The Remarkable Math of Mantra | Poornamadah | Isha Upanishad

An unassuming mantra from the Upanishads seems to describe a certain remarkable truth about "infinity" which is known today in Mathematics (excerpt from classes on Isha Upanishad held on 23 Aug). #upanishads #mantra #infinity
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[@Jijnasu]

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[@rajashreesharma4067]

It feels more like a mother who gives birth to a baby, both being complete beings individually and the mother continues to remain complete.

[@ratan012]

Very nicely explained. Was so impressed that I just ordered your book - Inquiry. You are amazing. Gratitude and Pranams . Shiv Shambho. Hare Krishna

[@madrasman8883]

Saints in the realm of spirituality teach their students about non-dual, holistic nature of Atman and Brahman and every one interprets things according to their Vasanas 😊. Ishavasya Upanishad is about Isha - the spirit enveloped as physics.

[@VenkatPanchadi]

Correct

[@1959dilip]

Dada, I am grateful to you for explanating this mantra of the Upanishads

[@kanavsagyal3468]

Such a complex concept in such a easy manner. Thankyou

[@harismind]

I am sorry, but "Purnam" in this context, does NOT mean "full". It is a gross misinterpretation that misses the essence of this most beautiful Mantra that at once captures the Atman-Brahman congruence and hints at a deeper meaning as to the sole character of Brahman as the Infinite Nothingness (Shunyata). Purnam, in this Mantra, refers to Completeness. In essence, it says that Brahman is as equal and Complete in the Infinitesimal as it is in the Infinite. That is, mathematically it refers to an entity when subtracted from itself still remains Complete and untouched as before: x-x=x. The solution to this is of course x=0 (0-0=0). However, mathematicians have trouble if you replace x with Infinity on the left hand side of the equation and would just say that Infinity - Infinity is indeterminate! But, when you consider infinities of different scales it is not wrong to say Infinity - Infinity = Infinity. So, the solution for the equation suggested by the Mantra (x-x=x), Is both Zero and Infinity, ie Infinite Nothingness, which is the true essence of Brahman. There is much more to talk on this subject, but I am stopping here since it's not something one can discuss in a KZbin comment box :)

[@Jijnasu]

Full, whole, complete - doesn't make any difference to what was said in this video. 0 will be another trivial solution where you can interchange adah and idam. But mantra doesn't suggest such mutuality. I didn't refer to any A-word and B-word. I don't want to assert words just because someone used them. "A for Apple, B for Ball" is more experientially meaningful than simply asserting such picked up words.

[@harismind]

@@Jijnasu I recognize that the word "full" is much more often ascribed in the translations of this mantra. "Complete" is also a valid meaning of the Sanskrit "Poorna". But using "full' in this context is misleading since, it begs the question: "Full of what?" "Full" on its own makes the mantra itself incomplete. Also fullness does not mean Infinity at all. That's an enormous leap you are making. A bottle can be full of water that doesn't mean the bottle can hold an infinite amount of water. I think, the first stanza hints at the fractality of the universe in that at it is as Complete (and similar) at minutest scales as it is at the Cosmic ones. It is perhaps equivalent to the Hermetic phrase, "As above, so below." The second stanza is the most interesting which is clearly mathematical and corresponds to the equation x-x=x. This where the apparent dualities of 0 and infinity come in as solutions to this equation.

[@Jijnasu]

The main point of the video is that only idam can come out of adah, and adaha cannot from idam. And 0 does not satisfy that condition. Only infinity does. And therefore Purna becomes a representative of infinity. What is the best english translation was not the concern. One can argue that fullness is also a valid choice, but this is not my focus here. Once we see that there are two kinds of infinities (quanta and continuum), a lot of things open up, and that was explored further in the sessions.

[@gurudatt2931]

This is our problem. He was trying to convey the mathematical aspect of this mantra. That is commendable. Instad of appreciating it, we try to pull down such an effort for the use of a word (BTW, I don;t think he was wrong to use the world Full). Reminds me of the infamous crab analogy. The words have limitations. I don't see Completeness not much different from full. I agree the infinity will be more apt here. We all know, sanskrit has another word for infinite - Anant. Of course, if someone gets so pedagogical, they can interpret even Anant as endless rather than infinite. So, let us not get hung up by the words as long as it does it give a totally different meaning. As you said, this comment section is not a place for debate . I would add: it is not a place for scholarly criticism either.

[@nirajnb]

Interesting and thank you for sharing your analysis. The mantra is typically recited when a Jivatma departs the body after death. Jivatma (this) is nothing but the same eternal continuous Atman (that) quantized for this body and this duration. After death, it just loses the quantized/discrete form. Like all infinite continuous real numbers between two natural numbers. Does this make sense to corelate the Math and philosophy?

[@Jijnasu]

I must say this is the first sensible comment/question that this video received. Yes. We presently experience ourselves like a discrete entity, but we cannot deny that there is also an infinitely smooth flow to us, and that continuum aspect is also vaguely in our experience now. Physically dying is one thing, but here the main purpose was to point out that it is possible to recognise the continuum underneath our apparent individuality more and more vividly, and thereby explore the possibility of diffusing the individual right away into that continuum. This was discussed further in the later parts of the session.

[@nirajnb]

@@Jijnasu yes, completely agree. there is a continuously infinite and smooth (never discrete) flow that can be experienced within the broad discrete events of birth and death. And same can be probably experienced beyond these events. If the observation can be slowed down or elongated, then the smoother and continuous flow might be experienced.

[@meenaUUY]

Maybe you could take a look at Banach-Tarski paradox. This shloka exactly reproduces that concept. 😊

[@Jijnasu]

Thanks. Will check it out.

[@gauri172]

I don't think this is too complicated. A mother is complete. A child who comes from her is complete and grows up to become complete without affecting the completeness of the mother. This is applicable to seeds that grow into plants, water bodies that form from other water sources. there is a river that has tributaries and eventually there is a lake. all are complete without any taking away the completeness of other.

[@vrindarao16]

Sorry! This Shloka is not a mathematical statement. It is a philosophical statement. Poorna doesn’t mean infinite. It means TOTALITY. Totality of existence. Being infinite is the nature of Totality. It is about existence and consciousness. Mathematics is just a concept or idea.😢

[@kulkarniankur]

Thank you for saying this.

[@KingHari010]

You have to grow up to know It has mathematical relevance also. Mathematics also is the religion of science 👍

[@vrindarao16]

@@KingHari010 Please please help me grow up. Tell me how.

[@KingHari010]

@@vrindarao16 mathamatical symbol of zero has two names in sanskrit "poornaankam" and "soonyaankam". And the definition and logic for calling it poornaakam will lead you to this mantram.

[@vrindarao16]

@@KingHari010 what is the definition and logic?

[@mrhellaboy]

Does anybody in this comment giving guys know what does Sanskrit word "Mlecha" mean?

[@ptcnchandran5567]

Is the concept of Brahman more close to zero (poojyam) than infenity.

[@krishnammagaru]

I think its even simpler? Poornamada (This is full - Infinite) , Pooramidham (That is full - infinite) Poornath Poornamudhacyate( This comes from that. ) Infinite - infinite = infinite . Still , the explanation is awesome :)

[@geetharania3871]

Please connect it to philosophy

[@vasu.srisailam3638]

Western philosophers questioned this sloka as they always see everything in measurement. It is such a pity that hindus unknownly trying to convince them in one way or another. That sloka referred to consciousness. A simple example is when little water is drawn out from the sea, then the sea contains water and the drawn water is also water. When consciousness appears to be something different, it is also consciousness.

[@Jijnasu]

Sir, are you telling this from direct experience? Or heard from somewhere and repeating?

[@shivamumbai1]

It reminds properties of a black hole, or stillness.

[@kulkarniankur]

This seems like a forced and accidental connection that is being drawn between cardinal infinities and the upanishadic mantra. There are hints of mathematics in the upanishads, but this not where they are to be found.

[@Jijnasu]

In objective sciences, math usually happens first, and then physics of it comes to light. But it doesn't mean that the reverse cannot happen. A yogi may exclaim something out of his direct experience of reality (without intending any math), and the math of it may come to light later. That's all the video tries to do. And this may look forced to KZbin audience. But it's not their fault because the entire session is not uploaded. Many more things fall into place because of this math, and the more it is explored, the less accidental the connection will look.

[@Yoga.sarthi]

Waah

[@ivanballeram6112]

But this property is also of zero.0+0=0,0-0=0,etc.

[@Jijnasu]

0 would be a trivial solution. The video is about finding a non-trivial solution.

[@ptcnchandran5567]

Zero in sanscrit is called poojyam meaning something to be worshipped, isn't it brahmam represented as sun, hence represented by O.

[@Jijnasu]

It is called Poojyam in Tamil, not Samskrita.

[@ptcnchandran5567]

Infinity has existence where as zero...... Does the argument that bhraham is more comparable to zero than infinity. Sorry I may sound misinformed.

[@KishoriKhirwadkar]

​@@Jijnasu also in marathi we call 0 poojya.

[@SubhashJoshi-f9e]

Is this incomplete ... The last part... experience part of "this" and "that" seems to be missing. Also can u post a commentary of Gayathri mantra whenever time permits

[@Jijnasu]

Namaste, this is an excerpt from Isha Upanishad sessions, and full sessions are available only to students who had registered. A few more clips will be uploaded in the coming days.

[@Anil-e9p]

It is not arithmetic words,

[@srinivaskanekal6093]

From CONSCIOUSNESS ( PURUSH or SHIVA) came ENERGY ( SHAKTHI or PARVATHI) From ENERGY ( SHAKTHI) came PRAKRUTHI or MANIFESTATION ( MATTER which include entire universe , living and non living with varied shapes, colours etc) Apply Einstein law of Energy and matter where energy can be transferred into matter and matter into energy. Reverse the above process All manifestations can be transformed into Energy and further into Consciousness. Hence the perceiver and the perceived , the experiencer and the experienced all beings and everything thing is nothing but Brahman the pure Consciousness. So we are all that one divine Consciousness but appear differently. This is Illusion. This is the Crux of Vedantha.

[@amishshilpi3668]

Natural numbers are 1 to infinity; Whole numbers are from 0 to infinity!

[@Jijnasu]

Natural Numbers are defined both ways. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_number

[@srinivasankadambi5039]

Very nice. But speaker is not at all giving eye contact. Such teachers are neverr impressive. Imagine your class teacher in your school days is like this gentleman it was totally borin how much important the content of the subject. . This comment is purely for speaker's improvement. Definitely not discouraging him. In courts also your case may be strong but your pleader 's presentation is poor means you are bound toloose..

[@Jijnasu]

This is from an online zoom session, and I am looking at the zoom-meeting camera where all the students watch me. The recording camera is different.

[@rajeshwarsinghbhadwal4079]

Is it poorn or PoornA (As you are prononcing) . Why we Keep adding A at the end and keep corrupting the actual pronounciation. In UK AND US no one pronounce or write Tom as Toma or Robert as Roberta. Think

[@Jijnasu]

It is Hindi pronunciation that is corrupt and it keeps removing the ending "a" which is there in Samskrita words. 'Yoga', 'Rama', 'Poorna' etc are all अ-kara anta words (not आ), which become 'Yogah', 'Ramah', 'Poornam' etc when vibhakti is applied. Samskrita is read as it is written. So why should पूर्ण be read as Poorn? It is Poorna. Poorn would be written as पूर्ण् .

[@TheDoc4kids]

Please look up any Sanskrit grammar book. As far as the word Rama is concerned, it is अकारान्तः पुँल्लिङ्गः राम शब्दः, which means the word Rama must end with a and not with m. This is just one example, there are thousands of them. The North Indian pronunciation got corrupted by the invader language influences.

[@eswarjosyula8891]

Interesting! Here are a few thoughts. - Without proofs, much of it remains meaningless. With proofs, of course, comes the question of validity of proof. Why should anyone accept without an acceptable proof? - The knock on Upanishad commentaries was neither warranted nor useful, except to show pride and arrogance, not to mention ignorance - Continuum and quantized appears to be the punchline but its use in describing any phenomena still very much within the physical realm. I just hope your math goals align with your life goals. Don’t answer yet but give your life goals some more thought. With best.

[@JohnSmith-iq9np]

please go back and do your math classes correctly.........even if you have failed it is ok, everything is learning :)

[@eswarjosyula8891]

@@JohnSmith-iq9np 🙏