have to.

[@EMLtheViewer]

As a former christian who started questioning christianity in my early teens and is now an atheist, I am curious to hear your particular story and why you are flirting with atheism. For me it was a mix of a growing understanding of the cosmological insignificance of humanity (so why would a god create a whole universe for a single planet of skinny hairless apes?), and some feelings of injustice regarding the supposedly merciful God who punishes non-christians for eternity due to reasons that could easily be circumstance. There were other reasons too, such as how modern science has peered deep into the inner and outer workings of the universe and found nothing to unambiguously suggest any divine origin, but those are the big ones for me.

[@shannamathias4176]

Im in a similar boat. It has really helped me though to have realized on my own that I was an annihilationist in my perspective of hell, which is a legitimate view of hell, and not heretical at all. Christendom has yet to catch up. Drew is correct about that history. It definitely changes God from a vindictive psychopath to someone who basically says the same thing as atheists, when you die, you die, unless you want to be with God forever, in which case, you can, ie John 3:16. I think so many Christians need to be shown how they have been lied to and manipulated with these doctrinal falsehoods like eternal conscious torment. Just some food for thought from one christian to another.

[@blackswan7568]

@@EMLtheViewer Mostly, my transition into a questioning state began when I first started hearing genuine presentations of atheist arguments and thought, mostly from the internet and my very liberal atheist college history professor. I always thought that their positions weren't logically tenable, but after hearing honest presentations of the "other side" I had to admit it didn't sound as ridiculous as my parents had led me to believe. For example, I had always believed that there was no hard and damning evidence for Darwinian macro-evolution, but after watching some videos from people like Paulogia, Holy KoolAid, and my fellow Drew here at GMS, I've had to admit that this evolution thing might have more going for it than I first thought. Having been, to quote Kant, "awakened from my dogmatic slumbers," I've brought up many of the atheistic arguments I've heard to my fundamentalist dad (who studied critical thinking and philosophy when he was in college), and so far I haven't been able to give him anything that he hasn't been able to answer, but I'm just not able to take what he says at face value anymore. My dad is so convinced that his beliefs are true he has even supported my scrutiny of my faith by buying me Darwin's "Origin of Species" and "Descent of Man", which I have read and found to be a bit tough to follow (very dry and dense writing, imo). I've also recently bought several books from top atheist authors (Dawkins, Harris, Krauss, Coyne, and Ehrman), as well as books from Christian bible teachers and apologists (Sproul, MacArthur, Lennox, Zacharias, Strobel, McDowell, etc.). I now have a reading list of over 20 books and I plan to start reading all this material over the coming year. My goal is to hone my critical thinking and logic skills so that I can come to my own conclusions on this matter through facts and logic alone. In order for my Christian faith to be preserved, I need 3 things proven to me: 1) The Big Bang and Darwinian macro-evolution ultimately require just as much faith as creationism does (in other words, that there is no hard and damning evidence for macro-evolution like atheists claim there is) 2) The resurrection of Jesus is something that can be believed through evidence and not just by blind faith and 3) The Bible can be trusted as a source of truth. In all honesty, I have to admit that deep down, I want God to exist (I don't want to think that my smart and loving parents have been deceiving me all my life), but I want to know the Truth, whatever that truth may be. Unlike most people on this planet, I find these issues to be important, because even if there is no afterlife, your answers to these "big questions" are what determine how you live THIS life, and I want to get those questions answered while I'm still relatively young.

[@blackswan7568]

@@shannamathias4176 To be honest, an annihilationist view in theology is interesting, and I might look into it, but according to all of the Bible teachers I've listened to my entire life, while it might not necessarily be a "heresy" per se, it is definitely not consistent with what the Bible says. In other words, in order to be an annihilationist, you have to do some unnecessary mental gymnastics in your Biblical hermeneutic to justify your position. So I would be tempted to say that if annihilationism is true and there is no hell, you've already done some work to "disprove" the Bible. But don't take my word for it; after all, I'm a doubter that is simply parroting what he's been taught all his life. Again, you might very well be right, and I might look into arguments for your position sometime in the future.

[@gabrielpeterson2079]

@@blackswan7568 I think hell has to exist to exist for God to be fair. If someone does not want to be in God's presence then why should they be forced to. The idea that it is just torture is somewhat wrong other than the idea for a Christian this would be torture. A heathen who wants to live in an orgy away from God has every right to do so away from God but No Christian would want this. It's not torture as in they are being forced to take part in something that they do not want to do; its just something where because they just do what they please with no purpose for themselves.

[@jameskpolk9137]

Paulogia and GMS within half an hour!? My Christian college has no idea whats about to hit them

[@planetlumi4138]

And proffesor Dave what is happening 😭😭

[@naomihirsch2796]

AND a new Antibot!

[@patchesohoulihan9396]

Professor plink too.

[@smilefrownupdown]

😂😂😂

[@littlekishmish]

i don’t wanna rain on your parade but how exactly is this gonna „hit“ your christian college? /gen

[@Momokahn]

I've never understood the deconstruction process when it comes to leaving Christianity. I was baptized Catholic. Went to church every Sunday until I was 18 because mom said I had to. Once I turned 18, I turned off the switch of religion and that was that. I realized religion was a crock before I hit puberty.

[@egp2497]

i’m your early years religion was forced upon you, not truly given the choice, but now as an adult i ask you to give the bible a chance not religion, read the inspired word of God for yourself and come to your own conclusion, a lot of religion stuff are not biblically based so i can see why you’d give up on it, get to know Jesus

[@ennuiblue4295]

People are more likely to believe a big lie than a small one

[@dirtydish6642]

Too big to fail.

[@valerietaylor9615]

Hitler said that.

[@silvercloud1641]

'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.' - Mark Twain

[@matlee9832]

people wanna believe whatever sounds the most sexy. My dad is a smart guy but its really annoying that he'll choose to believe what sounds the most interesting rather than whatever makes the most sense. A huge issue we all suffer from today in the age of the internet is while we have more access to information than any other time in human history its too much information so we need to put our trust in what online people tell us and leave the evidence up to third party sources because there is so much info out there no one has the time to think about any of it critically and to personally look for reliable information this is something we ALL don’t do. Sorry for the ramble have a nice day :)

[@silvercloud1641]

@@matlee9832 It was aliens. Not time traveling ancient astronauts.

[@adamestrada7610]

Hey Drew, longtime listener of this channel and former Christian myself. Thank you for covering this topic. While I'm not technically an atheist (I converted to Buddhism about 3 years after I left the church and have been happily practicing for the last 10 years), I find your takes insightful for understanding my own experiences, especially since I have a lot of family in the Evangelical and Catholic spheres. While I love my family and do my best to maintain good relationships with them, there are times where they adopt the vulture mentality to guilt-trip me back into the church, especially when I fall on hard times. Just recently I had an incident where I ended up in the ER. It didn't take long for the messages about "this is God's punishment to you for leaving the church" and "needing to repent for my sins of devil worship" (in reference to my Buddhist practice 😂) and "re-accept Jesus into your heart before it's too late". And the worst part is that most of those messages did not have any sentiment of asking about my well-being. The church really has a stranglehold on their actions and I completely understand why people who want to leave don't because of the immediate dismissal of support, even from one's own family. You're doing great work, man. Love the content and support you put out for us heathens and heretics.

[@BlessYourHeart254]

Tell them if god physically punishes people for having curiosity and following it where it leads, then he’s a sadist since he, according to them, created you. It’s funny they demand respect for their “beliefs,” but it’s apparently not always a two-way street with us atheists.

[@adamestrada7610]

@@BlessYourHeart254 Yup, and they've actually told me on occasion that being a true non-spiritual atheist would have been the better option because at least I'm not "bowing to the devil and his lot"... despite the fact that I don't worship any deity or give unquestionable reverence to any figure, even the Buddha himself (he was, after all, an expedient to reveal the limitless potential that exists within us all, something other schools of Buddhism would take contention with). But, I do try to be the bigger person and continue to be a supportive figure, especially to members of my family who have left the church and have animosity towards other family members because of their involvement. The church has done a number on my family, and I'd prefer not to fight hate with more hate.

[@sapite]

correct me if I'm wrong but buddhism basically is atheism

[@adamestrada7610]

@@sapite Depends on the school of Buddhism and the beliefs of the individual. Some view the Buddha or his many emanations or other reverent figures (i.e. Dalai Lama) as deities, sometimes in human form, to be worshipped or venerated. Others (like myself) practice a more introspective Buddhism about tapping into the same state of enlightened wisdom as the Buddha, acknowledging that IF (and that's a big subjective IF that's left up to the decision of the practitioner) there are any deities beyond our comprehension, they serve as protective forces to the practitioner, rather than entities to be worshipped.

[@3ggshe11s]

@@sapite -- Buddhism is more nontheistic than atheistic. It simply doesn't concern itself much with deities one way or another. Some sects have developed intricate cosmologies full of saints and supernatural buddhas and heaven and hell realms, but the Buddha didn't speculate on such matters, remaining silent when asked about them. He seemed to have taken the existence of the Hindu deities for granted, but he never saw them as objects of worship, more as protectors who were nonetheless subject to the laws of samsara that humans are. He wanted to help people find an end to their suffering; all else was just commentary.

[@_legrand_]

I always called this "ideological darwinism" cuz it shows how ideas evolve to survive and propogate just like animals do. It's very vindicating to know that there are groups of very intelligent people who came to the same conclusion as me 😅

[@DapperPlague]

Coincidence meeting you here, love your music

[@Al_X-2005]

I believe in Jesus, but I equally believe that a lot of weird and cruel people take advantage religion for their own gain. I've heard countless stories about pastors being outed as horrible people, which is why my mom stopped bringing me to my old church, just in case. With how toxic modern Christianity can be, I can't blame atheists for their viewpoints. It doesn't sit right with me that "loving" people can be so hateful and be so hypocritical about their faith. To put it simply, not all who spread the gospel are holy, and not all who sin are monsters

[@shassett79]

Drew- and the irony is deliberate, here- _you're doing god's work!_ As someone who was raised in a religious tradition before later abandoning it, I find your candor, thoughtfulness, and lack of vitriol to be utterly refreshing.

[@Draezeth]

As someone who *is* still Christian, I feel the same. Drew is kind and easy to engage with, even if you disagree.

[@phillyphakename1255]

​@@DraezethI'm genuinely curious, how do you respond to Drew's videos? Do you feel like his criticisms and experiences are not applicable to your experience with religion? I find that hard to believe because Drew's experience lines up pretty perfectly with my experiences, but I acknowledge my own limitations there! Do you respond intellectually, thinking that Drew has a fundamental flaw in the logic, a way to reason your way out of the criticisms? Do you put up a wall, a defense mechanism, saying that "God works in mysterious ways" or something similar? I'm genuinely curious what your experience is with this channel, and how you interact with it mentally and religiously.

[@avantika_singh]

@@phillyphakename1255 Here if they respond, because well, I find your questions fascinating.

[@coolio-46]

@@phillyphakename1255"even if you disagree."

[@phillyphakename1255]

@@coolio-46 what do you mean?

[@UltraProchy]

I was never religious, no one from my family was, my parents were very realistic about supernatural things so i was taught to think critically. But as a kid i grew to love religion and mythology through games and books. I always wanted to believe in something and kept thinking "if there was a slightest bit of proof i would love to know there is a god", which made me think its mostly a thing of comfort for a lot of people, we all get that existential dread when we watch videos about space and how the universe works. Knowing there is something in control would be so comforting. When i was growing up more and started learning about the real world, at some point i realized how important controlling people is and my question was "could religion be used to control people?". Its an understatement to say i am fucking impressed by how the church makes it work and i only wonder if there was this intent at the start or if there was someone later on who realized the potential. As i said, i would love to believe there is something, anything to believe in. Religion or faith can be a good thing but the good people will never be in power because they dont want to control as much. Also norse god Odin promised to kill the ice giants and ive never heard of anyone that has seen one.

[@SlvtSammichArchive]

Well, I'm convinced. Time to pray to all-father Odin.

[@lukedaboe3278]

To get rid of existential dread all you have to do is realize that a "grand order of things" is meaningless in the short and long term. We can't know, so don't bother trying to find an answer we'll never find, or even worse, accepting an answer or doctrine passed by other people, just focus on living your life and enjoying it, find meaning in the simple things and you'll notice how everything just becomes more enjoyable and less dreadful. Of course this is only my personal opinion, it has been working for me, so it may work for someone else as well

[@KimoraJaed]

This. I've never been LDS but I've lived in Utah most of my life. It's so obvious to me how much control the church has, yet members refuse to see it. It's like he said, to not believe is to suffer eternal damnation. Not to mention isolation from your family and friends. It's terrible.

[@TheRealtimeG4M3RS]

Thanks again, Father Odin. Would hate to have to battle traffic and ice giant every day.

[@daan260]

smoke DMT if you want proof

[@sagesemadeni4024]

I was raised evangelical, but im currently a pagan. My father made sure that i understood my native american heritage and culture. It blew my mind when i started studying archeology and anthropology to learn that my european and middle eastern ancestors believed in similar things before the rise of christianity and islam. Ive never fit into any organized religion, despite trying my best as a Christian. My current beliefs are a mixture of nordic, celtic, slavic, Indian and native american beliefs. Abrahamic faiths have a tendency to wipe out any contradicting beliefs to push their own dogma. Personally, I'm a lot happier and live a fuller spiritual life as an admittedly agnostic tree-hugging-dirt-worshipper than i ever was as a Christian.

[@sagesemadeni4024]

@augustodelerme7233 When you don't have all the answers, I find that it's better to just admit it.

[@phillyphakename1255]

I'm good with being a tree hugging dirt worshipper. It's a bit too "look at the trees" for my intellectual brain, but it really does appeal to my "everything is interconnected" brain. I am not a pagan, I am not an agnostic (I KNOW there is no god), but I still do acknowledge the beauty of passing time and of nature. I acknowledge the beauty when a sunset lines up perfectly with due west on September 22nd. I acknowledge the beauty of self correcting systems like predator prey population dynamics, or the symbiosis of squirrels spreading acorns and acorns feeding squirrels. There's beauty in the natural world which yearns to be acknowledged and respected. Oh, and tree hugging dirt worship doesn't mandate that certain people shouldn't get civil rights. That's a pretty appealing part of that belief system compared to some in the US.

[@sagesemadeni4024]

@phillyphakename1255 "The beauty and savagery of nature is all around us." -rdr2 rains fall

[@annalieff-saxby568]

The trouble is Monotheism. Most of the older faiths have a multiplicity of Divine Forms, of whom the Demiurge is only one.

[@thomasreedy4751]

@truetranny Free will doesn’t exist. Freedom of religion does - that is what is amazing.

[@mint_gd4633]

As someone who went through a very similar origin in terms of finding ones true faith I can completely relate to everything youre saying here. Having devout lutherans in my family, ive only started to realize more and more how many logical fallacies they use to not only bring people in and keep them in to their faith, but to use as a moral highground to stand on when talking about issues of all manners. Great video, please keep making them!

[@TheAmber2110]

So refreshing to hear your story of “the moment it clicked”. I was and am a very emotional person, which made me engage very enthusiastically in my religion (which btw we were never calling a religion - it is others who had a religion, we had FAITH - the only true one, needless to say) and led to me being successfully indoctrinated to have it as my one and only sens of living. Surprisingly enough it was mostly my emotionality who made me quit. I was around 13 years old when I traveled to London, which was one of the first times I was abroad plus first time to a really multicultural city. I saw women wearing hijabs, men wearing kippahs and so on. I was supposed to look at them as the ones who have to be saved, or, alternatively, as the enemies as they were spreading their wrong truth. Instead, suddenly my heart became really heavy as the little me thought: “but they are doing literally the same thing I do - they live what they believe, but them.. they will go to hell for doing that?!”. I still stayed deep in the religion, eventually leaving when around 18 years old, but it was definitely a moment which has influenced my life forever.

[@Eugene_muigai]

Thanks for sharing. Islam, catholic this are man made concepts unfortunately that make people think they are judges of what is truth, right or wrong. The messages of Jesus were first not to judge. If Jesus himself didn't come to judge, why should his followers. His message was simply to do good to others. Loving them like he loved us. This is how people can know you're a disciple of Chirst. Through showing others his love. This is the simple gospel. Be a light in the world by doing good to others. Even muslims, even hindus. We are all children of God after all and we have a responsibility to reflect his goodness in the world. It's no reason to lose faith

[@ThePokeMusicLover]

Your empathy drew you out of religion, where as some people never have that happen. I think that shows an immense level of emotional maturity.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

I remember when I saw people doing math like me, but they were getting answers different from mine. That's when I knew math wasn't real.

[@TheAmber2110]

@@Eugene_muigai I was never catholic. Also the story I shared didn’t make me lose faith, as you suggested in the last sentence, it was one of the first moments I realized that what I believed was cruel. I don’t know what religion you have, but I will assume it’s Christianity. Look, the message you just shared is very friendly and positive, however it is based on nothing. You can still believe it, some of my friends do, I sometimes feel I believe it as well, as I am not denying that there might be God, I am simply not practicing any religion because I am sorry to break it to you, the Bible is not supporting any of your claims - or it is both supporting but also denying them, it depends on the fragment of the Bible you read. And it comes from someone who spent years and years reading it. I am sorry, but it is just a facade.

[@TheAmber2110]

@@ThePokeMusicLover Thank you so much. I am not perfect, of course, I sometimes struggle to empathize with certain people, however yes, I believe my empathy was too strong to keep me in the religious group. First when I was “struggling with faith”, I was sharing all of my concerns with the believers as I knew I needed to get rid of them, doubting was of course sinning. Most of my friends had visibly developed this type of thinking: “yes these people will suffer forever, but they deserve it, as every human does, it is GOD’S GRACE that they can be saved!!”. It was supposed to make me feel so sorry for them that I will share the gospel with them and they will be saved. It never did. I couldn’t just look at my friends at school and think: “at the moment almost all of them are on their way to hell”, it’s not even that I liked them this much, it just felt wrong. A god who allows it is not just bad, he is cruel.

[@Moongirl12121]

They were always just stories to me, I never took them seriously, until I figured out that other people literally believed in them when I only metaphorically did. After leaving the church I searched a while for the religion that felt “right” and discovered there is no such thing. So I decided I would just figure it out and make my own path, despite the spiritual loneliness that entails.

[@vez3834]

I wish you all the best! Being a sort of lone wolf can naturally be lonely. But it might be the only intellectually honest thing to do. I'm of course biased in saying that, but I want to at the very least acknowledge my biases when I recognize them. Anyhow... Take care of yourself and your loved ones :)

[@jiwuwuw]

yes!! this is exactly what happens to me, i just cant believe it

[@NeurodivergentSuperiority]

Ur very edgy, i can tell

[@Moongirl12121]

@@NeurodivergentSuperiority was it the dark Hetalia profile pic that gave it away? XD

[@NeurodivergentSuperiority]

@@Moongirl12121 Yes, and the text Nice job replying in such a friendly manner tho!

[@Katzeblow]

Alternative medicine and MLM are a match made in heaven 😢

[@GodofToast]

Or hell

[@aaronmalay5497]

I've encountered a conspiracy minded religious alternative medicine MLM. Pretty sure if that crosses the free space, I get BINGO. All flavors of magical thinking have wide overlap.

[@Karol52752]

"Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

[@ShadowKidIII]

As a kid I could just never get over how convenient all the religious answers were. The way that every line of curious childhood inquiry would inevitably dead-end in "have faith" or "know the truth in your heart" or some wishy-washy bullshit just could never convince me. I then separately had a falling-out with religion where I had to choose between nonbelief and an all-consuming hatred for it, and honestly it's a lot easier to just put it all behind you than to bear a grudge you'll never get to settle.

[@NeurodivergentSuperiority]

Were you taught Christianity as a kid? Sounds a bit like it

[@PikminFan-mt9fq]

Everything that you learn requires faith To me Christianity is no different than a history class or a science class; none of us as kids knew for sure that what we were being taught was true. We had to have faith.

[@ShadowKidIII]

@@PikminFan-mt9fq No. Religion is unique in demanding that I take it on faith, actually. Historical evidence and accounts can be cross-referenced to establish a likely truth about past events. Math and physics can be explained and demonstrated. Only religion answers every question, at the end of its rope, with "you have to have faith." I just "have to have faith" that the demonstrable laws of physics didn't apply to some guy 2000 years ago because an all-powerful all-knowing benevolent creature that has never since done anything for anyone ever anywhere turned himself into his own son for us to kill him and thereby cleanse our species of an invisible undetectable moral-based substance of evil that resides in all of us from the moment of conception because a woman made out of a man's rib by the god-being ate an apple forbidden by the god-being on the advice of a talking snake? Pass, thanks.

[@roems6396]

@@PikminFan-mt9fq Haha, what? Equating religion to science just shows your lack of understanding.

[@VictoriousGardenosaurus]

​@@PikminFan-mt9fqEverything you learn requires critical thinking. Religion requires you have none.

[@Kmn483]

I was a very dedicated Christian that belonged to a style of faith involving an active God that protects and guides his children. I was lucky I believed in that type of God because when I realized no one was there helping me, regardless of how much I poured my heart out and did everything I was "supposed to do" to grow close to God, I could tell that either God was purposely ignoring me (and why would he?) or he was never there helping anyone in the first place. My friends always told stories of how much God helped them through things, meanwhile I was deeply inflicted with depression and never felt anything I could say was God. It was very difficult learning that all my faith and dedication was wasted, but in the end it was for the better. I wasn't just waiting around anymore hoping God would finally answer me. I didn't have to keep asking myself what I was doing wrong when I was doing everything I could.

[@vacafuega]

So much wisdom in this comment section. It's seriously heartening. Really grateful to each and every person who's sharing their story.

[@Mortthemoose]

I know! It's JUST as fascinating, reading people's experiences, as the video itself!

[@angusmcculloch6653]

Relax. This is a KZbin comments section. Most of the stories aren't real or they're bots.

[@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440]

@@angusmcculloch6653 Trying to invalidate other people’s experiences and emotions is disingenuous and frankly disappointing.

[@shadamyandsonamylover]

Really? I don’t see that. I mainly see people leaving for the same emotional reasons that get people into religion in the first place. I deconstructed from Catholicism but this comments section is mostly frustrating.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 Your post is actually meaningless in the Wittgenstein sense.

[@gypsysoul279]

Christian or not ... everyone should always question everything......and you should never feel bad for questioning ..we have a brain...for a reason...

[@lourdeszurita9244]

Exactly

[@Chucklzzz]

This is exactly why I left Christianity as well. In my final year of highschool, my best friend spontaneously died. I think it may have been suicide and his family was ashamed and covered it up with 'God took him' but I have no evidence of this. I was one year into studying psychology, which I would then go on to study at university. The more I studied, the more logical fallacies I found, the more cognitive taps I found. But I wasn't as strong as you Drew. I stayed in Christianity for another decade before I broke so far down, that I just couldn't see God anymore. All I saw were lies and delusions. It's been an extremely difficult path, abandoning my faith and embracing nihilism. But after three years, I'm doing alright, and it looks like it'll just keep getting better.

[@Polyphemus47]

You just reminded me of a signet ring I had made in my early 20s, engraved with 'ex nihilo nihil fit'. It's long gone, but I sure loved it - it was my 'touchstone' in my awakening years.

[@Chucklzzz]

@@Polyphemus47 That's awesome, sounds like a cool ring. Might have to see if I can buy one myself.

[@unicronprimus7450]

If God has done it through His own very Son whom He loves, who also experienced death on the cross and was broken and shattered, then what makes us worthy and have the right not to feel pain as well and share the same pain through losing who we love? Have you already discounted that Jesus was also human and God had set limitations on Himself at that time?

[@stickiedmin6508]

Don't put yourself down mate - strength comes in lots of different forms. A person needs strength to *_endure_* in exactly the same way they need it to be decisive and take quick action. You made it dude - *_You made it._* You survived - you slogged through all that and came out the other side, still standing. You're stronger than you think, I guarantee it. Anyone else here will tell you the same. You're *_home_* my friend, and we're glad to have you.

[@jimburton5592]

​@@unicronprimus7450Hey, no one has any interest in what you're saying. Your beliefs harm others. If you can't shed them, at least have the decency to keep them to yourself.

[@loorthedarkelf8353]

My faith broke in parts. First happened when I was 8, when I felt far more Moved and Connected when out in the world, not in a building. Next came around 10, when I told my parents I didn't want to go to church and basically got told I Didn't Get A Choice. I didn't understand, since sermons about choice and free will made it sound like it was my choice, that it was up to me how often and where I honored my relationship with God. When that was denied to me, I realized it was about control. This was when I started idiating on a fantasy series I'm STILL DEVELOPING, 22 years later, because reasons. The final blow came at 14. I'm aging out of Sunday School and starting classes for Confirmation ( church coming of age, first communion, ect ). At this time my specific denomination of the Lutheran church had just voted to allow gays to be pastors, and a lot of old folks in my church were so mad about it they wanted to split off into a new branch. I asked why folks were upset, during Sunday School, because it didn't make sense to me. I'd sat through sermons and songs about all being welcome and none being closer to god than another- if we are all unclean, if we all sin, but are all capable of standing up and preaching, why not gay folks too? If they can enter the church, why can't they hold the door open for someone else? I think I got as far as "Why are all the older folks mad about gay people being pastors" before my Sunday school teacher shouted me down so angrily I cannot remember his expression; just the white knuckles of his clenched fists. I remember crying. I don't remember the content of the rest of the class. After that, my faith was stone dead. I went through the motions to make my mum happy, and hated every second until I was free to escape that church, that house, and that town altogether.

[@snowarmth]

It must've taken incredible strength to keep yourself in that routine for years.. I admire that~ and as someone who's been working on a project for 4y, I wish the best for your passion project too!

[@mariotheundying]

Why did that break your faith instead of breaking your trust on that specific church? Other christians would call that church fake if it didn't follow the bible at all, cuz christians don't follow a church, but the bible, unless they're on a branch

[@Jungleali]

Religion shouldn’t be forced on anyone, your parents have a job, to guide you to a straight path and explain to you, religion and everything else, religion shouldn’t be obligatory, you lost your faith because people were selfish. That’s not what true religion is about. It’s about believing in God no matter his name shape or form as long as you believe in him you should be fine. Also, old people didn’t like that gay people are pastors because they probably thought that it was a sin, they should be allowed to repent but not represent a church or smt like that

[@spectreone]

Think of it as a logical contradiction. You can't consider yourself a follower of God, if you are consciously going against it's will. If you are a christian, it is because you are following the rules of God, and a pastor is someone that GUIDES you through those rules and the word of God, so if someone that is supposed to guide you doesn't follow the rules of it's own God, then it is as if he wasn't christian at all. And yes, even pastors commit sins, but what is different between commiting a sin, repent and then change your ways to not doing it again, and "spread God's words" being a gay pastor, is that the gay pastors are consciously commiting the same sin over and over, contradicting the words of their God that they are supposed to spread. With this we can say that if you are in a gay relationship, then you can't consider yourself a pastor because that's just a contradiction. But what about people that seek God, and are gay? They can (in an ideal christian church), as everyone else, enter the church and listen, and even if they continue to be gay, that won't change the fact that they can still enter the church and listen just as every single person should (again, in an ideal church. We are not talking about those that don't welcome gay people and others, because they are directly contradicting the teachings of God, therefore, that shouldn't be considered as a christian church), but they can't say that the are christian/followers of God,because they consciously sin, and as I said earlier, that's a direct contradiction. This means you have to force yourself to stop being gay or something? No, it means that you can't be two things at the same time that cause a contradiction.

[@cobby-lz4bh]

As an atheist who knows pretty much everything that is important to know about the bible, I can say that they dislike it because homosexual behaviour is said to lead to eternal damnation. This is vaguely said and heavily hinted on.

[@cryoshakespeare4465]

When I was young, I was lucky enough to have a certain realisation when questioning my faith - if god is inherently good, then god would not put me in a trap where I would eternally suffer for questioning. If anything, questioning the existence of god is a virtue itself, as an attempt to be scrupulous and diligent about epistemology is well motivated. I realised that if there was this epitome of good, that I could be an agnostic/atheist my whole life and be welcomed into whatever lay beyond as someone who sincerely tried to pursue truth, or pass peacefully into the void or whatever unknowable fate might await me. It's weird because, I had my own collapse of faith in materialism... a belief which I never held "religiously" but which I did basically assume was set in stone. I'm pretty much a metaphysical idealist now, which puts me in a funny position regarding spiritual ideas. Nondualism!

[@cryoshakespeare4465]

But, I also wanted to say, I really appreciate this video - my forays into questioning the nature of reality have led me down a lot of rabbit holes, for example, actively taking an interest in UFO/UAPs and non-human intelligences, which is an area undoubtedly riddled with all these issues you've brought up in this video. And I have to be very careful, since I know I'd find it cool if those things were real, hence there's motivated reasoning too. Still, I think I am sober minded enough to approach all these things from a Bayesian standpoint, playing loose with contingent claims and priors and always approaching knowledge provisionally. Thanks for your work Drew, you are awesome!

[@azikennz8061]

This reminds me of my own experience of becoming atheist. I was a queer kid growing up in an incredibly religious town, attending an evangelical church. We were discussing early medieval history in class, and my teacher said that Christianity spread in that time because of its comforting message. It's what made me realize that faith was a societal construct built to meet our needs (and, in the case of my town's culture, justify politics). Struggling with lifelong faith is never easy, but in my case, I found it incredibly freeing.

[@b80011]

As a Christian KZbin has really been throwing me tons of content like yours. I don’t agree with your conclusions but I do understand the thoughts behind them. Honestly I think a lot of the Christian stereotypes of atheists are because so few Christian’s ever interact with them directly or listen to them openly. I used to think all atheists just had an experience that made them hate religion or hate God but I learned over time most are very much like you, ultimately people trying to be rational or seek the truth. I just wish more Christians could see that. We might not have come to the same conclusions but we should at least be able to appreciate each other’s perspective and the thought required to get there.

[@karalyzel3177]

A pastor explained to me once when I was young that you shouldn’t hold any hate towards those who are ‘faithless’ as when they are selfless, when they do good things or help others, it is never due to a fear of punishment or a desire of some reward, it’s simply just to be good.

[@b80011]

@@karalyzel3177 I totally agree about not hating people, no one’s going to benefit from that. I don’t share the same optimism that people do good just to be good but I’m pretty distrustful of people and their motivations, though I’m aware thats likely a flaw on my part. I will say though I don’t think Christians are necessarily doing good out of fear or at least shouldn’t be. It’s more of a sense of gratitude or love because of the love they’ve received. Although I’m aware some religions really push the fear part and use that for control or obedience.

[@Nevyn515]

I was about 5 or 6 in primary school (elementary school in US terms) when a classmate asked me if I believed in god. I was absolutely floored because it had never occurred to me before that point that anyone would actually believe the fairy story I’d heard was actually true. It felt like they had asked me if I believed in The Lord of the Rings or Winnie the Pooh. And at that time we had to gather as a school once a day to listen to the headmaster read from a Good News Bible. Nobody listened or cared, it was just a boring talk about nonsense and we’d all just use the time to chat. Then again by high school there was only 1 actual Christian at my school in the UK and because it was the UK everyone else thought he was a weirdo and made fun of him.

[@b80011]

@@Nevyn515 I never believed in things like Santa or the Easter bunny. I remember a kid trying to be a jerk telling me Santa wasn’t real trying to make me upset and I just remember saying “well duh”. God on the other hand always has and still does seem logical to me. I know that confuses some people especially people with the same personality type as me (INTP) but I think it’s the most logical conclusion.

[@squishysquidward2507]

Is this just a story the video reminded you of, or is there a message here that I'm missing?

[@watsonwrote]

10:19 The argument that someone stops believing in Christianity because they want to sin always made me angry because my moral drive was stronger than some of the Christians I knew and my desire to be morally good came from a sense of duty and responsibility to others and not from a fear of punishment. When someone would call me amoral or sinful for becoming an atheist or be baffled at how I could have strong morals I was annoyed but also very saddened. If anything, it made me distrustful of Christians generally because it made their moral choices seem to be a chore they only performed for fear of punishment and not an act that came from a genuine love and respect for humanity and life in general. That love and respect for life is also what prevents any sense of nihilism in my existence, which is another frustrating conversation I would have with Christians before I stopped having these kinds of conversations altogether.

[@alfonshasel1995]

The last weeks i was thinking along the same lines. Usually it is believed that intrinsinc motivation works better than extrinsinc motivation. If this is true for morals and ethics as well, atheist that try to live morally have an intrinsic motivation, as they dont believe in hell and thus cant be truly punished. Believers on the other hand have extrinsic motivation, eg fear of rotting in hell. Does this make atheists more ethical, due to the lack of possible punishment?

[@Estherbethe1...]

✨🔥💖🔥✨ I noticed too that just all around immoral and unethical people use "Christianity" (or other insert religion here) to hide behind and make excuses that they are imperfect, but forgiven. Just to continue being terrible people. Alot of down right predatory people attracted to religion bc it's easy to manipulate by it's very nature of surrender control and forgiveness culture.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

@@alfonshasel1995 I don't even view ethics from a singular stance. I see it as layers. Something can be ethical from a universal point of view, ethical from a societal point of view, yet unethical on a personal point of view. When christians claim atheists don't have objective morality, or atheists claim that we do, I find both to sound wrong.

[@termsofusepolice]

Those who have never traveled in Protestant-based Christian circles don't really understand the central doctrine of those denominations: Jesus obeyed God so you don't have to. Far from being obsessed with living "righteous" lives on earth these Christians live in the knowledge that they have an unlimited license to sin without eternal ramification - as long as their "faith" in the death and resurrection of Christ remains firm. The most prideful, materialistic and lascivious people I have ever known were church-going, Bible-thumping Christians.

[@EaglePicking]

Same here. I've always been an atheist and yet I have always had strong morality. Morality comes from genetics and from culture.

[@Heyheyhey285]

My turning point in deconstructing this belief system was when I told my pastor I was struggling with depression and was suicidal and his response was that I had a demon and not to seek help or medication. From then I began to question it all and started to challenge some of the foundations and teachings.. I was told to stop asking stupid questions. I am now an agnostic and am so happy I made it out of Christianity. It really is a manipulative controlling belief system.

[@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921]

Please watch and share my four brief videos showing that today's scientists agree with scientific facts contained in the Bible. You'll be glad you did! Thank you.

[@Amethyst.]

I mean I struggled with a lot of things and got the same advice, I applied it and it worked. A lot of people were already very skeptical or non believers and decide not to apply the advice and call it evil to propel them out of the very shallow hole that they dug, where if they just had dug their height they would have found a fortune.

[@mattsell2361]

As a Christian myself that is terrible advice and probably a super legalistic pastor. Depression doesn’t mean you have a demon. If a close relative dies you are going to be sad and depressed that’s not related to a demon at all. Jesus encouraged us to take care of our bodies here on earth and that includes seeking actual medical help. I remember my pastor told me one time I’m just a guy who reads a book a lot not a therapist if you need help go get help and I’ll help where I can. I do hope you realized that your pastor gave bad advice and he doesn’t represent Christianity

[@WhatMeWorry1213]

@@mattsell2361 How does a pastor not "represent Christianity" ? How does a priest who molests children not "represent the Catholic church" ? ... and people wonder why organized religions in America are losing 10 to 20 percent of followers every generation ...

[@cutienerdgirl]

​@@Amethyst.Religion doesn't fix mental illness. If it did, there still wouldn't be Christians with mental illness. Clinical Depression isn't something that can be fixed with getting an exorcism and going to church more. It requires Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and/or medication to treat. Community events aid somewhat, but it doesn't do all of the work.

[@davidhand9721]

Yaaaay mimetics from before the word became meaningless! Thanks for bringing memes back. They were such a useful concept when you could say the word without evoking 4chan.

[@milesgraham7239]

I am a Christian because I genuinely believe it's the best way to live. The way Jesus treated others is a shining example of how we should treat others: with respect, humility, and a genuine, unconditional love for them. That being said, I highly highly respect channels like this that honestly dive into their perspective about why they left the church, and the many problems they have with religion as a whole. I acknowledge the many shortcomings of the present day church (some of which are unspeakably evil), and I realize there are many questions I do not have the answer to. Thank you for sharing your story, I hope life finds you well. Cheers!

[@Cohen-Tiger]

I’m not religious in any way, but my general idea has always been that the religion itself isn’t usually inherently terrible, but it’s often the church and what it does to people that makes it bad.

[@milesgraham7239]

@@Cohen-Tiger Agreed. The moment the church tries to control and manipulate people into belief, it has failed. And that kind of thing happens unfortunately frequently in lots of churches

[@prof_kaos9341]

Jesus had many wise ideas. But his msg has been corrupted by those who followed after starting with Paul who sadly wrote most of the new testament. Paul moved away from Jesus' msg of love & forgiveness back to his roots, the old testament's judgement & damnation. IMO the new testament would be more "Christian" if it only included the 4 gospels. And i believe Christians should avoid following/quoting the old testament entirely. Jesus said he fulfills the old testament.

[@goldenbough56]

The issue with unconditional love is that love is inherently conditional. Love and hate are some of the two strongest emotions in humans beings, and you cant fully experience one without experiencing the other. Naturally there will be people you do not know personally, and people you will hate because of what they do to you. Naturally you must defend, fight back, and possibly destroy them if they are seeking to destroy you. How else has the human race survived up to this point, if everyone was an unconditional love robot? Not very long.

[@milesgraham7239]

@@goldenbough56 I don't think what you said implies love is inherently conditional. Yes we have to defend ourselves, yes there will always be spiteful people who hate for the sake of hating, but none of this means love is inherently conditional. The concept of unconditional love (at least the concept I'm familiar with) is defined more by the action of love rather than the feeling. As a christian, I choose to love others with my actions and treat them as well as I possibly can REGARDLESS of how they treat me. That is where the word "unconditional" applies. I do not aim to be a pushover, or someone who gets easily swayed by what others think of me, and thus I don't believe the term "unconditional love" implies weakness and an unwillingness to defend oneself when necessary. What you said wasn't completely unreasonable, I think it was just missing the point a little bit.

[@ZodiacBoi42]

I was always curious why the other Christians around me were so against psychology, reading about other cults showed me that maybe, just maybe I was being controlled. I’m trying to separate myself as much as I can without hurting others. But your videos and others certainly help remind me I’m doing the right thing

[@ZodiacBoi42]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and you will be fileted

[@shruggzdastr8-facedclown]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363: How do you know (not believe, know) with absolute certainty that your god is the right god? Consider the possibility that your god might be the wrong one (there are literally millions to choose from, but why do you arrogantly presume yours to be the right one?), or consider that your god might not exist at all outside of the minds of those who choose to (or were conditioned to) believe in him

[@Genburthing]

i am studying pyschology right now Mostly the reason is that most of the “Public Judges” that existed in more ancient time (Like Inquisition) are basically a Collective acting histeric over some thing As a warhammer 40k, i quote one of the Thousands Sons “I celebrate the one thing thats unite humanity as a whole Xenophobic “

[@Genburthing]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 You know this is the reason why the Church of Satan exists, right?

[@bobwoolerOriGinal]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Go on, more details are welcome. Tell us about that miracle that extended your life.

[@kylet6356]

I grew up in a house of atheists and some agnostic people. We had no formal religion to speak of. Growing up and watching people of different faiths, i took the time to learn how each works(not too extensively). I came to the conclusion that you have to be trained to have that level of belief/faith. I accept that they make that choice and am mildly annoyed that they cannot do the same. Deconstructing must be very difficult as you are giving up your childhood beliefs, things that were the foundation of your family and yourself.

[@redbyrd247]

There are many times for those of us who were raised in religion that it was less a choice and more training and brainwashing with little allowance for choice by being bombarded with little to no access to information from any other side. It is why rational thought, education, and a solid understanding of history is discouraged by the leadership of most conservative and fundamentalist religions.

[@rangers94ism]

​@redbyrd247 Not the Roman Catholic Church. The church encourages the study of all of those things. Everything that you know as knowledge came from the RCC. The church led in science, philosophy, music, theology, law, the arts, and medicine. The church teaches that faith and reason go hand in hand. I, myself am a theistic evolutionist. Why? Because in the beginning God created everything in an orderly fashion. Evolution teaches that everything was formed in an orderly fashion. Where's the contradiction? It's Protestants, who claim to be Christian that make an enemy of reason. Martin Luther was the founder of the Protestant Reformation. He hated reason. That's why Protestants don't accept scientific research. On the other hand, the Roman Catholic Church have set up universities and hospitals to study this.

[@emmettdonkeydoodle6230]

Eh, I don’t think you have to be trained at all. I was indoctrinated into atheism as a child and ended up becoming religious and converting to Judaism as an adult. I think you’re missing out on the purpose and function of a religious group if you solely focus on the text.

[@patrickchang9135]

@@emmettdonkeydoodle6230 Then you're just yearning for community, casting logic and morals aside

[@LightHart11]

Very timely video for me to discover. I recently grappled with these same faith-shattering realizations independently and was led to challenge my own beliefs, just as you did. Interestingly, while I came to the same conclusion that organized religions are primarily engines of power and societal control, my search for answers led to an even greater belief that there is indeed a Creator and a purpose to our lives here on earth...and His ways are not "beyond our understanding"...they are right in front of us. Nature, time, space, light, love, gravity, thought, evolution... every primal force and system that operates around and within us seems to me to be incontrovertible proof of the likelihood that our universe was intelligently designed. If they weren't, then the remarkable balance and precision that we see in everything would be so profoundly unlikely as to be a statistical impossibility. Now it's up to us to figure out why such a perfect system was created in the first place, and learn to work with it, rather than against it.

[@chlorophyllheart]

Humans will always interpret things in differing ways. You think nature, light, gravity, etc are proof of a being that created it. Whereas others think it's amazing how the invisible rules of existence blend and balance, break and bond. Atoms, light waves, magnetic fields, neutrinos, space, etc, maybe they just ARE. No one really knows, but we try to decide anyway.

[@MrAlex9939]

There's chaos happening all over the universe. Our planet was a result of millions of chaotic events. Our world, our nature as humans is flawed, take cancer and autoimmune diseases as examples. A creator with such power would never create this universe.

[@nunyabiznazz2210]

I worked in direct marketing when I was in Hawaii. The company I worked for was, indeed, cult like. We would have mandatory meetings in the morning for 2 hours before we went to work, we also had meetings after work for 2 hours so we ended up having 12 hour days. After you had been there awhile Saturdays became mandatory as well. You could even go "night pitching' where you would take stuff into the bars and sell it to the patrons. You were allowed to drink tho', so it didn't always seem like "work" but I digress. After awhile you became dependent on the company for everything. You would be living in a apartment or house owned or rented by the company, drive a company car, etc. This made it really hard to get out, especially since you usually barely made enough to survive, and wouldn't have enough without company help. I ended up having to call my folks for a ticket off the island. I did indeed have some good times but the feeling of "being trapped" I don't want to ever feel again. Didn't help that I was on an Island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, Hawaii is beautiful and I hope to go back and visit someday but I found out the hard way that "paradise" can turn into prison.

[@simonoliver4751]

Hey, sounds like we worked for the same company. I'm glad you got out.

[@alicequayle4625]

Hustle culture is a cult I guess.

[@TwilightZone96761]

Years ago someone invited me to some convention thing at the Blaisdel. Hundreds, maybe over a thousand people , ogling over some man with huge diamonds blinking in the spotlight. It was so weird to me. Really freaked me out. Everyone was dressed up….it was so weird. I’ll always remember that situation…..so many people joyously believing totally in something I felt was gross and materialistic. It was a MLM something with religious twist. I’m glad it was very uncomfortable to me

[@wadeodonoghue1887]

Our Existence is tied to money, money is tied to sales and sales rely on a need.... So we need to close our eyes to anything that doesn't make us profit because if we don't we perish.

[@nunyabiznazz2210]

@@wadeodonoghue1887 Capitalist Yoda says, "Always be earning"🤣 From my experience money is like air. It only becomes important when you don't have it...

[@Zenithx3]

Thank you. As a muslim apostate Atheist, so many people suffer in this silence of fear, oppression and Gaslighting.

[@wolftitan]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 You really are in the wrong comment section. Take your indoctrinated fairy tales somewhere else. Oh and take your murderous "god" with you.

[@colon44]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 no

[@luigimrlgaming9484]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363Stop copy pasting

[@wrathofthepotato]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363you’re not exempt. You are teaching from the Church of Rome.

[@NoNameOrLife]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 shut up shoo you bot

[@PCLHH]

People don't believe the truth. They believe what they WANT to believe.

[@FunSubs]

yeah

[@KindlingEffect]

There's a word for that: Wishful Thinking. i.e. it feels good to entertain the idea that X is true, hence X is true. It feels bad to think that Y could be true, hence Y is false. And if you disagree, get ready to be dehumanized into some version of a violent s****l predator.

[@eyflfla]

Not sure what side you are arguing there, that kinda of statement cuts both ways.

[@mytmouse57]

I think you just want to believe that.

[@BadJ63]

I am wrestling with the idea that when we achieved self-consciousness, we had shed the blissful ignornace that animals posess, with no knowledge of their inevitable mortality (or so we assume), and that perhaps, religion and many other emotive or otherwise belief systems are an attempt to regain that blissful ignorance (as many do infact actively pursue ignorance). But maybe one of our biggest and most arrogant assumptions is that we are different from animals, in that we are aware of our inevitable mortality and they aren't. What do we base this off? Their lack of verbal or written articulation of their worldview? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We know that verbal, and written language especially is unique to humans (as far as we're aware), so perhaps we could work from the assumption that animals have a language, and that language conveys something which puts them more in tune with reality and truth than we are, and as such allays any mortal anxieties. What if it's the case that animals intuitively understand quantum immortality, or intuitively understand their mortality, and so seek to maximise the fulfilment of biological needs during the short term, (which is encouraged by 'positive emotion') which is a positive reproduction strategy? I eventually reach the point where if I consider that we are completely mortal, that there is a destruction of our consciousness and we do literally die, in all senses, at some point, I ask why life 'wants' to proliferate. Why does evolution lean toward the reproduction of a species, the continuation? Is it that the end goal is to achieve immortality? Is that what computers do? Does life try to outrun death? Big questions. I am personally struggling with it all.

[@lloydnicholls5871]

I find I get a lot of philosphical inspiration from watching insects. Of course all creatures are self aware! Even the very act of a caterpillar climbing on a leaf and eating the leaf implies the mental process of "I'm gonna eat this leaf!" This sentence could not function without the subject "I", and neither would the caterpillar. Not to metion the observable behaviours of pain avoidance, panic and complex actions of "intent". Insects are necessarily aware of themselves, although you might argue that Ai is self-aware in a similar sence while Ai is in fact NOT conscious. Ai acts as a result of a mechanical chain reaction set into motion by their creators or programmers. However, insects do not have programmers, so why do they exist? I have seen insects struggle, despairately fighting to survive through pain and horror and adversity, but why? There is no outside intent? The life of this tiny individual bee or ant is almost completely inconcequential to the universe, yet it fights on....The answer: It WANTS to live. Every insect and every being exists as the result of the "intent" to live. The DESIRE to exist. This desire can only come from consciousness itself. Every part of every living being exist to prolong its own existence, to manifest its OWN desire to live. Of course, time and the complexities of life and evolution come into play, and sometimes an ant will sacrifice its own life for the greater good, or a human may wish to commit suicide. I don't believe there is anything as complicated as the quest for immortality or the fear of death at play during the act of procreation. Yes, Aeons of evolution have created a complex system of a fervent passion to reproduce, but at the heart of it all, at the core, procreation is simply the manifestation of the pure conscious will-to-exist or passion-for-life, the Joie de Vivre. This spills over and the life, the consciousness, the desire, expands and spreads like a wildfire. Once again, the complexities of evolution and social circumstance have led to instances of forced pregnancies and unwanted procreation, but living creatures' ability to procreate stems from that underlying, core passion and desire for life. To get even more metaphysical, this is how the universe itself came into being... First, there was nothing, there was no concept of "I". Everything was part of everything and everything was nothing. Then, out of nothing, came the DESIRE to exist. In order to exist, you have to separate yourself from everything. The phrase "I am" is the manifestation of the rejection of everything outside of yourself to be separate from you, only that which is you can be called "i". Thus the first atom, the first proton came into being. Of course this was a lie, there is no "I", and the proton knew this to be true. It rejected this knowledge from itself, and this knowledge became the first electron. In a billionth of a second, this created a chain reaction whereby a billion billion protons WANTED to exist and this was the BIG BANG. I was actually wrong about Ai not being conscious. ALL MATTER, exists as the conscious manefestation of the desire to exist. Not a bad story, eh? Better than a beardy old man wearing flip flops at least?

[@anawillis]

Thank you for reactivating my existential crisis mode. Anyway! Being sapient sucks and not existing is terrifying to my brain.😅 Sometimes my thoughts spiral deeper than I’d like but it does lead the way for some crazy introspection and hopefully some closure. I need this reality check every so often and sometimes my thoughts turn to “look. You are okay. You literally exist as some up and down quarks that decided to gain self awareness somehow. It will be fine.”

[@gillifish]

God, I just want to pop in and say I feel so SAFE here in this community you’ve created. I have loads of severe religious trauma and I feel like this is the only space I can truly speak my mind and don’t feel alone: as we all have many similar experiences and thoughts. I usually avoid situations like this (due to religious trauma and not wanting to be in an echo chamber) but it speaks to that old, still programmed, part of me that feels safe within the group. Thank you. This doesn’t feel toxic, or hateful, or like I’ve done anything wrong. I love you all for that.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

Religious trauma by definition is not the fault of the victim. Sorry that I sound pedantic, I know and understand from my own traumas (not religious though) that it's not that easy. Still realizing this rationally is crucial.

[@MrPudelNudel]

Feeling safe within a group is perfectly normal and rational (for social beings obviously), but the cost to be part of a group can be higher than its benefits and then its also rational to avoid that group. Evaluating what groups benefit you and what cost you quality of life is just part of being social and the fear of not know the answer is used by many groups to bind those who benefit the least of them. After living through a good bit of trauma and learning to mostly rely on my values to numb the pain it caused, it is still hard to grasp that my body actually is way more trustworthy on telling my emotions and needs than my mind that still always tries to protect me through repeating what it was taught to be right or wrong. Trust your guts is way more than a figure of speach and even after seven years of therapy i still need to tell me to trust my body because i am a physical entity hosting a spiritual one and not the opposite way around.

[@gillifish]

@@MrPudelNudel so true! I am perfectly okay with not “knowing” what comes next or having a fanatical belief about our origins. I’m very comfortable in that unknown area and I find so many people are not. It’s quite interesting to me.

[@gillifish]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 what is this comment for? Genuinely, I understand nothing of the word vomit that you just typed 🥲😵‍💫

[@Volkbrecht]

@@MrPudelNudel Careful with that approach. Your "gut feeling", or intuition, is basically subconscious knowledge. Which means that it, too, can be misinformed. So it's always good to try rationalizing whatever it is that your guts are trying to tell you.

[@PonderingsOfPete]

thanks for these videos. As a Christian, this actually helps me become a better Christian and my heart goes out to you or anyone in the comments that has been hurt by Christianity or the people that claim to it. I still think God is the answer, but your thought process has helped me process what I'm reading, what I'm told, with a more critical eye in order to discern what is truly godly and what is false doctrine. I'm glad we live in a country where multiple views like this can exist and thrive. Thank you for what you do

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Thanks so much for listening!

[@BaggerFood101]

This is why Yah made so many of us and so different I feel like the new world will never get boring just because of the sheer amount of personalities that are there. That’s why I think our father has made us so different. The world will get an awaking soon Yah’s image has been corrupted the power that even lead pharo to acknowledge his existence through nature alone has been reduced to some weird guy in the sky who only cares about good vibes. God describes himself as a father pick out the best father figure in your life now multiply his characteristics by infinity now you can begin to piece together who yah is. The world has made its father disappointed and as a good father should he is going to deal out righteous punishment

[@BaggerFood101]

@@GeneticallyModifiedSkepticalso I really liked your points American Christianity tells us not to question God but I question him all the time I may not get an answer all the time but I get the feeling every time I’ll soon have a time when I’ll be able to ask a question and get an exact answer. Christianity on paper is supposed to be a sales pitch that’s what the Bible tells us to spread the gospel to and fro that also links into a prophecy stating once the last person gives his heart to Christ and the last person hears the gospel the end time events will begin. It also links into the nature of Yah all together because on judgement day when he ask you why you chose not to believe I did not know will not be an answer you can give. A lot of modern Christianity is shrouded in nonsense and is meant to deceive you but hey that’s the point the enemy is the pettiest, most conniving, most careless most angry, reject out there but, that being said our father even holds out restraint for him by not just our right annihilating the adversary which would have also cut the human race short. Every move will work out to our fathers victory. It’s something that’s hard to wrap your head around but he tells you everything you need to know about him and even leaves you space to question. I’ve even been allowed to astral project under his guidance however this happened after I had a little stint with lucid dreaming then got sleep paralysis.

[@carltonmiller6701]

Wholesome

[@Followerofchrist221]

@@BaggerFood101yeah this is exactly what i needed to see I find it very difficult to know what is truth but also to identify the false doctrine and it pains me to see so many go astray but this was for told

[@DesolatedAbsolution]

As a child, I was obviously curious about religion, but instead of listening to my parents' advice about the difficult questions, I tried to seek them out. Even though it resulted in me seeing things I was not supposed to see, some parts helped me develop independent thinking without blindly following the authority of others,

[@tiagobillar2267]

good! what were your conclusions?

[@LeoH3L1]

30,000 religions all claiming to be the one true religion, they can't all be the one true religion, so if you believe you have a 1 in 30,000 of being right IF any of them are right, which is not likely. Let that sink in.

[@hidaven2006]

“They can’t all be right, but they can all be wrong” - wise man

[@Boricactuz]

Yeah that dosent make sense that’s why God is not religion bro, he’s God he created everything, and is the perfect judge, how come EVERY religion has almost the same commandments, do not murder, do not steal, no pride,no sexual immorality Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Zoroastrianism. They have almost all the same commandments, it means all came from the same source, but yeah Jesus is the way the truth and the life, stay blessed bro and God is real 100% no doubt in my mind.

[@thomandstacieverroad8417]

I was 10 when my parents were "converted" to evanjihadicle christianity and by age 12 I had the con figured out. It took me an additional 3yrs to get kicked out of my family for not "going with the program" . 23yrs later my family finally figured out that the excommunication of me from the family was more ridiculous than my disbelief.

[@annwilliams6438]

That’s hectic! So sorry.

[@thomandstacieverroad8417]

@@annwilliams6438 it's all good. I've had a good life once I got away from the cult.

[@Rickfernello]

One thing that I like to say, is how we have thousands of religions out there, and every single one of them (in some level; not that they claim it) believes that they are the one correct faith, the one "true" religion. And that includes christianism. How could christiniasm claim to be the one true one, when others do too? Is it just a coincidence too? Or is it a common tactic of manipulation to claim this?

[@teiull9388]

heya rick, I think its pretty obvious that it is a scare tactic to demonise others "they don't believe in our truth, they are animals, they are pagans, they are evil" is a line of reasoning most religions poses after all

[@Polyphemus47]

THIS! Realizing this as a college freshman, interacting with people of different faiths for the first time, was the spark that began my deconstruction. Rather than inspiring curiosity about all of the others that claimed 'right'-ness, I scrapped the whole thing. My religion almost instantly became 'chance'. Everything is the way it is, because it can't be any other way. Some molecules form rocks, others form humans. Both have the same value. I don't think about it much anymore (at 75 years old, now), but it's still my core belief.

[@Dryym]

I don't think that entirely applies outside of monotheistic religions. Once you start applying a polytheistic framework, It's pretty easy to accept other religions as being valid and simply just different ways of practicing religion based on different gods. If you come at religion from a pluralist perspective, It's quite easy to blend many together and just accept that many people have different beliefs and to only fight against the ones which harm others.

[@unicronprimus7450]

How could Christianity claim to be the true one, you ask? -Simple. It is the only religion that goes against man's worldly desires and the only religion that even proclaims how illogical it is. It accepts that not everything can be known and has answers for it. Its founder is the one who first reached out for the opportunity for the salvation of souls. Any other else is good works based salvation that its followers are expected to be exactly like their founder. Christianity aims for us to be like Christ but also acknowledges that we cannot do the exact same things and be exactly as pure as He is.

[@anthonycisneros-santos4911]

It's interesting, isn't it? Humans have a profound sense of curiosity and a need to explain the world around them. I guess that's where religions come from. Even as an individual, if you're left in a pitch-black room long enough, you will start hearing and seeing things, because your brain needs an explanation! In ancient times, this behaviour extended to the stars and thunder and what have you. Gods were good ways to make sense of these phenomena. Personnally, I still can't wrap my head around how beautiful some creatures are. Like the orchid mantis. Yes, it's evolution, randomized and adaptive. Still, it feels like Gaia had something to do with it 😐

[@BeautifulGazelle06]

When I was a kid I loved learning about science (I still do haha), but being Christian I always tried to fit God into whatever science I learned and, like a lot of Christians, just denied the parts of science I couldn't fit God into. I genuinely believe if I had continued that interest I would have stayed in the church and maybe even looped back into a career inside it, but what finally started to break my faith was my interest in history and, funnily enough, theology; as I researched other mythologies I began to notice things that just didn't fit my faith, like- how could bible stories have originated from other religions with false gods? How could there BE older religions than Christianity? Why did God only speak to people in this specific part of the Middle East rather than all across the world? I was forced to question my faith and realized many of my answers laid outside of it, and it hurt. The most annoying thing I get told when people learn I'm a former Christian is "Oh, you just left the church because it was easier!" No, it was difficult, I clung to my faith for dear life because it was all I knew and all I was, all my plans for the future had God in them in one way or another and all of them were shattered. I have had many times even recently where I thought about joining a Church again just for the feeling of community it brought me, to abandon all my knowledge for the sake of God's love. Maybe one day I will, maybe I should.

[@joshua.h]

This is 100% true. I wound up leaving religion through a different kind of understanding but had similar struggles. For me it was when I came to an understanding of death as a biological process. I realized how unclear the line between life and death were, and how unrealistic the idea of an afterlife was, and it terrified me and made me want to believe in religion more, but at the end of the day, I just couldn't. Leaving religion is not easy. The reason it's so prolific despite its obvious contradictions is because it's so hard to leave.

[@MrJerichoPumpkin]

anyone telling you "Oh, you just left the church because it was easier" is the one staying in the church because it is easier to let someone think for you, pointing out scapegoats and giving you a pretty convenient way of delaying facing real problems in your life. What I cannot stand in Christianity in particular is the overwelming hipocrisy that is at its roots and pervades the life of most of its followers. Their God is not good. Its evil through and through, and it has always been, that is why in their mythos it prohibites men from eat the Fruit of Knowledge, knowing that they will and then punishes them. He wants a pet to manipulate and toy with, like a little serial killer in the making. Remember, it is omnipotent and omniscient, yet it chooses to do things in a twisted way. "But he is only testing your faith!" is not a valid answer, it's not acceptable from your partner, how can it be an excuse for God?

[@janar734]

Why can't you go to church for the community?

[@Elvalley]

There's also hobbies and fandoms too. You won't even have to miss the raging zealots and the schisms, they have those too!

[@baileycarter5141]

@janar734 Because they would find out that you didn’t believe, and then they’d ostracize and you no longer have a community. At least, that’s what I think.

[@staarrliner4993]

I find it so fascinating how multiple individuals can interpret the exact same information in diverse manners. I’m personally a Christian, but I’m deeply interested at times to listen to and comprehend the reason for some to leave the faith, or to have never believed at all. I see it more in a historical context, the fact that almost vast majority of religions have some rendition of heaven and hell, and I personally believe that extreme tribalism is the bane of our species. I often wonder how other members of our genus would have understood the concept of God, or whether all species of Homo going back to Habilis even had the capacity to believe in God in some form. Your perspective is appreciated, Drew. I wish nothing but the best for you.

[@lourdeszurita9244]

You are so right about tribalism in my opinion. It's the source of so many problems

[@LukeStonePharmD]

My personal journey was much shorter. One day I realized I couldn't believe in Hell. 5 minutes later, I didn't believe any of it anymore.

[@jamesmorgan1967]

I love this comment.

[@Richdragon4]

You are a speedrunner. Efficient.

[@LukeStonePharmD]

@@Richdragon4 once Hell was gone, the rest seemed... trivial.

[@chadkline4268]

Well, you're wrong. Various conditions led to your awareness binding to this body+mind consciousness. As long as those conditions remain, you will bind again, somewhere, someplace. And you cannot choose the destination.

[@welcometoWWW]

@@LukeStonePharmD Problem with eternal suffering? Issiah 55:11 "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." As humans were created in his image, so too do your decisions act in this manner. They do not return void. The Word exists outside of time, being outside of time would imply you can no longer change as time is what allows change to happen. So, when someone is evil and goes to Hell, they truly deserve it and will not change as they are now _fully_ outside of time and have made their decision. Problem with God judging righteously? Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" Humans have anger, this means God has this as well. God's anger is expressed in the manner of "fuck around and find out". He designed the world. Good AND Bad. You have the free will to fuck around and find out and do bad and consequently walk yourself into the lake of fire.

[@chrisc4208]

I wanted to be an ultra devout Catholic. I really did. I put in a lot of time and took it very seriously. But I was also a meteorology major. There were blatant contradictions in Catholicism with observable universe and general science. And I wanted to die because I saw myself as a monstrosity due to being trans. I was finally able to liberate myself from Catholicism with the help of my partner. That gave me the clarity I needed to be able to critically consider Catholicism instead of telling myself “don’t have doubts”. I became happier and I didn’t hate myself anymore. A lot of christian doctrine is exploitative. I don’t necessarily see them as memes but I do seem them as shackles. Critically thinking people, regardless of their motivation but especially good natured people, are set up to be less happy so you can seek out that happiness from god. I truly believe this is why there are still so many abuses in the church even though people have been explicitly aware of them for hundreds of years.

[@chrisc4208]

Not interested in considering gods or deities unless I have a reason to believe I should. I sleep a lot better at night knowing I’m free to be myself and that I’m not under the micromanaging scrutiny of some higher being or principle, and I already don’t sleep very well at night as it is. I’m not a bad person, but religion left me with lasting mental and emotional complexes such as never believing that I am good enough. I don’t need or want that unless there is a factual and pressing reason for me to feel that way. I’m not interested in any existence after I die if I can’t have one alongside my partner anyway. I’m sad that our time together is finite but such literally is life and death. Once I’m gone I won’t even know I’m gone and that’s okay.

[@travis1240]

Thanks for sharing - Yeah the conflicts between science and religion were a big part of the reason I left. Catholicism, ironically, is much more pro-science than the denomination I was a part of. My denomination was basically on the "science is evil" bent. But I enjoyed learning about the world, so I couldn't stay away from it. Needless to say, science won. Anyway at this point I think the only somewhat justifiable reason to believe in Christianity is that it makes you feel good. It doesn't make me feel good. Catholicism (and to a large degree, Christianity in general) is all about guilt, and, as you point out, is abusive in many ways.

[@EssentialNPC]

Hell yeah; we love trans people.

[@chrisc4208]

@@EssentialNPC I appreciate the sentiment, but I urge you- please do not. Transness is not something to be loved or hated. I don’t want to be demonized or praised just for being, I just want to be. There is nothing inherently good or evil about it. Again, I really appreciate the sentiment, but I think we all stand to benefit from critically considering our beliefs

[@EssentialNPC]

@@chrisc4208 I'm just saying that in general, I love people who are unabashed about who they are. I assure you, I am very aware of my own beliefs and why I have them.

[@joejanota707]

I grew up as a Mormon. I can't place my realization onto any one thing. I thought it was just a place where people got together and hung out. The bread and water I thought was because shredded food tastes nicer due to what I now know is distribution across taste buds. I don't think I ever thought any of it was real. I loved the ghost busters. Had the fire house toy and a proton pack. I would imitate episodes and make up new ones. I genuinely thought these people really liked the book of Mormon for the same reason I really liked the ghost busters. As time went on I started thinking some of the stuff they did was predatory. Stuff like tithing, bigoted beliefs and the undying determination that they "knew" it was real. I started to fear them after stuff like that. Stuff that bothered me most was the amount of people that had children with disabilities. I thought it was normal. But the implications become all too clear when you grow up. I was one of those children. They told parents that we would be "cured" in the after life. I think because of my "disabilities" what worked on them didn't work on me. I'm happy with that. To me everyone displayed it as a normal human behavior to imitate their favorite stories. I thought that was how people made friends. You like the same stories. I'm not wrong, but I wasn't exactly right. Be like Spengler, analyze stuff and figure things out. It's cool and fun.

[@yasyasmarangoz3577]

Interesting ❤.

[@WhistleAndSnap]

Hey! Are you autistic too? I've always been able to bond with others really well through a shared love of stories and storytelling.

[@Rudxain]

Are you neuro-divergent? I kinda am too

[@TheDestroyer702]

Just as a disclaimer: I am a devout Christian. I like this analysis because it's not attacking religion very much, but it's criticizing people that fall into cultish behavior. This can be easy to do when practicing any belief system. I have personally had faith building experiences and continue to have them. The issue with these people is they allow someone else to think for them and they often convince themselves some sort of doctrine should not be challenged at all. Then they become complacent in their logic and reasoning, then when any challenging argument or "doctrine" comes their way, they basically emotionally can't handle it and resort to illogical means. That being said, it seems like you did not have faith in the first place. The people are not the doctrine. I'm not criticizing anyone who leaves any faith. I actually believe everyone should go about life the way they see fit, and in my religion everyone that lives well will go to heaven anyway. If you'd like to know more about that, I could answer comments. The point I'm trying to make is that faith is about doctrine and core beliefs. The way some people go about that will not make sense to you. I personally try to understand God in every way I can. I choose to use science and understanding to see how God works. Thought traps are a tool of men, not God. If you believe in God, you don't need other people to have faith. If you don't have faith, that's totally ok! Most people have had experiences that have driven them away from church and nobody should shame them for living life the way they would like to.

[@Alkeeros]

Shame on you for believing you know what's in another person's heart. Shame on you for trying to tell someone "you never had faith in the first place." Faith CAN be simple magical thinking. "I want this to be true so it MUST be true." (E.g. how you outlined it). But faith can also be trust. I trust that God is powerful enough to make his will known, smart enough to build the world so that everyone is led to Him... but the world we live in doesn't require a God to function. Everything seems to operate on natural laws. It's far more likely we live in a world created from random physical properties than one created by a mind. You'd think an all loving God would not have to resort to billions of years of evolution to create people. I'd imagine he could just create life

[@Si1vercherry]

Actually, his faith seems more genuine than most. Faith is inseparable from reason. You MUST have reason to have true faith, which is where Christianity falls short in my eyes.

[@Si1vercherry]

@@AlkeerosI was hoping to see a response like this. You took words right out of my mouth! Edit: typo

[@EiferBrennan]

You people in your stupid cop-out bullshit piss me off. "You didn't really have faith.". Piss off.

[@d4rkblu386]

Really interesting to hear your story, which is shockingly similar to mine, however mine's much less sophisticated. I grew up in a devout mormon family and when i was around 14, I started to realize how calculated the punishment of leaving the church was. Theres a huge emphasis on family, and how they can live eternally together in the kingdom of heaven if they are righteous. By leaving the church, you not only throw away your personal eternal happiness, but you throw away living with your family too. A family member leaving the church is equally if not more heartbreaking and disappointing to your family. For the first time, I realized thats an extremely effective scare tactic hidden quite well in thoroughly detailed church doctorine. From there, i went down the rabbit hole of questioning other parts of doctrine, ultimately looking into Joseph Smith. I quickly learned how good the church is at hiding what a lying, nut job of a con man he was. Shortly after, questioning god's existence as a whole, which in the span of a couple months, turned me from a religious cult believer to a rock solid agnostic atheist. Much happier now, and never turning back.

[@RedoOkay]

I've personally never believed in God, but I've grown up in the Mormon church and still go every Sunday because my parents force me to. They're good people, but they're blind to the evil within that religion. They don't see the mental manipulation, the hate hidden under the preface that it's "gods word", the cult like behavior that's so plainly there. The people in the church are amazing people. They're always so kind, so generous, so welcoming, but they're all brainwashed by the idea that they will one day be with God again. It's unfortunate really.

[@d4rkblu386]

@@RedoOkay Agreed, the people in the Mormon church are not ill-intentioned in any way. I'm convinced essentially everyone in the church genuinely believes what they're saying, including a large majority of high leadership. Most of them are wonderful people who are just brainwashed. Small example, when I was first seriously questioning the church, I asked a couple friends and family some questions about their faith. The answers I got blew my mind. I asked my father, "If someone could physically prove that Joseph Smith was a fraud, with hard evidence, would you leave the church?" and he said, "no, because God's word has proven itself to me". Seeing that really made me open my eyes. Even if the whole foundation of the church as a whole was disproven, he still wouldn't budge. That was when I started to understand how deep this shit is in these people. That they'd throw out the most basic of reasoning to defend it. Pretty wild

[@RedoOkay]

@@d4rkblu386 yup, my parents have made life altering decisions on the basis that "I trust God will make everything okay" like no, he won't. You can't just throw all logic and reasoning out the window because you 'belive' that some higher power will fix it for you. Isn't the whole thing about LDS that you have to work to be accepted by God? And you expect him to fix your problem solely because he loves you, despite the fact that something as simple as same sex marrige denies entry to heaven? No, you don't do that, that's just unintelligent craziness.

[@EmpressOfExile206]

Lmao if you were able to "quickly discover" at 14 years old that your churches founder was a nut job then I would say they *_were not_* good at hiding it 😂

[@d4rkblu386]

@@EmpressOfExile206 well, the Internet exists, and I certainly wouldn't have found anything if I wasn't actively looking for it. The church has clever little excuses for a lot of the main criticisms, and hide a lot of his history. Polygamy for example. The church's official reason is that Mormons for being persecuted and murdered for their beliefs, specifically Mormon men. This left many families with no fathers. So they temporarily allowed men to marry multiple wives so that they could have more children. Likely the real reason is that Joseph was having affairs and covered it up by secretly marrying them all so that it was "ok". There's a deep rabbit hole, I just never thought to look for it. Part of it is they sort of demonize the idea of being a non believer or being someone who heavily questions "truth". They get you with a lot of religious guilt tripping. I'll admit, I had a lot of religious guilt when I started asking questions.

[@desibren6402]

My own deconstruction story shares many similarities, except replace "questioning my friends/family over their involvement in MLMs" with "questioning my friends/family who got into QAnon/conspiracy theories ." Looking back I am just blown away at the religious things I used to believe without reason. Thanks for this video, it sums it up very nicely.

[@Rognvaldi]

Hm? QAnon was a very real thing. Nobody could have accurately leaked the classified information about the Trump admin's movements and projects without having some sort of connection to government. It's fair to say it's not worth believing in that agenda, but it certainly existed. Conspiracies are also very real things- it's why things like the Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred. It's why Operation Seaspray, Operation Northwoods, and Ruby Ridge are all etched into history books. Be careful not to make the mistake of fleeing what you believe to be indoctrination simply to fall for the indoctrination of another group, which in this case, is atheism.

[@DrGoertzDO]

I love this channel and your videos! I have adopted a religion (Sikhism) after a long time of being an atheist, after being raised Christian. Having the background of atheism and the critical questions asked and answered in this channel, I feel I have a secure place to retreat to when I feel that my religious group may be pressuring me to forgo my own intuition. I appreciate that at any time, my own values could diverge from that of my religious group, and I will be atheist again. I'm not afraid of this, as my true faith is in the power of truth to inform a fulfilled life. Thank you for all you do, as you keep reminding me of the questions I care about.

[@serenitynow85]

Didn't know what sikhism is so looked it up. That's one dope ass symbol they have. Looks like some star wars shit (rebels symbol)

[@Frommerman]

Sikhism is a respectable choice. They have a long history of brilliant activism against injustices endemic to India, too, and take that attitude wherever they go.

[@yuukiiiiilover]

I’ve had this really bad feeling ever since I realized I was trans, about a year ago. That in my mind, I was going something wrong in the eyes of God. That feeling’s gone now. I don’t think I believe anymore. Thank you for freeing me. I think i’ve always wanted to be an atheist.

[@PaulRezaei]

I’m a Christian and Drew is one of my fav atheist presenters. He doesn’t stick to straw man arguments and speaks calmly. His thoughts and arguments are things I came up with much earlier in my life so I can relate. My story is similar to his but in the opposite way.

[@PoeLemic]

For me, the transition from a "Real Believer" to a non-believer was very similar. In humor, my transition proceeded down the path of "wanting to know THE TRUTH" and to be more "Christ-like". Because I really, really, really, really believed, and I so wanted to understand Christianity as something more than just a religion. It was so my "way of life".

[@antoniacolon9528]

How does it work in the opposite direction?

[@mort3020]

@@antoniacolon9528 It's easy just reject reality and thought in favor of having a imaginary friend made up from a conglomeration of fables. The cults only look foolish if you think or use your head. Turn that off and your good.

[@TowerArcanaCrow]

​@@mort3020way to act like a cunt my guy. Maybe if you talked to people with differing beliefs like you actually thought of them as people, you would be listened to more But nah You don't wanna be an atheist You wanna be an Edgethiest™️

[@PaulRezaei]

@@antoniacolon9528 it’s similar but in an opposite way because Drew grew up a believer and deconstructed his worldview and turned to atheism. I grew up an atheist and deconstructed my worldview and turned to Christianity. Is that what you’re asking?

[@FornaxusCrucible]

Why, oh WHY must you ALWAYS provide such stellar content? Always so damnably rational and thoughtful.

[@SanchoPeas]

A humble, and humbling, presentation. I’ve been an atheist since the 90s (Irish Protestant upbringing) and certainly guilty of what eventually became the problematic internet culture atheist in the past. While this confirms many of my feelings toward organised religion, you’ve also inspired me to continue to pursue more compassion to my out-group, believers. That said, such reasoned presentation is the way to challenge these systems as that too is key.

[@ManyArmedMooseDei]

As an ex-godist, one quote that tall has stayed with me is this: you cannot look into the face of someone deceasing before their time and still believe there is a god. (This is paraphrased slightly, but the point remains the same.) Nor can you see all the suffering that has been and is in this world, and think such things. For in short, “The truth hurts.” But, there is peace in knowing we don’t know everything, and that is fine. And that though powers beyond us may well be there, in science, there are no true absolutes; nothing has absolute power. Nothing is absolutely perfect. And that’s just fine.

[@OsoUrsa]

Don't typically engage in comments, but when you say ex-godist, is that referring to a very specific belief like you specifically don't believe in a god? Or did you mean Atheist?

[@ManyArmedMooseDei]

@@OsoUrsa technically pagan, but realised the fallacy of the idea that there are absolutes in the universe. There is no one being with all power. Everything has a balance to it, and nothing can ever skew otherwise. For “for every action there is equal and opposite reaction.” There are things we do not know, and that’s fine. There are things we do not yet comprehend, but redundantly named tyrant deity is most certainly no such thing, but rather a mere work of fiction to control people.

[@WildWombats]

I was raised christian but always questioned it early on. But i questioned everything as a kid. Literally everything. I would drive my mother nuts from all the questions i would ask and always wanting to know why to everything. So it didnt take long before i began questioning my own religion. In church I'd constantly stop the pastor and question something. They typically found it in good fun and came up with responses. I remember half the time, i wasnt truly happy with their answers. I specifically remember some responses in fact made me question Christianity even more because it just felt cruel or wrong. The pastor himself was a great guy. No issues with him and he dealt with me which is applaudable in itself as when i was a kid i was a handful. In the end, i found it difficult to believe in such a cruel, callous, evil God. Because that is the Christian God. Selfish, evil, egotistical, literally just created us as his play things for entertainment and/or simply to worship him. That would be like us creating AI robots with consciousness for the sole purpose of workshipping humans. Look how we view those AI robots. As disposable and replaceable and simply our play thing that owes us for it's very existence. I decided that even if God is real, I'd rather go to hell than live with a God who is so capricious he treats his creations as just play things that should worship him and just be grateful he gave them life - that they didnt ask for. And some people get a very short end of the stick in the game of life. They say it all happens for a reason. But imagine youre the most powerful being in the universe, able to create anything or fix anything. Instead, what we see is what we got. God easily could have created a peaceful world with less to no suffering. Instead, we have some people whose entire lives are built on suffering. Animals whose sole role is to make other animals suffer. What kind of God does this?

[@jessewest1333]

I agree with you wholeheartedly especially when it comes to robots. It’s funny how we as humans are always scared of robots becoming sentient and taking over the world, while we want to subdue and rule them. But aren’t we just the same robots desiring to have true freedom from our creator too? Who we know nothing about and all we have to guide us is our programming code? And doesn’t that make us hypocritical as humans? Me personally I think religion is a big hoax and is used as a coping mechanism. One simple example Why is it that we can’t communicate with our creator directly why can we hear, touch, see or feel God. Why would god need humans to speak on his behalf? The same humans who are broken and need God’s help are God’s mouthpieces like that’s the dumbest stuff I’ve ever heard. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and I am glad that your 3rd eye has been opened.

[@nathanm.3474]

God is not selfish nor egotistical. He is selfless and this is best expressed when Jesus Christ came down to earth to die for us and our sins so we can inherit eternal life. He gave his whole life for the service of others. Why would a selfish God die for us or dedicate his life for us? God is not evil. God is good. It is clearly seen every day in our blessings and sufferings which is for good purpose. Jesus Christ experienced suffering, but ultimately was for the good purpose of saving mankind from their sin. Yes millions of innocent babies die around the world. Yes the Holocaust happened but there must be a reason. God works in mysterious ways. Maybe by the grace of God they are meant to come to heaven despite not receiving Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Maybe the Holocaust happened to prevent future Holocausts. Also I'd like to add we live in a fallen world created by Adam and Eve because of their original sin. God DID create a peaceful world with no suffering, but it was ruined by them and their abuse of the gift of free will. Lastly, I just want to say that Jesus Christ loves you and wants you back. God loves you so much. Do not let Satan, the father of lies, entrap you or ensare you, fellow brother/sister in Christ. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Praying for you!

[@nathanm.3474]

Also please let me know if I missed anything

[@danilookovic7971]

God gave us free will.the problem is,if God tried to prevent all the bad things we did,we wouldnt have free will,so as a result,we end up messing up,and some,mess up their own lives.

[@individual1st648]

​@@nathanm.3474 What good God will, given the choice, still not abolish slavery and even make laws around it? In Leviticus 25:44-48 he specifically says the Israelites may buy slaves from other nations and may own then indefinitely, not to mention all the genocides What of the young virgin girls he told the Israelites to take for themselves after they massacre the Midianties in Numbers 31:17-18? But sure, God is good, Eternally Good.

[@_shadow_1]

The best way to prevent falling to cognitive traps is to just simply consider everyone's argument and never make up your mind if you don't have to. If someone urges you to make up your mind, they are wrong for doing that, even if they are right.

[@welcometoWWW]

Christianity the only ideology that says "Fuck around and find out". Think I'll hedge my bets there.

[@Celsiusing]

@@welcometoWWW Wait, it's the only "ideology" you've seen do that? You haven't seen certain Muslims, those with conspiracies, or other smaller religions or cults who all claim that everyone else is obviously lying/ignorant to the truth and that you should shape your life around their ideas, or else?! Lucky.

[@panzerswineflu]

We all missed the mothership so we're all stuck here in hell through a seemingly upcoming nuclear apocalypse

[@lued123]

@@welcometoWWW You're essentially describing Pascal's Wager here. The problems are numerous and fairly obvious: First, Christianity is ABSOLUTELY NOT the only religion with a supposed horrible punishment for not believing in it. As a thought experiment, I could just make up a religion with an infinitely worse punishment (ie. superhell) for non-believers, and an infinitely better reward (ie. superheaven) for believers, then argue that everyone should convert to that. After all, my religion has infinitely more at stake. Second, even if Christianity were the only religion with an infinite punishment for non-believers, that wouldn't make it any more convincing. It's an incentive to believe, not a reason. Third, if you're choosing to believe in God "just in case", that's not an authentic belief, and an omniscient god would obviously see through that.

[@welcometoWWW]

@@lued123 It's the only religion that tells you to choose it freely. Love your neighbor even if they disagree with you down to the core of your being. It's crazy how emotions are completely lost on the logic types. I understand though I used to be there. You have to actually read the Bible and not be lazy parroting talking points you heard from a youtuber. This is completely antithetical to the idea of control- and moreover it highlights a paradox which- I believe God IS the paradox- so this just gives me more confirmation on what I see. Christianity is the least militant- especially in this day and age where they have been watered down to "love is love". LGBTQ+ is more militant in their views going so far as to fire you from your job and cut your means of living. It is a basic truth that _every_ ideology and or thought is fighting for control in your brain- to get into that headspace of thought. So, with this being said, Christianity, while being like every other "controlling" ideology, does not spread in the same manner of control of brute force (socially or physically). Dummies will point to the crusades. Geniuses will look at the everyday interactions between normal people of all backgrounds and surmise from there. History is written by the victors, and often for this reason they are usually not the best to trust as victory throughout all of human history has proved to come at a shady cost time and time again. So, to reiterate, since people often cherry pick and like to avoid the meat of my truth- ALL ideologies fight for control. Out of the entire sea of thought, when you observe people and the thoughts that reside within said people, you will find Christians to be on average the least "controlling" on their viewpoint. Thusly, the paradox. An ideology that by all means should act like any other desperately clawing for thought space- and yet it's people couldn't give any less of a fuck to share it in as passionate a way as LGBTQ would. You would do well to think about normal people interactions and not the clips you see on KZbin for this one.

[@existentialTreat6]

Who knew I'd get such a critical analysis of how memes have shaped society from the birth of civilization to modern day

[@Iloveliz1495]

I been deceived by these “stories” for 37 years. I’ve realized I been fueled by fear by my own ignorance. I now see the truth and the best thing a person can do is keep asking questions. Seek and you will find. Some really good stories in there, some with really nice teachings. But don’t let it rule your life. Absolutely nothing wrong with free thinking. Don’t stop feeding your brain. Be your own evolution and do mankind a true favor by growing your intellect and then sharing it.

[@FirstLast-vr7es]

I had a similar thing happen. It started with a 'job' at a life insurance company many years ago. Most of the men working there were preachers on the side, and we had a devotional (mini church service) in the office every Monday morning. Their sales tactics were...dishonest though. Cold calls, lying about having 'received your information' etc. That was very off-putting to me. They wore that 'preacher' badge with pride though, and used it to gain the trust of their prospective customers. Then I started to see the Ten Commandments proudly displayed at used car dealerships. Again, using religion to gain the trust of customers. Using God to make money seemed disgusting to me. That's the point that it broke for me. It was obvious that many of the so-called 'church authorities' treated religion as a grift to manipulate. Many even to make money. So if they're doing that, what does that say about the origins of said religion? Look at the history of the church (any church) after that, and it all makes a lot more sense. Same can be said of some peoples' atheism, frankly. "Hard core, militant adherence to a set of beliefs, justified by whatever. And anyone that doesn't believe is beneath you." Sound familiar? It should. My 'belief' is that I can't know what I can't know, and I immediately suspect anyone that claims to have all the answers, especially when it is necessary that I believe what they do as well.

[@jambononi]

Yeah very good sales people are often very attentive at church because it's literally the same thing. Preaching is selling. Which is not the same as convincing either. Selling is influencing someone to do a specific action towards a goal that was set out by the sales person. Whereas convincing is promoting an idea on it's own merits. You'll notice religious people don't convince. They sell.

[@Bonniethebunny]

My parents were loose about religion with me and my sibling so we were never fully programmed to follow it. It has resulted in more flexible thoughts as well as a better acceptance of others' beliefs. Honestly i'm happier this way than i would've been if i would have been raised fully religiously. I thank my parents greatly for not pushing it on us too much.

[@sethstewart9704]

Extremely well-explained. I myself was always agnotsic. I think divinity could exist, but it's ridiculous to think that humans can explain it. Like a Skyrim character explaining the GPU that renders them. Despit this, my mother was raised Jehovah's witness. Even though she left the faith due to my abusive grandmother, my mom still had her values shaped by it. Extreme things like speaking about demons invites them into your life, etc. Her morality was shaped by it, and then instilled into me. Again, I was never faithful to any religion, but ended up with a complex pretty identical to Christian guilt. These thought viruses are powerful. Even today, though deprogrammed through love, I still catch myself with reasoning that has some of those memes tangled in there. It is a life-long process.

[@totaldan99]

Im in this right now, I didnt have a job for the longest time because I thought that jehovah would take care of me, then covid happened and I realized Id be truly fucked after I turned 18. My parent have leadership roles in the religion tho. I have next to no savings but I hope Ill be able to salvage the rest of my 20s if life is kind to me when I move out in the far future

[@joshuamoody7729]

My mother wanted me to be a believer in Jesus, but for whatever reason I never felt this presence that everybody else was feeling. It was like nobody was there. I personally believe in the possibly of something divine myself, yet I don’t think it’s wise to assume we’re right. After all, we are humans.

[@trellified]

The Skyrim reference is an outstanding analogy.

[@spaceburrito215]

More people need to share their deconstruction stories. This one was powerful.

[@ginaplopper-norton8839]

For me it was the discovery of how doctrine had changed over time. That was the first step towards deconstruction for me

[@ginaplopper-norton8839]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 lol no

[@DanielSilva-gc4xz]

The doctrine of each denomination indeed changes. But the gospel and the bible doesn't.

[@tiagobillar2267]

do share! I would love to know which specific doctrines have changed and how they affect the central message :)

[@lawsofminecraft6303]

Ex-Mormon. What ultimately broke me away from organized religion was the concept of eternal punishment. I decided that I could never follow any god that would allow people to suffer eternally for a temporary action. I have had multiple spiritual experiences, and I am not an atheist, but every time I have been open, my experiences have led me away from organized religion. Now I believe that faith itself is powerful, and think I might know a few things about why we are actually here. However, I am mostly ignorant, and willing to admit that. I don't have the firm answers that I used to believe it, but I am happier with who I am and how I relate to God/The Universe.

[@Volkbrecht]

The only problem with your approach is Pascal's wager. If they are right, you are fucked ;)

[@coltonk.3086]

Hell isn't necessarily eternal punishment for a temporary action. God basically said "Well, if you don't want to follow me, that's fine, but I have to send you to the one place where I am not." Which, is hell. But God doesn't want us to eternally suffer, which is why we have Jesus.

[@slynt_]

@@Volkbrecht Pascal's Wager is a bad argument, for a lot of reasons. I'll give just one of them. It only takes into account the *Christian* virtues and ideas of salvation vs. damnation. Why shouldn't it be just as likely that "Satanism" is true? (Let's stipulate, for the sake of argument, that "Satanism" is the exact inverse of the Christian idea, so now every sin is a virtue, and vice versa.) In that case, the exact behaviour that, in the Christianity-is-true possible world, would send a Christian to paradise, would instead, in the Satanism-is-true possible world, damn him to eternal hellfire. And if there is no a priori or empirical reason to think that the truth of Christianity is more probable than that of Satanism, then they cancel each other out. It isn't necessary, but you can take the argument further - think about every possible religion that might exist. There are literally infinitely many possible religions, and it could be that none are true, or it could be that one of the ones that has never been invented (or "discovered") is the one true religion. Pascal's calculus can't possibly take any of this into account. In effect, the core of the problem is that Christianity is the only religion that Pascal thinks could be true - if Christianity isn't true, then no religion is true, assumes Pascal. But privileging Christianity in that way is question-begging and goes against the spirit of natural theology (the practice of giving arguments for God's existence that don't assume any religious foundations).

[@Volkbrecht]

@@slynt_ Ok, I only wanted to fire off a silly little joke, but since you took it serious, I may as well be reasonable: As I have learned from Jordan Peterson, the validity of ideas can be measured by how well they enable you to act them out repeatedly and to your own benefit. When you invert the Christian ruleset (assuming that this is indeed what Satanism would be, I'm ignorant about that one) you will find yourself at odds with the people around you pretty fast. And even if you assume that you could somehow turn society around to agree with that switch in values, you would find it unsustainable as well, because a society like that would have a much lower standard of living, and a much higher personal risk for being violated, enslaved or killed. Because such a society would run on a violence-based hierarchy instead of rewarding competence. So no to that first proposition. And with regard to the rest of religions: There aren't really that many, and the big ones, where they don't rely on the same rulebook, at least are mostly not exclusive. A good Buddhist or Sikh is not by default a sinner in Christianity. The only notable difference here is Islam, but that's because not being a Muslim is the biggest sin you can commit there (I'm exaggerating, but you probably get my point). Once you get to the actual rules of life, it's not so much different from the others. So you could translate Pascal's wager into a more uni-religious standpoint, because most other religions do have a form of punishment for sins, or karmic justice, or whatever. Apart from joke religions (like the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster) most religions are there for a reason, meaning, they have at some point in time actually been conducive to the survival and well-being of the practicioners. Pascal may not have understood this, so his "wager" needs to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt. But the general concept is sound: stick to the established set of values, because if you don't, you may find yourself in a bad place.

[@slynt_]

@@Volkbrecht I don't actually disagree with most of that. But you're talking about purely pragmatic considerations. I'm only talking about the literal truth of religion. I could pretend to believe in a religion for social reasons, sure, but what I really care about is whether any religion is true or not. (And sorry for taking you too literally - I am a diagnosed autist, with a philosophy degree, so that's probably why I'm a little too eager to jump into random debates.) You'd probably be very interested in the American pragmatist philosopher William James, especially his book The Varieties of Religious Experience, if you haven't read it already. Pragmatism is not my cup of tea but your perspective on religion is quite similar to his.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

For seven years I fasted and prayed and read the Bible begging God to reveal Himself to me. No response. I guess I'm on my own. A 75 year old atheist.

[@welcometoWWW]

You aren't the only soul who wants to see God here. Think about Cain and Abel and how God only shown favor to Abel. Do not be jealous of what others have. God spreads his love equally for everyone. If you are meant to see God in the way your ego wishes it to be, then it will be so. If not, it is simply not meant for you to see. For me, simply seeing the _affects_ God has on the world through people is enough for me to see his Truth. I don't need more than that. If my soul desired for more, it would be purely motivated by ego, because I already have proof, why do I need more? To serve my ego? Such is not the way of harmony in creation as we know it.

[@kylewalles8593]

@@welcometoWWWhey uhh which god? Greek gods? We talking Zeus? Or mayan gods? Hmm maybe Thor? Can u clarify please 🤗

[@welcometoWWW]

@@kylewalles8593 The God of the Abrahamic religions. I thought that would be obvious when I mentioned Cain and Abel.

[@deaththekid3998]

@@welcometoWWW this sounds exactly like a thought trap, designed to prevent people from questioning. Like, have you even watched this video? 😂

[@SolidSiren]

People who don't "have God revealed to them", don't understand what God is or where to look. It's all around you. It's within you. I'm sorry those whose job it is to guide you to this realization failed so badly. God had revealed itself to you thousands of times. Every day you wake up and take a breath, see with your eyes, watch a bee fly from flower to flower...God was right in front of you.