The Reason for God (Tim Keller Talks at Google response)

@Oswlek 11 ай бұрын

*"That there is no way to dosprove a god is a failure of the god claim, not the skeptic of the claim. The god claim has no falsification criteria. With no falsification criteria, the default position is to doubt until the claim is positively verified."* Perfectly stated, thank you.

@normkeller2405 11 ай бұрын

I have seldom heard a Theist even attempt to argue honestly. Presuming existence, presuming usages for "the Bible", for "God", and misrepresenting others' definitions appear to be virtually universal.

@alflyle9955 11 ай бұрын

Thanks. I was going to make the same point. Keller asserts this blatant failure in logic at 9:40 into the video, thereby proving yet again that apologists lie and lie and lie. As far as my experience goes, I have never heard an honest apologist. In fact, to me "honest apologist" is an oxymoron.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@Phoennix3 11 ай бұрын

@@alflyle9955 feel free to use my catchphrase: All apologists are liars.

@alflyle9955 11 ай бұрын

@@Phoennix3 OK

@donaldnumbskull9745 11 ай бұрын

Immediately before I watched this video, I watched one called 'Twenty Logical Fallacies'. Tim Keller has perfectly demonstrated at least ten of them here.

@futurecrunk 11 ай бұрын

I haven't even watched this video yet, but I came to the comments immediately just to see. Interesting that you made this observation. I read Keller's book "the reason for God" a few years back, and i was struck with the absolute brazeness of some of his claims that left me convinced he was either knowingly deceiving his audience or extremely delusional He wrote: "I began to take courses in the other major religions of the world - Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Confucianism, and Judaism. I have profited to this day from those studies. However, my explorations in other faiths proved me wrong on this particular point about the centrality of a loving God. I found no other religious text outside of the bible that said that God created the world out of love and delight." Now my initial question is, "what verse or verses is he referring to in the Bible?" Secondly, I began to play out the possible scenarios for how an influential and educated religious leader like himself could possibly claim to have such a thorough knowledge of every other religious text outside the Bible?!?! Anyway... I'm not surprised to read of your observations. Definitely confirms mine.

@lesediamondamane 11 ай бұрын

It seems when trying to defend a belief in a God, you run into fallacies sooner than later.

@AnnoyingNewsletters 11 ай бұрын

@@lesediamondamane or to paraphrase Aron-Ra: _every argument for religion is a fallacy and every fallacy has been used as an argument for religion._

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@charliemallonee2792 11 ай бұрын

@@futurecrunk Especially stupid because Judaism has literally the same origin story.

@Shventastic 11 ай бұрын

Tim made his mark selling faux intellectualism to Calvinists and taught them how to stealthily appear progressive while advocating for the opposite. A compassionate-sounding anti-lgbtq advocate is still an anti-lgbtq advocate.

@rembrandt972ify 11 ай бұрын

The fact that he was a bigoted goon has little bearing on the fact that he was full of shit.

@RHatcherMD 11 ай бұрын

Paul was raised Christian, and it is hard for anyone to fully shake off how they were raised - not uncommon at all, for ex Christian atheist youtubers to have blind spots over certain aspects of apologia, and soft-ball certain arguments or apologists.

@spitfire184 11 ай бұрын

Amen!

@ob2249 11 ай бұрын

@@RHatcherMD PauI Iet him speak and using his 0wn w0rds he came acr0ss as a "gr0wn up" with an imaginary friend ie n0 credibiIity at aII y0u d0nt need t0 d0 much just Iet them speak and they wiII exp0se themseIves as infants wh0 need an invisibIe man

@TremendousSax 10 ай бұрын

@@RHatcherMDwhy are you talking about Paul when the comment was about Tim?

@81caspen 11 ай бұрын

In the final analysis, Tim relied on little more than Pascal’s Wager. “Grab the branch,” he says. “Worst case scenario, maybe you didn’t need to, but if you did need to, you’ll be so glad you did!” Except it’s not the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is my fear keeps me paralyzed up there, clinging to that branch till I die, when a whole life of love and adventure - and pain, and difficulty - and meaning - had once lain ahead of me on the ground below.

@Isaac-hm6ih 11 ай бұрын

I disagree, the WORST scenario is a different god sending you to THEIR hell.

@marknieuweboer8099 11 ай бұрын

I disagree with both of you - in the end being send to Hell or Heaven doesn't make difference. It's equally bad. Returning to nothingness is what I prefer.

@Isaac-hm6ih 11 ай бұрын

@marknieuweboer8099 Surely most heavens are less bad than their corresponding hell, for most people? I see the argument that annihilation is preferable to a heaven (I'm undecided whether I agree with it), but we're only considering the very worst scenario.

@marknieuweboer8099 11 ай бұрын

@ Isaac: perhaps, but not for me.

@Isaac-hm6ih 11 ай бұрын

@marknieuweboer8099 You consider infinite torture no worse than eternal life in a better version of the world? I don't understand that view, and am curious as to how you reach it. There are pretty horrifying heavens out there, and eternal existence is arguably horrific in its own right, but surely an eternity of horror for you is likely worse than one intended to be good for you. I know I'd prefer eternal boredom to eternal suffering, if those were somehow my options. Sure, they're both eternally bad, but isn't there a difference between them still?

@lordsrednuas 11 ай бұрын

wow, Tim's talk was really unconvincing... but at least he wasn't insisting everyone secretly agrees with him

@SilortheBlade 11 ай бұрын

He did make the claim that everyone doesn't come to their belief or lack there of intellectually, but emotionally. That is flat out incorrect. Some people do, but plenty don't. I would argue that most don't.

@charliemallonee2792 11 ай бұрын

Oh Tim Keller. I had a pastor send me his book The Reason for God. Complete and utter nonsense the whole book through. He pretended to be sympathetic, but consistently misrepresents the atheist objections, uses fallacious reasoning, and just flat out lies about the Bible, the data, and reasoning.

@Daniel-mw7pu 11 ай бұрын

There’s a really good study done by Christian Smith on the beliefs of American Christians and they found that overwhelmingly, they tend to view God as a type of “genie” who exists to only help us when we are in trouble, which is exactly what Tim Keller uses as a hypothetical reason for why someone would believe in God. However this idea of God being a genie is almost unanimously condemned by biblical scholars across the theological spectrum.

@dougt7580 11 ай бұрын

That's a great, and I think very accurate, analogy. Ive personally used the analogy that most believers treat god as a "wish-granting vending machine" , albeit one that's faulty. Put a couple prayers or ablutions in, dial up your selection, and hope your desired choice pops out.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@TheMahayanist 11 ай бұрын

Moralistic therapeutic deism, as they call it. Even though God has no direct connection with morality at all, and making God into some kind of drug to make you feel better about life is kind of disgusting.

@Justin_Beaver564 11 ай бұрын

For someone like me who's travelled and interacted with other nationalities I've always noticed something very different about American style Christianity.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

@@Justin_Beaver564 Christians can easily be identified, only if they follow / obey the teachings of Christ and His disciples. If they do not obey Christ, then they simply arent Christians, no matter what they say they believe or say. Its what they do that counts. Most people who identify as christians, simply arent!

@TheAntiburglar 11 ай бұрын

I would actually like to see more of Dr Keller's talks. I understand that this talk was somewhat dated, but I found his arguments to be deceptive sleight of hand rather than actual argument. I'm curious to see if that changed over time, and your presentations are always spectacular in both content and, given the recent passing of the subject, tone. You're very respectful while not shying away from hard questions. Keep up the excellent work :D

@DerrickMims 11 ай бұрын

I read his book “The Reason for God“, which is one of the books that is most commonly recommended as a top tier apologetics book. I didn’t find anything in it that wasn’t in all the other apologetics books. At least the Frank Turek “I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist“ book had some interesting things to say in the first chapter or two before falling into the same patterns as every other apologetics book. But this one didn’t.

@dianasofia5075 10 ай бұрын

Speaking of ravens and empathy: Once a crow on our street noticed a cat that was about to attack a pigeon. So, it started squawking in order to warn the pigeon of the danger. The pigeon got scared and flew away. And yet we still associate crows with evil and death.

@surfacetension 11 ай бұрын

I would love to discuss with this guy (RIP), because my atheism is life-long. I was raised secular. When I was a kid, the stories seemed silly, and I couldn't believe people took them seriously. As I got older, and, being outside of that world, compared Christian beliefs to other mythologies, I didn't see any differences other than the way those mythological ideas were expressed. Now I'm at the point where I would love to ask some Christians just how the blood magic in their religion (i.e. "I've been saved by the blood of Jesus") actually works. I suspect the speaker would have had difficulty answering my ideas and questions.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@riolufistofmight 11 ай бұрын

I feel similarly, even though I was raised Jewish, but deconverted before my teens. I've never gotten a good answer to "How does the incantation that Yaweh used to breath life into dirt humans differ from the incantation odin used to breath life into tree humans"

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

@@riolufistofmight - If you continue to obey Gods Commandments, and keep faith in the blood sacrifice of Messiah, then no doubt you will eventually learn directly from the Creator - exactly how He is able to do such things. But Science cannot tell you how or why things live or die - a perfectly healthy 21yr old man can die of heart failure, but despite our advanced technology, they cannot always revive him, and being placed in a Coma with artificial ventilation is not the same as being Conscious and alive. Nor can anyone explain how to obtain a usable form of Cytosine for DNA, unless it comes from an intelligent living being, so the fake god Science of Abiogenesis is purely a deluded faith based belief. Nor has anyone on earth ever witnessed evolutionism, nor has evidence of transitionals, nor has evidence of the DNA of the mythical 'common ancestor', yet it does not stop literally millions of atheist's hold such beliefs to be true by pure faith alone.

@johndemeritt3460 11 ай бұрын

First, talking to Dr. Keller may be a bit difficult, but a Ouija Board is as reliable a method as any other I've heard. The difference is that we know that Ouija is a game -- it says so on the label! As for being " . . .saved by the blood of Jesus", riolufistofmight might have some different insights, having been raised in a Jewish household. My wife, to whom I've been married nearly 40 years, is Jewish, and we agree with the assessment that the idea of one person atoning for another's sins is utterly preposterous: this is why the period between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur is known as "The Days of Awe". It is an opportunity for Jews to get with whoever they've wronged over the last year and try to make things right (if they haven't already) before The Book of Life is sealed for another year. And God won't forgive you any sin you've committed against another unless you've done everything you can to make things right with the one you've wronged. That's why murder is one of the absolutely unforgivable sins. But beyond that, the idea of HUMAN sacrifice is totally abhorrent to Jews. So the idea of some Jesus guy taking on the sins of all people -- past, present, and future -- and sacrificing himself to atone for all those sins is absolutely ABSURD

@Bill_Garthright 11 ай бұрын

My atheism is life-long, too. I was raised Christian. Everyone I knew was Christian, throughout my childhood (which was long, long ago, and Christianity was just the default in America back then). But I don't remember ever believing it. Now, I'm no expert on any of this. Paul does a lot better job than I could with this. And yet, even I could point out the problems with Keller's claims. It's always amazing to me how even the _experts_ have nothing that an ordinary skeptical person couldn't easily refute. At least, that's how it seems to me. Have they never even _met_ an atheist? I'm always just _astonished_ at how bad their arguments really are. As I say, I'm no one special, but I don't think I'd have a problem pointing out the errors in his talk. (When you get to specific Bible quotes, that might be different. I've never really cared much what the Bible says.) I suspect that all religious apologists everywhere are far too accustomed to just preaching to the choir. As long as they say what the choir wants to hear, that's all they need.

@trentlytle7289 11 ай бұрын

I read Tim's book of the same title. The reason for god is just the moral argument.

@pash_4904 11 ай бұрын

My mother gave me a book by this guy a few months ago in one of her attempts to save me. On the first page he makes a framing error trying to "both sides the argument" I couldn't get past that. I would LOVE a series on this guy's talks.

@duckmcluck6911 11 ай бұрын

Is your mom a cool person? Also,have a nice day!

@pash_4904 8 ай бұрын

@@duckmcluck6911 unfortunately she is not :(

@DanTheMeek 11 ай бұрын

His justifications for belief are super interesting to me, because, now closing in on a half decade of non-belief after believing in christianity for 3 decades, I'm finding time and time again that the vast majority of christians who are willing to talk with me about why they believe, express reasons that boil down to what he's listing, yet I haven't actually met a single former christian whose decoversion story matches his reasons. For example, the fact my parents, family, friends, and community as a whole all believed was easily the most impactful factor in why I believed back when I believed. Though for me it wasn't about wanting to be part of a group (which seems to be the single most common reason people I talk to believe) it was, as some on indoctrinated, why it took me so long to question. Conversely, I knew ZERO people who didn't believe when I deconverted, I stopped believing not not because of community, but inspite losing the community I had. This feels very much like Tim Keller projecting... and I kind of like that. It suggests to me he recognized why most christians, perhaps including himself, believed, that the reasons were not on the basis of the evidence actually suggesting it was true, and thus assumed this was why anyone believed anything related to religion, including the reason for non-belief. While he might have been demonstrably incorrect about why some one like me came to not believe, he did give us an interesting window into why people who became or remain christians believed or continue to believe. Kind of refreshing in this age, 15 years later, when it seems like most apologists seem to want to argue there are actually "good" reasons to believe... even while admitting that isn't why they came to believe.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@caiqueportolira 11 ай бұрын

I believed only after actually studying the historical evidence... no one close to me was Christian and I was an atheist until age 23. Yes most people are sheep but the whole thing isn't that simple, the sheep may go this way right now, but in a few years the trends will change. What's most important is thinking critically, and actually reading and studying a wide range of informations and opinions on the subject.

@gabrielchaparro2559 11 ай бұрын

i was raised roman catholic ( though my family was not devout) I looked at what was being told to me and what i was being preached to and used my critical thinking to look deeper. i found so many hypocrisies and contradiction and straight up lies that the church was spewing. I didnt leave the faith because i needed a group. this was in the 90s and was a teen and i knew zero people who were atheist, nor did i even know the term atheist (my family didnt have internet till the mid 2000s and even then i was not looking up religious stuff i was focused on video games). But i used my own logic and senses to realize that i am an atheist/ agnostic ( i dont believe god exist till i see poof then i will believe, but i sure dont believe in any of earths religions). religion especially organized religion is declining and will eventually die off. As more and more people are using their critical thinking skills. Side note if you watch Veritasium's video about lead in gas you will understand why our grandparents and parent were so easily brain washed and turned into sheep and while the younger generations are able to think more critically about life in general. This is one of the many factors as to why religion is shrinking and more youth are become non-religious.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

@@gabrielchaparro2559 - Religion isnt shrinking, its changing from Theism to Atheism - the specific BELIEF that there is no God. Why? Because atheists have no idea of who or what God is. The Bible declares that God is a SPRIT from a SPIRITUAL realm, that exists outside of our knowable spacetime limitations, and therefore is not subject to the Natyral Laws that He placed upon the Unuverse. Hiwecer He reveals Himself and His nature to us by way of Vusiins given to certain men who are called prophets. Those prophets record those visions which reveal the future of mankind before it occurs, and is proof that God is SUPERNATURAL, not subject to Natural Laws lije CAUSALITY. In fact God revealed to His prophets a future vision of mankind who have abandoned His Moral Laws to become Atheists - whom He refers to as UNBELIEVERS. The description that He gave, resembles humans today. The warning is that due to the increase in IMMORALITY, and unbeluef, that He will cause the resulting hatred, distrust, and intolerance between humans, to bring about a Global Nuclear War, that will annihilate most of humanuty and life on earth, except for a few who He calls the ELECT, who listen to His warnings, and make preparations according to the instructions recorded in scripture. Today we stand at the threshold of Nyclear Armageddon, and the religious cult of Atheism who ignores everything that God says, will be the first to suffer His Fire Judgement.

@radscorpion8 10 ай бұрын

@@caiqueportolira But isn't it rather obvious certain things like the global flood depicted in the old testament "higher than the tallest mountain" never occurred because there is no geological evidence for such an event? The science is overwhelming on that point. So believing based on historical evidence seems silly when such a large part of the bible seems like it was totally made up. I wouldn't know what to trust, what is true and what is not. The bible also makes prophecies about how the Nile river in Egypt will dry up and how all these devastating plagues will befall the country...yet nothing like that ever happened. Its written somewhere in Isaiah 12 if I recall correctly, and another place as well. The bible seems riddled with mistakes or claims about things that never happened, not to mention total absurdities like Noah's Ark or when a town was raised from the dead in leviticus or a lady turned into a pillar of salt. Do you seriously still take the bible as a credible document after reading these things or are you just selectively ignoring them?

@Oswlek 11 ай бұрын

Tim, we know dealers can cheat, we know their motivations for doing so and we have precise understanding of the probabilities at play. We have none of these for universe formation. What a profoundly silly comparison. 😂🤣

@raysalmon6566 11 ай бұрын

Jesus is the evidence of God

@ev3560 11 ай бұрын

@@raysalmon6566You wanna back up that claim?

@sigmalefty393 11 ай бұрын

I grew up in Tim’s church. From what I remember of him as a person (our families were somewhat close), he was an genuinely incredibly well read and well spoken man. While I am now an athiest, I’m glad that if I had to have grown up in any church, that it was Tims. He taught me a lot, and ultimately was important in partially giving me the tools to question many ideologies, including the very faith that he was a proponent of.

@Paulogia 11 ай бұрын

Nice

@albertkim7882 11 ай бұрын

Tim was instrumental for me in both becoming more Reformed and leaving the faith.

@Cajek2 11 ай бұрын

*ANYONE* who says there's no morality without the bible *NEEDS TO TAKE AN INTRO TO PHILOSOPHY CLASS*

@pureflix8086 11 ай бұрын

[We] dont even need to do _that_ to realize the bible is a bad source for morality. Or at least a contradictory one...

@Cajek2 11 ай бұрын

@@pureflix8086 Indubitably, but I'm making the point that the bible isn't a source of morality at all. When this guy says "there are human rights for no reason except the bible" it's ignoring thousands of years of secular, human thought

@pureflix8086 11 ай бұрын

@@Cajek2 i know, and i agree with you! Edit: wow, holy shirt... he said that sh.t _out loud?_ The fact that the people who werent included to have rights(and in some cases still arent) getting upset, rising up and claiming their rights didnt occur to this guy?🤦🏾‍♂️

@Cajek2 11 ай бұрын

@@pureflix8086 That whole religion needs to be scrapped XD

@matthewgagnon9426 11 ай бұрын

Or just take a look at communal animals. Rats value saving trapped rats over hoarding all the food to themselves most of the time, certain species of monkeys have a sense of fairness where if you make two of them do the same task and give one a slice of cucumber and then one a grape the one who was perfectly fine with getting cucumbers before will suddenly become upset about it if you give them a cucumber after a different monkey got a grape for the same task.

@Chrismas815 11 ай бұрын

Viced Rhino made a solid argument against the Christian God

@Chrismas815 11 ай бұрын

I don't think he's a gnostic atheist, but he made the jump to the positive claim against the God of Christianity for a video, and I think he did a solid job.

@rainbowkrampus 11 ай бұрын

Yeah, Bible god is a modified Caananite god that gradually morphed into the various Abrahamic gods we know today. It is and always was pure fiction. Christians like to conflate their god with a general god concept and then go, "Ha! You're being irrational for not buying into my dishonest framework." It's very tedious.

@sangwaraumo 11 ай бұрын

Which God of Christianity? Sadly, there are almost as many as Christians.

@rudylikestowatch 11 ай бұрын

@@Chrismas815 Which video? Link or title?

@thomasridley8675 11 ай бұрын

It's always "My God is real" and all of the other options are the delusion. The history of faith shows that Gods only exist in the minds of the believers.

@bethanymatthews7936 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for this, "Reason for God" gave me a swift kick towards leaving the faith, particularly the statements about it takes as much faith to believe in science as it does to believe in God, and that we should have to read all the texts on Christianity before discounting it. I'm a scientist and I take issue with that. We actually have evidence and repeatable experiments, God doesn't. Plus, I'm sure Tim read ALL the other texts on other religions before discounting them🙄

@dougt7580 11 ай бұрын

As an engineer, the statement "it takes as much faith to believe in science as it does god" has me pounding my head against the wall because it requires profound ignorance and dishonesty to believe that. It is also an insult and a mockery of the hard-fought and hard-won knowledge of our species and efforts of millions of human beings that have contributed to scientific endeavors.

@charliemallonee2792 11 ай бұрын

⁠⁠@@dougt7580As engineers we are supposed to test everything that goes into a product. “Trust, but verify” as they say.

@juanausensi499 11 ай бұрын

That apologist's claim is not only asinine, but also innecessarily confrontational. There is no dichotomy between science or religion, until religion start to make claims about reality not supported by evidence. But the fact is the majority of the world is both religious and not antiscientific.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@trybunt 11 ай бұрын

Personally I find arguments like that misunderstand science, and epistemology. Sure, it's plausible that some researchers are biased, doing poor research, making conclusions for bad reasons, but the goal is to falsify ideas and accept the least wrong idea as the most likely, rather than trying to prove an idea correct by searching for evidence. We hope that the people doing science on any particular subject are using methods that would convince a majority of experts in the field, so we accept that any scientific consensus could always be wrong but is most likely correct. That's very different to accepting a religious claim. There is some degree of confidence, which people sometimes call faith, but I don't think its the same thing. I have faith my favourite football player will perform well, but even that is different to having faith in religious beliefs because I don't declare that it's true my football player will absolutely perform well. All im trying to say is that I think a lot of this conversation gets lost in translation. People want to say faith in science is like religion, but just about everyone is willing to let go of any scientific belief the moment evidence suggests it's wrong. We actively seek to prove these beliefs wrong, because we want to know if we are wrong. We aren't perfect, we have biases, but the goal is to find the truth

@dlandon2000 11 ай бұрын

It's so disappointing that apologetics have always been so bad. The claims almost never change, the fallacies get constantly regurgitated.

@Krikenemp18 11 ай бұрын

Yeah if Paul hadn't prefaced this video I would have thought he was responding to something that came out yesterday.

@Uryvichk 11 ай бұрын

It's worse than you think. Go back and read the Apologies of Justin Martyr from the second century. This stuff is 2000+ years old and the arguments are basically the same.

@KarlWinterling 11 ай бұрын

In the late 2000s, there was an expectation that people born after 1980 would return to both mainline and evangelical churches, with evangelicals dominating as the largest religious group that might eventually become the majority of the country. Large numbers of people didn't return to churches they were raised in over the past 15 years, though.

@pansepot1490 11 ай бұрын

Thank god for that! ;)

@Thundawich 11 ай бұрын

The problem with the 'god might just know more than you' defence against the problem of evil is that it applies to literally EVERY moral situation ever.

@chriswest8389 11 ай бұрын

Not falsafiable .convenient. shifting the burden of proof in the process. Weasels.

@njhoepner 11 ай бұрын

Worse than that (as Genetically Modified Skeptic pointed out eight months ago) - if we can't judge whether the evil we see is really evil because we don't have the god's-eye view, then we also can't judge whether the good we see is really good, for the same reason. In fact believers have no way of knowing if their god is purely good, just kind of good, or purely evil...their god could fool them with ease.

@Thundawich 11 ай бұрын

@@njhoepner I don't think you understand what 'every' means xD

@whittfamily1 10 ай бұрын

And it is equivalent to an argument from ignorance or mystery. The theist claims "God would know what we don't know and what he would know would support my position." But the atheist might respond "Even if God did exist, what he would know and we don't know would support my position." One ignorance cancels out the other.

@angelmendez-rivera351 5 ай бұрын

I mean, the bigger problem with the 'God might just know more than you' is that it simply amounts to an admission that God is not all-powerful, or God is not all-loving. If God prioritizes something else, such that in this prioritization, God knows how to justify allowing suffering, then this means love has a lower priority to God, so God is not all-loving. If God is all-loving and all-knowing, and is required to allow suffering for the "greater good," then God is not all-powerful. Therefore, any such objection by the apologist, far from being a defense against the Problem of Evil, only misses the point of the argument, and accidentally affirms the intended conclusion.

@_Niddy_ 11 ай бұрын

You missed the opportunity to edit in Turek's "HEY MAN, THIS MAKES SENSE"

@merbst 11 ай бұрын

I've had a hobby of studying Chinese culture, including having several pen-pals in China who I chat with nightly. From talking to a random sampling of people from every province of China, skewing towards the more urban & young folks, I could believe that an honest pollster could come to the conclusion that China has more "Christians" than North America! However, this is because Chinese people see themselves as very open to spiritual experimentation! I have a friend who went to a church service once or twice in their 40 years, on the reasoning that an evangelist told them they needed to accept Christ to be saved, so they tried it out, accepted Christ to get it out of the way with, just in case it was important, then went home to pray to their ancestors (Chinese folk religion) to tell them about it. They will never attend church again, but they like having the experience as a conversation starter! The Over the next year they tried out Shinto, finding it to also provide a useful conversation starter. When they meet an American, they are happy to share that they too are a Christian, as their English teacher had suggested! Wheh I remark, "so are most Americans, but not me!" they change the subject! Not all Chinese Christians are quite so casual as this, because I have another friend who lives in Shanghai who mentioned that be was a Catholic in response to hearing that I attended Catholic school. In the course of the conversation I gathered that he attends Catholic Mass more often than I do, which was a grand total of 2 times in the 24 years since graduating high school, once with an ex-girlfriend and once with my now deceased mom. No discussion about East Asian Christianity is complete without mentioning the Taiping Rebellion of 1840s-1860s, where an American Missionary to Southeast China started a cult, led by a Chinese Man who claimed to 2nd-Coming Of Christ that gained the following of 20,000,000 people in the Taiping Region before proclaiming itself an independent theocratic state, in an act of secession. When the Ming Dynasty sent armies & diplomats to negotiate, they were all either converted to worship the Governor or killed. Over the next two decades, a raging civil war caused the deaths of around 80 million people. This (and several other situations much like it) has informed the cultural memory of China towards Christianity, in addition to the views in the region in Vietnam (where the law forbids possession of tracts or pamphlets endorsing any religion), Thailand, Cambodia, Japan, & Mongolia. All of these nations have experienced tragedies due to a failure of handling an infestation of missionaries at some point of time in recent history.

@riseofdarkleela 11 ай бұрын

Very useful TIL!

@MountandBladeLARP 11 ай бұрын

I`m sorry but it was the Qing Dynasty that was in power during the Taiping Rebellion, not the Ming; Ming dynasty ended in the 1640s. Just wanted to quickly correct that.

@TheMahayanist 11 ай бұрын

Japan and China both don't have this "exclusivistic" assumption that many Western religionists have. If they're religious at all, then they're more likely than not to mix religions than have any one specific religion.

@ReynoldsGarrett 11 ай бұрын

6:35 when he explains the sociology of knowing, it almost applies to me but not really. My best friend and I, about ten years ago, were both independently questioning our faith. He came to me to talk about how he has been doubting the existence of god, which I also was at the time. At this point, we were both technically agnostic atheists rather than agnostic Christians. We were there to support each other, but we didn’t influence one another’s views.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@the_disc32 11 ай бұрын

Im not sure why I expected better than "it takes just as much faith..."

@whittfamily1 10 ай бұрын

I know why. Science does not require or implement faith. Religion wouldn't exist without it.

@andrewphilos 11 ай бұрын

Re: the discussion on probability, he's falling for the classic "lottery paradox." Yes, it is extraordinarily unlikely for one person to win the lottery. But when you sum up the probability of ALL of the lottery tickets, the probability of ANY of the tickets winning is now 100%. In the same way, yes, it is extraordinarily unlikely for a world to exist where a dealer randomly deals themselves a hand with all four aces 20 times in a row. But with enough iterations, eventually, yes, that exact thing would happen. (It's just that the probability of enough iterations happening in our universe is incredibly low.)

@Oswlek 11 ай бұрын

What are the odds I would take a shower this morning? Ho hum. What are the odds that the last thousand years of human history would lead to me setting foot in that shower at that moment and have those specific water droplets cascade over me for that exact amount of time? Astronomically unlikely! It must have been by design! 😱🙄 Any event, no matter how banal, can be "perspectived" into extraordinary improbability.

@vaiyt 11 ай бұрын

There's also a false dilemma at play. When you deal a hand in poker, you will always deal A hand, the options are not the perfect hand or literally nothing.

@tylergains6137 11 ай бұрын

Yeah are universe wasn’t lottery, that’s just way it happened so it had a 100% chance of happening.

@Soapy-chan_old 11 ай бұрын

@@vaiyt yeah every single combination has the same probability, provided the cards were mixed. If they weren't mixed, you have a chance of almost 100% to guess the right card(s) when you see where they were drawn out. So basically when the conditions are right, some things are inevitable.

@SilortheBlade 11 ай бұрын

He also doesn't add that the odds of the 20 hands that are dealt in a row are exactly the same as 20 hands with 4 aces. Every combination has horrible odds, but it has to be one of those combinations.

@bigdaddygoon828 11 ай бұрын

If somebody tells me they have a guy that's going to give me $1000000 I shouldn't believe that person until the guy gives me the millions

@pureflix8086 11 ай бұрын

Are you saying that the representative from the american embassy in Africa is _lying_ to me?! Well, i wont share these millions with you, after i wire him $2500 for administrative fees!

@bigdaddygoon828 11 ай бұрын

@@pureflix8086 😂😂😂😂

@philswaim392 11 ай бұрын

"If you dont believe in god then you need to figure out how to live with us" Like... dude. Youre the majority. You need to learn to live with US

@onedaya_martian1238 11 ай бұрын

That sounds like a threat rather than an invitation to a "better" world view. Eww.

@philswaim392 11 ай бұрын

@@onedaya_martian1238 oppressors do view the people they oppress as a threat when the oppressed speak up.

@SilortheBlade 11 ай бұрын

The hypocrisy from this guy is overwhelming.

@charliegriffin2867 11 ай бұрын

Honestly, I would love to see more content covering his talks

@AnnoyingNewsletters 11 ай бұрын

Same. I'm not familiar with the guy, but Paul's thorough, almost line by line debunking of his claims was refreshing. Please make a series on him. Maybe drop a fresh one every month or so instead of having to focus on him nonstop for any duration of time.

@jeanne-marie8196 11 ай бұрын

I often wish I had Paul’s knowledge and “gift-of-gab”, in religious discussions.

@thunderbird3694 11 ай бұрын

Tim Keller @4:26: "if you don't believe in god, you need to try to understand why anybody does or we're not going to be able to work together in a pluralistic society" Tim got this absolutely backward! The atheist DOES understand why people believe in god(s) and it is the "religious who need to try to understand why people believe in god(s)" They could start by reading "Why We Believe in God(s)" - J. Anderson Thomson

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@BornOnThursday 11 ай бұрын

The discussion on rights/preferences is interesting because it touches on what we want as well as how we get it as well as how we prioritize all those wants, because when you take something like (government) laws, they (obviously) don't stop the behaviors from being possible, they simply tell us what possible, human lead outcome (might) follow. We tried to avoid natural consequences (which are out of our control) in favor of human ones - though we're working in it and it needs to see a lot of change to succeed at it's bigger goal.

@marknieuweboer8099 11 ай бұрын

"... a ... test which could potentialli logically contradict ..." There is such a test. It consists of three parts. 1. Is god a coherent concept? 2. Is there a reliable method to say anything meaningful about gods? 3. Does the god concept add anything to our knowledge and understanding? I've put the god concept proposed by many believers put to this test. I've thought about the three questions myself and answered all of them with no. In 10, 12 years of internet no single believer has been able to justify even one single answer "yes". Conclusion: there are no gods (the same for elves, souls, ghosts and all other supernatural, immaterial entities).

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@Phoennix3 11 ай бұрын

They all fail at point one…. I like the follow up questions too.

@marknieuweboer8099 11 ай бұрын

@ Delaware: prophecies are natural, gods are supposed to be supernatural. You category error illustrates my three points and especially point 1.

@njhoepner 11 ай бұрын

Well, for point one it depends on which god...for Christianity the answer is no, and for Judaism as well, although I think the Qu'ran at least stays coherent from beginning to end. All beliefs in deities fall at point 2. Point 3 depends on what one is talking about - we gain understandings of cultures from how they conceive of their god/gods, for example. Where I think they all fail is at the point of asking for evidence for one god that would not also be evidence for any other - and since nearly all religions (aside from Unitarian Universalists) make exclusive claims, that's it for all of them. All any of them have is some form of personal preference.

@Phoennix3 11 ай бұрын

@@njhoepner I think we need to define coherence. I take the view that believing in a big beard in the sky, making finger guns to ‘pew pew!’ things in to existing, is about as incoherent as you can get…. Essentially this means ALL creator gods. The idea of such a thing is laughable. I struggle to think I used to believe exactly that. Truth is, until I really started thinking about it, I just accepted it.

@Browniethehamster139 11 ай бұрын

I haven't watched the video yet. When I was a Christian, I loved listening to Tim Keller. I hadn't heard that he had passed, I'm very sorry for his family. I have to admit I'm a little nervous to watch the rest of this video being on the other side of the table now.

@dlee112 11 ай бұрын

I understand. Me too

@Isaac-hm6ih 11 ай бұрын

He seems fairly reasonable by apologist standards.

@Loki- 11 ай бұрын

Great video, as always @Paulogia

@Marconius6 11 ай бұрын

Regarding the "takes just as much faith" part: The supernatural is impossible to prove, or to disprove, so in that sense either way is equal. BUT I would argue it takes far more faith to believe something exists than to just dismiss the claim; Occam's razor and all. Although if you're talking specifically about Christianity being true or not, you can disprove that just with the Problem of Evil, or a dozen other contradictions and inconsistencies.

@marknieuweboer8099 11 ай бұрын

It is possible to disprove the supernatural. I described underneath how.

@Soapy-chan_old 11 ай бұрын

It takes litterally no faith to dismiss these claims.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@letefte 11 ай бұрын

Turning an intellectual forum into a church. As if I didn’t have enough reasons to despise Google.

@caiqueportolira 11 ай бұрын

They're not religious at all, just so you know.

@letefte 11 ай бұрын

@@caiqueportolira I don't get it. Who isn't religious exactly?

@caiqueportolira 11 ай бұрын

@@letefte the employees at Google in general

@whittfamily1 10 ай бұрын

I think you are making a category error. Speaking about religious ideas is not equivalent to having church. Not even close in this case.

@letefte 10 ай бұрын

@@whittfamily1 Considering that in this case Tim Keller is preaching to an audience, I feel justified in calling it a church.

@Beacon80 11 ай бұрын

I've always hated this argument. It doesn't take faith to admit you don't know. His branch analogy actually shows the flaw with this take, if you drill down into it. Let's say we have three people. Person A is confident that the branch can support his weight, Person B is unsure, and Person C is confident the branch _can't_ take his weight. So, in this scenario, we have three responses: A will just grab the branch and will not look for any alternatives. B will look for a better alternative for as long as he can, then grab the branch if he can't find any. C will not grab the branch and will always look for alternatives. We have four scenarios, built on two axes: Can the branch support the weight, and are there any alternatives. Let's look at the results: 1) Strong branch plus alternatives. A grabs the branch and survives. B and C both find an alternative and survive. 2) Strong branch plus no alternatives. A grabs the branch and survives. C fails to find an alternative and dies. B fails to find an alternative, grabs the branch, and survives. 3) Weak branch plus alternatives. A grabs the branch and dies. B and C both find an alternative and survive. 4) Weak branch plus no alternatives. A and B grab the branch and die. C fails to find an alternative and dies. B survives in every scenario except 4, where there was no possible way to survive. So the conclusion is that it's better to make as few assumptions as possible. You can muddy the scenarios up a bit more, for example, if there is no time to look for alternatives before grabbing the branch, but B's survival rate will always be better than A's.

@filipe.sm31 11 ай бұрын

But B in this analogy wouldn't just be an atheist who converted in the deathbed?

@Beacon80 11 ай бұрын

@@filipe.sm31 You could in theory use this to reach Pascal's Wager, but I'd argue that, in the end, this actually highlights a deeper flaw with the analogy: the person falling _knows_ the branch exists. It may or may not be strong enough to support him, but it clearly looks strong enough that it _might_ be able to support him. God doesn't have that. If we want to make the analogy fit at that level, you don't see a branch, but you've been told that there's an invisible branch that can support your weight, despite nothing in your experience suggesting that invisible branches can exist, and the person has never actually witnessed this invisible branch himself.

@filipe.sm31 11 ай бұрын

@Beacon80 makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

@randolphphillips3104 11 ай бұрын

So basically shift the burden of proof and then saying "gawd gets credit for everything, prove me wrong!"

@xipheonj 11 ай бұрын

This just made me depressed. The first half of the video was really great, it gave me hope that we finally found an apologist that understands how logic and arguments work and understands atheism enough to represent it accurately in his objections. Nope, just the same pathetic apologetics at the tier of Frank Turek and Jay Warner Wallace. He doesn't have enough faith to be atheist, and I no longer have enough faith to belief that humanity has a future without religion.

@cuzned1375 11 ай бұрын

At least he’s not as pompous and condescending as Turek. But yeah he’s spouting the same nonsense, just less annoyingly.

@delawarecop 11 ай бұрын

Actually there is criteria for the existence of a Supernatural Intelligence, the evidence is contained in prophecy, that makes claims about the future before it come to pass in time. According to current Scientific reasoning, such things are impossible because it would violate CAUSALITY according to the Einsteinian view, as currently supported by 99.9% of Scientists wrt the fixed Speed of Light. So when a prophet of 2500 years ago, accurately describes modern day ICBM's with a Nuclear Payload, describes the dimensions, shape, flight path, firing mechanism, destructive capacity, and ensuing radiation sickness if the coming Global Nuclear War - then this become evidence of the Super Natural, because knowing such things 2500 years in advance is impossible according to the Scientific Laws of the Natural Universe. This then implies that the source of this information given to this ancient prophet is also from outside the Natural Universe, and also Intelligent to be able to show this prophet and communicate in his native language. If you are interested in TRUTH, then I would suggest that you take the time to do a yt search on 'Nuclear War Prophecy HIDDEN in the Bible for 2,500 years' and watch the presentation done by youtuber TiborasaurusRex. Then of course feel free to disprove this prophets claim that God gave him this information, because God cannot exist according to your reasoning. I would also appreciate if you can use Science to offer an alternative explanation for the information provided in this 2500 year old prophecy, that nobody on earth could have known prior to 70 years ago!

@rageforthemachine 3 ай бұрын

I read the Reason For God a few years back. The biggest problem I had with it was a lot of Keller's answers were of the type that they just seemed to invite more questions, but the issue was dropped. It typified a certain kind of apologetic where far from being geared toward skeptics wanting good answers, it was written towards Christians who just wanted "an answer".

@uncleanunicorn4571 11 ай бұрын

Sure, I can blindly commit myself to secret mermaids hiding themselves in all the world's oceans, there are many things that could be explained by mermaids, does it take a leap of faith to reject fairies, mermaids, and leprechauns?

@MarkLeBay 5 ай бұрын

17:40 The universe is so exquisitely fine tuned that it’s existence can only be explained by something even more exquisitely fine tuned.

@user-cs6yi7sx1r 11 ай бұрын

The Muslim growth in Africa is very real and true. It's like trading a bad religion for an even worth one. And it's terrifying!

@fmlunchbox 11 ай бұрын

I'm always interested in your reviews, so yes. A whole series of videos on this guy would be even better.

@TerenceClark 11 ай бұрын

Wow. I don't think I've ever seen someone misunderstand the anthropic principle so badly. I'm actually rather impressed by this guy on balance, so I'm hesitant to call him out. On so many subjects he gets it right where other apologists get it wrong. But on the anthropic principle he missed the whole point by miles.

@Blackmark52 11 ай бұрын

It seems to me that Keller substitutes god for intellectual honesty.

@jaclo3112 11 ай бұрын

He's a christian apologist. It's his job to be dishonest and indulge in logical fallacies as he has no evidence or logic to support his god claims.

@howardhutton6806 11 ай бұрын

It’s not just intellectual honesty I mean the difference between intellectual honesty and morality is functionally near zero. Without one the other is near impossible.

@idio-syncrasy 11 ай бұрын

As always. Great content. Thank you. 👍💚😎

@Iamtheskidoostig 11 ай бұрын

Now I know there's a joke in that elephant analogy...."and the last blind man says, "I don't know about you guys, but my part reminds me of my highschool wrestling coach."

@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video :)

@mackymintle7806 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for making this one!

@SL-fd5fp 10 ай бұрын

Would be interested to see your take on a Scott Hahn talk. I used to adore his Bible studies (on vhs) and apologetics. He lectures at a Catholic University and is held in high regard in Catholic circles. I'd be interested to see the arguments countered.

@joriswood7917 11 ай бұрын

Good one Paul. Thanks.

@rudylikestowatch 11 ай бұрын

A new video for my favourites list. So many arguments knocked down to reference again later.

@riaagarwal6840 11 ай бұрын

You are a champ. Thank you

@xpressomd8762 11 ай бұрын

Very good.

@johnferrandino4666 11 ай бұрын

Excellent video

@tomsenior7405 11 ай бұрын

Tim Keller. Never heard of him. Listening to his arguments for god makes me grateful for this fact.

@rcnfo1197 11 ай бұрын

LOL 😅😅 Well said. His talk was a polished turd. Full of fallacies. If I were in the audience I would have walked out in disgust. What was Google thinking?

@Soapy-chan_old 11 ай бұрын

@@rcnfo1197 If I were in the audience I would have laughed so hard they'd probably throw me out

@tomsenior7405 11 ай бұрын

@@rcnfo1197 Judging by Keller's "Number One Fan" at the start, I don't believe that Google think.

@tomsenior7405 11 ай бұрын

@@Soapy-chan_old I would be right with you. Are there any Pubs near Google?

@Soapy-chan_old 11 ай бұрын

@@tomsenior7405 i dont understand

@Marniwheeler 11 ай бұрын

Great video. Thanks.

@nathanjasper512 11 ай бұрын

I love that argument of 5 blind men in a room feeling an elephant. Ok... How do they know it's an elephant? Maybe there is no elephant and all five of them are feeling something different? And for the analogy to really work they arent really feeling the elephant are they? No, they're seeing the elephant in their mind and looking at coincidences in their life and attributing it to the epehant. Maybe some peanuts disapeared..... oh it must be the elephant.

@charliemallonee2792 11 ай бұрын

If the elephant wanted to be known by all, all it needs to do is trumpet. Everyone could hear and perceive it and know it is an elephant and not a snake/tree/statue.

@karlu8553 11 ай бұрын

Yes would love to see more Paulogia analysis of tim keller's talks at google on this channel

@kingalexandersgodshapedhol7514 11 ай бұрын

Sure please do more

@ascalon132 11 ай бұрын

This is the OG Paulogia that i came to love 👍

@Hailfire08 11 ай бұрын

I liked this one; I feel like Tim actually respects people who disagree with him (unlike a great many apologists) and tries to not fall into the same logical traps the Frank Tureks don't care to avoid because they know they're preaching to the choir.

@sarahgreen238 11 ай бұрын

After I deconstructed I started using "dirty" or "low" for someone's actions I didn't like instead of "wrong"

@tandme2342 7 ай бұрын

The reason for god is quite simple to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions

@Killer_Tortoise 11 ай бұрын

When religious people do something evil in the name of God, you can find the justification in their holy books. However, when an atheist person does something evil, firstly, he doesn't do it in the of atheism, and secondly, you won't find a justification for it in any atheist writing. So, definitely not a tie.

@frederickagerbo1220 11 ай бұрын

I definetly want to see more, pls do a series on him, he is good at making seemingly intellectual sounding noises out of the normal old tired aguments.

@AtheismActually 11 ай бұрын

Brilliant video. Especially the takedown of the poker game scenario.

@scotterickson6497 11 ай бұрын

Thank you Paul. You bring such good insights to these videos.

@chrisfriel2003 10 ай бұрын

This is a strong video, well done.

@joanfregapane8683 11 ай бұрын

Very interesting video. Tim seems like a nice guy, so I am saddened by his passing.

@glebealyth 11 ай бұрын

Tim Keller is a real expert. His expertise is in the Gish Gallop.

@vaiyt 11 ай бұрын

The word if is doing a whole lot of legwork here

@relentlessskeptic22 11 ай бұрын

This was really good. Consider this a vote in favor of a series

@BobLeach_DarkWolf 11 ай бұрын

Just getting started.

@jennifer97363 11 ай бұрын

Paul, I would love a series giving us your take on Tim Keller Talks at Google! I really appreciate your clarity of these issues.

@Silenttalker22 11 ай бұрын

When he said we get together as a legislature and decide we'd rather have human rights; it's like dude... you're so close.

@moodyrick8503 11 ай бұрын

*You sir, truly deserve million & millions of subs & views.* _So easily cutting through the flawed reasoning of believers, "like a hot knife through butter"._ Keep on "fighting the good fight".

@Paulogia 11 ай бұрын

thank you

@LF-pe9ok 11 ай бұрын

It’s such a leap of faith to claim that unicorns aren’t real. 🤫

@Paulogia 11 ай бұрын

ha

@gregcampwriter 11 ай бұрын

Rather than saying that we created rights, it makes more sense to say that if I'm minding my own business, others have to explain why they are justified as meddling. I don't have any obligation to justify my own choices.